Swatis or Pukhtoons didn’t migrate from India. They were there even before Pakistan came to existance, so your theory and logic does not apply on them in principle.

If Ik is confused as per your judgment, I think you are not only confused but wrong in understanding the whole issue. When we say there is foreign element involved that means it is not limited to only create a law and order situation but has even bigger ambitions to create a civil war situation in Pakistan so that our enemy have a plain field when he attacks Pakistan. Chances of civil war become eminent when we start killing each other on ethnic and regional bases. An army operation like we have started is a fuel to that beginning which will end like any civil war. You seem so confidant about this operation, give us one example of any army operation which though caused 3 million IDP people, yet brought a long lasting peace or saved a nation from braking up.

i disagree with ik on the lal masjid issue too as i believe that the writ of the nation was really important what i dont back is that it was delayed for such a long time.

mr. ik claims that musharraf was a bad leader and that what he did was wrong but id like to ask ik what is that he is doing right now? instaed of being supportive he is being not only objective but also bringing in quaid e azam and allama iqbal. how can he talk about islam when he himself did not rather does not practice islam even today?? all he wants is public attention may it be by being pro taliban(in a way).

i am also in favour of sharia but has ik ever spoken of the sharia himself? how can he not condemn the modern society around him and demand the islamic laws? we are in real need of an islamic state that we promised the muslims. only if we change the open media and the modern dressing of the people today can we fight the problems we face right now.

how can ik complain on behalf of fata when he knows that fata is only a part of pakistan on the papers or the atlas. the people of fata call their area “ilaqa ghair” a heaven for the dacoits and now millitants. the place where all the stolen cars and killers or “wanted” people flee to. where pakistani government or police or the millatry has no say.

i think ik needs to grow up and see the acctual problem. will there be peace if the army comes back from swat and the adjoining areas? is he really that insane to believe that the poor taliban are being killed by their own brothers dressed in army uniform?

what about the attacks of the poor brothers on their evil muslim brothers dressed in the uniform? okay we leave the army or the rest of the forces what about the innocent civilians being killed by the suicide attackers are they not the brothers of the taliban? or is it that only we are their brothers?

if the answer to this question is that innocent pepole do die with the government officals then i am sorry to say that it too will happen to the poor people living in waziristan and swat areas.

how can ik of all the people complain about the sad sittuations of the people living in the camps when he himself as a citizen of this country knows the standing of pakistan in all ways and means? he knows that those people are getting the maximum from the government and also the people of this country,those people who believe that we all are one and we stand here to support them in all ways possible for us.

in the end i would like to tell ik and those who complain about the bad conditions in the camp and those who talk about the partition and quaid e azam to go back a few years not far but only 61 years 9 months and 19 days back when at the time of partition the muslims came to pakistan they had worse conditions to live in and not only that but they also faced most inhuman attitude by the hindus and sikhs while miggration but they still migrated from lavish homes and high class lives just to be in their country. are the swatis facing problems worse then the partiton?

I’m still waiting for the answers to my following simple questions

1- Why doesn’t IK condemn Taliban savages without any ifs and buts ?
2- Has IK ever arranged a single Press conference to condemn in-human acts of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
3- Has IK ever led a rally against in-human terrorist activities of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.

Also, in an earlier post the word “UNDERLYING” was mistyped as “UNDERLING”.

Sorry.

Has our leadership – political and military – decided to fight America’s war? Our gallant jawans in the armed forces will no doubt defeat the enemy but what happens then? There is an acrid smell of plots being cooked in the corridors of power. We need to wake up before Pakistan goes the way of Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/31-05-2009/col14.htm

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/31-05-2009/col3.htm

As for JI. They were against the creation of Pakistan itself. There stance hasn’t changed much.

@Aseer,
Mohtaram, sukhn azmai ka shukrya. Aap ki riffat-e-khayal mauzu ko is qadar wusat de chuki hai ke us ka ahaata ek tehreer mein karna mumkin nahein. Albatta zaer-e-behas mouzu ko us qadar wusat denay se jo uljhao paida hota hai wo hamein ek khaas nateejay per pohonchnay se mehroom rakhta hai. Isi liye mouzu tak mehdood rehna chahiye. (Choonkay aap ne apni tehreer ka baqya nisf hissa zaban-e-farang mein likha hai is liye mein bhi baqya nisf usi zuban mein likhoon ga. Arz karnay ka maqsad tha ke mein bhi qaumi zuban se aashna hoon aur is mein izhar-e-khayal per qudrat rakhta hoon.)
You have brought in everything from language to education to what not in this issue. Now there are two aspects of this issue – one is long term and the other is short term. Since the thread was about the short term debate i.e. operation or no-operation I didn’t delve into the long term aspects. Most of your points are very valid when put in the context of long term analysis and I am in agreement with them but let us keep the long term cause-analysis debate for another thread.
However, like @pakwatan12 your asking of personal questions like what I have personally contributed to the country is regrettable. As I said to @pakwatan12 we are here to debate political issues and I would not like to go into personal details of what I have and what I haven’t contributed, on this public forum. Stick to the issues and do not get personal.

@asif65
Everything that you have stated falls into the category of strategy, tactics and management of the operation and its fallout and over that I am in agreement with you that reckless and excessive use of force or extra heavy handedness is counterproductive. Just so that we don’t move in circles there are two aspects of this operation:
1- The causes and objectives of the operation i.e. whether the operation should be carried out or not and what is supposed to be achieved through it.
2- How should the operation be carried out, what weapons, strategies and tactics to use and how to manage its fallout.

All my arguments and analysis falls in the first aspect (where I support the operation and its objective of rooting out the rebels without any negotiations) whereas all your presentation falls into the second aspect. Just because the government is badly managing the second aspect does not mean that the first aspect is wrong. Again, I am in agreement with you that there is significant room for improvement in how IDPs are managed, how targets are eliminated and how force is applied. I also agree with you that recklessness and irresponsibility in this regard is counterproductive and in another post on another thread I had asserted that the whole thing will require a surgeon’s approach and not an iron smith’s. I would urge you not to confuse the two aspects like IK and address the two aspects separately. While doing so be realistic and kindly consider the following things:

1- This is war it will bring hardships. It is not a bed of roses. There will be damage to property and life, there will be collateral damage and there will be hardships no matter how precise weapons you use. We have to face the hardships with courage, help our brothers and sisters in need and keep their morale high, give public and political support to the army so that the operation is finished quickly and the time span of the hardships of the people is reduced.
2- Collateral damage will result from three factors: a) Excessive use of force by the military. b) Lack of discipline and failure to follow guidelines by the local populace. c) Barbaric nature of the militants who will use civilian property and lives as shields. Objectively focus on all aspects rather than only one.
3- Emotional and political dealing with IDP issue will only add to the complexity of the mess. If the IDPs have to live in camps they should be accommodated close to their areas rather than being encamped 2500 km downstream near Karachi. That adds to the cost of logistics, ability to help them, ability to monitor them and bring them back once the operation is over. Proper registration is necessary to avoid proper administration and do not make such issues emotional and political. Remember one of Jinnah’s tenets was discipline!

Be objective and rational when dealing with these issues. We are not here to win arguments rather our objective should be to find the best solution to end this problem and put our country back to progression. Your unrealistic and emotional approach will add to the complexities just like IK’s would.
(End of my posting to this thread).