@pshycho
freedom of speech is not a slavery of mind infact it gives us a right to have say.do not confuse it with abusive language as abusive language does'nt come under the heading of speech, so as long as your speech is universally accepted speech you have a freedom to deliver it any where you want to.
PKPolitics Discuss » Suggestions & Help
Admin and secular approach to "islamic" topics
(73 posts)-
mjkk86
MemberPosted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 11:25 # -
Dear HK
I only object to your approach towards people. I believe that every discussion should be civilised and without abuse. The people who are bearer of islamic thoughts and concepts should be whiter than white when comes to presenting islamic point of view. They should be mature, with patience and use the best language.
If people accept the point of view then fine, if they dont then its up to them.
Lakum denukum waliya deen
wala muamla
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 11:28 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Of-course, you are right.
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 11:30 # -
Dear RP
regading your point
"But , Elected representiaves of islam can't tell me what are ibaadat , faraiz , sunnah or how to practice islam or to follow a particular fiqah. Thats my personal domain."
If you read again my post @ziam, you will find I have mentioned this very point as well. I am at utter loss that I am unable to make my point more clearer to you.
The discussion of ijtehad without discussion on the issue of Tabanni and areas of Tabanni will lead us nowhere.
I hope I could make it more clearer to you.
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 11:36 # -
RajputPuttar
MemberFJ
I think , i can clear my point with an example with an example (althoughy very controversial).
In 1974, the natioan assembly of Pakistan , declared 'Qadiyanis' as non-muslim.
I think in your view, its 'Taabaani' and becomes a part of 'Islami Shariah'
(Please correct me if i misunderstood your point of view).
In my view ,its law of land and binding on me and every citizen of Pakistan but its not part of 'Islam' for anyone until and unless he agrees to this in personal faith. It will become part of his faith/islam only if he agrees to this interpreation as done by national assembly.
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 11:42 # -
Dear Mr. Psycho,
Your sweeping statement is a gesture of freedom of expression.
The statement is extremely philosophical.Freedom means absence of stupid, impracticable, illogical, inhuman and useless restraints and restriction upon the biological progress of soul, body and mind.
Rules and restrictions are fixed through an evolutionary cycle of trial and error.
* No rule or restriction could be imposed to stop from inhaling the Oxygen through fresh air.
* No rule could be accepted to block the Sunlight.Actually the Rules and regulations are formulated to protect the freedom after a consensus of thinking to achieve a civilized way of life.
Had there been no freedom of expression, there would have no Shakespeare, Goethe, Tagore, Ghalib, Mir Taqi Mir, Allama Iqbal, Karl Marx, Thomas Hobbes, John Lock, Rousseau,
Ibn-e-Khuldoon, Hakim Razi, Ibne Sina.
There would have been no invention, discovery or innovation without freedom of expression.
There would have no breakthrough in the fields of science, technology, art, culture, literature and entertainment had there been no freedom.
The concept of Freedom should not be interpreted as Freedom to nonsense.
To go and expose in the public without proper dress, or abusive behavior, is not freedom, but indecency.
Rules and regulations are required to make the 'selfish animal' behave like a 'social animal'.Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 11:53 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Javed Sheikh sb. perhaps you haven't noticed ? They are pushing for taxes in USA for the environment and for cutting carbon emissions.
According to some, one part of the proposed bill also suggests, they will tax people for breathing air (oxygen) too.
You live in USA, right ? I'd request you to .. take care, to look before you leap.
--------------------------------------------------------
I guess, we'r moving away from the original topic.
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 11:55 # -
What ever is being formulated, what sort of rules are being enacted, are for the improvement of human body, mind and soul.
All is related to the Exercise of Freedom.
Such activities are discussed, approved and appreciated, only in a Free Society.They know how to run the horse to win the race.
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 12:04 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Javed Sheikh sb. Perhaps you missed George Carlin's shows ? Especially, these ones;
(1) 'We Like War' ?
(2) YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS ?They'r available on Youtube, if you missed them :D
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 12:08 # -
Dear RP
we are getting closer now.
First of all as (per my limited knowledge and I invite others to give their opinions as well to learn from each others)
* Tabanni is done in the matters where an Ijtehad is required.
* Ijtehad is only done in the matters/issue/situations which is never faced before (i.e no direct evidence from quran, sunna or ijma'a sahaba)
* Ijtehad is the Hukm of Allah for a particula matter (i.e the whole process and struggle of a mujtahid is to establish/find the hum of Allah swt)
* Ijtehad is only an individual effort and not a collective one, although can be accepted by other mujtahideen if they do not want to do their own ijtehad in the same matter.
* Ijtehad is only binding on the mujtahid him/her self and it is Haram for a mujtahid to leave his/her ijtehad.
* Mujtahid is only required to leave his/her own ijtehad if a different ijtehad is Adopted (Tabanni) by the leader/state of the muslims
* The state/leader of the muslims can not do any tabanni in the personal matters of ibadat (i.e No tabanni in how we pray, hanafi, sha'fi, maliki, etc etc)
* Tabanni MUST be done in the soceital affairs other wise there will be disputes and anarchy in the soceity.
* State/leader of the muslim has the SOLE right to do the tabanni, any other authority trying to do tabanni is unislamic and will be considered as rebelious
* State/leader of the muslims can change the adoption in a particular matter and can adopt a different opinion/ijtehad than the previous. This depends upon the strength of the evidences used and the understanding of the reality.
* The previous adoptions (Tabannis) are not binding on the new leader of the muslims and the new leader can adopt a complete different opinion in the same issue
* There is a BIG difference in Fatwa and Ijtehad. Fatwa is the extension of the existing ijtehad and considers to be the lowest of Fiqh knowledge.these are the few points and we will continue the discussion.
Now coming back to the example you gave me, without being emotive about the issue , lets consider a scenario, if in US, government Adopts (Passes legislation) that bearing arms, buying and selly, and even keeping them in houses is illegal. And also passes (Adopts) a legislation that anyone caught violating this will face x year imprisnment. Can someone in US still keeps an arm in his possession by claiming that keeping arms is his personal matter ?
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 12:22 # -
dear semirza
Could you please remove my last post as I am unable to edit it. I want to resubmit the last post. Dontworry I have a copy of it :)
And a big thankyou for restoring this thread.
BTW what actually happened ?
FJ
removed
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 13:56 # -
RajputPuttar
MemberFJ Bahi,
The example of US has given is a legislation that has nothing to do with religion.
Whereas the example of 'Qadiyanis' i quoted has a lot to do with religion.
This is pericsley what my stand is:
It is acceptable and applicable as law of land.
But
Its doesn't become part of religion. A person , is sole authoirthy to interpret religon for himself although he can foloow anybody else interpretation as well.
I m pretty much open to debate on this but this exchange of views validates the admin's point that this topic should belong to faith & religon .
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 14:02 # -
dear semirza
By removing all the "unnecessay and irrelevant" post you have literally killed the whole debate.
Can I humbly request to transfer all the "unnecessay and irrelevant" posts to my thread
" Islam: Important issue related to Ijtehad and Difference of Opinion"
even if you donot transfer that thread to current affairs.
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 14:04 # -
zia m
MemberI don't think my post was irrelevant.
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 14:09 # -
dear RP
I have put the edited version of my reply to you on
" Islam: Important issue related to Ijtehad and Difference of Opinion"
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 14:10 # -
dear semirza
any chance of transferring the so called "irrelevant" post from here to
" Islam: Important issue related to Ijtehad and Difference of Opinion"
There was a lot of good discussion stuff which seems lost now :(
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 14:20 # -
LiberalKarachi
MemberMaybe this topic should be moved to 'Faith and Religion' section too...just kidding :)
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 19:12 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
They didn't restore my thread 'Mass Media content from JI'.
They never told me why they took it down. What they plan to do about it.
Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 19:33 # -
sasherwani
Members@ FG,
Your nick suits u well. You definately are a jazbaati and sure as hell one faarigh person.
I support the admin for keeping religion away from pakistani politics decisions.
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 11:17 # -
@ sasherwani
I always stay away from personal attacks so only can do a dua for you.
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 11:21 # -
sasherwani
MembersI just complimented your nick :) Didnt know you take ur own nick as a personal attack!
Cheers!
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 11:23 # -
@ sasherwani
If you think about it (Faarigh Jazbati) actually its a portryl of irony and sarcasm. ;)
FJ
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 11:26 # -
@all
Members are requested to stay on topic.Posted 2 years ago on 31 Mar 2010 11:29 #
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