ایک امریکی پادری سے مشکل سوالات

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ایک امریکی پادری سے مشکل سوالات

(43 posts)

toamin
member

Posted 1 year ago on 24 Apr 2011 8:26 #
toamin
member

بنیادی سوالوں کا ہی جواب نہیں دے سکتے

Posted 1 year ago on 24 Apr 2011 10:28 #
toamin
member

جی؟

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Apr 2011 8:21 #
LifeH2O
Member

This is not the fault of being Christian. Our Molvi would have surely given stupid answers if asked logical questions like above video.
The temperament of that long haired christian is really admirable when compared to our Molvi.
Ask him questions like that and he will tell you who you are.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 16:34 #
toamin
member

well lifeh2o you missed the content and focused on something that is not so important

i think we can't compare apple with an orange-

something that is really offending in one country might be something light in another country, so can't just compare molvie with gora padri

those who have lived abroad know this when they visit pakistan and they are going furious while other person is like 'what happened man'?

i think that gora padri's behaviour is worst than a molvie if you use relative measurements

Posted 11 months ago on 25 Jun 2011 15:23 #
Not Possible
Blocked

padri maolvi all the same

extremists pursue self intrest not religion

Posted 11 months ago on 26 Jun 2011 7:31 #
toamin
member

گفتگو اچھی تھی

جہاں تک ہم لوگوں کی بات ہے تو ہم نے کہاں وقت لگا کر اس گفتگو کو سننا ہے، ہم تو سنی سنائی پر ہی جواب دے دیتے ہیں

Posted 11 months ago on 26 Jun 2011 8:05 #
LifeH2O
Member

I have no idea about 'paadris' abroad.
The person was *openly* asking questions about God and Jesus.
Try asking that kind of questions about Prophet and Allah to a Molvi, you know what kind of response you will get.
A Molvi with a better temperament will ignore.
A Molvi with some thinkable brain will try to satisfy you reasonably.
I like doctor Zaakir nike only because he allow all kind of question and try to answer and satisfy at his best.

Shia molvis are bit better then others, other then same emotional answers revolving around 'panjtan paak' they do have a better temperament and answer more logically.

Posted 10 months ago on 01 Jul 2011 15:57 #
toamin
member

right, so can't compare apple with oranges, the guys in video's behaviour according to established standards in their society is bad

have you ever met a knowledgeable scholar and asked questions or this is just your assumption?

so plz pick appropriate objects & references and then compare

Posted 10 months ago on 03 Jul 2011 8:14 #
LifeH2O
Member

@salam
I have compared molvi to molvi, asker to asker, don't know how it is apple vs orange.
Sorry if I am still missing your point.

I haven't asked questions to a "scholar", but I surely have experience of asking question to a molvi.
if that christian don't know/have/believe any law to kill ex-christian or non-christian, he is better than our molvi. End of the story, because I'll have no fear of getting killed by asking such harsh questions.

Posted 10 months ago on 04 Jul 2011 19:37 #
shafiq12
member

if that christian don't know/have/believe any law to kill ex-christian or non-christian, he is better than our molvi. End of the story,

Lifeh20 i am sure you believe in Quran..... How can a person who associates partner with God, be better than a person who doesn't associate?.... Please answer this question in accordance to your belief in Quran..... I mean try to answer my question with help of Quran..... As you believe in Quran

Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 8:19 #
LifeH2O
Member

For me if you are a good person, I will not consider your religion.
But if you are bad, and you still insist that your beliefs and your faith is better than anyone, you are still a bad guy.

Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 21:23 #
LifeH2O
Member

Further more, as you said about associating a partner as shirk.
Please define shirk in muslim context too.
Because if we too associate partners with him. We.define profits or aulias etc as if they were God.
If those 'muslims' and christians are the same, still comparison will be on their kind or unkind behaviour.

Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 21:35 #
shafiq12
member

Lifeh20

From past discussions, i have learned you believe in Quran..... Right.... .... I ain't asking you to explain your freethinking.... I am saying as you have a belief in Quran.... According to this belief please explain what you said

For me if you are a good person, I will not consider your religion.

I hope you get the point..... Don't be hypocrite ( i am sorry to say).... If you don't have belief in quran... that's another story..... Please explain according to quran.... How a non believer could be better than a believer.....

Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 5:00 #
LifeH2O
Member

2:62

Yusuf Ali: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Zohurul Hoque: Surely as to those who believe, and those who Judaize, and the Christians, and the Sabians- whoever believes in Allah and the Future Day, and does good,- for such, then, their reward is in the presence of their Rabb; and there is no fear on them, nor will they grieve.

T. J. Irving: Those who believe and those who are Jews, Christians and Sabeans, [in fact] anyone who believes in God and the Last Day, and acts honorably will receive their earnings from their Lord: no fear will lie upon them nor need they feel saddened.

T.U. Hilali-M. Khan: Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

M. Pickthall: Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

M.H. Shakir: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

http://www.qurantoday.com/BaqSec8.htm

also 5:69 is same
http://quran.com/5/69

Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 15:37 #
LifeH2O
Member

Would you like to prove that "How a 'believer' could be better than a 'non believer'..... "

Moreover, saying that christian molvi better than our's is based on my personal evaluation critera. Everyone do it differently, you are free to judge people by their religion ignoring their acts.

Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 15:46 #
Faarigh Jazbati
member

Dear LifeH20

you should also read this

Al-Bayyina
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them, (1) A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages (2) Containing correct scriptures. (3) Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them. (4) And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion. (5) Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. (6) (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings. (7) Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden underneath which rivers flow, wherein they dwell for ever. Allah hath pleasure in them and they have pleasure in Him. This is (in store) for him who feareth his Lord. (8)

Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 15:49 #
LifeH2O
Member

@fj_pak
Ok, can you please answer this and this

Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 16:01 #
LifeH2O
Member

What kind of relation, behaviour, contact and other life matters one should have with the worst of created beings. ???

Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 22:55 #
shafiq12
member

Lifeh20 The verses say nothing about--- athiest/agnostic/communist..... If a agnostic/athesit is better than christian/jew/muslim/sabian..... do you give preference to jew/muslim/christian because of your belief...... Lifeh20 give answer in accordance with quran or say.... You only use quran where it matches with your freethinking? See it is pure hypocrisy, using quran for your objective where it matches with your hypothesis...

Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 5:02 #
LifeH2O
Member

Calling me a hypocrite, very usual term in f&r category.
I agreed to that after fj_pak given the reference of ayat which says 'they are worst of the beings.'

But that raised some other questions which I asked above, try answering them.

Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 10:45 #
shafiq12
member

i didn't call you hypocrite.... I have shown what is hypocrisy.... If you think yourself hypocrite that's not my problem. Now come to you question.....

Would you like to prove that "How a 'believer' could be better than a 'non believer'.....

if you believe in quran.... then there are several verses which show believer are better than non-believer....... My question are directly related to your belief in quran.... If you don't believe in quran than i won't hit you like this way ;)

Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 11:27 #
LifeH2O
Member

You don't get it, I left my question/point of better or not better after reading the verse of Al-Bayyinah.

And I got newer questions, (see two of my posts below fj_pak)
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/ایک-امریکی-پادری-سے-مشکل-سوالات#post-250163
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/ایک-امریکی-پادری-سے-مشکل-سوالات#post-250163

Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 12:08 #
NNL
member

Life
please expalin the following ayah

3:85

Sahih International
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

Muhsin Khan
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

Pickthall
And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

Yusuf Ali
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

Shakir
And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Dr. Ghali
And whoever inequitably seeks for himself as a religion other than Islam, then it will never be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter (he) will be among the losers.

Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 19:09 #
LifeH2O
Member

I can not explain, please you explain it.
It looks like a contradictoory verse to the verse that I posted

Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 19:24 #
NNL
member

no you posted an Ayah regarding the belief of the Jews and Christians and them being the saved ones by quoting the Ayah right ?

So i quote you another verse which says if you dont follow Islam then you are a loser.

So you tell me who is right ?

Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 19:28 #
LifeH2O
Member

I am unable to explain, thats why I am asking.

Posted 10 months ago on 09 Jul 2011 9:15 #
NNL
member

the answer is very simple.

There is no contradiction in Islam.

If you cant understand something it means either you dont have the full knowledge about it and u are getting confused or Allaah Azza wa Jal is choosing to keep you away from His Religion.

The Ayah that you have quoted came first and then this Ayah was Revealed. They both go hand in hand.

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 18:53 #
wazirabadi
Member

سُوْرَةُ الْبَقَرَة
اللہ کے نام سے جو رحمان و رحیم ہے۔
الف،لام،میم۔یہ اللہ کی کتاب ہے ،اس میں کوئی شک نہیں ہے۔ہدایت ہے اُن پرہیزگاروں کےلئے جو غیب پر ایمان لاتےہیں،نماز قائم کرتے ہیں،جو رزق ہم نے اُن کو دیا ہے ،اس میں سے خرچ کرتے ہیں، جو کتاب تم پر نازل کی گئی ہے ﴿یعنی قرآن﴾ اور جو کتابیں تم سے پہلے نازل کی گئی تھیں ان سب پر ایمان لاتےہیں، اور آخرت پر یقین رکھتے ہیں، ایسے لوگ اپنے رب کی طرف سے راہ راست پر ہیں اور وہی فلاح پانے والے ہیں۔ جن لوگوں نے﴿ان باتوں کو تسلیم کرنے سے﴾ انکار کر دیا،اُن کے لئے یکساں ہے،خواہ تم انہیں خبردار کرویا نہ کرو،بہر حال وہ ماننے والےنہیں۔اللہ نے اُن کے دلوں اور ان کے کانوں پر مُہرلگادی ہے اور ان کی آنکھوں پر پردہ پڑگیاہے۔وہ سخت سزا کے مستحق ہیں ۔ ؏١

Posted 10 months ago on 15 Jul 2011 1:17 #
Aadmi
Member

So is faith the primary criteria by which a human will be judged ? Isn't a believer and a non-believer equal in a Shariah court. Or is a believer let go with a softer sentence ? If our Shariah court doesn't discriminate on religious basis, how can the Almighty's meezaan be biased towards a certain sect. Isn't that similar to what the Jew and Christians preach, that irrespective of their deeds, they are bound to end up in Heaven while everyone else, no matter what their deeds are, will burn in hell for eternity.

Believing isn't simply about reciting the kalma. Unconditional love and dedication to the Creator and His creation are all part and parcel of believing.

Posted 9 months ago on 02 Aug 2011 5:32 #
LifeH2O
Member

" Isn't that similar to what the Jew and Christians preach, that irrespective of their deeds, they are bound to end up in Heaven while everyone else, no matter what their deeds are, will burn in hell for eternity."

I think this is also told in Surah Al-Baqarah that what they think that they will get only small punishment for doing all sins and in the end they will goto heaven because they are the loved ones of God

Posted 9 months ago on 02 Aug 2011 20:24 #
NNL
member

Life Could you post the relevant ayah ?

Posted 9 months ago on 02 Aug 2011 22:38 #
NNL
member

Adami

Unconditional love and dedication to the Creator and His creation are all part and parcel of believing.

Is there any evidence to this or is this your interpretation ?

Posted 9 months ago on 02 Aug 2011 22:46 #
Aadmi
Member

Which part is suspect here. Love for the Creator or love for His creation ?

Posted 9 months ago on 03 Aug 2011 11:46 #
LifeH2O
Member

@NNL
I was referring to this ayah http://quran.com/2/80

اور کہتے ہیں کہ (دوزخ کی) آگ ہمیں چند روز کے سوا چھو ہی نہیں سکے گی۔ ان سے پوچھو، کیا تم نے خدا سے اقرار لے رکھا ہے کہ خدا اپنے اقرار کے خلاف نہیں کرے گا۔ (نہیں)، بلکہ تم خدا کے بارے میں ایسی باتیں کہتے ہو جن کا تمہیں مطلق علم نہیں

I understood the meaning of first line as i told above.

Posted 9 months ago on 03 Aug 2011 13:16 #
NNL
member

@ Adami
Its not about being suspect. I have never heard of that statement before so i asked for reference or evidence.

Thats all.

@ Life
Absolutely true

Posted 9 months ago on 03 Aug 2011 16:50 #
Aadmi
Member

Brother NNL,

Surah Al-Imran (3:191) refers to believers as "Who remember Allah while standing or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth,".

Then Surah Al-Muddaththir asks believers "Be patient for the sake of your Lord”.

Surah Imran mentions believers as "Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity or in adversity, who restrain (their) anger and pardon (all) men ".

Surah Al-Insan "And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive"

These are some of the verses in the Quran that teach unconditional love and affection for the Lord and His creation. At least that's how i look at them. You're welcome to have your opinion. And Allah knows best.

Posted 9 months ago on 04 Aug 2011 4:20 #
NNL
member

Again i m trying understand from the point of evidence. I dont need your opinion on this matter.

The religion wasnt revealed to you so please give the evidence from the one to whom the religion to. ie Is that explanation of the one to whom the religion was revealed to ? or the understanding of the Companions of the one the whom the religion

So again is that the explanation of Rasool Allaah Sallaho Alayhi wa Alaa Alayhi wa Sallam

Posted 9 months ago on 04 Aug 2011 5:52 #
NNL
member

ps

Feeding the orphans, captives is not unconiditional love.

And please tell how does one have unconditional love for the Lord ?
like what is unconditional love and what do you mean by it ?

Posted 9 months ago on 04 Aug 2011 6:10 #
Aadmi
Member

Brother NNL,

There are many things which the Prophet has not explained. If the Sunnah of the Prophet gives you the notion that his love for Humanity or the Lord was conditional i.e. there was a worldly motive behind it, then you're free to have your opinion.

Posted 9 months ago on 04 Aug 2011 8:35 #
NNL
member

Adami

There are many things which the Prophet has not explained

So are you saying that the Prophet left many things unexplained ie didnt do his job accurately ?

If the Sunnah of the Prophet gives you the notion that his love for Humanity or the Lord was conditional i.e. there was a worldly motive behind it,

I have never said anything of that sort. Where are you getting that from ?

I simply asked you a question. Love of Creator what sort of love are we talking about ? Is this Love explained by the Prophet ? Love for Humanity was it practiced by Prophet ? if so how and where and when ?

I have not given my opinions All i have done is asked you not to give your opinions but asked you to show to me where are you getting the love for creation and Creator theory and how ?

Its a simple question?

Posted 9 months ago on 04 Aug 2011 10:24 #
LifeH2O
Member

"There are many things which the Prophet has not explained"

A somewhat same statement is given as
'There are many things which the are not explained in Quran'

Will it mean that Allah left many things unexplained ie didnt do the job accurately?

Posted 9 months ago on 04 Aug 2011 13:48 #
NNL
member

i was hoping for answer for Adami

Posted 9 months ago on 08 Aug 2011 19:14 #