A VAT by any other name.... « PKPolitics Discuss

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A VAT by any other name....

(20 posts)

nota
Member

While the government tries to pretend it is not going to implement VAT or is going to delay it, you know it is coming 'cause IMF has said so (and last week it announced it is withholding the next 'Qist' until VAT is implemented. Here is the latest re-branding of VAT:
Reformed GST — new label for VAT

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 5:32 #
toamin
member

IMF is forcefully imposing VAT so that sab awam kee vat laga do...

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 8:03 #
gazi23
Member

@Salam

Its not IMF who is trying to impose such a tax but its PPP who are trying to impose this as IMF requirement is just to improve or increase the collection from the country while it can also be improved in many ways like Stopping smuggling Tax should be imposed on OWNERS OF AGRICULTURE LANDS just like Taxes are imposed on every single yard of house on house owners in Urban areas and by at least improving transparency but this Govt. wants to impose tax on poor people that is what is actually happening here and this what WAT is all about...

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 9:05 #
gv
Member

@nota

out of curiousity what's so wrong with VAT - we have one of worse revenue collection ratios in the world - shouldnt' we be looking to increase that?

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 9:54 #
nota
Member

@gv
Nothing is wrong with ANYTHING if done RIGHT but you know how things get implemented/morphed into (e.g. Banking and specially investment banking :-P ). Here are some of the issues:
a) It is being imposed on us by IMF (as is this new budget)
b) It WILL be an additional tax to an already tax burdened population (no matter what they tell the people)
c) It's burden will fall AGAIN on the poor and on those already paying taxes
d)It will give opportunity to the tax man to collect bribes from many more people
e) etc. etc.

Now you don't believe that just because VAT is being introduced, this whole revenue collection system will magically fix itself? Why not fix the system you already have/collect from the rich ('paupers' like Nawaz, Gilani, Shahbaz, Fazlu, plus industrialists) so you don't need to play with things like VAT? Why not fair taxation to begin with??

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 10:26 #
gv
Member

@nota

my understanding is the bulk of income tax collection is drawn from salaried employees - direct taxation in the rural areas, be it the upper or lower classes or in urban slums is negligible. The rich famously evade it whereever they can so there you have the majority of the population exempt from income tax.

the easisest way for the tax man to rase the tax base is to increase indirect taxation ala VAT schemes and some such - if that increase is able to improve government spending ability then its a good thing.

I agree with you that the likelihood of the present adminstration putting that increase to good use is slim but in theory indirect taxation is probably a beneficial thing for pakistan

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 10:35 #
nota
Member

@gv
And let's keep in mind the fact that the more we raise right now, the more will be wasted by the govt. Example:
Pak defence budget to be raised by 31 percent in 2010-11

And remember that the debt-servicing costs are about 150% of our defense spending.

Similarly, we have increases of almost all things that do not help development and cut-backs in things that do.

So who really does this raise in revenue generation really help? Certainly not the common man...

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 10:50 #
gv
Member

@nota

agreed - but the general theme in the press etc has been to slate VAT as a concept which is dumb in my opinion.. at least we should make sure that people know that indirect taxation could be beneficial provided its put to good use

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 10:55 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

This website is acting strange for me. Is anyone noticing the same effect(s) ?

(1) I click on log-out, but I still show as if I'm logged

(2) I log-in. Even then it repeats that, I need to login and does so consistently

(3) On pages of some threads, I show up as logged in, on others I show up as not logged in

Posted 1 year ago on 10 Jun 2010 17:27 #
toamin
member

this is 'VAR Tax' to be imposed on whole population irrespective of their economic status to sponsor on going crusade var against muslims.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:09 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

We need VAT for certain reasons.

a) It wil get economy documented.

b) People who have taxable inocme but escape the tax net due to non-documenation , will come under tax net and hence direct taxation will increase.

At the moment out of 2.5 million Income tax payers , 2 million are salaried person.

c) We need to waive income tax exemption on agriculture as well.

I m unable to comprehend that why an agriculturist who makes millions is execmpet from income tax whereas an ordinary person getting 25k salary is taxed.

This is cruelity.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:17 #
toamin
member

Aadmi

we 'need' VAT for certain reasons??... yes only one big reason that IMF will not release next tranche, furthermore do we have any choice here?

thx

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:27 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Thats one of the reasons, if they give money to bridge our deficit , they will impose conditionalities as well.

But important thing is that don't we need documenation of economy. Don't we need people , who earn money to pay tax ?

Everything , from IMF is neither aasmani saheefa nor gattha of gandagi.

Discuss the merits and demerits of VAT instead of cursing IMF.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:33 #
toamin
member

documentation of economy is there, i mean complete and accurate documentation, but this is another debate

how can you ask to impose VAT as a tool of documentation?? VAT is only to payback IMF usury, it is not for people's benefit-

people don't need loans, even if govt shutsdown (like they exist?) people will be more successful-

you sound like a 'public servant'?

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:37 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Salam ,

I m not a 'public servant' at all :)

U don't seem to live in Pakistan . There are millions of govt servants which get paid salary and hence get the daily living. To u , if govt shuts down it won't make any difference but it will make difference to those millions.

Also , please enlighten me where documentation of economy exists. If u got to any big store , restureant , u don't get reciepts because the store owner doesn't want to show his income. So what u r speaking of ?

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:43 #
toamin
member

Aadmi

millions of public servants should not be getting paid if they are not serving public, it is better to shut down an office which is a hub of corruption

national economic record at grand scale exists for all areas such as agriculture, live stock, technology, textile etc

please study govt survey/statistics reports

yea, i have spent most of my life away but still am closely attached to pakistan

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:49 #
zia m
Member

We need a progressive tax policy.People in higher income bracket need to pay more.Agricultural income should also be taxed like ordinary income.We can't expect the middle class to pay most of the taxes.

Australian tax bracket...

Taxable income Tax on this income
$0 – $6,000 Nil
$6,001 – $35,000 15c for each $1 over $6,000
$35,001 – $80,000 $4,350 plus 30c for each $1 over $35,000
$80,001 – $180,000 $17,850 plus 38c for each $1 over $80,000
Over $180,000 $55,850 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

All figures are in Australian Dollars

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:51 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Zia m,

Pakistan has also such progress tax brackats but no one declares income .

Yes, agrricutual income should also be taxed as a normal income. Income is an income irrespective of source.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 12:56 #
zia m
Member

It is always very convenient for us to blame the West for all our problems.They must be forcing us to engage in corruption.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 13:04 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Very right. and also having the one of the largest armies and spending hurnders of billions on it as well .

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 13:07 #