Gen Beg either had too much knowledge about american presence or he’s exagerating, ut in any case it is too serious matter to be ingnored, but who cares.
Some people must have benefitted big time if it was known to army and govt about large scale american presence in Pakistan and no one reacted, it was not without purpose. Facts should be told to people of Pakistan. Its not just Zardari or just Musharraf who was a CIA asset, I think there is more to it.
When we are holding the major cards why can’t we stand up for ourselves? I will never be on board with this War Of Terror, If they want people to fight this with vigor then they must all so be transparent with us, NO LIES.
We should get rid of all CIA and FBI and any other foreign agency from Pakistan. No more drone attacks, No more security agencies like XE(AKA Blackwater) in Pakistan. They should be no yanks or western military people in our country full stop.
Ultimately we should find a political situation to these problems and not start operations which keep us in this insane situation for the next 20 years.
To,
aftab said:
Ultimately we should find a political situation to these problems and not start operations which keep us in this insane situation for the next 20 years.
You are right but we will only find the political solution if America will allow us to do so . Our leader ship do not have the courage or will to take a political solution of the problem.Americans are enjoying their life and we are paying the price for the crime we did not committed .
Situation on ground is so clear. There is little optimism for Pakistanis in new policy only more pressure would be mounted on Pakistan. Then we don’t we have our own policy to respond?
طلعت حسین نے جنرل اسلم بیگ کو بالکل ٹھیک جواب دیا ہے کہ
ہمارے لیے یہ بہت آسان ہے کہ ہم اداروں کو رغید دیں اور یہ کہیں کہ ایک ادارے کا کام دوسرا ادارہ کرنے لگ جائے. اس طرح پاکستان نہیں چل سکتا. پارلیمان اگر کمزور بھی ہے اس کے اندر خامیاں بھی ہیں لیکن ہمیں پارلیمان کی طاقت بڑھوانے کی بات کرنی چاہئیے نہ کہ اسکو تبدیل کرکے کسی اور ادارے پر زمہ داری ڈالنی چاہئیے. جرنلز پارلیمان کے بارے میں تو بڑی باتیں کرتے ہیں. وہ یہ بھول جاتے ہیں کہ اسی ملک کے اندر جنرل مشرف نے دو مرتبہ آئیں توڑا. ابھی بھی انکا ادارہ انکے بیانات سے ملک کا نقصان ہوتے دیکھ رہا ہے لیکن انکے بارے میں کوئی بات نہیں کرتا. ہمیں ادارتی سوچ سے باہر نکلنا چاہئیے. پارلیمان ملک کی سپریم اتھارٹی ہے. اور اس اتھارٹی کو تسلیم کیا جانا چاہئیے
It looks like only military personals are taking care of the threat Pakistan is facing.Our parliament is alm0st non existent .We never hear any parliamentarian on security issues Pakistan is facing these days or the storm about to come. We only see them quarreling with each other for the sake of their corrupt leader ship.Their mental approach is so confined.
Unfortunately neither Pakistani politicians nor generals have shown that they are willing to die to safeguard Pakistan and Pakistanis. Both of them were responsible for 71 debacle and now again what is happenin around is due to their controversial cooperation with the united states against the interests of Pakistan.
Read this eye opening story keeping in mind Dr Aafia Siddqui.
– An American lady, arrested on Tuesday (December 1) while being illegally present in Khyber Agency has been found to have no passport or proper visa on her. The Political Agent, Khyber Agency, Mr Wazir, when contacted by TheNation, confirmed these facts and revealed that the lady, Ms Nicole Tung, hailing originally from Hongkong claimed she was an American national working for the American government. This was corroborated by the personnel of the US Consulate, when they visited the Political Agent’s office to get her released. According to an eye witness account, the US diplomats became abusive and started threatening the officials when the Political Agent informed them that she had been handed over to the Special Branch where a specially constituted Joint Investigation Team was interrogating her.
According to the Political Agent, he has asked the US diplomats to verify her passport claim and get her visa verified from Interior Ministry before seeking her release. Mr Wazir has refused to bend the law as he informed TheNation that the lady was near the Torkham border in questionable circumstances and the law must be allowed to take its course since she would be liable to prosecution on spying charges if investigations point in that direction.
Meanwhile, US Consulate Peshawar’s officials were spotted in the city whizzing from one office to the next, in vehicles bearing registration no. RLA3301 and JH-989, seeking the release of Ms. Nicole and with them was Major (retd) Sarzameen.
One big factor preventing our politics from coming on the right track is the phenomenon of dynastic politics. When someone becomes the head of a big political party, he expects his offspring to succeed him. This is not as it should be. It is like the monarchies of olden times, when rulers were not elected but were imposed. There is no harm in the son or daughter of the leader of a party from taking part in politics; however, from the time of adolescence he should not be the Prince of Wales. When this happens, the political party becomes a sort of gaddinashini.
When political parties dont believe in democracy within their parties how can we expect them to implement democracy in its true terms in the country. Our political parties believe or under stand democracy only to put them in assembly to democratic process after that they have nothing top do with democracy they are actually worst than dictators.If some body do not believe me he should look at Zardari and party.
There is some remarks of Mr. Talat is wrong regarding american are holding pak air bases in pakistan as pe rRet. General Mirza Aslam Baig and our military officers are quite now when they are team of Dectator on that time. but on that time dectator is final authority and now who is final authority who ask the arm forces and orders that closed all the area of pak air bases.
Mr. Talat your elected government is partners of usa and they are quite on this subject than how your arm forces dectate on this issue.
Mr. Talat ask the present government on this issue and than pass the remarks becouse they need dollars and nothing elese.
President Barack Obama followed the course of US presidents before him by giving in to the request of his commanding general for more troops, when he gave US commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, the 30,000 more troops he asked for. General McChrystal, who already has 70,000 US troops under his command, was merely following a tradition of all his predecessors, of asking for more troops if asked whether he had enough troops to accomplish the mission. The USA’s NATO allies have also pledged more troops in addition to already existing commitments, but the real bulk is going to come from the USA. Those 30,000 troops would mean two whole combat divisions, even though the peacetime US Army is meant to provide no more than eight divisions.
The most important question to be asked of General McChrystal is whether this increase by almost a third (from 70,000 to 100,000) will win the war for the USA. dont think so, these soldiers will go home in body bags Insha-Allah.
Our politicians and bureaucrats are busy defending themselves against charges of corruption after the publication of latest Transparency International Report and the naming and shaming of beneficiaries under the National Reconciliation Ordinance, 2007 (NRO). Does it come as a surprise to a Pakistani that those who rule here are corrupt? No! However, anyone harbouring doubts needs to consider what follows.
Politics and corruption are synonymous in Pakistan and the way things are, it is a fact that almost every politician is corrupt. This is not merely a general statement without proof but is based upon logic and reality.
Talat Hussain maid a valiant point when he said to both the generals that if Kiani is so loyal to the country why wont he rectify the wrongs done by his predecessor. Both the generals were pretty upset to hear that it shows they care more about their associates than the damage they have done to this country.
Why these generals tell the stories of wrong doings and corruption after the retirement why they do not come forward at the time when it happens. If they argue they are bound to they discipline or they are suppose to obey the orders then why dont they resign and come forward to tell the truth. If Gen Baig is right about American presence in Pakistan why Kiani about whom Gen Baig is always talking like he is a pivot for Pakistan wont spew the Americans out.What is he waiting for? Retired generals are no different than corrupt politicians who only like to boast their bosses.
In the previous show Gen Aziz confessed that on his orders troops moved to over throw Nawaz government. People who are demanding to try Musharaf under article 6 should not forget this man.He is equally responsible to obey unconstitutional orders.Catch him and set the example. Why generals consider them intangible.
You are absolutely right American drones are taking off from Pakistani soil and dropping bombs on innocent Pakistani people.Gen Baig said that there is big change in military attitude in last two months why Kiani wont hit those drones before they kill our innocent people.What is that change for just to cover personal interest.
Yes like Talat said military and civil government should have consensus on national issues but when both sides are incertus of each other it is impossible for them to work on common grounds.It is really unfortunate for the country that in this tumultuous situation no party is ready to pay any heed to the interest of Pakistan.They both want to make their own independent decisions without the interference of other party.
As far as Mr Talat is concerned, he comes across as right wing nationalist, without considering that Pakistan is surviving beyond its means with its Allegedly corrupt and incompetent leaders going around with the begging bowl in their hands, beggars can never be choosers. Allegedly In Pakistan, Law grinds the poor and rich man rules the law. Mr Talat is living in a dream world.
The Moral duty of a journalist is to read between the lines and find the truth for the public at large, when opinion and facts are mixed by a journalist, surly credibility is lost. The difference between literature and journalism is that journalism is unreadable and literature is not read.
I hope this message reaches Talat, and if he wishes, one could debate further, his naïve philosophy based on nationalistic views. I also hope this criticism is taken constructively and with open mind.
congratulations to Pakistan … congratulation to all of you …
today i think Army will not able to come again … till media is Free … I afraid if media would do any thing wrong … and/or …. government put ban on the free media .. as did by Ayub Khan and ZA Bhutto and then in less impact but still vigorously by Zia … I think future governments would not repeat those mistakes ….
@ mujtaba-ali
congratulations to Pakistan … congratulation to all of you …today i think Army will not able to come again
چھٹتی نہیں ہے ظالم منہ کو لگی ہوئی
ایک جیپ اور دو ٹرک ہی تو چاہییں. جب تک فوج کو حکومت میں حصہ نہیں ملے گا اور اس کے لیے آئیں میں ترمیم نہیں کی جائے گی یہ سلسلہ یونہی چلتا رہے گا. آخر ملٹری کی امپائر کا تحفظ کون کے گا؟ جب تک ترکی کی طرز کا کوئی بندوبست نہیں ہو جاتا یہ خطرہ سر پر منڈلاتا رہے گا خواہ پالیمنٹ میڈیا یا عدلیہ کتنی ہی طاقتور ہو جائیں
Its very valid point you raised.The reason normally raised for any Military quo is nothing more than a media statment but behind the scene is infact a greed for Power and intent of safeguarding the interests of Military Umpire.A very well said quote ” A country has Military while in Pakistan a Military have a country”.
When our analyst can decided that America going to stay in Afghanistan or leaving. Last many years we claimed that America destabilizing region to justify their stay and breaking Pakistan. America killed B Bhutto to destabilized Pakistan. Now suddenly we realize that America try to leave gracefully. Is it reality or we just try to boost our old allied Taliban?
Excellent Talat Hussain, he said the same what I was thinking. These army people only care about their institution and how can be gain power again. Musharaf wasn’t alone in making those decisions, whole top brass was with him. If top brass accepts every order of their chief even if it is against country interest and can’t do reasoning then we also need reforms in army. If army can protest against Kerry Luger bill then why not Black water or drone attacks? Army is still playing games, I hope Nawaz Sharif doesn’t become their puppet this time.
To,
logical said:
logical said:
لگتا ایسا ہے پاک فوج ایک مرتبہ پھر ملک فتہ کرے گی
If army can protest against Kerry Luger bill then why not Black water or drone attacks? Army is still playing games, I hope Nawaz Sharif doesn’t become their puppet this time.
Both of you are absolutely right it is no excuse that Musaraf allowed Americans troops we did not.Why wont you tell them to leave our country. Americans are working against the interest of our country and killing our people like Gen Baig said and our military is protecting them. America is right to say that there are safe heavens of terrorists in Pakistan those terrorists are Americans.
Excellent last minute comment by talat hussain. this was exactly what i was wondering. Gen Baig is saying on one end, with infinite pride, that Pak Army is responding on issues like kerry lugar bill etc. then why they can’t do anything about American bases and black water etc. it means everything is going on with their consent. this is the hypocrisy of these generals, when MUSH was giving everything to US then whole army was backing it and they did not have the balls to say or to do anything. even now everything is happening with their consent but they put blame on civilian government.
Gen Beg either had too much knowledge about american presence or he’s exagerating, ut in any case it is too serious matter to be ingnored, but who cares.
Some people must have benefitted big time if it was known to army and govt about large scale american presence in Pakistan and no one reacted, it was not without purpose. Facts should be told to people of Pakistan. Its not just Zardari or just Musharraf who was a CIA asset, I think there is more to it.
When we are holding the major cards why can’t we stand up for ourselves? I will never be on board with this War Of Terror, If they want people to fight this with vigor then they must all so be transparent with us, NO LIES.
We should get rid of all CIA and FBI and any other foreign agency from Pakistan. No more drone attacks, No more security agencies like XE(AKA Blackwater) in Pakistan. They should be no yanks or western military people in our country full stop.
Ultimately we should find a political situation to these problems and not start operations which keep us in this insane situation for the next 20 years.
To,
aftab said:
Ultimately we should find a political situation to these problems and not start operations which keep us in this insane situation for the next 20 years.
You are right but we will only find the political solution if America will allow us to do so . Our leader ship do not have the courage or will to take a political solution of the problem.Americans are enjoying their life and we are paying the price for the crime we did not committed .
Situation on ground is so clear. There is little optimism for Pakistanis in new policy only more pressure would be mounted on Pakistan. Then we don’t we have our own policy to respond?
Osama in Afghanistan
http://thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=92731
Talat ab Establishment se bhi panga lene laga hai …. he is so brave .. unbelieveable !!!
طلعت حسین نے جنرل اسلم بیگ کو بالکل ٹھیک جواب دیا ہے کہ
ہمارے لیے یہ بہت آسان ہے کہ ہم اداروں کو رغید دیں اور یہ کہیں کہ ایک ادارے کا کام دوسرا ادارہ کرنے لگ جائے. اس طرح پاکستان نہیں چل سکتا. پارلیمان اگر کمزور بھی ہے اس کے اندر خامیاں بھی ہیں لیکن ہمیں پارلیمان کی طاقت بڑھوانے کی بات کرنی چاہئیے نہ کہ اسکو تبدیل کرکے کسی اور ادارے پر زمہ داری ڈالنی چاہئیے. جرنلز پارلیمان کے بارے میں تو بڑی باتیں کرتے ہیں. وہ یہ بھول جاتے ہیں کہ اسی ملک کے اندر جنرل مشرف نے دو مرتبہ آئیں توڑا. ابھی بھی انکا ادارہ انکے بیانات سے ملک کا نقصان ہوتے دیکھ رہا ہے لیکن انکے بارے میں کوئی بات نہیں کرتا. ہمیں ادارتی سوچ سے باہر نکلنا چاہئیے. پارلیمان ملک کی سپریم اتھارٹی ہے. اور اس اتھارٹی کو تسلیم کیا جانا چاہئیے
It looks like only military personals are taking care of the threat Pakistan is facing.Our parliament is alm0st non existent .We never hear any parliamentarian on security issues Pakistan is facing these days or the storm about to come. We only see them quarreling with each other for the sake of their corrupt leader ship.Their mental approach is so confined.
Unfortunately neither Pakistani politicians nor generals have shown that they are willing to die to safeguard Pakistan and Pakistanis. Both of them were responsible for 71 debacle and now again what is happenin around is due to their controversial cooperation with the united states against the interests of Pakistan.
Read this eye opening story keeping in mind Dr Aafia Siddqui.
– An American lady, arrested on Tuesday (December 1) while being illegally present in Khyber Agency has been found to have no passport or proper visa on her. The Political Agent, Khyber Agency, Mr Wazir, when contacted by TheNation, confirmed these facts and revealed that the lady, Ms Nicole Tung, hailing originally from Hongkong claimed she was an American national working for the American government. This was corroborated by the personnel of the US Consulate, when they visited the Political Agent’s office to get her released. According to an eye witness account, the US diplomats became abusive and started threatening the officials when the Political Agent informed them that she had been handed over to the Special Branch where a specially constituted Joint Investigation Team was interrogating her.
According to the Political Agent, he has asked the US diplomats to verify her passport claim and get her visa verified from Interior Ministry before seeking her release. Mr Wazir has refused to bend the law as he informed TheNation that the lady was near the Torkham border in questionable circumstances and the law must be allowed to take its course since she would be liable to prosecution on spying charges if investigations point in that direction.
Meanwhile, US Consulate Peshawar’s officials were spotted in the city whizzing from one office to the next, in vehicles bearing registration no. RLA3301 and JH-989, seeking the release of Ms. Nicole and with them was Major (retd) Sarzameen.
One big factor preventing our politics from coming on the right track is the phenomenon of dynastic politics. When someone becomes the head of a big political party, he expects his offspring to succeed him. This is not as it should be. It is like the monarchies of olden times, when rulers were not elected but were imposed. There is no harm in the son or daughter of the leader of a party from taking part in politics; however, from the time of adolescence he should not be the Prince of Wales. When this happens, the political party becomes a sort of gaddinashini.
When political parties dont believe in democracy within their parties how can we expect them to implement democracy in its true terms in the country. Our political parties believe or under stand democracy only to put them in assembly to democratic process after that they have nothing top do with democracy they are actually worst than dictators.If some body do not believe me he should look at Zardari and party.
There is some remarks of Mr. Talat is wrong regarding american are holding pak air bases in pakistan as pe rRet. General Mirza Aslam Baig and our military officers are quite now when they are team of Dectator on that time. but on that time dectator is final authority and now who is final authority who ask the arm forces and orders that closed all the area of pak air bases.
Mr. Talat your elected government is partners of usa and they are quite on this subject than how your arm forces dectate on this issue.
Mr. Talat ask the present government on this issue and than pass the remarks becouse they need dollars and nothing elese.
President Barack Obama followed the course of US presidents before him by giving in to the request of his commanding general for more troops, when he gave US commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, the 30,000 more troops he asked for. General McChrystal, who already has 70,000 US troops under his command, was merely following a tradition of all his predecessors, of asking for more troops if asked whether he had enough troops to accomplish the mission. The USA’s NATO allies have also pledged more troops in addition to already existing commitments, but the real bulk is going to come from the USA. Those 30,000 troops would mean two whole combat divisions, even though the peacetime US Army is meant to provide no more than eight divisions.
The most important question to be asked of General McChrystal is whether this increase by almost a third (from 70,000 to 100,000) will win the war for the USA. dont think so, these soldiers will go home in body bags Insha-Allah.
Our politicians and bureaucrats are busy defending themselves against charges of corruption after the publication of latest Transparency International Report and the naming and shaming of beneficiaries under the National Reconciliation Ordinance, 2007 (NRO). Does it come as a surprise to a Pakistani that those who rule here are corrupt? No! However, anyone harbouring doubts needs to consider what follows.
Politics and corruption are synonymous in Pakistan and the way things are, it is a fact that almost every politician is corrupt. This is not merely a general statement without proof but is based upon logic and reality.
Talat Hussain maid a valiant point when he said to both the generals that if Kiani is so loyal to the country why wont he rectify the wrongs done by his predecessor. Both the generals were pretty upset to hear that it shows they care more about their associates than the damage they have done to this country.
Why these generals tell the stories of wrong doings and corruption after the retirement why they do not come forward at the time when it happens. If they argue they are bound to they discipline or they are suppose to obey the orders then why dont they resign and come forward to tell the truth. If Gen Baig is right about American presence in Pakistan why Kiani about whom Gen Baig is always talking like he is a pivot for Pakistan wont spew the Americans out.What is he waiting for? Retired generals are no different than corrupt politicians who only like to boast their bosses.
In the previous show Gen Aziz confessed that on his orders troops moved to over throw Nawaz government. People who are demanding to try Musharaf under article 6 should not forget this man.He is equally responsible to obey unconstitutional orders.Catch him and set the example. Why generals consider them intangible.
To,
machoman said:
You are absolutely right American drones are taking off from Pakistani soil and dropping bombs on innocent Pakistani people.Gen Baig said that there is big change in military attitude in last two months why Kiani wont hit those drones before they kill our innocent people.What is that change for just to cover personal interest.
Yes like Talat said military and civil government should have consensus on national issues but when both sides are incertus of each other it is impossible for them to work on common grounds.It is really unfortunate for the country that in this tumultuous situation no party is ready to pay any heed to the interest of Pakistan.They both want to make their own independent decisions without the interference of other party.
As far as Mr Talat is concerned, he comes across as right wing nationalist, without considering that Pakistan is surviving beyond its means with its Allegedly corrupt and incompetent leaders going around with the begging bowl in their hands, beggars can never be choosers. Allegedly In Pakistan, Law grinds the poor and rich man rules the law. Mr Talat is living in a dream world.
The Moral duty of a journalist is to read between the lines and find the truth for the public at large, when opinion and facts are mixed by a journalist, surly credibility is lost. The difference between literature and journalism is that journalism is unreadable and literature is not read.
I hope this message reaches Talat, and if he wishes, one could debate further, his naïve philosophy based on nationalistic views. I also hope this criticism is taken constructively and with open mind.
F.Zaman
koko2@hotmail.co.uk
congratulations to Pakistan … congratulation to all of you …
today i think Army will not able to come again … till media is Free … I afraid if media would do any thing wrong … and/or …. government put ban on the free media .. as did by Ayub Khan and ZA Bhutto and then in less impact but still vigorously by Zia … I think future governments would not repeat those mistakes ….
@ mujtaba-ali
congratulations to Pakistan … congratulation to all of you …today i think Army will not able to come again
چھٹتی نہیں ہے ظالم منہ کو لگی ہوئی
ایک جیپ اور دو ٹرک ہی تو چاہییں. جب تک فوج کو حکومت میں حصہ نہیں ملے گا اور اس کے لیے آئیں میں ترمیم نہیں کی جائے گی یہ سلسلہ یونہی چلتا رہے گا. آخر ملٹری کی امپائر کا تحفظ کون کے گا؟ جب تک ترکی کی طرز کا کوئی بندوبست نہیں ہو جاتا یہ خطرہ سر پر منڈلاتا رہے گا خواہ پالیمنٹ میڈیا یا عدلیہ کتنی ہی طاقتور ہو جائیں
@Bawa
Its very valid point you raised.The reason normally raised for any Military quo is nothing more than a media statment but behind the scene is infact a greed for Power and intent of safeguarding the interests of Military Umpire.A very well said quote ” A country has Military while in Pakistan a Military have a country”.
@ mir munsif
میر جی آپ نے بہت پتے کی بات کہ دی ھے کہ
A country has Military while in Pakistan a Military have a country
اب اس کے بعد کچھ لکھنا بنتا نہیں ھے. یہ گویا کوزے میں دریا کو سمودیا گیا ھے
[...] Islamabad Tonight – 3 December 2009 25 Comments [...]
[...] Islamabad Tonight – 3 December 2009 25 Comments [...]
When our analyst can decided that America going to stay in Afghanistan or leaving. Last many years we claimed that America destabilizing region to justify their stay and breaking Pakistan. America killed B Bhutto to destabilized Pakistan. Now suddenly we realize that America try to leave gracefully. Is it reality or we just try to boost our old allied Taliban?
لگتا ایسا ہے پاک فوج ایک مرتبہ پھر ملک فتہ کرے گی .
Excellent Talat Hussain, he said the same what I was thinking. These army people only care about their institution and how can be gain power again. Musharaf wasn’t alone in making those decisions, whole top brass was with him. If top brass accepts every order of their chief even if it is against country interest and can’t do reasoning then we also need reforms in army. If army can protest against Kerry Luger bill then why not Black water or drone attacks? Army is still playing games, I hope Nawaz Sharif doesn’t become their puppet this time.
To,
logical said:
logical said:
لگتا ایسا ہے پاک فوج ایک مرتبہ پھر ملک فتہ کرے گی
If army can protest against Kerry Luger bill then why not Black water or drone attacks? Army is still playing games, I hope Nawaz Sharif doesn’t become their puppet this time.
Both of you are absolutely right it is no excuse that Musaraf allowed Americans troops we did not.Why wont you tell them to leave our country. Americans are working against the interest of our country and killing our people like Gen Baig said and our military is protecting them. America is right to say that there are safe heavens of terrorists in Pakistan those terrorists are Americans.
Excellent last minute comment by talat hussain. this was exactly what i was wondering. Gen Baig is saying on one end, with infinite pride, that Pak Army is responding on issues like kerry lugar bill etc. then why they can’t do anything about American bases and black water etc. it means everything is going on with their consent. this is the hypocrisy of these generals, when MUSH was giving everything to US then whole army was backing it and they did not have the balls to say or to do anything. even now everything is happening with their consent but they put blame on civilian government.
[...] Islamabad Tonight – 3 December 2009 32 Comments [...]
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