The intelligence agencies under command of Pakistan Army have scored a new achievement after kidnapping 11 acquitted civilian prisoners from Adiala jail recently. Although kidnappings and enforced disappearances of Pakistani civilians has been a usual business for Army, but this recent incident has brought the criminal activities of Pakistani Army to a new height where even civilian jails are not enough to stop the kidnappings, and where Army Chief would not be able to give his usual excuse that these civilians were never picked up by his men and they probably went for Jihad in Afghanistan.
The kidnapping took place after plea of families of 11 prisoners in the Court, followed by judicial order to release the prisoners who were acquitted from charges against attack on ISI and other defence personnel several months ago. The Supreme Court, which was itself kidnapped and locked by Pakistani Army just three years ago, took an unusual bold stance and called the intelligence chiefs to respond on their latest activity.
The response from agencies was submitted through Attorney General and mentioned two main points:
- The civilian prisoners are not in our custody
- We are above the law and Supreme Court has no right to ask us about the abductions
The Punjab Interior Secretary also responded in the Supreme Court and told that the 11 prisoners were taken away by ISI.
The case continues in Supreme Court and a result similar to thousands of missing persons is expected where hardly any missing person will be released alive and families of these people will continue protesting on Constitutional Avenue in extreme weather conditions and looking towards Parliament and Supreme Court for Justice. Although families of missing persons did not get any result despite protesting for several years on the Constitutional Avenue, they know that it is still much better to protest in civilian areas, as they don’t risk their children getting arrested without their trousers, which happens when you try to protest near HQ of the armed monster.
Now the question is that how this monster be controlled and brought under law of the state and constitution on which each member takes oath with name of God for obedience?
- What must be done by Judiciary to control this?
- What must be done by Government/Executive?
- What should be the role of parliament?
- What should be the role of media?
- What can be done by common man?
- What should be long term strategy to bring all institutions under the rule of law?
Unprecedented and dangerous move by the Jurnails:
“Neither can we be made party, nor can we have prisoners: spy chiefs”
ISLAMABAD: The intelligence agencies on Wednesday informed the Supreme Court that 11 missing prisoners of the Adiala Jail were not in their custody.
Attorney General Moulvi Anwarul Haq submitted a reply in the Supreme Court’s Registrar office on behalf of chiefs of the intelligence agencies, stating that 11 missing prisoners of the Adiala Jail were not in the custody of these agencies.
In their reply, the heads of intelligence agencies also stated that they or the intelligence agencies could not be made respondents in the constitutional petitions. They said the petitions filed by the legal heirs of the missing prisoners or other missing persons were not maintainable. The Supreme Court will hear the case of these missing prisoners today (Thursday).
Earlier, on Nov 12, a three-member Supreme Court bench, headed by Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, issued notices to the heads of secret agencies, seeking explanation over 11 missing prisoners of the Adiala Jail, allegedly abducted by the intelligence agencies. The notices were issued to the heads of ISI, MI and IB.
Attorney General Moulvi Anwarul Haq apprised the court that he had approached the concerned authorities but they denied having any information about the whereabouts of the missing prisoners.
He also informed the court that some concerned officials of the secret agencies wanted to meet the chief justice in his chamber to share some information on the issue. However, the court had rejected it, directing him to meet them and inform the court about the information.
The court had said it was not appropriate for the judges to meet them in chambers and observed that everyone should respect the court and avoid disharmony. The prisoners who went missing from the Adiala Jail after the Lahore High Court (LHC) had ordered their release were Dr Niaz Ahmed, Mazharul Haq, Shafiqur Rehman, Muhammad Aamir, Abdul Majid, Abdul Basit, Abdul Saboor, Shafique Ahmed, Said Arab, Gul Roze and Tehseenullah.
These prisoners were acquitted by the Anti-Terrorism Court in April this year in four different cases, including firing rocket at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, firing rocket at the plane of former President Pervez Musharraf, suicide attack on the bus of personnel of an intelligence agency in Rawalpindi and the suicide attack on the main entrance of the military headquarters.
Even after acquittal, these prisoners were detained in the jail by the Punjab Home Department. Later, the LHC set aside their detention orders, directing their immediate release and after their alleged disappearance/abduction by the secret agencies, the LHC ordered registration of a criminal case against the Adiala Jail Superintendent Saeedullah and Deputy Superintendent Khalid Bashir.
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I have heard Agencies are regulating beyond the Law,thats why they aint be liable to be present before Judiciary??Are their any loop holes in Laws or our Parliament needs to amend/implement any law to bring the activities of Agencies into canopy of Law and constitution??
Agnecies are asos part of this state,their role should be more active,better and professional.However all political wings of agencies and their nefarious activities should be BANNED once for all in order to revive their respect in the hearts and minds of every Pakistani.Otherwise this bridge of mistrust between Military establishment agencies and ordinary Pakistanis will get widen very fast which is NOT good omen for the stability of our state.
- What must be done by Judiciary to control this?
Judiciary is at least showing them red alerts when Agencies try to trespass the limit,its just beginning but its laudable as well because Judiciary shows the resolve to at least warn them.But Still Judiciary has long way to go to assert its genuine authority over such state of affairs?
- What must be done by Government/Executive?
Parliamentary committees should be formed to oversight the activities of Agencies and they may be questioned in case they trespass the limits.Secondly Democracy needs to keep on operating in Pakistan,which in long run will automatically control Agencies more efficiently.
- What should be the role of parliament?
The constitution should be amended to introduce provisions to supervise the activities of agencies as well as make the answerable before the parliament. Their Budgets should also be scrutinized even in off camera session but they should at least be made subservient to state laws.
- What should be the role of media?
There are many anchors and Journalists who are also targeted by these agencies,Umar cheema is latest addition.Media should expose but we should remember that there are many Journalists on their pay roll like Kamran Khan,Geo TV,etc.Media can highlight the corruption cases of Politicians take the example of Hajj scam but they wont highlight the billiob dollar corruption scandal in which Generals were involved..;Have we seen an extensive coverage??Answer is NO!
- What can be done by common man?
He or she can get educated on his basic rights and laws so that he knows his rights in this country,most of us are unaware of laws which protect us.Furthermore common man and social society can join or support Human rights related NGOS and organisations to project their views on such matters.
- What should be long term strategy to bring all institutions under the rule of law?
. Let the democracy run and improve.Only strong democratic system and strong democratic institutions can control such challenges better.
.Educate and aware people about their basic rights and Laws which protect them.
. Agencies has lions share in the affairs of state and it wont be EASY at all to convince them to adhere to their basic duties;but if our Military Establishment also realizes the importance of democratic Pakistan,then they also need to close all political wings of Agencies and our COAS should also give a transparent mechanism of functioning of agencies.
Remarks:These agencies are backbone of state but if they get involved in dirty games and people turned against them due to their nefarious activities,its alarming for our state.its high time for Military Establishment to realize the urgency of matter and make our agencies more professional and vibrant.
اس بدمست ہاتھی کو کوئی اسوقت تک کنٹرول نہیں کر سکتا جب تک اس کے پاس بھی اتنی طاقت ہو جتنی فوج کے پاس ہے. یہ کام جوڈیشری یا حکومت کے بس کی بات نہیں ہے. یہ ایسے ہی ہے جیسے کوئی کہے کہ پاکستان امریکہ کو آنکھیں کیسے دکھا سکتا ہے؟ صاف ظاہر ہے کہ اسکا جواب یہی ہے کہ جب تک پاکستان کے پاس ایسا میزائل نہیں ہوگا جو اسکا ایٹم بم امریکہ تک لے جائے اسوقت تک پاکستان امریکہ کو آنکھیں نہیں دکھا سکتا. یہاں باقی سارے کومنٹس چوہوں کی گول میز کانفرنس میں ہونے والی تقاریر ہی ہونگی جو بلی کے گلے میں گھنٹی باندھنے کے منصوبے ڈسکس کر رہے تھے
Long time back I read an anecdote, although I don’t remember it exactly but it is said that , there was a lion cub who lost his parents, and a mother sheep took him with her. The lion grew up playing with goats and sheep and considered them his brothers, sisters. When he was complete lion , one day a fox saw him playing with the sheep. Fox was surprised and started monitoring the lion. Soon fox understood the situation and went to lion and told him that he should not play with those sheep instead he should eat them as he is the king of jungle and these sheep are his prey. But lion could not be convinced.
One day Fox took the lion with him and showed him other lions and then took him to a river and showed him his image. Lion realized his power and for once roared like a lion and then first thing he did was to eat the fox and then went to his “brothers” and “sisters” and ate them too…
Moral of the story is that military in any country is a lion , and you can only tame this lion by keeping it with the “sheep” and “goats” (i.e. common men). However if once the military realizes its power , then ONLY solution is to completely get rid of such military , just like you have to kill a mad dog.
The Agencies are unruly, they are a state within the state. They think that they are the most patriotic people on God’s earth, they are master of deciding what is good and what is bad for the country. They were grossly misused by Musharaf-The traitor, these agencies are still in the same frame of mind. They are above law. The answer to control them lies in tow steps, 1. stable civil govt and 2. ISI headed by a civilian or a retired general. These agencies are solely responsible for the turmoil in KPK They kidnap people and kill them in the name of peace.
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1101106565&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20101126&sms_ss=google&at_xt=4cefd5b646fd1d12,0
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مھجے تو یہ ڈر لگ رھا ھے کہ عدالت کوہی سخت فصلہ نہ سنادے؛
آور ساتھ مھجے وہ بٹ صاحب بھی یاد آرھے ھيں جو رنٹ لنیے جاتے تھے
دیکھو زرداری کیسا صاب بن گیا
سوٹ اس کا دیکھو
انگریزی اس کی دیکھو
یہ تو پکا صاب بن گیا
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsVQgMgl_nM&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1l3JYxCWcs&feature=related
اس بدمست ہاتھی کو صرف حکومت ہی عوام کی بھرپور تائید کے ساتھ روک سکتی ہے مگر یہ حکومت بھی کیا کرے۔ ہائے ہائے یہ مجبوری۔ یہ کام عدلیہ کے بس کا نہیں ہے زیادہ سے زیادہ کوئی فیصلہ ہی دے سکتی ہے پر اس پہ عمل کون کرائے گا۔ رہ گئی یہ حکومت تو اسے ‘مفاہمت کی سیاست‘ کرنے، ایکسٹینشن دینے، آرمی چیف کے ساتھ فوٹوسیشن کرانے سے فرصت ملے تو ۔۔۔۔۔۔
فوج تو انڈیا کی بھی یہی تھی مگر وہاں کے سیاست دانوں کی ذہنی سطح شاید ہم سے بہت بلند تھی۔
Role of Common Man – jamm all the main roads and motorways and bring the entire country to a standstill until all are released and the culprits are thrown behind bars starting with the current BEGHAIRATH COAS.
if this piece of news is true, then it means Pakhtun and Balouch tribs were doing well in campaign of killing Army personnel whereever found. LEt the army tastes the fruit of being above the law. Roedaad Khan said well, ” very soon you will see the Power of the Powerless”.
salam
these agencies have never considered themselves answerable before the court, in the country where a powerful individual, group or any such agency would feel that they r beyond any law then that particular society is the perfect example of lawlessness.
these agencies have never ever been under the control of civilian govt. however, when traitor mush was ruling he knew the acitivites of these agencies and in a way they were under his control but civilian govt. cannot leash those agencies, even in a good faith no govt. official or minister could raise voice over this issue bcoz they know the consequences very well. atleast supreme court showed some guts that they strongly asked them about those abductions.
agencies r supposed to work secretly but for the country but most of the times agencies have been used to exploit the political conditions and to add further to turmoil and as a result of that law and order situation got out of control.
by law these agencies r under interior ministry but this is only for formality.
murder, abduction, chaos, rumors all these things r included in the duties of agencies. still some agencies r after some politicans and also traitors who r sitting outside they have fear in their mind as they know very well the motives of agencies in the country.
once benazir bhutto wrote an interesting book named ‘fauj, hakumat aur agencian’.
May ALLAH bless Pakistan and Pakistanis.
On the contrary, I feel the agencies need to be many times more powerful than they are at present.
This country needs intelligence agencies on the lines of the GESTAPO or NKVD whose RUTHLESSNESS, REMORSELESSNESS and RELENTLESSNESS was second to none. No intelligence agency in the world WAS, IS and WILL ever get close to what these legendry organizations achieved.
This country needs concentration camps where the Army Haters are exterminated on an industrial scale.
It’s time that the Armed Forces take control of all orphanages in the country and recruit these children into FANATIC NATIONALISTS who can take care of the enemies of the state and its organs.
We need a HITLER YOUTH like organization to take care of these journalists, civil society, mullahs, lawyers, judges, and university students and PTI who are all enemies of the Armed Forces and therefore, they must be dealt with utmost ruthlessness.
This is something thats been happening for a long time , its has only become bigger in size and worst in nature . First with the bengalies , and for the rest of the country they were portrayed as RAW agents and deprived of basic human rights leave alone the constitutional rights of being Pakistani. Then with balochistan operation , then Bhutto Execution and subsequent suppression of PPP specially in Sind, then to some extent Mohajirs /MQM and nowadays Again Balochs and so called islamic extremists(paktoons).
The ARMY has brutalisied and persecuted now almost every other pakistani no matter if he is CJ, PM ,President ( Rafiq Tarar) ,every other party, ANP ,BNP, PPPP,MQM ,PML-N and JI ( they detonated house of JI ex- parlimentarian & Naib Sadr Haroon Rashid in Bajur inwhich his mother along with other woment were killed) and then Afia Siddiqi and thousands of missing Pakistanies.
On other hand they buried General Niazi who surrendered to INDIA in pakistani Flag with all protocool and honour and also continue to support another Dictator Musharraf , who is still served by 12 serving army personell even abroad , unprecedented for any ex-president or COAS.
The matter has reach to such a level that none can even say a word on this in Pakistan let alone talk of any accountability. The only people who supports ARMY now are the people who are in the ARMY or ex-servicemen and some of thier relatives.
Having said this all , i believe thier time has come . Thier Masters ( British & Americans ) will bury them once these idiots are done with the grave they are preparing on the orders of thier masters. Pakistan will face a great turmoil as consequence of this but i hope and pray that we will not become another Lebanon or Iraq.
@nsdap
If wishes were horses,beggars would ride.
@ DON
This stupid, jahil and junglee Nation, Govt, Media and judiciary can not control armed monsters. They can only vote for Nawaz Shreef and Zardari. I will contimue to call this Nation, Govt, Media and Judiciary stupid, jahil, junglee and qadiyani until it brings Jamait Islami in power. Jamai Islami is the only party that can run this country. When we will come in power we will give NWFP and Balouchistan Govt to Taliban because we fully support Tehreek Taliban Pakistan. We will control these armed monsters as we did in NWFP and Trible Areas.
Defence spending exceeds 1st quarter budget limit!
The budget for the current fiscal year earmarked Rs442 billion for defence. Higher than planned expenditure on defence and flood rescue and relief work and lower than estimated revenue collection in the first quarter had increased the quarterly fiscal deficit to 1.6 per cent from the budgeted target of 1.4 per cent of GDP, the official said.
Source DAWN:
http://www.dawn.com/2010/11/27/276499.html
The only way to rein in this monster is for a mob of 100,000 citizens to attack the GHQ and do a public lynching of anyone caught in khaki uniform; I don’t care how many innocent faujis get slaughtered.
That is the only way to tame these murderers and kidnappers operating under the cloak of a sacred uniform.
میں پاکستان آرمی کے بارے میں صرف اتنا ہی کہو گا کہ ان کی موجودگی میں ہمیں کسی دشمن کی ضرورت نہیں ہے. پاکستان کے لوگوں کو اگر اپنا مقدر سنوارنا ہے تو پھر ہمیں اپنے حقوق کے لے کسسی اور دشمن سے نہیں بلکہ اسس ادارے کے اندر ان منافق چہروں کو جو دوست کی شکل میں ملک کے دشمن ہے سامنے لانا ہوگا اور میں اسس حد تک کہوں گا کہ جو کچ جنرل ایوب سے لے کر مشرف کے دور تک جن جن لوازمات سے ان بدمست افسروں کو نوازا گیا ہے ان سے یہ سب کچ واپس لیکر خزانے میں جمع کیا جاہے. لیکن اسس کے لہے ان سیستدانو کو بی اپنے آپ کو بدلنا ہوگا. میں تو یہ سمجتا ہوں کہ جو کچ کرنا ہے انی لوگوں نے کرنا ہے کیونکے یہ لوگ عوام کی ووٹوں سے بن کر اتے ہے . مجے بھہوت امید ہے کہ محممد علی جناح جیسا کوئی شخص ضرور دوبارہ پیدا ہو گا اور اسس قوم کو اسس کی امنگوں کے مطابق کامیابی اس سفر کی طرف لے جا ہے گا جو قاہد کی کمی کی وجہ سے ١٩٤٨ سے اگے نہیں چل سکا. اور ایک آخری بات ” خدا کبھی بھی ان کے حالات نہیں بدلتا جو اپنے حالات خود نہیں بدلتے. الله حافظ
@aftab
“Role of Common Man – jamm all the main roads and motorways and bring the entire country to a standstill until all are released and the culprits are thrown behind bars starting with the current BEGHAIRATH COAS.”
@KAWA
“The only way to rein in this monster is for a mob of 100,000 citizens to attack the GHQ and do a public lynching of anyone caught in khaki uniform; I don’t care how many innocent faujis get slaughtered.”
Nothing short of this will work. – Judiciary, Government/Executive, parliament, media can’t do a thing.
Latest:
IB chief rejects Attorney General’s plea in SC
ISLAMABAD: Director General Intelligence Bureau Javed Noor has categorically rejected Attorney General Maulvi Anwar-ul-Haq’s assertion that like the ISI and the MI, there were no laws governing the functions of the IB, affirming that the apex courts had all the rights to question the conduct of his agency.
“We are answerable to the judicial authorities as well as the executive,” said the DG IB while talking to The News in the backdrop of the attorney general’s position that he took before the Supreme Court late Thursday over whether or not spymasters could be put on notice directly, instead through other executive organs. Asked why the attorney general gave a false statement if the IB didn’t agree with his position, Javed Noor said he could not comment on it. …
@shahbaba007
Very well said,if our Military establishment should have been very patriotic,prop people and believe in strengthening state,they could easily have done it because of their powerful authority in the affairs of state.Its THE most powerful and mighty institute,a state within state,they are always in power either directly or behind scene,but the fact of the day is that they have failed miserably in making our country a modern welfare state.They are responsible for all such mess.
First I thought by “armed monster” PKP was finally going to talk about the armed gangs of thugs running around blowing themselves up, attacking places of worship, declaring everyone kafir and therefore “wajib-ul-qatal” but as it turns out, this article is about “the OTHER armed monster” who created “THE OTHER ARMED MONSTER” and now is abducting, and disappearing Pakistani citizens for being part of the “bad section” of that other at time group of useful idiots.
People who want to “control” this so called monster should first take an honest look at all the times their “chaheetas” have collaborated with this very same armed monster and stood shamefully quiet as this entity was dissappearing, abducting, killing and engaging in extra-judicial abuse of the worst kind against _their_ (percieved) enemies.
I’m looking at you Jamat Islami and the rest of the MUNAFIQ religious right! you who were partners in crime for FIFTY YEARS with this very same monster, but who turned against you when the real master, the USA and your “interests” diverged.
Now the religious right in Pakistan is acting like a jilted girlfriend and calling Pakistan Army all kinds of names, and they’d like us to forget that they sat in Army’s “godi” for all this time and most of them still are doing it.
Unfortunate for this nation to endure these offences in her twilight years.
And sure enough my comments are in moderation.
Before you start talking of an armed monster, just look at the Pakistani masses who are producing these monsters, which actually are the Pakistani elites, who got to the top of their power by regurgitating English and some current affairs to get to these positions. A lot of people seems to hate the Pakistani army, which are no angles, but they are the reflection of the Pakistani collective psyche.
The tragedy of Pakistan is that the people who are the masters, or the ruling class or the so called uncivil society, the elites, the less than 10% of the population sucking the life out of the majority 90% with a sense of entitlement and with a two class system of , not like the “haves and have-nots“, it is a system of “take as much as we can, and shout the hell up, we deserve it, we the chosen few“.
Now how to deal with the rest is easy, look at a small sample, such as this forum, the Pakistani elites do not need to have ability to communicate, they can hire people and have them go on the media and online to fight their case, that they are the holly and chosen few who are above the laws of the land and are only answerable to themselves or their ethnic or family Mafia boss, in the other words, the biggest criminally insane and fraud of the family is always the leader of that family , who is funded and supported by the crime family.
The large crime families have one thing in common, you can trust each other, because since 2007 Nawaz Sharif, the Kashmiri Business Family mob boss and the leader of his own party, with his first initial as the name of the party(an oxymoronic thought) , has not paid any taxes, since according to his money slaves, personal servants, friends and family in crimes, that he has put his empire under different family members names. Now what is the legality of that, I will not go there.
Pakistan is the most illegal, corrupt, immoral, fraud and dishonest country in the world and the majority people have been trained, programmed and desensitized about corruption, crimes and criminalities as part and parcel of the daily life. As a national character we are a group of dishonest people, and the fact of the matter is that now it is an open secret that the current government only looks at your corruption, your crimes and your ability not to get caught, via your family ties or the ability to buy the most despicable group of sub humans, called the Pakistani lawyers community and its impotent judges, to promote you on the highest level.
The biggest and the worse criminals are the President of the Pakistan and his “mistress”, the she male or the queen of corruption, as the “prime misshape” of the country. The most criminally and morally insane, money launderer, tax cheat and a dictator within the family and his pet party, with below average intelligence and billions of dollars worth of loot, is the head of the second largest party in the government, and compromising, deal making, “charter” writing and always open to talk with the foreign agents for protection of his loot and his dire need for the visas of those countries, Nawaz The Mafia Don.
This whole song and dance and fake opposition is just to fool the people about the elections, which are the selections via NRO deal making of PPPP grave worshipping loons and their international criminally insane leader and his demonic son, ANP red capped monkeys deal making abilities with the Nato and the USA, by their dictator for life royal leader, MQM, serial killer, sitting in the laps of the British intelligence, waging a ethnic cleansing war in Karachi, Altaf Bhai, The PMLQ, a party of the most despicable grououp of “kings Men”, the sons of feudal lords, retired or dead army brass and some pet intellectuals, with the leadership of two of the most disturbed and morally and mentally bankrupt brothers and their families. Imran Khan, half human half British poodle, with the white race as chosen and preferred sole mates for reproduction, eeliest demigod, who will bring change to the people, who are not even worthy of his marriage.
All these Pakistani political elites are related to each other, by business interest, political interest or family ties and or interest. They are all the same, English regurgitating, whish to be like English royalty and their solutions for the problems in Pakistan require them to regularly visit London, with their offspring’s and their money and love interests, miraculously situated there. Pakistan is a microcasim of a failed exprement gone to the point of no possible reversal, it is what it is, and it will be what it is, will never change, it may get worse, if there is such thing or it may get less worse , that is the best hope one can have. Look at the people on this forum, full of contempt, hate, religious intolerance and willing to abuse verbally and in Pakistan, they even kill, burn alive or collectively punish people for simply political or religious differences, in the name of their Mafia Don, dead or alive or their preference of religious practices, the most corrupt and despicable country as we speak, has the name, ‘Islamic” republic of Pakistan.
The only way to tame these rascals is to take over the DHA, ASKARI Villas/Bank, Fauji Food & Fertilizers and nationalize these entities. After that’s done, the US should be asked to carry out drone strikes at the GHQ where Mujras are conducted every weekend at the expense of the common tax payers. These snobs have destroyed Pakistan, gifted us the NRO, corrupt politicians, Mulla-Mqm mafia and what not. There are reports that th CIA has been given a free hand in Quetta. At whose behest? None other than the C**t of the Abductor’s staff. Such a beautiful country ruined for a pittance by these products of incest!
I m sure with time and strength opf instituitions like SC, things will get better. there is no need for despair and disappointment as beiong spread by these “philosphers”.
Everyone seems to consider himself most wise person. There are many righteous and quality leaders in our sopciety and we need to follow their adviec and be good muslims.
@GoTK
“The Other Armed Monster” is just the offspring of the “Real Armed Monster”. There are not two but one, though I agree with you PKP avoided naming the “OTHER”.
@ parahoo
“despair and disappointment’, interesting take by a Pakistani elite, so we are the people who are causing hunger, despair, load shading, unemployment, inflation, ethnic cleansing, drone killings, out of control commodity prices, no law and order, crime families and mafia running parts of Pakistan as their empire.
“There are many righteous and quality leaders in our sopciety and we need to follow their adviec and be good muslims”
So who are these secret society of hidden righteous and quality leaders ? Could you kindly name a few. Now, could you explain what advice they are giving to good Muslims vs. the bad Muslims? What a stupid comment with your fantastic brain, how worse it has to get for the Pakistani people for us philosophers to acknowledge it.
Now how the time will strength the SC, is it a plant, tree or a jungle, which will thicken in due time? SC is deemed impotent and has compromised, because they can not implement their own verdicts, they are like “Eunuchs” with all the bells and whistles or the features and figure of girls or women, but with no reproductive organs. They look good, they may smell good, they may dance well, but end of the day, the only thing they have been able to give birth to, is hope and hot air.
Wake up from your make-believe world. This is not going to change because elites like you want to still wait for some divine intervention.
ConcernedAmericanPak,
Bravo for speaking the truth, bitter though it is!
It is terribly unfortunate that true power in Pakistan rests almost entirely with the Army. This however is not entirely the fault of the army, it is simply indicative of the repeated failures of the self-serving civil and political elite of Pakistan. The pattern was set soon after independence and has continued ever since in the same direction.
The only opportunity of escaping this vicious circle was after the debacle of 1971 when the army was weak and demoralised, however this opportunity was frittered away by the most autocratic and dictatorial ruler Pakistan has ever seen, i.e. ZAB. It is ironic that he is/was considered a so-called “democrat” by the twisted standards of our politics. This man’s megalomania clearly knew no bounds, he sacrificed half the country on the alter of his ego. Those who disagree can never explain why he stopped PPP delegates to NA travelling to Dhaka after Yahya Khan has announced the date of the inaugural meeting of the elected NA from 1970 elections, as everything that happened after was a direct result of this action.
I would go so far as to say that had Zia allowed ZAB to live, we would have ended up as a Libya or worse still, Saddam’s Iraq and would actually have been in a much worse situation that we are. In this sense the Pakistan Army has been a guarantor of some level of middle-class influence in the Pakistani decision making and saved us from the dismal fate of becoming a Libya or Iraq or worse still a North Korea!
Need to be extra carefull while pointing to agencies. These agencies only work for the interest of Pakistan. If they arresst some one must be some reason.
Rule of law is key thing just follow the american and western way of work.
How there agencies work and how law come in between.
We have a best governing model already ie europe and america simply RULE OF LAW
American Justice; Tom Delay, former Republican Majority Leader might end up spending the rest of his life in prison…See the video for the crime he committed.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/tom-delay-found-guilty-12244284&tab=9482931§ion=2808950&playlist=2808979
three cheers for all who have an optimistic approach towards pakistan.
coz we believe we can do it
good times are definitely ahead of us inshAllah
a change is evident through people’s mind change.
no doubt our army is the main culprit.
@ punjdublin
what rule of law you are talking man?
they only have one rule, how to grab the riches of wealth of the nations by any means. Their rule of law is WAR, thus killing millions and giving the world false explanations.
mind you, we have the better rule of law in our islamic system, the only thing is to adopt it and implement it in true sense.
and time is not far when we will have that rule of law in this gifted country.
@ punjdublin
what rule of law you are talking man?
they only have one rule, how to grab the riches & wealth of the nations by any available means. Their rule of law is WAR, thus killing millions and giving the world false explanations, and people like you just follow them, whether it is the story of holocast, or the drama of 9/11, their only aim is taking control of world resources. what rule of law you are talking about.
Bush responsible for killing millions in Iraq with all the falsified reports and no body gets no punishment, where is your rule of law.
Mind you, we have the better rule of law in our islamic system, the only thing is to adopt it and implement it in true sense.
and time is not far when we will have that rule of law in this gifted country.
@concernedamericanpak
I can see your point but in reality you have not lived in the country for long time and how can you know about these quality people. In fact with righteous efforts, there are thousands of them even in colleges, universities, schools, localities etc.
They have clear picture of what is the root cause of the problem and what is the solution, not just through their own mind thoughts but actually reading through history and many other literature sources, and they are working on it in different capacities to rectify the society.
this is always very slow process esp with current hype of the vice through media etc, but it will work with the Help of God Almighty. This is the only way and has been the same in the past. This is not the first time that it has happened in this world and it is worrying and very frustrating for everybody but no need for “despair”.
I hope you can understand and be hopeful now.
As far as i think everybody has played enough of his part, and screwed this country upto an extent that now it’s standing on the brink of its extermination. This supreme court and CJ, these are just a hoax to show people of country that there’s is still somebody to listen to their sighs but in actual they are just equally included in the process of creating a worse situation for the people.
In all this scenerio, Pak Army and ISI is the only institution that has been working solely for the protection and betterment of this country. And if media continues to play this same card of Army reporting their acts to other institutions that are themselves full of corrupt traitors would only lead to complete destruction of this country.
And the general public recognizing this fact that Pak Army has remained the only institution in this country that is disciplined, although draws a huge amount of budget but hasn’t performed a single act of treason, SHOULD, not fall into this conspiracy plotted by our foreign funded media to completely curb the actions of Army. Hence, leading to complete destruction of this country.
@Aftab Ahmed
Aftab Bhi you did not understand my point. What ever america or western countries do they do fort their own inrterest. They have wars on other countries for their countrie or for their nation for their people because they dont cheat their own nation.
We people just start mourning about their killings of other nations and occupation of other country s sources. Hamain sirf Apnay greeban main jhankna chahiye instead of mourning america s actions which wont stop until we make ourselves strong enough.
Every country should do best for their people only we Pakistani as nation dont understand this fact.
Our basic problem is lack of rules and regulation in country.
Only strength of these countries ( west and america ) is Law. They dont have sources like Pakistan.
Sajid
@ punjdublin
sajid bhae, thanx for a nice explanation to your point,
I understood what you wanted to say, but I meant that we do not need any ideal for what our “law” should be, b’coz our own code of law is superior to any other contemporary law and i believe it is perfect because it is the code given by the Creator of the universe.
It is true that these countries (West and America ) have a good implementation of law, but you can not say they have complete justice. They only have their interests, fine if you think that everything is fair that help your country & people prosper (and for that you are allowed to kill innocents) but then what you will say about the cruel rules & laws towards the black skin people in their country (U don’t have to go far beyond in history for that).
whatever dear Sajid, my point of view is that we have much better legal system that is ethical too, unlike the systems you are referring to.
If we have failed to follow, it doesn’t mean we need someone else’s system.
The days are coming when our people will strive for rule of law, In fact the process has already started.
Give me credible nation serving democratic leadership, I bet army will never have courage to intervene. The problem is that our leaders is appointed by US and this low creature start serving their masters as well their unending appetite for money and damn care about the public so in this situation when army intervene these blood suckers find them self alone and then enters into pacts to save their necks and run away from the country.
So their is only one way to stop army intervention is to bring credible and and nation serving leadership. As long these monarchies are there army intervention will continue.
Let me say this, current trailer of democracy is worst than dictator rule.
My goodness, what are we Pakistani doing? Our army is kidnapping, torturing and killing its own people.
After reading leaked report below, it is totally evident that there is a lot going on behind the scene……..In this report Mossad Chief is praising Gen. Musharaf and is concerned about his safety. Israel is saying Iraq will be weaker state in future divided into 3 groups Shias, Sunnis and Kurds…..Much more in this report.
Dear Pakistanis and Muslims open your eyes otherwise…………
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/120696
All these eleven persons kidnaped by agensies are acused of being involved in attack on Musharaf, army mosque and some other army location.
I always wonder why people who are involved in attacking army are captured but not even few people have been arrested or punished who were involved in attacking civilians. Innocent civilians are not humans……………..
Off the subject. This is from wikileaks;
King Abdullah on President Zardari: “When the head is rotten, it affects the whole body.” #Wikileaks 42 minutes ago via TweetDeck
Basharat: you bring up a very interesting point. I guess the only answer is that all crimes against the civilians in Pakistan have a hand of army in it… That is why no one ever have dared to start or complete the investigation.
————————————————————————————————
Basharat said:
All these eleven persons kidnaped by agensies are acused of being involved in attack on Musharaf, army mosque and some other army location.
I always wonder why people who are involved in attacking army are captured but not even few people have been arrested or punished who were involved in attacking civilians. Innocent civilians are not humans……………..
Who ruled Pakistan in 2007? Military, right.
Read below; The only reason the military establishment gave Washington as an excuse was that if the media found out about it…………. The khakis were ready to sell-out! Free media saved our nuclear assets.
———————————————————————————————-
wikileak;
US failed in removing enriched uranium from Pak facility: report
A dangerous standoff with Pakistan over nuclear fuel: Since 2007, the United States has mounted a highly secret effort, so far unsuccessful, to remove from a Pakistani research reactor highly enriched uranium that American officials fear could be diverted for use in an illicit nuclear device. In May 2009, Ambassador Anne W. Patterson reported that Pakistan was refusing to schedule a visit by American technical experts because, as a Pakistani official said, “if the local media got word of the fuel removal, ‘they certainly would portray it as the United States taking Pakistan’s nuclear weapons,’ he argued.”
@Usmani and all others…
All of my esteemed Pakistani brothers, sisters and young people and older people, I have noticed one thing as a common bond in all of us, even the paid agents of the Pakistani crime families political wings, due to the dire poverty and hopelessness, that we all love Pakistan and want this country to have a better future and a some sort of “sustainable and less painful miserable present”.
The reality is that I do not care about personalities and the religious or political philosophies, I care about the majority poor and suffering Pakistani slaves, the prisoners of the few elitist and the human animals who have been treated as a sheep,donkey’s, cows and camels for the purpose of , to be used as laborers, sex objects, source for milk and honey for the ruling elites and their dysfunctional, moral less, conscienceless and soulless families or use them by the military elites and political family and ethnic Mafias as human sacrificial lambs, slaughter for the best interest of the ruling few, via target ethnic cleansing, mass murders for the best interest of the religious Mafia’s and via drone attacks and hellfire missiles holocaust for the money and political expediency.
All this for their demonic offspring’s overseas, top of the line education (in their underdeveloped minds) in the top universities, lifestyle of the rock stars and prince and princesses, and building illgal empires all around the world for few thousand chosen demons on the expense of millions.
Their demonic offspring’s who have been genetically mutated and desensitized from the sufferings of the majority, because they believe that they are the royal chosen few, the kings, the queens, the prices and the princesses.
This whole system of deaf, dumb and blind from the daily sufferings and hardships of the common men and women of Pakistan is the system which needs to be eradicated and completely redone, via a massive accountability process and public hangings of the looter and their demonic “special” children and families. We need a system, which can reach out and bring back the looted wealth of Pakistan, per the future agreements with the foreign agents, the countries and friends and foe.
Once we collect all the loot and dispose of the criminals and their demonic offspring, which has sprung out of the corruption money and absolute power on the expense of the majority, and we must make an effort to shatter the carefully created personas of these demigods of lies, theft and corruption by pulling them out of their graves, these so called of “Saheed and hero’s” and hang their remains on the street corners and then flush them in the nearest gutter. The make-believe Saheeds, and heroes of our filthy, ugly, disgusting, despicable, bloody and unbelievable political dysfunctional and propaganda based system of family and ethnic based political dictatorships.
When wiki leaks is out it looks little less important to comment on this important topic.
SC is hopeful that warnings and threats of ultimate judgment would convince these monsters in power.
Unfortunately SC is at disadvantage here….at the same time they can not fight all the crooks civilian and military alike.
To handle one they need support of other
Second option is martyrdom of judiciary.
It is not about any specific institution or person. Don’t try to make any single one scapegoat to declare all others as sacred cows. I have time and again mentioned that in our short history four major groups contributed in the problems of the country and people, namely: religious lot, politicians, judiciary and army! It would be unfair if any single of them is blamed for all the sins or anyone is labelled as sole problem. I think it is also one of our problems that we don’t try to see things fairly and realistically: one day we praise one so much that it seems to be an angel and next day we curse him so much that it seems to be Satan. We need to change this behavior and thinking style. If everyone accepts its own mistakes and tries to rectify them then it will be real change but if instead of accepting personal mistakes/weaknesses and correcting them, others are blamed then no one would be corrected at the end of the day.
I think this matter should not be made a “tamasha”. Instead of giving so many public statements and allowing media to create a lot of dust, spice and confusions, why not concerned parties sit somewhere in comfortable environment and find an appropriate and realistic solution? I think some people want this tussle and fight between different institutions. SC is of Pakistan and Army/Agencies are of Pakistan too! or are they fighting for personal gains, scores and egos? All major institutions should seek coordination and cooperation to solve issues instead of unnecessary conflicts and fights, i think.
What a Gem and
religious lot !!!!!!!!!
Someone individual or institution has to take a blame because Human Beings are Missing.
I think this matter should be make a big tamasha.
A lot of dust to be blown
A big hue and cry is needed before dust is settled.
Once dust is settled all will be history and some genius would be looking for sitting arrangements somewhere comfortable environment.
Once I become a legislator…first law I will propose…a ban on to much talking without saying anything.
@jazoo
“What a Gem and
religious lot !!!!!!!!!”
What is hard to understand? Where is gem and how?
“Someone individual or institution has to take a blame because Human Beings are Missing.”
Of course someone has to as it is very important to know whereabouts of missing people and reasons for their arrest!
“I think this matter should be make a big tamasha.”
Because you are among those who like and make tamasha or!
“A lot of dust to be blown”
We already have enough dust, no need for this kind of further pollution.
“A big hue and cry is needed before dust is settled.”
Those who are creating this dust will damage a lot in this situation!
“Once dust is settled all will be history and some genius would be looking for sitting arrangements somewhere comfortable environment.”
Geniuses will already be finished or tired in this hue and cry and opponents will sit on them who are already on our borders!
“Once I become a legislator…first law I will propose…a ban on to much talking without saying anything.”
Then you will be the one who will be banned first!
It is only the public opinion can control the agencies, judiciary and legislative are not capable to control the monster because their survival is linked with army. I believe the people of Pakistan with clarity can do.
Pak Army has Unity, Faith (in themselves), and Disciplin.
Our parliament lacks all of them.
Pak Army has professionalism at its best. They dont divide themselves on the basis of language or ethnicity.
Instead of having a “gol maiz conference of rats, like bawa said), we should try to find ways to strengthen other institutions too.
Army has power, and it can fill the vacum. its only a Law Of Nature my friends…
Laws of Nature will not change.
Gutsy.. I think PML-N has decided that hell with power and wish to put the army in it’s place. This is the time when PPPP should support this effort. The biggest EVIL that Pakistan faces is not the “taliban” but “Pak Army Generals”. There is a greater chance of the country disintegrating because of these tin-pot-generals than the combined might of all kinds of taliban & Al Qaida together.
———————————————————————————————–
Rana voices concern over ISI’s political wing
Updated at: 0141 PST, Tuesday, December 07, 2010
Rana voices concern over ISI’s political wing LAHORE: Punjab law minister Rana Sanaullah has raised serious concerns over army’s involvement in politics, demanding abolishment of the political wing of ISI, Geo News reported Monday.
Pakistan agencies never arrest any person at random. a file is open his name and his every activity is monitored with camera picture. the civil court lawyer after getting money from terrorists for himself and for judges release him on bail. those people have no conscience. it is the duty of agencies to investigate the case thoroughly. their investigation method is not like use of third degree punishment like police. For God sake think a bit for the security of Pakistan too.
I am all for handing over the military and ISI officers to US. Did our generals not hand over our fellow citizens to U.S?
In a quid pro Quo, democratic government should now put these jackals in in orange jump suits and hand them over. Would suggest they get $10 million for anyone above a Colonel rank.
———————————————————————————————-
JI against handing over of ISI officials to US
Updated at: 0318 PST, Friday, December 24, 2010
JI against handing over of ISI officials to US LAHORE: Reacting aggressively to the rare demand of US court of summoning officials from the premier Intelligence Agency of Pakistan, ISI, the Jamaat-e-Islami chief Syed Munawwar Hassan urged government to part ways with global coalition forged for war on terrorism, Geo News report
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