The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible from the president of PaKistan who is also the Supreme Commandor Of Pakistan Military. This notification will prevent him from taking any unconstitutional act because the new army chief will not support his step and we may protect our country from another martial law.
کیا کہ رہے ہو بھائی! ادھر حکومت کے لالے پڑے ہوئے ہیں اور آپ آرمی چیف کو جیل میں ڈالنے کی بات کر رہے ہیں. شاید آپکو یاد نہیں کہ فوج نے تو یحییٰ خان جیسے کتوں کو بھی گارڈ آف آنر دیکر اور قومی پرچم میں لپیٹ کر دفن کیا تھا
I beleive rules are rules…. so 3 years are up and he should let go otherwise we will not get out of the favoritism that has ruled our country since the independence. So, whoever is senior most must take his place.
Koi Kehta hai pakistan ka nam change kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se islam khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se molvi khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se masjad khatam kar do koi kehta hai masjad se speaker khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se deen khatam kar do koi kehta hai gharat ka nam khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se jihad khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se ……………………. her kisi ki bi man lain gay to kahain gay pakistan khatam kar do….. Main kehta hoon Saab Naam Nihaad Muheb e watan ko kahatm kar do SAAB THEEK HO JAY GA INSHALLAH ………………….. Jind Pakistan
JAN PAKISTAN
LOVE PAKISTAN
LIFE PAKISTAN
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD
PAKISTAN PAINDABAD
GHADAR KO SIRF MOAT WO BI SAR E AAM CHOWK K ANDAR MINAR E PAKISTAN SE DHAKKA DO IN GHADAROON KO AWARA OARTAAN DE GHADAR BACHEY
As far as the issue on army chief is concerned, Im sure I heard Moshe say somewhere that he had shuffled the high ranking Army officials so that his interest would remain protected even if he was removed. Pakistan has suffered from the hands of the generals over the years. It seems to as if the whole promotional and ranking mechanism including current army elliet need investigating to see how many of them are loyal to Pakistan and how many are loyal to foriegn masters.
After a through investigation those who are found corrupt and brainwashed like moshe, they should be removed to allow for fresh promotions. As such, there cant be any harm in letting Qiyqni (who is so far so good) run a little longer. After all, extending his tenure would be with in the constitution, would it not? Qiyani is tried and tested.
Gen Kayani was Mushy’s most loyal pet and was hand picked due to his traitor services. This traitor stooge must be dismissed and brought to justice on all the crimes he committed with Mushy.
I am getting very concerned about the ability of the PKP people to come up with the most basic questions in any intelligent way. One after other they are keep putting up silly questions like little kids and insulting the readers abilities.
Ok young man, when someone finishes their job, what should be their fate.
Should they be Killed?
Should they be given a big retirement party and acknowledged for their hard work?
Should they be given a nice retirement package and allow them to be whatever they chose to be after their retirement within the laws of the land?
There must be laws about the retired army officers to be able to work in some capacity as advisors or consultants.
I am utterly confused by this oxymoronic logic.
Are you applying that Pakistani Army Chiefs are some special breed and must be treated differently than another Pakistani government servant?
wel written , these ghaddar should be kicked out of country.
GENERAL KIYANI IS DOING fantastic job, he is cleaning taliban rubbish, so he should be given extension untill a single jahil talib is finished from the country even earth.
LONG LIVE GENERAL KIYANI, YOU ARE TRUE PAKISTANI, WE ADMIRE UR EFFORTS.
well said ali bhae.
Pakistan is all we have. Pakistan was created for Islam, if you want a secular Pakistan
you are denying the very purpose of creation of this great country.
Right now, I have -1000 trust in civil leadership.
At such a time, I don’t think it is wise to let these traitors decide our NEXT in command General.
I want someone loyal to Pakistan, to Muslims, to people of Pakistan, to decide this, not people like Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, ANP, MQM, PPP and people like them.
THEY ARE ALL!! TRAITORS!!!
Their past and their present PROVES it AGAIN and AGAIN
بھر حال جو ہونا ہے وہ تو ہمارے اختیار مے ہے نہیں . البتہ … ایک دلچسپ بات جو کیانی صاحب کے حق میں جاتی ہے وہ یہ ہے کہ کیانی صاحب آخری جرنیل ہیں جنہوں نے امریکا سے تربیت حاصل کی ہے … ان کے بعد آنے والے سبھی لوگ وہ ہیں جن کی تعلیم و تربیت کے وقت ہم پر پابندیاں لگی ہوی تھیں … تو مسلہ یہ ہے کہ ان کے بعد کون آے کیسا ہو گا وغیرہ وغیرہ کی بحث کے علاوہ کیانی صاحب سے زیادہ قریبی اور قابل اعتبار دوست امریکا کی نظر میں ابھی نہیں ہے … ویسے امریکی ہیں چالاک قوم … اس کا کوئی متبادل تو رکھا ہی ہو گا انہوں نے ….
US and Pakistan had ( and now again have ) an agreement … under which for a long time Pakistani senior officers used to attend the war colleges in US …. and also use to take lectures as well … in early 90s … due to sanctions …. this process was halted … after that no senior officer visited the war college their … during these visits … both counter parts develop relationships and understanding as well as the friendships … this is a strategic move as well to developer relationship senior military officers of Pakistan and other countries … in this way they not only make relationships but also build information and files about these officers …. now
kiyani is the last of the lot of those who could become CoC …. after him the other generals are from the lot who was deprived of that facility or offer due to sanctions .. and those who visited after the lifting of sanctions are too juniors ….
I personally feel that Gen. Kayani has been doing his job quite well! We should not forget that when he took over and after wards things have been quite complex and hard! It was a huge task to get rid of Musharraf who almost ruined the Pak Army, even if NRO was used as tool to remove Musharraf, it was need of the hour, right or wrong, we can’t say. Had there been Musharraf for couple of more years, we might have lost the country and army.
If one compares the morale and image of Army at the end time of Musharraf and today, there has been tremendous positive change! At that time Army soldiers were even instructed not to appear in public in uniform but today people again have started to take them as brothers! Many soldiers have given their lives in operation against anti-Pakistan elements for the sake of country and people of Pakistan! We should not forget how difficult situation is right now for Pakistan and Army but they have been very firm in all times.
Mr. Kayani has been quite active for the political and judicial stability in country. He stayed in close contact to the heads of the state and continuously discussed the matters of the national interest and conveyed concerns and views of the Army! He rightly supported the wishes of the people of Pakistan by supporting restoration of judges and to save possible anarchy in Islamabad due to long march. It was a bold step to oppose Kerry-Lugar bill where again Army reflected the wishes of common Pakistanis. There has been big corruption and incompetency by the current government but Army did not imposed martial law although excuses were there, this is a very positive attitude of them!
Even if Gen. Kayani studied in USA it does not mean that he is a person of USA. Many Pakistanis have studied abroad but are fully loyal to country e.g. Dr. Qadir khan, Imran Khan are just two examples! In addition to that no country is fully wrong, there are many policies of USA that we don’t agree to but they are also sensible people and we agree to their goods and positives. Blind hate or criticism is never good.
As far as appointment of next Army Chief or extension for Gen. Kayani is concerned, it should be done very carefully and intelligently! As someone already mentioned that Musharraf appointed some people in Army in such a way that they could take control of Army, so this is not a straightforward equation! Let us pray that we make the right decision in this extremely important matter.
@ Aftab Ahmad
Bawa KHOTA is very innocent type creature, and i am sure KHOTA will be very ashamed at this.
وہ تو نظر آ رہا ھے. کھوتا جس طرح منہ ایک طرف کو کر رہا ھے اس سے ایسا لگ رہا ھے جیسے پرویز مشرف سے کہ رہا ہو کہ کدی نہا بھی لیا کر سونیا مطلب کبھی نہا بھی لیا کرو جناب
Whatever you have written in favor of Kayani, it looks quite true that he has done all that so that public may develop some sort of trust. He did all this not because he is a true army man of Pakistan but i think he had no other choice ,
As you yourself have mentioned that army personnel were even barred from visiting public places, so if KAYANI would have continued like that it was evident that the country would go towards anarchy. These bastard BRUTUS would not care of such anarchy but it was not good to carry out their plans.
Kayani is incharge of that army which is said to be one of the best armies in world, and the situation in the country of such elite army is all infront of you and me, who is responsible?
Situation has never been improved since Musharraf, it has been worsening since then,
if you dont agree tell me why are,
1. daily bomb blast killing hundreds of countrymen,
2. even GHQ was attacked and captured for a whole day resulted in killing of many army personnel including high officials,
3. USA drone attacks,
4. Blackwater or such agencies are openly doing business here and this man Kayani
(i wanted to use a bad word for him, anyway) is keeping his mouth shut.
Tell me Mr. Zaheer whose purpose he is serving.????
Today no country is more unstable in world as Pakistan is. Every pakistani has his share in this unstability including common people like you and me, but more than anyone else (including our corrupt politicians) these army elite class is responsible.
AAJ MIR JAFER AUR MIR SADIQ KI ROOHAIN BHI BEY CHAIN HON GI AUR SHARMINDA BHI, KEY HUM NY TO KUCH KIA HI NAHIN, HUM TO MUFT MAIN BADNAAM HO GYE. They must be saying there,
KISI NY “GHADDAR” AUR” MILLAT FAROSH” DEKHNY HAIN TO PAKISTAN CHALY JAO.
Well, i don’t know that why and who signed the NRO, and probably we can just guess! It is a very mysterious document infact. It should be, however, clear that there are not few factors rather many factors do involve in such deals, so it can’t be said that NRO was only signed for USA or UK.
As far as your opinion that Army was wrong on public opinion on Kerry-Lugar bill, i do disagree. I do think that Army conveyed the concerns to the Government and tried to change the Bill conditions but to no avail, so they were left with the choice of opposing it publicly! Do you think that Army did not try to solve this problem behind the scene before opposing publicly?
It is no sin to meet people in dark night or in the day! If it is a sin then all of us do that, and almost every politician and ruler does such meetings! Do you think that Zardari sahib sleep in the night? Why do so called accidentally elected 25% President Zardari wants to remove Mr. Kayani?
By the way, how do you know that Gen. Kayani is constantly pressing Zardari sahib for extension? This is your theory that while Gen. Kayani is busy at many fronts so he is not taking over the government! Personally i think such a take over is not difficult but Army knows it is not good for country! I personally suggest that instead of taking over government if in worst case such a situation comes, it would be much better to terminate the dirty eggs than Martial Law! This accidental President needs to hand over powers to the Prime Minister, who is real representative, instead of committing any nonsense!
In context of new Army Chief or extension, i have given my opinion already! It is a very complex and sensitive matter.
@ zaheer
Even if Gen. Kayani studied in USA it does not mean that he is a person of USA. Many Pakistanis have studied abroad but are fully loyal to country e.g. Dr. Qadir khan, Imran Khan are just two examples! In addition to that no country is fully wrong, there are many policies of USA that we don’t agree to but they are also sensible people and we agree to their goods and positives. Blind hate or criticism is never good.
BHAE no one is criticizing on USA, and we are nothing to do with USA’s policies. they are free to make their policies. They can even make a policy to finish us and we cannot stop them. What we can do is to make our OWN poilies and to prepare ourselves that whatever poliiies our enemies make, we ara able to defend our country. We are not criticizing USA we are criticizing our own people who are working on their policies.
And no one is criticizing that studying there is bad. JINNAH our great Quaid e azam also studied there, so did Dr. Qadeer. but the difference is your CHARACTER. it depends whether you follow the right path or yo follow the path of DOLLARS.
and my dear brother HISTORY REMEMBERS EVERYTHING and you dont have to go far away to find out that,
HISTORY NY JINNAH KO QUAID E AZAM BHI BANAYA, AUR
MUSHARRAF KO KHOTA AUR KANJAR (aur pata nahi kia kia) BHI BANAYA.
History will also define what is the difference between DR. QADEER & KAYANI.
NRO is no more a mysterious document and most of us know very well why and who signed the NRO and who was behind the NRO.
You wrote “As far as your opinion that Army was wrong on public opinion on Kerry-Lugar bill, i do disagree.” Brother you have right to disagree but remember ground realities are not changed if we agree or disagree. Our President or government is not powerful than our military. It was not possible for the President or the government to ignore the concerns of military over Kerry Lugar Bill. Military issued press released to keep the government under pressure. Our military has direct communication with Pentagon. It was able to convey its message through the Pentagon. No change was made in Kerry Lugar Bill on our behalf then Why our military is protesting on its acceptance.
You also wrote “It is no sin to meet people in dark night or in the day! If it is a sin then all of us do that, and almost every politician and ruler does such meetings”. If all the people are violating the traffic laws it does not mean the violation of traffic law is legal and traffic laws no more exist. I do not have no concern if Zardari sleeps or wakes at night. Its his personal problem if he does not sleep at night. My concern is “Is he good or bad for the country? He was elected as the President of Pakistan as required in the constitution and if he has to go, he must go the ways written in the constitution.” I do not think Zardari wants to remove Keyani from his post. He is not as powerful as Keyani. If he does, he is authorized to do under the constitution.
Issuing press release to the media, secret meetings with politics and putting pressure to withdraw from appointment of army chief are signs of keeping the President under pressure and in defensive position.
There is no concept of accident president in the constitution. President is President as far as he is not removed by 2/3 rd majority of the parliament or some other ways written in the constitution.
I do not favour the extension in the tenure of any army chief and senior most general should be the new army chief on moral ground (not under constitution). Under constitution the President is authorized to select the army chief.
@ mujtaba-ali
تو مسلہ یہ ہے کہ ان کے بعد کون آے کیسا ہو گا وغیرہ وغیرہ کی بحث کے علاوہ کیانی صاحب سے زیادہ قریبی اور قابل اعتبار دوست امریکا کی نظر میں ابھی نہیں ہے … ویسے امریکی ہیں چالاک قوم … اس کا کوئی متبادل تو رکھا ہی ہو گا انہوں نے ….
مجتبیٰ بھائی کیانی کے بعد جو بھی آئیگا وہ کیانی سے زیادہ انکا وفادار ہوگا اور غالبا یہ وہی ہوگا جس کا امریکہ میں زرداری اور مشرف کی ملاقات میں فیصلہ کیا گیا تھا اور جسکو کیانی نے جلدی میں کھڈے لائن لگا کر چوہدری نثار اور شہباز شریف سے ملاقات کی تھی. ایک سے بڑھکر ایک پڑا ھے بکنے کیلیے. اس عہدے کی چمک ہی اتنی ھے کہ بڑے بڑوں کی آنکھیں خیرہ ہو جاتی ہیں. جنرل ضیاء الدین بٹ کی اسی لالچ میں نوکری بھی گئی اور جیل میں بھی سڑنا پڑا
Bawa said:
The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible from the president of PaKistan who is also the Supreme Commandor Of Pakistan Military. This notification will prevent him from taking any unconstitutional act because the new army chief will not support his step and we may protect our country from another martial law.
This kiyaani clown should be court martialled for insubordination, corruption and causing hinderence to justice. This clown is subordiante to the chairman joint chiefs, who is subordinate to the defence secretary who is subordiante to the defence minister. How the hell does this chap bypass his bosses and be seen hanging around the president or prime minister whenever he feel like without permission from his bosses. and who the hell authorised him and his goons the chor commanders to give press statements against the govt on kerry-lugar bill. and where the hell was he and his chor commanders when old mush was selling off the country for the billions of $’s. i guess he must have received his share from mush… $’s and ofcourse plots. and why did he not apologise to the nation when his goons manhandled a respectable teacher. shame on kiyani and all those considering him a hero
Name doesnt matter my dear…..i think he Should Be Replaced By the Senior Most General bcoz i dont think he is interested having power of army chief after the date of his retirement and politics or anything like that…there is a reason , In January 2008 General Kayani passed a directive which ordered military officers not to maintain contacts with politicians….Well time will tell what hel Do…..!!
I agree with you that Gen. Keyani should be replced by the senior most general. He himself violated the directive about avoiding contact with the politicians. btw what was his post at that time?
wah, good sab cha gaye hain, idher baith k hi sab kuch decide kr dia, baee apni kon sunta hai. ye sab krnay waly our krwanay waly janain. apna kaam hai inn politicians k jhoot sunna programmes main.
Replacement is a phenomenon of nature.A man must retire to leave space for others.No body is a must,but for two reason Mr Kiyani should continue for some time,till the war at terror ends or meats its logical results,second the person who select for the slot should be trusworthy for the nation,and has good perception.
Any appointment at this momentof history ,by this person at the helmn,will be looked as suspicious by the nation.
Anwar Salim
Official NRO culprits have been revealed now.
The most amazing of this list is MQM guys. These guys cry too much
that they are clean, now they are the toppers of this shameful list.
“Whatever you have written in favor of Kayani, it looks quite true that he has done all that so that public may develop some sort of trust. He did all this not because he is a true army man of Pakistan but i think he had no other choice ,”
Thanks for agreeing. Well, how can one say that Gen. Kayani is not true army man of Pakistan? One can only see what a person has done which reflects his personality! and you admitted his good works so one needs to optimistic for future too! I think there always have been choices to do but army did not go for that!
“As you yourself have mentioned that army personnel were even barred from visiting public places, so if KAYANI would have continued like that it was evident that the country would go towards anarchy. These bastard BRUTUS would not care of such anarchy but it was not good to carry out their plans.”
I think he did it for the sake of country, nation and army but you may have your own vision and give it your own color! I disagree, Pak Army has proved from their recent works that they do care for nation, they have given lives for the country and nation, what else can one expect?
“Kayani is incharge of that army which is said to be one of the best armies in world, and the situation in the country of such elite army is all infront of you and me, who is responsible?”
One can’t put all blindly upon current elite of Army, one needs to look broadly to judge who is responsible for all that! For our current situation four major groups are responsible: Religious lot, Politicians, Judiciary and Army! Of course as nation everyone of is also responsible! and don’t forget that Pakistan is being attacked by so many external forces but Pak Army has been firm! We are paying for our past mistakes!
“Situation has never been improved since Musharraf, it has been worsening since then, if you dont agree tell me why are,”
It has improved!
“1. daily bomb blast killing hundreds of countrymen,”
Because of fragile internal state, political incompetency, external agents, slave rulers, corrupt bureaucracy, weak judiciary, weakness of law and order agencies and above all presence of many external agencies/agents, such happenings can’t be stopped fully! Pak army is not god but they have been very firm so far and will be INSHALLAH.
“2. even GHQ was attacked and captured for a whole day resulted in killing of many army personnel including high officials,”
GHQ was attacked but not captured! Attackers were confined to the gate only! As i said in such a difficult and complex situation such things can happen anywhere, part of life.
“3. USA drone attacks,”
Well, it will take some time before such attacks stop, not everything could be stopped or done immediately!
“4. Blackwater or such agencies are openly doing business here and this man Kayani (i wanted to use a bad word for him, anyway) is keeping his mouth shut.”
It is task of government to expose such elements but you know Zardari and R. Malik are busy in their anti-Pakistan games, , R. Malik even denies any such presence, so why do you expect everything from army? If government orders destruction of blackwater then army will do it INSHALLAH, if army can crush people like Taliban then who are blackwater etc. What do you think is stopping blackwater etc so far? Zardari, R. Malik!
“Tell me Mr. Zaheer whose purpose he is serving.????”
He is serving Pakistan!
“Today no country is more unstable in world as Pakistan is. Every pakistani has his share in this unstability including common people like you and me, but more than anyone else (including our corrupt politicians) these army elite class is responsible.”
Well, army did make mistakes like others but as i mentioned above many other forces are also responsible including civilians, so don’t be unfair in your blame! It will get better INSHALLAH, don’t worry.
“AAJ MIR JAFER AUR MIR SADIQ KI ROOHAIN BHI BEY CHAIN HON GI AUR SHARMINDA BHI, KEY HUM NY TO KUCH KIA HI NAHIN, HUM TO MUFT MAIN BADNAAM HO GYE. They must be saying there,”
I think this better fits to Zardari and Co., R. Malik and Salman Taseer etc!
“KISI NY “GHADDAR” AUR” MILLAT FAROSH” DEKHNY HAIN TO PAKISTAN CHALY JAO.”
Majority of Pakistanis is loyal and good, there are black sheeps though.
“BHAE no one is criticizing on USA, and we are nothing to do with USA’s policies. they are free to make their policies. They can even make a policy to finish us and we cannot stop them. What we can do is to make our OWN poilies and to prepare ourselves that whatever poliiies our enemies make, we ara able to defend our country. We are not criticizing USA we are criticizing our own people who are working on their policies.”
I agree that we need to get united, fair and strong internally so that external pressures could be countered!
“And no one is criticizing that studying there is bad. JINNAH our great Quaid e azam also studied there, so did Dr. Qadeer. but the difference is your CHARACTER. it depends whether you follow the right path or yo follow the path of DOLLARS.”
I agree and don’t forget great Allama Iqbal in that list!
“and my dear brother HISTORY REMEMBERS EVERYTHING and you dont have to go far away to find out that,
HISTORY NY JINNAH KO QUAID E AZAM BHI BANAYA, AUR
MUSHARRAF KO KHOTA AUR KANJAR (aur pata nahi kia kia) BHI BANAYA.”
You are right, Musharraf was one of the worst rulers and army heads, Pakistan ever got!
“History will also define what is the difference between DR. QADEER & KAYANI.”
Mr. Kayani will be among our heroes, INSHALLAH, don’t worry.
“NRO is no more a mysterious document and most of us know very well why and who signed the NRO and who was behind the NRO.”
So you were standing behind all to observe! what did you see there by the way, Bawa sahib!
<>
So only you know the ground realities! what are your personal ground realities by the way? Educate us please.
“Our President or government is not powerful than our military. It was not possible for the President or the government to ignore the concerns of military over Kerry Lugar Bill.”
But your accidental 25% slave president takes externals as god, when he compares army with his masters then he feels strong!
“Military issued press released to keep the government under pressure. Our military has direct communication with Pentagon. It was able to convey its message through the Pentagon. No change was made in Kerry Lugar Bill on our behalf then Why our military is not protesting on its acceptance.”
So you are giving it your own color, i think army issued press release to give its principled stance more than anything else! Your 25% wants to control army, and he wanted to do it through KL bill, so that he breaks Pakistan then, and it can’t be allowed Baway! I think Army conveyed its concerns at all times but your 25% and Co, Haqqnai etc did not try to make changes in the bill! Army did protest, what should they do now? Should they hang Zardari, Haqqani etc?
<>
It does not have to do with traffic light! I told you that to meet people in the night is no sin! Which law forbids it Bawa sahib?
<>
Good that you are not concerned about the sleeping times of Zardari! So you say that your beloved 25% was elected by the people! It was Prime minister who was elected by the people, Zardari has no vote bank, all votes came because of PPP and Benazir! He is sitting like a snake on parliament and rights of Prime minister! So according to your logic Zardari is following constitution and doing all under constitution! Will we apply constitution on him, he will be ….
<>
But i think he wants it because army is not allowing him breaking of Pakistan! He is feeling difficulty in raising his rate from 25% to higher one! He is not powerful than Kayani and he does not deserve that either but he wants it. Yes, you are the person who defines the constitution and you give advices on constitution! Let your 25% first face the courts on NRO, leave grabbed rights of Prime Minister, function parliament freely, then one will see the powers of constitution!
“Issuing press release to the media, secret meetings with politics and putting pressure to withdraw from appointment of army chief are signs of keeping the President under pressure and in defensive position.”
It is your opinion and you have right for it, and i have answered these things above!
“There is no concept of accident president in the constitution. President is President as far as he is not removed by 2/3 rd majority of the parliament or some other ways written in the constitution.”
He is an accidental president of course, he does not have vote bank, he cashed PPP and death of Benazir! Parliament is not being allowed to function by your 25% so now either courts will decide his fate or nation!
“I do not favour the extension in the tenure of any army chief and senior most general should be the new army chief on moral ground (not under constitution). Under constitution the President is authorized to select the army chief.”
As i wrote above, in previous post, that it is not a straightforward equation, so should be decided carefully and intelligently! Country needs a true army leader and not picked by any 25% or accidental president who just wants to break Pakistan, loot it and run away!
Bawa said:
The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible from the president of PaKistan who is also the Supreme Commandor Of Pakistan Military. This notification will prevent him from taking any unconstitutional act because the new army chief will not support his step and we may protect our country from another martial law.
Badshaho , dil Khush kar Ditta aay Tussi
بھائی آپکا دل خوش ہوگیا ھے لیکن ان دلوں کا کیا کروں جہاں سے گالیاں نکل رہی ہیں
Everyone is accountable including Pakistan Army, none us above law. You have mentioned some corruption by some army personals, and those black sheeps in army need to be punished so that our great army gets cleansed. and black sheeps can be anywhere, i personally think that Musharraf was one of the worst head Pakistan and Pakistan Army ever got! Under his protection many people including of army got corrupt but it does not mean that whole lot is corrupt! It was hard task to get rid of him and credit of getting rid of him goes to current elite of Army!
@sabazbagh
No one is INDISPENSABLE, everybody has to go sooner or later, people come and go, this is life! But what is important is that we make such a decision which is good for country and nation! We should decide unitedly and wisely.
U said “It was hard task to get rid of him and credit of getting rid of him goes to current elite of Army”.
bro,good analysis but I disagree with you on this statment,all these generals were wid MUSH,and they were equally liable for Mush’s action.NRO was termed as worst thing but wht abt main poker man from MUSH side General Kiyani,who was active to save MUSH regime and estabslizing Military Rule in Pakistan…As far as current elite is concerned,its too early to say how non corrupt they are.. and history and time proves that they are always top plunderers..even current Trasparency International 2009 reported Highest corruption in Military ppl…time will prove how much this elite is loyal to Pakistan rather than state Business/Corruption/Indirect control over civilian Govt….My fingers are crossed!!
“U said “It was hard task to get rid of him and credit of getting rid of him goes to current elite of Army”.”
Right! and here i want to add that the great role of Judges, Lawyers and Nation should also be kept in mind in removing Musharraf!
“bro,good analysis but I disagree with you on this statment,all these generals were wid MUSH,and they were equally liable for Mush’s action.”
Great bro that you disagree it is your right! It is hard to say that who was with Musharraf happily and who was with him under compulsion, because in army one is required to follow the orders of the head! Had it not been case then our brave soldiers would not have given up in 1971!
“NRO was termed as worst thing but wht abt main poker man from MUSH side General Kiyani,who was active to save MUSH regime and estabslizing Military Rule in Pakistan…”
NRO is of course a wrong contract but it has exposed many faces! No it was not Kayani who was eager to save Mush rather it was his compulsion, in my opinion! At the end he also played a big role in getting rid of him i think! As i said in army or at other places one has to follow the head and even if we suppose that Mr. Kayani or army made any mistake, as anyone can make a mistake, then he has positively changed as could be seen from his current positive acts.
“As far as current elite is concerned,its too early to say how non corrupt they are..”
How much time do we need to judge? What time period do you like? It is very much possible that history proves that they are not corrupt! Who knows, so one needs to be optimistic.
“and history and time proves that they are always top plunderers..”
Your history tells that they are top plunderers but i don’t agree. I have time and again said that army has been corrupt but others also were so, and army mainly suffered from many incompetent heads.
“even current Trasparency International 2009 reported Highest corruption in Military ppl…”
This reoprt needs to be studied and analyzed before agreeing to your statement. It is however very clear that under Musharraf corruption was at peaks but i think he could not defeat Mr. 25%.
“time will prove how much this elite is loyal to Pakistan rather than state Business/Corruption/Indirect control over civilian Govt….”
Yes, time will prove all the things, INSHALLAH. You think that they will take wrong direction but i think they will take positive direction! One needs to be optimistic Mir sahib otherwise one can think that you will even leave Mir Jaffer much behind
“My fingers are crossed!!”
Be relax, don’t cross your fingers for a long period, hands can’t be left in this position permanently
“The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible”
But i will suggest if their is any possibility PM should promote the Cheif of Air staff as Joint Cheif of army staff .
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The name Pervaiz has always been harmed to Islam.
@Babloo
This is not a must condition!
The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible from the president of PaKistan who is also the Supreme Commandor Of Pakistan Military. This notification will prevent him from taking any unconstitutional act because the new army chief will not support his step and we may protect our country from another martial law.
@Babloo
Same with “ULLAH”.
How about being imprisoned for what he did as ISI Chief under Mush’s regime?
@ paki.revolution
کیا کہ رہے ہو بھائی! ادھر حکومت کے لالے پڑے ہوئے ہیں اور آپ آرمی چیف کو جیل میں ڈالنے کی بات کر رہے ہیں. شاید آپکو یاد نہیں کہ فوج نے تو یحییٰ خان جیسے کتوں کو بھی گارڈ آف آنر دیکر اور قومی پرچم میں لپیٹ کر دفن کیا تھا
I beleive rules are rules…. so 3 years are up and he should let go otherwise we will not get out of the favoritism that has ruled our country since the independence. So, whoever is senior most must take his place.
@ babloo
What?? lol
Main Kiya Zara Idher wakho Ki Hon Laga jay lol
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/nov2009-daily/18-11-2009/u11750.htm
Tusi Army di fikar chado Ithey Mulak Da nam change karan diyan galan ho riyan jay wtf man
Koi Kehta hai pakistan ka nam change kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se islam khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se molvi khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se masjad khatam kar do koi kehta hai masjad se speaker khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se deen khatam kar do koi kehta hai gharat ka nam khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se jihad khatam kar do koi kehta hai pakistan se ……………………. her kisi ki bi man lain gay to kahain gay pakistan khatam kar do….. Main kehta hoon Saab Naam Nihaad Muheb e watan ko kahatm kar do SAAB THEEK HO JAY GA INSHALLAH ………………….. Jind Pakistan
JAN PAKISTAN
LOVE PAKISTAN
LIFE PAKISTAN
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD
PAKISTAN PAINDABAD
GHADAR KO SIRF MOAT WO BI SAR E AAM CHOWK K ANDAR MINAR E PAKISTAN SE DHAKKA DO IN GHADAROON KO AWARA OARTAAN DE GHADAR BACHEY
MQM AOR ANP WALO GHADARO PAKISTAN SE NIKAL JAO AOR APNA EK ALAG MULAK BANA LO AOR US KA NAM RAKHO AWAMI JAMUHRIYA KHUSRASYAN
Altaf Kali Mata ki Team >>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sz6HXXsJZQ&feature=player_embedded#
@Ali ch
Who are you talking about Pervez Musharraf or Noman Khalid?
“Dill dill Pakistan”
what hypocracy! more like;
Dill dill bay imaan Dill dill bay imaan
loot lo Pakistan loot lo Pakistan
@ ALi Ch
Click my ID to see your “favourite Mush”
As far as the issue on army chief is concerned, Im sure I heard Moshe say somewhere that he had shuffled the high ranking Army officials so that his interest would remain protected even if he was removed. Pakistan has suffered from the hands of the generals over the years. It seems to as if the whole promotional and ranking mechanism including current army elliet need investigating to see how many of them are loyal to Pakistan and how many are loyal to foriegn masters.
After a through investigation those who are found corrupt and brainwashed like moshe, they should be removed to allow for fresh promotions. As such, there cant be any harm in letting Qiyqni (who is so far so good) run a little longer. After all, extending his tenure would be with in the constitution, would it not? Qiyani is tried and tested.
Thats my logic anyway.
@ Bawa
Bawa bro Yaqeen karo khota khoobsoorat hai is kanjar se lol
ALi Ch
Bawa bro Yaqeen karo khota khoobsoorat hai is kanjar se lol
And graceful too.
I am getting very concerned about the ability of the PKP people to come up with the most basic questions in any intelligent way. One after other they are keep putting up silly questions like little kids and insulting the readers abilities.
Ok young man, when someone finishes their job, what should be their fate.
Should they be Killed?
Should they be given a big retirement party and acknowledged for their hard work?
Should they be given a nice retirement package and allow them to be whatever they chose to be after their retirement within the laws of the land?
There must be laws about the retired army officers to be able to work in some capacity as advisors or consultants.
I am utterly confused by this oxymoronic logic.
Are you applying that Pakistani Army Chiefs are some special breed and must be treated differently than another Pakistani government servant?
@JJ Khan
He also acted as Mushy’s Tout in NRO deal. Zardari will definitely give extension to his BOSS.
@ ALI ch
wel written , these ghaddar should be kicked out of country.
GENERAL KIYANI IS DOING fantastic job, he is cleaning taliban rubbish, so he should be given extension untill a single jahil talib is finished from the country even earth.
LONG LIVE GENERAL KIYANI, YOU ARE TRUE PAKISTANI, WE ADMIRE UR EFFORTS.
Babloo said:
The name Pervaiz has always been harmed to Islam.
Great comments!
@ bawa
i respect your feelings but Mr. Bawa KHOTA is very innocent type creature,
and i am sure KHOTA will be very ashamed at this.
It hardly matter if Kayani goes off or continues…………….
even if he leaves some other “Paid servant of USA” will join the office.
@ALI BHAE
well said ali bhae.
Pakistan is all we have. Pakistan was created for Islam, if you want a secular Pakistan
you are denying the very purpose of creation of this great country.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Right now, I have -1000 trust in civil leadership.
At such a time, I don’t think it is wise to let these traitors decide our NEXT in command General.
I want someone loyal to Pakistan, to Muslims, to people of Pakistan, to decide this, not people like Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, ANP, MQM, PPP and people like them.
THEY ARE ALL!! TRAITORS!!!
Their past and their present PROVES it AGAIN and AGAIN
@ Aftab Ahmad
i second your last comments … and i do it on the bases of facts and figures ….
It doesn’t matter if current COAS stay in the office or not, whoever succeed him will be according to the wishes of Uncle Sam any way.
@mujtaba-ali
come with your facts plz.
@ Aftab Ahmad
please explain ur question ….
@ Aftab Ahmad
bhayi main ap ki hamayat ker rha hon … mujh se facts and figures kiun mang rahay hian … ?
copying my comments from other thread
بھر حال جو ہونا ہے وہ تو ہمارے اختیار مے ہے نہیں . البتہ … ایک دلچسپ بات جو کیانی صاحب کے حق میں جاتی ہے وہ یہ ہے کہ کیانی صاحب آخری جرنیل ہیں جنہوں نے امریکا سے تربیت حاصل کی ہے … ان کے بعد آنے والے سبھی لوگ وہ ہیں جن کی تعلیم و تربیت کے وقت ہم پر پابندیاں لگی ہوی تھیں … تو مسلہ یہ ہے کہ ان کے بعد کون آے کیسا ہو گا وغیرہ وغیرہ کی بحث کے علاوہ کیانی صاحب سے زیادہ قریبی اور قابل اعتبار دوست امریکا کی نظر میں ابھی نہیں ہے … ویسے امریکی ہیں چالاک قوم … اس کا کوئی متبادل تو رکھا ہی ہو گا انہوں نے ….
@mujtaba-ali
i know bhaee you are agreeing to me,
i am asking if you have any facts, you should put them here for all of us,
@mujtaba-ali
kayani is last man who was trained there and there is no more like him
interesting thing revealed my dear bro.
waiting for more ………..
@ Aftab Ahmad
hmmmm
US and Pakistan had ( and now again have ) an agreement … under which for a long time Pakistani senior officers used to attend the war colleges in US …. and also use to take lectures as well … in early 90s … due to sanctions …. this process was halted … after that no senior officer visited the war college their … during these visits … both counter parts develop relationships and understanding as well as the friendships … this is a strategic move as well to developer relationship senior military officers of Pakistan and other countries … in this way they not only make relationships but also build information and files about these officers …. now
kiyani is the last of the lot of those who could become CoC …. after him the other generals are from the lot who was deprived of that facility or offer due to sanctions .. and those who visited after the lifting of sanctions are too juniors ….
I personally feel that Gen. Kayani has been doing his job quite well! We should not forget that when he took over and after wards things have been quite complex and hard! It was a huge task to get rid of Musharraf who almost ruined the Pak Army, even if NRO was used as tool to remove Musharraf, it was need of the hour, right or wrong, we can’t say. Had there been Musharraf for couple of more years, we might have lost the country and army.
If one compares the morale and image of Army at the end time of Musharraf and today, there has been tremendous positive change! At that time Army soldiers were even instructed not to appear in public in uniform but today people again have started to take them as brothers! Many soldiers have given their lives in operation against anti-Pakistan elements for the sake of country and people of Pakistan! We should not forget how difficult situation is right now for Pakistan and Army but they have been very firm in all times.
Mr. Kayani has been quite active for the political and judicial stability in country. He stayed in close contact to the heads of the state and continuously discussed the matters of the national interest and conveyed concerns and views of the Army! He rightly supported the wishes of the people of Pakistan by supporting restoration of judges and to save possible anarchy in Islamabad due to long march. It was a bold step to oppose Kerry-Lugar bill where again Army reflected the wishes of common Pakistanis. There has been big corruption and incompetency by the current government but Army did not imposed martial law although excuses were there, this is a very positive attitude of them!
Even if Gen. Kayani studied in USA it does not mean that he is a person of USA. Many Pakistanis have studied abroad but are fully loyal to country e.g. Dr. Qadir khan, Imran Khan are just two examples! In addition to that no country is fully wrong, there are many policies of USA that we don’t agree to but they are also sensible people and we agree to their goods and positives. Blind hate or criticism is never good.
As far as appointment of next Army Chief or extension for Gen. Kayani is concerned, it should be done very carefully and intelligently! As someone already mentioned that Musharraf appointed some people in Army in such a way that they could take control of Army, so this is not a straightforward equation! Let us pray that we make the right decision in this extremely important matter.
@ Aftab Ahmad
Bawa KHOTA is very innocent type creature, and i am sure KHOTA will be very ashamed at this.
وہ تو نظر آ رہا ھے. کھوتا جس طرح منہ ایک طرف کو کر رہا ھے اس سے ایسا لگ رہا ھے جیسے پرویز مشرف سے کہ رہا ہو کہ کدی نہا بھی لیا کر سونیا مطلب کبھی نہا بھی لیا کرو جناب
@Zaheer
Whatever you have written in favor of Kayani, it looks quite true that he has done all that so that public may develop some sort of trust. He did all this not because he is a true army man of Pakistan but i think he had no other choice ,
As you yourself have mentioned that army personnel were even barred from visiting public places, so if KAYANI would have continued like that it was evident that the country would go towards anarchy. These bastard BRUTUS would not care of such anarchy but it was not good to carry out their plans.
Kayani is incharge of that army which is said to be one of the best armies in world, and the situation in the country of such elite army is all infront of you and me, who is responsible?
Situation has never been improved since Musharraf, it has been worsening since then,
if you dont agree tell me why are,
1. daily bomb blast killing hundreds of countrymen,
2. even GHQ was attacked and captured for a whole day resulted in killing of many army personnel including high officials,
3. USA drone attacks,
4. Blackwater or such agencies are openly doing business here and this man Kayani
(i wanted to use a bad word for him, anyway) is keeping his mouth shut.
Tell me Mr. Zaheer whose purpose he is serving.????
Today no country is more unstable in world as Pakistan is. Every pakistani has his share in this unstability including common people like you and me, but more than anyone else (including our corrupt politicians) these army elite class is responsible.
AAJ MIR JAFER AUR MIR SADIQ KI ROOHAIN BHI BEY CHAIN HON GI AUR SHARMINDA BHI, KEY HUM NY TO KUCH KIA HI NAHIN, HUM TO MUFT MAIN BADNAAM HO GYE. They must be saying there,
KISI NY “GHADDAR” AUR” MILLAT FAROSH” DEKHNY HAIN TO PAKISTAN CHALY JAO.
Zaheer said:
@Bawa
Well, i don’t know that why and who signed the NRO, and probably we can just guess! It is a very mysterious document infact. It should be, however, clear that there are not few factors rather many factors do involve in such deals, so it can’t be said that NRO was only signed for USA or UK.
As far as your opinion that Army was wrong on public opinion on Kerry-Lugar bill, i do disagree. I do think that Army conveyed the concerns to the Government and tried to change the Bill conditions but to no avail, so they were left with the choice of opposing it publicly! Do you think that Army did not try to solve this problem behind the scene before opposing publicly?
It is no sin to meet people in dark night or in the day! If it is a sin then all of us do that, and almost every politician and ruler does such meetings! Do you think that Zardari sahib sleep in the night? Why do so called accidentally elected 25% President Zardari wants to remove Mr. Kayani?
By the way, how do you know that Gen. Kayani is constantly pressing Zardari sahib for extension? This is your theory that while Gen. Kayani is busy at many fronts so he is not taking over the government! Personally i think such a take over is not difficult but Army knows it is not good for country! I personally suggest that instead of taking over government if in worst case such a situation comes, it would be much better to terminate the dirty eggs than Martial Law! This accidental President needs to hand over powers to the Prime Minister, who is real representative, instead of committing any nonsense!
In context of new Army Chief or extension, i have given my opinion already! It is a very complex and sensitive matter.
@ zaheer
Even if Gen. Kayani studied in USA it does not mean that he is a person of USA. Many Pakistanis have studied abroad but are fully loyal to country e.g. Dr. Qadir khan, Imran Khan are just two examples! In addition to that no country is fully wrong, there are many policies of USA that we don’t agree to but they are also sensible people and we agree to their goods and positives. Blind hate or criticism is never good.
BHAE no one is criticizing on USA, and we are nothing to do with USA’s policies. they are free to make their policies. They can even make a policy to finish us and we cannot stop them. What we can do is to make our OWN poilies and to prepare ourselves that whatever poliiies our enemies make, we ara able to defend our country. We are not criticizing USA we are criticizing our own people who are working on their policies.
And no one is criticizing that studying there is bad. JINNAH our great Quaid e azam also studied there, so did Dr. Qadeer. but the difference is your CHARACTER. it depends whether you follow the right path or yo follow the path of DOLLARS.
and my dear brother HISTORY REMEMBERS EVERYTHING and you dont have to go far away to find out that,
HISTORY NY JINNAH KO QUAID E AZAM BHI BANAYA, AUR
MUSHARRAF KO KHOTA AUR KANJAR (aur pata nahi kia kia) BHI BANAYA.
History will also define what is the difference between DR. QADEER & KAYANI.
@ Zaheer
NRO is no more a mysterious document and most of us know very well why and who signed the NRO and who was behind the NRO.
You wrote “As far as your opinion that Army was wrong on public opinion on Kerry-Lugar bill, i do disagree.” Brother you have right to disagree but remember ground realities are not changed if we agree or disagree. Our President or government is not powerful than our military. It was not possible for the President or the government to ignore the concerns of military over Kerry Lugar Bill. Military issued press released to keep the government under pressure. Our military has direct communication with Pentagon. It was able to convey its message through the Pentagon. No change was made in Kerry Lugar Bill on our behalf then Why our military is protesting on its acceptance.
You also wrote “It is no sin to meet people in dark night or in the day! If it is a sin then all of us do that, and almost every politician and ruler does such meetings”. If all the people are violating the traffic laws it does not mean the violation of traffic law is legal and traffic laws no more exist. I do not have no concern if Zardari sleeps or wakes at night. Its his personal problem if he does not sleep at night. My concern is “Is he good or bad for the country? He was elected as the President of Pakistan as required in the constitution and if he has to go, he must go the ways written in the constitution.” I do not think Zardari wants to remove Keyani from his post. He is not as powerful as Keyani. If he does, he is authorized to do under the constitution.
Issuing press release to the media, secret meetings with politics and putting pressure to withdraw from appointment of army chief are signs of keeping the President under pressure and in defensive position.
There is no concept of accident president in the constitution. President is President as far as he is not removed by 2/3 rd majority of the parliament or some other ways written in the constitution.
I do not favour the extension in the tenure of any army chief and senior most general should be the new army chief on moral ground (not under constitution). Under constitution the President is authorized to select the army chief.
Please read as:
No change is made in Kerry Lugar Bill on our behalf then Why our military is not protesting on its acceptance.
@ mujtaba-ali
تو مسلہ یہ ہے کہ ان کے بعد کون آے کیسا ہو گا وغیرہ وغیرہ کی بحث کے علاوہ کیانی صاحب سے زیادہ قریبی اور قابل اعتبار دوست امریکا کی نظر میں ابھی نہیں ہے … ویسے امریکی ہیں چالاک قوم … اس کا کوئی متبادل تو رکھا ہی ہو گا انہوں نے ….
مجتبیٰ بھائی کیانی کے بعد جو بھی آئیگا وہ کیانی سے زیادہ انکا وفادار ہوگا اور غالبا یہ وہی ہوگا جس کا امریکہ میں زرداری اور مشرف کی ملاقات میں فیصلہ کیا گیا تھا اور جسکو کیانی نے جلدی میں کھڈے لائن لگا کر چوہدری نثار اور شہباز شریف سے ملاقات کی تھی. ایک سے بڑھکر ایک پڑا ھے بکنے کیلیے. اس عہدے کی چمک ہی اتنی ھے کہ بڑے بڑوں کی آنکھیں خیرہ ہو جاتی ہیں. جنرل ضیاء الدین بٹ کی اسی لالچ میں نوکری بھی گئی اور جیل میں بھی سڑنا پڑا
is UHDEY ki chamak hi itni hy, thats right Bawa,
well said…..
@ Aftab Ahmad
اور کوئی جنرل جہانگیر کرامت کی طرح اس عہدے کو لات مار کر چلے جاتے ہیں اور تاریخ میں اپنے آپکو زندہ کر جاتے ہیں
@Bawa
well, thats what is called CHARACTER.
@ Aftab Ahmad
شریف لوگوں کو عزت پیاری ہوتی ھے اور بیغیرتوں کو عہدے
Bawa said:
The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible from the president of PaKistan who is also the Supreme Commandor Of Pakistan Military. This notification will prevent him from taking any unconstitutional act because the new army chief will not support his step and we may protect our country from another martial law.
Badshaho , dil Khush kar Ditta aay Tussi
This kiyaani clown should be court martialled for insubordination, corruption and causing hinderence to justice. This clown is subordiante to the chairman joint chiefs, who is subordinate to the defence secretary who is subordiante to the defence minister. How the hell does this chap bypass his bosses and be seen hanging around the president or prime minister whenever he feel like without permission from his bosses. and who the hell authorised him and his goons the chor commanders to give press statements against the govt on kerry-lugar bill. and where the hell was he and his chor commanders when old mush was selling off the country for the billions of $’s. i guess he must have received his share from mush… $’s and ofcourse plots. and why did he not apologise to the nation when his goons manhandled a respectable teacher. shame on kiyani and all those considering him a hero
by the way its this chap kiyani and his chor commanders who stand in the way of a fair trial of old mush for his doings
Dr. Shireem Mazari’s USA game plan
<a href="http://www.pakspectator.com/pakistan-trapped-in-the-us-game-plan/" title="American Game Plan"
Dr. Shireem Mazari’s USA game plan
http://www.pakspectator.com/pakistan-trapped-in-the-us-game-plan/
Name doesnt matter my dear…..i think he Should Be Replaced By the Senior Most General bcoz i dont think he is interested having power of army chief after the date of his retirement and politics or anything like that…there is a reason , In January 2008 General Kayani passed a directive which ordered military officers not to maintain contacts with politicians….Well time will tell what hel Do…..!!
@ fazz
I agree with you that Gen. Keyani should be replced by the senior most general. He himself violated the directive about avoiding contact with the politicians. btw what was his post at that time?
Anything in line with the constitution of Pakistan does it for me
wah, good sab cha gaye hain, idher baith k hi sab kuch decide kr dia, baee apni kon sunta hai. ye sab krnay waly our krwanay waly janain. apna kaam hai inn politicians k jhoot sunna programmes main.
@ arrehman
to khud ko itna strong karo k ap ki bhi suni jaye…..
Replacement is a phenomenon of nature.A man must retire to leave space for others.No body is a must,but for two reason Mr Kiyani should continue for some time,till the war at terror ends or meats its logical results,second the person who select for the slot should be trusworthy for the nation,and has good perception.
Any appointment at this momentof history ,by this person at the helmn,will be looked as suspicious by the nation.
Anwar Salim
Lolzzzzzzzzzzz
Official NRO culprits have been revealed now.
The most amazing of this list is MQM guys. These guys cry too much
that they are clean, now they are the toppers of this shameful list.
PML Q came out clean, but infact they are not.
AAG HY, AULAD-E-IBRAHIM HY, NAMROOD HY
http://www.pakspectator.com/us-to-send-all-weapons-of-iraq-war-to-pakistan/
@Aftab Ahmad
“Whatever you have written in favor of Kayani, it looks quite true that he has done all that so that public may develop some sort of trust. He did all this not because he is a true army man of Pakistan but i think he had no other choice ,”
Thanks for agreeing. Well, how can one say that Gen. Kayani is not true army man of Pakistan? One can only see what a person has done which reflects his personality! and you admitted his good works so one needs to optimistic for future too! I think there always have been choices to do but army did not go for that!
“As you yourself have mentioned that army personnel were even barred from visiting public places, so if KAYANI would have continued like that it was evident that the country would go towards anarchy. These bastard BRUTUS would not care of such anarchy but it was not good to carry out their plans.”
I think he did it for the sake of country, nation and army but you may have your own vision and give it your own color! I disagree, Pak Army has proved from their recent works that they do care for nation, they have given lives for the country and nation, what else can one expect?
“Kayani is incharge of that army which is said to be one of the best armies in world, and the situation in the country of such elite army is all infront of you and me, who is responsible?”
One can’t put all blindly upon current elite of Army, one needs to look broadly to judge who is responsible for all that! For our current situation four major groups are responsible: Religious lot, Politicians, Judiciary and Army! Of course as nation everyone of is also responsible! and don’t forget that Pakistan is being attacked by so many external forces but Pak Army has been firm! We are paying for our past mistakes!
“Situation has never been improved since Musharraf, it has been worsening since then, if you dont agree tell me why are,”
It has improved!
“1. daily bomb blast killing hundreds of countrymen,”
Because of fragile internal state, political incompetency, external agents, slave rulers, corrupt bureaucracy, weak judiciary, weakness of law and order agencies and above all presence of many external agencies/agents, such happenings can’t be stopped fully! Pak army is not god but they have been very firm so far and will be INSHALLAH.
“2. even GHQ was attacked and captured for a whole day resulted in killing of many army personnel including high officials,”
GHQ was attacked but not captured! Attackers were confined to the gate only! As i said in such a difficult and complex situation such things can happen anywhere, part of life.
“3. USA drone attacks,”
Well, it will take some time before such attacks stop, not everything could be stopped or done immediately!
“4. Blackwater or such agencies are openly doing business here and this man Kayani (i wanted to use a bad word for him, anyway) is keeping his mouth shut.”
It is task of government to expose such elements but you know Zardari and R. Malik are busy in their anti-Pakistan games, , R. Malik even denies any such presence, so why do you expect everything from army? If government orders destruction of blackwater then army will do it INSHALLAH, if army can crush people like Taliban then who are blackwater etc. What do you think is stopping blackwater etc so far? Zardari, R. Malik!
“Tell me Mr. Zaheer whose purpose he is serving.????”
He is serving Pakistan!
“Today no country is more unstable in world as Pakistan is. Every pakistani has his share in this unstability including common people like you and me, but more than anyone else (including our corrupt politicians) these army elite class is responsible.”
Well, army did make mistakes like others but as i mentioned above many other forces are also responsible including civilians, so don’t be unfair in your blame! It will get better INSHALLAH, don’t worry.
“AAJ MIR JAFER AUR MIR SADIQ KI ROOHAIN BHI BEY CHAIN HON GI AUR SHARMINDA BHI, KEY HUM NY TO KUCH KIA HI NAHIN, HUM TO MUFT MAIN BADNAAM HO GYE. They must be saying there,”
I think this better fits to Zardari and Co., R. Malik and Salman Taseer etc!
“KISI NY “GHADDAR” AUR” MILLAT FAROSH” DEKHNY HAIN TO PAKISTAN CHALY JAO.”
Majority of Pakistanis is loyal and good, there are black sheeps though.
“BHAE no one is criticizing on USA, and we are nothing to do with USA’s policies. they are free to make their policies. They can even make a policy to finish us and we cannot stop them. What we can do is to make our OWN poilies and to prepare ourselves that whatever poliiies our enemies make, we ara able to defend our country. We are not criticizing USA we are criticizing our own people who are working on their policies.”
I agree that we need to get united, fair and strong internally so that external pressures could be countered!
“And no one is criticizing that studying there is bad. JINNAH our great Quaid e azam also studied there, so did Dr. Qadeer. but the difference is your CHARACTER. it depends whether you follow the right path or yo follow the path of DOLLARS.”
I agree and don’t forget great Allama Iqbal in that list!
“and my dear brother HISTORY REMEMBERS EVERYTHING and you dont have to go far away to find out that,
HISTORY NY JINNAH KO QUAID E AZAM BHI BANAYA, AUR
MUSHARRAF KO KHOTA AUR KANJAR (aur pata nahi kia kia) BHI BANAYA.”
You are right, Musharraf was one of the worst rulers and army heads, Pakistan ever got!
“History will also define what is the difference between DR. QADEER & KAYANI.”
Mr. Kayani will be among our heroes, INSHALLAH, don’t worry.
He should be accounted for the extra judicial killings of hundreds of pakistanis as he allowed and continue to collude to kill his fellow countrymen!
though i believe that he should be given a fair trial!
No doubt that he betrayed pakistan and Islam.
Regards
@Bawa
“NRO is no more a mysterious document and most of us know very well why and who signed the NRO and who was behind the NRO.”
So you were standing behind all to observe! what did you see there by the way, Bawa sahib!
<>
So only you know the ground realities! what are your personal ground realities by the way? Educate us please.
“Our President or government is not powerful than our military. It was not possible for the President or the government to ignore the concerns of military over Kerry Lugar Bill.”
But your accidental 25% slave president takes externals as god, when he compares army with his masters then he feels strong!
“Military issued press released to keep the government under pressure. Our military has direct communication with Pentagon. It was able to convey its message through the Pentagon. No change was made in Kerry Lugar Bill on our behalf then Why our military is not protesting on its acceptance.”
So you are giving it your own color, i think army issued press release to give its principled stance more than anything else! Your 25% wants to control army, and he wanted to do it through KL bill, so that he breaks Pakistan then, and it can’t be allowed Baway! I think Army conveyed its concerns at all times but your 25% and Co, Haqqnai etc did not try to make changes in the bill! Army did protest, what should they do now? Should they hang Zardari, Haqqani etc?
<>
It does not have to do with traffic light! I told you that to meet people in the night is no sin! Which law forbids it Bawa sahib?
<>
Good that you are not concerned about the sleeping times of Zardari! So you say that your beloved 25% was elected by the people! It was Prime minister who was elected by the people, Zardari has no vote bank, all votes came because of PPP and Benazir! He is sitting like a snake on parliament and rights of Prime minister! So according to your logic Zardari is following constitution and doing all under constitution! Will we apply constitution on him, he will be ….
<>
But i think he wants it because army is not allowing him breaking of Pakistan! He is feeling difficulty in raising his rate from 25% to higher one! He is not powerful than Kayani and he does not deserve that either but he wants it. Yes, you are the person who defines the constitution and you give advices on constitution! Let your 25% first face the courts on NRO, leave grabbed rights of Prime Minister, function parliament freely, then one will see the powers of constitution!
“Issuing press release to the media, secret meetings with politics and putting pressure to withdraw from appointment of army chief are signs of keeping the President under pressure and in defensive position.”
It is your opinion and you have right for it, and i have answered these things above!
“There is no concept of accident president in the constitution. President is President as far as he is not removed by 2/3 rd majority of the parliament or some other ways written in the constitution.”
He is an accidental president of course, he does not have vote bank, he cashed PPP and death of Benazir! Parliament is not being allowed to function by your 25% so now either courts will decide his fate or nation!
“I do not favour the extension in the tenure of any army chief and senior most general should be the new army chief on moral ground (not under constitution). Under constitution the President is authorized to select the army chief.”
As i wrote above, in previous post, that it is not a straightforward equation, so should be decided carefully and intelligently! Country needs a true army leader and not picked by any 25% or accidental president who just wants to break Pakistan, loot it and run away!
Zaheer
Bawa, what are your personal ground realities by the way? Educate us please
Zaheer sahib, would you like to explain your sentence “what are your personal ground realities by the way”
Thanks
@ propolitics
Bawa said:
The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible from the president of PaKistan who is also the Supreme Commandor Of Pakistan Military. This notification will prevent him from taking any unconstitutional act because the new army chief will not support his step and we may protect our country from another martial law.
Badshaho , dil Khush kar Ditta aay Tussi
بھائی آپکا دل خوش ہوگیا ھے لیکن ان دلوں کا کیا کروں جہاں سے گالیاں نکل رہی ہیں
@Bawa
Ziada masoom or bhooley naan bano Bawa sahib! You understand what i mean, don’t try to play boxing with me, i like games of swords!
@ Zaheer
Thanks
@ Zaheer
Bawa, Ziada masoom or bhooley naan bano Bawa sahib! You understand what i mean, don’t try to play boxing with me, i like games of swords!
ظہیر صاحب کھیل جو بھی کھیلیں اسکے قائدے قوانین کا خیال رکھیں اور فول نہ کھیلیں
@Bawa
and don’t try to finalize rules for us! Rules ka sirf aap hi ko patta hey? What is foul play, how do you define it?
@ Zaheer
Rules are same for all players and every payer is expected to follow the rules.
Please have a Look at Military Corruption details:
1.Pakistan’s Looters and Plunderers: Politicians or Generals?
http://www.satribune.com/archives/jul06_12_03/opinion_amin.htm
2.Corrupt Musharraf’s Generals, Exposed by Musharraf’s Generals ( writer Shaheen Sahbai)
http://antisystemic.org/satribune/www.satribune.com/archives/200504/P1_ss3.htm
3.Musharraf Engulfed in Biggest Emerging Financial Scandal of His Tenure
http://antisystemic.org/satribune/www.satribune.com/archives/200509/P1_fund.htm
Some more interesting stories to share you.
Please have a look!
The First Hand List of Army Land Grabbers
http://www.satribune.com/archives/Aug17_23_02/P1_landgrabbing.htm#top
The deepening contradiction by Irfan Husain
The Dawn dated 11 November 2000
http://www.lib.virginia.edu/area-studies/SouthAsia/SAserials/Dawn/2000/nov11.html#thed
All said & done, Kayani should GO HOME as he is NOT INDISPENSABLE.
An opportunity should be given to others to be TRIED & TESTED.
@mir munsif
Everyone is accountable including Pakistan Army, none us above law. You have mentioned some corruption by some army personals, and those black sheeps in army need to be punished so that our great army gets cleansed. and black sheeps can be anywhere, i personally think that Musharraf was one of the worst head Pakistan and Pakistan Army ever got! Under his protection many people including of army got corrupt but it does not mean that whole lot is corrupt! It was hard task to get rid of him and credit of getting rid of him goes to current elite of Army!
@sabazbagh
No one is INDISPENSABLE, everybody has to go sooner or later, people come and go, this is life! But what is important is that we make such a decision which is good for country and nation! We should decide unitedly and wisely.
@Zaheer,
U said “It was hard task to get rid of him and credit of getting rid of him goes to current elite of Army”.
bro,good analysis but I disagree with you on this statment,all these generals were wid MUSH,and they were equally liable for Mush’s action.NRO was termed as worst thing but wht abt main poker man from MUSH side General Kiyani,who was active to save MUSH regime and estabslizing Military Rule in Pakistan…As far as current elite is concerned,its too early to say how non corrupt they are.. and history and time proves that they are always top plunderers..even current Trasparency International 2009 reported Highest corruption in Military ppl…time will prove how much this elite is loyal to Pakistan rather than state Business/Corruption/Indirect control over civilian Govt….My fingers are crossed!!
@mir munsif
Thanks a lot Mir sahib for kind reply.
“U said “It was hard task to get rid of him and credit of getting rid of him goes to current elite of Army”.”
Right! and here i want to add that the great role of Judges, Lawyers and Nation should also be kept in mind in removing Musharraf!
“bro,good analysis but I disagree with you on this statment,all these generals were wid MUSH,and they were equally liable for Mush’s action.”
Great bro that you disagree it is your right! It is hard to say that who was with Musharraf happily and who was with him under compulsion, because in army one is required to follow the orders of the head! Had it not been case then our brave soldiers would not have given up in 1971!
“NRO was termed as worst thing but wht abt main poker man from MUSH side General Kiyani,who was active to save MUSH regime and estabslizing Military Rule in Pakistan…”
NRO is of course a wrong contract but it has exposed many faces! No it was not Kayani who was eager to save Mush rather it was his compulsion, in my opinion! At the end he also played a big role in getting rid of him i think! As i said in army or at other places one has to follow the head and even if we suppose that Mr. Kayani or army made any mistake, as anyone can make a mistake, then he has positively changed as could be seen from his current positive acts.
“As far as current elite is concerned,its too early to say how non corrupt they are..”
How much time do we need to judge? What time period do you like? It is very much possible that history proves that they are not corrupt! Who knows, so one needs to be optimistic.
“and history and time proves that they are always top plunderers..”
Your history tells that they are top plunderers but i don’t agree. I have time and again said that army has been corrupt but others also were so, and army mainly suffered from many incompetent heads.
“even current Trasparency International 2009 reported Highest corruption in Military ppl…”
This reoprt needs to be studied and analyzed before agreeing to your statement. It is however very clear that under Musharraf corruption was at peaks but i think he could not defeat Mr. 25%.
“time will prove how much this elite is loyal to Pakistan rather than state Business/Corruption/Indirect control over civilian Govt….”
Yes, time will prove all the things, INSHALLAH. You think that they will take wrong direction but i think they will take positive direction! One needs to be optimistic Mir sahib otherwise one can think that you will even leave Mir Jaffer much behind
“My fingers are crossed!!”
Be relax, don’t cross your fingers for a long period, hands can’t be left in this position permanently
i like the very first comment by Bawa
“The notification of appointment of senior most general as the new army chief affective after the retirement of present army chief should be issued as early as possible”
But i will suggest if their is any possibility PM should promote the Cheif of Air staff as Joint Cheif of army staff .
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