Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
This is a discussion for ALL who think Afghan Jihad is responsible for what is happening in Pakistan right now, the suicide bombings and such.
Let's discuss this issue.
@jaypk: I will give you a chance to put forward your dissertation before I put up my own.
Let's talk about it on this thread
jaypk
Member
sir so kind of you tht ...you will give me a CHANAS....kitnay azeem hain aap..as if you wouldnt giev me a chance i would never...forget it....i have already given it....its your turn now...first give me the answer in tht thread thn we ll come here...
SufiSoul
Member
The only reason for Pakistan to jump into Afghan Jihad was the fear of USSR to attack Pakistan after Afghan illegal Occupation..
This was the actual cause for which Pakistan helped Afghan Jihad.
Their are various Jihad fronts in the world Like chechniya,Pelistine,Kashmir,Somalia,Sudan BUT we cannot find Pakistan their to help Jihadi movements in all over the world..
This was the own survival mission of Pakistan to help Afghan Jihad....pretty clear..
SufiSoul
Member
Pakistan is facing enemity from Russia and India due to the reasons in Past.
So at the cost of your survival you are facing Bomb blasts from Idia and Russia...
Kisi pe Ihsan Jatany ki zarorat nahi..That we help Afghanis in Past kind of statments....
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
First, we never deny our role in Afghan Jihad, so we never need to give any kind of 'explanation' for it.
Secondly, there's an Ayah in Quran which goes like;
'tumhain kia ho gaya hai, ke jab boorh'he, bache, auratain cheekh cheekh kar faryaad kar rahe hain, ay ALLAH is zalim qarye (ye lafz sahi pata nahi ke kia hai) se nijaat dila de, tum kyun ALLAH ke raaste main qital nahi karte, un ki madad ke liye kyoon nahi jate ?'
This is a crystal clear direction from Quran, to help Muslims in distress. Especially in a circumstance when a foreign power is trying to occupy or fight with Muslims.
This is mentioned in the program Jirga dated;
- 5 Nov 2009 (around 18:40 mins.)
- 12 Nov 2009
where many Ulamaa were called, including Qazi sb.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Thirdly, ALL! Muslims within this ENTIRE world .. are ONE! NATION!, no matter if we are divided across the boundaries of nation states.
Europe doesn't give a feel of the boundaries of 'nation states' within EU, since the 'Yahood' created the EU. Why do you think that is ? Why should Muslims adhere to foreign laws MORE than the foreigners themselves do ? When we ALL know that interests of Muslims are endangered ?
Muhammad (SAW) said, Muslims are like body, when one part feels pain, the other also feels it.
If you don't feel that pain, then I have no words for you.
Fourth, the leader of Pakistan at the time, Zia also! supported Jihad. He must have taken that decision after a lot of discussion with many people in his govt.
Fifth, as SufiSoul has already put forward, one reason for which Pakistan fought this war was to save itself, to save itself from USSR moving its army towards Pakistan, AFTER they took over Afghanistan.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@jaypk: When you talk about 'deprivation' of 'basic necessities' of life in Pakistan, you should REALIZE by now that it is self inflicted by Pakistanis' on themselves.
Pakistanis' have ZERO reason or ZERO credibility to complain about it.
They are intentionally doing it to themselves since partition. I can give you a million examples of this at ALL levels in this nation.
How ? Because they allow injustice. Not only allow it, they actively take part in it themselves!. They allow their leaders to disobey the law of the land, to loot and plunder the nation, because they are busy doing the same at the individual level. In order for their own looting to continue, they need such leaders at the helm of the nation who help them do it.
Pakitanis' knowingly!! allow for this charade to continue.
After living the last 30 years of my life in Pakistan, I have realized this fact on various occasions. You can't deny it.
Pakistanis' have ALL the resources they need within Pakistan, yet they loot and plunder it themselves.
Pakistanis' have ZERO credibility or reason to complain about it. I don't accept this as reason from you, since the 'deprivation' of 'basic necessities' is 'self inflicted'
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@jaypk: When you talk about the basic principle of 'allowing people to live their lives', Pakistani nation again has ZERO! reason to complain about it. Pakistani people intentionally! brought it on itself.
Go to any ordinary Pakistani in any shop and he will tell you about it. Who doesn't know what has happened in Pakistan at the hands of Pakistani people since Pakistan's creation ? I went for lunch in Barkat Market Lahore, I used to work in a software house nearby. An ordinary waiter said to me, 'Pakistan main kia hai jo nahi hota ?'
Pakistani nation stood by and did nothing when Musharraf started bombing people of FATA without any reason, which resulted in the uprising we saw in the past decade. Imran Khan, Gen. Orakzai, Hamid Mir are ALL witnesses to this fact.
Watch the program Dunya Today dated 29-Oct-2009 for more info on this
Imran Khan has said this a million times on mass media. Hamid Mir has ALSO said this. Gen. Orakzai hasn't been interviewed by mass media.
Can you think of reasons for which there'd be a media blackout in the regions of conflict ? why was national and international media denied access to cover these areas ?
Why would someone not allow for media to show the right picture ? There would be a rational reason behind it. Its just that YOU are ignoring the facts.
Pakistani nation has ZERO reason to complain when they can't live their lives in peace.
Why ? Because;
1) Pakistani people destroyed ALL the state institutions because of their greed, corruption. They did it to themselves over the decades.
State institutions are the pillars of a nation which repel foreign aggression, like it happens in the west today.
State institutions are there to see to it that justice is done within the people of a nation.
Corruption of Pakistani people ate ALL that Pakistan had, even the army is envolved in massive cases of corruption.
How can rampant corruption sustain itself within a society over decades without the will of its people, regardless of the level they are at ?
Does a country that has been encouraging its people to commit rampant corruption deserve peace ? DO its people deserve the right to live peacefully when they commit 'zulm' within themselves without any remorse, without any mercy ?
2) Wide-spread injustice
Do you think the injustice we have in our society is because of some foreign powers alone ? Do you think our own people haven't committed gross!! violations of justice at EVERY level in our nation ?
3) Musharraf took money from foreign powers to kill his own people
It is published fact, known to EVERYBODY in the entire world. Who allowed that to happen ? Pakistani! people.
It is WELL known that Musharraf started war with people of FATA on behest of USA. At first, US was paying $70 million to Musharraf/Pakistan Army for it. These are not my words. These are published facts. Now-a-days, who knows what they are being paid for it ? We'v lost the count.
No, my friend, Pakistani people have ZERO reason to complain about not having the peace to live their lives. They fully! deserve what they are getting right now.
Pakistani people have done it to themselves. Infact they are STILL busy doing it to themselves.
4) It is a published fact that Musharraf allowed for Pakistani citizens to be abducted from their homes by FBI/US agencies.
Why did no Pakistani protest against it when it was happening ?
Where were ALL the possible extradition treaties, that still! don't exist between Pakistan <-> US. Pakistan has had 62+ years of existence and it doesn't have extradition treaty with US. Can you believe it ? Who did that to Pakistani people ? Of-course! it was Pakistani people.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Why don't people of Pakistan revolt against those who 'hoard' sugar, wheat or other basic necessities of life ? The people doing this are small in number.
Why don't they ?
- The people in Pakistan ALWAYS had the chance of choosing good leaders. Why have they never done that to date ?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I have seen relatives of Mujahideen. I found none of them to have regretted making that decision as adults.
They didn't do Jihad for Qazi. They did Jihad for ALLAH ALMIGHTY. They made decision to participate in Jihad for themselves. You can brain wash 2-5 people in a class of 100. You can't brainwash ALL of them.
People of Pakistan hail Zia for doing Jihad. Only! for Jihad. Other than that, they are ready to kill Zia for his actions.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Muslims don't support Jihad for fame or for 'hoor-e-ain'. In-fact when Muslims will be in paradise, 'hoor-e-ain' will complain to ALLAH ALMIGHTY, that Muslims don't give them time.
They give ALL their time to ALLAH ALMIGHTY or gatherings around Muhammad (SAW) and his (SAW) flock
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
The benefits of Afghan Jihad ?
- Pakistan didn't loose any of its territory
- Pakistani people didn't loose their freedom, their sovereignty, their power to lead their lives as they choose
- Afghani Muslims didn't loose their territory to Russia
- Afghani Muslims didn't loose any of its territory
- Afghani people didn't loose their freedom, their sovereignty, their power to lead their lives as they choose
- Pakistanis', Muslims, Mujahideen gained experience of war with super powers
- The 'jazba' of Jihad came to life! once again, which invigorated Muslims
Muhammad (SAW) said, "wars are won by 'jazba', not by superior firepower".
We have seen practical examples of that in Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc etc.
- Afghan Jihad helped in liberating Muslims from Russia The northern states like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhastan, Kyrghystan
These are the biggest. I can go on and on and on about the benefits of Afghan Jihad, if you want more
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Qazi sb. has done a lot for this nation over the years. No Pakistani can claim otherwise.
Qazi sb. can't be blamed for crimes of Pakistani people. Qazi sb. can't be blamed if people didn't want to come to the path of justice.
- In Pakistan's history, MMA movement has been formed 2 times. JI was part of it under Qazi sb.
MMA was a movement of 'UNITING' Muslims of Pakistan under ONE banner, UNITING them for one purpose.
MMA is a 'political movement' that will INSHALLAH surface once again in the future.
- Qazi sb. has been invited by delegations of many Muslim nations to resolve their disputes
- China invited JI for talks about Muslims in China. JI took a full delegation to China for negotiations
Why do you think China never conducts such negotiations with PPP's govt. ?
- Qazi sb. organized protests against Pakistan's signing of CTBT and NPT treaties, when ALL of Pakistan was DEAD SILENT on this issue. NO! one in Pakistan was doing anything about it. Govt. of Pakistan was ready to sign them
- Qazi sb. / JI / religious political parties were at the fore-front of the 'restore the judiciary' movement. Media never highlighted them. So you might not know about it.
Where were you at the time ? W T H were you doing at the time ?
- Qazi sb. sits in the courts even today, when there's hearing going on, on NRO.
- Go to NWFP, FATA and ASK people of that area to compare the rule of MMA with that which is going on right now.
Perhaps you haven't seen Talat's programs in which people of NWFP were screaming! against NWFP and Federal Govt. on the incident in Bano Bazaar. None! of the people there blamed anyone like Taliban or any other entity. They blamed ANP's provincial and PPP's Federal Govt. for that incident.
You should find that program from Talat, when he covered that incident.
You should'v listened to Vice Chancellor Islamic University in Talat's show. He didn't blame Taliban or Pakistani Taliban or our Muslim extremists for it. He blamed foreigners for it in Talat's show.
Perhaps you forgot how people of Pakistan were throwing stones on Rehman Malik's motor-cade when he appeared in Islamic University. Those people weren't blaming Taliban for it. They blamed Govt. of Pakistan for it.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
When has Qazi sb. EVER used Afghan Jihad for his promotion ?
Do you EVER see him using Afghan Jihad in election campaigns ?
Who do you think was helping IDPs when govt. + Pak Army was busy in creating more and more of them ? It was JI, it was religious groups, political parties, it was these extremists!
Qazi sb. / JI leadership spent 3 full days with IDPs in their camps.
@jaypk: What have you done for IDPs to date ?
W T H were you doing at that time ? Enjoying your life ?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@jaypk: I'm done for my first dissertation.
There is still a mountain of facts I haven't mentioned yet. There is still a mountain of what Qazi sb. has done for Pakistan that I haven't talked about.
I'm going to give you a chance to bring counter arguments. Let's see how your arguments hold up in the light of ALL those facts I mentioned above.
To declare a jehad, it is the responsibility of Government, not the odd mullas.
When Pakistan was involved in Afghan Jehad, the government of Ziaul Haq, although was involved in it but was lying publicly that they were not involved in the sending men and ammunition in Afghanistan. Such a ‘munafiqat’ can not be called a jehad.
In recent times, call for jehad by odd mullas had become a joke. They play with the emotions of innocent Muslims to get political gains and mint money thereto. The result of such fake jehad is adversely being faced by innocent people of Pakistan in the shape of Law and Order situation, Kalashnikov Culture and Suicide Bombings.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@adnak: You are welcome to your opinion. However, your understanding or knowledge of 'conditions' under which Jihad is allowed is flawed.
Jihad is not restricted to the 'consent' of head of state in ALL cases.
Different laws exist within Islam in this regard.
adnak
Very right.
a) Jehad has to be called by state.
b) USSR came to Afghanistan on the request of Kabul government. Similarly , Pakistan had sent troops to Saudi Arabia in 70's/80's.
c) The prophet PBUH had set the example by not declaring war until u have got diplomatic relations. He first revoked 'Treaty of Hadeeba' and then attacked Makkah.
where as in 'Fasad of Afghanistan' , pakistan still had diplomatic relations , publically denied its participation . So , it was definately munafaqat.
But , all these arguments can't convince those who made millions and billions of $$$ out of this.
jaypk
Member
@haris....i m feelin sleepy at this time..i ll give u a detailed answer tommorow...!!
@sufisoul...may be to an extent you are right tht thr was a fear but nuthin was obvious... we supported it but do you think tht by helping afhganis against USSR we saved ourselves... you are saying tht sending help in the name of jihad was the only way to save ourselves...is tht how a country saves itself..by sending a few forces under the table to fight a civil war...and thn make it genuine by calling it jihaad....and thn if this is nt enough we justify it by saying tht we helped US or in other words US used us.....so thr are so many reasons to justify us...but how it helped pakistan at that time...and even now....is the question..!!
'Different laws exist within Islam in this regard. '
There is a law of petro-jeh--- as well . Right ?
Haris Khan
"Jihad is not restricted to the 'consent' of head of state in ALL cases.
Different laws exist within Islam in this regard"
Therefore, different mullas give different Fatwas about jehad creating confusion and divide amongst the Muslims.
Haris Khan, your understanding or knowledge of 'conditions' under which Jehad is allowed is flawed. Jehad is to be ordered when Muslims are prepared enough and compatible to the strength of opponents, otherwise it is ‘suicide’ not ‘jehad’.
adnak
And very importantly it has to be for the sake of GOD not for $$$$.
jaypk
Member
@harris....mate...you have gone a bit too far too quick...!!
anyways i ll try to come back at my pace...by the way...nice to see tht line which says "wht the he** i was doing and enjoying my life"...these kind of sentences makes me think again and again abt yer rude behaviour and character. is tht whd your islam teaches you?..no wonder you are following it properly..!!
also i dont knwo whay you have given so much evidence in terms of qazi sahab where this is not needed here since the topic is about afghan jihad not qazi sahabs intentions and contributions but if you are saying so i ll take it as a notion tht you want to jsutify him as well..!! if i have anythin abt qazi sahab i ll write it in the relative thread.
to start with..kindly tell me the name of that surah from which you have quoted the ayat about qital.
if deprivation of basic neccessities has been self inflicted by pakistanis......thn dnt you think all the JI supporters and whoever is preparin to go fr jihad is not pakistani.....since they have zero this and zero that...and becasue they allow injustice and thr is zero justice n bla bla....thn instead of going and fighting jihad wouldnt this be better to do sumthin in the country fr the establishment of justice?? how would you justify being a pakistani citizen..if it has been self inflicted thn you and i and all those who just want to go to jihad are all added in this and we have to sort this issue first. is it the justification tht since we have issued been smashed uopn us because of our wrong deeds ..we shud go and do jihad in afghanistan...!!
@harris..When you talk about the basic principle of 'allowing people to live their lives', Pakistani nation again has ZERO! reason to complain about it. Pakistani people intentionally! brought it on itself
are you and other guys like you are not pakistani..?are you alien..!! why dont we do sumthin fr our country first and thn go on borders with the jazba imaani.!!
i didnt ask you to list me the problems of pakistan...whd i asked you was that why we prefer going and fighting in other countries war in the name of religion while our own house was at fire or is at fire?
and you quoted tht Prophet PBUH said Muslims are like body, when one part feels pain, the other also feels it................and you are interpreting it that if one part feels the pain thn muslims of the region should stand up and take weapons and start a fight?? is this yr interpretation of this hadees....if this is right thn you need some serious counselling my friend since war was the last thing ever comes in the mind of our holy prohet PBUH. yes if you are making this hadees and any verse from quran the justification to jihad and interpret it in your own version thn khuda he hafiz hay ap sub ka.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@jaypk: The ayah I quoted above is from Quran, Surah Nisa, Ayah #75
jaypk
Member
@haris,,.thanks fr tht..i was bz sumwhr else.....i ll try to come back on all this tommorow...!!
btw..u didnt answer tht if all the problems had been self infclited on us becasue of our own mistakes thn how this is all linked with afghan jihad...and do you mind sayin sumthin abt all whd i said in another post...? your comments..on this..!
"we boast abt afghan jihad and tell each other proudly tht his son particiapted in afghan jihad and we have done our part...do they (afghanis) even deserved to be helped..The Prisoner of War should not be slain. "No prisoner should be put to the sword" a very clear and unequivocal instruction given by the Prophet(PBUH) and what we muslims did after wars...When General Dostum's fighters took Mazar-e Sharif from the Taliban in 1997, they threw prisoners into wells and tossed in grenades to finish them off ...The Taliban settled the score when they recaptured the city in 1998...and its all been captured and reported...so this is how we twist a noble effort in islam..this is how we spoil a noble cause and give it a bad name....werent they both muslims....wasnt tht a part of afghan jihad..wasnt tht been named as jihad..are these the ppl fr whom we think participated in..an called it jihaad."
BaliMA
Member
I dont get these people who dont notice the poor and sick people all over Pakistan. They dont help the needy in Pakistan lekin jihad karnay jumpain lagatay Afghanistan pohanch jatay hain.
jaypk
Member
@haris..Jihad is not restricted to the 'consent' of head of state in ALL cases.
Different laws exist within Islam in this regard.
and whd is tht law?
jaypk
Please do not ask difficult and controversal questions from Haris bhai. Aap ko pata nahee unka blood pressure barh jata hai. Agar kutch ho gaya tou?
jaypk
Member
@adnak.Agar kutch ho gaya tou? ...
..:)...he has written so much..only fr me...i was busy in another thraed..let me just get a share frm his knowledge ..!
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@jaypk: My friend, if you don't understand Islam, why are you blaming others for it ? If common sense is not very common to you, why blame others for it ?
Tell me ..;
1) What is the meaning of the word 'self inflicted' ?
2) What does this word imply ?
jaypk
Member
@haris.if you don't understand Islam, why are you blaming others for it ? If common sense is not very common to you, why blame others for it ?
..:(....
and whd abt my questions? :(...plz...tell mee naa haris bhai...you strongly support afghan jihad...right..thn why northern alliance and taliban used to kill each other everytime they come in power..is that jihad as well? is tht whd our prophet(PBUH) has told us to do with the prisoners of war?
@ hariskhan
You are welcome to your opinion. However, your understanding or knowledge of 'conditions' under which Jihad is allowed is flawed.
Jihad is not restricted to the 'consent' of head of state in ALL cases.
Different laws exist within Islam in this regard.
This is the same reasoning taliban use to claim they're on haq, and have the right to slit anyones throat who oppose them. ah! Had these people not deviated from traditional Islam, we wouldn't have this mess here.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@UmeR: Please watch the following programs;
1) Jirga dated 05-Nov-2009
2) Jirga dated 12-Nov-2009
before I talk further with you on the subject.
P.S. I haven't called for anyone's death yet. I'm discussing topics here. That is hardly something for which I can be called a Taliban like person.
@jaypk: This discussion is not related to Northern Alliance. Please stay on-topic.
Northern Alliance;
- is a minority
- does not represent the people of Afghanistan
- are group of criminals
- are envolved in making drugs
- are envolved in promoting drugs (checkout Gen. Dostam)
- are allies of US
They are being used by US in Afghanistan right now.
You are very right UmeR
Afghan resistance as a result to this unjustified occupation is legal and justified. No one, Muslim or else will agree to an occupation of his/her country and will resist with what ever means available. Muslim Majority Afghanistan calls this as Jihad. This should not be a pain in any way to the occupiers and their supporters.
Pakistan is facing what it deserves by leaving out 'hired hands' on their own (by not decommissioning them properly) after American aims were fulfilled.
Here hired hands are those that were recruited from Pakistan and trained to fight Russian occupation. Now Pakistan is deep into committing blunders once again and made to believe it is fighting criminals, while these players are recruited through the strength of dollars and made to fight Pakistan, posing as Taliban.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
ALL of those who think Afghan Mujahideen or those who fought Afghan Jihad are envolved in what is happening in Pakistan should hear Gen. (R) Mirza Aslam Baig's words which he spoke towards the end in the program;
- Islamabad Tonight dated 3-Dec-2009
Yes, Pakistan didn't repatriate Mujahideen. That was one blunder. The other, more recent blunders were to collude with US Govt.;
- in the war on terror/operation enduring freedom (turmoil)
This is against one entire Surah of the Quran.
- to allow it to conduct drone attacks within Pakistani territory
If Venezuela and India can ground US drones, why can't Pakistan do it, especially when these drones fly from within Pakistani territory.
Pakistan would restore its self respect if it grounded drones, if it sidelined itself from the war on terror.
jaypk
Member
@haris,
bhai tu kyun support kar raha hay yar is jihaad ko..trust me u r foolin yrself....
ok so you are syin northern alliance is off topic...and they are crooks and they are druggies....so do you support taliban thn? simple question...u dnt support northern alliance..but do you support taliban thn??
besides...whosoever was it...in afghan jihad...there is no reasoning or justification fr helpin thm...it was helpin US at large..!!
toamin
member
northern alliance has irani influence due to farsi and irani are indian friendly. during russian resistance pakistan didn't support them much and only focused on pushtoons who have always been pro-pakistan.
northern alliance always had complained to pakistan for discrimination but we never cared and put our bets on pushtoons.
in 90s it is was american plan to stabilize the region through pakistan backed pushtoon taking over so that pipelistan dream could be realized, but pakistan/amrika learned about pushtoon independed mind after they took over the country
pushtoons rejected pipelistan dream of amrika so soft change plan failed in 90s.
it was same rehman malik who used to go with maj gen naseerullah babar to negotiate deals with taliban
after 2001, pakistan had two options, either to hand over afghanistan to india or to support pushtoons who were against india, so pakistan chose to play double game to not let india take over afghan
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
You are wrong. It was not helping US at large.
If Pakistanis' wouldn't have helped Afghani Muslims, there would have been no Pakistan on the face of the earth today to talk about.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@jaypk: Tell me ..;
1) What is the meaning of the word 'self inflicted' ?
2) What does this word imply ?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
If;
- Northern Alliance was not a bunch of criminals
- it had leaders who didn't mercilessly kill people
- Northern Alliance didn't run drug trade in Afghanistan
Gen. Dostam for example, has professional drug making factories on the land that he controls inside Afghanistan.
- people like Gen. Dostam and other drug runners weren't Northern Alliance
I would accept them as representatives of the people of Afghanistan.
If Northern Alliance stopped committing crimes, I would accept them as someone who represented people of Afghanistan. Yet, this is not reality, even after passing of decades.
To date, Northern Alliance has never been in power because of indigenous support of Afghani people. They have always come to power with support from US or Iran etc etc. (Gen. Dostam and others Northern Alliance came back to Afghanistan under Karzai govt. that is US backed) That is a reality. That is the truth.
It is a fact inside Afghanistan, no foreign power has ever subdued Afghani people. Not even the mightiest of the super powers. Afghani people simply don't accept foreign rule over themselves.
The reality on the ground is, Taliban didn't have to fight anyone in Afghanistan to establish their government. They don't face any resistance among the people even today. People of Afghanistan openly welcomed Taliban wherever they went. They were handed over power by people of Afghanistan.
The same remains the truth today. That is why it is repeated all over the world -> Taliban have control over 80+ % of Afghanistan's land.
So, what does common sense say ? What is right and what is wrong?
P.S. Taliban in Afghanistan are indigenous Afghani people. Some from Pakistan may have joined them. That doesn't change reality.
jaypk
Member
"haris...You are wrong. It was not helping US at large.
If Pakistanis' wouldn't have helped Afghani Muslims, there would have been no Pakistan on the face of the earth today to talk about
wahh saeeein waaah...kia logic dee hay..so russians were abt to invade pakistan...and humara saga amreeka came to help us...lolzz.!!!
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I asked you some questions. Don't try to change the subject.
@jaypk: Tell me ..;
1) What is the meaning of the word 'self inflicted' ?
2) What do these words imply ?
mistehbab
members
US never wanted to help Pakistan.
If US wanted to help Pakistan, it would have sent the military frigate it promised us for our support back in 1971 when India took Bangladesh from us.
toamin
member
Due to russian invasion of Afghanistan, Pakistan had it's own security and regional interests at stake.
The West had greater interests at stake, number 1 being threat to world oil routes.
mistehbab
members
US already has or is in the process of establishing 14-24 military bases in this region, some of which will also be in Pakistan.
US military forces in Afghanistan are positioned at two key locations;
1) around the oil/gas pipeline route
2) on Afghanistan - Pakistan border
US has military control in the Middle East region. It was extorting oil from Saudi Arabia before, now it has forces in Iraq, which has the second biggest oil assets after Saudi Arabia, in the entire world.
Tell me that's a coincidence :|
jaypk
Member
Due to russian invasion of Afghanistan, Pakistan had it's own security and regional interests at stake...
so whd we did as a sovereign nation...was to sent a bunch of mujahideen in the name of religion to help the neighbour...so tht they stop the invader before comin to invade us....!!lolz
and becasus of the mujahideen we stopped russia frm invading us...!!
woh shutar murgh ki misaal hay na..jo rayt main sar day kar samajhta hay k main safe hoon..!!
toamin
member
Not send bunch of people in the name of religion to help the neighbor, the idea was to support insurgency that was developed indigenously.
That support to insurgency gave Pakistan not only 'strategic depth' but also access to central asian market. India had been dreaming to access central market since long and being on Russian side they would have easy access.
Baloch insurgency was getting support from Russia which was also a security threat for Pakistan.
Pakistan wanted to secure western front from communist super power who had friends India and pro-indian Iran.
Pakistan's support for home grown insurgency came in after 2 years when the locals established their might in front of the world, only then West came forward to support the locals.
...just some random glimpse to give more elaboration..
To understand how this drama was staged:
US relations with successive communist regimes in Afghanistan had been volatile since the April 1978 communist coup, the “Saur Revolution.” The accessible KGB record remains garbled on a key event in the downward spiral of the US-Afghan relationship prior to the Soviet invasion of 1979:
the still-mysterious February 1979 abduction and subsequent killing of US Ambassador Adolph Dubs. The materials, provided to CWIHP by defected KGB archivist Vasiliy Mitrokhin (published as “The KGB in Afghanistan,” CWIHP Working Paper No. 40, available at http://cwihp.si.edu), suggest that the Amin regime, against the advice of the US embassy in Kabul, had authorized the storming of the hotel where the ambassador was held by three terrorists associated with a radical Islamic group. It remains unclear why the KGB recommended the execution of the only terrorist who survived the hotel storming of the hotel before US embassy personnel could interrogate him. Dubs had in fact advocated a wait-and-see policy toward Kabul and had favored the resumption of Afghan officer training in the United States, which had been suspended after the communist take-over in 1978, eager as other State Department officials to avoid forcing Kabul to rely solely on the USSR.
But by early 1979 relations between the two countries were rapidly declining. Following a meeting with Amin , Carter Administration NSC official Thomas P. Thornton recounted providing a negative assessment of the regime that influenced the US to suspend its assistance program to Afghanistan, a decision reinforced by the “Dubs Affair.” In mid-1979, the Carter administration began to provide non-lethal aid to the Afghan resistance movement. The Reagan administration would indeed inherit an active program of covert military aid to the mujahideen that had begun in December 1979 (though some conference participants suggested that a US funded arms pipeline was in place as early as August 1979—an assertion repudiated by some of the CIA officials present).
In the early 1980s, under the leadership of CIA Director William Casey, this aid program expanded into a sophisticated coalition effort to train the mujahideen resistance fighters, provide them with arms, and fund the whole operation. In 1980, the government of Saudi Arabia decided to share the costs of this operation equally with the United States. In its full range of activities, the coalition included the intelligence services of the United States, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, and China. According to the former CIA station chief in Pakistan, Milton Bearden, at the height of the covert assistance program in 1986-1987 the coalition was injecting some 60,000 tons of weapons, ammunition, and communications equipment per year into the Afghan war.
Reference:
Towards an International History of the War in Afghanistan,” organized in April 2002 by the Cold War International History Project (CWIHP) in cooperation with the Woodrow Wilson Center’s Asia Program and Kennan Institute, George Washington University’s Cold War Group, and the National Security Archive.
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