by Asif Salahuddin
They have no tolerance. They speak, abusively if necessary, and desire little debate in return. They order and demand to be obeyed. They care not of another’s grievance or state of affairs, nor make any effort towards an understanding of such. They choose to remain ignorant of the world around and its realities that impact them. They wish their every whim to be met and every diktat to be followed by all. They are prepared to use violence – brutal, unrelenting and destructive violence – until they get their way.
Bearded, uneducated, warrior tribes from the North West reaches of Pakistan? No. The real extremists of Pakistan are the pseudo-intellectual, liberal elite dining away and making merry in the posh settings of Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad.
For it is at their insistence that the might of the Pakistan army has been hurled indiscriminately at an entire civil populace, resulting in its wake the displacement of over 3 million people and the death of thousands. This now stands as the largest unsettlement of humankind caused by man since the Rwandan massacres in Africa fifteen years ago and further bigger than the migration during the Indian partition itself. All because of the US backed lie that a few thousand rag tag group of fighters could capture the capital and hence overrun the country.
These extremists sitting at the helm of the country have swallowed every instruction and propaganda issued by the Americans and in doing so have taken Pakistan down a path of self obliteration. The entire army now stands pitted against a major ethnic race in Pakistan and this in turn bodes only one outcome for the country – civil war leading to state level disintegration akin to the loss of East Pakistan.
Such individuals have chosen to completely overlook the fact that a major foreign power has shifted its entire focus on the region after having just meted out the same policy on Iraq where it has succeeded in destabilising the entire state and engulfing the country with ethnic and sectarian flames. They have ignored the fact that the USA has a brutal and dark track record of using its intelligence agencies to ferment such turmoil in countries and that these very agencies have now settled in Pakistan and have been given a free reign to run amok. The CIA and FBI are openly known to have offices in every main city, airport and a thorough presence in the capital Islamabad.
Such extremists, falling into two overlapping camps, are both drawn from the sitting and opposition political leaders, bureaucrats, elements of the so called ‘civil society’ and serving and retired military leaders. The first group has continued to grip the reins of power in the country and all the perks that come with it; essentially the hundreds of millions of dollars in aid from the USA for the trough from which only their snouts will gorge out of. The second group is a fanatically secular band that will turn vile the moment the words Islam and society are mixed in the same sentence.
Together, they have managed to execute quite immaculately the American plan to turn the US’s War on Terror into Pakistan’s War on Terror, since the people of Pakistan have simply refused to back the former.
But perhaps the biggest shame is that the real intellectual element of our society has gone along with this, or at best is standing idle at the wayside as silent observers, for it has been very easy to accept the mistruths churned out by the extremists.
The real truth – a lot harder to swallow – is that the US wishes to achieve complete domination in the region. It has to ensure that the planned oil and gas pipelines from Central Asia running through Afghanistan, down to the ports of Pakistan, remain undisturbed. Further it must guarantee that the waterways near the coast of Pakistan are never threatened by any other power and that the control of this vital Middle-Eastern oil artery remains completely under its domain. In doing so the US has concluded that the only real way to implement this is to militarily occupy the region and eventually carve up Pakistan into smaller, weaker and hence more manageable states.
However, this is something which the Muslim community in the ‘AfPak’ region have declined to play ball with as they simply refuse to be a subjugated people; they demonstrated this with the British over a century ago, they demonstrated this with the Soviets twenty years ago and they are now making this clear to the Americans. As long as these fighters attack the US troops in Afghanistan, and continue to disrupt their main supply line which comes from Pakistan, the US will not be able to achieve its materialistic objectives in the region.
After repeated drone attacks the US simply cannot stamp out this resistance. Nor has it been able to send its own troops across the border to tackle these elements, partly due to the immense anti-American public opinion in Pakistan. But what the US has now succeeded in doing is to get the Pakistan army to fight its war.
But how long will the sincere elements of Pakistan stand by and watch the country being torn apart for a foreign objective under the whims of such extremists? How long will the sincere officers in the Pakistan army continue to act submissively under the orders of their traitor commanders and continue with this utter madness that has gripped the country? They must act now and listen to the voices of reason around them that call them to a new future for our Islamic nation. They must act now otherwise very soon it will be too late and America would have won.
Well, i can see where Imran Khan gets his ideas and information these days.
This right-wing intellectual reservoir of BS, conspiracy theories, liberal bashing, blatant lies, and made-up facts (which are in nature hard to swallow, as they are lies) has been kicked off the Jang-Group payroll, and I assume is scouring the Internet for customers.
Usually, it’s the left-wing that is accused of inciting class war-fare, but the Pakistani right wing is unique; First it curses the liberals for their support of anti-terrorist operations (anti-terrorist, not anti-extremist, since we need to create a whole lot more liberals to take on JI and their ilk); Then it accuses them of following some sort of imaginary American agenda in the region (I say imaginary because we are always told CIA/FBI/NSA/XYZ has offices in Pakistan; well they always had it since before 1960, i.e., Badaber and so forth). Americans have always been in the region. They used Pakistan to open up to China. They used Pakistan to win over the Soviets. If the liberals and left-wing are somehow pro-American, well then JI and the right-wing actually fought for them in Afghanistan. I think the city dwellers in this article being accused of following some imaginary American agenda are at least not as good of followers as the JI supporters were during the 1980’s; maybe not even as good as when these nut-jobs supported killing Bengalis in East Pakistan.
I am sick and tired of these right-wing nut jobs. “…pseudo-intellectual, liberal elite…..”; What the heck is Mr. Salahuddin talking about? I believe the same words were used by General Musharaff when he was at the zenith of his dictatorship. “….largest unsettlement of humankind caused by man since the.…. bigger than the migration during the Indian partition itself….”; Buddy that figure is 12.5 million (3 million poor souls and 12.5 million poor souls; both figures are regrettable but were necessary in the given circumstances). World order, Muslims vs. others, natural resources, geographic distributions, American power, Pakistani capabilities and inabilities, governance, government, politicians, dictators shall all be discussed, but to write BS to say that we should somehow allow an armed grouped of thugs calling themselves Taliban in Pakistan, I can’t support. They need to put their weapons down, period.
@Asif Slahuddin
All you can do is cry, and write articles without any valid points in it. It doesn’t matter how many people die in Pakistan from the ongoing Taliban violence, you just can’t get enough. If you eliminate those extremist, the liberal extremism will also end.
@admin,
Some time back you asked for comments on the constitution etc. for this website. One serious request, please do not let crap make its way to the headlines of this website be it a proponent of any ideology (left/right, conservative/liberal, religious/secular) and this article IS a classic example of crap!!
@ Asif Salahuddin
I would say excellent article, exposing the real motives behind the whole mess created by the US and its front line traitor allies. The battle is two prone, one is for the resources of this region and its control for this purpose and other is purely ideological as they want to weaken all those Muslims states which could become the starting point of an Islamic khilafah state. They have started from Iraq and now moved on to Pakistan. Please do refer to the article in Times magazine “CIA silent war in Pakistan”. However they can only hinder this change but can not stop it, as the smokescreen of secular democracy and capitalism is shedding away and people can now see the ugly face of secular democracy and capitalism. In fact a few elites are in control of the whole nation and are betraying them in the worst possible way.
Good work Bro salahudeen and keep it up!!!!
Regards
a good article highlighting actual problem, we are so much busy with the symptoms of the disease that we forget about the actual disease.
america invaded afghanistan based on false claims
america invaded iraq on conjured up claims
america has bases and cia stations in pakistan
all of the above for what?? are these only conspiracies or these are military occupations??
why don’t these liberal extremists study iraq example and learn, they just want to brush aside american threats as conspiracy… pseudo-intellectuals…
there are liberals but there are no liberal extremists.taliban are killing people,destroying schools,boming mosques.how cleverly writer has put all blame to liberals.shame on this sort of people.
@BHO,u are spot on man.i totally agree with u.this asif is a
xxxxxxxWe can’t allow any foreing elements to destablise our country weather in uniform and without uniform. As far as internal dehshatgards are concerned nobody should be allowed to do any kind of dehashatgardi in any part of Pakistan including fata and karachi. Faccist liberals like salman taseer are not acceptable at all.
Anyone who don’t condemn foreign agencies is also the part of these so called liberals.
OH look at the language Mr. Civilized democrat is using, this is indeed the true face and manners of secular democracy, isn’t it Mr. Democrat?
Why don’t you guys write an article and send it to Mr. Admin and let the people be enlightened with your wisdom.
Regards
@Asif Salahuddin, Why are you jumping like headless chicken to save Oil/ gas resources in Central Asia? If they care about that they should fight their own war. Pakistani blood is for sure valuable than oil.
I must appreciate Mr salahuddin but his direct attack style was too extreme. His earlier article too was atleast visionary- a quality lacked by our leaders.
The problem with these Taliban (deobandis) is that they are always being played by our ISI. Those who know Abdul Aziz directly (like me and almost all the journalist in Rwp/Islambad) knew well how he was played by agencies. The two colonals living in faridia and lal masjid along with their families “ready to die for Islam” pushing him further and further. And they, in emotions to see islamic revolution, cross the limit (start physical instead of remaining political and intellectuals domains of struggle). Of course they are culprits too as Umer (r.a) said we the Muslim neither cheat and are not cheated. Why they are being used again and agains.
Look at swat. Muslim khan sitting with commisionar Syed Muhammad Javed (so called pro-taliban) in rest house and he is pushing him to go to kalam, dir, bonair and so on, kill these people today, ” i am with you”, govt can’t do anything, preparing the next day kill-list, and bla bla bla. Taliban think they are on the verge of getting sharia in Malakand. And when the commisionar is investigated for the commandos killing , he openly saying i did everything on the saying of high ups. which high ups Mr Javed???? Does not it seem fishy??? Why the Dunya tv correspondant was given a shut up call when he interviewed 4 agencies personal who were invloved in slaughtering people??? Again these super heroes used and American war moves into our coutry.
On the other side a full blown propaganda on its way, taliban violate agreement, they slaughter, lashing video, and other stuff. The slaughter videos which are there in Karkhano market in Peshawar since 1996, But all emerged at a time when Obama review of Af-pak completes and calls for expansion of this war to pakistani land. Why?????
Operation start a few hour after Hillary sahiba said that the govt has abdicated to Taliban, why????
America financing the war why??? to help us?? are we all naive??
War moving to waziristan why????
War started at the time of “taliban spring offensive” in Afghanistan Why??? To engage them here. Even the 2nd chief of American army in Afghanistan said that taliban are moving from Afghanistan to Pakistan- American must be happy.
Not a few taliban killed and what happened to the populace, Is not the real target the people?
For all liberals!!!!
The story is not that simple as you portray- some savage people who need to be finshed.
The current policy will annihilate Pakistan not save.
Anyone who went to IDP camp will testify that the people are not that angry to Taliban than they are to army. I myself went to swat and found the media biased reporting.
Seems barbaric but slaughterings, lashes, supposed violation of agreement are micro issues which is taking us to be on the bush side-a macro issue.
Asif Salahuddin and other low IQ born idiots of his ilk, who watch too much late night James Bond movies and see conspiracy theories even behind the current global economic meltdown, are behaving like idiot pigeons who close their eyes as the cat is approaching them.
Whether the Takfeeri Taliban were created by USA, us, me, you, anybody, the fact of the matter is that they have to be knocked down once and forever by any method, and whether this good job is done by anybody, needs to be praised, as they will be doing good for all those generations to come.
The Deobandi Takfeeri Taliban have nothing to do with Islam. Being dislodged from Afghanistan and many other countries where they were in small number, they are looking forward to create their Emirate now in the land of Pakistan, and their dreams are not limited to Pakistan as they are eyeing to spread their influence all over the world. This sounds lunatic but yes, these bunch of bearded thugs are lunatic.
It is not a matter of being liberal or unliberal as this jack*ss is trying to portray. I am no liberal according to his definition but I dont want to see my country in hands of barbarians under the cloak of Talibans. I would even go the extent of Nuking these Takfeeris, even if it comes to that.
So Mr Slahuddin, stop this crap, and dont drink too much. It is definitely not good for senses
@ deltaforce
“The Deobandi Takfeeri Taliban have nothing to do with Islam.” (fatwa from liberal- why you condemn fatwa issing mulvis)
“I would even go the extent of Nuking these Takfeeris, even if it comes to that.”(Why you call other extremist)
“the fact of the matter is that they have to be knocked down once and forever by any method, and whether this good job is done by anybody, needs to be praised, as they will be doing good for all those generations to come.”(crap- This mentality is destroying Pakistan).
Attention Mr Khanan and likeminded on the Taliban Bandwagon
People like you who want that the Taliban should take over and the rest of the bunch wait, are probably saying this because low lifes like you probably have ways out either by running out of Pakistan or sitting on the toes of your paymasters who might take you in case of an extreme scenario.
This is not a fight between the liberal and the Takfeeris. You said this mentality is destroying Pakistan. Well, right said Fred. It has already destroyed Pakistan. It cant be worst than this. And now we, (idiot, read this word: WE as it includes everyone), need to stand up to this monster.
This is not the time for pointing out fingers and doing your digital analysis as to who made Taliban and who fed them. Right now, this monster has to be slayed. They have to be shown their place in the dustbin of history.
By the way, for me its useless to talk to born idiot hypothyroids like you, who dont have even the guts to call spade a spade, but nevertheless, the nation as a whole will Inshallah overcome this monster sooner or later and people like you would be disgraced like mad dogs. I wont reply in person to you on this topic anymore as I think I have conveyed the message to you. There is a rare hope that if you have the slightest of common sense, ehmmm, sorry, rare sense in you, you would understand what I meant to say. If not the forum is open for you to bark as much as possible
Extremists of Pakistan? Here are the extremists of Pakistan. If you read the actual letter supposedly signed by TTP’s Muslim Khan it will make you sick. That is extremism. In short the letter orders all Shias to convert, or pay Jazia or their women will be raped, turned in to concubines, men killed and children enslaved. It orders shias to convert or pay Jazia or another option is to leave Pakistan. That is extremism! I dont see the author of this article condemning this, nor the great Imran Khan from who’s city this ugly letter has emerged. why? :
The News
A terrible threat
Monday, June 15, 2009
The letter sent to an Imambargah in Lahore, and reproduced by this newspaper, says nothing that is very new. It threatens an attack on the place of worship unless Shias stop ‘anti-Islamic’ activities. It insists the Shias are in fact ‘non-Muslims’. What is shocking is that we as a people, and as a state, have done so little to stop such attacks, to act against those who promote hatred for a community that according to some estimates forms around 20 per cent of the country’s Muslim population.
The attempt to label the Shias as ‘non-Muslims’ has been on for decades. The process has gained pace since the 1990s, when the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) initiated a systematic process of murdering Shias by bombing mosques or gunning down leaders. Retaliation by Shia groups triggered sectarian violence that killed hundreds and devastated numerous families. The ban placed on extremist groups has not ended this process. The Taliban, with their distorted beliefs linked to orthodox Sunni schools of thought, have carried forward the process. In the Kurram Agency – the lone tribal areas where Shias formed a sizeable chunk of the population – there has been something akin to genocide. According to some accounts the killings continue.
This is a part of a larger process. The effort to cast the Shias in the role of a religious minority stems from the fact that the state connived with orthodox forces in the 1970s. Pakistan after all is made up of many diverse groups. It can flourish only if each of these communities can do so. And for non-Muslims, the situation is of course still more perilous. Our government must wake up to reality. Only by acting now can we save our state from further violence and halt the process of irrational violence that has led to more and more schisms.
Boo Hoo! Cry me a River pkTaliban!
It boggles my mind, that those who sit quietly through murder sprees by Uzbeks, Chechens,
SaudiYahudi Arabian and other terrorist scum of the earth against God Fearing, Barelvi Majority, Moderate Muslims (not the BS “moderates” that Musharraf thinks he is), waste NO TIME criticising any action against these anti state, anti Pakistan and anti-Islam elements!When their favorite talib animals are being hit back, they cry their crocodile tears! These Alqaeda apologists and their crying game is now exposed.
Perhaps the venerable author of this minced words, murder supporting article could find some time to shed a tear of remorse and shame for the horrific murder of many Ulema who are not “liberal fascists” .. who are not “elite intellectuals”, who are common people of Pakistan and who are being murdered day and night by these DOGS of america and yahoodia arabia in the name of FAKE Islam and Fake “Jihad”
Lanat on those who support these murderers
Dozakh and pain and suffering for those who make no effort to understand and support the designs of yahood on Pakistan (designs in the name of “Jihad” which these useful idiots champion … because “they said Jihad you see! and they have beeeeerds! … so these talib dogs must be real Muslims? right? right?)
WRONG!
@Asif Salahuddin:
Still waiting for your categorical condemnation of the murder of Ulema’e Karam by your favorite TAliban.
Or are you going to put it in RAW’s account? Or is it Mossad this time? to malign the doodh-kay-dhulay talibs that you worship.
Islam shuns Munafiqat. Munafiqat is practiced IN the name of Islam. This is why it is called Munafiqat.
Fake “Jihad”
Fake “Islam”
Fake “reformers”
that and the useful idiots!
Ah…the avalanche of BS, tides of utter dreck and waves of absolute bilge…they wash over the lonely outposts of logic.
LOL…I didn’t know Aitzaz Ahsan, Munir Malik, CJ Iftikhar Chaudhary and their extremist followers were cutting throats, setting bodies on fires, suicide bombing Jumma prayers, digging graves and hanging the dead bodies.
Taliban Sisters : It’s a conspiracy! Its the Indians who carry out suicide bombings! Not Taliban…they destroyed poppy fields in Afghanistan, peace, Mullah Omar…ummm…err…PC in Peshawar was bombed by Indians
TTP : Nope! We DID it
Taliban Sisters: It’s America’s war! Af-Pak…umm…Gaza…Apko ni pata, Gunatanamo Bay, it’s not our war. Dekhen ji, the Swat flogging video was fake!
TTP: Nope! We DID it
Taliban Sisters: Liberal extermists! liberal fascists! Suicide bombing at the hospital and the funeral in DI Khan is a conspiracy against Taliban!!!
TTP: Nope! We DID it
Taliban Sisters: OK…b-b-but those who bomb mosques canot be Muslim. The Taliban are Muslim, hence the Taliban are not responsible!!!
TTP: Nope! We DID it
Taliban Sisters: OK….b-b-but there are Good Taliban and Bad Taliban. We need to take sperm samples from Baitullah Mehsud and Fazlullah and after DNA analysis at PIMS, we’ll let you know who’s been naughty, who’s been nice. The good Taliban cannot have suicide bombed Jamia Naeemia. The good Taliban cannot have murdered Dr. Sarfaraz Naeemi
TTP: Nope! We DID it
Taliban Sisters: OK…b-b-but they are OUR people. We will talk to them….muzakraaaat…chand ki raaat…The Real Taliban do not hate Pakistan, they do not want to take over, they do not declare democracy, judiciary and elections Haram!
TTP: Nope! We DID it
You have to give it to the Taliborg. They do not lie. They are upfront and honest about their murderous intentions. The lying, conniving, deceitful Taliban sisters like Imran Khan and Qazi ought to learn a thing or two from their sohnRay veers, their brothers the zombies.
Trying to write about the war in Swat after rolling a fat blunt of whacky tabaccy does not impart crystal clarity, only a paranoid high. Smoking Taliban bhang does not make the Great Warrior Asif Salahuddin a great analyst, only a bhangi
and leads to the laughable conclusion that the biggest problem of Pakistan today are the s0i-disant “liberal fascists”.
The writer asks the officers of the Pakistan Army to desert their units, abandon their men and allow the Taliban dogs to ravage the helpless Swatis. The writer asks the men in uniform of Pakistan Army to mount a coup d’etat, decapitate the military and civilian leadership and join forces with Mullah Fazlullah and Baitullah Mehsud.
This is a call for High Treason against the constitution of Pakistan. WHY is this article on pkpolitics when it so obviously supports treason and rebellion? The constitution of Pakistan is sacred and the Republic under its shade shall survive the onslaught of the barbarians, notwithstanding the wet dreams of Taliban sisters.
The freshly-shaved and bravely running-away Taliban and their bedwetting supporters are soiling their shalwars for fear that the military operation might just succeed in destroying the hornets’ nests. The bedwetting Taliban supporters need to look after their soiled shalwars.
Another attempt to distort facts from a pro-Taliban writer. Who is he trying to fool? Whole article is nothing but an absolute garbage. Innocent people are being blown up day in day out and we are still bickering on who is good taliban and who is bad taliban. We must back our Army and Govt in their efforts to wipe out taliban animals from the region. Blaming America for all our own problems is absolute non-sense. We MUST start madarssa reforms as soon as possible because this new generation of madarsa graduates is the most dangerous thing we have in our country.
Pakistan Zindabad Taliban (and their supporters) murdabad
I don’t believe Americans can be succesful in establishing democratic government in Afghanistan.Afghanistan is still living in stone age.They need to spend huge amount of money on educating people.
I am unable to comprehend Mr Salahuddin’s logic.Suppose if Americans want to build a pipe line through Afghanistan and Pakistan,this should be good for the whole region.We just signed a contract to build pipeline from Iran that does not mean Iran wants domination over Pakistan.
What right wing nuts are unable to understand that their salvation depends on science and technology.They rather live in caves,than getting help from western countries.
Look at China and learn something their whole economy depends on American consumers.
We are illiterate and stubborn people.
Mr Salahuddin may be liberals are abusive (i condemn it) but they don’t slaughter innocent people.These monsters will be at your throat first if they gain power.Look at what they did to Maulana Naeemi.Was he an elitist liberal brain washed by West?
Mr Salahuddin it is time to wake up.You are aiding and abetting the enemies of Pakistan,enemies of progress.
@Asif Salahuddin
OK I will make it simple for you to answer, what was the alternative of military operation. I hope you will enlighten us this time because you took the time to pen this cr@p but didn’t offered an alternative.
@khanan
do you also belong to Ansar abbasi school of taliban arts. Some how he is really quite now-a-days and not discussing this issue at all, but before he was jumping up and down in supporting taliban!mals.
@Mr Salahuddin
Who are you trying to fool here? Your views are extremely wrong and misleading.
Please stop supporting enemies of this country.
@Asif Salahuddin
“…The entire army now stands pitted against a major ethnic race in Pakistan and this in turn bodes only one outcome for the country – civil war leading to state level disintegration akin to the loss of East Pakistan…..”
Do you really believe this. I guess this may be your last wish, so that you can say, ” I told ya sa”, before taliban sl!t your thr0at for not having your shalwar above ankles and writing articles in an enemy language.
@BHO
@democrate
@AClarionCall
U guys always talk bul sht. All Army Generals are Liberal Extremist. who was Bush (Liberal Extrmist) how many people have been killed during Bush era. Plz open your eyes otherwise your eyes would be closed foreve.
@bechari-awam & etc
the article nicely presents how liberal extremists are bent upon killing fellow country men…
only liberal extremists would dislike this article…
@Asif Salahuddin
I would say it lays out US plan pretty good. Every thinking person knows that war on terror is all BS. However, I would look at the situation from economic angle. US wants the oil and gas to flow West thru Georgia and Turkey to EU. This requires that they control Afghanistan or keep it in turmoil. BP has already built an oil pipeline but it’s use is below capacity. The gas pipeline is in works. This means that Afghanistan, Pakistan and India don’t get any. Without energy these countries will not grow rapidly. Notice their unhappiness with Iranian gas pipeline.
Taliban are supposed to be the resistance in Afghanistan but don’t hear much about action there. They likely been bought off and may be they want some payoff from Pakistan. Pakistani elite are also proxies and so long there is chaos on the ground, their masters are happy.
Ordinary Pakistani is not even in the picture. My advice to everybody: take a deep breath, relax and keep your ammo dry.
@khanan..jazak-ALLAH bother its refreshing to see someone talking sense…..the article by brother salahaddin is also one of the rare one addressing the ‘ground realities’ as they are not as told or shown by our ARMY and its run propaganda machine……..
it does’nt make me any sad or frustrated anymore that so many on this forum and many more effected by this propaganda or thier own ‘convenience’ to keep thier hopes in ARMY as savior of pakistan rather than in ALLAH .
If any of them read Quran daily , i can predict it will clear thier vision.
For the rest of liberals ( non-religious) group i can only tell that all your hoo-haa will not change anything on the grounds ..ALLAH mashiat will prevail..many before have tried thier tricks and indeed thier tricks were powerfull enough to move mountains but in the end it will be ALLAH’s way and those who fight in the name of ALLAH will prevail, they have nothing to be sad about….insha-ALLAH.
The ARMY assissted a forign kuffaria power in killing muslims and toppling an islamic emirate(Afghanistan) and then they compromised on Kashmir struggle and then they made AQ khan, the national hero a thief and then they send troops to FATA and then they handed over 800 pakistanis including Dr.Afia to CIA and then they killed almost a thousand young girls in Lal masjid……when you think these american mercenery Agent Generals will be brought to justice ..it is pay back time and soon they would be rooted.
ALLAH sunnat will happen soon and it will be seen by all…insha-ALLAH.
Can’t find a home for a poorly written article?? Publish it on pkpolitics!
The quality of articles on this site so $hit—it’s not even worth mentioning. It does of course provide a good and useful service with uploading tv shows.
This Salahuddin fellow has obviously no clue—I am sure he is the one who sits in his drawing room and writes without visiting the affected areas.
There are good and bad people in every community and every bent of mind and thus there are good people who sport the beard and wear the hijab, but equally there are good people who are liberal and secular as well. Our NGOs who are actively working for the rehabilitation of the IDPs are full of these good secular liberals.
What I would like to ask Salahuddin is how many “liberal extremists” have forcibly de-veiled women? How many of them have cut the beards off men? Leave aside the more grevious crimes, but even walking past the madrassa close to Faisal Mosque in Islamabad and a woman feels harrassed. The same is the case in Saudi Arabia (where I lived for a long time). But in the west and among liberals, you are free to choose—nobody forces anything on you.
And yes, the Americans have their own agendas–why shouldn’t they? But the only way we can stand up to them is if we are strong and as long as we tolerate these infidel talibans we can never be strong so they must be eliminated!
Hey guys let’s be real Zardari and Kayani are in is the clutches of Anglo American Mafia… They have to do what they have to do to earn their keep…The money talks and BS walks; current budget number should give you guys a pause from the emotional out bursts. The country is bankrupt and looking for hand outs from the Empire that is also broke …so to prove that Paki army can play real dirty to get something in the trough and that is the question to make a real miserable case for Anglo American or so called friends of Pakistan to see for assistance as if they really give a crap… These Americans have screwed their own masses what godforsaken world the Paki people are living…Get your shit together …or it is too late? I think it is …
Watch this video for your edification and where do you guys fit in the scheme of things
The Obama Deception HQ Full length version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
Deltaforce
First learn the norm of decency before writing comments. I wonder how people of your “stature” call other badwho can not restrict yourselves to mere decent debate what else one can expect from you. If you can not tolerate opposing view than you are same extremist what you accuse taliban of.
This is Nazeer naji style man…
I have gone through all the debate in this forum. I have felt that the liberal extremists are over reacting to quite reasonable and thought provoking ideas put forward by Asif Salahuddin and Khanan.
Neither of them have supported Taliban or their acts rather they have given us the real picture of the whole scenerio that how the US and indian agencies are playing Taliban and Pak Army…. the benifit is going to none other than US and her illicit child India.
Now whats the solution???
In my view the solution is….
If you really want end the insurgency in Pakistan you have to cut its source which are these notorious agencies…. like someone very wisely pointed out that we are only investigating the symptoms of disease and not paying any attention to the causes of disease.
Stop all kind of diplomatic relations with the enemies who are trying to tear apart pakistan i.e India and the US…. Cut their supply lines, isolate them as they are already been isolated and expell them from this region… and the peace will follow!
What in the world is this rabid rant of a mother of all virulent extremist anti-state rants doing on pkp?
Interesting to see that the secular psychos want to silence any voice dissenting from their nut case view point. They are the neo-cons of Pakistan.
Good opening first paragraph … well summarised … not sure if I can agree all of it but first paragraph is very well written
@all apologists, the only religious people on earth
I am in the category of liberal fascist just like Dr. Naeemi, Javed Ghamdi, Sahabzada Fazal kareem and most of Sunni Ulema.
Guys, as a liberal fascist I am waiting for an answer from @Asif Salahuddin and @khanan but if looks like I will have the same response as always i.e. being labeled as liberal fascist just to dodge the question. OK I will repeat again this time to all the guys who think I am a liberal fascist including @JJkhan, @adonis, and some other barsati maindak who appear just for once to give support to appologist and then go back to their koaan.
@all apologists
“@Asif Salahuddin
OK I will make it simple for you to answer, what was the alternative of military operation. I hope you will enlighten us this time because you took the time to pen this cr@p but didn’t offered an alternative.
@khanan
do you also belong to Ansar abbasi school of taliban arts. Some how he is really quite now-a-days and not discussing this issue at all, but before he was jumping up and down in supporting taliban!mals.”
Please call me whatever you want but do answer this time along with usual rant!ng
I would suggest that IQ test of mulla leaders be coducted (if it is not un-islamic) and then those will be ashamed (if they have any credibility inside) who blindly follow mullas. (Mullas will be afraid to be tested for IQ, so will call it un-islamic.
What a load of garbage this article is. Who (author) is he trying to fool? Talibans have created serious problems for internal stability/security of Pakistan and now our Army MUST finish them off. We must back our Army/Govt in their efforts to get rid of Taliban animals.
Pakistan zindabad Taliban and their supporters murdabad
I am proud to be a liberal fascist.
Why Asif Salahuddin had to lie,exaggerate to get his point across?
Quoting Asif Salahuddin
“resulting in its wake the displacement of over 3 million people and the death of thousands. This now stands as the largest unsettlement of humankind caused by man since the Rwandan massacres in Africa fifteen years ago and further bigger than the migration during the Indian partition itself. All because of the US backed lie that a few ‘
someone already pointed out the number of displaced people in 1947.
Here is another fact conveniently ignored.
“5 million Afghans fled to Pakistan and Iran, 1/3 of the prewar population of the country. Another 2 million Afghans were displaced within the country. In the 1980s, one out of two refugees in the world was an Afghan.”
‘Moon say jhag nikalta hoa ye Moulvi’ this mindset is the cause of voilence, this is a violent article, inciting hatred against others through misinformation and lies.
He has no guts to blame Army for the ‘operation Rah-e-Rast’. No guts.
As if Army needs to ask Pakistani Liberals to go on an offensive? this entire thrust is a misguided fools attempt to put blame anywhere but not take responsibility for his own actions. These kind of people have brought our country to knees.
Under Zia-ul-Haq, the Godfather of Right wing Asif Salahudins of our country, American aid was recieved like ‘Muno-salwa’ God’s Gift.
He is not against anything just he suddenly finds himself at the wrong end of the geopolitics.
His atrocious ,destructive ,dictatorial,intolerant days are over . That is what is bothering him.
If he had written this article eight years ago, he would have been a hero and possibly a president.
@JUTT Kharak…
Gentleman!
The details in which you are going in are completely irrelevant. There is no point in comparing the number of refugees of all these massacres.
All what matters is that for whose sake these 3 million people have been smoked out of their homes?
Is it for the sake of restoring the writ of the state then why dont the government pull out whole of the Karachi to restore the writ of the state in karachi challenged by handful of MQM extremists…
it is only for the sake of pleasing the masters of our shameless rulers.
you can’t call it a day when it is still night…
But those like you will argue over non issues and look away the ground reality…
@usayd
Was creation of Pakistan a massacre because it led to the displacement of 12.5 million souls? Aha! Let me issue a fatwa here:
To all Ummah (whatever that is):
Usayd has been declared a Kafir, if she/he is not a Muslim, then this fatwa is not needed (please refer to fatwa #144949494839 issued for ki**ing of such non-believers). She/he deserves to be ki**ed because he has called the creation of Islamic Republic of Pakistan a massacre; Hence, starting today, be it on this forum, or anywhere else, “bhuun do salii/salay ko”.
I wanted to give you a taste of what ‘liberal extremists’ feel like when they read and hear people like Mr. Salahuddin who accuse ‘liberal extremists’ of towing the American line, as if only the right-wing in Pakistan cares about the Land of the Pure. Unfortunately for him, the ‘liberal extrmists’ care for all Pure in the Land of the Pure (Hindus, Christians, Jews, Parsis, and Muslims).
I think those who think that military option will be the solution to the crisis are living in the fools paradise. The internal turmoil are always solvable with good intelligence and the support of the local people. Current strategy is just compounding problem and the situation will go worse and worse. My appeal is to act responsibly and this only result in in our own damage.
These are facts. We are liberal extremists. Western massive global propaganda against the Islamic World has influenced and distorted our thoughts and minds. We have been placed into confusion- we feel inferior- we do crazy things- have lost our identity and qibla in the face of this high running propaganda in the global media. Sayings of Washington and western stories look very impressive and immediately draw our attention to do more and more accordingly. We don’t look behind to the consequences. We say this is progressive looking, enlightened moderation, and advancement and so on. Our holy Islamic figures –bearded pious people -freedom lovers- on sight turns into our minds as terrorists. As a consequence we have lost tranquility and peace and are talking about blood-revenge and enmity amongst ourselves.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/12/pakistan-taliban-aid-swat
softer face of ‘liberal extremists’ ????
the simple answer to the liberal extremist vs. religious militant argument is this
While liberal extremists maybe unethical, superficial, materialistic, amoral and a host of other pejoratives.. and that may give you more than valid reasons to disapprove or dislike their ethos… they are not forcing their worldview (however despicable it may seem) on anyone..
the religious militants on the other hand have made their modus operandi pretty clear….
as far as the anti military action camp goes…. do you think that a state should parley as equals with armed dissidents?? If you were in government would you really condone negotiations with an ideologically driven violent movement which aims to install their version of an ideal state on the rest of this country by force???
Banlgadesh came into being because the civil-military establishment chose to ignore the clearly articulated democratic expression of the majority…. Baluchistan is similiar where the establishment chose to ignore the basic needs of the majority of the population of the province.
This is an entirely different kettle of fish. You have a violent movement which does not enjoy mass popular support (emphasis on mass) either in the frontier or the rest of the country.
The government may have failed to provide basic civic amenities to its citizens but that can be resolved by a collective peaceful mobilisation of the people. As was proved in the long march to restore the judiciary.
We need to learn how to effectively use and build up our state institutions so that they work in perpetuity for the majority not for the sake of the current establishment. This will never be resolved by an exclusive, hate promoting, fascist movement.
@all
and before everyone jumps down my throat for being a liberal extremist… i’m not a big fan of the operation.. i merely see it as our only way out of this mess as long it as it is followed supported very closely by a very aggressive rehabilitation and rebuilding effort..
@usayd
If according to you and the writer of this garbage article think that we are fighting an American War then tell us whose war Talibans are fighting?
Whose war did we fight in the 1980’s in the name of religion?
Why was the whole nation fooled in the name of Jihad (actually fasad) by Gen Zia?
Why didn’t religious and political Right raised the issue of refugees then?
We created a mess in the 1980’s and now we are cleaning up the mess created by Zia regime
Religion is a commodity especially in our country and can be used by anybody to suit their cause or ulterior motives. Gen Zia did the same to prolong his illegal regime and also collected dollars then like our current Govt who is doing the same thing.
We made terrible mistakes then and now it is time to rectify errors. Time has come to get rid of gradual talibanisation of our State.
This writer is the biggest extremist in our country and his analysis is based on one-sided distorted view of our current situation. Also shame on him for inciting young Army officers to disobey orders from top brass; this is an act of treason.
reading the comments on this site it seems like ALL Pakistanies are either ‘Taliban terror!sts’ or ‘liberal fac!sts’………….whereas in reality i believe 95%+ of Pakistanies are in neither of the two categories??
so why is it that we are so split?? …………….like we didnt have any other issues to deal with considearing all of us are looking for prosperity of Pakistan??
@friends
Please do not call yourselves ‘liberal extremists’ just because the extremists chose this term for you in a war of words and ideas. As far as ideas are concerned, liberal and extremist put together qualify for being an oxymoron, even if you just go by the definition.
There is only one kind of extremist, and (s)he is not liberal – by definition.
Majority of people of Pakistan are moderate and vote either PPP (Left) or PML-N (Right) and a small number of votes also go to smaller parties like ANP, MQM and JUI. They all are moderate Left and Right parties. What writerof this article is trying to do is to force moderate people support and vote Far Right, i.e. Jamat Islami and may be PTI (supported by Taliban extremists).
Extremism is a cancer and unfortunately it is growing in Pakistan and growing fast. One negative effect is of introduction of Arabic culture in Pakistan where women are wearing scarf and abayas more than a traditional burqa.
Another negative effect took place in NWFP and FATA where taliban used Arabic methods of punishments like chopping heads in the middle of city.
Surely extrmism is on the rise and the writer Asif Salahuddin is playing a big role in promoting extremism in this country.
@bho @ghost of tk @mbokhari @democrate
I am a silent reader of this site… I have always felt repulsed by the taliban and their actions… however reading your poisonous comments, i feel even more revulsion against your ideology. Never thought I would ever think of any good thing that taliban can bring, but now i feel there might be some hikmat for their existence afterall… Only the taliban jamaadaars can clean the ghilazat of gutters that come out of the minds of ur kind.
@gv
I do no comment on this web log on any issues but I recall that you appeared to be a person of un0-biased thinking so here it is for old times sake-
quote
“While liberal extremists maybe unethical, superficial, materialistic, amoral and a host of other pejoratives.. and that may give you more than valid reasons to disapprove or dislike their ethos… they are not forcing their worldview (however despicable it may seem) on anyone.. ”
I must disgaree in the most vehement manner-(respectfully).
Liberal extremists must accept responsibility for-
1. ” Enlightened Moderation” fraud of Musharraf since they were and are party to that mindset- now with the thives of PPP in power.
2.The on coming political and economic disaster of the invasion of Swat- by continuous harrangues when the ANP govt: in the NWFP was trying to work out THEIR deal with the insurgents.
3.Regardless of wheather they like it or not- they must bear responsibility for the 3 million plus internal refugees.
They ARE and have been shoving their views down the throats of the Muslim peoople of Pakistan for the last 60 years- perhaps not by the use of physical force themselves but by using a lot of other people in the newsmedia , the esatblishment , the not so well disguised invasion so-called NGOs.
To YOU @ gv – I would just say this- Please be un-biased in a tseunami of bias.
On your comment -
“This will never be resolved by an exclusive, hate promoting, fascist movement. ”
Very true but let me ask the question-
If the people of Pakistan have been bamboozled into electing an exclsive group of un-repentent thieves and crooks who are owned by the sole super power- are they going to resolve the problem ?
The answer to that question is obvious and need not be stated.
Such is level of desperation, so intense is the desire of an Islamic revolution , so sacred are the ones who have disguised themselves as custodians of Islam, and so bad is QAHAT-E-RIJAL, that people are ready to accept anyone , I mean literally anyone as their hope for the future. The ONLY condition is the, one has to use name of Islam. All his action, past, current, planned , will be forgiven. He will become untouchable, people will present him as the sole glimpse of hope. If you happen to disagree you must be a Kafir, Elite, Fascist, Liberal.
@bhola
Your example of using the name of Islam for ulterior motives fits best on Taliban Khan. His colourful past is well known to all of us and now he is using the disguise of Islam and presents himelf as a clean shaved mouliv and of course supporter of Talibans and extremism. You are spot on anyone who disagrees with him is pro MQM, pro USA, pro West, liberal elite and fascist and Kafir.
@bho @ghost of tk @mbokhari @democrate
what useless discussion. have the courage to respond with counter-argument not just crap.
and when did you assume the responsibility of issuing character certificates?
@AClarionCall
did not mention you intentionally. you have proved yourself a psychiatric case in previous discussions
@Najam Syed
I have already mentioned Right wing extremists like you will label anyone anything as you have done for me. It does not surprise me an iota on your mental level; not only yours but also who on those who support extremism in this country. Honestly ask yourself and also the author of this garbage article on this question; Would you move to Swat with your family and live under Taliban extremists?
I know lots of people who send their kids to expensive English medium schools but shamelessly support Lal Masjid madarsa and Taliban brand of Islam. Some of them stopped talking with me when I asked them same above-mentioned question.
Surely actions speak louder than words.
@Najam Syed
You are also same as the author of this rubbish article. Why can’t you tolerate criticism and different viewpoint? Come on man! Have some courage to liten to others and enjoy life instead of calling others what you are yourself.
Long Live liberals of Pakistan
@Najam Syed
“..what useless discussion. have the courage to respond with counter-argument not just cr@p….”
I guess you forgot my name to bash but I am replying you anyway. Have you got the chance to go through all the comments above. Since Jun15, the day this article was posted, I asked a question from the author and his backers and repeated it at least 3 times in order to get an answer but got the similar response as always, i.e. N0 response to the question but a lot of bash1ng of being a liberal fasc1st. I don’t want to act like our old friend marh00m-o-maghf00r @babu fr0m usa and not g0nna repeat it again so being a courageous person, you will reply to me, I am d@mn sure
btw has anyone else noticed that since this war started, some people which I call barsati ma1ndak appear from no where to support tal1ban1mals and disappear to no where, never to be seen again. It looks like some one has found a way to use multiple ids to post their cr@p again and again using different nicks just to create an illus1on of having a big support. Just in this article, I see guys like @RA, @waw, @rashagreat, @usayd, @khanan, @ray meem, @kjat, @pervaz to name a few.
@zafar arain said:
@BHO
@democrate
@AClarionCall
“U guys always talk bul sht. All Army Generals are Liberal Extremist. who was Bush (Liberal Extrmist)”
Bush and liberal..LOL…. dear Mr. @zafar don’t open your beak without knowing the facts!!!! I’m so amazed even in this age of Google how could people make up their minds and force outlandish views on other based on their utter ignorance.
Ok let me tell you a secret, he was the most conservative american president in recent decades, doesn’t that make him fall in your category of people.
Bush was a fool… the one who follows a fool is ….. I think you already know this … About Bush so much stuff with real evidences is on youtube and internet … just type his name and you dont need to find specific foolish stuff..
here comes another liberal fascists, is he not better than Imran/ji and pktalibans, and particularly this stupid writer???
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jun2009-daily/17-06-2009/up78.gif
“Baitullah se ikhtelaf androon-e-mulk karwanion se hoa hai” qari zain-ul-abedeen.
Mr. Salahuddin you missed the most important point in your article, this criminal class is running this country from top to bottom for the last 62 years. The most mullah of this class was Zia ul Haq.
I grew up with his (my dad’s fellow army officer “uncle Zia’s”) kids, lived in the cantonment and went to school with them. I did not know when Convent (Christian) School going Annie (Kurrat-ul-Ain, his my age daughter), and Ninno (the elder one) went swimming in the garrison pool (remember Fort Colony) that they were liberal. I also did not know that girl chasing Moody (Ijaz ul-Haq with whom I went to La-Salle (Christian) High school) and Goga (Anwar-ul-Haq) we played cricket together were liberal. Ijaz went to FC College and to Washington DC for further studies (what a liberal). Uncle Zia was best friends with alcoholic King of Jordan. What a liberal.
This was just a little tid bit about our Mullah president. I could write a book on him perhaps. Please create another word for those who you are calling Pakistani Liberals. These are harami kalay desi Angrez bastards, a fringe made up of fake, fraud, false and phony wan a bees,(deep in their minds they wish they were white European Christians) with a lot of power due to mega ignorance of Pakistani masses.
excelent article… and shame on those who support foriegn invaders…. The only title they deserve is “faggets” or may be hypocrates…. I seriously doubt some of the commentaters in this forum muslims or pakistani.
It amazes me how ppl hate Islam in this message board… even christians wont say things that are being said here by so called muslims…. why are you ppl so scared of islam? what is it really? is it the justice system? or is it because it forbids you to sell your sisters and mothers? or is it because ir punishes you if you were aggressor? Its amazing….. I truly see pakistan going downward towards selfdestruction…. may ALLAH help us… or cleanse us from this nifaaaq.
On one hand there was Enlightened Moderation of Mush and I am sure there were only very few people who actually understood or endorsed his view. Certainly , not the common man on the street. Now on the other hand there is this Darkened conservatism of Taliboos and their desperate supporters. again not understood and endorsed by the common man on the street.
@Patroit
“excelent article… and shame on those who support foriegn invaders…. The only title they deserve is “faggets” or may be hypocrates…. I seriously doubt some of the commentaters in this forum muslims or pakistani.”
these are gems. Oh wait, wait, more are showering down
“…why are you ppl so scared of islam? what is it really? is it the justice system? or is it because it forbids you to sell your sisters and mothers? or is it because ir punishes you if you were aggressor?..”
Another courageous person, responding with a lot of reasoning
just like @Najam Syed
This so called Pakistani liberal class was created by the ruling colonial masters (White European Christians) to serve as a go between them and the ruled ignorant masses. This fringe of the fringe group was handed over the new country with its ignorant masses called Pakistan. For 62 years this so called liberal class has run this country as establishment and political leaders and fooled its ignorant masses. The result is a failed and dying state that we see today.
I am not liberal but I want all Taliban to be killed so that people can live their lives.
Majority of you do wear Shalwar , dont you? And if you do, I am sure you all had that moment when you really really really need to …. you know , and the knot wont let you. What do you do? wet you Shalwar ? no no no
you secretly use your teeth. Talian are such a knot, either TALK to the knot and wet your Shalwar or use your teeth.
@bhola jigar…. define Taliban?
Inculcated by education and the surrounding culture is this deep self hatred in the subconscious of this liberal class. This fringe yet very powerful class despises everything original about it. They desperately desire to become and appear westernized. They are always willing to serve and oblige people of western white Christian countries.
@Patriot
Ok Talib is NOT the one who has a beard, wears a topi or Pagrri, says his prayers, goes to Madrassa, or a school or whatever, doesnt and cant speak English, French, Spanish , hates West/America, dislikes mixed marathons, catwalks ( well may like to watch catwalks secretly but doesnt see them as Enlightened moderation) , invites others to be religious, has never been educated in St Marry’s or Joseph or whatever St school, doesnt thing that Jihad is forbidden word or deed, would like to have an Islamic society. Thats what most Pakistanis are as far as I know. They are not Talibban.
Now can you se the difference between a common Pakistani and Taliban?
PS: tell me the similarities between Hayate Sahaba and Hayate Taliban
@ bhola
Hayate Sahaba was for the welfare of humanity.
Hatate Taliban is for destruction of humanity.
Itna bhi nahee pata, waqye aap bholay ho.
@Patriot
“why are you ppl so scared of islam?”
No Muslim is afriad of Islam, but yes we are scared from fanatics who labeled other as non-Muslims and blow them up by killing themselves, does following excerpts from above posted comments make you realize who these fanatics are?
“I seriously doubt some of the commentaters in this forum muslims or pakistani.”
Could you please explain me one simple fact, if I don’t support killing innocent people, does that make me a non-muslim, and if i’m non-muslim (God forbid) does that makes me non-Pakistani?
http://jang.com.pk/jang/jun2009-daily/17-06-2009/up78.gif
Now this guy doesn’t not support killing inside Pakistan, does he also not meet your criteria of a Muslim/Pakistan? should he be sent a khudkush zombie just like Dr Sarfaz Naeemi or Mualna Hassan Jaan?
@Patriot
“why are you ppl so scared of islam?”
Ask yourself. Nobody is scared of Islam, but look at what is happening. You have to address the following issues.
Suicide bombing.
Sectarianism.
Articles such as the one above.
Intolerance.
Live in West, but hate it at the same time.
Interference into people’s personal lives.
People doing these things are doing it in the name of Islam. Don’t these things distort the image of Islam.
@shimatoree
i’m not quite sure what you mean…. firstly i thought i was being unbiased.. and i condemned the govt for its role in the mess..
secondly you yourself have said that it would have been impossible to fight the militants using covert tactics hence leaving no alternative but the current operation…
and i don;t think you yourself seriously believe that the militants would have quietly put down their weapons and taken up knitting nice woolen cardigans instead if the ‘peace’ talks had continued…
finally.. no matter how bad the liberal extremists may be for the country (and i agree the people you mean are bad for the country) …they are not slitting throats, blowing up mosques and using children as live ammo…. nothing justifies that… not religion, not nationalism, nothing….. you cannot parley with such people…
@AClarionCall
Your question : Would you move to Swat with your family and live under Taliban extremists?
My answer : No man. I am not even willing to live in Pakistan.
Now what do you want to prove here. enlighten me.
@ bechari-awam
before pointing fingers at others, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME UP WITH YOUR ORIGINAL NAME. I bet you are not bechari-awam. You have been to a school and now have the luxury of internet (assuming you r in Pakistan).
Real Bechari Awam is dying of hunger and deprived of basic human rights. People like you claim to be their representative. tsk tsk tsk!!!
@Najam Syed
“..before pointing fingers at others, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME UP WITH YOUR ORIGINAL NAME. I bet you are not bechari-awam. You have been to a school and now have the luxury of internet (assuming you r in Pakistan)….”
If I reveal my name would you please then answer my question or would try to bring some other lame excuse to dodge the question. Alhamdulillah I have been to school/college/university and consider myself a part of behcari awam no matter what I become. I don’t physically live in Pakistan anymore but my soul is still there.
why is it so hard to answer a sane question!!
OK to make your life easier, as an example, personally if I find myself in a situation that I have to concede defeat because of the fact that I was on the wrong side of the aisle, I accept it wholeheartedly provided I am convinced that I was wrong and I never try to make it a matter of my ego.
@ bhola
“Ok Talib is NOT the one who has a beard, wears a topi or Pagrri, says his prayers, goes to Madrassa, or a school or whatever, doesnt and cant speak English, French, Spanish , hates West/America, dislikes mixed marathons, catwalks ( well may like to watch catwalks secretly but doesnt see them as Enlightened moderation) , invites others to be religious, has never been educated in St Marry’s or Joseph or whatever St school, doesnt thing that Jihad is forbidden word or deed, would like to have an Islamic society. Thats what most Pakistanis are as far as I know. They are not Talibban.”
You have very aptly described a common Pakistani and I fully agree with you. But this is also a fact that taliban do have a lot of popular support among common Pakistanis. Most people would not agree with their methods but still would not disagree with their core ideology. That is the dilemma facing our nation today.
Pakistanis have never been extremists but they have also never been secular. Pakistani society has always been a moderate Muslim society. In this society, maulvi has always enjoyed a degree of respect but never a status of leadership. It is a society that does not consider music as haram but looks down upon alcoholics. We Pakistanis always had good relations with most non-muslim countries but also considered all muslims as our brothers.
It was the disastrous reign of Parvez Musharraf that destroyed the balance of our society. By providing support to american war on afghanistan and by making drinking and womanizing our new state religion he totally alienated a large segment of the population. As a result, moderate voices went into background and the number of extremists swelled. Episodes like the Lal Masjid massacre and sale of our fellow Pakistani men, women and children for a few dollars to americans have left long lasting scars on the psyche of the nation. Many people reached the conclusion that if our destiny is to be ruled by extremists, then these extremists better be religious than secular. This is why many people still cannot make themselves condemn taliban even when they don’t like them, simply because they find the secular ruling elite even more abhoring.
It is not possible to continue the policies of musharraf and think that we can root out religious extremism. We will just keep on producing more and more extremists. Our only way out of this morass is to shun all sorts of extremists (secular and religious) and change our national policies. Unless this happens, no operation against taliban can be successful. They will simply blend into sympathetic civilian population and start a guerilla war.
MQM are the extremists – even more violent and more destructive than any other extremists….
@tahir001
Could i have your email address to contact you. Thanks in advance.
@Adonis
“Pakistanis have never been extremists but they have also never been secular”
Who told you this that Pakistanis have never been secular? I assume you were born after 1970’s. My own father turned from a movie going, happy go lucky card player on the round-abouts of Karachi to one of Zia’s ardent disciples. Now he’s back to being a happy-go lucky movie going card player, partly because he live in the States and partly becuase he has grand kids.
Pakistan before 1977 was very different from what it is today. The Islamicization picked up steam after the 1973 constitution and was in full swing in your favorite dictator’s era, Marde Momin, Fifth Khalifa of Muslim Ummah, Zia-ul-Batin (Mardud, Khuda uss ko jehanum mein bhi na jaga dey).
“It was the disastrous reign of Parvez Musharraf that destroyed the balance of our society..”
Let me tweak that a little. “It was the disastrous reign of Pervez Mushe that ‘further’ destroyed what was left of a crowd that was struggling to become a society.” Nawaz Sharif wasn’t doing us any favors by trying to become Ameer-ul-Momineen (thanks to the Senate for blocking that power play).
@Najam Syed
hmm. you dont know what he’s trying to prove there?
in order to make it simpler: wherever it is you live mr. najam syed, tell me this – would you have a militant force impose their way of life on you using guns etc.
May I ask one simple thing from this guy who is accusing liberal people of fascism
When peace accord was reached with Taliban why did they not honour the accord and why did they go in Buner area. What right these so called rightist have to force their will on people of Pakistan. If they are truly fighting Americans in Afghanistan then why are they doing such things which is leading to destabilization of Pakistan by conducting suicide bombing, killing their dissenters and ruthlessly imposing their will on the weak and vulnerable of the society namely the women and children by slitting their throats, by digging up graves and taking the dead out and hanging them by ropes on the trees. Did liberal fascits did that.
These so called Taliban first complained that Americans left Pakistan in lurch in 1988 when Soviets left Afghanistan and deliberately brought in Osama bin Laden and gave him refuge and allowed him to conduct terrorism all over the world and then refused to hand him over despite that for just one man meaning Osama bin Laden – nearly 1000000 Iraqis have been killed, Afghanistan has been reduced to rubble and nearly 1.2 million people have been made refugees.
This guy – can he given any suggestions what was the alternative. Come on guy tell me the alternative – why do these Taliban so called leaders ask their family members to become suicide bombers – why are these capitalizing on poverty and helplessness of poor people by taking their kids out and training them as suicide bombers.
We should take the example of Sri Lanka – for thirty years they have been ravaged by Tamil terrorists but they did not give up and today finally they are wiped out. It is very simple. If you expect refuge from a bully you are mistaken. He would get you and get you ruthlessly. Taliban extremists are bullies and they are ruthless.
And same in Karachi – these MQM guy are other face of Taliban – liberal fascist terrorist. Imran Khan should not support Taliban because THEYHAVE KILLED PAKISTANIS ruthlessly whatever their motive might be.
So all those saying that action should not have been taken against Taliban are totally sitting in fantasy world thinking that by not taking action and by negogiating things would have been changed. No if you negogiate with Taliban you are creating another version of MQM in North West province.
The government has a long list of follies and the latest one is to oppose the acquittal of Nawaz Sharif from PIA hijacking case in Supreme Court. These guys have really gone nuts.
In above blog I had meant to say that Taliban never recuirt bombers from their family members but exploit poor people and use them to donate their children for killing by suicide bombers.
@chussain
“..This guy – can he given any suggestions what was the alternative. Come on guy tell me the alternative …”
Good luck on that. Now you will be labeled l1beral fascist, US/Brit/Canadian/Zion1st/Indian/Nato/Russian etc agent but no solution.
hahahaha…… typical pakis here… what have we done besides debating on controversies for past 60 years. Most ppl here dont even live in Pakistan… our baatian aisey kerni hain jessey its affecting them directly… its easier to talk the talk than walking the walk….
For all so called Pakistanis and in general Muslims: quite talking and do some actions…. these post are nothing but bunch of words which really are not going to do any good to YOU ….. Nations who dont make their own decisions TIME makes their decisions…
majority of ppl here in this board are time pass… They dont care even if entire pakistan is even nuked… as long as them and thier own property is safe…. we are not a nation but bunch of selfish individuals…. unless this attitude doesnt change… nothing else will change… we will be lead by extreme forces forever.
@Patriot,
And what are you doing other then “time passing” on this site?
@ patriot
hahahaha.
you’re so uninspiring and so is your call for action.
@Patriot
Man, what an speech. You even kicked Obama’s a$$.
@Adonis
Thanks for you detailed response. This is a long discussion if Pakistanis are secular or religious and in my opinion majority of Pakistanis are religious and would prefer a religious rather than secular Pakistan. People can disagree but thats what I think.
But thats not the point. The point is , whatever Pakistanis want, its their right to decide for themselves as individuals. Thats why I say that I am not liberal but I hate Taliban. My friend you are wrong to suggest that there is public support for Taliban , for their core cause. They are a group of thugs and should be treated like ones. If they use the name off Islam that shouldn’t give them any immunity.
The debate of secularists and religious views is centuries old in the sub-continuant. The secularists Muslims in pre-partition India accepted the Hindu majority and voted for secular India and even stayed behind there. However, majority of Muslims were in favour of separate Muslim homeland- where they can live an Islamic way of life. On that basis Pakistan came into existence.
If this is not correct- then were our forefathers wrong- who supported the movement for independent country for Muslims in the sub-continent. If the secularists want us to live an un-Islamic life here- then was it not better for us to have opposed a separate country and stayed behind in a secular India.
@WAW
Secularists by definition do not want you to live any other kind of life than the one you chose…
all those evil conniving secularists want is that the state not impose any single ideology on the people so the people have the right to conduct their personal matters as they see fit provided it does not cause any harm to the society in which they live.
Some so called supporters of Taliban ideology are now taking discussion to another dimension. These bunch of congenital hypothyroids, herein called cretins cant even understand what these Takfeeris renamed as Taliban want,…… Something which event a matriculate student also understands. A simply ordinary Pakistani on street, hates Taliban for they have done and what they are doing,…. and if still these Takfeeri supporters feel that they need to hug Taliban, then what I or millions other like me, say except to show our middle finger to these lunatics
@bechari-awam
you question : what was the alternative of military operation (Although you did not put this question to me)
My answer : Counter Insurgency Operation. ISI & Intelligence agency operation for intel and Special Services Group to take out the rogue elements. I hope you are living in a civilized country now and you are aware of HUMAN RIGHTS.
Now my question to you. Are you sure that this operation is not perpetuating the problem of extremism.
@AliQ
Where in my post you found out that I am supporting extremism. and not just this article but try searching my previous comments and find one comment supporting extremism.
I guess you are bechari-awam with another ID. lol
Hum hein Pakistani Hum Tou Jeetaien Gaay -
Bil Akhir Hukumraan Hum Ko Manien Gaay -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2009/06/090620_lal_masjid_na.shtml
English Speaking Class of this country only for discussion like this forum or in AC Room/Hall Discussion this above is called — Actions are Louder than Speech.
Another BS article that makes the claim that somehow its in America’s best interest to have religious fanatics run amock in Pakistan. Fanatics that want nothing else but to destroy American forces and have a brutal version of Islam imposed on the rest of Pakistan. America always have and will meddle in Pakistani affairs. That’s nothing new. But does America’s meddling mean that we should let these thugs have a free rein in the country? How does it help America, India or any other foreign entity to have these fanatics in charge of Pakistan. Oh no wait, what you’re saying is they just want to forment this violence to create a situation so that their forces can come in and take away our nuclear weapons. And what may I ask will happen after our nuclear weapons are gone? Will the threat to America, India or other entities stop after these fanatics are in control minus the nuclear weapons? I dont think Afghanistan had nuclear weapons when 9/11 happened. You don’t need nuclear weapons to cause havoc and destruction. A destabilized state is all these fanatics need so they can run their training camps and create more suicide bombers. shoe bombers etc.
These right wing nut jobs have no capacity to think logically. Just blame everything on America and India and all will be good. 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy, Mumbai attacks was an Indian conspiracy, every suicide attack is an American, Indian, Israeli blah blah consiracy. It’s never our own people killing us, always some external hand. I’m so sick and tired of listening to these ignorant nut cases that I just want to bash my head on the wall. hOW THE HECK WILL US HAVE CONTROL OF PAKISTAN WHEN BAITULLAH MEHSUD IS RUNNING THE COUNTRY!! He’s an American man you say? Well surely we must fight him then! What’s your problem with us fighting American stooges? Is he an Indian agent? Well no problem, we must eliminate him even more quickly. If Baitullah is not an American stooge and is just fiighting against American hegemony then he should be in Afghanistan not Pakistan. By killing Pakistanis he’s destabilizing the very thing that you say that he’s trying to save. Get real, please stop writing this nonsense. We’re fighting against people who want to take over our country and nothing else. They will not stop at Waziristan, Swat or NWFP. They have tasted power and no one ever gave up power willingly. The more we give, the more they will take. I just hope they come after writers like these for commiting unIslamic acts for writing in english. The infidels language.
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