The Rawalpindi Cantonment Board headed by Pakistan Army wants to close several schools near GHQ permanently for sake of their own security.
The RCB Chief said that “It is a part of policy that schools will not be allowed in residential areas due to security threats, traffic problems and noise pollution”.
This is an extreme example of hypocrisy as the schools are always located within hearts of residential areas in all over the civilized world so that it is convenient for children to go to nearby schools. Similarly, the military bases are located far away from residential and urban areas, so that these areas could be used by civilians for residential and business activities, without any sight and noise of military vehicles roaming around in civilian areas.
RCB Chief Executive Officer Adil Rafiq told ‘The News’ that they would close down all private schools in cantonment’s residential areas due to several reasons, including security threats. “We cannot afford any school near the GHQ due to the prevailing law and order situation,” he said. He said that the RCB enforces orders of higher authorities. “It is a part of policy that schools will not be allowed in residential areas due to security threats, traffic problems and noise pollution,” he added.
NO SCHOOLS IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS!!!!!! ONLY GHQs ALLOWED
Clearly the presence of schools is a big security threat, and cause for traffic problems for ordinary citizens. Whereas, the movement of generals to GHQ and the ‘routes’ pose no traffic problems at all, and the presence of the GHQ has led to no problems for the residence in terms of security because no one ever tries to attack the GHQ its only the schools that are attacked. Attacks on schools in Rawalpindi = 0, and there has been an attack on the GHQ.
Plus, it is also important to note that most people near the GHQ area would have to travel far away to get education and this might actually discourage people from going to schools if there are too far away- think of the financial implications for parents in terms of transport.
And if the policy of no schools in Residential Areas to DHA ke school bhee band kar do bhai… jin se app lakhon rupee lete ho…
Taliban closes schools, and GHQ closes schools….. only difference the ones closed down by Taliban have a chance of reopening.
Army’s Ordnance Depots can exist in residential areas but Schools are not allowed !
Wow, it seems Pak Army is now following footsteps of their love-children i.e. Talibans
such a shame…. In whole world the schools are among the residential areas…. schools are not warehouses or business complex or trading places… schools are where young children study and they are all over the world within locallities and within the residential area range, so that young children can walk theirself to school or their parents can take and pick them quickly …
Dear ALL
I think President Zardari is involved in this conspiracy against our education system. I hope our beloved Ch Iftikhar will take action against President and will summon him in the court of justice for justice.
By the way its a very boring topic as I am so used to condemn the govt but I do not see anything against politicians and govt in this news item.
By the way in what country education institutions or ammunition depots are located in military zones? For safety reason we need to appreciate this decision.
But again I fear that our talented Ch Iftikhar can take “sue moto” against Zardari.
Lets pray.
Aftab
First of all I would say that the most pressing issue to discuss is the brutal death of a young lady in Lahore and a discussion about child slaves named as servants in Pakistan. PKP must start a thread about it and the extremely stupid and inappropriate behavior of the so called, educated and law abiding? community of the lawyers in Pakistan.
As for Pakistan army and its cantonment in the hart of the cities, is a known issue in Pakistan. The British always kept the military installations far away from the city so the Army does not get close to the politics of the general public. The one big reason Pakistan had so many marshal laws and corruption in the army brass is and was, due to not moving these cantonments from almost the harts of the growing cities.
Due to that the Army brass made billions of dollars to start the residential housing projects and made a lot of the retired and serving top brass, over night milliners , if not billionaires.
Also due the close approximates from the political circuses and the opportunities of the easy pray of the public funds by the ruling elites under autocracy or so called democracy, which in reality was no more than “Kleptocracy”, “literally rule by thieves“, the military top brass got envious of these people and came in power with the slogans of eradicating the corruption and these “Plutocracies and Kleptocracies”.
We all know the rest of the story, if you don’t, ask me…….We must move all the cantonments, at least 10 to 50 miles away from the populations and keep buffer zones in between or move them if necessary to increase the residential areas by the public instruments with the approvals of the parliament and the oversight of the Judiciary.
Zardari slaughters one black goat every day to ward off evil – as reported on yahoo
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100127/tsc-oukoe-uk-pakistan-zardari-011ccfa.html
@levithans. I agree. Schools are clearly security threats. The safety of Pakistanis should be the top priority in the current situation where militancy is on the rise. We must praise army for taking such steps to stop something from bad taking place.
why cant we see this policy as saving the children from attack on GHQ or other important buildings etc, why we always see by our own glasses or what we want to see
Why do we always try to misinterpret every news? look in the largest interest of the country…the roads near GHQ get heavily crowded during schools and office hours which is often a hindrance in army movement in Rawalpindee especially after the Attack on GHQ,its must to take some steps for security reasons…so see if they have decided to close the schools not because of any personal reasons or against education but to secure the place…
I don’t see this happening and this is just to secure a safe route for Kiyani and nothing else.
No School should be in cantonment areas
GHQ should not be close to residential area
cantonment areas should not be used for residence ,school or any business
cantonment areas should be out side the cities .
Remember army is to protect the “borders” …..strange !! isn’t it ?
I think Mush d*g was right in trying to get GHQ outside Rawalpindi.
Its good to have army not near us. They can take GHQ to a jungle. Good riddance!
These cantonments were designed primarily to control and subjugate locals by the British. Why not to move big garrisons away from the metropolitan areas such as into the Salt Ranges? Would be a good place to get baked in a “Constitutional” training there. The vacated prime lands can be put to use for trade, commerce and industrial production – Vital ingredients for the good of people.
Vast majority of United State forces are stationed far away from population centers commonly know as Fort This and Fort That.
100% agree with Azizi
Army cantonments should be far away from general public. There have been attacks on army before and innocent civilians died. Army should move out of cities and give valuable land back to Pakistani people so that play grounds, parks etc can be built on that…….
GHQ should be moved to Islamic Emirate of Waziristan so they are closer to their taliban babies.
@Believer
Mushy was not taking GHQ to jungle but his plan was to move it in the heart of Islamabad near president house I think. He was going to spend billions of rupees on it, I know it will happen some day. Nowadays army is just busy in building its image so that they can come into power again in future…….
Schools are not a security threat to Rawalpindi city, actually GHQ is a threat to whole of the city. It is situated in almost center of city, govt should shift GHQ to some place where there is neither a residential area nor commercial buildings, so that innocent civilians should be safe.
Its not that easy to move GHQ to anyother place because it will cost them billions of rupees under present economy crises…this was the reason why General Kiyani last year stopped the construction of GHQ in sector E11 because it was a project of about 60 billion rupees started by Mushy and we couldn’t afford to spend this amount of money when our economy was going down plus the residential sectors near E11 and the areas of Margalla Hills were declared sensitive….so they had to continue with GHQ Rawalpindi….
Lagay raho munna bahi
They grab power saying that bl**dy civilians can’t rule and in their own glorious rule they weakened the police and other institutions, allowed Taliban to conquer Pakistan and now forced to fight properly, the civilians they are paid by to fight have to suffer. Why can’t they just get the hell out of our cities, no but that would mean they’ll have to forgo the habit of stealing our prime land in cities all over Pakistan.
We Pakistanis as a nation are never content with anything happening around us. Same goes for this, now that the schools are being shifted people are complaining about the GHQ, well lets consider a few instances and the inherent problems that we will see in them.
First, lets consider shifting the GHQ out, where will we shift it to? Islamabad of course next to the headquarters of the Air force and Navy. If that is done, people would be crying their lungs out that it’s too expensive and blah blah!
Second, as much important education is to all of us, we must also recognize the fact that the GHQ is way larger than the schools to shift and involves a lot more logistics, also the so called “schools” are opened in small house. Aside from charging hefty fees, perhaps, they might have to now consider shifting to proper purpose made campus for children. They are private schools after all so will be cash strapped!
Third, as much as we criticize the government and the army for its fallacies in such policies we fail to see the complete spectrum. In this case, the third point being that, the fault also lies within us. How? Well, we all know how people consider it a ’status symbol’ when they have residential plots in cantonments. If people simply stop using cantonments as residential colonies that would better the security threats that are posed to their very own lives. As long as we live in cantonments, we are ourselves tacitly agreeing to live in the precarious situations such as next to ammunition depots and other security installations.
In a nut shell, I am in no way defending this policy. However, all i am saying is that people should consider other facets of this issue too. And before we start maligning the Army or the Government for such things we should consider that it is our own practices that led to this situation. Just like it is oft said, Be the change you want to see in the world.
Dear ALL
Is there any law to get permission to open a private school in an area? Its one of the most profitable business to rent a house, and open an school. There should be some rules but who cares?
I support to close all schools in sensitive areas.
Aftab
A shamefull act of Pak Army?
Pakistan joins war against Houthis in Yemen: Report
Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:59:45 GMT
Pakistan has reportedly sent an army combat unit to Yemen to join the war against the Shia fighters in the country’s north.
An informed source with the Pakistani daily Jang has said that a 300-strong unit of Special Forces has been deployed in Yemen.
US media reports say the US military and intelligence agencies are involved in joint operations with Yemeni troops.
Yemen launched a military offensive against the Houthi fighters in the northern Sa’ada Province last August. Saudi Arabia joined forces with the Yemeni government in November.
Sana’a accuses the Shia fighters of violating terms of a ceasefire in 2009 by taking foreign visitors hostage.
The Houthis accuse the Yemeni government of violating their civil rights and marginalizing them politically, economically, and religiously.
The Shia fighters say the offensives launched against the northern regions mostly target residential areas and result in civilian casualties.
Islamabad’s controversial decision is expected to cause public outrage in a country, which is similarly targeted by indiscriminate missile attacks.
The Pakistani public holds regular demonstrations to condemn Washington’s drone attacks on remote tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.
The US claims that the attacks are aimed at eliminating militant positions. However, they usually result in civilian casualties.
It is all beacuse of Taliban terrorists that even Army is scared of school presence in their suburb. What can be written here? We (our nation) have reached to this point where schools are being closed due to threat of handful Taliban terrorists. Talibanisation and religious extremism are growing in our country and fake moulvis and fake political leaders like Imran Khan supported by Jamat Islami are in the forefront to support such extremist elements in our society. This is high time to eradicate Taliban and extremism therat once and for all.
@alirazais
Good explanation!
@SweetTruth
Do you live in a fools world? why would Army be scared of these schools?lol
Do we actually need such a big Army? The army which has never done anything for the country, lost every war they fought, made a history by surrendering in great numbers, kept on killing the helpless citizens and democracy and now they want to kill the education. It would be better to get rid of the Army and save the money to spend it on the construction of Pakistan.
Yes we need Army and its because of this Army that we are still surviving with continues threats from indian and Afghanistan border when our corrupt leaders have done nothing ever to save this land….and mind you we havn’t lost every war…except a few generals (well there are black sheeps in every profession everywhere in the world) rest of the soldiers have faught so bravely everytime….hundreds of them were martyred…ur completely unaware of our Army’s capibility….please rejoin a school to learn the facts….
We must seriously think about getting out of this so called american “War on Terror” otherwise there will be no solution available. IK’s stance on the issue is very realistic and when the US and Afghan governament’s are seriously involved in negociations with the Talibans, it is high time we too try the same. Otherwise the USA as usual will leave and our western border will remain hostile even though there will be peace in Afghanistan.
Both the Army is our own and children are also our own. Even those tribals are also Pakistanis.
Help IK in his sincere advice for starting a dialofue process without delay
So what? Why are we even discussing this topic? Also, what’s up with some of you guys trying to malign the army? I think even with all the shortcomings, Army deserves respect from us. Army does not have Musharaf in it anymore. So calm down
I agree with Deevav… Army is our own children they are not from India.
We need unity!
In an objective debate we all have a right to discuss issues pertaining to our own brothers or son’s, if they are following a wrong path. Pakistani army is not a sacred cow, like the Bhutto’s dynastical Mafia gets the certificate of “Sahaddet“, even if they choke to death with their own vomit or alcoholic coma. Pakistan army is playing a role of mercenary army in Afghanistan since the Eighties and has a large hand in destabilizing one of the most poor countries in the world.
Now they are fighting a new war for money in Yemen for one of the most corrupt, ruthless family Mafia’s in the world, the Saudi royal oil Mafia. Nwaz Sharif is also their “pet”, friend. He even mimics their lifestyle in Pakistan and the dictatorial for life party leadership with the whole clan, the party of the Nawaz Sharif Monarchy.
If your son is a mass murderer and a criminal, at least you should not condone his behavior. No one on this site gave any response to the article about Yemen, except my good friend and mentor in Pakistan. He replied to me in a very few but pointing words.
“Oh! another our war. Gashti ka eik aur gahag.”
Pakistan army also cost us the East Pakistan and it is taking us to another disaster in the Afghan border and tribal areas to please the American paymasters. Any Army brass which accepts a habitual criminal, a open fraud, a psychopath, habitual liar, a grave worshipper, a thief of the poor nation, a money launderer ,a known foreign agent, ethnic Mafia boss , undereducated, mentally deformed and a man who will sell his mother to keep the stolen wealth, will be willing to murder family members and make deals with the enemies of the nation for his best interest, Asif Ali Madari, as their Commander -n-a Thief has no respect from me.
Instead of being ashamed of your current and past Army elites, you are proud of these obedient servants of the Master race?
“Pakistan joins war against Houthis in Yemen: Report”
@jenniferkhan
“Do we actually need such a big Army?”
Then how are you planning to fight against enemies who are trying to attack Pakistan from all sides since its creation? It is Pak Army which is backbone for Pakistan and source of fear for the enemies and is only disciplined, energetic and sound institution in Pakistan.
“The army which has never done anything for the country,”
Who do you think have been stopping India and other internal and external forces from occupying Pakistan? Our police? Everyone knows their strength. and we as a nation keep on fighting with one another and can’t even get rid of corrupt elements of the politics and society!
“lost every war they fought,”
Did not happen this way. 1971 happened mainly because of corrupt and incapable political and army leadership although soldiers were fighting bravely and 1965 was fought bravely defending Pakistan against much bigger Indian army.
“made a history by surrendering in great numbers,”
That was act of stupid and coward political and army leadership although common soldiers did not give up.
“kept on killing the helpless citizens and democracy”
This was done by some incompetent leaders of army especially in the time of Musharraf, he not only damaged country hugely but also army. It was his cowardliness that he instead of being strong against demands of USA and Co. or at least being neutral, became part of their fight.
As far as democracy is concerned there is big fault of politicians in corrupting the system although army also did make mistakes. Almost all of those politicians did huge corruption and they don’t have even democracy in their own parties. Only those people can survive there who are either from influential families or are very rich!
“and now they want to kill the education.”
Our educational system is itself quite feeble specially the school system. There are thousands of private schools with huge fees but none knows what their standard is, what do they teach and how will it help children. It has become a business and there are no monitoring authorities. Parents are just crazy in sending the children to very costly schools but don’t monitor and know what actually children are learning, we have left our children in the hands of private and other schools! This is indeed a extremely critical aspect because our children are our future and we need to educate them very well and in balanced way including religious education.
By the way only very few schools have been asked to close their campuses because of certain critical reasons and not all schools of Pakistan and also they are free to run their schools at other places. It is quite possible that some middle solution would be found.
“It would be better to get rid of the Army and save the money to spend it on the construction of Pakistan.”
Army is fully important for Pakistan and at the same time we need to make other systems stronger like political, educational, judicial, social etc. If we can have a corruption free and competent system then problems will be minimized. Pakistan has been bestowed with all what is needed we just need to plan and utilize it properly.
@ConcernedAmericanPak
I don’t know exactly what is going on in Yemen but it is utmost important that any action there be done with care and dialogue be preferred! There is no need to escalate unnecessary conflicts with anyone! The reports that there are people of so called Al-Qaida in Yemen makes this whole thing quite suspicious and it increases the suspicions that there are some people who are inciting two groups for a fight. There are so many Arabs, what are they doing, they better need to take care of their houses? It could be a very much trap for the Pakistan army just to engage it further and to increase its enemies especially within Muslims! Our enemies know that to break us, they need to bring Muslims against us!!!
These days a lot is being said about Afghanistan and it is very much true that Pakistan knows the ground realities of Afghanistan very well. We, however, should keep in mind that we have been part of the problem there. Pakistan and USA trained those fighters in Afghanistan and then instead of integrating them in society and helping them, we helped their destructing through USA and Co. and that is a big cheating and their trust has been badly damaged!
So in future we need to be very careful that we don’t further hurt them. S. Arabia and Pakistan have been asked to talk to Taliban but this mediation could prove very costly and dangerous for us if Taliban are further cheated in this process by anyone.
Taliban have been undefeated since last 9 years and they would be, so we need to keep in mind that we don’t create any rift with them because those external forces have to leave Afghanistan sooner or later and then Taliban would be big power in Afghanistan! I think it would be tried hard to bring Pakistan army and Taliban in confrontation and we must avoid it!
whay they don’t declare official war, what school owners and students will do?>
@Zaheer
Valid points……
Army cantonment and GHQ had been there for more than hundred years and it was away from the city as such. Islamabad was not there at all – so this area was out of the city limits. Moreover Rawalpindi was not even a capital city until 1962 when Ayub moved the capital from Karachi to Rawalpindi until Islamabad was built. GHQ had been built in Rawalpindi for security reasons as Lahore and Karachi were unsuitable for that purpose. Morever GHQ guys did want to shift GHQ to Islamabad where sector E 4 was earmarked and in fact Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Naval Headquarters have already moved there but building of GHQ was stopped because it was considered to be a wastage of money.
Now if GHQ wants for security of the country (not for themselves) that schools are moved because they can be targeted by Taliban and it would be impossible to ensure hundred percent security then whats the big deal.
Yes in different countries schools are in residential areas but not like private schools mushrooming without any planning for parking and safety for the children.
We have a tendency to blame Army for every evil in Pakistan and there a concerted campaign against them with support from Indian and Jewish lobbies in order to weaken them but remember if Pakistan Army is weakened or finished – Pakistan would be gone. The Indian and NATO forces are on East and West border of Pakistan ready to move and so called Taliban are their forward units engaged in neutralizing the army and fighting a psychological warfare in order to bring fatigue to both the army and the population.
To C hussain and others defending army as usual, I do not blame army out of habit. They have ruled the country for past eight out of ten years. During their tenures they make it a point to grab all the prime lands and declare them cantonments, examples include the parking area of National Stadium Karachi, hundreds of acres of land along Shahrah e Faisal and Super Highway in Karachi and land adjacent to Gwadar port. They destroy civilian institutions, spend more money on cantonments forcing many to shift to those localities because of inadequate facilities in civilian areas. If they cannot protect the borders and cannot resist power then they should resign and go home. We will be much better off without them. It is their fault Pakistan is going through this unending terrorism in the first place.
Not one officer of worthy designation resigned during Mush’s eight year rule, Indians built consulates and they kept mum, Taliban turned against Pakistan, started killing thousands and they kept mum, they were too busy building DHAs all over the country, getting contractual jobs in government institutions, occupying embassies and consulates. They are paid to protect us not the other way around.
@skunk
“To C hussain and others defending army as usual, I do not blame army out of habit.”
Everybody is free to criticize anyone.
“They have ruled the country for past eight out of ten years.”
That is true but one can’t blame only army for that. Our politicians, religious people and also judiciary have been part of the problem! I am always opposed to army rule.
“During their tenures they make it a point to grab all the prime lands and declare them cantonments, examples include the parking area of National Stadium Karachi, hundreds of acres of land along Shahrah e Faisal and Super Highway in Karachi and land adjacent to Gwadar port.”
This seems to be pure exaggeration that army grabbed all the prime lands! Firstly, the places you have mentioned are not the all the prime lands of Pakistan. Secondly, where are the proofs for your claim? Thirdly, it is very much possible that army needed some areas for their strategic requirements! Fourthly, in the time of Musharraf, he tried his best to corrupt army and it is very much possible that he did go out of the way in this process!
“They destroy civilian institutions, spend more money on cantonments forcing many to shift to those localities because of inadequate facilities in civilian areas.”
Again you lack the proofs although there might be some truth in that but it is talk in the air! By the way, it is not army who destroyed all civilian institutes, there are enough others to do that!
“If they cannot protect the borders and cannot resist power then they should resign and go home.”
Good suggestion though i disagree! They have been protecting the borders, if not then who has been doing that? If they go home then who will do that protection job? You are forgetting that it took so many efforts, sacrifices, resources and time to built Pak Army and now you are coming with golden ideas! Current elite of army did not go for the power grabbing although current government is one of the most pathetic, incapable and corrupt! As i said i am always opposed to army rule.
“We will be much better off without them.”
This is just an emotional and empty idea!
“It is their fault Pakistan is going through this unending terrorism in the first place.”
It is not their fault only, our politicians, bureaucracy, religious people, judiciary, intellectuals, landlords and others have been part of problems of Pakistan we are facing today. By the way, it is mainly task of police to stop unrest in the country but police so ineffective so army had to do the job.
“Not one officer of worthy designation resigned during Mush’s eight year rule,”
This is something which might have happened but it could have been a very dangerous move though as in army it is quite important to obey the orders otherwise people will keep on creating divisions! Here too, our nation too did not show courage against Musharraf.
“Indians built consulates and they kept mum,”
I think it was not our job to stop them in Afghanistan! It is not always possible to stop or counter all the things. Even today, our so called democratic government is silent or ineffective at this issue and at many other issues.
“Taliban turned against Pakistan, started killing thousands and they kept mum,”
It is not true that all Taliban turned against Pakistan! There were many forces who have been involved in this killings of Pakistanis. Taliban and their name was used as front otherwise behind them were others! But army did do operation against those elements, whosoever they were, and now that wave of bombings/killings has come to minimum as a result.
“they were too busy building DHAs all over the country,”
another exaggeration and effort to connect things in illogical way.
“getting contractual jobs in government institutions, occupying embassies and consulates. They are paid to protect us not the other way around.”
I have some reservations though for current rise in salaries of army officers by 15%, it seems to me a kind of bribe by the government and our poor nation can’t afford much right now. Well it is no crime to get jobs in government institutions if done on merit and fairly, and don’t forget that now most of army officers have been pulled back from the civilian posts! What do you mean from occupying embassies and consulates?
Firstly, they don’t fight for money as highest goal rather army does its job for the sake of Islam, country and its people! Secondly, they are not our employees rather are our sisters and brothers!
I don’t mean here that all what army has been doing is right, people in army are also human beings but it is not fair to put all blame on them or to try to malign them based on one sided picture or try to disgrace them or efforts to undermine their sacrifices! Pakistan army is the most disciplined, patriotic and dedicated institution of Pakistan.
I feel vindicated by Zaheer’s reply, apparently he does think I’m criticizing out of habit or emotions than on logic, anyway.
“They have ruled the country for past eight out of ten years.”
That is true but one can’t blame only army for that. Our politicians, religious people and also judiciary have been part of the problem! I am always opposed to army rule.
The question remains who is the biggest blood sucking leach? The rest of the three while abetting the army in various times do not even come close. Plus while the army had weapons the judges and politicians do not.
“During their tenures they make it a point to grab all the prime lands and declare them cantonments, examples include the parking area of National Stadium Karachi, hundreds of acres of land along Shahrah e Faisal and Super Highway in Karachi and land adjacent to Gwadar port.”
I think you have not visited Karachi, however, to ensure you that this is not an exaggeration I’ll ask you to look these issues up in archives of the daily Dawn. These are prime land, given to army at throw away prices or even in some cases like National stadiums parking lot ex army officer Tauqir Zia ‘gifted’ it to the army.
“They destroy civilian institutions, spend more money on cantonments forcing many to shift to those localities because of inadequate facilities in civilian areas.”
Again you lack the proofs although there might be some truth in that but it is talk in the air! By the way, it is not army who destroyed all civilian institutes, there are enough others to do that!
Make a comparison sir! Our hospitals, airlines, power systems, railways etc were in much better conditions when Nawaz Sharif was over thrown. With absolute power army should have done wonders but as far as Karachi’s major hospitals are concerned they plummeted to a new low under the army rule, as did PIA, railways etc despite the shady deals of purchasing locomotives from China and Boeing 777’s. When you rule you are responsible, especially when you have taken it illegitimately.
“If they cannot protect the borders and cannot resist power then they should resign and go home.”
Good suggestion though i disagree! They have been protecting the borders, if not then who has been doing that? If they go home then who will do that protection job? You are forgetting that it took so many efforts, sacrifices, resources and time to built Pak Army and now you are coming with golden ideas! Current elite of army did not go for the power grabbing although current government is one of the most pathetic, incapable and corrupt! As i said i am always opposed to army rule.“We will be much better off without them.”This is just an emotional and empty idea!
Now now Sir, who is being emotional here, we all know what happened in 65, 71, 85 and 99. The army’s mis-adventurism cost us dearly. When has army protected this country? Even today, Tali9ban can come and go as they please, with army coming up the excuse that borders extremely porus and other excuses. So if they can’t do their job why bother keeping them. Indeed we have sacrificed more than enough for them and its time to stop. Also the current elite has not gone for grabbing power because it is well aware of the entangled mess they have left. As soon as economy sets into equilibrium once more they will be unleashing their fangs, in facts they have already started to.
“It is their fault Pakistan is going through this unending terrorism in the first place.”
It is not their fault only, our politicians, bureaucracy, religious people, judiciary, intellectuals, landlords and others have been part of problems of Pakistan we are facing today. By the way, it is mainly task of police to stop unrest in the country but police so ineffective so army had to do the job.
Again, if that is the case, why does the same logic not apply when you are critcizing the current government? Plus once again we got one big blood suckiing leech the rest are mere mosquitoes in comparison.
“Not one officer of worthy designation resigned during Mush’s eight year rule,”
This is something which might have happened but it could have been a very dangerous move though as in army it is quite important to obey the orders otherwise people will keep on creating divisions! Here too, our nation too did not show courage against Musharraf.
There is a line and when the line is crossed your silence becomes criminal. Example, Sherry Rehman, Aitzaz Ahsan etc openly disagreed with Zardari on judiciary as it was not a trivial matter. With not a single officer resigning, it shows how corrupt they all are, they are supposed to stay united for protecting this country and its constitution not destroying it.
“Indians built consulates and they kept mum,”
I think it was not our job to stop them in Afghanistan! It is not always possible to stop or counter all the things. Even today, our so called democratic government is silent or ineffective at this issue and at many other issues.
Wow! There’s this thing called international diplomacy. Today’s government has so far not succeeded in resolving the matter but it has created hue and cry which has been much more effective than any thing past government did.
“Taliban turned against Pakistan, started killing thousands and they kept mum,”
It is not true that all Taliban turned against Pakistan! There were many forces who have been involved in this killings of Pakistanis. Taliban and their name was used as front otherwise behind them were others! But army did do operation against those elements, whosoever they were, and now that wave of bombings/killings has come to minimum as a result.
Firstly if Fazlullah is and Mehsud was Taliban then why would you say that the Taliban’s name was being misused? And kindly make a comparison once more, the two ineffective operations in Swat during army rule and one during this government, had army done the previous ones with the same effort we wouldn’t have needed the third one. Plus the way army handled the entire issue during their tenure was a fiasco, and hence the resulting violence.
“they were too busy building DHAs all over the country,”
another exaggeration and effort to connect things in illogical way.
Islamabad got a DHA, they stole thousands of acres on Super Highway Karachi to build Phase 9 and 10 and Lahore DHA got few phases added to it self.
“getting contractual jobs in government institutions, occupying embassies and consulates. They are paid to protect us not the other way around.”
I have some reservations though for current rise in salaries of army officers by 15%, it seems to me a kind of bribe by the government and our poor nation can’t afford much right now. Well it is no crime to get jobs in government institutions if done on merit and fairly, and don’t forget that now most of army officers have been pulled back from the civilian posts! What do you mean from occupying embassies and consulates?
Firstly, they don’t fight for money as highest goal rather army does its job for the sake of Islam, country and its people! Secondly, they are not our employees rather are our sisters and brothers!
I don’t mean here that all what army has been doing is right, people in army are also human beings but it is not fair to put all blame on them or to try to malign them based on one sided picture or try to disgrace them or efforts to undermine their sacrifices! Pakistan army is the most disciplined, patriotic and dedicated institution of Pakistan.
When you are ruling you are supposed to correct the mechanism but if every institution where by it is possible to make money has to be a retired officer its more then just merit. By occupying embassies I mean the fact that many serving and retired officers were appointed to hold diplomatic posts in Pakistan’s missions all over the world. Also I would like to correct that they fight for Islam and Pakistan. Sir they are paid to do that but they don’t fight at all, they surrender in front off Indians and crush Pakistanis be it Balochistan, Okara farms, lakes of Sindh or the infamous Lal Masjid and so on.
@ janniferkhan and Zaheer
Ithink Jennifer is right, our army had been the biggest political party in Pakistan with no vote bank and they have always been busy destablsing political government.
The have always started war with india and yes always lost. They had conscientiously made a decision to seperate east pakistan in order to hide their real role in east pakistan as they are doing now in Balochistan.
(Please google and read Hamood-u-rehman commission and you will have a gist of our Army;s role)
I believe that we have no threat or danger from india or anybody else if our army stops bothering them.
please think, we had been fooled by our Army since Ghulam Mohammad, regime. one last request that please study”EBDO” elective body disqualification order and you will know that the corruption which is associated with politians was never at all as much as it had been propgated.
@skunk
“I feel vindicated by Zaheer’s reply, apparently he does think I’m criticizing out of habit or emotions than on logic, anyway.”
It is still possible that you are criticizing out of habit, no one can see heart or intentions of a person.
“The question remains who is the biggest blood sucking leach? The rest of the three while abetting the army in various times do not even come close. Plus while the army had weapons the judges and politicians do not.”
Leach is the one who can’t deliver anything but Army did deliver most of the time for the country! Secondly, army does need resources but how much? one can’t say exactly! It is possible that they are taking more than they need or just appropriate. I think rest three are way too ahead in corruption especially politicians and they also don’t deliver except talks mostly, look at your Zardari sahib, everybody knows how he collected all that and became President by using “grave politics”! By the way, army must have weapons, should they instead carry spoons? If so then Zardari sahib should sell toffees in public buses
“I think you have not visited Karachi, however, to ensure you that this is not an exaggeration I’ll ask you to look these issues up in archives of the daily Dawn. These are prime land, given to army at throw away prices or even in some cases like National stadiums parking lot ex army officer Tauqir Zia ‘gifted’ it to the army.”
As i said army does need resources as an institution, should they live on mountains? and also said that there can be cases of corruption especially at the time of Musharraf! I don’t know how do you define prime land? By the way how many prime lands are in Karachi and Pakistan and who are their owners? What about landlords?
“Make a comparison sir! Our hospitals, airlines, power systems, railways etc were in much better conditions when Nawaz Sharif was over thrown. With absolute power army should have done wonders but as far as Karachi’s major hospitals are concerned they plummeted to a new low under the army rule, as did PIA, railways etc despite the shady deals of purchasing locomotives from China and Boeing 777’s. When you rule you are responsible, especially when you have taken it illegitimately.”
Firstly, it was Mr. Sharif who brought Musharraf from low to the top and then he showed him hand and threw him away! Secondly, Musharraf as i mentioned before proved a big blow to the country and army, we are paying for his wonderful time and policies till today and i think we have to pay a bit more. Thirdly, this was same MQM who was praising and working in Karachi under him! Fourthly, i again oppose army rule but our politicians also have some sicknesses!
“Now now Sir, who is being emotional here, we all know what happened in 65, 71, 85 and 99. The army’s mis-adventurism cost us dearly. When has army protected this country? Even today, Tali9ban can come and go as they please, with army coming up the excuse that borders extremely porus and other excuses. So if they can’t do their job why bother keeping them. Indeed we have sacrificed more than enough for them and its time to stop. Also the current elite has not gone for grabbing power because it is well aware of the entangled mess they have left. As soon as economy sets into equilibrium once more they will be unleashing their fangs, in facts they have already started to.”
I don’t know who is getting emotional. War of 65 was fought well by the army, and i think it was misadventure of many people if it was so, 71 was a tragedy again happened because of army head and politicians, 85 was so so and 99 was a stupidity of politicians and fake commando!
“Again, if that is the case, why does the same logic not apply when you are critcizing the current government? Plus once again we got one big blood suckiing leech the rest are mere mosquitoes in comparison.”
Of course current govt. is also doing strange things but army has hugely changed positively i suppose. Don’t underestimate those so called mosquitoes which can cause Dengue fever!
“There is a line and when the line is crossed your silence becomes criminal. Example, Sherry Rehman, Aitzaz Ahsan etc openly disagreed with Zardari on judiciary as it was not a trivial matter. With not a single officer resigning, it shows how corrupt they all are, they are supposed to stay united for protecting this country and its constitution not destroying it.”
Don’t mix army with political setup especially with Zardari group who are doing politics on graves to fill their pockets! Our army is a disciplined, sound, patriotic and energetic institution! As i said that they are not allowed to disobey except in extraordinary conditions and i feel there might have been some such occasions at the time of Musharraf where he must have been strongly stopped! Those two resignations were not because of judicial matter rather there were many other factors too i suppose! Secondly, Zardari sahib did not show any shame at those resignations, he is still doing all corruption. And it is very much possible that army officers did not resign and stayed united for the sake of country and constitution! I think, however, it was extremely shameful that Pakistanis were handed over to other countries in Musharaf time and they bowed to USA and Co.! It is big shame for our agencies and institutions!
“Wow! There’s this thing called international diplomacy. Today’s government has so far not succeeded in resolving the matter but it has created hue and cry which has been much more effective than any thing past government did.”
and that big thing is being done by the big international corrupt who is slave of international powers! Oh yah, send one video of their hue and cry, was it recorded privately! and also please send me report of its effectiveness!
“Firstly if Fazlullah is and Mehsud was Taliban then why would you say that the Taliban’s name was being misused? And kindly make a comparison once more, the two ineffective operations in Swat during army rule and one during this government, had army done the previous ones with the same effort we wouldn’t have needed the third one. Plus the way army handled the entire issue during their tenure was a fiasco, and hence the resulting violence.”
Of course, these two are not the only players there are many others and it is still possible that couple and others were playing in the hands of others! and it is quite possible that Taliban were being used as screen saver. Sawat has not been any easy matter, it is complex! Why first two operations were not that effective? May be they were not planned or done well due to whatever factors! and third one was effective, it could be also because of first two experiences or other factors! There is possibility of mistakes by army in case of Sawat operation but again it was not at all an easy case!
“Islamabad got a DHA, they stole thousands of acres on Super Highway Karachi to build Phase 9 and 10 and Lahore DHA got few phases added to it self.”
I don’t have any information about DHA thing! What is going on in it, who are the stakeholders, is it legal or legal, is it moral or immoral? i can’t say, better ask the concerned authorities.
“When you are ruling you are supposed to correct the mechanism but if every institution where by it is possible to make money has to be a retired officer its more then just merit. By occupying embassies I mean the fact that many serving and retired officers were appointed to hold diplomatic posts in Pakistan’s missions all over the world. Also I would like to correct that they fight for Islam and Pakistan. Sir they are paid to do that but they don’t fight at all, they surrender in front off Indians and crush Pakistanis be it Balochistan, Okara farms, lakes of Sindh or the infamous Lal Masjid and so on.”
There can be some posts where retired officers are more suitable than others so they should be posted there! Firstly it is not illegal to have ambassadors/diplomats from retired army officers if selected on merit! secondly, how many are there such diplomats? Statistics! I personally strongly believe that our army fights for Islam, Pakistan and Pakistanis and it is Pakistan Army and people of Pakistan who have given so many sacrifices for Islam and Pakistan! Army lost its top officers and many soldiers in current wave of violence!
Well, army does need to handle anti-Pakistan forces within Pakistan but i think at times they made grave blunders especially in some cases of Balochistan and above all in Lal Masjid. Lal Masjid incident was a pure successful conspiracy to bring army and nation in confrontation and to demoralize army!
all those advocating the “good” kyani and “good” army may first like to have a look at this article:
http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27076
facts speak for themselves. recently army apologists have been on their toes trying to potray the “savior of the nation” charade against “incompetent” civilians. A look at the wikipedia page on the army and its histry will bear tesament to the fact where army/ispr agents try to blackout the misdeeds of the army from the world, like bugti murder, Dr shazia rape case, it being the most corrupt institution in Pakistan etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pakistan_Army&action=history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_army
@i_shah
“all those advocating the “good” kyani and “good” army may first like to have a look at this article:
http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27076”
Don’t try to make false/illogical connections! Army is not responsible for everything and especially for its retired officers! After a person gets retired then he/she is different than one on job!
“facts speak for themselves. recently army apologists have been on their toes trying to potray the “savior of the nation” charade against “incompetent” civilians.”
You are actually Mr. Facts and only aware person on this planet! Army has been big power in protecting Pakistan along with people of Pakistan! We are all Pakistanis!
“A look at the wikipedia page on the army and its histry will bear tesament to the fact where army/ispr agents try to blackout the misdeeds of the army from the world,”
There is always possibility of mistakes by anyone as natural and Pak army is not an angel, they are also human beings! But in general Pak Army has been quite good and dedicated! Who knows who did what? It is very much possible that that history was corrected from propaganda against Pak Army of some people!
“like bugti murder, Dr shazia rape case, it being the most corrupt institution in Pakistan etc:”
A couple of bad acts because of some bad leaders/people of Army can’t be used to justify whole institution as bad or corrupt!
@zaheer
“Army is not responsible for everything and especially for its retired officers! After a person gets retired then he/she is different than one on job!”
-dont try to be over clever mr colonel or major or what ever you are. and mind you army as an instituition has this problem. no matter where they take up a job after retirement, their loyalties are to the army-afterall they get plots worth millions at dirt cheap prices from “army land”, what ever that means… as if army is the land revenue dept.
“There is always possibility of mistakes by anyone as natural and Pak army is not an angel, they are also human beings! But in general Pak Army has been quite good and dedicated! Who knows who did what? It is very much possible that that history was corrected from propaganda against Pak Army of some people!”
-if they are so prone to mistakes-more so than civilians they so conveniently hate as bloody civilians why do they have this habbit of taking over the country and any institution they take over. every time they took over the country they ruined it- remember the shameful surrender in 1971- a world record indeed for cowardice- and the misadventure they lied about as a victory in 1965- like as if they had conquered kashmir- and what about the drugs and weapons culture for zia days.
“A couple of bad acts because of some bad leaders/people of Army can’t be used to justify whole institution as bad or corrupt!”
-why is it that the frequecy of bad acts is more rampant in the case of army/ex-army personell? and what about “legalized corruption in the form of agriculture lands, half rates on PIA/Pakistan railways/joyrides at parks/cinemas and orcourse plots in DHA’s, askari schemes, awt schemes etc. the army is the biggest land mafia in pakistan and thats a FACT-and you do seem to have a problem with facts and tend to resort to fabrications and concoctions. Why did the aramy keep coming to power? The lust for more plots and agrarian lands- the desire for loot and plunder-afterall what else do you expect from those who are not ready to even pay a meagre Rs 5 toll tax/parking fee.
and mind you those nations which dishonor their teachers never prosper-and we, our army in particular is in a habbit of doing exactly this. not just brigs but the so called “honest and sincere and down to earth” jawans. recall the humiliation of a teacher by shameless FC sepahis in NWFP. those are facts – that if you have any problems with them…
@i_shah
“dont try to be over clever mr colonel or major or what ever you are.”
I don’t have any post or formal connection in Pak Army nor any of my nearby relative is there
“and mind you army as an instituition has this problem. no matter where they take up a job after retirement, their loyalties are to the army-afterall they get plots worth millions at dirt cheap prices from “army land”, what ever that means… as if army is the land revenue dept.”
Having loyalties is another thing but after retirement person’s actions are not responsibility of army! I don’t know what is the policy in context of lands, don’t have facts.
“if they are so prone to mistakes-more so than civilians they so conveniently hate as bloody civilians why do they have this habbit of taking over the country and any institution they take over. every time they took over the country they ruined it- remember the shameful surrender in 1971- a world record indeed for cowardice- and the misadventure they lied about as a victory in 1965- like as if they had conquered kashmir- and what about the drugs and weapons culture for zia days.”
Mistakes could be made by every human being be it in army or not! There can be some cases of hate but i think it is just stretched too far. taking over is not that appreciating, it does not help i think. I have wrote about 65 and 71 already. I can’t really judge the acts of Zia or others as neither i have enough facts nor aware of reasons for his actions.
“why is it that the frequecy of bad acts is more rampant in the case of army/ex-army personell? and what about “legalized corruption in the form of agriculture lands, half rates on PIA/Pakistan railways/joyrides at parks/cinemas and orcourse plots in DHA’s, askari schemes, awt schemes etc. the army is the biggest land mafia in pakistan and thats a FACT-and you do seem to have a problem with facts and tend to resort to fabrications and concoctions. Why did the aramy keep coming to power? The lust for more plots and agrarian lands- the desire for loot and plunder-afterall what else do you expect from those who are not ready to even pay a meagre Rs 5 toll tax/parking fee.”
I don’t think bad acts by army people are more frequent than others, it seems you want to pain it like that. I don’t have facts about lands etc if you have please do share. I think landlords are the biggest land mafia and army uses land as an institution not as individuals.! You blame me of fabrications but you might yourself be fabricating
i really can’t say about plots etc, as i said if you have solid proofs then share it and also tell who those people really are. Corruption is corruption no matter who commits it.
“and mind you those nations which dishonor their teachers never prosper-and we, our army in particular is in a habbit of doing exactly this. not just brigs but the so called “honest and sincere and down to earth” jawans. recall the humiliation of a teacher by shameless FC sepahis in NWFP. those are facts – that if you have any problems with them…”
True, teachers must be honored but a couple of bad acts can’t be used to label all as bad!
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