LalBichoo
Blocked
Plzzz discuss,
Was there in fact a central authority in the form of Khalifah in Ottoman Empire who used to command all Muslims then ?
Was there any Ummah who died on 3rd March 1924 ?
Is concept of Ummah an abstract concept or there exists some Ummah in this spatio-temporal world ?
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/march3rd-wish-me-as-i-feel-very-lonely-today#post-124899
RajputPuttar
Member
lalbichoo,
Bahi choor daaey . Sakoon haai forum parr tu kiyoon uchall raha haai?
I think this topic has been discussed extensively without any conclusion. Its more matter of belief . So , plz don't touch anybody's belief as well don't leave your belief.
toamin
member
i agree with RP, this is a serious matter and can not be turned into a joke or chit chat for fun as bichoo is implying
irfanali898
Member
This is a discuss forum and I would like to discuss this interesting topic. If any of you have a problem with this topic than stay out of this thread.
RajputPuttar
Member
Salam Bahi,
Bahi , serious tu aap laatey haain warna haai tu acha khasa 'shuggli' topic .
irfanali898
Member
Was there in fact a central authority in the form of Khalifah in Ottoman Empire who used to command all Muslims then ?
There never was an ummah it is funny when the ottoman turks took over turkey they massacred and killed all the arab muslims but tolerated the jews and christans. People who think there was a united ummah live in a fools paradise. The ceremonial title of the caliph was first used by the ottoman turks in 1774 which was 250 years after they took over. The only thing came about through an accident and some quickthinking. It had, however, become a common practice among medieval Muslims rulers to be addressed as Caliph, but only informally so, along with other honorific titles, on ceremonial occasions. In Turkey such a practice also grew, imperceptibly and gradually. The title of Caliph came to be added to the many honorific titles attached to the Ottoman Sultan. But, formally and officially, the title of Caliph was not used by the Ottomans until 1774, or over 250 years after Selim’s famous victory over the Mamluks. In that year formal use of the title of Caliph for an Ottoman Sultan came about purely by coincidence. During negotiations with the victorious Russians of the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca, the Russian negotiators described their Empress, Catherine the Great, as ‘the Head of the entire Christian Orthodox Church’, thus laying a theoretical claim to the loyalties of Christian subjects of the Ottomans. Not to be out done, a quick-witted negotiator of the Sultannamed his master as the Caliph of all Muslims, thus laying a counter claim, to the loyalties of Muslim subjects of the Russian Empress. There was no more to it than that.
toamin
member
it is funny to read something silly like "...when the ottoman turks took over turkey they massacred and killed all the arab muslims.."
ottoman turks taking over turkey? ?? when?
lolzz...
RajputPuttar
Member
irfanali898
Bahi ,it wasn't confined to ottomomo , u need to go back and see what abbassids did to ummayyaidh. Only , Abdul Rehman the first managed to flee to spain , rest of ummayidh even didn't get coffin.
zia m
Member
Ummah had left the building long time ago.
There were Barbary pirates left..........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_corsairs#19th_century.2C_United_States-Barbary_wars
irfanali898
Member
ottoman turks taking over turkey? ?? when?
from their arab rulers. It is silly for you because if you read a book once a while your jahiliyat would not have you so amazed on history.
irfanali898
Member
Bahi ,it wasn't confined to ottomomo , u need to go back and see what abbassids did to ummayyaidh. Only , Abdul Rehman the first managed to flee to spain , rest of ummayidh even didn't get coffin
abdul rehman jumped out of a window at a dinner party in the river and ran off to spain to save his life and ruled their. He had no connection to the sultan or khalifah. Everyone at the dinner party was executed courtesy of the khalifah.
irfanali898
Member
Abul Kalam Azad was muslim traitor and a hindu agent who was against the creation of Pakistan. He was a pet poodle of Gandhi.
‘It is an Islamic Shar’i law that in every age Muslims must have one Khalifa and Imam. By Khalifa we mean such an independent Muslim king or ruler of government and country who possesses full powers to protect Muslims and the territory that they inhabit 12 and to promulgate and enforce Shar’i laws and is powerful enough to confront the enemies of Islam.’
This is the propaganda he conducted as a trojan horse for the hindu congress. He does not indicate the source of that shar'i law where that is laid down, or the basis on which he makes that statement, for he has none. He was accustomed to making large and extravagant claims without any foundation in the basic sources of Islam. It was enough for his half educated and ill-informed audiences.
toamin
member
ottomon turks taking over turkey from which arab rulers?
what do you mean by "turkey", the bird that americans eat on thanksgiving?
irfanali898
Member
what do you mean by "turkey", the bird that americans eat on thanksgiving?
do you know the meaning of the word khalifah?
toamin
member
so where did you read about ottoman turks taking over turkey from arab rulers?
kindly answer the question-
irfanali898
Member
make another thread on the topic if you need to be educated. I will educate a jahil like you fee sabil illah in that thread even though it is not my job.
toamin
member
why are you running away now?
why are you abusing me? ??
irfanali898
Member
since when calling a jahil a jahil is an abuse? do you know anything about Abbasid and Mamluks? Do a search on them to get your answer. jahil= ignorant and you my freind are ignorant when it comes to history.
LalBichoo
Blocked
Array Salam Bhiya, why don't you answer my questions raised in my original post ? :))
Was there in fact a central authority in the form of Khalifah in Ottoman Empire who used to command all Muslims then ?
Was there any Ummah who died on 3rd March 1924 ?
Is concept of Ummah an abstract concept or there exists some Ummah in this spatio-temporal world ?
toamin
member
again throwing abuses but running away from answering a simple question... lolzzz..
so where did you read about ottoman turks taking over turkey from arab rulers?
kindly answer the question-
irfanali898
Member
The abbasiads were the arab rulers and the mamluks were the turkish slaves who took over.
toamin
member
kindly answer my simple question
so where did you read about ottoman turks taking over turkey from arab rulers?
irfanali898
Member
The ottoman Turks later took over from mamluks. The mamluks were mostly Turk but they also had Arab ancestry in them also. The mamluks were a mixed breed Thanx to the Arab rulers and if you want to inquire about how they were created by the khalifah than try to study Abbasid paintings that show the dancing girls in the court which are permissible to possess by the right hand.
toamin
member
my friend do you see contradiction in your posts above?
thank you-
LalBichoo
Blocked
Oh come on Salam Bhiya, why don't you answer my questions raised in my original post ? :))
Was there in fact a central authority in the form of Khalifah in Ottoman Empire who used to command all Muslims then ?
Was there any Ummah who died on 3rd March 1924 ?
Is concept of Ummah an abstract concept or there exists some Ummah in this spatio-temporal world ?
toamin
member
let me finish with ali first :)
LalBichoo
Blocked
Where has Ummah gone ???
Is it hiding in mountains of Waziristan ?
Where the hell Ummah is ?
Where was Ummah when Jordan killed hundreds of Palestinians ?
Where was Ummah when different muslim militias killing each other in Lebenon ?
Where was Ummah when Iran-Iraq fought an eight-year long bloody war ?
Where was Ummah when 'mujahadeen' of Al-Badr and Al-Shams killed Bengalis and raped Bengali women ?
Where was Ummah when Taliban massacred thousands of Afghan civilians in Bamiyan and Mazar-e-Sharif ?
irfanali898
Member
There is a failure to understand by you which does not surprise me at all. The Abbasids were Arab rulers of present day Turkey with a different language and culture. The mamluks and ottoman Turks were a totally different people and culture from the Arabs. The Arabs from Arabia were the rulers but later on were persecuted by the mamluks and the ottoman Turks. These different people were enemies of each other and tried to colonize each other. There are simpletons who think there was one big happy family living together with any killing, fighting or difference. This was not the case.
toamin
member
lolzz... when were arabs ruling 'turkey' and when did ottoman turks took over 'turkey' from arabs?
what is 'turkey' ?
i hope this will help you understand my point :)
irfanali898
Member
The abbasid empire was ruling two thrid of present day turkey, egypt, syria and iraq.
LalBichoo
Blocked
"""what is 'turkey' ?"""
>>>
It's a bird !!!
@irfanali
Salam is playing with you :)))
toamin
member
lolzz at 2/3 of present day turkey... what books are you reading my dear :)
toamin
member
lalbichu... chorr naa bhai meray ko baat karnay do yaar :)
Dear Salam
Below is the very first message by Irfanali898 on this forum, You can understand the mindset and to decide to continue the discussion with him.
"I live overseas and continue to live in America because it is an enligtened society with freedom, liberty and tolerence. Pakistan is a intolerant superstious society. Door saie salam".
Posted 3 weeks ago on 09 Feb 2010 8:46
He even mentioned your name in his very first post :):):)
FJ
irfanali898
Member
Was Abu Kalam Azad a big chamcha of Ghandhi and was this traitor a leader of the khilafat movement?
LalBichoo
Blocked
Can any wannabe Khalifa answer my questions plzzzz :))
Was there in fact a central authority in the form of Khalifah in Ottoman Empire who used to command all Muslims then ?
Was there any Ummah who died on 3rd March 1924 ?
Is concept of Ummah an abstract concept or there exists some Ummah in this spatio-temporal world ?
Where has Ummah gone ???
Is it hiding in mountains of Waziristan ?
Where the hell Ummah is ?
Where was Ummah when Jordan killed hundreds of Palestinians ?
Where was Ummah when different muslim militias killing each other in Lebenon ?
Where was Ummah when Iran-Iraq fought an eight-year long bloody war ?
Where was Ummah when 'mujahadeen' of Al-Badr and Al-Shams killed Bengalis and raped Bengali women ?
Where was Ummah when Taliban massacred thousands of Afghan civilians in Bamiyan and Mazar-e-Sharif ?
toamin
member
Farigh Jazbati bhai,
Thank you for the reminder and kind advice and with that I put my case to rest by saying -salam door say :)
LalBichoo
Blocked
Salam,
"""saying -salam door say :) """
>>>
yeah, living comfortably in an Asian Tiger :)))
irfanali898
Member
lolzz at 2/3 of present day turkey... what books are you reading my dear :)
The abbasids were taken over by the mamluks who even though were turkish slaves but still claimed they were desendants from them by the time the ottoman turks took over from mamluks. The mamluks were ruling two third of present day turkey.
toamin
member
yaar lalbichu tu baaz nahi aye gaa... :)
irfanali898
Member
The turkish sultan/khalifah was a british agent and abu kalam azad was a tattu of the congress. They have created a myth that muslims were united under the turkish caliph. Yeh saab logoun ko bewaqouf banannay kiye liye propaganda haie. Abu Kalam Azad sarie ummar Ghandhi kaie boot polish karta reha aur phir Ghandhi ki instructions paie logoun ko khilafat kaie chakar maie daal giya.
Salam Bhai
Just watch, smile and enjoy the incitement. Soon it will increase but be patience as the other party will expose themself.
Abhi thori dair mein munh se jhaag bhi nikle gi, Hazyaan ke doray mein aisa hi hota hai, kia karen is ka koi elag nahin hai.
:)
FJ
LalBichoo
Blocked
"""[edit] Loss of Power (of Abbassid Empire)
Mahmud of Ghazni took the title of sultan, as opposed to the "amir" that had been in more common usage, signifying the Ghaznavid Empire's independence from Caliphial authority, despite Mahmud's ostentatious displays of Sunni orthodoxy and ritual submission to the caliph. In the 11th century, the loss of respect for the caliphs continued, as the Seljuqs, Khwarezmshahs, Almoravids and other Islamic rulers no longer mentioned the caliph's name in the Friday Khutba, or struck it off their coinage[4]. The Buwayhids were defeated in the mid-11th century with the aid of the Seljuks under Toghril Beg; however, the Seljuks then themselves took over de facto lordship of the Empire, and the Caliph bestowed on Toghril Beg the title of Sultan of the East and the West. The Seljuks publicly pledged allegiance to the Caliph, but left him in control of little actual terrritory beyond Baghdad.[4]""""
LalBichoo
Blocked
Bolian Amma Mohd Ali kee
Jaan Beta Khilafat pay day dou :)))
irfanali898
Member
Abu Kalam Azad was such a big chamcha of Ghandhi that he was made the youngest president of India National Congress in 1923. Is this historical fact an incitment? Azad commited himself to promoting the ideals of Ghandhi like Swadeshi and Sawaraj. Is calling him a chamcha of Ghandi an incitment? He was the leader of the khilafat Movement. yeh tu in logoun ka character haie jo Pakistan ko napakistan kehtay thay.
LalBichoo
Blocked
irfanali898,
The irony is even Mahatma Gandhi was a leader of Khilafat Movement :)))
"""In 1920 an alliance was made between Khilafat leaders and the Indian National Congress, the largest political party in India and of the nationalist movement. Congress leader Mohandas Gandhi and the Khilafat leaders promised to work and fight together for the causes of Khilafat and Swaraj. Seeking to increase pressure on the British, the Khilafatists became a major part of the Non-cooperation movement — a nationwide campaign of mass, peaceful civil disobedience. The support of the Khilafatists helped Gandhi and the Congress ensure Hindu-Muslim unity during the struggle. Khilafat leaders such as Dr. Ansari, Maulana Azad and Hakim Ajmal Khan also grew personally close to Gandhi. These leaders founded the Jamia Millia Islamia in 1920 to promote independent education and social rejuvenation for Muslims."""
toamin
member
FJ Bhai
lolzz.. pleasure is mine :)
'unligtened' society with 'freedumb', is speaking out loud with liberty and tolerance-
Salam
Did I miss something, Did anyone here defended AK Azad ?
One thing is sure, I can smell some burning here ;)
FJ
irfanali898
Member
The irony is even Mahatma Gandhi was a leader of Khilafat Movement :)))
Dont let historical facts come in the way of your myths.
Kall thak jo log Ghandhi Jiee ko Bappu Zindabad kehtay thay aaj woh us ko own up kyoun nahie kertay?
apnay Bappu ko math bholu:) aur apnie khidmat ka credit lou.
Abu Kalam Azad the leader of the khilafat movement was a chamcha of Mahatma Ghandhi and a traitor to the Pakistan Movement. His movement is a trojan horse planted by the congress.
Khilafat ka tasswar acha tha magar ab tu saray Muslim hukumraan 2 number hain ,islaiye Khalifat ka concept nahin chal sakta ?
ab tu sub Muslim mulkon ne apna Khalifa Obama ko chun liya hay ...:)
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