Just_one
Member
HAQKIAWAZ,
You moral argument has evaporated and now you have come down to power politics.
So you aren't liking Imran Khan for inducting one or two people in his party whom you call lota and badmash, while affiliating with a party which is full of lotas and badmash form top to bottom?
ajhons
Member
@abytude from your last post its evident that your a young university going fellow.
People are joing PTI so that they have a chance to have a photograph with Ik, to have chance to shake hands.They don't care about the structure only care about Ik.
Just like jiyalas don't care about the corruption of their leadeers just care about their leaders, just like mqm supportes don't care about allegation of target killings and bhatta khori and only care about altaf hussian.
بیٹا ایک گلاس دودھ پی کے سو جاؤ صبح یونیورسٹی بھی جانا ہے
Professionally speaking a good manager is not the one running around here and there to get things done.
Well then thats what you think. Imran is not a manager, hes a leader of people, not working for unilever heading supply chain.
It took MQM some two decades to reach this position
Which position? Where they still need to stamp bogus votes to win?
PTI office bearers should be doing this on back stage while IK is spreading their menifesto.The other senior members should visit different ares.hold small jalsas here and there
Right. And what makes you think this isnt happening? Do you think a jalsa of 15k people was organized in a place like Kot Addu just like that? Without any team working on it? Without the 2nd tier leaders going here and there?
Do you think the Azaadi rally in Lahore was a success just like that? Without anyone going here and there? =))
It seems other officer bearers are not putting the amount of efforts which IK is showing for PTI.
Well if it only seems to you, then you were irresponsible in criticism. You should have seeked clarification first. Only because it seemed to you doesnt mean you are right does it? "It was made to seem to them that Moses was crucified." Spot the word .. "seemed".?
Stop critisizing amd start socializing
Criticism .. wel you wouldnt put it that way. But you see this thread does not give us chat excerpts with ex N, or ex Q, or ex PPP office bearers. So this was criticism. We're only answering.
As I say, kal ko election ho jaey aur PTI 100 seats lay jaey, to automatically sab ko organization b dikhai day gee, leader bhi dikhayee dain ge, tanzeemain b dikhai dain gee. Its .. but natural =)
Just_one
Member
@ajhons
MQM has is an ethnic party, and people affiliate with it based on ethnicity. The ethnic minority groups who see themselves as separate from others usually organize themselves very strongly. See for example, Jews in America or even Muslims in certain European countries.
So I don't see MQM's political structure as genuinely political, stemming out of a political creed, but simply as an interest group based on ethnicity.
Comparing it with PTI is wrongheaded.
Secondly for organization you need funds. There is no political funding in Pakistan. Parties run on black money or through funding form dubious sources.
PTI's financial base are its supporters who contribute financially, mostly ex-pats.
It does not have huge resources.
However, ideologically, PTI is the only sound party in Pakistan and its message is spreading like wild fire.
Coming with empty rhetoric about doing this and that and advocating pessimism is something unreasonable.
Imran Khan does say that there is a long way to go but he also says that PTI IS HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
ajhons
Member
ڈیل بھائی، آپ ہی باتیں اس قسم کی باتوں سے ناقدین کو تحریک پے ہنسنے کا موقع نہیں ملتا .پھر آپ کہیں گے اجھونس پی ٹی ای کا مذاق اڑا رہا ہے
زیرے تحریر : ناقدین کی جگہ "نوٹا" بھی پڑھا جا سکتا ہے :)
@ajohns,
There you go, it again seems to you. I dont go to University. I am done. I am an IT pro, but in touch with a large section of youth through different initiatives.
Just_one
Member
@ajhons
You are absolutely wrong. Not speaking for abytude, I personally do not like cricket and I am not into being fan of a personality. My support for PTI and Imran Khan is simply because I genuinely see him as a solution to Pakistan's problems. I have come to this conclusion after observing Pakistani politics for sometime.
ajhons
Member
what about Jamat e Islami.What about PPP , what about PML(N)
these are not ethenic parties.And secondly why we found so many, punjabis, Pushtoon,Baloojis in MQM and why we fond so many Urdu speaking people in JI and PPP.
Since Ik said they are heading towards right direction that's why you believe you are heading in right direction.
Do u have outsourced your thinking responsibilities
@Nota,
Arshad Khan?
I am curious to know when you spoke with this guy? Because to be honest, I prefer not to talk about internal issues of PTI etc on this forum. I usually do this on Insaf.pk.
Yes, PTI has had this issue of building an organization but I can assure you this is PTI's priority right now. There is a proper strategy and plan in place. The crux of that plan is to spread PTI to each and every union council of Pakistan. You can see details of party structure at grass roots level here.
Now, regarding this guy's complains, there is no proof of them! Imran Khan is known to keep his commitments, he never cancels his appointments, you can ask any credible official of PTI.
Now this guy says he went to Imran with an idea? Are you kidding me? Do you think that is a proper way? Additional General Sec of PTI Saifullah Niazi is responsible for implementing idea of party structure and organization than why is he going to Imran Khan. PTI has had clearly defined the roles of it officials and they know where to go and what to do in case they have any grievances.
Currently, I am trying to organize PTI in my city and I am trying to contact PTI official here, Alhamdollilah I have got some good response but now let's imagine I start calling Imran Khan and try to share my ideas and he ignores me? Should I blame Imran Khan for that? Obviously NO. There are proper channels and protocols that one must follow.
We are getting better day by day in party organization and I am fully confident that we will be prepared for next elections. PTI's goal is to have at least 10 PTI reps present on each and every polling station of Pakistan. Our voter registration campaign is doing great, and we are strongly pursuing ECP to root out rigging as much as possible.
The biggest challenge faced by PTI is shortage of funds, I have posted our most recent financial statements many times on this forum for all to see. Recently, funding has gotten better as a result of effective campaigning in US, UK, Canada and Middle East and you can see PTI's has also gained strength as well. Last year's financial statements will be available by June/july this year.
All those allegations against Imran Khan are completely false, Imran is very strict on his personal discipline, he never cancels appointments and he would never ignore his party workers for a "work out". One big problem or a stigma with Imran is that he is a celebrity as well as a politician. When people join PTI they want to meet him, even a rag tag nobody who joins him wants to meet him? That's practically impossible.
I welcome construcive criticism from impartial bloggers i.e. Nota, Shirazi, Salam, FJ, ajhons, etc etc but toadies of other parties would get the treatment they deserve. Because those without sin should cast the first stone and supporter of MQM and PMLN are no saints, in fact one is a Criminal gang of ruthless thugs and other is a gang of hypocrites/industrialist who are hellbent on safeguarding their own interests.
Now, in my view, the biggest challenge faced by PTI is media management! PTI takes awfully long time to dispel any false allegations and propaganda which hurts our image. We have taken criticism in to consideration and the biggest one up until recently was the grass roots work and I can assure you that there is a strong grass roots campaign going on currently by PTI it's mostly in southern/central Punjab and KPK.
So all in all things are getting better and we are improving a lot and PTI of 2011 is not what it was in 2010.
ajhons
Member
Just_one
You have much sence in your commet.But brother, don't take me as some ignorant anti PTI big mouth.I have a very soft corner for IK.I like his leadership qualities and sincererity for his cause.I like him for his modren approach without loosing our own social obligations,
I was specificly refering to abytudes commets.Dear Brother just read again my previous comments from start and the compare it with what my little IT fellow's comments.
Does he really fight the PTI case well the way I did it for IK.
Just_one
Member
@ajhons
You said Imran Khan himself says that the party has a long way to go, and this you used as an argument against us. I replied to this that if Imran says that, he also says we are headed in the right direction. That was to refute your logic.
But of course, my independent analysis too convinces me that PTI is headed in the right direction.
Secondly, you should not argue that MQM isn't an ethnic party. This argument only suits a MQMer (or are you one?). They have symbolic faces of other ethnicities, but for all intents and purposes, they are an ethnic party. What is heir SUPPORT BASE?
I never said ALL Urdu-speaking affiliate with MQM. There are Muhajirs in PTI and that too from Karachi.
You mention PPP and PMLN, what organization they have? They are full of corrupt people and fuedals wining elections on the basis of rigging and thuggery.
Jamat-e-Islamic, I already explained. They use RELIGION to rally people. They use the existing infrastructure of Madrassa and mosque.
PTI does not rely on these cheap emotions, religion or ethnicity. Nor does it practice politics of corruption and feudalism. That makes its road harder comparatively.
Does he really fight the PTI case well the way I did it for IK
I wasnt fighting the PTI case. It again seemed to you.
Since our dear friend Nota had comments from an ex-PTI'an, I shared thoughts of scores of people who join PTI every day.
The point was that party organization was made to seem all gloom for PTI. I just reminded that PTI attracts youth for many other reasons.
Nota made the point that Khan distances from common folk for petty reasons like work out? I mentioned how youth could easily connect to Khan so much as to even have photographs with him.
You failed to spot the connection, atleast it seems so =)
ajhons
Member
There you go Dell Bhai.
That's what I wanted.Logical, comprehensive clear responce.Its good to hear what you are doing for PTI in your area and for PTI website.These are the fundamentals which may take some time but will definitly pays off.Its good to know that about your pooling stations strategy.How many candidates PTI is planning to introduced in coming elections.And what will be your more foucused constituencies.
Your approach is good that if every member start expecting IK to personally vist his house or his even his area then its unfair.But I think its may be because they are still unaware of other big officer bearers.Last night I saw Abkar Sheikh in Talat's progrmame before that he was on another channels.That's good really good.ANd he seems tobe a polite, humble fellow.Don't know much about his so far contribution for PTI.
اور تھوڑی بچوں کی تربیت پے بھی توجھ دیں
LoL::))
ajhons
Member
@abytude
I appologize if I fail to connect the dots.I hope you don't take my remarks as an insult or derogatory.
If you read Dell's commets you will know what you were missing in your replys and what I wasn't able to catch in your commnets.
No hardfeeling though.
آپ کی نیت پہ کسی طور شبھ نہیں تھا بس آپ کی توجیہات ہضم نہیں ہو رہی تھیں.امید ہے ہمارے ہاضمے کی کمزوری آپ کو گراں نہیں گزری ہو گے
.I hope you don't take my remarks as an insult or derogatory.
Well, you got what you were hoping for.
If you read Dell's commets you will know what you were missing in your replys and what I wasn't able to catch in your commnets.
Yes perhaps, but Nota's original post was directed towards Khan's personality and not towards the party organization or PTI laggings.
He implied that Khan had vanity issues, doesnt honor commitments, doesnt meet people etc.
I think when I said Khan went down under to meet a city chapter and excused the parliamentary briefing given by kayani and pasha only because his trip was planned earlier, I emphasized that Khan honors commitments.
I think when I said how anybody could go shake Khans hand and have photgraphs with him, it went onto show he had no vanity issues.
I seek your guidance nonetheless. Correct me where ever I may seem off track to you.=)
Abrar
ajhons
Member
جیتے رہیے. ابرار میاں
@ajhons
The problem on this forum is that many bloggers belong to different parties and they malign Imran khan and spread rumors so countering them is important!
The best response to below the belt punches is the kick right in the testies.
I appreciate constructive criticism which helps us get better and most of betterment in PTI has come from criticism from others. For example, people criticized us regularly for not having any reps in media other than Imran Khan so we came up with the list of spokesperson last year and it was sent to all major and local channels. But no channel invited any reps instead they invited Imran Khan, so recently on suggestions from PTI supporters etc PTI decided that Imran Khan would not appear on shows with other leadership, he has to be alone in the shows. So, channels were forced to invite people like Akbar Babar, Omar Cheema, Bukhtiar Qasuri etc.
You can view the list of PTI spokespersons here. Akbar Babar is a very addition to PTI media team, in fact he has been with PTI since 1997 I think.
Regarding Imran Khan and party organization, there is a clear cut plan. Organize the party at union councils and when union councils of 2 or 3 districts in a particular area are organized than hold a big Jalsa and invite Imran Khan. This has proven to be successful in South Punjab, Jhang, KPK etc. PTI's focus is on areas with concentrated population, under developed areas i.e S. Punjab, all parts of KPK, Hazara region, the whole GT road corridor, etc etc. We are not ignoring Sindh at all in fact Sindh is next on to do list, Naeem ul Haq was nominated as President Sindh and he has been working on it and has a clear instruction from CEC.
Organization and monitoring cell has been created in PTI which receives reports from District organizers and regional organizers on regular basis and O & M cell reports those progress reports to Imran Khan in turn.
ajhons
Member
That's really great and I sincerely hope for all the goodness of cause be with you and all others working for the noble change.
thankx for the list.Will get back in a moment
اور بھی غم ہیں زمانے میں پی کے پی کے سوا
::))
Hope you guys watched last night's Faisla Aap Ka -- April 16
;-)
scandinavian
Member
@Nota
Have you become a journalist?
A man with your analytical skills could have ripped apart the "source" in seconds. Why you didn't you ask the usual nasty questions to expose the "source"? Or was this an attempt to highlight PTI actions? ;)
@Nota
Yes, I saw it and I was impressed by the way Imran handled that "planted" PTI supporter. He is barely 20-22 years old and he said he was a founding member of ISF??
Also, did you hear him say Imran doesn't even know his name?
I know almost all ISF presidents, from Lahore, Peshwar, Abbotabad, Karachi, Quetta, Sialkot, Southern Punjab and I can assure you Imran knows them well and they are all very active!!
Its not entirely Imran Khan's fault that he has more involved himself on Celebrity stuff then a Politician its a period which Influenced him to be so......If someone remember when Parties like MQM, PPP, PML(A-Z) was formed their was less of opportunity to make an impact on Masses so they had to rely on their Local support and keeps on Strengthening that which bear them the Result but at the time of PTI it was Mass media era in Pakistan so Imran Khan is making a good use of what is available to him now a days......In the same way others are not able to compete with PTI on Mass media because they have been following old ways to get their supporters intact and to bring new ones as well.....So they lack behind in this field while PTI ack behind on Local support.....
Its all about PRIORITIES....PTI has set the priority to make grounds through mass media, MQM priority is to make grounds through its workers while PPP and PML(A-Z) have priority to make grounds through their Influential people in the Particular locality.....What is most Important is what RESULT it actually Generates....This would be Ultimate success or Failure story of PTI and others.....
@dell
BTW: I did hear him speak highly of "electronic voting" and was in fact demanding it. Do advise PTI not to have ANY faith in it....Tell 'em to watch the documentary "Hacking Democracy"...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7926958774822130737#
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Google is shutting down April 29. Any good ones you want -- including "Hacking Democracy" -- you better download 'em before that date
democrat123
Member
one man show --- proved in yesterday program
HAQKIAWAZ
Member
From the program, one could easily get impression how directionless IK politics is. In last 15 years, some times he tried to get directions from Hameed Gul, then Musharraf, then Qazi, now Altaf and recently Gen Pasha.
HAQKIAWAZ
Member
The question raised by Pti dissident supporter clearly depicts IK's handling of Pti as a dictator. That's why most of the sincere and senior leaders like Miraj Khan, Naseem Zehra, Agha Riaz and many more have left him in the last 15 years. He should learn that captioning a cricket team is different from heading a political party.
The question raised by Pti dissident supporter clearly depicts IK's handling of Pti as a dictator. That's why most of the sincere and senior leaders like Miraj Khan, Naseem Zehra, Agha Riaz and many more have left him in the last 15 years.
بد قسمتی سے پاکستان کی ساری ہی پارٹیاں ایسے ہی چل رہی ہیں اگر ایسا نہ ہوتا تو آج جاوید ہاشمی صاحب نواز شریف اور شہباز شریف کی جگہ بدستور پارٹی صدر ہوتے اور نوے فیصد لوگ نواز شریف کو چھوڑ کر قاف لیگ میں نہ جاتے.
اگر یہ دو چار نام چھوڑ کر گئے ہیں تو کی بڑے نام پارٹی میں شامل بھی ہوے ہیں
He should learn that captioning a cricket team is different from heading a political party.
آپ کی بات سے اتفاق کیونکہ واقعی سیاست میں اصولوں کی بجاے چالاکی، چال بازی زیادہ چلتی ہے
one man show --- proved in yesterday program
ویسے اس ون مین شو یا ون میں آرمی نے بڑے بڑے نام نہاد سیاستدانوں کی نیندیں حرام کر دی ہیں
ویسے اس ون مین شو یا ون میں آرمی نے بڑے بڑے نام نہاد سیاستدانوں کی نیندیں حرام کر دی ہیں
Very true (but specially of those from PML-N)
quaidkamazaar
Member
@gazi
just being good with words and looking good on tv wont do much...
what you really need for success is to penetrate deep into society and pick leaders from the shareef ones from majority non-elite class. untill Imran Khan is not able to get a proper mandate, his words will remain only words. in Pakistan, you cannot get votes by only looking good on media.
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
i dont think pti as a party will make an impact on the politics. Imran Khan as an individual has some potential though.
i watched the faisla aap ka episode of 16th April, and imran very cleverly avoided to answer the question about him running a one man show... perhaps, the office bearers and the handful of supporters are happy with the way things are in pti or i should rather say imran khan fan club!
in the episode, there were about a dozen other office bearers apparently sitting on the stage with IK in the middle, but non of them said a word like dummies....
imran khan has lately been a bit generous for mqm in showering praises indirectly which is only making mqm's expansion more effective.... pti on the other hand is the one loosing as its supporters and well wishers are getting an impression that IK is shaking hands with the forces he at times lashes....
mqm on the other hand, is indeed the most disciplined party, with the strongest foot holds at the grass root levels.... the MNAs MPAs are all very vocal, educated, and brave enough to face the media openly... they talk the same....
but i feel that IK is afraid of sending his party 'leaders' on talk shows because many of them are lotas as somebody else said above, they lack political wisdom (i doubt the same for IK at times) and all of them have different political aafiliations and track record in the past... which will automatically make their statements inconsistent with each other and with their own past....
mqm on the other hand is like one strong unit and not like a "pewand shuda chaadar"
i believe, mqm and IK (as an individual) will be an ideal combination
hasanawan
Member
Well it is the same Reason I had already Explained in the Past that how Arrogant Imran Khan disregard his workers in Pindi and my friends and he did not listen to them and he chooses Ijaz Khan Jaazi and Imran was of the view that since if he can get 15,000 votes as an independant then with Irman Khan's Chikni Chupri bataian he can bag another 30-40,000 to overrun other Parties....but the same Imran Khan supporteres work against him because of this Stupidity and then everything changed and Ijaz Khan Jaazi got less than 4000 votes and it was the win for Former PTI workers who proved that Imran should not think that he can dump us and still can win.
theimrannasir
Member
All the objection raised by a former PTI member are of no importance in my sight because everyone who joins a new party wishes to get attention from the high-rankings but it's not possible for all the time. Imran Khan, according to my experience, never enjoys a status of celebrity he works like an ordinary man himself. He is a quite principled man, entirely different from that of other parties. So it makes no difference that a sentimental person just for not getting under spot light acquits the party. Party needs clear-sighted and dispassionate members.
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