Please cast your vote on the extremism solution here
Intelligence Squared arranged a debate with various experts on Pakistan’s issues related to War of Terror and their possible solutions. The video of the event was published on the IQ2 website and is being republished here at PKPolitics.
Pakistan is the world’s tinderbox: a nuclear-armed state, riven by ethnic and religious conflict, home to the Taliban and al-Qa’eda, poised on a knife edge between secularism and Islamicism, an ally of America yet seething with anti-Americanism. Can America help it achieve stability, or has US intervention proved to be more of the cause of Pakistan¹s problems than its cure?
Richard Lindley introduces this debate on the future of Pakistan.
Opening the discussion, General Sir David Richards argues that the international community has been terribly good at coming up with bright ideas, but terribly poor at implementing them.
Imran Khan is heavily critical of the ways in which General Musharraf, President Asif Ali Zardari and the US have carried out their military offensive in the tribal areas of Pakistan since 2004. He said they had failed to distinguish between al-Qaida and the Taliban, which held limited ideological beliefs.
Anatol Lieven suggests that Pakistan, not Afghanistan, is our key strategic interest in the long term, and that the Western presence is driving radicalisation. He said he had been shocked to find that many Pakistanis regard the Taliban as they did the Mujahedeen, and support the Taliban’s right to fight against foreign occupiers.
Jonathan Paris foresees that, over the next one to three years, Pakistan will neither turn into a failed state, nor grow significantly. It would, he predicted, muddle through. Pakistan, he suggests, is not attracting enough investment, and needs to break away from the IMF stranglehold.
Farzana Shaikh reassesses the claim that the US is primarily responsible for Pakistan’s problems. Instead, she proposes, the country’s malaise lies in its historic conflict with India and uncertainty over the role of religion.
Jaswant Singh Jaswant Singh discusses the Future of Pakistan. Since the start of the 20th century, the whole of the South Asian region has been at the crossroads of a collapsed empire, be it Ottoman, How is it possible, Singh asked, that 60 years after Independence, the region was once again subject to the whims of the West?
William Dalrymple points out that while the media has been only too eager to praise India as an emerging superpower, neighbouring Pakistan has been portrayed as a failed state – and the only US ally bombed regularly by Washington. This contrast, Dalrymple said, was a huge exaggeration.
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Questions to the Panel from the Audience:
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
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Let me summarize all the comments before anyone puts them up.
Here it is:
“Farzana Shaikh is an Israeli agent”
To me she nailed it.
Imran Khan again rocks. He is only political leader here in Pakistan who tell truth and seek truth otherwise there is no hope.
Excellent views of IMRAN KHAN but no future to form Govt in Pakistan. The reason is having no enough political stuff in his party.
Continued counterinsurgency military operations until we are in control of all of our land. After which a round of negotiations may follow.
This isn’t a political struggle..and should not be treated as such.
Imran Khan is weak. He speaks of a radicalized tribal region and everything that has happened insofar and then expects an organic solution.
A counterinsurgency operation which takes many dynamics into view is the only solution. (similar to what america has just put in place http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/2009/December/091202/091203-engel-big-9a.jpg )
@Shock
Far from nailing it.. no mullahs in Pakistan have ever received public support… and certainly do not hold any moral high ground!!
One thing that I do not agree about Imran Khan is that at times he tends to give a soft corner to the extremists. Pakistan can not afford that. We must fight militancy till we whitewash it from our soil completely. The views of others were interesting to cater extremism and should be implemented.
I believe Imran Khan is absolutely right. The Americans think that military solution can be achieved. Taliban in Afghanistan are fighting a freedom war – their country is occupied by foreign forces and they are fighting for its liberation. So we do not have absolutely any reason to criticise Taliban of Afghanistan. That is their internal problem.
Now as for Pakistan – until 2004 there wasnt any problem in Pakistan because Pak Forces did not go in Tribal Areas. But once they went in there and they were seen to stooges of American forces and its clear we have been directly assisting Americans to fight a war in Afghanistan – so what should we expect – flowers from that side. Thousands of innocent woman and children have been ruthlessly killed and abused in Afghanistan by the NATO and American forces – so obviously there would be a reaction.
As for Pakistan we had been double crossed in the sense that first we were asked to give airports and logistical support to Americans so that they can invade Afghanistan and we did but in that process we forgot to get clear cut assurance that Northern Alliance and India would not be involved in Afghanistan – the result was that Americans used us for dirty work and gave all the fruits to India who had no business in Afghanistan because that is not their neighbour by any standards.
I believe that Pakistan forces would become embroiled in FATA forever and then would become so weak due to fatigue and lack of resources and the way the economy is going down that it would weaken Pakistan itself to such an extent that American and Indian forces would be able to move in first secure our nuclear assets and then divide Pakistan.
We are in the same situation as that of East Pakistan – Imran is absolutely right that we should negogiate with Taliban – because US is already doing it in Afghanistan – and then use them to flush out Al Qaida and criminals. But if we believe that we can fight and impose solution on them – we are on a wrong track. After all FATA is their land – they have been living there for thousands of years – we have helped Americans invade their land and kill them by drones and then we expect from them that they should send flowers to us.
The real enemy is America because its intelligent and clever and the has a long term plan.
Zardari wants that military should continue to be involved in FATA because firstly it would distract them from him and secondly it would weaken them in the long run. He is playing American game.
Mr. Khan’s assertion that the Taliban and Al-Qaida are a separate entity does not seem very conceivable, and the ideology as he claims does not differ a lot. Al-Qaida provides the intellectual inspiration and grounds to Taliban which we can term as the “foot-soldiers”. So Al-Qaida is pretty much the brain! How can they be separated? From my perspective they are cohesive and correlated.
@ammarisb
I think what IK says is that they WERE seperate entities. If you listen, he refers to the Talibs as being religious fundamentalists who did not possess the arsenal or the capabilities which Al-Qaeda had. As they have merged now through whatever reasons, you have the Al-Qaeda brain working behind the Taliban who are executing their plans as you mention yourself.
LONG LIVE PAKISTAN & LONG LIVE IMRAN KHAN….
IK always rocks….He is the only leader , who will bring Pakistan in first line of world Nations and make Pakistan a batter place for live for every one. Inshallah
LONG LIVE PAKISTAN & LONG LIVE IMRAN KHAN….
First I’d like to lodge a protest that for some reason when I voted it showed a sign that you have already done so,
secondly,
@ c hussain and others, I’m tired of saying this on different on different forums, that Imran Khan is factually incorrect when he says that no problem existed before 2004. In 1995-2001 Taliban was busy shooting Shia professionals all over Pakistan, they refused to handover any terrorist involved in such activities and asked the Nawaz government to forget about them being handed over as they were ghazis.
The Taliban can deny all the bomb blasts, but why did Maulana Fazlullah not take action against hundreds of his men who forced many to marry off their daughters to the Talibs? Imran Khan’s belief that these were not Taliban but Indian agents is laughable because when the government talks about war against these Indian agents he says these are patriotic Pakistanis.
It is our land, the likes of Imran Khan said the same things for Swat and continued to lash out against the government when it started army action in Swat. However, when government successfully defeated the Talibs, we saw people of Swat coming out in crowds to celebrate 14th August. They even celebrated eid with Pakistan unlike the rest of Pakhtoonkhwa
Views of Imran KHAN EXCELLIENT , He is only Hope of Pakistani Nation,,
@ ammarisb
at the moment .. taliban and al-qaeda are fighting side by side .. but if u look closer … they were and they have always been entirely 2 different classes … taliban have been typically pahtoon or pro pakhtoon people with low literacy rate and with an agenda of enforcing shariah in a certain area … on the other hand … Al-qaeda is very resourceful international terrorist group …. who has a generation of highly educated and motivated personals and has reach to high end technology with objectives to fight anti Islamic forces any where and every where…
now about the pakistani taliban .. the taliban in Afghanistan have so many times denounced and disowned them saying that they have nothing to do with them .. see if u start calling ur self mujtaba ali … u will not become me .. or vise versa ….
TTP is a foreign (Middle east) sponsored group which has main objective to destabilized pakistan … i have researched a lot and asked many people who have some insight and concluded that they are being funded indirectly by india
Totally agree with Imran Khan…
Imran shines really every where.
PERVEZ ELAHI is the future, a visionary man,watch his interview with HAMID MEER
david said:
PERVEZ ELAHI is the future, a visionary man,watch his interview with HAMID MEER
——————-
ہا ہا ہا ہا ، بھائی آپ نے اچھا لطیفہ سنایا ہے
Supreme court issues the detailed judgement on NRO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jan2010-daily/19-01-2010/index.html
Fingers Crossed !!!!!!!!!!
jaswant singh sounds possitive….imran khan is a courgeous leader who roars again and i trust him…he is honest and dedicated ….the only solution for americans to go away from afghanistan….
they have lost the war.
Wow, I am impressed! Finally in the history of Pakistan, Punjab has created a visionary.
This is an incredible moment since the demise of RANJEET SINGH KANA and MIRZA GHULAM QADIANI. His highness used to be known as “PEJA KIRLA”. May God save us all from this visionary?
From where they have found this Farzana Witch. I am sure after the conference she would have flied away in her witchcraft broom.
http://www.operationlettertosanta.com/Christmas%20images/Wallpapers/witch_broom.jpg
hahaha pervaiz Elahi is visionary……the best joke i ever heard..
Lets be honest, regardless of the comments that Imran Khan made in his speech, do you think anyone from our political elite can talk like this in any international debate forum. Ch. Shujat,, Sheikh Rashid, Asfand yar walli, Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Moulana Fazlu, shehbaz sharif, even nawaz ( can not speak English without reading and dictation), Perviz Illahi, etc. don’t you think Imran Can represent our country in a better way internationally(after a little bit of grooming). Don’t you think he can be a pride for the country? For God sake don’t test the politicians who have pushed our country in the darkness again and again. Please wake up and make wise choices. If you don’t do it this time we will never be able to stand on our feet and will become another Afghanistan very soon.
I felt proud after listening IK. now the world knows that there is some one in Pakistan who can come and speak . Trust me he can be proved another Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
@nonaminapupa
You said that there is no one in Pakistan that can speak like Imran. Well, what about Pervez Musharraf? I think Musharraf can speak well on international forums like this one. Speaking skills shouldn’t be the criteria to judge a leader, especially in the case of Pakistan.
@Shock
What is the criteria to reprsesne Pakistanon International forum. Juggler, looter, hyprocrite, plundrer is the criteria?
@ Shock , Mushi bring this hell to our homes ,he is an army man , and every army man trained like this to face International Forums. To respond in the best manner.
Imran pointing out that the attack on GHQ and they attack on the Masjid in Rawalpindi was an inside job.
@ wbuttar
butter bhai … either u or me .. didnt get shock … i think ………
@shock. Maybe it is time that we stop playing the blame game on eachother. No1 brought this hell to our land but we people ourselves did. Why do we blame musharaff? The blame is on us. We should reflect tolerant views and moderate ones in our society rather than pointing fingers at this crucial moment.
@Mujtaba ! The ethnic composition of TTP is diverse as it derives and is now also supported by former militant group such as L.E.T and Jesh-e-Mohammad, keeping them in context I do not find the argument of Indian elements as conspirators
OSAMA 10. THE US: 0.
Bin Laden proclaimed his grand strategy in the 1990’s. He would oust the modern `Crusaders’ by luring the US and its allies into a series of small, debilitating, hugely expensive wars to bleed and slowly bankrupt the US economy, which he called America’s Achilles’ heel.
Bloody attacks would enrage the US and lure it into one quagmire after another.
Bin Laden was dismissed by western intelligence as a crackpot and “enragé.”
But both the dim-witted President Gorge W. Bush and the intelligent President Barack Obama fell right into Osama’s carefully-laid trap.
http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/osama–the-us-.aspx
Taliban leaders ‘offered asylum’ under London peace plan
After eight years of intensifying fighting Nato commanders have acknowledged political negotiation is the only solution to the worsening fighting.
They are now backing a “carrot and stick” strategy of more troops to reverse the Taliban’s military momentum coupled with incentives for fighters to rejoin society.
International donors are preparing to pay hundreds of millions of pounds towards the scheme, with Japan and the US already allocating substantial budgets.
In the first phase, junior fighters, who commanders believe are mainly motivated by money, will be offered jobs, training and education if they lay down their weapons and renounce violence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7036691/Taliban-leaders-offered-asylum-under-London-peace-plan.html
Imran TTP Khan is lost.
Every time I listen to him, I get even more confused about what this guy wants. I think he is trying very hard to come up with a theory and he is not getting there. hence the blame game.
@UK_wale_bhai
Stay with your marasi musharaf. Inshallah Mushi will be hanged for killing many innocent Pakistanis. We want him to be trialed through the court of justice. Why your coward JARNAIL ran away from Pakistan?
@ Revolution
marasi is still better than zani
we will see who trials who.
My honest and humble openion is, that Imran Khan is an Idealist. Being a great fan of Imran Khan since childhood, I would like to differ a bit here. I believe that the way forward will be a combination of Military Operation and Political Dialogue. None of them alone will get the results we want. For any future government, no matter who is the front man, Imran, Mushi or Nawaz, or a (Imi + Mushi+ MQM) or (Imi + Nawaz), the times will be tougher than ever. Techoncrates will have to be brought in the management of the country.
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