A Typical case How Dua Of Awliya Works..lets introduce ourself about this......

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A Typical case How Dua Of Awliya Works..lets introduce ourself about this......

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SufiSoul
Member

AR,
Than you can say that why ALLAH SWT had taken help of MATTER in creating this universe,or taken help from so many meterials in creation of this universe.//////

Brother this one statment have confused you actually..
Let me explian it for you.
My above statment means that if someone says that ALLAH SWT is taking help of MATERIAL in creation of universe and further ALLAH SWT is taking help of WATER to create LIVING THINGS than it is not the case.Same, no one can say that ALLAH SWT is taking help of some PEOPLE(AWLIYA)to run the system..
BUT every one and all the things are obeying ALLAH SWT orders,material is obeying order to creat universe,AWLIYA are obeying orders to act,water is obeying order in transforming into living ones etc etc.
IF we say that anything is HELPING ALLAH SWT in any knid THAN it is WRONG and SHIRK...
AR pls take back your BLASPHAMY FATWA, now..And you still are unable to UNDERSTAND MY concept about creator(ALLAH SWT)..
word SUFI have made your INDEPENDENT STANCE extremely DOUBTFUL...
Brother you are very kind in FATWA of SHIRK and BLASPHAMY butneeds your further kindness, to take back your FATWAS..

Posted 4 months ago on 13 Jan 2012 1:24 #
junaid
Member

Allah swt doesn't need anyone to do the work. Allah swt had even used hudhud bird to do the work of dawah. In surah Yasin Allah swt says ' Kun fayakoon' and thats it.

Posted 4 months ago on 13 Jan 2012 8:31 #
shafiq12
member

Than you can say that why ALLAH SWT had taken help of MATTER in creating this universe,or taken help from so many meterials in creation of this universe.

How had matter helped Allah in creating universe. please clarify,i mean, Did Allah create matter, or matter created itself by order of Allah and How Allah had taken help of matter in creating this universe. It seems your example isn't logical. Even Allah created universe from matter, that doesn't mean, Allah is controlling his affair through matter. Matter is matter, it has no brain, It needs guidance of someone and case of wali is totally different which you're relating to creation of matter. according to you wali, helps Allah in controlling his affair. It makes that Allah is weak, that's why he needs help of his creation. What i am saying, every mind thinks,
Why would All wise, All knowing, All Powerful need helps of someone?????

It is not logical one that ALLAH SWT should not use his powers and give some powers to PROPHETS/AWLIYA to PARTICIPATE and feel PRACTICALLY a PROPHET/FRIEND OF ALLAH SWT..

If Allah gives power to his creation, then you are comparing powers of Allah with Powers which are given to creation. But quran clearly states.

http://quran.com/19/65

[There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer].
When you say Allah gives specific power to specific people, then you are putting similarities of Powers. Quran clearly states in surah Ikhlas, "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."
http://quran.com/112/4

Isnt it contradiction

ALLAH SWT created this whole system with HIKMAT.Using meterials and running this system using some people given them status of AWLIYA.

Allah himself created this whole system with Hikmat and needs no one's hikmat, If he is using someone's else hikmat then he ceases to be God as defined by Quran.

ALLAH SWT itself is BEYOND our imagination and nothing having same like humans but ALLAH SWT having all the qualities at unlimited level,not limited like humans.
If we want to know ALLAH SWT personally than it is never possible here....

You say, Allah is beyond our imgination, yet majority of sufis defined Godaccording to their imagination.

Posted 4 months ago on 13 Jan 2012 10:49 #
SufiSoul
Member

You say, Allah is beyond our imgination, yet majority of sufis defined God according to their imagination.//////

No one friend of ALLAH SWT ever claim like this.You are generalising here OR may be reffering to some FAKE one story.....

Allah himself created this whole system with Hikmat and needs no one's hikmat, If he is using someone's else hikmat then he ceases to be God as defined by Quran./////

I think you are facing some difficulty with reading english here.I never said that HE is using someone else HIKMAT(NAUZUBILLAH)....

If Allah gives power to his creation, then you are comparing powers of Allah with Powers which are given to creation. But quran clearly states. ////////////

you need to understand that ALLAH SWT powers are UNLIMITED only limited powers are given to HUMANS.....

How had matter helped Allah in creating universe. please clarify,i mean, Did Allah create matter, or matter created itself by order of Allah and How Allah had taken help of matter in creating this universe. It seems your example isn't logical./////////

Oblivion what are you talking about AGAIN and referring to something i never said......

OBLIVION,

your this post was totally based OVER BLIND ALLEGATIONS..

LIMITED knowledge about any topic is the other reason which leaves the DISCUSSION JUST A JOKE, about such TOPIC...

AR,
You are hiding and now donot have courage to come up and accept your TOTAL CRAP of BLASPHAMY and SHIRK and APOLOGY for your FREQUENT BUHTANS against me..
TO PROVE ME MUSHRIK pls stop this SHIRK,BLASPHAMIC,GAME round the clock and it is clear that you dont care to READ my posts altogether BUT trying blindly to PROVE and insist over something YOU WISH.It SEEMS something SHIRK TYPE ALLEGATIONS you want PROVE but i think my BELIEF is much more straight than you..
I wonder why donot you have such courage to come and make an apology for your RUBBISH FATWAS..
DO YOU HAVE ANY COURAGE????

Posted 4 months ago on 13 Jan 2012 14:53 #
NNL
member

SS

You talk a lot about Awliya but you have no clue who your Allaah is ?

You dont know anything about Him. Awliya arent all that , that you have been made to believe. Get to know your Allaah Azza wa Jal as the Awliya have nothing to do with knowing or the running of this universe.

You statements are by themselves without Knowledge therefore cant be trusted. Its a universal fact that Sufiyana kalam has a lot of bidah and elements of complete shirk and Kufar.

I havent forced myself to read your post cos honestly speaking you have no evidence to back anything up that you say.

Just your understanding of things there Talk about Allaah Azza wa Jal with Knowledge.

Posted 4 months ago on 13 Jan 2012 17:13 #
SufiSoul
Member

NNL,
i know it already that understanding something like this, is never an easy JOB unless you are made go through it practically.
when i was just a small kid my grand mother once told me that
BETA ALLAH APNI QUDRAT SE PEHCHANA JATA HY..
if you want to prove ALLAH swt physically than it is not possible and will be fruitless search..

Posted 4 months ago on 13 Jan 2012 20:35 #
NNL
member

Again

You are talking as if you are talking to an Atheist "?

Allaah Ki Qudrat is simply His Rububiyah and thats pretty much it even the Kuffar-e-Makkah believed in the Rububiya of Allaah Azza wa Jal.

The Issue lies in the Uluhiya and Asma wa Siffat of Allaah Azza wa Jal

No one Before Islam said that there are partners to Allaah in the sense of Rububiyah, They all used the pious people and other things as Ilah as they would be their intercessors and thats pretty much. They all agreed on the Rububiya it was the Uluhiya that they had issues with.

Sufi Soul dont get trapped into something which shaitan even doesnt dwell in.

As for the Kalam of Allaah Azza wa Jal if you want evidences i can provide you.

Posted 4 months ago on 13 Jan 2012 23:23 #
SufiSoul
Member

No one Before Islam said that there are partners to Allaah in the sense of Rububiyah, They all used the pious people and other things as Ilah as they would be their intercessors and thats pretty much. They all agreed on the Rububiya it was the Uluhiya that they had issues with......./////

prophets were also sometimes considered as sharing Uluhiya with ALLAH SWT but it was the problem with PEOPLE and they will be answerable for all this.
Fearing people's weak faith and not recognizing PROPHETS/PIOUS PEOPLE status which ALLAH SWT never stopped and is continue in working(AWLIYA),would not work.
WEAK FAITH solution is to establish it strong and have it straight towards only ONE ALLAH SWT..
by the way i am still unable to observe difference of opinion between you and me.your stance is very much un-clear.And may be by default you are un-able to recognise AWLIYA role i think,due to FAKE characters in the market..
at what you differs here??Be open.Pls limit it to AQEEDA(rububiya and Ulohiya) only.As role of AWLIYA will be difficult for you to discuss..

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 1:04 #
shafiq12
member

No one friend of ALLAH SWT ever claim like this.You are generalising here OR may be reffering to some FAKE one story.....

either you don't know history of sufis, or you don't know what sufism is...... You believe, your shaikh is true that's all what you know . Here are selected quotations of Sufis about God according to their imaginations.

Ibn Arabi wrote,

"Some works I wrote at the command of God sent to me in sleep, or through mystical revelations."(!)

Quran tells revelation is of two types. Revelation from God and other revelation from satan. Revelations from God came to an end at the death of Prophet according to Islam. What types of reevalation was getting Ibn Arabi after the death of Prophet. Think about it.
The Divine element, according to Arabi, inhabits every being. "Glory be to God," Ibn Arabi exclaimed, "Who created things, being Himself their essence."
but quran clearly states there is nothing like him. How could Arabi know that divine elements inhabits in every being. Wasn't he grasping God according to his imagination. I have already given you quote of Ibn Al Hajjaj who defined God according to his wisdom.

Al Hajjaj had uttered Arabic: أنا الحق‎ Anā l-Ḥaqq "I am The Truth," which was taken to mean that he was claiming to be God, since al-Ḥaqq "the Truth" is one of the Ninety Nine Names of Allah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur_Al-Hallaj

Right i hope, after this you will understand what i am trying to point.

think you are facing some difficulty with reading english here.I never said that HE is using someone else HIKMAT(NAUZUBILLAH)...

I ain't facing any difficulty. Aren't trustees of God wise, i mean, Aren't waliys wise. What makes All Wise to take help from wisdom of his own creation. I am taking in this sense.

you need to understand that ALLAH SWT powers are UNLIMITED only limited powers are given to HUMANS.....

According to you, A strong wali can save life of weaker wali with out taking help from God. Then how are you saying, that powers given to walis aren't unlimited. I am talking about exception. Junaid saved other wali who was calling help from Allah. It means Junaid powers are unlimited as compared to Allah as he had save other wali without taking help from Allah.

Oblivion what are you talking about AGAIN and referring to something i never said......

I am talking about this, see below

Than you can say that why ALLAH SWT had taken help of MATTER in creating this universe,or taken help from so many meterials in creation of this universe.

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 5:27 #
SufiSoul
Member

Quran tells revelation is of two types. Revelation from God and other revelation from satan. Revelations from God came to an end at the death of Prophet according to Islam. What types of reevalation was getting Ibn Arabi after the death of Prophet......////
WAHI is very much clear that it is STOPPED.BUT you think that mankind is left with revalations from SHAITAN only and no guidance from ALLAH SWT is possible.here guidance doesnot mean any BOOK/HADEES etc.
YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT IT VERY MUCH..
I have almost ten times pasted this hadees for you BUT you are insisting your personal opinion Against this Hadees Mubarak
"Allah says: "Whoever takes a Wali (loyal slave) of Mine an enemy, I will wage war on him; and My slave will not perform any act with which he draws closer to Me, more beloved to Me then when he fulfills what I have ordained on him; and My salve will keep drawing closer to Me by performing the Nawafil (voluntary acts of worship) until I love him, and when I love him, I will be his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hands with which he strikes, and his legs with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him; and if he seeks refuge with Me, I will grant him refuge." [Saheeh Bukharee]

Can you imagine these conditions/promises from ALLAH SWT are just of no use and should be Ignored easily.????
And how someone can lead towards such blessings while we are just left with SATAN revalations.
At least show me only one person in billions of muslims fulfilling these conditions as from common status and JUMPED into WILAYA by his own struggle.
Why you Ignored it ten times and insisting own UNDERSTANDING..???

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 14:38 #
SufiSoul
Member

Al Hajjaj had uttered Arabic: أنا الحق‎ Anā l-Ḥaqq "I am The Truth," which was taken to mean that he was claiming to be God, ////////

Who took at as a claim of being GOD.????Indeed a person master of playing with the words can take it as a claim of being GOD.
When Abobakar RA shouted towards SAHABA RA that if someone was worshipping Prophet they should be confirmed about his DEATH and ALLAH SWT is always their..
I am 150% confirmed that if you are given to comment over this situation you will declare majority of SAHABA RA as MUSHRIK maazallah who were worshipping PROPHET actually and ABOBAKAR RA had turned them towards ISLAM...
No one ever Learned islamic scholar or scholars have get together against such statment of anyone as a GOD...This is your approach to search for always SHIRK in others BUT i know that 99% of Muslims are involved in SHIRK BISSIFAAT not BIZZAT....
FREON claimed to be GOD and till QAYAMA every one will get to know his claim and GOD had made him an example till QAYAMA.
I have told you ten times that EXTREME muslim lovers statments are always beyond understandings of common muslims but THIS is a BASE of your UNDERSTANDINGS so you will close your eares and eyes on such statments from me...

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 15:04 #
SufiSoul
Member

According to you, A strong wali can save life of weaker wali with out taking help from God/////////

what a stupidity attached to me...where i have said this????
I have called it a FAKE story...

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 15:08 #
SufiSoul
Member

Than you can say that why ALLAH SWT had taken help of MATTER in creating this universe,or taken help from so many meterials in creation of this universe./////

You try to prove something against me out of context here..

PLZ READ BELOW ATLEAST TEN TIMES..

Than you can say that why ALLAH SWT had taken help of MATTER in creating this universe,or taken help from so many meterials in creation of this universe.????
It is not logical one that ALLAH SWT should not use his powers and give some powers to PROPHETS/AWLIYA to PARTICIPATE and feel PRACTICALLY a PROPHET/FRIEND OF ALLAH SWT..
ALLAH SWT created this whole system with HIKMAT.{Using meterials} and running this system using some people given them status of AWLIYA.

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 15:11 #
NNL
member

Sufi Soul

Again you have no context as to Who Allaah Azza wa Jal is how can you talk regarding Awliya?

Awliya ?

Like can you for one min get off that track and tell me what those Awliya can do ?

You core belief is that the Awliya can do a lot of things but they cant ? they cant even stop a fly from harming them or money benefiting them ?

Again you will with a long paragraphs about the Awliya when your Awliya have no clue as to Who Allaah Azza wa Jal is.

You dont know whether who or what Allaah Azza wa Jal is.

You say he is made of Noor right ? and yet you have no evidence of this ?

The hadith that you quote whats the Sharh of it ? Has Imam Bukhari explained it cite anything and not your opinion.....

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 17:23 #
NNL
member

EXTREME muslim lovers statments

You love Allaah Azza wa Jal more than His Nabi or the Sahaba ?

Bring one statment which is authentically proven that they considered something Awliya to be of great value and are helpers of Allaah Azza wa Jal

Surely the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya' (protectors, helpers, lords, gods) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #3)

" If Allah does not touch you with hurt, there is none can remove it but He: If He designs some benefit for you, there is none can keep back His Favour: He causes it to reach whomsoever of His slaves He wills, and He is the Most Forgiving, Most Merciful" (Qur'an10:107)

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 18:01 #
SufiSoul
Member

Bring one statment which is authentically proven that they considered something Awliya to be of great value and are helpers of Allaah Azza wa Jal .......

Regarding helpers of ALLAH SWT this is clear cut SHIRK...

Regarding authentic statement HADEES is always authentic source of Information.
I will avoid pasting above Hadees for you.Pls read through it again.
A number of statments are their in the FLOW but when HADEES is not HAVING its due status how can i come upwith further authentic statments..?????

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 19:54 #
SufiSoul
Member

You love Allaah Azza wa Jal more than His Nabi or the Sahaba ?///////

BUT if you tell me the reason why you have rejected ABOBAKARS RA sayings to ALL the PROPHET EXTREME LOVERS.Than i will come up with further statments.
I will quote a statment you will say no give me further statments.This is not fare my dear.....

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 19:58 #
SufiSoul
Member

You dont know whether who or what Allaah Azza wa Jal is.

Again i am requesting you to come up with your knowledge of ZAAT of ALLAH SWT.
I believe ALLAH SWT is beyond imagination and scope.....

You core belief is that the Awliya can do a lot of things but they cant ? they cant even stop a fly from harming them or money benefiting them ? ????
NO not like that but
THEY are under full order from ALLAH SWT and ALLAH SWT have given them some duties and they are performing their duties like a LOYAL SLAVE.....

NNL you are not aware what i have said till now.So you are talking some thing i have never said....

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 20:01 #
NNL
member

ok what duties have they been given ?

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 20:13 #
SufiSoul
Member

NNL,

my dear what is going on with you???
please stick to the topic just for knowing something if you missed it altogether..
I know you are having some pre-requisite disliking for this topic and your posts are so imbalance ones,due to that....

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 21:19 #
SufiSoul
Member

NNL,

unless and until you change your attitude towards this topic,for knowledge purpose,you will never be able to understand about even single word......

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 21:48 #
NNL
member

Sufi Sahib

I m trying to understand what attributes or duties do you think these Awliya have ?

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 22:19 #
SufiSoul
Member

NNL,

me tho paraishan ho gaya hon.kaisy 70,80 posts repeat karonga.....uffff
baharhaal,lets put this discussion into some manageable forum...
but i think that i should take it to new thread...
pls forgive me this time its too late for me.
2morrow we will start looking into some new horizons.....

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 22:26 #
NNL
member

ok

However just pointing out that in all your posts you havent mentioned one of their duties ? What are they doing ?

Posted 4 months ago on 14 Jan 2012 23:08 #
shafiq12
member

WAHI is very much clear that it is STOPPED.BUT you think that mankind is left with revalations from SHAITAN only and no guidance from ALLAH SWT is possible.here guidance doesnot mean any BOOK/HADEES etc.
YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT IT VERY MUCH..

Please define what is wahi. wasn't ibn Arabi receiving wahis in his dreams. He had crealy written command of God . He received command of God during sleep. Please tell what is meant by command of God.

"Allah says: "Whoever takes a Wali (loyal slave) of Mine an enemy, I will wage war on him; and My slave will not perform any act with which he draws closer to Me, more beloved to Me then when he fulfills what I have ordained on him; and My salve will keep drawing closer to Me by performing the Nawafil (voluntary acts of worship) until I love him, and when I love him, I will be his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hands with which he strikes, and his legs with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him; and if he seeks refuge with Me, I will grant him refuge." [Saheeh Bukharee]

What this hadith has got to do with sufi concept of wali. It is telling that whoever is enemy of wali is enemy of Allah. The hadith is just praising friends of Allah and their properties.

I will be his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hands with which he strikes, and his legs with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him; and if he seeks refuge with Me, I will grant him refuge."

When you submit to will of Allah by following path of Allah, or when you attain taqwa by following Islam, then all evil visions, which put veil on eyes, will be removed. The hadith is just telling us status and height of those person who attained taqwa by following way of Prophet and way of Allah

Posted 4 months ago on 16 Jan 2012 4:53 #
shafiq12
member

صوفی روح

الحق ka kia matlib or yeh naam kis hai ka jab koi shaks kehay kay main Al - Haq hun tu. who kis sense main baat kar raha hai.

I am 150% confirmed that if you are given to comment over this situation you will declare majority of SAHABA RA as MUSHRIK maazallah who were worshipping PROPHET actually and ABOBAKAR RA had turned them towards ISLAM...

any sahabi who had worshiped Muhammad is mushrik according to Quran. Actually, Abu bakar was trying to convey that never take messengers and prophet as idol before Allah. It doesn't mean that Sahabas had taken Muhammad idol before or sahabas were worshiper of Muhammad. It is just a statement which tells don't take anyone against of Allah.

صوفی سول
ہم موحّد ہیں ہمارا کیش ہے ترکِ رسوم

ہم خالصتا ایک الله کے منانے والے ہیں ، یعنی اس کی وحدانیت میں کسی کی شراکت کو گوارا نہیں کر سکتے .چاہے وہ محمّد عربی ہو یا الله کا ولی ، وہ اپنی صفات اور ان صفات کے تقاضوں میں یکتا ہے . وہ اکیلا ہستی کا نظام چلا رہا ہے اور اس کو اپنی کاینات کا نظام چلانے کے کے لئے کسی بھی ولی کی مدد کی ضروت نہیں ہے

I have told you ten times that EXTREME muslim lovers statments are always beyond understandings of common muslims but THIS is a BASE of your UNDERSTANDINGS so you will close your eares and eyes on such statments from me.

What is purpose of these statement which common people don't understand, Are you saying Allah is difficult to understand.

Posted 4 months ago on 16 Jan 2012 5:43 #
Shadix
Member

Hi
Just one question..............Why no wali came to rescue Pakistan in 1971?

Posted 3 months ago on 15 Feb 2012 4:29 #
NNL
member

They talk a lot about Kashf but they contradict the Hadith of Rasool Allaah Sallaho Alayhi wa Sallaam.

Narrated Ibn Umar: The Prophet said, "The keys of the unseen are five and none knows them but Allah: (1) None knows what is in the womb, but Allah: (2) None knows what will happen tomorrow, but Allah; (3) None knows when it will rain, but Allah; (4) None knows where he will die, but Allah (knows that); (5) and none knows when the Hour will be established, but Allah." (Book #93, Hadith #476).

Narrated Masruq: 'Aisha said, "If anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen his Lord, he is a liar, for Allah says: 'No vision can grasp Him.' (6.103) And if anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen the unseen, he is a liar, for Allah says: "None has the knowledge of the unseen but Allah."

Posted 3 months ago on 15 Feb 2012 18:26 #
SufiSoul
Member

NNL,

You missed that sayings of prophet SAWW at KHANDAQ,to Sahaba RAA,that i saw the down fall of Qaisar o Qasra.So dont worry Kuffar will be down to knees.
Another occasion over the Shahadat of HANZALA RA that he was shown HOORS from jannat running towards Hanzala and shouting our Husband is about to come and we will meet soon..

Plz also analyse these sayings of prophet SAWW.

We believe ALLAH SWT can give anyone some thing from GHAIB.Offcourseno oneis able toknow complete ghaib..

Posted 3 months ago on 15 Feb 2012 22:27 #
shafiq12
member

sufi soul

کل میں گھر میں گرا ، مرے ذہن میں یہ خیال آیا کے ضرور کسی ولی نے مستی کی ہے . کیوں کے بقول اپ کے وہ کونٹرول کر رہے ہوتے ... میری بات کرنے کا مقصد کیا یہ بھی ولی کرواتے ہیں .

میں نے ادھر ادھر بہت مکے مارے لیکن کسی کو نہ لگا ، آخر میں نے اپنا سر دیوار کے ساتھ مار دی .. دیوار بولی" ایے جس نے تیرے ساتھ مستی کی ہے اس کو مار مجے کیا کہتا ہے "

Posted 3 months ago on 16 Feb 2012 7:46 #
SufiSoul
Member

کل میں گھر میں گرا
-------------
A very basic concept of ISLAM is that,
To relate every GOOD From ALLAH SWT AND
Every BAD to your NAFS..

NOW look what ALLAH SWT says about his LOYAL SLAVE.

"I will be his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hands with which he strikes, and his legs with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him; and if he seeks refuge with Me, I will grant him refuge." ...

AND you are using BAD words Against such persons...

I would like to REMIND you a TEACHING journey between Hazrat Moosa AS and Hazrat KHIZAR AS in which KHIZAR AS kills a LITTLE BOY and MOOSA AS had questioned HIM..

So these people are acting just according to DIVINE ORDERS and if someone raises questions than he is raising question Against divine RULES and ORDERS..

But you should not MIX SAJJADA NASHINES etc with LOYAL SLAVES.I think you are mixing...

Posted 3 months ago on 16 Feb 2012 11:25 #
shafiq12
member

صوفی سول اپ کے کہنے کا مطلب ہے میرا گرنے کی وجہ یہ تھی کے میں ولیوں پہ یکین نہیں کیا؟؟ میں نے تو کسی ولی کی شان میں گھستاخی نہیں کی ، میں تو صرف اپ سے سوال پوچ رہا ہوں ، کیا ہمارا گرنا بھی ولیوں کی وجہ سے ہے ... میں ان ولیوں پہ یقین رکھتا ہوں ، جو الله کو پکارتے ہیں ، یعنی وہ الله کے موحتاج ہیں ، اور ہر وقت الله سے ڈرتے ہیں، کے کہیں ان کے عمل میں منافقت نہ ا جائے ، میں اسے ولیوں کو نہیں مانتا جن کا الله موہتاج ہے

Posted 3 months ago on 16 Feb 2012 11:39 #
SufiSoul
Member

Bhai Sb,

jo me keh raha hon wo aap samajh nahi rahy ya samajhna chahty nahi..

Debate should be to exchange some knowledge OR bring some Arguments to prove yourself or prove me wrong..
When you will push debate into some Funny stuff questions raises about your debating capabilities not abt the other..

Posted 3 months ago on 16 Feb 2012 11:53 #
SufiSoul
Member

Another thing is that you are answering with funny arguments in response to WORDS from Quran and Hadees.Sayings from Quran and Hadees must be answered properly OR better to stay QUITE...

Posted 3 months ago on 16 Feb 2012 12:04 #
shafiq12
member

sofi shahib,

Debate should be to exchange some knowledge OR bring some Arguments to prove yourself or prove me wrong..
When you will push debate into some Funny stuff questions raises about your debating capabilities not abt the other..

ٹھیک ہے یہ میرا ارگمنٹ ہے

میں نے اوپر جھوٹ بولا کے میں گرا ، میں نہیں گرا تھا ، صرف میں چک کر رہا تھا کے اپ مرے جھوٹ کو پکڑ لیں گے کے نہیں ... اپ مرے چھوٹے سے جھوٹ کو نہ پکڑ سکے اور شیخ کے اتنے بارے جھوٹ کیسے پکڑ سکتے ہیں... اپ نے بحیر شوچے سمجے اتنا بڑا انتہ برا لکچر جھاڑ دیا ، اور یہ بھی نہ سوچا .... اور مرے جھوتے بیان کو اپنی سچائی کی دلیل بنایا . اور اپ نے اپنی سچائی اور مرے جھوٹ کے لئے یہ دلیل پیش کی

"I will be his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hands with which he strikes, and his legs with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him; and if he seeks refuge with Me, I will grant him refuge." ...

یعنی اپ کے کہنے کا مطلب تھا ، کے میں ولیوں کا دشمن ہوں اس لئے گرا ہوں، حلانکے ایسا بلکل نہیں ہے . اور مرے گرنے کی وجہ یہی تھی

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 4:46 #
SufiSoul
Member

صرف میں چک کر رہا تھا کے اپ مرے جھوٹ کو پکڑ لیں گے کے نہیں
--------------

All i can say Is,

"MOMIN KI FARASAT SE DAR K WO ALLAH K NOOR SE DEKHTA HY"..

I have taken Your personality and your knowledge/debate as two separate entities.
I am only concerned with the "concept" relating to this TOPIC.I address the concept raised in debat..

DUE TO THE TOPIC IN HAND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO PUT PROPER QUESTION.
But without mentioning your knowledge grip regarding this topic i just PICK nd CHOOSE the concept and comment.(Aap ko tho khush hona chahiye).
Why should i mention your personal discrepancies when i can understand you???I dont need it.

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 5:07 #
shafiq12
member

I am only concerned with the "concept" relating to this TOPIC.I address the concept raised in debat..

See, concept should be based on truth. If someone is lying to you then you should directly point him --Stop lying!!!... There is no problem in guiding someone to the truth... I was lying , it was your responsibility to guide me, instead of giving me advice, you have tried to erect your structure on base of my lies. That's what majority of shaikhs are doing.
Sufi soul even in the books of lies you will find truth some day.

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 5:25 #
SufiSoul
Member

کل میں گھر میں گرا
---------------
The concept picked was,where to relate harms.????

And i explained it.(why you objecting)??

You need strong concepts first than further building will be possible to errect..

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 5:34 #
SufiSoul
Member

If someone is lying to you then you should directly point him..
---------
Bazorgo achi baat tho nahi expose kerna.expose kerta bhi hon but severe cases me.like i did in the past..

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 5:38 #
shafiq12
member

صوفی بھائی
جب کوئی بندہ اپ کو دوکھا دے رہا ہو ، تو اس کو بتانے میں کوئی حرج نہیں ہے ... نہ کے اپ اس کو دوکھے کو اپنی سچائی کے ثبوت بنے ... مرے کہنے کا مقصد بہت آسان ہے ... شیخ اگر اپ کو دوکھا دے رہا ہے اور اپ کو نہیں پتا کے وہ سچ بول رہا ہے تو یہ اپ کو معصومیت ہے . شیخ کبی بھی اپ کو نہیں بتایے گا کے وہ جھوٹ بولتا ہے ... یہ تو ہم ہی ہیں جس نے اپ کو سچ بتا دیا ... اپ کی رہنمائی کے لئے ... کیوں کے اپ ہمارے مرید نہیں ہے .... اگر اپ ہمارے مرید ہوتے تو شائد کبی بھی نہ بتاتا

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 6:42 #
SufiSoul
Member

Zabani jama kharch chala rahy hain hanif abbasi ki tarha..
O bhai illogical zabani jama kharch se baat nahi banti.
koi argument do.
koi quran o hadees ka hawala do.
koi aur cheez samny lawo.
kabhi jhoot bolty hain kabhi kuch.
aur samajh rahy hain k me ULOO hoon mujhy pata hi nahi k jhoot kia hy aur sach kia hy..

Kuch pata hy Quran o Hadees ka.koi ik hawala nahi aya aap ki raraf se quran o hadees ka...

Sirf batain ker ker k ratee ratai jumloon se doosry ko kia samjha sakty hain???

KHA MAKHA me yahan pages zaya ker rahy hain aap....

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 7:05 #
shafiq12
member

صوفی سول
جب اپ زبانی باتوں میں پھستے ہیں تو پھر قرآن اور حدت کی طرف دوڑتے ہیں ... چلیں قرآن سے بات کرتے ہیں ... پورے قرآن اور حدیت میں صوفی " کا لفظ نکال دیں تو میں اپ سے بحث ختم کر دوں گا . اور یہ سمجوں گا کے اپ حق پہ ہیں ... بہت آسان سے بات ہے

Posted 3 months ago on 17 Feb 2012 10:55 #
SufiSoul
Member

پورے قرآن اور حدیت میں صوفی " کا لفظ نکال دیں
---------------------

AWLIYA in QURAn and Hadees are their..Why you insist local terminologies.???like sufi.means out of Quran terminilogies.

جب اپ زبانی باتوں میں پھستے ہیں تو پھر جب اپ زبانی باتوں میں پھستے ہیں تو پھر قرآن اور حدت کی طرف دوڑتے ہیں
------------------
Aap ne mujhy pasaya k aap ne jhoot bola aur mujhy pata nahi chala...Mujhy tho kuch pata hi nahi.

قرآن اور حدت کی طرف دوڑتے ہیں
-----------------

Qabil e Aitiraz zuban mat use kia karain Quran O Haqdees ki taraf...Kia aap GEETA ki taraf dorty hain.????

Posted 3 months ago on 18 Feb 2012 3:41 #
SufiSoul
Member

بہت آسان سے بات ہے
----------------

Asaniyan mat dhoodain QURAN GHAUR O FIKAR ki DAwat daita hy..HALWAY k shauqeen mat banain....kuch Aqal anr Fikar se kaam laina chahiye.....

Posted 3 months ago on 18 Feb 2012 3:43 #
shafiq12
member

AWLIYA in QURAn and Hadees are their..Why you insist local terminologies.???like sufi.means out of Quran terminilogies.

yes they are mentioned but your concepts aren't mentioned

Aap ne mujhy pasaya k aap ne jhoot bola aur mujhy pata nahi chala...Mujhy tho kuch pata hi nahi.

اپ انجان نہ بنیں ، ایک چھوٹا کچی جماعت کا بچہ بھی یہ پکڑ لے گا ، کہ میں نے جھوٹ بولا، یہ نیچے والا پر دیکھیں

میں نے ادھر ادھر بہت مکے مارے لیکن کسی کو نہ لگا ، آخر میں نے اپنا سر دیوار کے ساتھ مار دی .. دیوار بولی" ایے جس نے تیرے ساتھ مستی کی ہے اس کو مار مجے کیا کہتا ہے "

یہ صاف زہر کر رہا ہے کے میں جھوٹ بول رہا ، بلا کوئی پاگل ہو گا جو اپنا سر دیوار میں مارے گا... لیکن اپ کو شیخ نے اسے ٹرین کیا ہے کے اپ ہر جھوٹ کو سمجتھے ہیں
؛)

Qabil e Aitiraz zuban mat use kia karain Quran O Haqdees ki taraf...Kia aap GEETA ki taraf dorty hain.????

ہم کسی طرف نہیں دوڑتے ، جم کر مقابلہ کرتے ہیں

Posted 3 months ago on 20 Feb 2012 7:35 #
SufiSoul
Member

yes they are mentioned but your concepts aren't mentioned.
----------------------
yes this is not theory but practical field..

اپ انجان نہ بنیں ، ایک چھوٹا کچی جماعت کا بچہ بھی یہ پکڑ لے گا ، کہ میں نے جھوٹ بولا، یہ نیچے والا پر دیکھیں
------------------------
Laikin dekhh lo mujhy tho nahi pata..me kitna sada hon...hy na...

م کر مقابلہ کرتے ہیں
----------------------

hum tho her waqt Quran or Hadees ki taraf dorty hain....

Posted 3 months ago on 20 Feb 2012 14:05 #
shafiq12
member

sufi soul
you said, it's practical field but can you give me reason why three generation of pious precede-rs were unaware of this practical. Umer,abu bakar, Uthman never told us about this secret journey...

Posted 3 months ago on 22 Feb 2012 4:48 #
SufiSoul
Member

three generation of pious precede-rs were unaware of this practical.
--------------
when Awliya of this time are aware that everything shoud not be told to everyone and everyone is not capable.How come Sahaba were not knowing this fact????

Let me tell you a reference from Hadees se Mubarak.

A SAHABI RA once told to other Sahaba that Muhammad SAWW sometimes telling me something that if disclosed to you you KILL me..(i donot know the exact reference but words are the same almost)....
what was MIRAJ JOURNEY.????
what was the pic showed to SAWW during KHANDAQ???
what was the pic showed to muhammad SAWW abt the exact places of KUFFAR to placed dead during BADR??
what abt the pic of women of Jannah showed to him SAWW while sitting over dead body of HANZALA RA.????
what was the ORDER of UMER RA during KHUTBA to hundereds Miles away COMMANDER.????

Today AWLIYA are well aware of the fact of the fact that common people donot need to be aware of this special journey and STUDENTS of AWLIYA are automatically learning from their special Journeys.
So Awliya are always SILENT OR may quote any Quran or Hadees if he thinks students need.
Otherwise COMPLETE SILENCE IN THEIR LIVES...

Posted 3 months ago on 22 Feb 2012 13:49 #
shafiq12
member

sufi soul
First clear, Were All sahabas walis? Is wali a higher stage than of sahabi or sahabis and wali are two different things... or All sahabis (pure class of mominee) weren't wali... Few of them were wali..

میرا مطلب ہے ، کیا اپ سمجتھے ہیں کے تمام صحابہ اکرام ولی تھے .. یا اپ سمجتھے ہیں کے سب صحابی ولی نہیں تھے ان میں کچھ خاص صحابہ تھے جو ولی تھے .... عمر ، ابو بکر ، عثمان ، الی میں کون ولی تھا .. کیا یہ سب ولی تھے یا یں میں کچھ خاص لوگ ولی تھے .... میربانی فرما کر روشنی ڈالیں

Posted 3 months ago on 23 Feb 2012 8:27 #
SufiSoul
Member

This is freaking common sense ,
awliya found places after Sahaba RAA.
Sahaba RAA is a separate terminology used towards Sahaba RAA only.
And no other can be sahabi.
Some transfers are made directly from Shaikh towards students.presence in front of shaikh is must for these transfers.
So if anyone who attends directly Muhammad SAWW is Sahabi and others never.
May be many other reasons will also be their by seeing aand attending Majlis of Muhammad SAWW,i am not aware of...

Posted 2 months ago on 23 Feb 2012 16:45 #