Following the assassination of Tehreek-e-Tahfuzz-e-Khatm-e-Nabuwat clerics on late Thursday night, the Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI) has given a strike call for Saturday.
The strike call is being backed by other political and religious parties with Jamaat-e-Islami, JUP Sahibzada Karim, PML, NDP and other political groups extended their support.
Addressing the press conference, Qari said, “Zaid Zaman, commonly known as Zaid Hamid Khalifa of Yousuf Kazab, is the main person who brutally murdered our leaders. After hectic consultations, we have decided to nominate him in the FIR.”
Read complete at The News
Meanwhile, the Press Secretary of Brass Tacks, owned by Zaid Zaman Hamid, has denied any involvement in this murder.
click to enlarge
Wallaho Aalamo bis-sawab
To be honest, I never liked Zaid Hamid……certainly his ideas I think are way too rightist, unrealistic and over-ambitious but anyway the above allegations are very serious and should really be investigated and if proven right this guy should be banned from at least coming to media…
the journalists at the end rightly pulled the beards of our maulaanaa hazraat and same old response from our maulaanaa hazraat….ham hakoomat ke har ghalt iqdaaam ki muzammat kartay hain……(par hakoomat se ilehdaa bhi nahin hona chahtay……kioon ke yeh islam ke khilaaf hay)
these bufoons, they should have left the ministries under protest and return the pay they are taking from government under protest , they could have said ,;they would not return to offices untill murderers are caught.
but how could they leave their own HALWA but asking poor people to keep their shops close so that all those who are daily wagers they and their children go hungry but these so called maulveee type can shine their politics.
Idiots.
I think this Zahid Hamid Categorically denied his relationship or that he ever follow this Yusuf Kazab. I agree with @socratese that first these JUI and other parties leave the office quit the coalition government if not indefinite then till the time the killer is caught
http://pakeezahs.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/yousaf-alis-relationship-with-zaid-hamid/
This site is so biased. suporting criminals politicians.
These mullahs are all biako log. corrupt chor.
this site is ‘bakwaas’
I don’t think Zahid Hamid has anything to do with this muder, if they really have to find somebody to hold responsible then look into MQM, it is their expertise to bully, terrorize. No others, not even ANP in Karachi wants killing, if they go for guns then it is only for their survival in response to MQM, which is mafia and an international “bad actor” in Pakistani politics. they even don’t know what politics is about because they have no regard whatsoever for political patience and letting others say something, no room for other parties to do politics.
As to the Zaid Hamid, I never heard him say anything that is even remotely true about prophethood of any new messenger. He is lover of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and fighter of Allah.
Yousuf Kazzab calls Zaid Zaman as Sahabi and Zaid Zaman thanks Yousuf Kazzab:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyshh4G-QU
All proofs are available here:
http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com
My suggestion to Zaid Hamid is to disappear again for 10 years
Also suggest Zaid Zaman Hamid to come back this time with a newer name … like Zamanat Zabt Hamid
what a loser grp of maulvis n what a loser site this is
i’m not a fan of Zaid Hamid at all … but i don’t think he’s behind all this …
in fact i have a suspicion this Tahaffuz-Nabuwat people are diverting the real cause of the assassination by blaming their academic archrival … which is extremely unprofessional
secondly @uth oyay … dude the voice of zaid zaman in that audio is wayyyyyy different from Zaid Hamid’s voice … there is a serious amount of doubt
also … even though they’ve accused him … he’s innocent until proven guilty … but proven/unproven should be done in an unbiased court, not the corrupt 90% jugdes of the country
if Zaid is tried in a court of CJ Iftikhar Chaudry or someone honest like him … i’m fine with that … i’m sure he’ll come out clean
ANY ONE NOT BELEIVED ON QUR’AN -O- SUNNAH CAN NOT STAND ON ISLAM. WHAT A CONCOOKED IDEAS GO TO ATHIESTISM MEAN KUFR. THIS SO CALLED ZAID HAMID IS MAN OF CHEAPISM. MAY ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY GUIDE SUCH KIND OF HUMANITY.
If this is a loooser site then what a looser you guys are to keep coming back.
Dear Friends,
Nobody in this world except prophets is free from sins. We should not condemn Ulema because of their weaknesses. Everybody has his own weaknesses. As far as Zaid Zaman Hamid is concerned, he is suspicious because of several reasons. Our young generation likes such people as ZH or IK, they get emotional to see their rhetoric. May Allah help us in differentiating in right and wrong.
According to :http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com/
The association of Zaid Zaman Hamid with the Yusuf Kazzab is undeniable, as Zaid Zaman Hamid himself has admitted to it (after skipping the question regarding his connections or rejecting the association for many years in public!). In the video he told the students not to upload this video online and keep it for later when he tells them (students) to do so since he didn’t want any conflict with the “fasadi mullahs.” Since his connections with Yusuf Kazzab was evident, AMTKN’s Late head Mawlana Jalalpuri asked Zaid Hamid 3 things. [1] Condemn Yusuf Ali publicly. Call him a Kazzab (liar) and curse him to hell. [2] Publicy bear witness that Muhammad is the Last Prophet and there will be no on after him. [3] Ask forgiveness from God if he had connections with Yusuf Ali Kazzab knowingly or unknowingly.
When Zaid Hamid refused to condemn Yusuf Ali Kazzab and infact went on defending him in public (as evident in the videos) Mawlana Jalalpuri wrote further articles regarding this issue with an open challenge to debate in public. His one of the last ones was: “Poori Pakistani Baradari Jhooti Ya Akela Zaid Zaman Hamid?” [Entire Pakistani brotherhood liar or alone Zaid Zaman Hamid?]By Moulana Saeed Ahmed Jalalpuri.
It is sad that these ulema are laying allegations of heresy on a person who has repeatedly on more than one occasions refuted the allegations on him. I have nothing in support of Zaid but Mr. Ulema sahab is making allegations on him of Kufr which are extremely serious and Zaid has multiple times denied them. Allegations of heresy should not be jokingly applied to anyone.
Additionally, it is sad that instead of promoting healthy political debate this site is involved in propagating unfounded allegations and petty quarrels by fanatic illiterate mullahs.
الحمدﷲ ، میرا دیوبندی مسلک سے کوئی تعلق نہیں ہے مگر اس بات کو کہتا چلوں کہ جس کسی نے یہ کیا ہے اس نے بڑا ظلم ڈھایا ہے -ایک ہی منٹ میں پورا گھر اجاڑ دیا ہے-باپ -،بیٹا -داماد سب قتل کر دیے ہیں—
@freemason,
Are you saying that Zaid Hamid has nothing to do with Yousuf Kazzab or are you saying that Yousuf Kazzab was innocent?
ZH is a war monger. He should be hanged. We can’t afford any more so-called jihadis.
Afghan Taliban=Pakistan Taliban=Terrorists
@uth oyay
Yousuf Kazzab was proven guilty in a court of law and therefore there is no doubt that he was guilty of heresy and was subsequently handed over punishment by the court. So, Yousuf Kazzab was not innocent.
As regards Zaid Hamid we should go by what he himself says about his ideas and ideology and not on hearsay. Multiple statements by Zaid Hamid himself clearly say that he believes in finality of prophethood and he has multiple times condemned heretics. We cannot look into the hearts of anyone to know anyone’s real intentions and we should judge by what a person himself says and does rather than what others say about the person. In simple terms we should use “husn-e-zan” in such cases. The real intentions of a person are only known to the Almightly.
Here is a statement by Tanzeem-e-Islami about him:
http://i43.tinypic.com/s62lpg.jpg
Additionally refer to Zaid’s website for what he himself says.
I disagree with Zaid on a number of things but that does not mean that I should paint him as a heretic or Kafir and start putting serious allegations, e.g. murder, on him without good reason or proof. It is said that this website also entered into this propagandist attitude just because it disagrees with the rightist philosophy of this person.
who was Yousuf Kazab? can anyone tell more about their association?
Aslam Aikum
Brother, Allah save everymuslim from this person, he is the real enemy of islam, just be simple what islam says he is sitting in front of girls and talking about islam,i request all muslim brother to be aware of this person, he is double standerd . our muslim brother first look at the history of this person,
from where he come why he so spread all over pakistan is he is big Alam , why too famous in universities ,
Allah make save all muslim from this hypocirate person
Theres a big mistake in this video…its JUI PC not the JUP.
Charges are flimsy and on heresy as rightly pointed out by freemason.
Personal grudge is established but not good enough as a motive to kill.
If Khatm-e-Nabuwat giving him hard time in colleges and universities…killing of an individual will not help.
Major beneficiaries in every key religious killing is Black Water and arch enemy India…Theres always a potential of sectarian violence as a consequence.
@haroonabadi
I’ll tell you who Yusuf Kazzab is? his real name was Yusuf Ali and he did not lie about anything i guess … he claimed to be a Caliph of Allah … he never said, “i am the Prophet of Allah” or “I am Muhammed” (based on the audio that I’ve heard) …
but he’s calling his followers as sahaba’s which is crazy crazy … i denounce and reject that (i would like to know an answer from Zaid Hamid if he was called a sahabi by Yusuf Ali and if yes, does Zaid Hamid denounce that label?)
http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/yusuf-kazab-i-am-muhammad-53-mins-audio/
but (also based on the audio) he is like ’1 in every 5′ barelwi maulvi’s who go above board in the love of Muhammad and start making comparisons/similarities b/w Muhammad and Allah … deobandi’s like to label them mushrik but barelwi’s deny the claim and say they believe in Allah as one and Muhammad his prophet …
now the problem is why these ATMKN people picked on Yusuf Ali and not other barelwi mullahs … why is it a campaign against one man instead of a general ‘barelwi-deobandi debate’ … i don’t understand
i personally sat in the gathering of a barelwi mullah who said this:
Allah has disallowed Sajda towards anyone but Allah himself
But who can stop if we do Sajda towards Muhammed in our hearts and minds
i know this is crazy but is it outright shirk or is it just borderline? … these people need to correct their views but should they be killed? … i think not
@thedude
“But who can stop if we do Sajda towards Muhammed in our hearts and minds”
A personal statement by a personal poster could be heresy but on face value we should agree whatever is said is true.
That Brelvi who was quoted to say above statement must be very intellectual or outright ignorant…if he said in ignorance then its shirk as pointed out by thedude.
If he knew what he was saying then he was at the realm of Kashaf and beyond comprehension of thedude and myself because high place of Mohammad(SAW) in Quran is not easy to understand.
Sajda when done ritually is an act of worship…when talk about sajda of heart and mind its not worship but deep love.
Allah Has Property rights on His creations and this right is given to Mohammad(SAW) by virtue of “Prophet has more rights on believers Nafs than they themselves”
This is hard to understand statement at the same time impossible to ignore.
Good chance to hang the red capped moron
@skunk: why hang him man , give him to Punjab Police for chihtrol practice.
I find it very difficult to believe Zahid did this but they should be an independent inquiry to determine the facts.
I am not going to coment on the case itself here or on Zaid vs. Clerics but just want to point out something.
Certainly I am no fan of ‘mad-hatter’ Zaid (see e.g. the comment section starting here) but I do find it VERY CURIOUS that the site http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com came into being just this month (first post March 01) and has managed to put up 90 detailed posts so far with so much material — material I had tried to find before and was no where to be seen. Now that is a serious accomplishment!!!
My point is this slick site is a professional job. Just wondering :
1. who the paymaster is of these “We the bloggers of ’Zaid Hamid Exposition’”.
2. Being a CTer, the “coincidence” of the “timely” birth date of this site with the events that have unfolded is just too hard to believe. I mean, Zaid and Kazab are not new (e.g. I was trying to expose him two years back). Where were these “bloggers of ’Zaid Hamid Exposition’” then? Sitting on this mountain of ‘evidence’??
3. Why no stand by bloggers of ’Zaid Hamid Exposition’ against TV ONE that has been promoting him for years? What about Wake Up Pakistan? ARY who too seem to have picked him up?
4. What are the views of “bloggers of ’Zaid Hamid Exposition’” about Aalim Online and that babar Awan show? Do they consider them less of a ‘fitna’??
@thedude
“now the problem is why these ATMKN people picked on Yusuf Ali and not other barelwi mullahs … why is it a campaign against one man instead of a general ‘barelwi-deobandi debate’ … i don’t understand”
Agree. Though the ‘bloggers of ’Zaid Hamid Exposition’ say “The readers of this blog should understand that we don’t hold any personal grudge to ‘Zaid Zaman Hamid’ aka Zaid Hamid, Syed Zaid Zaman Hamid”, they are not being truthful.
“i personally sat in the gathering of a barelwi mullah who said this:
Allah has disallowed Sajda towards anyone but Allah himself
But who can stop if we do Sajda towards Muhammed in our hearts and minds”
Really? Wow!
Shias don’t have any issue with finality of Prophet Muhammed. So this can’t be the result of shia sunni issue. Qadyanis(Ahmedis) on the other hand do have serious issues with finality of Prophet Muhammed.
Besides Zaid Hamid, absconding MQMized grand terrorist Altaf Hussain is acting as spokesman and staunch supporter of Qadaynis these days. I am sure Mufti sb must have talked about that coward British terrorist as well which it seems eventually lead to all this, maybe those who attend his majlis could shed some light on who might be annoyed with him.
آسلام علیکُم
ایک سوال ہے میرے ذھن میں موجودہ حالات میں اگر کوئی مولوی جہاد کی بات کرتا ہے تو اس کو میڈیا سمیت سب لوگ بہوت برا بھلا کہتے ہیں
دوسری طرف جب زائد حامد پاکستان کی مختلف یونیورسٹیوں کے اندر جا کر جہاد کی تربیت دے رہا نوجوانوں کو اپنی شعلہ بیانی سے ان کے خون کو گرما رہا ہے تو اس کو پوچھنے والا کوئی بھی نہیں
پاکستان میں کوئی طالبان اور امریکا کی لڑائی نہیں اگر سچی بات کہوں تو اس وقت آئی ایس آئی اور فوج آپس لڑ رہے ہیں
اور میں اپنے یقین سے کہ سکتا ہوں کہ زائد حامد آئی ایس آئی کا بندہ ہے اور کسی میں جرات نہیں کہ اس کو لگام ڈال سکے
@ nota: I assure you there are no paymasters of anti zaid site, I joined a facebook forum against him, pro-zaid hamid people were able to get it banned by constantly reporting it, their numbers are greater than ours so they were successful. Blogs cannot be reported, the stuff was already present at a number of forums. As to why you were not able to find it before, I got no idea but the page on facebook was deleted in last week of February for the third time.
Yeh Deobandi, Brelvi sab nain Islam ko nuqsan puhnchia hey. Sab mullah hain. Apni apni roti key larai lertey hain. Islam ko jitna nuqsan in loogoon say puhncha hey kisi aur say nahin. They added two more complexities to Islam.
(I am not a fan of Zaid, Deobandis , Brailvis, Shia or sunnis).
@ uth oyay
I have listened Zaid Hamid, and I am sure it is all propaganda against him. Pl open under mentioned address and listen what he says about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlTCt6Kxzo&feature=related
ZAID HAMID YOU ARE GREAT, these molvies are rubbish, brainless, jahils, dont have any knowledge, only want diesel, diesel, diesel.
CARRY ON ZAID HAMID THESE VALTURES WILL FINSHED SOON INSHALLAH.
یا اللہ ہمیں جاہل علما سے محفوظ رکھ
@Freemason – Thanks for clarifying that you believe Yousuf Kazzab was rightly convicted by High Court in Pakistan and he was not innocent.
@SAZA – I believe you also agree with the same?
Now, do you guys believe that close association of Zaid Hamid with Yousuf Kazzab is a propaganda?
why can’t I post my comment. I posted it a number of times but it never appeared on these pages.
Even though Zaid Hamid appears a true patriot on tv screens, I always had a feeling that there was something negative about him (and that was before I found out about the Kazzab thing).
When I look at the above statement from Zaid Hamid, which was released after his name was presented in the FIR, I can only see him guilty.
Have you guy’s noticed what he actually says in his letter? He is admitting his connection with the Kazzab.
He says, and I quote
“For us, it has always been a decent Illmi debate with Aalmi Majlas Tahafuz e Khatm e Nubuwat”.
The whole purpose, as the name suggests, of Aalmi Majlas Tahafuz e Khatm e Nubuwat is that Muhammad PBUH is the last messenger of Allah.
I agree with that, any Muslim would agree with that. So what was the “decent Illmi debate” about then? Were they discussing politics, science or perhaps agriculture?
A debate can only happen/take place if there are those who believe in opposite views – We clearly know the position of Aalmi Majlas Tahafuz e Khatm e Nubuwat and thus this means that Mr Zaid Hamid was giving reason for the other side!!!
Just because someone says something (patriotic stuff) to make a place in your heart, doesn’t mean that he is sincere. Have you even read about the fitna of Dajjal?? If someone says something which you don’t like, than how will he be able to lead you astray???
I dislike JUI-F as much as I did Musharraf, do PPP – as they are all corrupt. But please make a distinction between politics and Emaan.
Lastly, this is about our Emaan. This ain’t about politics, this ain’t about diesel !!! Ulema are sacrificing their lives -( for god sake, he lost his 15-year-old hafiz son) to keep people on the right path and we don’t even appreciate it???
@uth oyay
As I mentioned in my last comment we should judge someone by observing what he does and what he says himself rather than based on what others say. I have clarified that I am not a fan of Zaid Hamid but that does not mean that I should jump the bandwagon and start brandishing him a heretic or a kafir without directly listening to what he himself says on this issue. After these issues were raised against him I watched his addresses/speeches and in none of his speeches has he ever said that he does not believe in the finality of prophethood. On the other hand in a number of clarifications, both video and written, he has said that he is a firm believer in the finality of prophethood and sends “lanat” on anyone who does not believe in it. Here is one such link:
http://www.brasstacks.pk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=197:syed-zaid-zaman-hamid-responds-to-the-allegations&catid=42:ya-rub-dil-e-muslim-ko&lang=en
Additionally, a link to a post by Tanzeem-e-Islami has been posted above.
Now I fail to understand why are we running after flimsy suspicious websites when a person himself is saying loud and clear that he has no such beliefs!! Why are we all acting as blind ignorants when everyone can directly clarify such issues!! It is not necessary that you agree with political views of a person but brandishing him as a kafir in spite of his explanations is serious illiteracy and non-sense. Stop this propaganda campaign against one another just because of your disagreement on political issues.
These were the same maulvis which brandished Quaid-e-Azam as Kafir-e-Azam and brandished Allama Iqbal as Qadiyani and Kafir. Brandishing some other muslim as kafir is “Bohtan” and a serious crime.
Isn’t it strange how quickly Pakistanis just ignore the fact that Yusuf Ali Kazaab was murdered in prison in open daylight by a member of Sipha-e-Sahaba while police looked on (and possibly even helped) who was never charged with his crime as far as I know.
No matter if this Yusuf Kazaab was a nutcase or not, the Pakistani state and people tolerated his extra-judicial murder. And this is the basis of injustice.
what has these mulaas done for this country nothing just statements what have they done for lal masjid when this lal masjid incident happen all off them mullah leders ran away to london and dint gave a single statment againts musharaff they call them religious what are these name mullah disel , mullah landcruser and etc i think its mqm who did it zaid hamid have nothing to do with it zaid hamid never targeted these mulanaas he just talk about whats wrong if these mulanaas are so inocent and religious why r they part of this kafir government why dint they give resegnations i bet if these guys gets to the top seat they will be more courupt then zardari i dont think its zaid hamid behind all this …
hopefully this time @adm1n will allow this comment to appear. As I tried to say this 3 times before that although I don’t like ZH’s rhetoric and utopian fantasies about khalifa, I will never dare to call or consider someone kafir or in denial of finality of Prophethood of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) on the basis of some newspaper clippings of third-rated and blackmailer newspaper like khabrain. I have watched ZH’s more than an hour long explanation to his young followers and I don’t remember any time he quoted some thing which was against khatam-e-nabooat (naudhubillah). I am really disappointed with aalimi khatam-e-nabooat people whose all arguments are based on hearsay and khabrain clippings. I used to like these guys since my ishtiaq ahmed’s novel days but now their credibility at least in my eyes is doubtful. If they have accused yousaf ali of rape without fulfilling shariah’s conditions as it has been provided in court documents and shown by ZH then they are not trust worthy enough anymore. Even now the dead moulana of karachi has written his book with all arguments based on khabrain clippings. Guys, we need to be really careful in declaring someone kafir etc because if it turned out that it was based on flimsy proofs, then it will be us who will be in trouble and liable to punishment for not performing our duty of reality checks.
@freemason,
Not a single time I labeled ZZH as kaafir nor I have authority to say so.
May be I am kaafir and ZZH is the following the true religion and only God can confirm this as he knows what is in our hearts and mind. There are so many different versions of Islam and my belief is that all cannot be correct at same time.
I even never labeled Yousuf Kazzab as kaafir. As per wikipedia, his trial was conducted in dubious manner and he was convicted of commiting blasphemy indirectly. I am looking for more evidence.
Having said that, I still want to hear one of the following things from ZZH in simple words instead of twisted words that he is master of. His twisted and complicated answers are generating more and more doubts.
It would make things clear if ZZH can say one of the following:
1- NO – I have nothing to do with Yousuf Kazzab and I don’t know him.
2- YES – I have been associated with him, but Yousuf Kazzab was wrongfully sentenced for blasphemy.
3- YES – I have been associated with Yousuf Kazzab and I accept I was wrong and I apologize for my past.
End of story
Btw, what one of the above 3 options do you believe is true?
If you want to read the complete court proceedings of Yousuf Kazzab case please go to http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com/. Here you can find all the evidence against yousuf kazzab and his linkage with zaid hamid.
I personally don’t think that ZH is a kafir but he is a suspicious person due to his association with yousuf kazzab. Please also find the article he wrote in defense of yousuf kazzab after the guilty verdict. http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/fatwa-fobia-zaid-hamids-article-historic-article-in-defense-of-his-false-prophet/ This article was published in dawn.
Zaid Hamid could have very easily cleared the controversy by publicly admitting his past mistake of associating with yousuf kazzab but when ever asked the question he said he did not know any yousuf kazzab and made statements of denials. He used his over the top rhetoric to reinforce his patriotism and iman while slandering anyone asking the question as fasadi and yahudi/RAW/American/ Mossad/ Taliban/Maulvi agents. As they say patriotism is the last bastion of the scoundrel.
Recently some students went and had a private talk with him. The video of the talk was uploaded to youtube without ZH permission . In this talk ZH made an about turn on his stance of yousuf kazzab. He alleges that Yousuf ali / Kazzab was innocent and not a kazzab. he also admits knowing him. He refers to his association with scholars like Dr. Israr as proof of his innocence (Dr. Israr doesnt know about his past and later investigates and gives his own statement regarding it) and spins arguments in favour of Yousuf and against khabrain. But according to the court verdict Yousuf Kazzab was found guilty and sentenced to death. The court proceeding is also based on witness testimonials and not the khabrain newspaper. Later ZH realizing that the video had been leaked , released it himself after some delay.
Now, the way ZH has avoided confronting his past associations is very fishy and he cannot claim that Yousuf Kazzab is innocent. If he thinks so he should go to the court and get yousuf kazzab’s name cleared. Recently he has also resorted to violence against a student who tried to ask a question about his association with yousuf kazzab http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/paradise-made-hell-for-zaid-hamid-another-takmeel-function-goes-down-the-drain .
How can such a controversial person be allowed to speak to gullible (easily mislead) youth ? He only uses emotional blackmailing and over the top rhetoric. Youth is an age of emotions and youth can easily follow him. (Same technique used by Imran Khan)
Lagta hai lal topi ka topi drama khatam ho gaya
Ps. I forgot a few more degrading associations used by ZH for people asking him questions about his past association. Here is the complete list
He used his over the top rhetoric to reinforce his patriotism and iman while slandering anyone asking the question as
fasadi and yahudi/Taliban/Maulvi/Hindu/CIA/RAW/Mossad/American/Israeli/Indian/ Zionist/Neocon agents.
@uth oye
Most of my second post was generic and not directed towards you. I am in 100% agreement with your last point that he should say it explicitly. I think (and thats just a guess so don’t ascribe too much value to it) Zaid will say number 2 is true. Since I don’t have more knowledge on this so i can’t really say myself which one of the above is true.
Salam, Guyzz
Kindly let it be court ot decide who was behind the murder and stop blamming Zaid Hamid, he is the guy who really woken the new generation up for the true cause of Pakistan.. and Islam… Which of these Mullahs ever tried to tell or teach us the meaning of Pakistan, and sacrifices behind its creation.. Historically these type of people have once given FATWA against Alama Iqbal.
I strongly condemed these allegations.
Whether ZH is suspicious or not time will tell but atleast he is better than these politician crooks,, sitting in their lush corners and blaming others for their ignorance.
And some of my brothers dont like Patriotism, this wor really bit those people who live happily and does not care if Pakistan as a Leader of Mulim Ummah prgoress or Not…
Well in my view since our nation or Ummah has given up our PATRIOTISM, our downfall was began, since than we all have been treated as sheeps……
May Allah guide us all to the right path..
@uth oye
i can tell you what he would answer … that would be no. 1 … he has nothing to do with Yusuf Kazzab …
BECAUSE
he does not think the guy named Yusuf Ali is a Kazzab
if you ask him “do you have anything to do with Yusuf Ali”? then he would say yes he was a guy who claimed to be Caliph of Allah but was wrongfully accused of claiming to be Nabi of Allah
the problem is the people who call Yusuf “KAZZAB” they owe an explanation … there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever where:
1 – Yusuf said one thing and then flipped and lied that he never said that
2 – Yusuf said “I am prophet” or “I am Muhammad”
just b/c court convicted him doesn’t make him a Kazzaab … as i said earlier even today in the presence of CJ Iftikhaar Chaudry … more than 90% of the justice system is corrupt … judges make decisions based on either bribe or threat … end of story
CALLING YUSUF ALI A KAZZAAB AND NOT BRINGING EVIDENCE IS A BIG BIG BUHTAAN AND YOU GUYS OWE AN EXPLANATION
the audio doesn’t prove at all that he’s a kazzaab … that said if anything i said is not true i would like to hear a rebuttal
A very interesting and serious matter….
- I think that he had connection with Yusuf!
- The matter of faith is very sensitive and delicate one. A person can deviate from the right faith very quickly and he/she may not even realize that. Mr. Zaid can use the famous way of Taqiyyah of Shias or something similar. It is very much possible that he intends Yusuf while mentioning the Last Prophet but we can’t see into his heart!
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/taqiyyah/taqiyyah
- His talking style and his body language seems quite suspicious! A person who talks a lot and does not give much chance to others to interrupt; it is very much possible that he has some fears inside him/her i.e. he tries to hide somethings or fears he/she might get exposed.
- History has many such examples that individuals tried to misguide people by using their emotions, sympathies and lack of knowledge! We are an emotional nation in general, and a person can use our emotions for his interests! The possibility of a person being a man of externals is not out of question. As long as we don’t strengthen our faith and don’t educate ourselves with Islam the possibility of being misguided by others is always there. In any case, one should pray from Allah(SWT) for the right faith and guidance because only He can guide.
- The Ullema are not angels, they are also human beings and one can disagree to them but it also does not mean that we start hating them blindly or disrespecting them without specific reasons or ignoring what they teach! There are good Ullema and not good ones and we should not paint all with same color. Scholars of Islam are very important for us.
- This is a matter of extreme importance and i think we need to investigate it properly and sincerely without being unnecessarily emotional. The murderers need to be found and they can be from any mischief group!
My opinion.
Tehreek-e-Tahfuzz-e-Khatm-e-Nabuwat clerics are a bunch of jokers. Its still lucky they didn’t blame 9/11 on Zaid hamid.
Din e mula fe sabil ilah Fasad
They are just afraid of Zaid Zaman’s gaining popularity who always speaks truth and with conviction, not something that these clerics can ever do.
@shoaib aslam,
Zaid Zaman Hamid has himself given fatwa against everyone of being agent of CIA & Jews, including politicians, ulema, judges and specially journalists.
Did he ever present any single proof ever before accusing others? Why is he shouting now when it is his turn despite others are even giving proofs?
ZZH even claimed that the Judicial Movement was funded by CIA since it was against the holy Army Chief. He can label every one to be funded by CIA but this begairat and munafiq insaan does not have guts to say that Pakistan Army has been getting funds directly from CIA/Pentagon/USA since 2002 of around $1B yearly on account of war of terror.
Not only that, he has been continuously brainwashing mummy daddy kids of Pakistan with theories and solutions that are unconstitutional, illegal, against basic human rights and against all international laws that this world follows.
His trick is to tell 95% good things and intentionally feed things to brainwash his blind followers towards illegal things based on lies.
Just check one recent private video where he is openly talking to his associates in his office:
- Zaid is saying that he will challenge the ulema who are accusing him and he will keep his 9mm pistol with him. If they are proven wrong, I will put a hole in their head.
- I am waiting for the Islamic Court and we will confront them in court at time of our choice.
If first statement of shooting opponent with 9mm pistol was done by any molvi or politician against Zaid, all of you blind followers would have been jumping with anger and demanding FIR against him and filling all blogs against them.
Secondly, based on his second statement, it is clear that he does not believe in current justice system of Pakistan, which means he does not believe in constitution of Pakistan which is duty of every Pakistani citizen.
He also said that he will have open debate with them only when Islamic Courts are established, which means he will never ever have debate with anyone in public.
Remember, “Every Shining thing is not Gold”
Let me elaborate that:
We are currently going through the lot of stuff, like CONFLICT with INDIA on WATER ISSUE, Anti American Sphere, War on Terror, Problem of Common Man…
How would Zaid Hamid gain the lure of public … By talking the aforementioned topics or the one opposite to it … Certainly the one mentioned earlier to gain more and more attraction and that’s what his strategy is once gain the number of fans and than present his evil motives …
Thing to notice is that forever we are following the Imams, Moulivs, Aalims and Muftis and now he (Zaid Hamid) who just appeared 17 months ago has turned number of people against the prominent Islamic Leaders and Clerics and even people are barking against them despite they hold the learned Qura’an in them …
Come on guyz take the nails of senses ….
Realize and distinguish between Right and Wrong …
One can easily pull out the history of the Islamic Clerics and Scholars as they have always been remained between us ….
But what you know about 58 years old guy (Zaid Hamid) who appeared just 17 months ago …
What did he do rest of his life ???
Hypocrisy, Rhetoric, Communication Skills, Public Speaking ….
All these works for him ….
But he is talking way ahead of reality and premodernistc …
@thedude,
When I say Yousuf Kazzab, I mean the person whose name is Yousuf Ali. Most of the people in Pakistan know him by term Yousuf Kazzab only, therefore I used the same term to avoid confusion.
Now since you are defending Yousuf Ali, please tell ZZH that if he is man of integrity, a true muslim and a true mujahid of Islam, then accept publicly that:
YES – I was closely associated with Yousuf Ali and he was wrongfully convicted of blasphemy
If he can’t do that, then he is definitely a fraudster and con man.
In this video he is very much shaken by the question! He seems to be very shallow, emotional and unconfident in his reply… I don’t know why does he call himself as “hum(we)”…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjyXIaPe2Qc
@ uth oyay
Well for you kind info he never gave FATWA against anyone, he has some strong resevations against the policeis made by our politicians which obviously is his or any general person`s right SO KINDLY CORRECT YOUR RECORDS
Secondly this weak constitution has never helped our nation in way, so if he demands for the Islamic Law or Pure islamic courts..Over the debate issue with Ullema, think about it who will decide if ones right or wrong?? you may not see any harm because you are pro western who beleive in so called two faced Human right policies, I would strongly suggest you to check the Human Rights Policies and its clauses and decide your self. Preliminary HR are in our Islamic teaching.
I dont know where you got your information or probably you dont have that brain to understand the intelectualism behind ZH views. His views against judicail movements were just pesimistic, as you may have seen if the system is currupt the judiciary could not run independently, which you can observe in current situation.
May Allah guide us all to the right path..
He says he talks against CIA, Zardari or R. Malik!
but who knows, it could be just a show and reality could be opposite!
and yet at another point says that “… naa humain ghatia bania hey naa buzdil naa begairat …”!
again reality and self claims could be different!
At one stage he is trying to equate himself with Allama Iqbal and Qaid-e-Azam! What a great personality we got!
@ ALL
I think we as nation are devided between the Practical approach and Rational Approach to the problems…
*Half supports or follow the views of… ( Rational Approach )
Gen Hamid Gul, Dr ISrar Ahmed, Imran Khan, Dr Shahid Masood, Ansar Abassi, Zaid Hamid, Mushtaq Minhas
*Half Supports or speaks in favour of.. (Practical Approach) kum chalaoo mentality
Nusrat Javed, Aftab Iqbal, Dr Tahir ul Qadri. and so on
@shoaib aslam,
Seems like you have been hurt till your inner core. Of course he has not given fatwa as he is not qualified to do so. I used it in term of accusation, as lots of people are accusing Zaid Hamid and ZZH has been accusing so many people of being agents of Jews/CIA etc.
My point is that if he accuses everyone of being agent of CIA/Jews etc without any evidence, then why does he get upset when he is being accused of being khalifa of Yousuf Kazzab even thought there is clear evidence. ZZH begerat has been spreading calculated propaganda against everyone who raises their voice against holy army, where army itself lives on CIA money, paid to kill Muslims, the same CIA who has killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Afghanistan in partnership with full logistical support of Pakistani Army.
Pure BS. Pakistan is in this condition due to violations of constitution, not following constitution. There was no effective constitution from 1947 till 1973, and constitution was raped during long military governments of Zia and Musharraf.
You are surely living in coco land created in your brain by ZZH. Of course there have been violations of Human Rights in West, but even today the most poor in west can drag the most rich to court in west. Their governments fight for their citizen abroad instead of selling their people like Musharaf Kutta did.
The worst Human Rights you would see is in Saudi Arabia under “Islamic Sharia Laws”, where foreign labor are treated like slaves. Almost every Saudi has a foreign maid from Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Bangladesh or other third world countries, whose rape stories regularly appear in local newspapers and majority are not given salaries for months. If 1% of this happens in Britain, no matter if the person is member of parliament or not, he will be sitting in jail in no time. This is true Islam, evolved through continuous improvement in constitution, unlike the fake racist culture that is practiced by Muslim countries.
I have seen his video where he clearly accuses Judicial Movement of being funded by CIA/Jews. There is not a tiny doubt in my mind on his intentions and the exact message he was paid to pass to kids like you. May be calling everyone CIA/Jew agent is called intellectualism in your language.
Prophet Muhammad(SAW) ibn Abdullah the last messenger of Allah(SWT)! No one was like him, and no one can be like him, he is one and only!
One needs to be extremely careful of false claimers of prophethood and their followers…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA0g1W7-abA
@ uth oyay
You have only one thing to say that he was follower of Yousuf Kazaab which is not proven in any way the only thing which has been spread by the Faasadis, the only audio tape which has been published in media does not clearly constitute a peice of eveidence that ZH was appointed Kahilfa by Yousaf Kazab. is there any other proof do you have? So dont mention Yousaf Kazab again and again cause that is not true.. just go to the Lahore high court/or if you know some one there find out the case or judjment against Yousuf Kazab and see it your self the truth.
You may have been blind folded by the western interests, as long as they feed you it would be ok for them to invade you. ZH was the one who practically fought in Afghan if may i remind you… you may think it wasnt right?
And yeh i never gave u example of Saudi or any other Arab coutry as they been run by the westerns as well so drop them out..
We as Muslim Pakistanis have to stand firm and lead the other muslim nations to the path which we have promissed to our God, in the process of creation of pakistan.
If you/me or our nation are not ready to accept this challenge, which may need sacrifices.
And it is very small thing to understand that most of these consipireises are funded by CIA/or Isreal. if you dont want to accept it thats you being an ignorant. or not have enough clearence in your mind about their interests against us..
Kindly i would like to ask you what he is doing know, do you see any thing wrong init, so i would like to know… if not then why are you against him? give me a simple answer?
@All
If any one against ZAid Hamid, kindly give a reason???
Apart from Yousuf kazab issue cause that is not true… Just check ZH videos which he answed thouroghly on FB or if you belive him it would be good idea to check this at Lahore High records for the judjment.. Dont just belive what media shows you investigate youself.
Reason please? for the haters of ZH
@shoaib aslam,
Just like ZZH, you will never give a straight answer.
Before telling me if I have read the Lahore High Court Judgment or not, first tell me if you have read the 128 page document or not?
If not, first read it here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28324385/Yusuf-Kazab-Case-Full-Court-Proceedings-Detailed-Judgement
If your scholar has objection with the judgment, then tell him to go to Supreme Court. The judges already had taken oath of loyalty of army chief in 2000and I have not heard ZZH accusing the dictator at that time, therefore I assume he must be satisfied with the judgment. He also owes explanation where did he disappear from 2000 for so many years. Was he doing Afghan Jihad? As pro or anti-american? Most people believe that he provides security services via Brass Tacks to Americans and other Foreigners who visit Pakistan and Afghanistan.
And for your blind information, the laws and clauses of constitution are included in the judgment of Yousuf Kazzab based on which he was sentenced. These laws were made and agreed unanimously by all sections of ulema of Islam in Pakistan before making them part of the constitution. It makes more sense that their collective version of Islamic laws included in constitution are better than single views of Yousuf Kazzab and his Khalifa ZZH.
If you think this is the wrong way and want some sort of your own system, then I suggest that you guys should stand in election and prove that you can get majority of the votes from this nation. I would be surprised if you got even 1%.
If you hate constitution like ZZH, then I would recommend you to go to hell, as this country belongs to Pakistani Nation, who elected the creators of constitution and it’s their will on how this country will be run, not by few fanatics like ZZH.
Zaid Zaman Hamid’s Guide to Foreigners coming to Pakistan:
1- Dressing is an important consideration. Look around and dress as everyone else. Controlling body exposure level is important consideration. {specially head. Use of red Othoman era Turkish hat like mine is highly recommended}
2- Do not kiss opposite sex in public, not even at the airports. Not for a minute, not for a second, NOT at all. {no problemo in private}
3- Do not hug or embrace opposite sex in Public. {my eyes closed for private}
4- Do not photograph women without their asking first. {unless she is doctor Aafia, for which you can do whatever you want}
5- Do not shake hands with women or touch them, unless they extend their hands first. {highly intellectual tip}
6- Do not smile to stranger women or talk to them. {really?}
7- Do not drink alcohol in public, or smoke drugs. It is illegal. Even carrying a bottle of liquor in Public can be asking for trouble. {hire my security services for safe drinking}
8- Remain sober in Public places. Drunks can be arrested. {contact me if you get arrested}
9- Pork is illegal and offensive to locals. Do not eat in Public or offer it to any Muslim. This is serious. {also buying pork from meat shops and restaurants for eating is illegal}
10- Smoking is OK. {okay for all type. contact me for special flavor that I imported from Afghanistan}
Source: http://brasstacks.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6:a-newcomers-guide-to-pakistan&catid=1:latest-news
I have studied the material in depth and know Zaid Hamid Zaman indirectly from Islamabad.
He suffers from a mental state and is not of sound mental health. He does love and wants better for Pakistan but via a violent youth movement styled on the skeletal remains of afgan-warior-style “revolution”.
He was in the past associated with a psychic called Yousaf Ali who used to sell the deedar of Rasool Allah s.a.w for different amounts of money and was assassinated in a jail by followers of Sipah Sahaba after he was accused of making ghustakh statements………the courts were about to release him but he was killed and a group of ulema was behind this killing. Life in Pakistan is worth-less since loooong time…..
Zaid Hamid belongs to military family and used to be a guide for people who wanted to visit Afghanistan and he was a very good guide. Due to his mental state he is a good story teller and dramatics is his favorite style even back then….he is also a little hyper and tries to “show” that he is efficient…for no reasons……….but he does need “love”, for the sake of “love” you can get him to do anything……..we think he was abused in his childhood and suffers from parental alienation syndrome…he has always wanted a father figure and looked for sarparasti….this is how he became an associate of the Yousaf Ali fake sufi….
He tried to sell his services to a lot of buyers, Iranians, afghan, drug smugglers, even Indian of Dubai origin….as a master guide but all of these people did not retain him for long …..since past 4 years he was dying to get on the pay roll of black-water type companies, he even tried to rob the NATO conveys and then tried to present himself as a security company but those contracts were given to children of Jamali and Laghari’s.
We should let Zaid Hamid settle his score with these ulema and allow the ulema to crush his violent movement……..simple solution….some of these ulema are also bad people, they take money to do all this and Zaid Hamid is also selling old ideas to new buyers…..
We do know that he was hired by ISPR to start rallying above F.A level students on a Pakistan idea…………ISPR is doing the same, readying a new lot of kids to be killed by proxy war……our army never directly goes to war..they always use “jazbati” noujowan…..always…….and this time they want the middle class to give the blood to keep the idea of pakistan zindabad….and they found this looser…..ISPR also tried to use the barelwi-cult and are still in negotiations with Tahir ul Qadri………but Tahir ul Qadri is not able to collect the remaining barelwis under his pope-hood…….
The reason people hate him is for his trying to fill in the gap of a religious warrior role…….our people do not like domestic products…….and he does not get that….he watches David Icke and reads his stuff and then translates that into debate type speech and just like fake doctor Amir Liyaqat, this is another fake mujahid and that’s why people are hating him……..simple Pakistani mentality…..
let them fight it out……pay attention to other topics of importance……
Mulla!
@uth oye
“YES – I was closely associated with Yousuf Ali and he was wrongfully convicted of blasphemy
If he can’t do that, then he is definitely a fraudster and con man.”
dude … what r u talking about … he has done it already … see the part starting from around 5:00 minutes of this 10 minute video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdOdxN8usPo
he says, [b]“I knew Yusuf Ali very well”[/b] … what else do you need?
also you can see all of 6 videos for complete context:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf0Ng6DfA9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfMOZXla28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMTZGbyDjWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkXxBMA4yqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdOdxN8usPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qURvT38vBA
again … i’m not a supporter of Zaid Hamid or Yusuf Ali … I personally don’t like ZH’s emotion-filled speeches …
i’m just saying:
1 – the case against Yusuf Ali is very weak and calling him Kazzaab (which is arabic for ‘liar’) and a Nabuwwat-claimant is extremely unfair
2 – hence ZH’s might’ve supported him in the same spirit that I’m supporting him in the above point
3 – the death of Jalalpuri and his companions is extremely saddening incident and proper inquiry should be done and culprits brought to justice by an honest justice system (whether the culprit turns out to be ZH or someone else)
4 – but the accusation by Khatm-e-Nabuwwat people that ZH is behind killings is too early and might let the real culprits off the hook … which will hurt the Khatm-e-Nabuwwat people in the long run
seriously … they shouldn’t call themselves Khatm-e-Nabuwwat …
they seem to be more interested in having some Nabuwwat-claimant (real or fake) to pick on … because that will be the only thing that’ll justify the existence of their tehreek …
it’s like the doctors who want more and more people to get sick otherwise their business will go down
@ uth oyay
Well the judjment does not include his ZH name thoough so its irrelevent and im not disputing Yousf Kazab issue so y u keep bringing this issue.
And i`m really diosappointed about that lnaguage u used in ur comments this shows how civilised you are and your manners..
Your type of people believes in fake democracy, and elect your so call leaders, who does not care about Pakistan and our nation..
Atleast our type of few people do care about our dignity and pride, not sell by making Kerry Loger bills, im sure u would again support this type of bills as practical thinker. in the name of democray….
All the accusation you put on your comments are just basless.. and proved that you are another sheep..
About your Guide to Foreigners coming to Pakistan:
These athics are provided for strangers to visit to Pakistan and i dont undertsnad what point you want to prove by puting this here. These types of ethiocs u could find in any travel services website.??
In the end i would only Pray for you as God may guide u to right path..
@zaheer says
“He says he talks against CIA, Zardari or R. Malik!
but who knows, it could be just a show and reality could be opposite!”
You is “WHO” who knows everything in his heart.
WHO could be more stupid than who is “YOU”
Well Brothers, let me tell U that i have 100′s of Vidz of Zaid Hamid and my laptop is full of his programs but unfortunately and sadly i came across some of his proofs being related to Yousaf Kazzab.I liked him and i still have respect 4 him and i hope that he must have repented 4 being the supporter of Yousaf Kazzab because whatever he did in the past was on account of his ignorance.Few Points to be noted:
1) ATKNP has nothing to do with “Corrupt Molvis” like Mulana Fazulurrahman Diesel and others.It is an unbiased and apolitical organization that defends merely the end of Prophet-hood.
2) 2ndly, The most important proof of Zaid being the Khaleefa of Yousaf is that he went to Tanzeem-e-Islami office in Lahore where he told Dr. Israr Ahmad that he supported Yousaf Kazzab in the 90′s but now he has nothing to do with him or his organization anymore.here is the proof…
http://i43.tinypic.com/s62lpg.jpg
3) The voice of Zaid is manifest as that of 2day when he was introduced by Yousaf Kazzab himself along with other Guy “Abdul Wahid”.here is the link…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyshh4G-QU
Not good Not good!! This is a new war initiating!! This is so much hatred. Guys can we just cool down?? Cant we diolog. The terrorists are trying to put chaos in the country and by starting all these fights we are just encouraging them with all these strikes as well!! The industry is already at a standstill and these people want more strikes!
Mr. Zaid Zaman Hamid is a man of word, a honest, a brave, a patriotic, a true Muslim and Pakistan.
I am 100% agreed with @ shoaib aslam…
LONG LIVE PAKISTAN
&
Long Live
Dr Israr Ahmed, Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan, Zaid Hamid,Imran Khan, Gen Hamid Gul, Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, Justice Anwar Zaheer Jamali, Dr Shahid Masood, Ansar Abassi, Talat Husain, Javed Chaudhry, Kashif Abassi, Shehzad Roy, Ali Azmat
Zahid Hamid has sown so much hatred against everyone. It is time now to reap some of that.
Pakistan is a mad mad world. Even though Mr. Hamid has denied even talking to the victim. He denied any hand in the murder. But people here have already decided that he is the killer.
People are so emotional that even the due process of law would not clear their heads. Wait for a second and think about what is being said here. He has been named by this muslim scholor in the first information report. How truthfull these allegations are, no one wants to wait for …. just pass the judgement and make it a history.
@ uth oyay
just have a look at this video and its complete chain on youtube, you will find your answers
http://www.youtube.com/p/33CB6D9297B3511D&hl=en_US&fs=1
and quote it every where you want, may Allah bless all of us with the right path.
anyone who is against sharia and against khatam-e-nabuwat will go to hell. and if someone is working for restoration of sharia in this world may Allah bless him/her with success, amin!
what is this bukwas debate going on between these mullas- i believe all these mullas are kizzabs-liars- they are against each other and against the country;s advancement. just think how should we get rid of them-
Pakistan needs to get rid of this violent molvie culture. The rest of the world is going in a different direction and Pakistan is going in the opposite direction.
@shoaib aslam,
Now you are doing aayain baayain shayain.
First you said that you don’t believe in corrupt courts and their judgment against Yousuf Kazzab, and since I have given you complete judgment, you are saying that it is irrelevant because it does not have ZZH name in it.
Read it again. ZZH’s name is written on 5th line on page 42.
It becomes very relevant since the movement you are following is led by a man who is fraudster.
It is a good oportunity for the people specially youth , to read Quran and Hadith, to find the truth. People have to come out of the influence of the Political Mullahs.
This is the best thing for Pukhtuns if ISI trained terrorists start infighting and leave us alone!
i myself disagree with lots of zaid hamid ‘s bongian, but i dont think that he is involved in this murder. infect, zaid hamid openly critcises pakistani taliban, lal masjid terrorist and thier supporters in so called deeni jamaat like fazal ur rehman group and jamat e islami idiots. so these sick heads mullahs are now united to defend their heroes taliban and defame zaid hamid.
zaid hamid on youtube and on an interview with paksitanfirst .com has denied that he is not supporter of anyone who claims prophethood after prophet Muhammad (saw). although he never mentioned clearly his association with yousuf kazaab.
but as far as these idiots mullah in vdo above are concerned, they are idiots. i laugh at the hartaal call of this mullah “aap Allah ke liye apni dukan band kare ek din ke liye, ulema ke saath tawayun karen aap ko ajer mile ga”.
God help those, what kind of people are now presenting paksitan issues these days. so sad.
@Wahid Doyum
I concur.
I have heard Zahid few times – I think he has a good heart and I don’t believe that he is involved in any murder.
Mullahs seems to be against him because he is talking on their duty – talks about religion and khalafat – which is good for the country.
I would like to see Pakistan as a social welfare sate. Why not -
I have heard Zahid few times – I think he has a good heart and I don’t believe that he is involved in any murder.
Mullahs seems to be against him because he is taking on their duty – talks about religion and khalafat – which is good for the country.
I would like to see Pakistan as a social welfare state. Why not –
“ignore the typos in first submission”
یا الله بچا ہمیں جاہل مولویوں سے- یہ پاکستان کو تباہ کر کے چھوڑیں گے
@ Wahid Doyum
You are a fake Muslim/Pushtun/Afghan. You have said many things against our country on this website and you have praised terrorism in Lahore.
I just hope that you put your views with your real name on Youtube so that we could see who you really are (your hate filled words point to a specific country and religion thoug!)!!! Remember this website is Pkpolitics… you should join some other wesbite!
Well,
Pakistan was free from all kinds of religious terrorism and sectarian extremism before ISI made a blunder: to start in the 70s a proxy war in Afghanistan in order to occupy it just like it occupied Balochistan, Sindh, Saraikistan and Pashtoonkhwa. ISI (or Punjabi Imperialism) created, sponsered and sustained some terrorist outfits (like so-called Mujahideens, Talibaan, Sipa e Suhaba, Sipa e Mohammad, MQM, Lashkar e Tayyaba, Islamic Youth Force, etc) against Afghanistan, India and oppressed nations of Pakistan.
Pakistan can never see peace and harmoney until Punjabi Imperilism reverses its myophic decision of colonizing Afghanistan and subjugating India by using terrorism through these terrorist outfits.
We want Pakistan to be a true federation where historic nations-Punjabi, Baloch, Pashtoon, Sindhi and Saraiki-enjoy genuine national political autonomy. We want true democracy to flurish in Pakistan so all citizens get justice and live in peace and prosperity.
Ghani Dotani,
Århus, Denmark
We are very near JUDGEMENT DAY and this type of FITTNAS or others more
stories of FITTNAS because everybody have little knowledge or information of
ISLAM he unerstand he MOLVI or TEESMARKHAN for God sake please please sorry to
say we are day to day very far from ALLAH som please come back and takes your hands
for DUAA to ALLAH RABULALAMEEN to forgiven us and save our country from all
FITTNAS AND SHARRS. (AAMEEN)
Just take a look of this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBDgAmGY63A
ان بے چارے مولویوں کو کیا پتا کہ زمانہ کیا چال چل رھا ھے۔ یہ زید حامد کا کام نھیں بلکہ سی آے اے اور بلیک واٹر کی کاروای ھے۔ آج ھی کی خبر ھے کہ امریکہ نے ن پاکستان میں اپنا پرائویٹ جاسوسی کا نظام قائم کردیا ھے۔امریکا جب چاھے گا جس کو چاھے گا قتل کرے گا ۔ زردازی کو سوئس اکاونٹ مین ادائگی ھوتی رھے گی۔
پاکستان کے عوام کو جاگنا پڑے گا ورنہ بقول شاعر ۔
تمھاری داستان تک بھی نہ ہو گی داستانوں میں
well thats what happens if someone tries to wake up muslim nation… he has to face all this crap, why would zaid hamid kill somebody , these are the same molvis who were against Allama iqbal and who were against Quaid e Azam and called them kafir and everything and they were against MAKING PAKISTAN and now if someone is doing for pakistan they are again against him, but yeah they are always with corrupt govt. and they support them. and support the SOOOD SYSTEM and everything.
zaid hamid a true momin , the best translator of Allama iqbal and woke up the youth of pakistan and working for pakistan, and i guess if we dont want him, then we must be happy with zardari and his team,
who is zaid hamid and who he works for…… i guess thats the best answer about Zaid hamid in his own voice.
must watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG3nFqSg5IM
@uth oyay
I Totally aggre with u man…u ve very solid reasoning and profound thoughts..
n i feel srry for the guys who r getting emotional abt abt Zaid hamid…This guys is jst using anti maerican feelings in pak to promote himself with the help of his masters which lie in the establisment…thats y he is running around in evry university without any problem..
he is a war monger , a hate spreader labelling other as agents but infact he is himself an agent……..
plz guys open up ur eyes and dont let other make u emotional in the name of patriotism and religion to carry out their nefarious goals..plz i request all of u..
I think everyone’s gone off their heads. That anyone can even think of Zaid Hamid being involved in horrors like this one! He’s a man of complete integrity and towering faith. All the so-called Muslims in powr positions are running scared. Everything is grist to the mill of Zaid Hamid’s enemies as long as they can hope to make some impression on the uninformed. Shame on them, shame!
@pashtoonkhwa912
I aggre with u also man 100%, very profound thoughts..
long live pakistan, long live pashtoon , punjabis sindhis balcohis saraikis hinkos and all others in Pak…
zaid hamid is a lier
@uth oyay
and long live Mr.uth oyay ……….
mirza galibh , good job
phoonkoon say yeh charagh bhujaya na jaey ga,
nara-e-takbeer
Allah-o-Akbar.
pakistan ka matlab kaya,
la Ilaha Il-Allah
pakistan ka maqsad kaya
Muhammad-ur- rasool-ul-Allah
may Allah bless zaid hamid if he is on the right path (which seems he is
because his understanding about islam is much better than the so called
mullah’s)
any one who supports murderers (tehreek-e-taliban pakistan) is any enemy of Islam because they are killing innocent Muslims, if somebody thinks these murderers are right then go and read the decision of the holy quran,
On that account We ordained for the Children of Isra`il that if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (5:32)
and do not kill ourselves; surely Allah is Merciful to you. And whoever does this aggressively and unjustly, We will soon cast him into Fire; and this is easy for Allah.” (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:29-30)
may Allah bless us with strong eeman and true understanding of the holy quran and sunat-e-rashool, and may Allah bless us with a true, sincere, pious and strong leadership, amin!
Dear hannan sahib
not sure which world you’re living in but the charming and earnest mr hamid seems rather fond of ‘murderers’ like the TTP
here’s a nice gem for everyone on this thread from Kamran Shafi
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/kamran-shafi-the-crazy-right-and-rump-pakistan-630
@mirza ghalib
so pray tell what does Zaid Hamid this upright tower of islamic integrity actually preach?
“”"”"Here is the present high priest of the crazy Right, one Zaid (Zaman) Hamid, reportedly speaking on something called ‘Ummah Radio’: “Pakistan is in the headlines again! Oh people! Know that it is a combined action of RAW and Mossad to dismantle the divinely placed concrete foundations of the house of the pure, the feared fort of Islam. We are a nation which is like a glittering star of guidance for the crescent of the whole Muslim world, the pioneer of the creation of the green united states of Islam in the world that is drowning in the sea of ignorance.
“Oh Muslims! Always hold on to truth, and the truth is that it is yet again a Zionist-controlled western media’s conspiracy. Let’s rise up against the enemies of Islam; let’s nuke the … Hindus and Jews, the nefarious dark forces of this planet. Insha’allah, the time for shahadat is near. My sons and daughters, get ready for the big day, the promised day when Allah will make the Muslims victorious and Jews will run here and there to find shelter. Even the trees will talk and will say: ‘these sons of apes and swines are hiding behind my trunk’.
“Rise up and get ready for the mass suicide. Great nations die for a noble cause. What is more nobler than wiping the enemies of Islam from the face of this earth? Remember, Islam is a peaceful religion. Allah commands us to take care of each other. All are equal in the eyes of Allah. Slay them with your daggers. …Islam will rule the world….”. The transmission is interrupted. Announcer: “We are trying to re-establish the connection with our great leader, meanwhile we will ask Qari Bakir to recite ‘Surah Tauba’.” “”"”
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/kamran-shafi-the-crazy-right-and-rump-pakistan-630
Red, at least we’d nuke our friends the Hindus and the Jews. If called upon to do so. you’d probably turn around and nuke the Muslims off the face of the earth. all it would need would be the say-so of your West masters.
@gv – No, sorry. There are enough Zaid Hamid videos around. Just listen to one or two and you’ll pick up what he preaches. But still, out of the goodness of my heart, I’ll simplify matters: Love for God, the Prophet (PBUH), our homeland Pakistan. This and this alone is Zaid Hamid’s message.
“”"”our next award is for the most Blessedly Warped TV Personality. And the nominees are: Zion Hamid; Dr. Aamer Aafat; and Dr. Shahid Barood. This is a tough one. But, alas, the winner is the great Zion Hamid. Zion sahib, kindly come and take your award from Wamid Mir saheb.
Zion sahib is in India at the moment, Shireen. He will be with us via satellite. You can see and hear his acceptance speech on this big screen behind me. Yes, Mr. Zion.
Hello, Wamid. Hello people. I am speaking to you live from the Red Fort in New Delhi. And I want to give the nation the good news that my army has taken over India. Rejoice!
That’s India? You are sitting in front of a video backdrop of the Red Fort.
Shut-up, Wamid. What do you know? You’re a CIA agent, anyway. I am in India, and to prove it, I have with me, Muhammad Bin Qasim! Say hello to our brothers and sisters in Pakistan, Qasim bhai.
That’s Ali Azmat!
Shut-up, Wamid. He is Muhammad Bin Qasim. Every Pakistani is Muhammad Bin Qasim!
Even the women?
Especially the women! Have you ever seen Maria B without make-up?
You are making fun of your own supporter?
We are at war. And war is fun.
Err … Zion sahib, the Red Fort backdrop was just replaced by a backdrop of a beach in Honolulu.
It was? Oh … umm … that’s not Honolulu. That’s a beach near Mumbai.
Really? Since when have Mumbai beaches got Hawaiian women dancing on them?
Well … err … its tourism season here in Mumbai.
But we thought you were in Delhi.
I am! I can prove it. I have with me Aishwarya Rai. Say hello to your new rulers, sister Aishwarya.
What? That’s Ahmed Qureshi in a sari!
How dare you! Enough! I can’t accept this stupid USA-India-UK-Papua New Guinea-sponsored award of yours. I have better things to do.
Like what?
Like conquering Israel! My next speech to the nation will be delivered from Tel Aviv.
I see. Well, good luck, Zion sahib. By the way, before you go, just wanted to tell you your backdrop has changed again. And it looks very much like Disney Land.
Alhamdulillah! It seems we’ve conquered the United States as well. Rejoice!”"”
http://blog.dawn.com/2010/02/18/awards-night/
Amir Shahzad above: Thanks.
Mirza Ghalib,
“”"”Red, at least we’d nuke our friends the Hindus and the Jews. If called upon to do so. you’d probably turn around and nuke the Muslims off the face of the earth. all it would need would be the say-so of your West masters.”"”"
>>>
hmmmmm
Rest assured I’m not gonna nuke either Muslims or Hindus/Jews
)
BTW it’s Zaid Zaman Hamid who wants to nuke Hindus/Jews and some Islamofascist fanatics are not ashamed of Mad Hamid’s rants and are rather trying to support him !
P.S. I’m a free soul and don’t have any masters
))
@mirza ghalib
you obviously have a very selective way of interpreting what Zaid hamid preaches
i have seen his videos – he preaches hatred, violence and makes a mockery of islamic history and current affairs
i’m a little confused i find it hard to understand how you are the same person who can both appreciate this comment by hbkhawaja (http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/what-i-believe#post-130221) as well as support anything that a hate monger like Zaid Hamid has to say
Dear Red Scorpion,
You have every right to make fun of people on media or even our politicians. But you have no right to make fun of our heroes like Muhammad Bin Qasim. Please be careful. By doing this you make yourself suspicious. By the way I owe you an answer on another front on this forum.
@gv
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/kamran-shafi-the-crazy-right-and-rump-pakistan-630
with due respects gv sahib.
i cant see anything in this link showing that zaid hamid is a supporter of tehreek-e-taliban pakistan. rather i have seen him opposing these murderers many time. just go to youtube and there you can find plenty of such videos.
and another point from this article which i would like to quote
“Let’s rise up against the enemies of Islam; let’s nuke the … Hindus and Jews, the nefarious dark forces of this planet.”
i never heard this from him, the only point which he raise is get prepared for a war which India is going to impose on us in near future, and i think there is nothing wrong if we prepare for defending ourselves, if anybody have a doubt about this just try to open eyes that India is building dams on the water sources coming to Pakistan and is trying to pressurize Pakistan from all sides because they have never accepted us a separate nation, and who do you think is behind these terrorist attacks in Lahore or in other parts of Pakistan, if anybody have a doubt that India has nothing to do with things happening in Pakistan, sorry to say but i don’t want to waste my time with such “innocent” people.
may Allah bless our country and strengthen it so that no enemy cannot harass us with their megalomania. amin!
@hannan
forgive me my intrusion – i am obviously a lost cause
good bye
@gv
my brother, i am really sorry if you got hurt by some of my words, but this is a fact that i get emotional when there comes the name of the holy prophet (SAW) or something bad happens to my country Pakistan, and the fact is Pakistan is being bashed from all sides especially by our worst neighbor who don’t have enough respect for humanity and is killing so many innocent Pakistani people by utilizing murderers like tehrik-e-taliban pakistan etc.
RAW and CIA were only created to play marbles with each other and the latter is on a sight seeing trip in Pakistan for the last 8 years with a budget of $50 billion dollars per year.
Kamran Shafi is very selective, he thinks he is the hard man of journalism, why doesn’t he talk about the biggest terrorists in Karachi, MQM.
controvery about zaid hamid is well exposed by Daily Insaf lhr and could be viewd following this link http://www.insaf.com.pk/issues/2010/March/16/epaper/p1.htm
I personally think that it is not a good way to unnecessarily emotionalize and make people hyper through crazy talks! Our people have been misused by so many people in this way, even our political leaders are habitual to address people in a very emotional way to play with their feelings!
One should talk in a mild and controlled way so that people understand it and could digest it. Words spoken in a soft and solid way with inner conviction have much bigger and long lasting effects than spoken in opposite tone. I think, we as nation need to calm down and develop habit of thinking, planning and acting in controlled, realistic and calm way than flying in air most of the time.
I think we better concentrate more upon internal matters of Pakistan than wishing to conquer India or any other land! Frankly speaking we don’t need something like that, Pakistan is enough for us and we must protect and manage it properly which so far we are unable to do. It is also an insensible and mad idea to wipe out any nation from earth etc; if accepted such an idea it means that we will be killing innocents too and our religion does not support harm to innocents not even during war. Don’t play with people using religion and patriotism.
I wish that India stops with its dirty games against Pakistan and shows sensibility and sincerity; they are being pushed by some other forces to commit stupidity and suicide!
We need to find a good and peaceful solution to problem in Afghanistan; USA and Co. needs to realize that they have made mistakes and there should not be further; any more mistake increases the magnitude of problems for everyone. World can’t be controlled through wars or games, one day things start reacting in opposite direction if this methodology continues! Why always war to achieve results why not peace and sincerity?
My opinion.
@jazoo
“You is “WHO” who knows everything in his heart.”
, no it is you! I have also mentioned above that no one knows what is in the heart of a person! E.g. You are a Shia and doing Taqiyya most probably and no body knows but you know! 
“WHO could be more stupid than who is “YOU””
Again it could be you!
gv – I definitely owe you a reply. I was touched that you referred me back to myself so smoothly. But actually nothing of what I said there is incompatible with the great respect I feel for Zaid Hamid, the one and only person in Pakistan who has given me back hope for my country and its future.
Zaid Hamid is neither a hate-monger (sounds like a remark straight out of the Zio West that one. Jews are always calling everyone that, and Muslims in the first place. Nor is Zaid Hamid a warmonger. He has simply warned us to be careful of India as we go along. Good advice, I’d say, in the light of India’s latest developments.
Otherwise everything I said at 1:19 pm holds. Zaid Hamid’s message is one of love and light.
Red (1.25pm) – I’m glad you feel a free soul without any masters. That’s more than most of us manage to achieve in an entire lifetime.
Dear Admin,
If you kindly come out of “only Punjab is Pakistan” then Kindly do post the most Hot news in media about the rubbish uttered by CM lion Shahbaz Sharif of PMLN about their love for Taliban and extremist forces and moreover they spare PUNJAB while they are free to do in the rest of Pakistan.Kindly show some balance approach and put such items for discussion as well,otherwise,its good to have Pkpolitics renamed as Pro Punjab PMLN Political wing,then we will not demand u any such things.
Thanks
Corrupt JUI and Fazal ur Rehman and unknown n self claimed “International ” Movenment of Khatm e Nabuwat ” who never contributed anything good for society are staging this whole episode – just to make ZZH controversial -
These Toofanis and fazl ur Rehmans they are typicall lusty mullahs are tools of establishment
for them Iqbal said
” Deen e Mullah fi sabeel Allah Fassad “
@Believer said:
”
@ Wahid Doyum
You are a fake Muslim/Pushtun/Afghan. You have said many things against our country on this website and you have praised terrorism in Lahore.
I just hope that you put your views with your real name on Youtube so that we could see who you really are (your hate filled words point to a specific country and religion thoug!)!!! Remember this website is Pkpolitics… you should join some other wesbite!”
And you’re a fake “believer” it seems as you’re more interested in personality then the message. Why don’t you start by putting your real name and face on youtube?
I am already a member of many pro-pukthun websites and you’re welcome to join them, but I cannot ignore the site of those who are openly my enemies (see Punjab leader SS statement for further proof of evils of colonial mindset).
how can anyone take zahid hamid and his likes seriously? This guy is mentally disturbed.
@salmanli. Atleast he has the freedom to express himself. We do not really have to agree with him but we should be tolerant enough to let him speak. I believe terrorists are aware of the fact and they are availing every option to create chaos in the country. We condemn this strictly!
Hear! Hear!, salmanli. Well stated.
@zaheer
Zaid Hamid is not shia so why taqqayya.
You don’t know whats in his heart but you feel no shame to say “who knows whats in his heart”
This Expression is used when one not ready to believe what one says.
“Any one who becomes unbeliever after being believer, EXCLUDING the
one who is under compulsion and force while his hurt is firm in faith,
but the one go on in disbelief, Wrath of Allah is on to them and they
will have a dreadful penalty,” (Quran 16:106)
Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his book, “al-Durr al-Manthoor Fi al-Tafsir al-
Ma’athoor,” narrates Ibn Abbas’, the MOST renowned and trusted narrator of
tradition, opinion regarding al-Taqiyya in the Quranic verse:
“Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, (they) shall have no relation left with Allah except by way of precaution (“tat- aqooh”), that ye may guard yourselves (“tooqatan”) from them….[3:28]”
Ibn Abbas said:
“al-Taqiyya is with the tongue only; he who has been COERCED into
saying that which angers Allah (SWT), and his heart is comfortable
(i.e., his TRUE faith has NOT been shaken.), then (saying that which
he has been coerced to say) will NOT harm him (at all); (because) al-
Taqiyya is with the tongue only, (NOT the heart).”
The two words “tat-taqooh” and “tooqatan,” as mentioned in the Arabic
Quran, are BOTH from the same root of “al-Taqiyya.”
In early days of Islam in Mecca when kuffar start killing Sahabah with ugliest torture…Prophet allow them to even denounce kalma and Shahadah of his prophethood as long as their hearts are not bent.
It has been narrated by Abd al-Razak, Ibn Sa’d, Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim,
Ibn Mardawayh, al-Bayhaqi in his book “al- Dala-il,” and it was corrected
by al-Hakim in his book “al- Mustadrak” that:
“The nonbelievers arrested `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) and (tortured him
until) he (RA) uttered foul words about the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and
praised their gods (idols); and when they released him (RA), he (RA)
went straight to the Prophet (PBUH&HF). The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said:
“Is there something on your mind?” `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) said: “Bad
(news)! They would not release me until I defamed you (PBUH&HF) and
praised their gods!” The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “How do you find
your heart to be?” `Ammar (RA) answered: “Comfortable with faith.” So
the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “Then if they come back for you, then do
the same thing all over again.” Allah (SWT) at that moment revealed
the verse: “….except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in
faith…[16:106]”
The full verse:
Shakir 16:106] He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief– on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.
[Yusufali 16:106] Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith – but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.
[Pickthal 16:106] Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief – save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with the Faith – but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqeTgTP3Hjk&feature=player_embedded#
Hi every one,
Here is Final Press Release by Mr. Zaid Hamid On Yusuf Ali ‘Kazzab’ Issue…
Please Must Read for your clarification…
Page one:
http://i44.tinypic.com/6ro4ud.jpg
Page two:
http://i42.tinypic.com/md2zqc.jpg
Page three:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2poe2wz.jpg
Above is a copy of the FINAL press release from Mr. Zaid Hamid and BrassTacks on the Yusuf ‘Kazzab’ issue, which unfortunately has been used to launch a campaign.
Hope all of you can now lay this matter to rest and not create further fitna Inshallah.
How Indian media is ruining our next generation!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkKvWbZiIJs&feature=player_embedded
Well Brothers, let me tell U that i have 100’s of Vidz of Zaid Hamid and my laptop is full of his programs but unfortunately and sadly i came across some of his proofs being related to Yousaf Kazzab.I liked him and i still have respect 4 him and i hope that he must have repented 4 being the supporter of Yousaf Kazzab because whatever he did in the past was on account of his ignorance.Few Points to be noted:
1) ATKNP has nothing to do with “Corrupt Molvis” like Mulana Fazulurrahman Diesel and others.It is an unbiased and apolitical organization that defends merely the end of Prophet-hood.
2) 2ndly, The most important proof of Zaid being the Khaleefa of Yousaf is that he went to Tanzeem-e-Islami office in Lahore where he told Dr. Israr Ahmad that he supported Yousaf Kazzab in the 90’s but now he has nothing to do with him or his organization anymore.here is the proof…
http://i43.tinypic.com/s62lpg.jpg
3) The voice of Zaid is manifest as that of 2day when he was introduced by Yousaf Kazzab himself along with other Guy “Abdul Wahid”.here is the link…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyshh4G-QU
Please before forming any opinion….. do watch this… its a detailed answer by Zaid Hamid….
http://www.youtube.com/p/33CB6D9297B3511D&hl=en_US&fs=1
May Allah bless all of us wisdom, truth and vision.
Mullah’s cant see ZH becoming the power of youth and has massive potential to hijack their politics, I want to see him raise from dust and settle on new horizon.
@jazoo
“Zaid Hamid is not shia so why taqqayya.”
Anyone can do that it is not difficult, of course for Shias it is like brushing the teeth and it is probably the most important worship for them, and i also wrote he(Zaid) could do something similar to Taqqayya!
“You don’t know whats in his heart but you feel no shame to say “who knows whats in his heart” ”
I felt shame that is why i said that “who knows” otherwise i could have written like “he is surely like that…”!
“This Expression is used when one not ready to believe what one says.”
By the way, above expression could be used to show possibilities or probability…! “not ready to believe” is not a necessary condition in this case Mr. Expression!
Good play of words and that is what Shias know good although reality they know very little as their most energies are wasted in playing word games and cheating simple people!
“Any one who becomes unbeliever after being believer, EXCLUDING the
one who is under compulsion and force while his hurt is firm in faith,
but the one go on in disbelief, Wrath of Allah is on to them and they
will have a dreadful penalty,” (Quran 16:106)
So from that EXCLUDING you and your tribe has inferred the ground for telling lies and cheating and has taken it as worship rather than keeping it for exceptional situations! You people have made it necessary rather than doing it under compulsion! It is the problem of my Shia fellows that they are most of the time looking to stretch the meanings for the support of their strange faiths and actions and in this process they play with Ayahs, they seem to concentrate upon individual words than whole Ayays and their contexts!
“Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his book, “al-Durr al-Manthoor Fi al-Tafsir al-
Ma’athoor,” narrates Ibn Abbas’, the MOST renowned and trusted narrator of
tradition, opinion regarding al-Taqiyya in the Quranic verse: ”
Don’t have access to the book so can’t tell what is written there and what is the real context! Another normal act of Shias that many times they refer to the books that are not common and then they try to exploit that situation in their favor! You people would be spent in this process of playing tricks i suppose! Open your eyes and brains and understand that goal is to understand and follow Islam and not to defend sects like Shiaism!
At the same time they have created their own books of hadith and stay away from real major books of Hadith! They feel good at going against Islam in maximum possible aspects!
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/shia-texts/shia-holy-books
“Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, (they) shall have no relation left with Allah except by way of precaution (“tat- aqooh”), that ye may guard yourselves (“tooqatan”) from them….[3:28]”
This Ayah also mentions an exceptional situation involving unbelievers but you people have made it not only necessary but also stretched it for almost all times, conditions! Shia fellows have made Taqiyyah lawful even among themselves, so they play with each other using the game Taqiyyah Taqiyyah, and against other Muslims too i.e. against Sunnies! Conversion of exceptions to obligations and further!
“Ibn Abbas said:
“al-Taqiyya is with the tongue only; he who has been COERCED into
saying that which angers Allah (SWT), and his heart is comfortable
(i.e., his TRUE faith has NOT been shaken.), then (saying that which
he has been coerced to say) will NOT harm him (at all); (because) al-
Taqiyya is with the tongue only, (NOT the heart).” ”
Where is it mentioned? I think al-Taqiyya of Shias is no more with tongue rather it has probably filled their whole hearts and minds!
“The two words “tat-taqooh” and “tooqatan,” as mentioned in the Arabic
Quran, are BOTH from the same root of “al-Taqiyya.””
Aha, again the same habit of playing the word and meaning game! Can’t say!
“In early days of Islam in Mecca when kuffar start killing Sahabah with ugliest torture…Prophet allow them to even denounce kalma and Shahadah of his prophethood as long as their hearts are not bent.”
Can’t say about its truthfulness and context but later this condition/order was changed i suppose! I think Shias are most of the time living in a special time like early days of Islam and in Makkah or Battle of Badr etc! This cruel world, especially Sunnies and not non-believers, have not allowed them to grow up to any further mental/physical/spiritual level!
“It has been narrated by Abd al-Razak, Ibn Sa’d, Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim,
Ibn Mardawayh, al-Bayhaqi in his book “al- Dala-il,” and it was corrected
by al-Hakim in his book “al- Mustadrak” that:”
Again old habit of mentioning the uncommon or weak books! I read something about this book
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Mustadrak_alaa_al-Sahihain
“The nonbelievers arrested `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) and (tortured him
until) he (RA) uttered foul words about the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and
praised their gods (idols); and when they released him (RA), he (RA)
went straight to the Prophet (PBUH&HF). The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said:
“Is there something on your mind?” `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) said: “Bad
(news)! They would not release me until I defamed you (PBUH&HF) and
praised their gods!” The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “How do you find
your heart to be?” `Ammar (RA) answered: “Comfortable with faith.” So
the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “Then if they come back for you, then do
the same thing all over again.” Allah (SWT) at that moment revealed
the verse: “….except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in
faith…[16:106]”
Very dangerous text and contents! Firstly, the referenced book is quite doubtful secondly the words used here seem to be very strange thirdly such text has not been mentioned in other authentic books fourthly the extent of even uttering foul words about the Prophet(SAW) (i.e. not restricting to uttering of disbelief) fifthly Prophet(SAW) asked him to do the same again and sixthly a complete verse has been attached to this hadith but still not mentioned in authentic books! It makes it extremely hard to believe that!
“Shakir 16:106] He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief– on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.”
It is mentioned about a certain condition and is not for all times. It also needs to be understood that it is for the condition where one is compelled/forced and is not able to resist or bear the opposition anymore, and not that one practices it in normal conditions and makes it habit or part of dealings or source of cheating others or to hide the truth/faith etc! There have been so many examples where people did not utter disbelief even in the hardest situations and one famous example is of Bilal(RA)!
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=16&tid=28249
and Allah(SWT) knows best.
To all those who oppose HZ, we as a Muslims all around the world are on brink of being wipe out from the face of earth, Any person who takes initiative to unite Muslims under one flag, we question what sect they belong to this is very strange. we have a massive earth quick and roof is going to fall on our head soon if we dont act now and in mean time any one who tries, we ask him what sect you are and some time mullah like we just had in you tube even attempt to invalidate the status of being Muslim.
if any one of us thinks Mulana Fazul-ur-rehman will save us or will take us out of the crises we as a ummah facing then forget it. we are not even ready to acknowledge the challenges.
Official press release by ZH.. Hop ppl will understand….
http://i44.tinypic.com/6ro4ud.jpg
May Allah knows best
@zaheer
The problem here is I am facing a hardcore paindoo.
It seems like he is communicating in English but hardly make cohesive words.
His utterance is like a Zombie making sounds and expecting listeners to make some sense out of it…..to many sounds he thinks will make him to many meanings…his contribution is venom
He is least interested in meaningful thoughtful debate…..its good enough for him that his posts carrying to many words shia with venom not necessary to make sense.
Now Paindoo
Do you know the meanings of “WORSHIP”
Don you know what are tenet of faith and how they derived in Islam.
First I am surprised what Taqiyya has to do with worship.
Any tenet of faith which has no Nas-e-Quran is not acceptable in true Islam shia or sunni.
Here you brought up another shia subject(taqiyya) only to make an ass of yourself.
I proved from Quran its perfectly Islamic faith but you did not or try not to understand instead you carried on with your sectarian shia venom with zero comprehension of what I wrote and zero cohesion of what you respond.
http://www.tanzeem.org/announcements/zaid%20hamid2.pdf
@jazoo
“The problem here is I am facing a hardcore paindoo.”
, to be hardcore or softcore paindoo is not at all bad i suppose!
“It seems like he is communicating in English but hardly make cohesive words.”
You better see a doctor or a “peer”!
aha, i did not know that you were in trouble otherwise i could have tried something else! It is also very much possible that your brain is not able to process correctly as there are always chances of curtain on hearts and minds!
“His utterance is like a Zombie making sounds and expecting listeners to make some sense out of it…..to many sounds he thinks will make him to many meanings…his contribution is venom”
haha, what a scene you have elaborated, seems a part of Hollywood movie! This is typical with my Shia fellows that they curse/abuse others day and night otherwise they can’t digest their food as they can’t eat halal things!
This is such a wonderful sect where Sahabah and Wives of Prophet are not spared and are cursed and these losers think that it is a source of worship!
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/ahlel-bayt/cursing-wives-and-sahabah
“He is least interested in meaningful thoughtful debate…..its good enough for him that his posts carrying to many words shia with venom not necessary to make sense.”
while only you and your tribe knows what is meaningful and what is thoughtful! Alas, had you been so intelligent you could not have taken the opposite direction to Islam! Where are you heading to Mr. Meaningful and Thoughtful?
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/tahreef/mushtaq
“Now Paindoo
Do you know the meanings of “WORSHIP”
Don you know what are tenet of faith and how they derived in Islam.”
Mr. Citizen, there can be so many meanings and of course a Shia meaning will be different than what Islam says as this sect has to take opposite of Islam! what does your sect say about worship? It will be something against Islam like one in above link.
“First I am surprised what Taqiyya has to do with worship.”
Of course telling lies and cheating is considered holy and as worship in your wonderful sect, just read link in one of my previous posts about Taqiyya!
“Any tenet of faith which has no Nas-e-Quran is not acceptable in true Islam shia or sunni.”
But Shias create “Nas” where there is not one! This is what they are good at and this is their compulsion too to safeguard their strange faiths!
“Here you brought up another shia subject(taqiyya) only to make an ass of yourself.”
I really wonder if Shais have anything like decency or shame! They inside are quite dirty and filthy although externally look good!
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/mutah/plea
“I proved from Quran its perfectly Islamic faith but you did not or try not to understand instead you carried on with your sectarian shia venom with zero comprehension of what I wrote and zero cohesion of what you respond.”
Oh yeh, you proved it quite well that shiaism is false way! It is good at least you have succeeded in understanding the “truth” and don’t worry about me! Don’t try to hide behind sectarianism etc. to protect false believes of your tribe! Again try to open your mind and see world by getting out of Shiaism cage!
@zaheer
Ignorance and bigotry is the worst disease.
May Allah have mercy on you
see the reply from zaid hamid and i stand with him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtH3HwPMBE
Zaid Zaman Hamid is finished and his game is OVER!
Pakistan proved it self to be a “traditional” society and tradition is set in stone by the molvi mafia….
I am not sure who is scared of Zaid Zaman Hamid……and not even sure if he was ever effective…at all…..
another person is Ghamidi who will soon be brought into this justice again by the same bakiyat of the molvis killed in karachi…
just watch……
The same game was played against Jahil on Line nqali doctor amir liya-kut….when he was cursing sahaba for 5 lakh rupees per majlis somewhere in karachi, there are videos online available already about this genius…
I wonder if this is going to be a “fitna” or will it be ignored by the society……….
Zaid Zaman Hamid might not have been successful in becoming the mard-e-kamil or prophet (mazzallah) of his time but he did “zinda kiya” his ex-peer…….Psychic Yousuf Ali mudai-e-nubuwat…..
this is his biggest achievement……..he “resurrected” his peer!
Mulla!
علامہ اقبال کی سازش
محمد حنیف | 2010-03-04 ،13:19
اگر آپ پاکستان کا کوئی پرائیویٹ ٹی وی چینل دیکھتے ہیں تو آپ زید حامد کے نام سے واقف ہوں گے۔ آج کل وہ پاکستان کو اقبال کا پاکستان بنانے میں مصروف ہیں۔
اس مقصد کے لیے انہیں فیشن ڈیزائنروں، پاپ گلوکاروں اور پرائیویٹ تعلیمی اداروں کے ممی ڈیڈی بچوں کی حمایت حاصل ہے۔ کبھی وہ غزوہ ہند کے نام سے ہمیں سبز رنگ کے ایف سولہ طیارہ اور کبھی ایستادہ غزنوی میزائل دکھا کر بھارت پر آخری فتح کی بشارت دیتے ہیں اور کبھی امریکہ کو اقبال کے شعروں اور ہماری قوت ایمانی سے ڈراتے ہیں۔ (شاید اسی خوف سے کئ امریکی ملٹی نیشنل کمپنیاں انکے پروگراموں کو اشتہار بھی دیتی ہیں)۔
اپنے مشن کی تکمیل کے لیے زید حامد کو کئی روپ بھرنے پڑتے ہیں۔ کبھی وہ لال ٹوپی پہن کر وسط ایشیائی مجاہد لگتے ہیں تو کبھی سوٹ بوٹ میں عالمی بینک کے نمائندے۔ آخری دفعہ میں نے انہیں دیکھا تو انہوں نے نارنجی رنگ کی فوجی ٹوپی اور فائٹر پائلٹوں والی جیکٹ پہنی ہوئے تھے۔ مجھے لگا کہ نیٹو کا کوئی بھگوڑا فوجی ہے۔
کبھی انہیں دیکھ کر یوں لگتا ہے کہ چہ گویرا نے اپنی جنس تبدیل کروانے کی کوشش کی ہے یا حافظ سعید نے کوئی ایسی گولی کھا لی ہے جو اس عمر میں انہیں نہیں کھانی چاہیے تھی۔ سچی بات تو یہ ہے کہ اگر زید حامد نہ ہوتے تو ٹی وی چینلوں کا کیا ہوتا؟ مولانا فضل الرحمان جتنی پگڑیاں بدل لیں، مولانا منور حسن جتنی بھی خوبصورت مسکراہٹیں بکھیر لیں، میوزک ویڈیو دیکھنے والی نسل کے لیے ان میں کوئی کشش نہیں۔ زید صاحب تو ہمارے میڈیا میں ایک ڈسکو مولوی کے خلا کو پر کر رہے ہیں۔
ویسے راقم کو یہ سمجھ نہیں آئی کہ وہ اس پاکستان کو اقبال کا اور کتنا پاکستان بنائیں گے۔ ہمیں پتہ نہیں اقبال کے خواب میں پاکستان کے خدوخال کیسے تھے لیکن ہمارے ارد گرد ان کی جن تعلیمات نے فروغ پایا ہے وہ تو علامہ نے کسی برے خواب میں بھی نہیں سوچا ہوگا۔ ہم اپنے ہر بچے کو سکول میں پڑھاتے ہیں تو شاہین ہے بسیرا کر پہاڑوں کی چٹانوں میں۔ تو ہمارے کئی بچے یہ سبق دہراتے دہراتے پہاڑوں پر جا بیٹھے ہیں اور کبھی کبھی اپنا خون گرم رکھنے کے لیے مسجدوں، بازاروں اور سکولوں کو بموں سے اڑاتے رہتے ہیں۔ انہیں منع کرتے ہوئے بھی ہم شرماتے ہیں کیونکہ ہم نے ہی تو انہیں پڑھایا تھا کہ شہادت ہے مطلوب و مقصود مومن۔
لیکن اس سارے قتل و غارت کی سول سوسائٹی ہمیشہ مذمت کرتی ہے۔ لیکن یہ سول سوسائٹی اس دہائی کی سب سے بڑی سازش ہے۔
@jazoo
“Ignorance and bigotry is the worst disease.”
Yes, it is a grave disease and you should find cure for it!
“May Allah have mercy on you”
Aameen.
@Mulla
You analysis seem to be very interesting and deep. Personally i think that Maulana Hazrat are very important to fight against fitnas and enemies but they must get sincere, united and a bit soft/friendly! Our Maulana Hazrat need to create friendship with people especially with young ones and should be open heartened and loving towards them, sometimes they become unnecessarily rigid and strict. One must not compromise on basics/principles but should adopt legal and required flexibility too!
What these molvis are made off. They are unable to understand the truth,; Zahid Hamid has many times told that he believes in Allah and Mohammad (SAW) bin Abdullah as last prophet. They are still not accepting it. It means they themselves are not good. They are just playing politics.
I am no fan of Z Hamid but justice demands that we must see and listen both the parties before forming the final openion.
Pl watch Zaid Hamid’s view on blame game.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtH3HwPMBE
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uEHUaX_w4Q&feature=related
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXcqXiM96oE&feature=related
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7owM_U3ySQ&NR=1
Impart justice because it is near to “TAQWA”(Alquran)
We know Zahid Hamid is a brave person and is challenging to mega power centres of this world. History tell us that such out spoken people are not tolerated to live long by these powers. Unfortunately some muslims are playing in the hands of our enemies. They are mentally blind and are unable to see bigger game at wider spectrum. They just want to see him as a ‘Kafir’. Declaring any one ‘Kafir’ is easy in Pakistan because of the nature of this law. But it is not possible in other muslim countries like Egypt, Saudi-Arabia and Indonacia. Reason being a strong law there where they also face death penalty if proved wrong. So at the moment it is all political gamics to gain more ground.
The allegation against zaid hamid are wrong, zaid hamid is doing wonderful job not only for country but our Religion also …
i heard both sides views , what i perceive is that Zaid Hamid is right, and these “Mullas” which did not meet Zaid Hamid till now are liar,
Zaid Hamid is our asset and we should protect him
@zaheer
You are more fanatic than Bin Ladin and more poisoned than Sipah-e-Sahabah and Lashkar-e-Jhangwi.
You are a bigot and hypocrite also when you say shia curse sahaba and wives of Prophet(saw).
There are poisoned shia fanatic…who are into sectarian stuff like yourself.
Though Quran is very critical of two wives of Prophet and call them with bent heart..they were advised to repent or Allah will give better wives to Prophet…This is not shia stuff.
In the verses of Ahzab Quran talk about some companion of Prophet and call them diseased heart because when they saw army of enemy in huge no. emerged and surrounded them..they say Allah and His Messenger put us to death today..they made a false promise of victory today(nauzubillah).
Now this is again not a shia Book.
So make no mistake cursing some sahabah(as deiseased heart) is the style of Quran and calling some wives (bent heart) its not exclusively shia thing.
You can come up with all the babble now that shia are very smart they can find everything in Quran so and so.
But unfortunately it will not help whatever is in Quran can not be deleted.
@jazoo
“You are more fanatic than Bin Ladin and more poisoned than Sipah-e-Sahabah and Lashkar-e-Jhangwi.”
ah, a great remark by a great person! By the way, how much fanatic are those people and groups you have mentioned? Although Shia try to show as if they are savior of Muslims against attacks of west etc, which is an utter deception, but at the same time they try to use west’s propaganda to malign others! They are simply opportunists without any principles who can do anything to come into power! One famous example is that they have taken control of Iraq by joining hands with invaders!
I don’t support harm to innocents belonging to any religion, sect or group but at the same time Shais need to think what are those factors which lead to creation of groups like Sipah-e-Sahabah and Lashkar-e-Jhangwi etc? It is because of strange faith and practices of your tribe that created such groups! So try to look into yourself before pointing fingers at others! You people incite others through your dirty talks and acts and then mourn and do self beating if others teach you a lesson!
“You are a bigot and hypocrite also when you say shia curse sahaba and wives of Prophet(saw).”
Your fatwas or fatwas of your “holy” scholars can’t make anyone “bigot and hypocrite”. What is your authority at the end?
“There are poisoned shia fanatic…who are into sectarian stuff like yourself.”
I think all those who are aware of real faith, philosophy and practices of Shiaism are natural fanatic! Actually this sect is so much contrary to Islam that one either needs to leave this sect to be a normal Muslim or he/she will have to fight against Muslims!
“Though Quran is very critical of two wives of Prophet and call them with bent heart..they were advised to repent or Allah will give better wives to Prophet…This is not shia stuff.”
So your wonderful scholars have found something interesting in this context! It would be most probably once more something out of context and word play! By the way, are your so called scholars whole day playing the word games with each other, have got no other work to do? Tell me the Surah and Ayahs!
“In the verses of Ahzab Quran talk about some companion of Prophet and call them diseased heart because when they saw army of enemy in huge no. emerged and surrounded them..they say Allah and His Messenger put us to death today..they made a false promise of victory today(nauzubillah).”
Of course, hypocrites always have been part of Islam till today even at the time of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) so nothing surprising or new! In addition to that even the strongest in faith could be shaken for sometime which is natural for a human being! This in anyway does not mean that we start cursing companions especially before our meals or using it to prove one better over others! Give me exact Ayah number!
“Now this is again not a shia Book.”
But it could be something out of context or word play or …
“So make no mistake cursing some sahabah(as deiseased heart) is the style of Quran and calling some wives (bent heart) its not exclusively shia thing.”
First of all we don’t know who those Sahaba were exactly! Secondly, as i said earlier we don’t have right to curse anyone except those who have been cursed openly with names by Allah and His Messenger(SAW) or Muslims were also asked to curse them! Where are the orders to curse anyone? What does mean bent heartened and which Wives were those? Does it mean that one can curse anyone of them?
“You can come up with all the babble now that shia are very smart they can find everything in Quran so and so.”
They are not smart, i never said that, don’t try to make self claims like your tribe does! This is however true that they are most of the time searching for out of context things and word games to safeguard their anti-Islam philosophies, this is their compulsion!
“But unfortunately it will not help whatever is in Quran can not be deleted.”
Of course no one can dare to delete something from Quran nor it is possible anymore! But people have been playing with meanings, contexts and explanations of Quran like your wonderful tribe does, which needs to do all that for the sake of its existence and survival!!!
I am not a die hard fan of Zahid Hamid but I am uanable to find any thing wrong with him. He is explaining things with logic. And we know how much our judicial system was independent at that time. What happened to Zulfiqar Ali. Blasphemy law in Pakistan is very loose any way. One can blame any one in Pakistan as NON-MUSLIM and then get away with it. In other muslim countries like SAudia or Egypt if you wrongly blam any one as non-muslim then you also face death penalty. But in Pakistan this law is being used to finish your rivals easily and cleanly.
WELL, PROPHET JESUS (PBUH) NEVER CLAIMED TO BE A SON OF GOD.
BUT STILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT HE IS SON OF GOD.
KASAB NEVER CLAIMED HE IS PROPHET BUT STILL PEOPLE BELIVE THAT HE DID. WITH OUT ANY PROOF.
IF SOME ONE HAS PROOF OF YOUSAM CLAIMING THAT I AM “PROPHET” PROVIDE IT.
OR ELSE LEAVE SURFING ON INTERNET AND WATCH CARTOONS ON TV.
DON’T YOU PEOPLE RESEARCH BEFORE BELIEVING IN SUCH NONSENSE.
I agree with you 100%
@ Zaheer
What ever Quraan says about companion and wifes of Muhammad (SAW), we dont have to discuss about it, perhaps we may not cross the limit unknowingly. Pl refrain.
Imam and Last of all Prophets, the Most Beloved of Allah(SWT), Guidance for whole mankind and jinn, Mercy for the worlds: Muhammad(SAW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbO8rY9t9JA
PEOPLE WATCH THIS
OFFICIAL STATEMENT MADE BY ZAID HAMID ON MEDIA.
http://alqamar.info/2010/2010/03/21/zaid-hamid-and-islamic-scholars.html
@zaheer
“ah, a great remark by a great person! By the way, how much fanatic are those people and groups you have mentioned?”
I am glad you make this statement…This is like you are giving in.
How much fanatic is Bin Ladin…ask yourself.
You don’t find him fanatic but when it comes to Tahirul Qadri you can write pages of lengthy essay against him…You may be wahabi or whatever you are a hardcore sectarian.
Do not deceive yourself and readers…its not only shia…its any sect other than wahabi you are against them.
I detect this wahabi element in you when you use word “Worship” out of context and now you are questioning how much your wahabi fella Bin Ladin is fanatic.
@omair76
what the hell r u insane or just trying to defend zaid hamid to such a extent that u want to prove that yusaaf kazab never ever claimed to be prophet.
this blog has some very good stuff to know the reality of yousaf kazab
http://zaidhamidexposition.wordpress.com/
@jazoo
“I am glad you make this statement…This is like you are giving in.”
You can infer whatever your great mind tells you to live in the world of dreams and deceptions!
“How much fanatic is Bin Ladin…ask yourself.”
I have not made any specific image of him because i don’t have enough facts to decide about him! He is a doubtful and hidden personality.
“You don’t find him fanatic but when it comes to Tahirul Qadri you can write pages of lengthy essay against him…You may be wahabi or whatever you are a hardcore sectarian.”
It is your conclusion but in reality i did not say whether he is fanatic or not! Well, in recent days i have been trying to know Tahirul Qadri and he seems to be a “great personality” too. I don’t want to write any essay about “your person” great MR. Tahirul Qadri! Wahabi, haha hoho! This is another famous trick of Shias that anyone who resists/reveals their anti-Islamic teachings and ways is labeled as Wahabi! By calling anyone “hardcore sectarian” you can’t safeguard sectarianism and wrongdoings of your tribe! Actually Shia fellows blame others for what they do themselves!
“Do not deceive yourself and readers…its not only shia…its any sect other than wahabi you are against them.”
, frankly speaking i don’t believe in any sect because there is no concept of sects in Islam, these were Shais who first created sect to weaken and divide Islam, and for your information i don’t like Wahabis either as i think Shias and Wahabis both have heavily damaged Islam! There was no sect of Prophet Muhammad(saw) and his companions, they were just Muslims!
It is good that at least you are not deceived and you are taking the “right” path, again thanks for advice and don’t worry about me!
“I detect this wahabi element in you when you use word “Worship” out of context and now you are questioning how much your wahabi fella Bin Ladin is fanatic.”
So you are a detective, cool! Then try to find a job of detective somewhere and leave your sect, it would be much better for you! Defining things out of context, no one can do this work better than Shia fellows as this is the only thing they can do good!
@zaheer
There are many first discords in Islam starting within in the life of Prophet Mohammad(saw). Because Prophet was still alive things cool down and remain as differences.
After the demise of Prophet first discord was when Ali claim his rights to Khilafah on the same basis khilafa was not given to Ansaaar but then things cool down and Ali kept silent for the unity of Ummah.
The real discord started when Usman(ra) issued first NRO in Islam and allow Marwan in Madina whom Prophet had expelled from Madina.
Usman(ra) not only allow Marwan in Madina but gave him key position in his regime and made him top consultant.
Ali used to give advices to all three khalifa most of his advices were taken by Umar(ra) and usually were binding and implemented.
Mostly when Usman(ra) seeks Ali(as) advice…Ali tells on face that you will not follow you will do what Marwan tells you to do.
This inclusion of Marwan in Islamic khilafah is the reason Islam was hijacked by Banu Ummaya….Corrupt people like Mauwia were made katib-e-wahi and given khilafa of Islamic state which reins in for the succeeding 90 years including the dark period of Yazid.
These 90 years are the period when every bad thing happened to Islam.
First thing Banu ummaya did was the revenge of their ancestors killed by the hands of Ali.
If you know pre Islamic history of Jahiliya you would learn how this streak of revenge goes down the lines of descendants….There was no any family of Kuffar and Ummayah whose member was not killed by the hands of Ali during Ghazwaht.
Khawarij were also born in these dark 90 years.
I always avoid discussing history with you because its easy for you to call it bogus or out of context.
Due to your narrow mindedness I try to stick with Quran so you could not say its shia propaganda but unfortunately I don’t have enough water to cool down your ignorant sectarian esteem.
@jazoo
“There are many first discords in Islam starting within in the life of Prophet Mohammad(saw). Because Prophet was still alive things cool down and remain as differences.”
Yes, differences were there among Sahaba also and it is natural part of life but they did not make sects/tribes nor they asked anyone to do so! They remained firm on Islam and they cleared their differences in nice way.
“After the demise of Prophet first discord was when Ali claim his rights to Khilafah on the same basis khilafa was not given to Ansaaar but then things cool down and Ali kept silent for the unity of Ummah.”
So this is the start of imagination trip of Shias that Ali claimed the Caliphate! Where is it mentioned? Actually this is what Shias have forged themselves! They say that Ali(RA) did Taqiyyah although he was against the decision! It is interesting that only Shias could know what actually Ali(RA) was thinking/feeling as Shia scholars were there looking into heart of Ali(RA). Even if we suppose that there was some dispute or disagreement over Caliphate issue, the Sahaba did not ask for creation of sects rather they solved their disagreements in nice way!
“The real discord started when Usman(ra) issued first NRO in Islam and allow Marwan in Madina whom Prophet had expelled from Madina.”
There can be many interpretations of the history! What actually happened and why, is nor easy to judge with confusing and diverse facts! Was Marwan expelled, why, for how much time, why was he recalled etc are difficult to answer.
“Usman(ra) not only allow Marwan in Madina but gave him key position in his regime and made him top consultant.”
There would be some wisdom behind that decision, according to realities on ground and his decision might be need of time! and what you are describing here could be another fairy tale like many others of Shai fellows as their sect is alive mainly upon fairy tales.
“Ali used to give advices to all three khalifa most of his advices were taken by Umar(ra) and usually were binding and implemented.”
Might be true as Ali(RA) was a very wise and pious person and all first four Caliphs had great understanding and cooperation with one another.
“Mostly when Usman(ra) seeks Ali(as) advice…Ali tells on face that you will not follow you will do what Marwan tells you to do.”
Aha so this is something that has been mentioned in your books but it could be forgery too! It is possible that at some occasion they disagreed but it can not be forever or in every case! Possibility of Usman(RA) being influenced by Marwan is there but how much was he it is difficult to judge!
“This inclusion of Marwan in Islamic khilafah is the reason Islam was hijacked by Banu Ummaya….Corrupt people like Mauwia were made katib-e-wahi and given khilafa of Islamic state which reins in for the succeeding 90 years including the dark period of Yazid.”
How have you concluded that? What are the proofs for that hijacking? What was the truth and what really happened, can’t be fully judged!
“These 90 years are the period when every bad thing happened to Islam.
First thing Banu ummaya did was the revenge of their ancestors killed by the hands of Ali.”
This seems pure exaggeration, forgery and lie to say that every bad thing happened in that period! Possibility of good and bad decisions is always there but to say every bad thing happened in that period does not make sense! Here you have started typical way of playing with historical facts in one’s own favor!
“If you know pre Islamic history of Jahiliya you would learn how this streak of revenge goes down the lines of descendants….There was no any family of Kuffar and Ummayah whose member was not killed by the hands of Ali during Ghazwaht.”
Of course there were many bad habits in pre-Islamic period but it does not mean that it continued in the same way! Well, possibility of taking revenge is there but it can’t be used to prove everything or it can’t be the only factor of happenings!
“Khawarij were also born in these dark 90 years.”
Many people were born in those times including Shias and it continued later!
“I always avoid discussing history with you because its easy for you to call it bogus or out of context.”
I personally avoid disputing over history because everyone presents and interprets it in different way. This is the same history which different sects use to prove each other right and wrong! and don’t believe in sects!
“Due to your narrow mindedness I try to stick with Quran so you could not say its shia propaganda but unfortunately I don’t have enough water to cool down your ignorant sectarian esteem.”
Thanks for your appreciation Mr. Broadminded! Yes stick to Quran and Sunnah that is the best way and avoid propaganda please. Who created sectarianism? These were Shia fellows i suppose!
@Zaheer
This time be a gentleman and don’t call it shia propaganda.
I am quoting Sahih Bukhari…You better check the reference before calling it shia propaganda.
Companions choosing the Caliph amongst themselves distinguishes the fact the Holy Prophet did not select Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a) for the position of “Amir Al Mu’mineen”.
The Ansars/Helpers claimed that the leadership should be given to them due to their service for the sake of islam.
Similarly, the Migrants claimed that they were the most deserving of the leadership.
Different groups were advancing arguments on their own behalf at the Saqifah.
But at last Abu Bakr was chosen but election of Abu Bakr was so unexpected, hasty and careless that ‘Umar(ra) remarked later:
“It was an accident that Abu Bakr became leader. No consultation or exchange of views took place. If anyone in future invites you to do the same again, kill him.”
Ibn Hisham, al-Sirah, Vol. IV, p.308.
See also Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.817
The choice of Abu Bakr (r.a) was not pleasing to all, Hazrat Umar said that Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, and Ansar disagreed with them:
“..And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa’da. ‘Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr…”
( Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.817)
The seed of disunity was sown and was ready to grow into the wild tree whose fruit caused nothing but pain and destruction to the ummah of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) as the Holy Quran predicts:
“Obey God and the Messenger, and never be drawn into dispute and disagreement, lest you be defeated and your power be scattered to the winds.” (8:49)
Hazrat Abu Bakr was right when he correctly observed the following:
“The swearing of allegiance to me was a mistake; may God protect us from its evil consequences. I myself am fearful of the harm it may cause.” -> Ibn Abi ‘l-Hadid, Sharh, Vol. I, p.132.
@jazoo
“This time be a gentleman and don’t call it shia propaganda.”
I will be gentleman only if it will not be a Shia propaganda!
“I am quoting Sahih Bukhari…You better check the reference before calling it shia propaganda.”
I will check but it would be most probably out of context and given Shia color!
“Companions choosing the Caliph amongst themselves distinguishes the fact the Holy Prophet did not select Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a) for the position of “Amir Al Mu’mineen”.”
I think Prophet Muhammad(SAW) did not explicitly mention that Abu Bakr(RA) be the first Caliph! WAllah-o-Aalm.
“The Ansars/Helpers claimed that the leadership should be given to them due to their service for the sake of islam.”
They had right to give their opinion as they were part of community but a decision needs be made after mutual consultation and thorough reflection.
“Similarly, the Migrants claimed that they were the most deserving of the leadership.”
They had their views and points!
“Different groups were advancing arguments on their own behalf at the Saqifah.”
Through consultation and argumentation matters are solved.
“But at last Abu Bakr was chosen but election of Abu Bakr was so unexpected, hasty and careless that ‘Umar(ra) remarked later:”
It might had been unexpected for many and was hasty too because of circumstances but i don’t think it was careless or wrong decision!
“It was an accident that Abu Bakr became leader. No consultation or exchange of views took place. If anyone in future invites you to do the same again, kill him.”
One can call any action as accident but i don’t think it was any accident rather it was need of the time, was done with understanding and proved to be as right decision late on!
“Ibn Hisham, al-Sirah, Vol. IV, p.308.
See also Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.817″
Can’t say much about first book but have read the Hadith of Bukhari and it shows that it was a difficult decision but was decided rightly at the end!
“The choice of Abu Bakr (r.a) was not pleasing to all, Hazrat Umar said that Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, and Ansar disagreed with them:”
They were arguing and had different views; it was natural thing, some agreed others did not! But later majority of them agreed to the decision! But Shias got an excuse to create a new sect and divide Muslims as if they were waiting for some excuse!
“..And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa’da. ‘Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr…”
( Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.817)
I have read the Hadith and it shows that it was a tough time but final decision was quite right.
“The seed of disunity was sown and was ready to grow into the wild tree whose fruit caused nothing but pain and destruction to the ummah of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) as the Holy Quran predicts:”
I think what happened was a natural thing but some mischievous people tried to create divide and when they failed in that they they tried to give many different colors to the happening and they are doing it till today! This trap of conflict and divide was destroyed by the understanding, wisdom and unity of Muslims especially of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali at that time! However, Shias wrongly created a sect as if they were looking for an excuse to grow a wild tree of disunity and destruction of Ummah!
“Obey God and the Messenger, and never be drawn into dispute and disagreement, lest you be defeated and your power be scattered to the winds.” (8:49)
8:49 means
“When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts was a disease (of disbelief) said: “These people (Muslims) are deceived by their religion.” But whoever puts his trust in Allah, then surely, Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.”
Have you made a mistake in giving reference?
Anyhow, these were the Shias who created the divisions among Ummah and are doing till today! They need to correct themselves!
“Hazrat Abu Bakr was right when he correctly observed the following:
“The swearing of allegiance to me was a mistake; may God protect us from its evil consequences. I myself am fearful of the harm it may cause.” -> Ibn Abi ‘l-Hadid, Sharh, Vol. I, p.132.”
It is not an authentic book of Hadith! It is rather a Shia book and forgery which can’t be trusted!
@Zaheer
Now I will not quote Quran or hadith because you may call it shia propaganda.
Lets talk about philosophy of shia and sunni.
First thing sunnis are equally responsible for division of ummah.
Almost all the sunni Imams and sunni hadith collectors are persian or non Arabic on the contrary all the shia Imams are Arabic and from the family of Prophet.
So if there was a conspiracy then it had to be an outside conspiracy.
I don’t agree that sunni Imams or hadith collectors were part of conspiracy or division.
Conspirators were power hungry oppressors banu ummayah and Bani Abbas who ruled for hundreds of years after khilafah of Imam Ali.
The very first Madrasa or Islamic university was opened by 5th Shia Imam Mohammad Baqar(as) which reached to its peak during era of Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq(as) when its strength becomes 4000 students at one time which is huge if you compare the total population of that time and ratio of illiterate population.
All the sunni Imams including Imam Abu Hanifa either were pupil of Imam Jafar in that University or pupil of his pupil.
And none of them were conspirators or dividers…Imam Abu Hanif said if I had not my two precious years under tutelage of Imam Jafar I would have been perished.
The word sunni and word shia are easy to say but difficult to follow.
Sunni means one who try to follow Prophet’s sunna which if accomplished is real Islam.
The word shia means one who follow and love Ali…it again is derived from Ali’s absolute dedication to Prophet’s sunna.
Ali was given first chance to become third khalifah on the conditions that he will follow sunna of Prophet and sunna of Sheikain…Ali refused to follow sunna of sheikain so Uthman(ra) was chosen third khalifa who pledged to follow sunna of sheikain which he broke immediately by calling Mrawan to Madiona who all the two khalifa refused to allow in Madina.
So in the beginning it was clear that sunna of Prophet is not followed in its true essence and those who believe Ali is the truer carrier of Prophetic sunna were called Shian-e-Ali.
Announcement of Ali as Mawla of momins by Prophet under divine command caused a great discomfort in companions.
Now you may blame Allah was the cause of division of ummah.
@jazoo
“Now I will not quote Quran or hadith because you may call it shia propaganda.”
How a thing could be proven from Quran and Hadith which is not mentioned there?
cause in that area your sect can’t be defended!
“Lets talk about philosophy of shia and sunni.”
anyhow no problem let us take it forward…
So now want to turn to philosophy! You seem to keep me engaged and are waiting for some mistake to blackmail me!
“First thing sunnis are equally responsible for division of ummah.”
No! I think major part was played by Shias cause they first created a group and rest were left with no choice except to take a way. There might be some mistake of Sunnies too but major role for division was played by Shias!
For example if there is one litre of water and someone takes few millilitres out of it then rest is no more a litre! Rest of the Muslims, after Shias created their group, were left with one out of two choices: either they call themselves Muslims and in that case Shias would have been labeled as infidels or they give themselves a new name and they decided to being called Sunnies i think!
“Almost all the sunni Imams and sunni hadith collectors are persian or non Arabic on the contrary all the shia Imams are Arabic and from the family of Prophet.”
Well i can’t say about that! I think that Shias from very first day hijacked the Ahlebayt and they played with their innocence and sincerity! Not only that they have been using their names and association till today for the vested interests and anti-Islam activities! All these people were pure Muslims but Shias have given them different labels and proved them as Shias which they were not!
“So if there was a conspiracy then it had to be an outside conspiracy.”
There is possibility of external conspiracy!
“I don’t agree that sunni Imams or hadith collectors were part of conspiracy or division.”
Then you people need to follow Sunni Imams and Hadith collectors why have you created your own hadith books which are either copies/modifications of original Ahadith or are forgeries?
“Conspirators were power hungry oppressors banu ummayah and Bani Abbas who ruled for hundreds of years after khilafah of Imam Ali.”
I can’t say about it that who was responsible for what! There are many different possibilities! There can be fault of others too but Shias were those who always misused the family members of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) because later were very innocent and fair people!
“The very first Madrasa or Islamic university was opened by 5th Shia Imam Mohammad Baqar(as) which reached to its peak during era of Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq(as) when its strength becomes 4000 students at one time which is huge if you compare the total population of that time and ratio of illiterate population.”
As i told the family members and inheritors of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) were no Shias and were strong Muslims! You people have either falsely given them different belongings and identities or played with their innocence!
“All the sunni Imams including Imam Abu Hanifa either were pupil of Imam Jafar in that University or pupil of his pupil.”
It might be true but in any case Imam Abu Hanifa did not follow Shia direction! What was the reason for that?
“And none of them were conspirators or dividers…Imam Abu Hanif said if I had not my two precious years under tutelage of Imam Jafar I would have been perished.”
Where did he mention that and what was context of it?
“The word sunni and word shia are easy to say but difficult to follow.”
It applies to all systems! I personally don’t believe in sects, i believe in Islam only.
“Sunni means one who try to follow Prophet’s sunna which if accomplished is real Islam.”
I think they are closest to the real Islam.
“The word shia means one who follow and love Ali…it again is derived from Ali’s absolute dedication to Prophet’s sunna.”
Actually every Muslim loves Ali but what Shia do mean from his love and obedience is very tricky and strange! Shias have affiliated and connected so many things which were not even said or done by Ali(RA). In reality Ali and his sons only followed Islam and not Shiaism etc!
“Ali was given first chance to become third khalifah on the conditions that he will follow sunna of Prophet and sunna of Sheikain…”
I am not aware of that condition! Where is it mentioned, will be somewhere in Shia books.
“Ali refused to follow sunna of sheikain so Uthman(ra) was chosen third khalifa who pledged to follow sunna of sheikain which he broke immediately by calling Mrawan to Madiona who all the two khalifa refused to allow in Madina.”
Again what is the reference? Whether Uthman(RA) did anything wrong is very difficult to judge!
“So in the beginning it was clear that sunna of Prophet is not followed in its true essence and those who believe Ali is the truer carrier of Prophetic sunna were called Shian-e-Ali.”
Ah what a great thing has been discovered by you people! I think all of them, especially first four caliphs, followed Quran and Hadith and what was derived out of it. They might have difference of opinions though which is natural.
“Announcement of Ali as Mawla of momins by Prophet under divine command caused a great discomfort in companions.”
Reference and context please?
“Now you may blame Allah was the cause of division of ummah.”
Allah(SWT) is not blamed for anything! Divisions were created by Satan and mischievers within Muslims and externals!
And Allah(SWT) knows best.
@zaheer
Theres alot of poison in you about term shia without knowing what it stands for.
Shia adhere to Prophet’s sunna that makes them different from sunni.
You may call it coincidence but it happened miraculously that in His very first speech Prophet announced Ali is his successor and then His last speech at Hajtul wida he also announced Ali as His successor. Now those who believe in this consistent preaching of Prophet are true sunni(shia) or true follower of His sunna.
Narrated Ibn Humayed, from Salamah, from Muhammad Ibn Is’haq, from Abd al-
Ghaffar Ibn al-Qasim, from al-Minhal Ibn Amr, from abdallah Ibn al-Harith
Ibn Nawfal Ibn al-Harith Ibn Abd al-Muttalib, from Abdallah Ibn Abbas, from
Ali Ibn Abi Talib:
When the verse “And warn your close tribe (Quran 26:214)” was revealed
to the prophet, he called me and said to me, “Ali, God has commanded
me to warn my tribe of near kindred. I was troubled by this, since I
knew that when I discuss the matter to them they would respond in a
way which I would not like. I kept silent until Gabriel came to me and
said “If you do not do what you are commanded, your Lord will punish
you.” So prepare a measure of wheat for us, add a leg of lamb to it,
fill a large bowl of milk for us, and then invite sons of Abd al-
Muttalib for me so that I may speak to them what I have been commanded
to tell them.”
I did what he had told me to do. At that time they numbered forty men
more or less, including his uncles Abu Talib, Hamzah, al-Abbas, and
Abu Lahab. When they had gathered together, he called me to bring the
food which I had prepared. I brought it, and when I put it down,
prophet took a piece of meat, broke it with his teeth, put it in the
dish. Then he said, “Take in the name of God.” They ate until they
could eat no more, and yet the food was as it had been. I swear by
God, in whose hand Ali’s soul rests, that a single man could have
eaten the amount of food which I prepared for them. Then he said “Give
them something to drink.” So I brought them the bowl and they drank
from it until they became full, and I swear by God that one man could
have drunk that amount. When prophet wanted to speak to them, Abu
Lahab interrupted him and said “Your host has long since bewitched
you.” Then they dispersed without the prophet speaking to them.
On the following day he said to me “Ali, this man interrupted what I
wanted to say so that people dispersed before I could speak to them.
Prepare the same food for us as you did yesterday, and invite them
here.” I did this, and brought them food when he called me. He did as
he had done the other day, and they ate until they could eat no more.
Then he said, “Bring the bowl,” and they drank until they could drink
no more.
Then he spoke to them, saying, “Banu Abd al-Muttalib, I don’t know of
any young man among Arabs who has brought for his people something
better than what I have brought to you. I bring the best of this world
and the world after, since God has commanded me to summon you to him.
Which of you will aid me in this matter, so that he will be my
brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor (Caliph) among you?” They
all held back, and even though I was the youngest, I said “I will be
your helper, O’ prophet of God.” He put his hand on the back of my
neck and said “This is my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor
(Caliph) among you, so listen to him and obey him.” They rose up
laughing and saying to Abu Talib, “He has commanded you to obey your
son and to obey him!”
References
1) History of al-Tabari, English version, v6, pp 88-91
(2) History of Ibn Athir, v2, p62
(3) History of Ibn Asakir, v1, p85
(4) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v5, p97
(5) Tafsir al-Khazin, by Ala’uddin al-Shafi’i, v3, p371
(6) Shawahid al-Tanzil, by al-Hasakani, v1, p371
(7) Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, p15, pp 100-117
(8) al-Sirah al-Halabiyah, v1, p311
(9) Dala’il al-Nabawiyyah, by al-Baihaqi, v1, pp 428-430
(10) al-Mukhtasar, by Abul Fida, v1, pp 116-117
(11) Life of Muhammad, by Hasan Haykal, p104 (First Arabic Edition only. In
the second edition the last sentence of Prophet is deleted.)
(12) Tahdhib al-Athar, v4, pp 62-63.
After returning from hajtul wida The Messenger of Allah made a lengthy speech, following is the excerpt from his full speech:
“It seems the time approached when I
shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am
leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them,
you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my
progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each
other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise).”
Then the Messenger of Allah continued:
“Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?” People cried and answered: “Yes, O’ Messenger of God.” Then Prophet (PBUH) held up the
hand of Ali and said:
“Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O’ God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him.”
References
(1) Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63
(2) Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43
(3) Khasa’is, by al-Nisa’i, pp 4,21
(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p129, v3, pp 109-110,116,371
(5) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,118,119,152,330, v4, pp 281,368,370,
372,378, v5, pp 35,347,358,361,366,419 (from 40 chains of narrators)
(6) Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, pp 563,572
(7) Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p103 (from several transmitters)
(8) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50
(9) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v3, p19
(10) Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, pp 169,173
(11) al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v3, p213, v5, p208
(12) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn Athir, v4, p114
(13) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v2, pp 307-308
(14) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part 3, p144
(15) Sawaiq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, p26
(16) al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v2, p509; v1, part1, p319,
v2, part1, p57, v3, part1, p29, v4, part 1, pp 14,16,143
(17) Tabarani, who narrated from companions such as Ibn Umar, Malik Ibn
al-Hawirath, Habashi Ibn Junadah, Jari, Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqas,
Anas Ibn Malik, Ibn Abbas, Amarah,Buraydah,…
(18) Tarikh, by al-Khatib Baghdadi, v8, p290
(19) Hilyatul Awliya’, by al-Hafiz Abu Nu’aym, v4, p23, v5, pp26-27
(20) al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, Chapter of word “ayn” (Ali), v2, p462
(21) Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, pp 154,397
(22) al-Mirqat, v5, p568
(23) al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p172
(24) Dhaka’ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p68
(25) Faydh al-Qadir, by al-Manawi, v6, p217
(26) Yanabi’ al-Mawaddah, by al-Qudoozi al-Hanafi, p297
On the day of Ghadir the Messenger of Allah summoned the people toward Ali and said:
“Ali is the MAWLA of whom I am MAWLA.
” The news spread quickly all over urban and rural areas. When Harith Ibn Nu’man al-
Fahri (or Nadhr Ibn Harith according to another tradition) came to know of it, he rode his camel and came to Medina and went to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) and said to him:
“You commanded us to testify that there is no deity but Allah and that you are the
Messenger of Allah. We obeyed you.
You ordered us to perform the prayers five times a day and we obeyed.
You ordered us to observe fasts during the month of Ramadhan and we obeyed.
Then you commanded us to offer pilgrimage to Mecca and we obeyed.
But you are not satisfied with all this and you raised your cousin by your hand and imposed him upon us as our master by saying `Ali is the MAWLA of whom I am MAWLA.’
Is this imposition from Allah or from You?”
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said : “By Allah who is the only deity! This is from Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious.”
On hearing this Harith turned back and proceeded towards his she-camel
saying:
“O Allah! If what Muhammad said is correct then fling on us a
stone from the sky and subject us to severe pain and torture.”
He had not reached his she-camel when Allah, who is above all defects
flung at him a stone which struck him on his head, penetrated his body
and passed out through his lower body and left him dead. It was on
this occasion that Allah, the exalted, caused to descend the following
verses:
“A questioner questioned about the punishment to fall. For the
disbelievers there is nothing to avert it, from Allah the Lord of
the Ascent.” (70:1-3)
references:
(1) Tafsir al-Tha’labi, by Is’haq al-Tha’labi, commentary of verse 70:1-3
from two chain of narrators.
(2) Noor al-Absar, by Shablanji, p4
(3) al-Fusool al-Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki al-Makki, p25
(4) al-Sirah al-Halabiyah, by Noor al-Din al-Halabi, v2, p214
(5) Arjah al-Matalib
(6) Nazhat al-Mujalis from al-Qurtubi
@jazoo
“Theres alot of poison in you about term shia without knowing what it stands for.”
I don’t see much positive in Shia either in term or sect or in its followers. It is serving the purpose of confusions and divisions of Muslims and that is what was plan of its manufacturers!
“Shia adhere to Prophet’s sunna that makes them different from sunni.”
No! they do opposite! They adopt almost everything different to Islam starting from Kalimah, Adhan, Wudu, Salah and so on! and also they have created their own books of Hadith and they have their own tenets of faith and even doubt Quran! By the way what thing you follow from Islam?
“You may call it coincidence but it happened miraculously that in His very first speech Prophet announced Ali is his successor and then His last speech at Hajtul wida he also announced Ali as His successor.”
It is very strange that we don’t get that information from any most authentic books of Hadith! In his first speech not many people were present but in his last address there were thousands and still it is not mentioned in authentic books of hadith anything in this context! Prophet(SAW) praised his Sahaba especially first four and why will they then go against the will of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) if he had explicitly declared his will? It seems another forgery and fairy tale of Shia fellows!
“Now those who believe in this consistent preaching of Prophet are true sunni(shia) or true follower of His sunna.”
This does not seem to be anything consistent otherwise first four Caliphs definitely had followed it! Actually you people need some conflicts or excuses to sustain your sect and beliefs, it is your compulsion. Which Sunnah do you people follow i mean which books?
You have narrated two “ahadith” and so many references! I can’t go through and check those books so can’t say what exactly is written there, what is the context and what is authenticity of those books! Well most of them are not among authentic books! In second hadith, if it really is hadith, are you talking about speech of Prophet(SAW) at Hajja-tul-Wida or after it? Where was it delivered? Again so many references! It seems you just wanted to pressurize, busy and impress me through so many references! Well i have similar thoughts about them as i have for the first set of references!
@jazoo
” On the day of Ghadir the Messenger of Allah summoned the people toward Ali and said:
“Ali is the MAWLA of whom I am MAWLA.” The news spread quickly all over urban and rural areas. When Harith Ibn Nu’man al-Fahri (or Nadhr Ibn Harith according to another tradition) came to know of it, he rode his camel….”
Once more such an important aspect and hadith is missing from the main books of Ahadith although even an Ayah from Quraan has been attached to this event! Companions of Prophet(SAW) were so God conscious then how could they disobey such an order and even one person is believed to have been punished for disobeying it? Had they disobeyed such an order they could have also been punished for that! Now you may bring another theory that their punishment was delayed but theories could be endless!
“references:…”
Not really trustful and strong one. No commentary from any big scholar of Islam about it, only Amazon is giving description…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir_al-Thalabi
@zaheer
Actually this discussion is happening because you started shia bashing.
I am not sectarian and against any sect specially sunni.
We ought to be strong and united because enemy is much stronger than your imaginations.
Faisal Raza Abdi is shia who never get tired of calling Zardari “My leader”…I am also shia but theres a big difference…You can not measure all shias with single yardstick thats SLANDER.
Because you asked again…I will not bring another theory…I will post some history not about who was being punished and who was not…but who was reminded and how.
About the Battle of Camel, al-Hakim and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal and others
recorded that:
We were in the camp of Ali on the day of Battle of Camel, where Ali
sent for Talha to talk to him (before the beginning of war). Talha
came forward, and Ali told him: I adjure you by Allah! Didn’t you hear
the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) when he said: `Whoever I am his
MAWLA, this Ali is his MAWLA. O God, love whoever loves him, and be
hostile to whoever is hostile to him’?” Talha replied: “Yes.” Ali
said: “Then why do you want to fight me?”
reference:
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 169,371
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, on the authority of Ilyas al-Dhabbi
- Muruj al-Dhahab, by al-Mas’udi, v4, p321
- Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p107
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal recorded in his Musnad that:
Abu Tufayl narrated that He (Ali) gathered the people in the plain of
Rahbah (on year 35 AH) and adjured in the name of Allah every Muslim
male present there who had heard the proclamation of al-Ghadir from
the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) to stand up and testify what they had
heard from the Messenger on the Day of Ghadir. Thereupon thirty (30)
men stood up and gave evidence that the Prophet grasped Ali’s hand and
said to the audience: “He (Ali) has superior authority over those who
believe me to have superiority over their lives. O Allah! Love him who
loves him and hate him who hates him.” Abu Tufayl says that it was in
a state of great mental agitation that he left the plain of Rahbah,
for the Muslim masses had not complied with the tradition. He
therefore called on Zaid Ibn Arqam and told him what he heard from
Ali. Zaid told him not to entertain any doubt about it for he himself
had heard the Messenger of Allah uttering those words.
reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p370
also:
Abd al-Rahman Ibn Abu Laylah said: I witnessed Ali administering an
oath to the people in the plain of Rahbah. Ali said: “I adjure those
of you in the name of Allah who heard the Messenger of Allah on the
day of Ghadir saying `Ali is the Mawla of whom I am Mawla’ to stand
up and to testify. He who was not an eyewitness doesn’t need to stand
up.” Thereupon twelve (12) such companions who had participated in
the Battle of Badr stood up. The occasion is still fresh in my memory.
references:
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p119, see also v5, p366
- Khasa’is, by al-Nisa’i, pp 21,103, narrated similar to above on the
authority of three others: Umayah Ibn Sa’d, Zaid Ibn yathigh, and
Sa’id Ibn Wahab.
Now something about who was being punished.
It is also recorded that:
When Ali said to Anas: “Why don’t you stand up and testify what you
heard from the Messenger of Allah on the day of Ghadir?” He answered,
“O Amir al-Mumineen! I have grown old and do not remember.” Thereupon
Ali said: “May Allah mark you with a white spot (of leprosy; Alphosis)
unconcealable with your turban, if you are intentionally withholding
the truth.” And before Anas got up from his place he bore a large
white spot on his face, Thereafter Anas used to say, “I am under the
curse of the righteous servant of Allah.”
references:
(1) al-Ma’arif, by Ibn Qutaybah, p14, in the account of Anas among disabled
persons.
(2) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p199, where he testifies to the above
anecdote, as he says : “All stood up except three persons who came
under the curse of Ali.”
(3) Hilyatul Awliya’, by Abu Nu’aym, v5, p27
After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked every body to give the oath
of allegiance to Ali (AS) and congratulate him. Among those who gave him
the oath were Umar(ra), Abu Bakr(ra), and Uthman(ra).
It is narrated that Umar(ra) and Abu Bakr(ra) said:
“Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the leader (Mawla) of all
believing men and women.”
Sunni references:
(1) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p281
(2) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50
(3) Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Khatib al-Tabrizi, p557
(4) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part3, p144
(5) Kitabul Wilayah, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari
(6) al-Musannaf, by Ibn Abi Shaybah
(7) al-Musnad, by Abu Ya’ala
(8) Hadith al-Wilayah, by Ahmad Ibn `Uqdah
(9) Tarikh, by Khatib al-Baghdadi, v8, pp 290,596 from Abu Hurayra
… and more.
@jazoo
“Actually this discussion is happening because you started shia bashing.”
It is not bashing it has been a constructive discussion, people should know what shia fellows believe and do.
“I am not sectarian and against any sect specially sunni.”
You are sectarian otherwise you could not have been shia!
“We ought to be strong and united because enemy is much stronger than your imaginations.”
Well in the name of unity one can’t allow shias to create further divide and damage among Muslims. You people are one of the main source of divisions and confusions among Muslims.
“Faisal Raza Abdi is shia who never get tired of calling Zardari “My leader”…I am also shia but theres a big difference…You can not measure all shias with single yardstick thats SLANDER.”
This is no measure to judge anyone. If you or any other shia does not like Zardari or someone else, still it does not mean that you/he are/is right! I am just discussing the shia philosophy and their acts than any particular individual.
“Because you asked again…I will not bring another theory…I will post some history not about who was being punished and who was not…but who was reminded and how.”
This history trick you people use so often to prove your wrongs as right!
“About the Battle of Camel, al-Hakim and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal and others
recorded that:
………………..
”
Well this has been mentioned in the those books that are not that strong if it really is there. Secondly here question arises what Prophet Muhammad(SAW) meant from it if he mentioned the word “Mawla”? Thirdly why is it not mentioned in any strong books? Fourthly, Prophet Muhammad(SAW) was almost sure that he is performing the last Hajj and he got indications of his death but still why did he not explicitly mention the name of Ali(RA) as his successor?
Well, one can infer many things from it and shia infer that Ali was denied his right for which they just bring shallow stories, assumptions and weak references!
@jazoo
“Now something about who was being punished.”
Stories and more stories and mainly shia oriented references! It is strange that shia fellows don’t even follow the main books of hadith and mainly take refuge in not that authentic and strong books! Why is it so?
“After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked every body to give the oath
of allegiance to Ali (AS) and congratulate him. Among those who gave him
the oath were Umar(ra), Abu Bakr(ra), and Uthman(ra).
It is narrated that Umar(ra) and Abu Bakr(ra) said:
“Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the leader (Mawla) of all
believing men and women.”
You better live in your references because that is the only refuge for you people! So here you want to prove that later on first three Caliphs retreated from their stance! Why did they do so? They were extremely pious and Allah fearing people though! Actually these are mental creations of shias that they think that first three caliphs did not give right to Ali but in reality all four were very cooperating and caring towards one another! You people just need some points to sustain your strange believes and anti-Islam acts i suppose!
“Sunni references:
…..
”
Don’t have access to those books so can’t say what is written and in which context! and don’t play “reference reference” game with me like shias often do! Bring something from most authentic books and Tafsirs!
@zaheer
I don’t know what you will believe if a reference from Masnad of Hanbal is shia propaganda then what is your stand….wheres your platform…do you have any stand anywhere except poisoned with firqa wariyat.
When I quote Quran you call it shia propaganda when I quote hadith you call it not authentic enough.
Where you learn your Islam from some hardcore sixth grade failed sectarian mulla.
I am sure if I quote Bukhari you would not be in good mental health
@zaheer
Why blame shias…what I am quoting here is immediately after Prophet…sect is nothing Muslims were blood thirsty for each other.
Islam is a straight path which has no room for wriggle here and there even for a short while.
This incident of camel was not sponsored by shias but your beloved sahabah Talha and Zubair and led by Ayesha(ra).
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.336
Narrated Abdullah:
The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: “Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here,” saying three times, “and from where the side of the Satan’s head comes out.”
Muslim has also related in his Sahih from Ikrima Ibn Ammar from Salim from Ibn Umar who said:
“The Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) emerged from the house of Aisha and said. ‘The pivot of disbelief is from here, where the horns of Satan will rise.’”
reference: Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, the Chapter of Seditions, v4, p2229
Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 9.220
Narrated Abu Maryam Abdullah bin Ziyad al-Aasadi:
When Talha, al-Zubair and Aisha moved to Basra, Ali sent Ammar bin Yasir and al-Hasan bin Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. al-Hasan bin Ali was at the top of the pulpit and Ammar was below al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard Ammar saying, “Aisha has moved to al-Basra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her (Aisha).”
This Hadith indicates that obedience to her is disobedience to Allah, and to oppose and disobey her is to obey Allah.
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said to his wives: “I wonder which one of you will be the instigator of the Camel Affair, at whom the dogs of Haw’ab will bark, and she will be the one who has deviated from the straight path. As to you Humayra (i.e., Aisha), I have warned you in that regard.”
references:
History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p120
al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah
@zaheer
You ask some interesting question about “Mawla”
As per Quran Prophet has more rights on believers Nafs then themselves.
Allah is the Master and Owner of every creature and Allah has bestowed these ownership rights to Prophet Mohammad(saw) over believers i.e. those who believe in rights of Allah over them.
In this tradition Prophet said
“Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?” People cried and answered: “Yes, O’ Messenger of God.” Then Prophet (PBUH) held up the
hand of Ali and said:
“Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O’ God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him.”
So now Zaheer if you were in that era and first three Khalifa ask you to jump…you had all the rights to ask them why but if Ali asked you to jump…no question ask you had to jump…This is the meanings of “Mawla” and this is the straight path.
@jazoo
“I don’t know what you will believe if a reference from Masnad of Hanbal is shia propaganda then what is your stand….wheres your platform…do you have any stand anywhere except poisoned with firqa wariyat.”
If references are authentic and within true context then it is fine! You people are habitual of playing around with ahadith books as it is the only way to prove wrongs as truth! Just have a look.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musnad_Ahmad_ibn_Hanbal
“When I quote Quran you call it shia propaganda when I quote hadith you call it not authentic enough.”
You quote out of context from Quran and Ahadith you people quote are in most cases either weak or out of context! I have said time and again there is no place of sects in Islam but you people created one and you have to sustain it somehow through tricks and games!
“Where you learn your Islam from some hardcore sixth grade failed sectarian mulla.”
That definition of mulla fits exactly to Shia scholars!
“I am sure if I quote Bukhari you would not be in good mental health”
If it will be in real context then is fine!
@jazoo
“Why blame shias…what I am quoting here is immediately after Prophet…sect is nothing Muslims were blood thirsty for each other.”
Shias have to take blame for their doings, they are initiators and not innocent! Muslims might be blood thirsty but it does not mean that Shias were/are right or innocents!
“Islam is a straight path which has no room for wriggle here and there even for a short while.”
That is true but your tribe have crated so many wriggles that world and especially Muslims are in a lot of confusions and trouble! I don’t say people of other sects are angels; others also have done damage to Islam.
“This incident of camel was not sponsored by shias but your beloved sahabah Talha and Zubair and led by Ayesha(ra).”
And this is your trip of forgeries, allegations and propaganda! I think this incident of camel was sponsored by Shias/miscreants and neither by Ali(RA) nor by Ayesha(RA)!
“Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.336
Narrated Abdullah:
The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: “Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here,” saying three times, “and from where the side of the Satan’s head comes out.” ”
With additional words this hadith is as follows
Narrated `Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a
sermon, and pointing to `Aisha’s house (i.e. eastwards), he
said thrice, “Affliction (will appear from) here,” and, “from
where the side of the Satan’s head comes out (i.e. from the
East).
So what you people have inferred from it is that he was pointing to Ayesha(RA) and that is how one can play with words and meanings in his/her own way! This is what your so called scholars whole day do looking for words to play around with meanings and contexts! Even if one supposes that he pointed towards her house and not towards east then what exactly did he mean?
From above hadith and other ahadith mentioned at other places it is evident that he was pointing towards “East” and not her house and that in fact was house of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) himself too! Prophet(SAW) could have told clearly and why would he use hidden way? You people again might bring your famous magic “Taqiyya” to justify it! Below I give further references that explain the real context!
“Muslim has also related in his Sahih from Ikrima Ibn Ammar from Salim from Ibn Umar who said:
“The Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) emerged from the house of Aisha and said. ‘The pivot of disbelief is from here, where the horns of Satan will rise.’”
reference: Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, the Chapter of Seditions, v4, p2229”
Below are the references which define and clarify the context of the hadith!
Muslim Bk 1, Number 0083:
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Mas’ud that the Apostle
of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) pointed towards
Yemen with his hand and said: Verily Iman is towards this
side, and harshness and callousness of the hearts is found
amongst the rude owners of the camels who drive them behind
their tails (to the direction) where emerge the two horns of
Satan, they are the tribes of Rabi’a and Mudar.
Muslim Bk 41, Number 6938:
Ibn ‘Umar reported that he heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace
be upon him) as saying (in a state) that he had turned his
face towards the east: Behold, turmoil would appear from this
side, from where the horns of Satan would appear.
Muslim Bk 41, Number 6939:
Ibn ‘Umar reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon
him) stood by the door (of the apartment of) Hafsa and,
pointing towards the east, he said: The turmoil would appear
from this side, viz. where the horns of Satan would appear,
and he uttered these words twice or thrice and Ubaidullah b.
Sa’ld in his narration said. The Messenger of Allah (may peace
be upon him) had been standing by the door of ‘A’isha.
Muslim Bk 41, Number 6943:
Ibn Fudail reported on the authority of his father that he
heard Salim b. ‘Abdullah b. ‘Umar as saying: O people of Iraq,
how strange it is that you ask about the minor sins but commit
major sins? I heard from my father ‘Abdullah b. ‘Umar,
narrating that he heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon
him) as saying while pointing his hand towards the east:
Verily. the turmoil would come from this side, from where
appear the horns of Satan and you would strike the necks of
one another; and Moses killed a person from among the people
of Pharaoh unintentionally and Allah, the Exalted and
Glorious, said:” You killed a person but We relieved you from
the grief and tried you with (many a) trial” (xx. 40). Ahmad
b. Umar reported this hadith from Salim, but he did not make a
mention of the words:” I heard”.
Further related Ahadith
Muslim Bk 41, Number 6940, Bk 41, Number 6941, Bk 4, Number 1275, Bk 4 Number 1807
And in Bukhari it also has been mentioned which you and your tribe intentionally missed I suppose!
Bukhari 2.147:
Narrated Ibn `Umar: (The Prophet) said, “O Allah! Bless our
Sham and our Yemen.” People said, “Our Najd as well.” The
Prophet again said, “O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen.” They
said again, “Our Najd as well.” On that the Prophet said,
“There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there
will come out the side of the head of Satan.”
Bukhari 4.499:
Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar: I saw Allah’s Apostle pointing
towards the east saying, “Lo! Afflictions will verily emerge
hence; afflictions will verily emerge hence where the (side of
the head of) Satan appears.”
Bukhari 5.672:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “Belief is Yemenite
while afflictions appear from there (the east) from where the
side of the head of Satan will appear.”
Bukhari 9.213:
Narrated Ibn `Umar: I heard Allah’s Apostle while he was
facing the East, saying, “Verily! Afflictions are there, from
where the side of the head of Satan comes out.” 9.214:
Narrated Ibn `Umar: The Prophet said, “O Allah! Bestow Your
blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our
Yemen.” The People said, “And also on our Najd.” He said, “O
Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah!
Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen.” The people said, “O
Allah’s Apostle! And also on our Najd.” I think the third time
the Prophet said, “There (in Najd) is the place of earthquakes
and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head
of Satan.”
More references
Bukhari 4.702, 4.714, 9.212
And you go further….
“ Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 9.220
Narrated Abu Maryam Abdullah bin Ziyad al-Aasadi:
When Talha, al-Zubair and Aisha moved to Basra, Ali sent Ammar bin Yasir and al-Hasan bin Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. al-Hasan bin Ali was at the top of the pulpit and Ammar was below al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard Ammar saying, “Aisha has moved to al-Basra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her (Aisha).”
This Hadith indicates that obedience to her is disobedience to Allah, and to oppose and disobey her is to obey Allah.”
This event has been mentioned at another place in Bukhari!
Bukhari 5.116:
Narrated Abu Wail: When `Ali sent `Ammar and Al−Hasan to (the
people of) Kufa to urge them to fight, `Ammar addressed them
saying, “I know that she (i.e. `Aisha) is the wife of the
Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter (world to come),
but Allah has put you to test, whether you will follow Him
(i.e. Allah) or her.”
Further refernces
Bukhari 9.221, 9.222
There are few points
1: This is not saying of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) rather is opinion of a companion!
2: Muslims were divided in this war so they were of different opinions and don’t forget that so many Sahaba were supporting Ayesha(RA) too!
3: Ammar(RA) was of the opinion that Ali(RA) is right and Ayesha(RA) is on the wrong but it does not mean that it is the ultimate reality or truth! As I said there were confusions and also miscreants who created divisions and fights among Muslims.
4: Anyone could commit mistake including Ayesha or Ali!
5: This opinion of a Sahabi does not mean that what Ayesha said or did was always wrong and her words or Ahadith were wrong!
6: One can’t stretch this particular event to prove everything right or wrong like your wonderful tribe does!
“The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said to his wives: “I wonder which one of you will be the instigator of the Camel Affair, at whom the dogs of Haw’ab will bark, and she will be the one who has deviated from the straight path. As to you Humayra (i.e., Aisha), I have warned you in that regard.”
references:…”
And you don’t refrain referring from weak books and also forged Shia texts! Brains of you and your tribe are so narrow and close that you people can’t see in broader and real contexts, actually it is not your fault you people have been brainwashed and have been living in this narrow world since your childhoods! But do one thing! Kindly don’t try to brainwash and confuse innocent people!
@jazoo
“You ask some interesting question about “Mawla””
I know who may Mawla is and He is Allah(SWT)!
It is of more interest to you than me
“As per Quran Prophet has more rights on believers Nafs then themselves.”
Exact Ayah please.
“Allah is the Master and Owner of every creature and Allah has bestowed these ownership rights to Prophet Mohammad(saw) over believers i.e. those who believe in rights of Allah over them.”
Allah(SWT) did not give unlimited or ultimate ownership to anyone! He gave authority to Prophet(SAW) in defined, clear and described way.
“In this tradition Prophet said
“Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?” People cried and answered: “Yes, O’ Messenger of God.” Then Prophet (PBUH) held up the
hand of Ali and said:
“Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O’ God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him.” ”
First of all this tradition is not found in any authentic books of Ahadith, secondly even if one supposes that it is true then what was the real context and message in it! As i said that Allah(SWT) gave defined and controlled authority even to Prophet(SAW) then what about others?
Anyhow this seems to me another forgery and self creation of Shias who have build their building on lies and forgeries.
“So now Zaheer if you were in that era and first three Khalifa ask you to jump…you had all the rights to ask them why but if Ali asked you to jump…no question ask you had to jump…This is the meanings of “Mawla” and this is the straight path.”
If i was there in that period i had followed all four of them as they were on right path! I had also not followed the Shias who are and were miscreants!
and now you (jazoo) take a right direction, open your eyes, leave your sect and become only Muslim that is the straight path!!!
@zaheer
You posted a bundle of ahadith mentioning how and where head of Satan will appear.
First you did not focus on Bukhari the most authentic …you quote Muslim the second authentic…If I had done the same you will call it quoting the weak ahadith as propaganda…so you don’t stick to your own principles…for you its about the winning the argument..no matter if you rot in hell but you must win an argument in this world.
Now I am re quoting Bukhari you quote so you could not say its shia propaganda even though its Bukhari.
“With additional words this hadith is as follows
Narrated `Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a
sermon, and pointing to `Aisha’s house (i.e. eastwards), he
said thrice, “Affliction (will appear from) here,” and, “from
where the side of the Satan’s head comes out (i.e. from the
East).”
Prophet(saw) said fitna will appear from HERE and (from “WHERE” part you can draw as many meanings as you like).
Please don’t call it shia playing with words because you are an insult to human intelligence.
Hadith you quote is evident that Prophet mentioning two places from where fitna will appear one is right where he is standing or emerging i.e. Ayesha’s house and other place is separated with the word “AND” which means there are two places.
Besides Bukhari did not put this hadith in the chapter of fitna..Bukhari has put the tradition related to Aisha in a section named: “what went on in the houses of the wives of the Prophet”.
Then you come up with another funni notion
You wrote
“From above hadith and other ahadith mentioned at other places it is evident that he was pointing towards “East” and not her house and that in fact was house of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) himself too! Prophet(SAW) could have told clearly and why would he use hidden way? You people again might bring your famous magic ”
You are complaining why Prophet had not mentioned name of Ayesha explicitly…you are ok with another riddle Prophet had given in same hadith about east not giving the exact name of the city and tribe…..so one part of hadith riddle absolve Ayesha because Prophet should be open about what he says…in the same hadith other riddle is ok….Now who is playing with words.
@zaheer
You wrote about Hadith of Mawla
“First of all this tradition is not found in any authentic books of Ahadith,”
I don’t know whats authentic…we learn Siha Sitah are authentic books unfortunately Sahi Tirmizi is one of the siha sittah book….You least care to put a check on what you write.
No need to write too many words of nonsense write few words eloquently with real substance.
@jazoo
“You posted a bundle of ahadith mentioning how and where head of Satan will appear.”
and there was mentioned the real context of the hadith that you tried to use in your way! You wanted to tell as if he was pointing towards house of Ayesha(RA) but it was not the case.
“First you did not focus on Bukhari the most authentic …you quote Muslim the second authentic…”
I just quoted from Muslim first and it is not must to quote from Bukhari first or all the time! I have been quoting from Bukhari too. Your problem has been that you mostly go for non-authentic books.
“If I had done the same you will call it quoting the weak ahadith as propaganda…”
No! i would not but i would be pointing out if you are quoting out of context or weak ahadith or forgeries or from Shia books.
“so you don’t stick to your own principles…”
A typical Shia propaganda and trick that they try to prove others are contradicting and are against their own thoughts! They think as if they are the real truth and all intellect! I was not going against my principles if i quoted from Muslim more or first in that particular reply! Is it necessary to quote always first from Bukhari or only from Bukhari? Your problem is that you and your tribe stays most of the time away from Bukhari and Muslim because there you people can’t defend your lies and cheatings!
“for you its about the winning the argument..no matter if you rot in hell but you must win an argument in this world.”
No it is not about winning, i try to stay fair and just and i also accept if i make mistake or don’t know anything! I am not like Shias who bring even lies and forgeries to prove their wrongs as right! No body knows who will rot in hell; only Allah(SWT) knows that!
“Now I am re quoting Bukhari you quote so you could not say its shia propaganda even though its Bukhari.”
OK!
“With additional words this hadith is as follows
Narrated `Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a
sermon, and pointing to `Aisha’s house (i.e. eastwards), he
said thrice, “Affliction (will appear from) here,” and, “from
where the side of the Satan’s head comes out (i.e. from the
East).”
“Prophet(saw) said fitna will appear from HERE and (from “WHERE” part you can draw as many meanings as you like).
Please don’t call it shia playing with words because you are an insult to human intelligence.”
It is Shia propaganda of course and play of words! Again if you would use your little brain it will be clear that Prophet(SAW) was pointing towards east and not her house! Just go through the ahadith i mentioned in last post but you just want to live in your limited and false context! If you will move out of your little room you will see the reality and light but you are afraid of light i suppose!
“Hadith you quote is evident that Prophet mentioning two places from where fitna will appear one is right where he is standing or emerging i.e. Ayesha’s house and other place is separated with the word “AND” which means there are two places.”
Once more you are playing with words and you did not read the other related ahadith from Bukhari i mentioned above and in few there is no word “and” used! Look in Bukhari 9.213 for example.
“Narrated Ibn `Umar: I heard Allah’s Apostle while he was
facing the East, saying, “Verily! Afflictions are there, from
where the side of the head of Satan comes out.” ”
Where is word “and”? Actually it is not your fault! I say again you need to come out of your small world and read my last post with open mind! By the way use of word “and” does not necessarily means two places it can be used to tell two things about one place or side too i.e. east; this is what is evident from other ahadith. e.g. one can say that “that is Lahore and there is the Badshahi Masjid”! or “here is car and that is new” etc.
“Besides Bukhari did not put this hadith in the chapter of fitna..Bukhari has put the tradition related to Aisha in a section named: “what went on in the houses of the wives of the Prophet”.”
The book number and name of the chapter for hadith number “4.336″ is
Bk. 53: One−fifth of Booty to the Cause of Allah (Khumus).
and beside that this has been mentioned in different chapters in Bukhari; just read references given above and their chapters names!
“Then you come up with another funni notion”
This is style of you and your tribe that they try to describe thoughts of others as funny and useless just to prove themselves as correct and right! You people are such a wonderful loosers
“You are complaining why Prophet had not mentioned name of Ayesha explicitly…you are ok with another riddle Prophet had given in same hadith about east not giving the exact name of the city and tribe…..so one part of hadith riddle absolve Ayesha because Prophet should be open about what he says…in the same hadith other riddle is ok….Now who is playing with words.”
You are playing again! To solve your riddle i gave many ahadith which mention the real context and side and none of them tells the name of Ayesha(RA) explicitly but names of cities and east has been explicitly mentioned; which shows that he did not mention Ayesha’s house.
And Allah(SWT) knows best.
@jazoo
“You wrote about Hadith of Mawla
“First of all this tradition is not found in any authentic books of Ahadith,”
I don’t know whats authentic…”
E.g. Bukhari or Muslim.
“we learn Siha Sitah are authentic books unfortunately Sahi Tirmizi is one of the siha sittah book….”
Yes it is one of six books but problem of you and your tribe is that you mostly stay away from Bukhari and Muslim and also try to use weak ahadith from other Sahih books!
http://tinyurl.com/3327etm
“You least care to put a check on what you write.”
I try my best to care but you expect that i accept all what you say blindly like most of people do! that i can’t do.
“No need to write too many words of nonsense write few words eloquently with real substance.”
I will again say, try to come out of your shia mentality and look into reality with open mind and eyes. Try to be sensible and open minded! Best Wishes.
@zaheer
Prophet(saw) mentioned many ahadith on different topics….one topic does not mean all ahadith have the same context.
Fitna will appear on may places in many forms…it does not mean theres a single emergence of fitna with a singular context.
The hadith in Bukhari is explicit and secluded in its essence….your quoting many ahadith on the topic of fitna does not mean all incidence are of single convergence and Bukhari hadith should not be taken in its very context.
Bukhari hadith must be taken with its context and must not be confused with other mentioning of fitnas.
Its miracle of Allah that Prophet of Allah never lied(nauzubillah)….if he were not true Prophet of Allah His predictions would never comes true.
History also testified to this hadith of Bikhari that a fitna emerge in the form of Jaml lead by this very wife of Prophet who is subject of this hadith.
Your quoting too many ahadith on fitna is a lame effort to confused the issue but it will not help because evidences are overwhelming that she was the cause of great fitna in early Islam.
Why you are looking for word “and” in a different hadith….I referred the same hadith you quote.
The original hadith of Bukhari is as follows
“Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.336
Narrated Abdullah:
The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: “Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here,” saying three times, “and from where the side of the Satan’s head comes out.”
Then you quoted not the real hadith but a version of hadith as follows
“OK!
“With additional words this hadith is as follows
Narrated `Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a
sermon, and pointing to `Aisha’s house (i.e. eastwards), he
said thrice, “Affliction (will appear from) here,” and, “from
where the side of the Satan’s head comes out (i.e. from the
East).””
A bracket with (i.e. eastwards) is not the part of original hadith that is simply a cover up.
hiding the truth will make you more miserable.
@jazoo
I think enough has been discussed and talked here, so let us stop as things have started to repeat and give others chance to read and analyse our insights and views.
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