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Benazir and Fazul-ur-Rahman Partners in Elections
Daily News reports that Benzair Bhutto of PPP and Maulana Fazl-ur-Rahman of JUI have agreed for seat adjustments in the upcoming elections.
There has been some progress in connection with seat adjustment between Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (F)and Pakistan Peoples Party.
This was stated by Secretary General JUI (F), Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Haidery while talking to Geo TV.
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210 Responses to “Benazir and Fazul-ur-Rahman Partners in Elections”
In islam woman can never Rule, Allah has cursed those nations were woman ruled. Fazlur Rehman is a munafiq and Benazir is the most corrupted ruler pakistan has ever produced… oh wait a minute pakistan has only produced corrupted rulers. the reason is that we ourself are corrupted.
may Allah have mercy on us. Ameen
These Politicians they think they are all that, i have to say one thing at this point BB has no shame she’s a horrible horrible women her father was killed by a military dictator and all she cares about is being a PM. This movement will never die, musharrafs days are numbered and so are Jui-F and PPP.
Strange thing reported by GEO is that PPP will not field candidate against Fazlu who is most vulnerable to be defeated in this election and in return Fazlu will not field candidate against BB in Larkana
this is a joke , Fazlu can not even find a candidate in Larkana let alone field him against BB.
I never thought PPP is so dumb to have such a deal. I hope they did not agree on a similar deal with Mush
I hope this is not true. BB is a clever woman and I think she is playing a game with Mullahs. I would wait for PPP person to clarify this.
Protest in Islamabad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK_fV5ppxaE
These people make me proud
Dalla and the hore get together.
Look at at OIL prices. What else will you expect from Diesel.
I salute These People .If few more acts like them then we don not have to wait much longer to get back our heo judges on the job and they will start cleaning the mess with contnuing public support such as demonstrated by these people in the Islamabad Demonstration And good thing is police is not showing as brutal behavious as was in the case IMRAN KHAN sisters Protest in LAHOre
These 2 are in the boat openly supporting Musharaf and they do not want the restoration of the Judges BB has said this clearly. Many of the bigwig Lawyer belong to PPP and I am surprised no one says anything and even lawyers do not question PPP lawyers about their sincerity in Lawyers movement. I am surprised about Raza Rabbani, who says this matter should be left to next parliament, which ofcourse will get 2/3 majority PLMQ and JUI F, and then what???
I think persoally the Benazir is the top Corrupt leader and the second one is Nawazsharif and fazlu is top munafiq.
But very sad to say that pkpolitics.com loset its neutrality coz it is favoring more NZ than others e.g.
When BB arrived pak no coverage to her by Pkpolitics.com but great for NZ.
Positive steps of NZ are more elaborated than on BB by pkpolitics.com.
Negative points of BB are more elaborated than NZ on pkpolitics.com.
I think this pkpolitics.com is financed by the Nawaz sharif and this site is no more neutral.
Amazingly all along in the past 3 years the combined opposition could not be formed because BB did not want SIT with Malunas unless maulna leave the Baluchistan Government but know same maluna and BB are sitting ro gether to help MUSH to advance External GUNDA MAFIA AGENDA
Well let’s just say “PPP, Fazlu, and Nawaz Parners in Elections”. Now that it is certain APDM won’t be boycotting, maybe under the guise of the “charter of demands” it was seat adjustment between PPP and PML-N that was going on. Can’t be that they were discussing judiciary issue all these days as advertized.
BB IS AGENT OF USA AND ALL SHE WANTS IS PM SLOT WHAT MAY COME EVEN IF SHE HAS TO COMPROMISE WITH THE SELF IMPOSED DICTATOR WHO HAS TAKEN OATH TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUION OF PAKISTAN WHO HIMSELF HAS SHREEDED IT . WHAT A SHAME. BOTH R SHAMELESS ANIMALS.
@Iqbal Hussain
Majority of people on this site want two things, and they want the first one the most. Now it is a wish and might never happen. But it just tells you where the audience of this site stand
1) Restore Judiciary
2) Take back Pemra ordinance, so we can see our favorite anchors (Kashif Abbas, Talat, hamid Mir etc)
Now for above two steps, only NS is talking about Judiciary. So give me an honest answer where does BB stand on this.
Your honest answer will tell you who is financing this site.
BB and FAZL did not agree to include the restoration of judges point in the charter of democracy, NS and others are trying hard to convince them. If NS and IK succeed, curtains for MUSH, but I doubt it.
I pray that this doesn’t happen. I can’t trust Ghafoor Haideri either.
Assalam u Alikum
Dear Admin
Hope u r well .. this suggestion has nothing to do with the BB, Diesel deal but i want to bring into ur consideration a following suggestion..you may take this matter if u think it is ok .
i read in the news tht the judges who have not taken oath will not get any pension.(ofcourse the suggestion wil be applicable if this thing happens). My suggestion is this tht if this is true then for sure we can set up a fund.This fund will be used for the betterment of deposed judges only. I am sure tht people will come forward and wil donate in this fund whole heartidly. Because if u see it is the Judges who have made sacrifices and not the political parties. the role of every politician is very shameful.
secondly we should not think tht setting up such fund wil be doing some “Ehsaan” on the judges but i think this is a must thing to do as a duty from every person who believes in the free judiciary.infact these brave Judges have done EHSAAN on us.
this is just wht i thought.. if the suggestion is not worth putting in front of other people then its ok.
take care and Allah Hafiz
@econfused,
What a wiered logic about saying that this website is sponsored by someone like NS or BB.
What do you think all the TV channels who were critising Govt are sponsored by political parties. The lawyer movement after March was sponsored by CJ? I just dont get it how we can say that this website is sponsored by some political leaders.
In my opinion, Pkpolitics web site is completely unbiased in reporting and the admin is doing wonderful job. Administerator- Please continue to do your good job. We all thank you for your noble services rendered to bring needed political change in Pakistan. These are very troubled and difficult moments in the history of Pakistan.
What a shame: Honourable judges are being asked to vacate their houses:
http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayNewsLive.php?news_id=51236&featured=1&cat_id=2
@shahid
You must have misunderstood, My reply was fr Iqbal. The site has a bias and it is toward restoration of judiciary, wont u agree? and whats wrong with that?.
This bias is not for NS or BB.
this is really preposterous, benazir and fazl joining hands … they can stoop to any extent…
Meanwhile enjoy this:
(hundred poems before mush quits)
http://inqilaabistan.blogspot.com/
I am totally in support of BB action…..only intelligent mind can think of the peacful solution. all you guys want is to just go on street , destroy everything and then get your target….PPP policy is different….it was bcz of BB that MUSH is no longer an army chief…….give her the credit where it is due…who are you to call her corrupt….you courts have never ever in last ten years charged her for any thing….NS himself apologised to BB for filing all those cases and said he was wrong………….Guys get realistic……
I support every action taken by BB…i am sure when she will get the 2/3 majority she will peacfully bring those judges back…….
Good luck with your efforts of brining the judges back by sitting infront of your PC…..
@listen
I have/had same ideas about BB and PPP. I can still believe that at the end of the day BB will teach Musharraf and Army a good lesson. But to be honest it will be hard for me to digest any (I emphasis “ANY” ) deal with Fazlu. I know PPP had dealt with Fazlu previously also, but after that just until recently every PPP sympathizer (including myself) and member had regretted creation of Taliban and supporting any type of link with these molvis specially Fazlu.
It would be absolutely disgusting to hear any sort of understanding between PPP and JUI. Again let me tell you talking with Musharraf in order to give him an exit strategy is defendable and justifieable but negotiating with Fazlu on any pretext is absoultely rubbish.
One of the problems with the masses is their memory.
I would like ask who ever wrote in favour of BIB just one question. Did you ever hear of Musharraf showing a soft hand on BIBI before 9th March 2007 ?
Well, it’s just the lack of option infront of musharraf which is making him be soft. Otherwise nothing would have happened.
The second question to you would be, do you know BIBI hired a lobbying firm in the USA to get the backing of USA. She has promised some very dangerous things to west especially USA. It is those promises which have resulted in pressure over Musharraf. And that pressure + the inability of musharraf against judiciar both helped together, to bring Benazir into this situation.
If in your eyes that’s intelligence from BIBI, then you are free to live in the fool man’s paradise. But it actually has no existance.
For your kind information, like to add one more point. No body is hearing any solid stance over the sacked judges from Benazir. That also is not meaningless. After all those judges were about to turn down the NRO (National Reconciliation Ordinace) on the basis of which corruption cases of Benzir were to be lifted.
There is no rocket science in understanding simple things.
Yet again you are quite welcome to live in the fool man’s paradise if you wish. But for God’s sake, don’t confuse others.
@pejamistri
I take you point but Talban were never just created by BB and Fazlu..They had full support of US and uk…….it was a mistake but all were responsible but i am sure they all have learned…..
PPP and Fazlu have been together in election since 1996….i dont see why they cant be toghether again…..FAZLU cannot win without PPP support and will never go against the wishes of PPP when he is in the parliament…..
All the parties should participate in election….BB,NS,QAZI and FAZLU should get the maximum seats 2/3 majority and then make any legistlation they want…that will be the real test of these people……you cant blame any of them today for their strategy as they are not government……
It is like criticising any cricket team before the match…let them play the match…so what if the umpire is biased…so what is the refree is against them…they should never refused to play……go play and we will cheer for them…we will support them…we will vote them………
If the elections are held on 8th Jan, One thing is clear that in Lahore & Islamabad, the chances of roits are very much their, hope nothing bad would happen.
@Faraz
I would like to comment on your point about the hiring of lobbying firm. If you look at US politics specially in congress and senate , the lobbying firms are an important part of that system. The job of a lobbying firm is to sell to right US quarters (Congress, Senate and White House) your point of view. These firms will ensure that your point of view is heard in these quarters. There is no harm is hiring any lobbying firm and it does not require you to make any “promises” or “commitments”. Most of the countries/personalities in world including Iran, Pakistan have regularly hired such firms in order to mobilize support for their cause.
@ Masood
I agree with u. first BB use to say she would never sit with maulvies but now she is for what purpose and why not with the entire MMA, why just Fazl? Its the PPP who has a played a major role in the dismemberment of east pakistan in the past. BB has never been clear on her stance about the judges why? she is even trying to disown Aitazaz hussain, why?. Why doesn’t she quit the elections if she thinks they would be unfair? HOw is she going to get rid of the army by giving them legitimacy through these elections?
@Masood
Yet again you are quite welcome to live in the fool man’s paradise if you wish. But for God’s sake, don’t confuse others.
—————————————
That shows the difference …….
BB did this in USA???
BB WILL DO THIS ….
SHE IS THAT…..
SHE WILL DO THIS….
Grow up and get life of your own……dont criticise how they cook their food….atleast they dont buy it from take aways like you……
You dont even know who you support…….you just want the restoratuon of Judges…but none of you has any strategy……
so who is livging in fool man’s paradise ….
just try to read between the lines……..
My dear fried,
The problem is not in hiring a lobying firm. BUT WHY ON EARTH SHE LIKES IT IN USA ?
Can you give me one good reason why we need it there ?
Shouldn’t it be the people of pakistan to conovince.
Look where we stand in corruption after 8 years of Mad Gen rule:
Most corrupt as per TI
1. Albania
2. Cambodia
3. Cameroon
4. Macedonia
5. Kosovo
6. Nigeria
7. Pakistan
8. Philippines
9. Romania
10. Senegal
@listen
I am not sure if you have closely followed PPP stance about the JUI in the last 5 years. In numerous BB interviews she has regretted any relations with MMA specially JUI. And PPP had never supported NWFP government and Balochistan government. Well again as I said it will be hard for me to digest this specially when Fazlu is already a spent force by Mush.
I hope my fears prove wrong, but I will keep my fingers crossed on this issue.
@ listen
If u think that contesting elections is comparable to a cricket match, i think than everyone should participate. Tell me If PML-q comes to power again, what are u going to do? Protest! Why not protest now? and plz dont talk of a peaceful step taken by BB as we all know how violent ur jiaalas get.
A few are trying to bunch NS with corrupted leaders like Fazlu and BB. That is not fair. NS is trying his best to convince these two cunning and self centered politicians, in favour of bycotting the polls, unless All the honourable judges are rienstated. I fully agree with many others that these two are playing in the hand of another cunning and self centered person. (Mush). I think the three had already managed the election and future govternment to fit the purpose of their foreign masters. That option is unacceptable to 90% of Patriotic Pakistanis including myself. All the sacrifices given so far, by the people of Pakistan, will be in vain, if we could not succeed now. We must unite together at this very critical juncture to achieve our goals. We have to save our Pakistan.
On the other hand, I have great reservation for Mr Aitezaz Ahsan who is still clung to BB and have no courage to separate himself forom her. He (Aitezaz) was invited to join NS’ Party in a common struggle to restore the judiciary but he had declined. There is no ambiguity in that matter. I just can’t comprhend his logic. No PML-N candidate was anounce to face Aitizaz. He has recently sent a letter to all the strugling lawyers in which he has not criticised BB for her actions. Even though He is aware of her intentions but yet have no courage to ask her to change the coarse. I only hope that he will join those in favour of reinstatement of all judges befor election.
@masood
, who is America? What they have to do with Pakistan? They are difficult question to answer , but every child in Pakistan knows the answer.
Really difficult question to answer
America is god-father of Pakistan generals, and at the moment america has hired an “army on rent” in Pakistan to do their job. So if you need to get rid of them (generals) , you need to talk to the god-father.
Things like this happen… and the rest of us complain about why people are not coming on streets.
If the leadership is hell bent on not paying heed to public demand, how would u expect public to bear batons in the streets for their cause.
There is a reason why this site has an anti-BB bias. A PPP jiyala would call it funding from NS and a reasonable man with two eyes and average brain on the shoulders would point towards the PPP policies.
you all talk about how great BB is, how shrewed she is, and how expertly she got the uniform off (i doubt she did it), but why do u go silent when asked questions about the NRO and non-inclusion of restoration of judicity in the COD.
Everytime some coalition seems imminent PPP and JUI cause harm to it.
I feel sorry for these Jiyalas. They spend all their life supporting PPP and can’t admit that BB’s actions are not in the best interest of the country. Remaining in this state of denial, they support every action she does and claim for it to be shrewed politics.
Admitting when one is wrong takes courage …
@zenith
I believe most people like you are making lot of assumptions (not even Presumptions )……..and you have no way to prove thos assupmtions….
If the people of pakistan vote for PML(Q) then who are we to stop them………they are the worst party in my opinion to vote but they have good support in the rural punjab and CM Elahi did do some good work at basic levels……….
Only way you can stop PMLQ is vote the best party ……
P.S You know how dangerous JAYALS can be….so leave thhis to us Jayals as well…the day we decided to come….MUSH will be gone in seconds……but we want to try the peacful option first…i am sure it will work as we r quite confident that ouyr leader will do the best for the coutnry and for all the people of Pakistan…
Jiyai Bhuttoo…………
@listen and peja
you both have at-least made me re-thinking my earlier stance about BB but before going further, I need to ask you some questions…
How do I trust BB with regard to pushing the army back into barracks and restoring judiciary?
I do think that immediately after Nov. 3 she could have achieved these objectives if she had immediately gone for a street protest route. Just two weeks prior to taht she had 2 million people on the road. Why was that power not used?
Now, the issue is this. Whatever considerations stopped her from agitating after Nov. 3, why should I assume taht the same considerations will not stop her from punishing the army later? Add to this, there is the question of the results of the election. She cannot be sure that she will have enough seats to pass laws to dislodge mush/army. So my concern is trusting her with a future probable situation when she seems to be missing a current certain way of dislodging musharaf?
Further, what do we have in her past record to indicate that she was ever serious about pushing back the army?
tipu
Let me sum it up again.
Why do we hate Musharraf ?, because we disagree with his policies and he being an army man. Now let me draw a simple table of info
Let’s go issue by issue
1- Judiciary:
What favours musharraf in it, obiviously to keep the judges sacked
What is stance of Benazir ?, well we will see after elections.
2- DR AQ KHAN:
Musharraf: We will keep him in custody, but will not handover to USA
Benazir: Well we will allow west to question him.
3- NUCLEAR ASSETS:
Musharrf: They are in safe hands, the world does not need to bother.
Benazir: They are NOT in safe hands, the world needs to bother.
4- FOREIGN FOCES TO ACT IN PAKISTAN
Musharraf: No, we will handle terrorsts ourselves.
Benazir: Well, you can if you like, we don’t mind
5- INTEGRITY OF PAKISTAN (From histor)
Role of Musharraf/Army: Army had a role in east pakistan seperation. Ask some of the mothers/sisters/daughters in Bengla Desh who were brutely tortured/raped.
Role of PPP: Who won the majority in 1971 over all, and who resisted in letting that party have government. Well it was PPP.
6- Afganistan/Taliban:
Role Musharraf/Army: We always fought wars for USA and at times named them differently.
Role of PPP: Go back a few years, who installed taliban.
7- Power Hunger:
Musharraf: Would do anything, even if he needs to bow down to opponents
Benazir: First need to get rid of cases, then will enter in country on red carpet. Then straight away want to be PM. Nothing less. One day she speaks Musharraf is out of depth, in the evening American Ambassador meets her, and midnight she issues a statement “We can still work with Musharraf”.
Further to this, no comments.
And sorry if any one got hurt by my comments.
@listen
, rural punjab support for CM Elahi come on , check southren punjab (Bahawalpur, Multan , DG Khan , Muzzafar Garh) none of the PML-Q candidates is going to support Elahi.
Stop man , don’t compare lota party of PML(Q) with PPP. Now I am concerned if you are PPP sympathizer or not
And upper punjab you know already what has happened to that after arrival of Nawaz Sharif.
It is a contempt of PPP to equate it in anyway with PML-Q. And consider Elahi in anyway a threat to BB.
@listen…
your following comment…
“If the people of pakistan vote for PML(Q) then who are we to stop them………they are the worst party in my opinion to vote but they have good support in the rural punjab and CM Elahi did do some good work at basic levels………” stengthens the question I asked you.
You too are not sure of the results and thus cannot be sure that BB can get rid of Mush later.
Today she can but she is not. Why is she chosing to forgo a certain path for only a possibility in future?
Tipu
.
@listen
I couldn’t care less about ur jiyaalas. The issue is that even ur beloved BB says that elections will not be fair and she is conesting elections as a protest. U contradict ur own statements when u say that let the people of pakistan decide. On one side elections are not fair but leave it to the people to decide. What are u talking about? Why is ur BB not agreeing to include the point of restoring the same judges prior to NOV3rd, in the charter of demand. At one point BB said that no compromise with Mush is possible even with or without uniform and now she says that talks can resume. I and many like me are unable to understand ur intricate politics.
@pejamistri
I just hate talking bad about others…….
My moto in life is ” If i cant beat your strength , i will never attack your weakness”
Well…..you cant ignore their vote bank even if it is small…….but for atleast this election they will get few good seats….but before next election they will be a histroy…….
in my Constituency Sheikh Rashid will get good numbers of votes…..i am not sure whther he will win this time……but he is strong……
@tipu
vvvvvv well said bro…….
“Today she can but she is not. Why is she chosing to forgo a certain path for only a possibility in future?”
@listen
I just reported yesterday on this site that sheeda tilli has almost accepted his defeat in these elections. He is saying to his associates that it is his last election and it is not necessary to win every election. I can assure you that he is trying his best to get some patch up with Nawaz Sharif to get his support in order to at least fight in this election.
And in southren pujab where I come from Lagharis, Mazaris , Khars , Kwajas , Maliks everybody is jumping out of PML-Q boat so rest assured unless there is wide mass scale rigging PML-Q won’t even get respectable seats.
BB is already eyeing for 2/3rd majority in this election and anything less than that will mean rigging.
@listen and all bb jyaaalaaas
There is nothing wrong with endeavoring for kursi but its wrong to still be shameful enough to even think of coming to power when
1- you have looted the country brutally…. you ask fro the horses to be presented to your hubby on his birth day by the army,
2- claim that you own surrey mahal after denying for so many years.
3-convicted in Swiss court
4.You lobby in west to get into power and promise them on the issues of national security
5-you talk about religion when you don’t know the abc of it.
6-spread prejudice and use Sindh card in Sindh, by talking bad against Punjabis and all that
7-when your bro was killed in your regime and you never give a damn.
8-there was no media freedom in you regime.
9-you acted against judiciary and passed your famous 15 member amendment against judges
10-when you like your overrated father act impatiently and brutally towards any opposition force, your dad had notorious FSF and you also had brutal force designated to annihilate the opposition, your hubby is accused of killing so many innocent people including the late actor Sultan rahi.
11-when you can go loggerheads with your mom over chairperson ship of party
12-never have been in talking terms with your brothers and there families
13-when you r characterless, wicked and pathetic person who would sell any thing for kursi
14 cant even speak our national language
im all agianst army …but among the civilian govts ..im a big NO for bb…
@listen
Sorry for my earlier personal comments .. they were just in humourous sense.
@tipu
I look at the positive side , I would prefer to give any politician benefit of doubt. I believe that NS is doing right thing by creating pressure on Musharraf (read Army) about re-instating the judiciary, Imran Khan is excellently providing inspiration to youth of this country to rise against dictatorship, and BB is rightly pressurizing Musharraf (read army) by threatening them to take part in election. Hence I trust each of them.
As far as voting in election is concerned I always think that it is a personal affair of everybody and everybody has his/her own reasons to vote for or not to vote for a politician. I consider myself as a “swing vote”.
Fazlu like Altaf, Chaudhries and Arbab Rahim is most morally corrupt politician and his corruption is even more because he poses himself to be a religious scholar. Does religion teaches us this to side with evil and falsehood. Lanat ho aisay religious scholar par - I dont know what he and his chamchas would be teaching students in madrassahs - the main theme they would be teaching is HYPOCRISY.
@imran malik
Keep burning in ur hate for BB…..
We don’t give a damn for people who make their opinions purely on the basis of propaganda news and conspiracy theories…..
We will Vote for PPP and million of people in Pakistan will also vote for BB….
Don’t forget to watch the election night results…….
great intelligent move by PPP
Because of BB acumen, mush had to remove uniform. Now she is working with other parties to bring democracy in Pakistan.
Truly great daughter of great bhutto
Let’s not credit ANY politician with the “skin removal”. It was the momentum generated by civil society and the lawyers’ movement post March 9
@pejamistry,
I take your point but you have not responded to my question.
What gives you any raeson to trust BB with regard to getting rid of army? What did she do in her two terms or in the recent months taht makes you give her the benefit of doubt?
I too perhaps will be ultimately forced to accept the real-politic and hope that BB will surprise me after election but I will do that with scepticism not hope, as you do. But since I have always enjoyed your remarks on this forum and respect your opinions, I am interested in understanding the basis of your current position.
Tipu
@Eskay
You are very right, i think our real heors are Iftikhar Chaudhary, Imran Khan, Aitezaz Ahsan etc.
@ listen,
bhai meray, instead of cursing Imran or anyone else, why don’t you respond to the question? I am genuienly not sure of what position to take and thus would like to understand why you have the position you have. I do hope that you have a reason other than simply a fanatical blind faith in BB.
Tipu
Read this article about BB and Maulana
http://sagemovement.blogspot.com/2007/12/trojan-horse.html
What a news ?
” Benazir and Fazul-ur-Rahman Partners in Elections ” (please add IK too into in).
“PML (N) and PML (Q) join in Partnership in election” (Please add MQM too into in).
@listen
you said that every blame against bb is propoganda??
how about swiss court verdict…
how about there claim about surrey mahal..
in hindsight of all the developments there r some clear facts BB is in guagmire she doesnt want to boycott election an and the same time doesnt want to loose her credibility in civil society an lawyers she is quite optimistic abt her victory in elections as she sees no real threat(as she been assured by western world )but her real prob is day to day rising of civil society student an lawyers movement thats y she is changing her statements an stance everyday she is trying to play ends without loosing one and for maulana fazlur rahman he has been assured by ISI to have as many seats he would have dreamed of so this is the life time oppertunity for maulana diesel as for NS is concerned he knows there is not much in the nest for him so he is riding on the waves with lawyers students an civil society movemets and for IK he is the only one staying on principles doesnt matter wat to gain or lost
@listen
her your bro was killed in your regime and you never give a damn.
there was no media freedom in her regime.
she acted against judiciary and passed your famous 15 member amendment against judges
she went loggerheads with your mom over chairperson ship of party
she has never have been in talking terms with your brothers and there families
she is a characterless, wicked and pathetic person who would sell any thing for KURSI
cant even speak our national language
@ADIL NAUSHAD
100% CORRECT ANALYSIS..
but its not going to be easy win for bb..
due to her beghairties….she has made ppp only a sindh party…i dont see pppp winning anywhere else with majority other than rural sindh….
Who is this FAKE Kami @ 10: 28???
Who is this FAKE Kami @ 10: 28???
Who is this FAKE Kami @ 10: 28???
Who is this FAKE Kami @ 10: 28???
Please change your user name. I have been using this name for a long time.
@imran malik
No use sir, BB supporters are blind, and a party who designates posts of defence ministers and general secretaries to people like tikka khan, what can be expected from them.
BB takes so much turns , i wonder how she drives?
So your heroes are Iftikhar Chaudhary, Imran Khan, Aitezaz Ahsan etc.
Imran khan openely said he has idealised Z.A Bhutto from his teen age days….
Aitzaz Ahsan…. A leader and worker of PPP and standing firm with the BB
Iftikhar……the only man who helped him to restore 1st time was Aitzaz Ahsan and Munir Malik….both from PPP
What more you want from PPP ……
Our heroes are heroes of your heroes…….
Brother admin
how are you????????
mate ! I now beleive you are a very democratic
God bless you.
ameen
@zenith
deep down these idiots know that bb is corrupt and crap woman ….but just to hide there shame and just to follow there biasness they persisit on there blind support…..shame on jyaalaas
@tipu
Let me try.
So from her last two stints as prime minister I believe that it was her uncompromising stance with army that lead to her dismissal from the government. There is no way I can believe that our “honest” establishment (read army) dismissed her because of her “corruption”. As a matter of fact establishment never trusts a popular leader that was the reason that NS had to go in 1993 and 1999 , and that was the same reason that they had to dismiss BB in 1989 and 1996.
So there are two powers one that originates from the barrel of gun , every general in Pakistan has that power and with this power he can do whatever he likes to do. And then their is another power it is power of people. This power is as strong and equal in magnitude as that of gun. Once a leader gets this power he becomes as dangerous for army generals just as a general is dangerous for people.
Look once Nawaz Sharif got the heavy mandate how powerful he was , although before that I always thought of him a leader of average intellect, but with the power of people support behind him he became as dangerous to establishment as BB.
At the moment BB might be toothless in front of the establishment, but as soon as she gets in power she will have her teeth back.
But let me put here a disclaimer , current battle with establishment (reinstatement of Honourable Judges) has no parallels in history of Pakistan. And at the moment any leniency by any politician on this issue before or after the election ought to be unpordanable. Which means if BB does not put her weight in favor of the Judges before or after the elections then she would have to suffer the ultimate loss in her political career. Same goes with any other politician.
@listen
The same Aitezaz who re “the deal” said I am not her confidante on those “negotiations”?
The same IK who has clearly expressed his opinion of BB
The same Munir Malik who today came out strongly on the “elections”?
@zenith
u r right
there is no use to even talk to these blindfolded people…doob ke mer jaaao jayaaalaaas.
When a Fasiq (person with a loose character) brings any news, make sure to re-confirm that. This is not my saying, this is said by Quran.
We should wait because Maulana Haideri is definitely Fasiq like Maulana Diesel and wait for official PPP person to confirm that.
Correction
BB’s first government was dismissed in 1991.
@Ali Khan
In islam woman can never Rule, Allah has cursed those nations were woman ruled.
————————————-
I don’t like Benazir myself but when you talk about Islam, we should only present information which is very authentic. Those Ulema who concluded as what you mentioned, actually base their opinion on only one hadith from Abu Bakrah (ra) which was narrated at a very later stage when Aisha’s (ra) incident happened. Some Ulema also suggested that maybe Prophet (sws) gave these comments only for a particular nation. But in any case, any order in the religion should either come from the Qur’an or should come through Tawatur and Ijma’ of Sahaba. Otherwise, making a new law in religion based on only one hadith when this hadith can be interpreted in another way and nothing else supports the conclusion, a person should be highly caucious about it. IMHO!
@Tipu
I never said anything bad about Imran Khan….
@kami
Thanks for great words of wisdom. I actually did not thought about this. Let us wait what truth comes out.
The most stupid one will think of joining hands with Mush & expecting to win this bout of prearranged selection in the name of election. Its a perfect recipe of shot term fragile & weak collation ready to be kicked out of assembly again with B52, sorry I meant Sec 58 2(b). BB & Mush it makes no sense unless her dear brother Mullah Munafiq works as guarantor between these clashing personalities with the backing of Saudi & West. Movement for Justice will grow out of this chaos as a leadership full of sincere people who are sick and tired of both PPPP & PML. Day by day people are getting experienced in tackling these dictatorial rulers. PTI need sometime to gather some more grass root level support and current situation gives it a perfect opportunity to secure a firm foundation and rise as a real people’s power. IK Zindabad!
@imran malik
“doob ke mer jaaao jayaaalaaas2
=====================================
Your parents must be very proud of you with this kind of language….
learn some manners……..
Some thing for Jayala:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=84753
P.S: I used to be one, but I regret that.
@zenith
BB doesn’t drive, she is driven.
@pejamistry
Thanks for your response.
But this raises another issue…
I take your point that BB was removed from her offices beacuse she was becoming a problem for the army.
So she knows that when she comes the elected way, it does not work. Even now, Mush has 58(2) and thus she can again be dismissed.
One would have thought, therefore, that her failure to dislodge army though the parliament would be all the more reason that this time she would choose another route - street protest.
What if I suggest another posisbility to expalin her current stance in light of your explaination? Is it not posisble that the lesson she has actually learnt from her past experiences is that army is a reality and that instead of fighting she should join it. Thus, she has concluded that if she wants to regain power - which it is hard to deny - her best chance is a deal and not conflict.
I am afraid, I am more inclined to take this second expalaination as more likely, unless you persuade me otherwise.
Tipu
Why every body wants PPP/BB support to bring the Judges back……
most of you said many times that ppp is bad and BB is this and that…..so why dont you go on urself and get your judiciary reinstated……..
strange….you never miss the chance to insult BB and then you need her help……;
Thats just pathetic……..
HAVE ANYONE OF U SEEN THE POLL RESULTS ON AAJ.TV. THERE 60% BELEIVE THAT RESTRICTIONS ON MEDIA ARE JUSTIFIED. MUSH REFFERED TO THAT POLL IN HIS SPEECH. NOW AAJ TV HAS REMOVED IT.
No comments on this news:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11579
@zenith
Ajj Tv reported that the website was hacked and the hackers changed the results. infact 60% condemned the restrictions.
Let us not forget that people are waging the war in all parts of Pakistan, here is some great news from Multan.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11582
@Mazhar - I listened the mad Gen, where he gave the reference of AAj TV pool that about 70% ppl support his action regarding media.
AAJ TV clarifies that his website was hacked.
What a shameless liar.
@M Khan
P.S: I used to be one, but I regret that.
============================================
SO have you joined PMLQ now….good luck
I think the boycott of election is not the solution of the problem.And all parties should participate in the elections.
Bcoz as we see in 1985 due to boycott of major parties we get ppl like azab-e-illahi(previous cm of punjab) in the parliment.
so we should not provide an oppertunity to other mush chamchas to get safe ride to the parliament.Bcoz if these chamchas get majority in to parliament they can easily amend the constitution into their favour. After that we can not do anything once the amendment is made.
At the moment our supreme court is paralysed.
So all depends on next parliament.Therefore all parties should participate in election.
And if they unite like BB and NS jointly contesting the election i think they can easily get two third majority.
After that they can go for the restoration of judiciary and mending the constitution which is left in tatters by this mad president.
@ Zenith
Aaj TV website is based in Karachi and it is possible for IP providers to succumb to MQM demands. They should also get out of that place to save their skin.
@ mazhar
I guess mush hacked the site himself and referred to that in his speech.
@Tipu
You may be absolutely right , 11 years in opposition, fighting cases all over the world. Struggling to keep her support alive in masses without being in power. Yes if I were in her shoes , I would say let us accept the reality , let us talk to those wretched persons (generals) what they want. Let us negotiate something reasonable from them , let us come back in power at all costs. You are 100% right..
But you ignored what I said about the power of people. So after all the negotiations , deals. setellements and agreements what if she gets the gun (power of people0 back in her hand , everything changes all of a sudden, here is the BB riding on the support of people and there is the generals wounded because of public hatred against them and weak due to their unwinnable war against there own people. That’s a recipe for disaster for the generals. Remember they are not comfortable even now with BB.
Again I am not at all convincing you to vote for PPP , I myself would have voted for IK in this election if he was contesting , as there is a bycott call from lawyers I would rather bycott the elections and won’t cast my vote even I am in Pakistan on Jan 8.
@faisal khan
Well….you are absolutely right…but people on this site want to change everything by sitting infront of their PC….by contributing to anti PPP propaganda which they have been doing for the last 30 years(what a shame)…….
They want everybody in pakistan to go on the streets , kill themseleves, destroy everything bcs most of them living in their cozy houses in europe or USA with central heatings on 24/7….they dont understand the power of Dialogue and politics…..
any more Anti PPP comments….
@Listen
Are we talking about same BB who said my CJ is Iftikhar Ch in islamabad. Who said that she wil l do long march. Then a visit by Negroponte and she stopped talking about Judiciary.
I am neither a vote of BB or NS. I don’t take sides, They only thing we want is honesty. Nobody in power would like to have a judiciary with independent minded judges on it. BB understands it as a shrew politician may be NS.
But we are talking about strategy. We are talking about morality and ethics.
If somebody willing to bet, that here is what I have for PPP supporters. BB would never restore judiciary.
Now since Jayalas can’t see, but even in PPP manifesto, she talks about a NTRC (National Truth and Reconil Commison), and even that post can’t be given to any Judge who took oath under PCO that rules out judges who took oath earlier.
So BB shrewd Yes. You give her credit for Mush down fall no. It was one NO from CJ Iftikhar Ch, which has caused all this havoc.
You would not be seeing here here today, if CJ has accepted govt pressure on Steel Mill and Missing person cases.
But no you Jayalas have to just see how SMART BB is. I can have just pity on you guys.
@Ali Khan:
Quote:
____________
Allah has cursed those nations were woman ruled
____________
I challenge Mr. Khan to produce any Ayat of Quran that support his statement. This is a shameful propaganda by ignorant people.
In Islamic history Sahaba 9including Ashra Mubashra) took part in war of Camel under the command of Hazrat Ausha.
Quran didn’t talk about any male ruler in good words but used good words for a female ruler Queen of Saba.
Using religion card is thye most shameless act of anti-PPP Mullas.
I promise BB will not ke any alliance with any religious party. This is all propaganda.
@faisal and listen,
Why do you think that there are only two options: elections or bloody street protests?
I have already written why I think even if all the parties go in the election, there is hardly any reason to trust them with the removal of army from politics.
But, @listen, it is unfair to push the argument to the extreme and say that we all want people to be killed in the streets. What many of us in thsi forum are desiting is a mass peacful protests. There are so many examples in the world where regime change came through peaceful mass protests. Numbers matter. The Orange Revolution in Ukraine in 2004/05 is one example. It can be said that even the freedom of India/Paksitan was relatively bloodless (not migration but process to freedom). The end of apartheid inSAfrica is another example. Even the 1979 Iranian Revolution was through sheer numbers not mass killing. Of course, some loss will be there but are we not losing lives in any case?
So, I think, what people like @listen are not willing to consider is the chance that BB is not taking up - peaceful street prostests in huge numbers.
If people come out on the street, that is the only way even the US will have to reconsider its strategy. Afterall the US establsihment has to answer to opposition and public there. But, unfortunately, BB and others have tried to appease US establishment rather than give them a challenge through showing where the sympathy of masses lies.
And, on the question of why are we opposing BB but also expecting from her. Well, its simple. She undeniably has the power to bring a change - that is the raeson for expectation. But she is disappointing us - that is the raeson for opposing us. If she is a national leader, and hopes to be our PM, it is fair taht the nation expects from her and when she disappoints critiques her. I recall that she was widely applauded on thsi very forum when for a couple of days she had talked about restoring judges and of having severed all connections with Musharaf. So, its not a fanatical oppossition to BB taht guides many of us but a response to her stance.
tipu
@ Pejamistry…
thanks…
you are right, you haven’t yet convinced me…but we can agree to disagree on this point…
lets see how the events turn up…:)
ma salaam
Tipu
Confrontation or agitation is not the solution of the problem.But i think BB is playing her cards very cleverly.At one hand she is trying to unite the opposition for free and fair elections.She is not at the moment pressing for judiciary bcoz she know it is totally unacceptable for the musharaf and company and the country is not in the position of another military coup.
And secondly giving green signal to people like aitzaz ahson to unite the lawyers for pledging them to restore judiciary after the election thats why he planned that bus rally at the end of january after the election.
Bcoz she knew if they get get majority in the election they can easily amend the constitution for the restoration of the judiciary and if the election got rigged she along with other politicians will join that Bus rally with aitzaz and other lawyers for mass movement.
And for the people on the this forum who are criticizing BB,NS,Fazlu,Qazi and MQM should first make up their mind what they actually want bcoz by critisizing others u can gain nothing.You should actually give suggestions
or support any particular party.
Bcoz by the way we all r humans and humans make mistakes.
@tipu
“She undeniably has the power to bring a change - that is the raeson for expectation”.
===========================================
That sums up everything….so vote for PPP and with the 2/3 majority ppp will not only restore Judges…but will kick this mad General out as well……
GOOD Night everybody……..
@tipu,
Quote:
_________
Are we talking about same BB who said my CJ is Iftikhar Ch in islamabad. Who said that she wil l do long march. Then a visit by Negroponte and she stopped talking about Judiciary.
_________
The fact of the matter is that Paki judges are not angels. Most of the pre-PCO judges were in the pocket of Mush till March 9. They are all appointees of ISI. Mush made a mistake of sacking CJ and CJ took a bold step of refusing to resign. It was lawyers movement that mde judges bold and become party in the crisis. Lawyers movement is mainly led and organized by PPP lawyers like Senetor Khosa and Aitzaz Ahsan.
Most of the sacked judges are army appointed and are men of establishment. At this point they took a bold decision and must be admired. Are they p[oliticaly impartial? no, not at all.
I think the emphasis should be on ‘independent judiaciary’. sacked judges should be restored by new parliament. At the same time new parliament must ensure the impartiality of judges.
I am confident that BB and NS will join hand and make a anti-Mush alliance and hopefuly make aboycott decision purely based on ground realities. Mush is very weak now. I hope no one wouldlike to give him any relief. There is no point in asking for the restoration. New parliament can force that decision on Mush and can also send Mush home now.
@tipu
Thanks for your comments and good discussion. Let us not forget the real objective of this struggle.
1. Re-instatement of all the honourable judges.
2. Restoration of the fundamental rights of people of Pakistan guarded by an independant judiciary.
3. Release of all the missing persons.
I agree with Faisal Khan’s analysis. After elections Mush will need indemnity from parliament or new setup will not work. Zia and Mush both got indemnity for their high treason through constitutional amendment in 85 and 2002. This time Mush is much weak without uniform. He is under severe international pressure for fair elections. Any rigging will be difficult for him to defend.
Successful boycott of new judges by lawyers is enough presure to rstore judiaciary. BB or NS cannot ignore Lawyers community.
@saqibtahir
Your argument against the judges is a hard sell. Once these judges stood against their own “mentors” (in your words “the people who appointed them” ), they naturally become impartial. As far as being politically impartial is a meaningless term there is no one who is politically impartial. The judges job is to give verdict according to the law and once they have defied the pressure of mightiest , they have no reason to go against the law for thier personal likings or dislikings.
Musharraf on his Khaandan
We are Sayed and direct descendants of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH).
My Mum and Dad were professional dancers. They took part in a dance competition in ceremony to honour Queen Victoria in Turkey and won first prize.
My Mum can play harmonium. Apart from dancing, she sings very well and she has a melodious voice, which works like a magic spell on audience.
(Reference: In the line of fire)
nazir naji don’t need to worry, I don’t know about the composition of new parliament. But one thing is far sure, they will bring 18th amendment to validiate the ordres under PCO & thus closing the door for the deposed judges too.
The guys who are not in agreement now can’t agree in parliament too, using the same strategy.
Brilliant Piece,read it
Helping Pakistan
Friday, December 07, 2007
Samia Altaf
Pakistan, labeled the most dangerous country in the world, with loose nukes and angry jihadis, is unraveling. It needs help. To be helped it needs to be understood. Urging a transition to “true democracy,” after the fourth military dictator has suspended the constitution for the second time and sacked a judiciary that dared to question his legitimacy, betrays either naiveté or disinterest. Both will hurt in the long run, if there is a long run.
Understand that there has not been much difference between military and civilian rule in Pakistan. When unreal hopes are betrayed by one, the other is accorded a relieved welcome. Four painful cycles ought to be enough to make that clear. The pundits wringing their hands at the ills of dictatorship today are the same who saw huge silver linings when the fourth dictator, the “enlightened moderate,” came along to clean the democratic mess.
Understand that both dictators and democrats have attacked the judiciary in the same way, both have pandered to the religious fundamentalists in the same way, both have harassed political opponents in the same way, both have enriched themselves in the same way.
Understand why this is so. Understand that the vast majority of the 160 million people have gained nothing since they were “liberated”– not from those who founded the country, not from the democrats, not from the dictators, not from the priests. Half of them are still illiterate, a third are below the poverty line, many still die from the lack of clean water, and many still live in another century. Any surprise they are not active participants in the struggle for “true democracy?”
Understand that the forgotten have no expectations of political equality or fundamental rights from their rulers, be they dictators or democrats. No political party has bothered to make that the central thrust of its campaign and one that did in the past only abused it cynically. All the leading democrats are ever ready to ditch the aspirations of their supporters and cut a deal with the dictator of the day. It is an easier route to the top.
Understand that in a deeply unequal society without individual rights, and with extreme dependence of the many on the few, the functions of political representation and social protection are inseparable. Understand that the natural state of such a society is one of patronage. Understand that the unprotected and powerless are as rational as anyone else– when forced to participate in an electoral game, they vote for the most powerful patron with the strongest links to the ruler. Understand that the preyed upon want their protectors to be on the winning side first and represent their political ideology second. Ideological somersaults and shifting loyalties matter but have to be accepted pragmatically in the real world that exists for them.
Count the number of political representatives who have been in every party that has ever ruled the country. Watch how high they hold their heads; watch how much they are sought after.
Understand this is still very much a monarchical society in which the ruler, in whatever garb, believes he rules by divine right Understand the culture in which every ruler, legitimate or illegitimate, begins to see visions of being anointed by the Almighty to “save the nation.” The more incompetent and unprepared the chosen one, the greater the proof of divine purpose. The third dictator (the “meek”) used to say, in so many words, with awe and humility: “Look at me, what is my worth? Would I be here were it not for the will of Allah?”
The leading prose writer of the country called such leaders “men without stature.” Calling them pygmies would have landed him in jail for abusive language. And why does the Almighty continue to find such pygmies? Because He is putting His chosen people to His severest test! Understand this is an environment rife with such fatalistic beliefs.
Understand this is a society at a stage of development where political parties are personal affinity groups with lifetime leaders — the leading democrat is chairperson for life of a party she inherited from her father. Understand this is a banana republic in which the “best” president and the most “appropriate” prime minister are determined not by the people but by meta-patrons abroad. Understand this is a place where a prime minister can be parachuted from above one day and be consigned to the doghouse the next. Understand this is system in which the king’s courtiers can switch loyalties any minute and have to be continuously bribed. Count the size of the cabinet; compare that to the output.
And, nary a protest from any side, nary a protest on any count.
So what does a transition to “true democracy” mean in a situation like this?
Understand that representative democracy is not going to emerge any time soon by pressure from below. Democracy will be the name given to a sharing of power amongst the elites holding the wealth, the guns, and the controls over rules and rituals. Barring anything different, this democracy will go the way of previous democracies, each morphing from “true” to “sham,” each leaving the country more wounded and vulnerable than before. Has this not been the story of the last sixty years?
How then can we get something out of the elite democracy that we will inevitably inherit? Not by imagining a battle won, not by wishing for some ideal unfettered democracy, but by working towards a system of some checks and balances that limits the accumulation of power and the abuse of office by ruling groups, a system that advances human rights and access to justice, and one that enlarges the space for hearing the voices from below.
By some quirk, this was a scenario beginning to unfold with the assertion of independence by the judiciary, by its questioning of arbitrary executive authority, by its taking up the causes of ordinary citizens. This was the first institutional development in over sixty years that promised a meaningful step towards good governance in the interest of the ordinary citizens. And even before one could be sure it was for real, the fourth dictator (the “enlightened”) smothered it, quickly and ruthlessly, risking even his carefully varnished image of moderation in the process.
De Tocqueville said it long ago: “Unable to do without judges, it [the government] likes at least to choose the judges itself and always to keep them under its hand; that is to say, it puts an appearance of justice, rather than justice itself, between the government and the private person.” Pakistanis know why. Governance in Pakistan is allergic to accountability. Pakistanis know now what has to change.
So, going back to “free and fair” elections, back to “true democracy,” as promised by a dictator, ruling under an emergency, to a bunch of democrats ready to cut a deal, is not going to do much good. It will be very old wine in very old bottles. Well-wishers of Pakistan, at home and abroad, need to grasp the one promising development in an otherwise sorry history. They have to agree on a one-point agenda–the Supreme Court has to be restored; the independence of the judiciary has to be guaranteed. This is the only leverage we have at the moment, the one issue on which a broad coalition can unite. This is where the fight for “true democracy” begins. Whosoever is next anointed by God would need to be put to this test of sincerity. Otherwise, the moment and the opening would be lost. Those who are fighting would need to go on fighting.
This unpublished appeal, addressed to friends of Pakistan, at home and abroad, is dedicated to the students at the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS).
The writer is 2007-2008 Pakistan Scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars in Washington, DC.
@Saqibtahir,
Elections will be rigged and there is no question about it. One of the indicators of rigging was when the so-called “impartial” EC had accepted Mush’s papers for the candidacy. Then the same “impartial” EC just rejected nomination papers of NS and SS because their opponent had filed objections to their nominations. Just so that you know that I am not a supporter of either NS or SS. So, the rigging has already started. Why would Mush want the oppositon to get heavy mandate in the parliment when he knows that if that happens his days will be numbered. He is not a dumb person and I am very positive that he already has everything planned for different scenarios. If PPP boycotts the elections then it does not matter if JUI-F competes because the elections will have no value.
Pre- Poll Rigging has started
According to reports, cable operators in Lahore are running a 10 minutes advertisement that has pictures of Mush and Chaudharies.
These frequent ads are being sponsored/funded by City Government Lahore. Strangely, the ads don’t hide the fact and proudly mention at the end. Maybe people at City government are making their jobs secure in future set up.
Joke of Today:
Mush says that Kala Bagh Dam is inevitable for Pakistan and I will build it when the time is right (This Dam requires 7 - 10 years to build)!!!
Kami,
Khwaja Asif of PMLN put it best when hes said:
“The present rulers have made the people ‘dams fool’ because they try to create issues.”
This is Musharrf’s favorite trick, whenever in trouble raise the issue of Kalabagh dam.
http://free-pakistan.blogspot.com/search/label/Khwaja%20Asif
@ amm
The article is a classic one.
Salam Everyone!
I salute the students in Islamabad! They are the future flag-carriers of this country and they are awakening from decades long slumber!
As for BB and Fazlu, both (along with other politicians) should be hanged!
Take the case of China, where they hang Government officials who are involved in corruption and bribery.
@kami and asif
Re: http://jang.com.pk/jang/dec2007-daily/07-12-2007/col2.htm
What Naji is saying “When r@pe is inevitabe, relax and enjoy”.
I can feel pity for Naji and all the other idi0ts who do not know how to stand up for principles.
I sometime wonder how these guys live with them selves. May be by living in a corrupt society just numb our senses?
WHAT A LIFE FOR THIS POLITICIAN, THEY JUST WANT SEAT AND MONEY. THIS PEOPLE LIKE BENAZIR AND ZARDARI NEED TO BE HANG FOR THEIR PREVIOUS CRIME.
BB has left for dubai. aaj news
She wants to take time out.
guyz this is a very important visit, if zardari accompanies her on her return than its certain that she has been assured that she will have full support of the establishment and the other important thing is the timing of the visit. Why is she going now?
Zardari’s extra-curricular activities were getting out of hand, so she had to go.
@ admin , just like wasi zafar’s phone call interview , can u arrange maulana fazluu’s interview .
koshish ker loo yaar.
@ KGB
I guess its the other way around may be zardari was concerned about BB’s feelings towards Fazl bhai, Zardari might be demanding an explanation.
both r jhootay and corrupt
Benazir Deserts Pakistan Again
================
Benazir had fled Pakistan again without finalizing charter of demands. Her stance is:
1) Deadline in charter of demands should be AFTER the elections. What good is that?
2) No restoration of judges. She can’t afford it or else NRO is gone.
BB is insulting the intelligence of every Pakistani.
@dmin
I think begging for votes by ones party on this site is highly unacceptable. Is this site a platform for running campaigns. This person ‘listen’ has been begging in every post to vote for his party. And that too forcing people as if we are illiterate, ignorant and dumb hari’s of his leader’s constituency. people should feel the difference between a hari from a village, who doesn’t know who himself is,what is he casting vote for? I suppose most of the people are quite learned over here and begging to them is simply an insulting attitude. I thought such acts need be moderated by the site.
One has all the right to convince people about his party (or his choice of party) through arguments or may reveal that people will vote for his party, but I think forcig and begging people is simply disgusting.
First things first:
@ Ali Khan
Thanks for taking the discussion to a pathetic turning from the very start. Women cannot rule!! Thanks for your semi literate, pseudo Islamic and half baked fatwa regarding rule of women. Please spare us from this crap. Its a pretty long debate and one in which I can bring forth enough evidences and proofs to clarify your concepts but thats a separate dicussion. It would suffice to say that read some good commentaries of Quran and some nice books on Islam before giving such sweeping statements. I recommend Struggling to Surrender by Jeffrey Lang (an American convert to Islam). A very nice book and tackles this subject as well among other controversial topics.
@ All
However, this does not change the fact that Benazir is acting like the most opportunist of politicians that ever existed. All along her party has been ranting about 17th amendment and accusing PML-N of befriending MMA and making it the cause of splitting up (or making ineffective) ARD and now this woman has the nerve to do seat adjustments with Fazlu, of all the people. And look at Fazlu, with his vociferous claims of been “religious”, he is willing to ally with a left wing party. No rules, no morals, no standards, nothing do these guys have. Party policies don’t matter, party manifesto doesno’t matter. All that matters is how can they come in the goverment. Politicians like these two are utter disgrace to humanity.
@Kruman
Great quote
“I respect the military as much as they respect the constitution”, Khwaja Asif PML(N)
@zenith,
It’s not about Zardari. She has fled when she needed to finalize the charter of demands.
It is high time that Fatima Bhutto enters politics and assumes the mantle of PPP leadership.
Don’t you people think that the deal is all done between BB and Mush, and all the comments exchanged between them were fire works to show the audience something is going on.
Now you can observe the steady state. She is pretty sure of herself becoming the prime minister. Changing of stances and taking u-turns (as predicted by one of the visitor’s of this site) are her permanent habits hard to change. I wish she now gives an anti-Pakistan statement then take a U-turn so that it could be good for Pakistan. But I know this will never happen. It is always other way round. I wonder with her current stance, jiyaalas will still stand by her, or she could win… Oh yes … D E A L.
Tanweer,
There are no more “jiyalas”. They’ve been replaced by “dallas of BB
PPP is ideologically dead. As Fatima Bhutto said it is Pervez Peoples Party now.
Tanweer,
That speech from Khwaja Asif is a real gem. It is filled with quotable statements:
“I, on floor of the House, announce a rebellion (Baghawat) to secure my rights usurped by these military generals, and the time is not far away when the masses will stand up to snatch their rights and put hands on the generals’ necks.�
http://free-pakistan.blogspot.com/2007/08/i-respect-military-as-much-as-they.html
@Kami##
There is no doubt that Nazir Naji is Musharraf agent because he is worried why PCO is not going to be given protection in next assembly.
What does he want@ every time a mad general comes and rips the constitution and then we take years to repair it for his own sake.
How long this Pakistan would cater to the needs of one person - We didnt make Pakistan for these generals. Half the country they have already lost, they have given up Kashmir, Tribal Areas are gone and now Swat is up in arms - the whole country is in choas -
It is time to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Kami I believe that we should start with these pseudo journalists first who are on payroll of these dictators and these guys are so ashamed that they come again and again writing teh same thing. In logon ka zamir to mar chuka hai.
Kami u are right - first we have to get rid our society of such Mir Jafars.
Fatima Bhutto is also not an angel - Her mother is busy meeting Arbab Raheem and she has also got support of Q league. Shame on her - if thats the way you conduct your politics we dont need you shameless sellers of conscience.
Just by studying in institutions abroad because you can affort it - doesnt mean you have become superior also in thinking.
Fatima and Ghina only want one thing - they want revenge - they would be ready to make a deal with devil also to achieve that.
Please note I am not supporting BB - never - but such people are also not good who for their own ends go and sit in teh la@ps of criminals like Arbab Rahim
clhussain, Kami and others,
Write to jang and tell them you’ll stop purchasing the paper if they give space to morons like Naji.
One of the main contribution of this crisis is that we have shed our blind associations with any one. Most of us are standing for principals. So now if some one will come and talk about a blind support about any leader, ANY leader, i will be very disappointed.
@saqibtahir
So Let’s ask ourselves a question. what if this news turn to be right? Will you then stop following your current leader blindly?
@Listen
After reading all the replies, the best thing to do is to not reply to you. However, I will not do the best thing.
You wrote:
- Vote PPP….I will and have been for the last 15 years
- we r quite confident that ouyr leader will do the best for the coutnry
This does not sounds liek having a confidence in a leader, rather this sounds as blind faith … and you should not be proud of that. Would you like to question yourself that why is that BB is life-time chairperson for the PPP. is this democratic attitude? I am just not able to understand that why democratic minded people in PPP don’t ask this question to themselves. [Why Atizaz Ahsan does not ask this question?]
Moreover, you said: “i am sure when she will get the 2/3 majority she will peacfully bring those judges back”. My question is that if she did not, would that be enough for you to stop following her blindly? Or otherwise, you will show ‘confidence’ in your leader and keep following her like a slave.
Finally, I am amazed that how few people think that Musharraf’s taking off his uniform is due to BB’s effort. Have we closed our minds?
Well, if we just want to make any claim, any random claim but without any proof, then I would say that he took off his uniform due to the efforts of a 4-year old boy, who lives in Lalamusa.
raza
@Kruman
We dont need Fatima Bhutto - let her be in politics for another ten years - work hard and then we would see how she is doing. We should stop giving these women everything on silver platter. Just by writing a few articles in newspapers doesnt make them genious.
I was very annoyed when I read that Ghinwa has met Arbab Rahim and is getting support of Q league. If she had any sense of ground realieties she should have supported IK and APDM but for her is that seat in Larkana which I am sure she is never going to get.
And her daughter is also like that - her only aim is get at her aunt - but beyond that she wants power and for that she like her mother is also ready to make a deal.
Calling PPP as Pervez Peoples Party - I want to ask her what was her mother doing with criminal like Arbab Rahim
@kruman
Jang editorials are pathetic. They toe the government line. Where to write to show the disappoval.
Also, from where to get the emails of Ershad Ahmed Haqqani and Khurshid Nadeem. Both have disappointed me.
raza
http://www.dawn.com/2007/12/07/top14.htm
corruption in Pakistan
Should we call Fatima Bhutto PPP as PPP (Shaheed Bhutto - Jeay Arbab Rahim)
IMRAN KHAN 100% fair with Pakistan
NS 70% now b4 40%
BN 10%0% now b4 30%
Qazi 90% now b4 80%
Fazl-ur-Rahman 5% now b4 10%
(depends on Diesel price)
@ admin
allah will save dear land from mullah andv corrupt lady.we must be shamed that our RULIG LADY AND MAN BOTH WILL BE CORRUPT UNDER UMBRELLA OF DICATORSHIP
LIVE LONG JUSTICE IFTKHAR
NS should stop negogiating with BB because he is wasting his time - that woman is in no mood to get the judicary restored under any circumstances. She just wants power and nothing else. Thats why she is dealing with FAzlu and group to get the seats.
Shame on her.
Also Daily Times reported today that British High Commissioner in Islamabad has been quoted as saying that they did not support restoration of judicary because that is not going to happen under any circumstances and we should move on and look to the future.
I believe we should all condemn this statement and should socially boycott these american and british diplomats outrightly. Shame on them.
Yesterday NS yet again made the move to reach honourable Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry.
I wonder why a proper call was not made in Rawalpindi and Islamabad. Mostly people would support any act which could aid in the restoration of judiciary. I wished there should have been taxis and suzukis romaing all around in the cities shouting to move to Islamabad and get the judiciary restored. Seeing the reception in Rawalpindi Airport and Mansehra region, they should have planned.
May be they are checking the response at this moment and then act afterwards…Benefit of Doubt… I wish the momentum builds up.
Finally the most respectable BiBi found her Pimp .
Shame of Bibi for letting down the Name of her Father …
Better call her “Benazir Fazlu” insted of “Benazir Bhutoo”…
Saudi Ambasador met CJ Iftikhar and offered him to do Haj. This is a big conspiracy again by Mush and Saudi. Once CJ reaches Saudia, he will not be allowed to come back.We hope CJ understands this conspiracy and does not get involved in this
After reading some very interesting comments on ‘pkpolitics’ I could not stop myself from participating at this forum. These discussions reflect the extent to which people are politically aware about the prevailing situation in Pakistan. After reviewing some of the comments following questions came to my mind which are, though related to future and therefore some of us might think them premature, but I believe they are equally important. For example:
Would removal of Mush (through street protest or by any other means) mean end of Army influence in Pakistani politics?
Would BB&NS join hands to bring desired reforms in the constitution including elimination of 58(2b), reinstatement of sacked judges under PCO, freedom of media, liberating the country from imperial influences i.e. US, IMF, WB etc.? (Here I mean post mush removal period and after free, fair and transparent polls. I said NS&BB, because relying on the results of previous polls and current political trend in the country it seems that as a result of fair and transparent polls these two parties will take the majority of seats. I can’t predict 1st and 2nd positions but yet I am sure these two will be leading parties)
OR
A military general would take over, conduct elections in 90 days, which would be 80% fair and transparent and hand over power to a newly elected (hung) parliament and wait and see how long that government/parliament takes to become corrupt, at least in public perception and consequently downturn in peoples’ hatred and protest against the army rule. So they could take over with people of Pakistan distributing sweets, putting bhangra and chanting the slogan Long Live Pakistan Army - on the demise of democracy in the country.
What do you guys think? Please share your views as it would help me to see future with hope or may be with despair.
Dervesh Ali
@concerned pakistani,
Last night I just read this column of Irfan Siddiqi.
http://nawaiwaqt.com.pk/urdu/daily/dec-2007/07/columns1.php
for long time I could not understand what he has written. And after this news I see the reason behind this column.
Saudis are after us.
NAZIR NAGI,IRSHAD HAQANI AND KHURSHAD AHMED ,the daily jung columnists(in cluding the jung group as a whole) are not agents of Mushraf but are the agents of ALAMI SAMRAJ or INERNATIONAL GUNDA MAFIA .
The pictures, which one is Benazir and which one is Fazlu the Maulana?
@Dervaish
Stupid question. Can’t you see the one with turban on her head is BB.
@peja
Can you see the sarcasm in Devaish’s post?..
Dervaish bhai, that is a good one!!
@concerned pakistani
Actually I thought it was the most disgusting thing I had ever heard: The Saudi Ambassador was using Hajj as a bribe; no two ways about it.
I was thinking the same
Another interesting thing is that in yesterdays meeting with Nawaz, he told him straight forward that he, NS, must take part in elections and work with Mush for the betterment of Pakistan.
Wish Nawaz would have said “Right after the elections in Saudi Arabia!” Am I asking too much of Nawaz? Well, I guess he is no Rafael Correa and we are weaker then Ecuador…
@sohail
you missed mine too.
turban = pagri or amama not doputa
Irfan siddique is not an analyst hes just good one to hype up any case, a second version of nazir naaji.
Hes very good at playing with the nerves of the people by using the spin doctrine.
As I have already pointed out just before the BB-NS meeting, he was saying that anyone who would participate in elections is “Kaali Bhairain” & after the meeting the otherway around.
I think he is another addition in “Suthiyya Group”
@pejamistri
Asal america hay, yeh sab saudi pakistani amrica kay pithoo hain.
Are Saudi playing some game?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/12/071207_cj_saudienvoy_rh.shtml
I hope not.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/avconsole/bb_wm_fs.shtml?redirect=fs.shtml&lang=ur&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&ms3=22&ms_javascript=true&ws_pathtostory=http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/wsindex/int/av/urdu/-/urdu/news/avfile/2007/12/&ws_storyid=071206_multanlawyers&bbcws=2
The lawyers of multan doing lathi charge on police, very very bold move & expect it on 8th of Jan too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_tv
A comparative Good News,
BB’s nomination papers has been chanllanged at Larkana as she was convicted by NAB. If her paper got rejected then she will request NS to boycott the election.
Lets see what happens.
0% chance that BB papers are rejected.
GEO’s Dubious Funding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_tv
Justice Wajihuddin has been evicted to karachi. Government is now getting afraid of him, he is keeping the lawyers motivated and filling the gap of Aitzaz Ahsan , Ali Ahmed Kurd and Justice Tariq Mehmood.
I am worried why Hamid Ali Khan is not in the news , anybody have any information what he is doing these days?
I Pray for the CJ Iftikhar Chaudary to remain stead fast on his stand for the rule of the law irespective of the GEO-Political considerations and on the belief that no personality or group whatso ever is essential for the country ,the ONLY ,ONLY ything essential for a country or society to exist for the betterment of her people and for betternment of the internaional community is the RULE OF LAW applied in the same spirit as Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said that if her dauhter fatima is found guilty he would punish her according to rule of law and he further stated that previous nations were destroyed by God because they punish if poor commit crime but give relief if people in power or thier associartes commits similiar crime.Also remeber a sayinf from hazart ali that a society based on kufat can sustain but a society based on ZULUM can not sustain
@M Khan
Like I said above, they are trying to use the Hajj as a bribe to lure him to Saudi Arabia. If he bites, I am sure they will “convince” him to stay and use it to kill the lawyers/civil society movement…
@samir
Either you have done the edit yourself. Or you you are just too stupid. Did you notice that funding did not appear till yesterday. There is no references for funding.
I would hope if some one is an active user, and remove that stupid paragraph on wikipedia
I edited lol man i am not the owner of wiki..
@sameer
Right :), if you did not edit, then the other option for you was being too dumb to understand that anybody can edit it.
So take a look now.
I feel sorry for the students and lawyers who are protesting because all this effort will go to waste.
If BB and NS don’t take part in elections then mush’s team will win big time and there is no coming back for 5 years. If they do take part then they are in a way giving legitimacy to mush’s actions. Also after they get into parliament the issue of judges will get less priority and forming alliances will be more important.
Saudi Ambassador has met with Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry and according to the sources - bbc - have tried to convince him to come to Saudi Arabia.
Have Saudis gone mad? They must be joking? They want that any person who is truly a legitimate person should be pushed to SA.
brits will never suppose reinstatement of judges as brits and americans do not beleive in the supremacy of law or democracy beyond their own geographical territories. Beyond that they only care for their interest which is based on insitiable greed for power and control. Hence it is utterly nonsense to have any expectation from these imperial powers. I therefore agree with clhussain that we should condemn these powers. But this does not mean that we should detach ourselves from the civil societies in these countries as they are supporting the struggle of pakistani people against the local and imperial tyranny.
Can the owner of this blog please get in touch with me at naitazi at gmail ? Thanks
Geo dubious funding.
This is the most ridiculous proposition I have ever heard. What Geo is showing is mainly Anti American and people are not stupid to realise what is right and w