l MEaN AT THEIR BEST | Pakistan Politics
{ 29 comments... read them below or add one }

  • Blackhawk12 said:

    Army must be held accountable to their wrong deeds and should be taught a lesson to remind there Place in Pakistan. How we can do it? Hang Musharaf along with his collaborators….but wait zaradari can’t do it so wait for some one who can take on these spoiled Generals

  • zaheer said:

    - Well Pakistan Army is not free of mistakes and of course does not consists of angels, they are human beings and can commit mistakes like anyone else.

    - One should not forget other three major groups along with Army who contributed to the problems of Pakistan i.e. Religious group, Judiciary and Politicians.

    - It is true that Pakistan Army has been the most organized, managed and disciplined institute of Pakistan and it will be like that INSHALLAH. The main setback that Pakistan Army got was because of corrupt, stupid and incompetent heads. Army was in general lead by such persons but i feel that this trend has changed and Army has learned a lot especially in last decade! Pakistan has been ruled by the incompetent and corrupt leaders in general unfortunately!

    - We should not forget that not only the creation of Pakistan but its protection have not been the simple things. Pakistan was created beside extremely huge opposition! To create a country in the name of Islam was not a child play in a world where Muslims were so weak and other forces were so strong. In addition to that our enemies never left us without pressures, conspiracies against us and all other possible ways to destroy us, but we have been surviving Alhamdulillah and we will INSHALLAH. Role of Pakistan Army can never be undermined in this context, it has been a source of fear for our enemies and it will stay so INSHALLAH.

    - Our enemies know that if they want to conquer Pakistan then they have to break Pakistan Army so they are trying their best on all fronts to do so including propaganda campaign. Like any other institution there are black sheeps inside Army as natural phenomenon and such people are normally most difficult to handle. There are people who are trying from inside too to weaken Pak Army but they are in minority and INSHALLAH can never achieve their dirty goals. People of a specific sect are very dangerous and active especially these days, and they must be kept under strong vigilance and monitoring. Many people of this sect prefer another country(that country is not S. Arabia) than Pakistan!!!

    - It is true that Pakistan Army gets big amount of money and resources but there is no other option, we have to keep our defense stronger enough to counter all threats which are not small ones. This is what our religion also tells us but at the same time it is responsibility of Army too that they take as much as is required and abandon all those things which are unnecessary! This they can better judge according to situation.

    - Army does need to intervene into politics unnecessarily but they can’t live as spectators too, they have right to convey their concerns and should keep an eye on the internal happenings of the country; this is responsibility of every Pakistani!

    - People of Pakistan start believing whatever is told them and forget so many positive contributions due to propaganda. Like in this article actions of couple of people are being projected as if whole Army is like that! Our society in general is so corrupt, we are not ready to give sacrifice for the right, we only look for our personal gains and that trend also needs to change. Everybody has got to change his/her own self too if we want any positive change. We have to stop cheating and corruption which has become a common and accepted phenomenon in our society. Why do we want that Pakistan Army must be like angels but we we don’t change our own selves?!

    - Pakistan Army is backbone of Pakistan, please don’t forget that and also don’t forget their so many sacrifices and blood that they gave for Pakistan!

  • anna said:

    Well done Mr.Aneel Salman .
    your article is like ” Sumnder ko Kozay main Bun kerdiya hai “.
    Nobody can ever Justify the way Army ruled this poor country .
    I also blame politicians like Z.A Bhutto , BB & Asif Zerdari , who after coming to rule Pakistan with the power of Election ( even if it is rigged by the same Army intelligence) but they also let these Armed Culprits to go free without any accountability.The recent case is of giving “guard of honor” to a criminal Dictator Musharraf .
    you can see that no accountability of these two “Men At Their Best ” will take place & the result will be more such brutal incidents .
    If ever a Civilian will beat a “Jawan ” in such a manner One can imagine what the whole institution of Army will do .
    You can recall the incident of Dr. Shazia maltreated by Capt.. Hammad & the way prominent Politician Sardar Akbar Bughti was killed by Col.Salam .It was not blurred from our memory that Z.A.Bhutto made a historical & nearly impossible deal to let POW out from Indian Jails but see how the army as , an institution, PAY BACK him .
    They toppled him , they arrested him , implicated him falsely & then killed him after he refused to sign on a document prepared by Army intelligence.
    One can feel that after Bhutto the Country was free for Army Janta to do whatever they wanted to do & now here we are …harvesting what the Army of our own land , whom we Feed by our Sweat & our Blood , sow just after toppling popular civilian political government.
    So whom we Blamed?? if not these so called sons of the Nations who fought three wars & Lost all wars & who Ruled their own Nation under the barrel of a gun for 32 years without any justification.
    I have in my memories as a 13 years old girl nothing but Lashes & Gallows awarded by army tribunals , Heroin drug & KK was introduced by these Men at their Best & they are the one who made Pakistan ” the Nation at its WORST “.
    I am sorry for those Jawans of army who are scarifying their life while fighting against the genuine terrorists , i am sorry !! coz these terrorists were not “made ” by any of civilian governments neither they Planted them in intelligence agencies , nor the civilians are ever giving Hideout to these terrorists .
    These were “KARNAMAS ” of our own Generals & they are responsible for the useless killings of our Young Jawans … if any of army Jawans had a courage just like shown by CJ of Pakistan , the Nation might not be faced such huge crises as we are facing now.
    Still I don’t know if they have learned any lesson from their misdeed .
    I suggest that their Staff colleges curriculum & the way they got Training should be Curtailed & they should be taught that without Awaam they are “NOTHING ” . They should respect Awaam becoz its the People of Pakistan who are their employer & not USA !!!!

  • freemason said:

    While individual acts of misconduct, indiscipline and corruption should be exposed, condemned and all efforts should be made to prosecute such elements at the right forum, I would strongly protest this web forum turning into an institutional bashing forum against the armed forces of the country. It is inappropriate and the admin should not allow themselves to degrade themselves to such a level where they turn against the INSTITUTION of the armed forces.

  • majidkhan said:

    ONLY 1 QUESTION……………………IF POLITICIANS CANT RULE PRECISELY AND SET PAKISTAN @THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE…………..START LOOTING AS ALWAYS………….NO GOVERNANCE………PEOPLE DONT HAVE COURAGE TO COME OUTSIDE AND IF THEY COMES THEN LOT OF JAIL BHARO SYSTEM AND LATHI CHARGE…………….IF THERE IS NO REVOLUTION……..OR REVOLUTIONARY LEADER IN TOWN……………..WHO ELSE WILL COME TO SAFE………………THE ONLY OPTION IS ARMY………………OTHERWISE U HAVE A VERY GOOD OPTION OF CHINA,INDIA,AFGHANISTAN AND IRAN TO TAKE OVER……………………BEAURUCRACY AND POLITICIANS ALWAYS CREATES SITUATION FOR ARMY AND BEG FOR HELP…………………..SO COME WITH PROPER SOLUTION MR.WRITER RATHER CRITSCIZING IN NEWYORK OUR MOSTLY RESPECTFULL INSTITUTION………..IF ANYBODY HAS COURAGE THEN COME TO PAKISTAN AND START FIGHTING WITH THE SYSTEM…………..

  • zaheer said:

    one correction in above post

    please read

    “- Army does need to intervene into politics unnecessarily but they can’t live as spectators too,… ”

    as

    “- Army does NOT need to intervene into politics unnecessarily but they can’t live as spectators too,…”

  • anna said:

    @ freemason

    Sir ! Where were u when Zia was insulting people of Pakistan by insulting their representatives & telling the Media without any shame ” Yeh sysatdan Kya Hain , ager main Siti Bajaaoon yeh meray pechay dum hilatay chalay ain gay”….
    If they can insult People of Pakistan why not we can show them the mirror after all we are paying their BILLS !!!

  • zaheer said:

    @anna

    “Sir ! Where were u when Zia was insulting people of Pakistan by insulting their representatives & telling the Media without any shame ” Yeh sysatdan Kya Hain , ager main Siti Bajaaoon yeh meray pechay dum hilatay chalay ain gay”….”

    Well, he was true in his remarks as our politicians have been, in general, quite corrupt, power hungry, greedy, shameless, liars and coward! I don’t agree to most of the things done by Zia but still again i have to say that most of the heads of Army had been incompetent and not very intelligent!

    “If they can insult People of Pakistan why not we can show them the mirror after all we are paying their BILLS !!!”

    Don’t try to make one sided conclusions from few mishaps that Army is insulting civilians! They are not doing it for your bills as highest goal, rather they are doing it for Allah Almighty, Pakistan and Pakistanis! They are not our servants they are our brothers and sisters, be clear!!!

  • shosal said:

    A total crap article. Waste of time and for having cheap publicity.

  • shosal said:

    Its just like the old son we hear everyday that USA is behind every mess . Now Army is behind every mess. If you have guts why don’t you stop them. Our people do nothing whenever there is military coup, from Ayub to Musharaf , remind me when did this nation protested for the governments overthrown by Army. And what this democratic govt is doing now???.
    They cant even govern their own people. Grow up and be sensible.

  • shosal said:

    *song

  • JanuJerman Khan said:

    Shosal,

    don’t you follow retired army officers’ interviews and views regarding american interference in our establishment?

    for example see here what Brig Imtiaz says during an interview with BBC

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2009/07/090721_brig_imtiaz_interview_1_zs.shtml

  • shosal said:

    Thats the point i am trying to make, if you cannot stand against them then stop blaming each other. If our people (politicains , generals etc) are so coward then stop the blame game. Everyone is corrupt.

  • JanuJerman Khan said:

    shosal

    right, the problem is when we are in good position and are enjoying life we like the status quo to continue, but as soon as we get dropped out we start blaming ;)

    Blaming is fine if one should work to correct while he is in position, but of course we want to play safe and avoid creating problem for ourselves.

    And even if one is good and tries to correct, he will be left out of the “network” and isolated, not get promotion as punishment and no one will ever know about those!!!

  • zaheer said:

    @JanuJerman Khan

    “right, the problem is when we are in good position and are enjoying life we like the status quo to continue, but as soon as we get dropped out we start blaming ;)

    That is true to a good extent! It is habit of our people that they want to have good life always no matter how much does it cost to others.

    “Blaming is fine if one should work to correct while he is in position, but of course we want to play safe and avoid creating problem for ourselves.”

    There is no use of taking unnecessary pains but our problem in general is that we only give sacrifice if we are forced and option less! We normally don’t react if other people are in problem! This culture needs to be changed, we must stand for the right and truth irrespective of personal gains or loss, that is the solution.

    “And even if one is good and tries to correct, he will be left out of the “network” and isolated, not get promotion as punishment and no one will ever know about those!!!”

    It is true in general but brother the point is that if we will not stand against this negative flow and oppression then who will do that? These are the people who can change it and we have to give sacrifice to change it otherwise it will remain like that! If a corrupt person is not stopped then he will keep on moving freely to disturb the people and system! We have to understand the point that if we fight for the right then it is beneficial for ALL.

  • JanuJerman Khan said:

    zaheer sb,

    as an individual, easy to say sacrifice, but difficult to achieve but if lead from the top -i mean leadership in a society- then the change can be witnessed rather quickly

    We as a nation have been deprived of genuine leadership, we are given nationalistic leaders, clan leaders, constituency leaders, but never given creative ideological leaders who could solve people problems.

    Our region consists of dozens of nations/ethnicities and each believes they have been deprived of their resources and others have colonized them. These ethnicities were united under slogan of Islam, but later many were betrayed.

    I still believe a genuine leader could solve problem if he revive the ideology that united people 50 years ago under one banner. But this time only slogan wouldn’t work, clear and pure implementation would be required.

  • anna said:

    @ Zaheer

    sorry brother !! if my words hurt your feelings , but can u deny that it was not awaam but our own “brothers ” who were calling us ” SAVAGES ” during Ayub /Moosa /Yehayha era.
    I remember my self Saluting our uniformed men but it was LONG TIME AGO !!!
    Then came Zia era & I found this ” SIDE ” of the institution .
    I was unfortunate to came to this knowledge very late & its may be becoz I was quite a small girl & didn’t know about the hell loosing on East Pakistan & Balochistan by our own forces….
    I don’t believe in a BIASED attitude towards our forces … But What ‘s Wrong is Wrong …..
    yes ! you are right about their sacrifices but actually in Pakistan the Civilian sacrifices outnumbered our force’s.
    I think I made my point but still if my words do any offense to any of the Officer or Jawan …I am sorry for that …

  • JanuJerman Khan said:

    anna

    but can you deny that this culture of looking down at civilians as “bloody civilians” was indoctrinated during british rule?

    soldiers were “gentlemen” who got trained on how to eat, drink, sit, talk, walk like “gentleman” in academies, how could they love the ignorant savages who were resisting to glorious imperial rule of great britain

    many of those brit traditions are still preserved in pak army.

  • JanuJerman Khan said:

    and by the way thanks for your hint on age ;)

  • anna said:

    @ JanuJerman Khan said:
    and by the way thanks for your hint on age

    No Problem !! thats what we need today some ” Blunt Truth ” !!

  • linkwheel said:

    A Lawyer told me a Short Story tht how and why his Brother Killed a Army Officier in His Hotel well he told me tht a Army Officer in Unifrom stopped by at his Brother’s hotel For Lunch but he started to Abuse and Curse him and his Family Because he didn’t Liked the Food and he was the Only 1 Complaining but when The hotel owner told him not to abuse or curse his Mother he started beating him so the hotel owner grabed his Gun and Shot The Officer he fired 5 bullet’s and i guess he did the Right thing because Army is the Defence and pride of a Nation but when they start to Impose their Power’s on Civilian’s it can be Diasterous because Protection of Civilian’s are their Duty.

    But they think tht Civilian’s are Whores and they are suppose to F**k them.

  • zaheer said:

    @anna

    “sorry brother !! if my words hurt your feelings , but can u deny that it was not awaam but our own “brothers ” who were calling us ” SAVAGES ” during Ayub /Moosa /Yehayha era.”

    I am unaware if something like that happened and how many people were involved in it and what exactly happened because facts are also twisted! If something like that happened then it is fully condemnable.

    “I remember my self Saluting our uniformed men but it was LONG TIME AGO !!!”
    It is still not as bad as you mentioned! I think now situation is more realistic and getting better!

    “Then came Zia era & I found this ” SIDE ” of the institution .”

    Many acts of Zia were wrong, i think but it is not black or white thing, there are many factors always.

    “I was unfortunate to came to this knowledge very late & its may be becoz I was quite a small girl & didn’t know about the hell loosing on East Pakistan & Balochistan by our own forces….”

    Loss of East Pakistan happened because of mistake of many people including Army head but it does not mean that whole institution or only Army was responsible for that. What do you mean by loosing on Balochistan? It is not lost or do you want that Ms. Anna?

    “I don’t believe in a BIASED attitude towards our forces … But What ’s Wrong is Wrong …..”
    Biasing is still possible! Yes, wrong is wrong but conclusions should not be drawn so quickly and on the basis of only few facts!

    “yes ! you are right about their sacrifices but actually in Pakistan the Civilian sacrifices outnumbered our force’s.”
    There are no statistics available in this regard! Both Army soldiers and Civilians gave sacrifices for Pakistan, and both are Muslims(majority) and Pakistani!

    “I think I made my point but still if my words do any offense to any of the Officer or Jawan …I am sorry for that …”

    :) …don’t worry and be happy.

  • zaheer said:

    @linkwheel

    Your story can be true and can be a forgery too. If something like that happened then it is fully unacceptable! If it really happened still it does not mean that whole institution was involved in it!

  • bebus said:

    @Zaheer

    I agree with your comments. The problem with us is that we have become a nation of “Story Listening and Story Gharni”. A person tells a mangharat story to an other person. That person adds Mirch Masala to that story and tells it to many others. Others add their Mirch Masala and tell many others. In this way stories start roaming in the society. No one ever asks about the origin or authenticity of the story but the story telling and story listening goes on and on and on……. (se the example of Javed Chowdhry, TV anchor, with his funny / stupid stories)

    Just talk to any person, he will start tellng you stories. Isn’t it foolish?

  • Anum Moeen said:

    crap article

  • shoaib aslam said:

    Guyzzz

    One should try to understand, How these Generals becomes traitors when they get Four stars on thier applets? Although all of them once were patriotic soldiers of their beloved country of Pakistan…

    I n my view the one should blame on the whole syatem.. These Generals are the products of the system they dont just appear from the sky…

    We as new generation shoulde stsart thinking about changing the system from basic,, from our homes from our streets, from our towns…

    Be critical to urselves and ask… What have we given to the Pakistan or what Pakistan have took from us? so why cry over it???

  • Pardesi_patriot said:

    Let’s take a quick look at what we civilian have sacrificed for them by paying 1/3 of our budget portion and in return what we got in 60 yrs from the army.

    The Tribal ppl fought a war and won us a good portion of Kashmir. Do we still retain the same area. The answer is no we lost many check posts including Kargil used to be in our control back in 1948.

    The army oppression resulted in East Pak to become Bangladesh! now God forbid what’s happening in Balochistan. If pak-afghan border would have properly been monitored by army no foreign forces can intervene. We are always pointing fingers to others for conspiracy but not willing to overcome our weaknesses.

    I don’t think any individual could be blamed for these mistakes, it’s overall institution responsibility and they have to be blamed for these blunders.

    By the grace of Allah we are now nuclear power so there’s no need to spend huge portion of our budget pie on this institution (monster). There will be more adventures (like kargil) keep happening after all they should have some good reason to keep increasing the defense budget for survival of the real pakistanis (half million army plus their dependent families) living in cantonments and DHA.

    take care.

  • khurram shah said:

    DONT ACCUSE PAKISTAN ARMY
    JUST NAME THE PERSONS
    OR IF U DONT KNOW NAMES THEN JUST SAY SOME GENERALS

  • khurram shah said:

    WHAT SUGGESTS ARMY TO TAKE OVER??
    AND HOW EASILY THEY DO IT??
    NOBODY EVER TRIED TO STOP THEM??
    JUST BLAMES AND BLAMES AND BLAMES ON EACH OTHER???
    THERE ARE WEAKNESSES EVERYWHERE
    WE NEED TO WORK ON IT
    PUTTING BLAMES ON EACH OTHER COULD ONLY DEEPEN THE WEAKNESSES!!!

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