PKPolitics Discuss » Political Parties

Another Monster in Making?

(49 posts)
  1. khanamer
    Member

    Ziaulhaq gifted Pakistan with two monsters, one is political and other is religious, one is named as MQM and other is Sipah-e-Sahaba, both have many things in common, just like twins, although have different identity but in character both have something common and that is intolerance and violence.

    If i am right then these were the first two parties who introduced intolerance and violence, today, the attacks on the mosques during prayer are something which Sipah-e-Sahaba started back in 80s or 90s, their ideology is, whoever do not follow what they believe in should be killed and with that environment of fear and agony has been developed, one goes for prayer in the mosque and the family back home prays that May he comes back alive, this is what Sipah-e-Sahaba and its subsidiary Laskhar-e-Jhangvi did to Pakistan and in reaction Shias got themselves their armed wing and they chose the same route... and now we have Taliban who are doing the same thing but on much bigger scale. 1000s were killed when they answered the call of Allah to pray, i do not understand how can a muslim kill another muslim while he is praying, the only time this happened was when Qaramti ( a non-muslim sect, claiming to be muslim) and Mongols attacked muslims... now i don't know whom these Sipah-e-Sahaba guys are inspired from...

    In same way, MQM introduced a culture of fear and death, they killed anyone whom disagreed with them and was weaker, they killed anyone who have left them or parted his way from them. In MQM, it maybe on to make fun of Prophet (SAAW) but talking bad about Altaf Hussain can have person dead. With this attitude of MQM, the other parties of Karachi adopted the same road-map hence we have a civil war like situation in Karachi where, everyone is killing everyone, where killing the person from other party carries no guilt and where having armed wing is mandatory to have say in politics...

    and now after these two monsters, PTI, the Imran Khan's party seem to have adopted same way, intentionally or unintentionally, their ways are lot more similar then what MQM or Sipah-e-Sahaba have, if anyone dares to disagree with IK's stance, if anyone dares to challenge IK, if anyone who do not believe in what IK believes, if anyone who do not give more than needed coverage to IK and its party, then the supporters of PTI and IK would do whatever in their power to curse and abuse that ONE.

    Just for evidence, just checkout the facebook pages of any anchor person, just check out the Forum of PTI, checkout we forums where PTI workers are in abundance, just checkout the content they write and language the use and not to mention the language used by Imran Khan himself for his political opponents! and all this when they have literally no representation in parliament and holds no office what so ever, if Allah forbids, they get in power, how they will use it? by abducting, killing and eliminating persons who don't agree with them??? lately Aamir Sohail joined PML-N, which is not even a news to me, earlier certain hockey players and cricket players have joined different political parties but this time, he was targeted by PTI supporters for joining somebody who is not inline with the PTI's politcal ideology...

    I still have not got the political ideology of PTI, I understand they want to keep their identity but what i don't understand is the language and attitude IK and his supporters have? NS, their prime target may be a fool or may be he is incompetent but today his party is 2nd largest in the parliament, Zardari may be corrupt or maybe is incompetent as well but again party under his leadership is in the govt. Even don't like the policies of AZ and NS, time to time I criticize them, but that doesn't mean i must abuse them, i must call names to them??? what will happen if this party who hates its opponent to the level that they call and hit them by every medium they have access to date.

    I remember those days when battle of Lahore was on between PPP and PML-N, and i use to enjoy the political activities, the local leaders of PPP, such as Aitzaz Ahsan etc use to move in the streets, have their political camps where guys like me visits to have a piece of Burfi or glass of Milk and then visit the camps of PML-N asking what is on the menu today... smiles all the way, would that be possible with the attitude IK have?

    His attitude of "everyone is wrong and only I am right", is going to create another MQM or Sipah-e-Sahaba and this time it would be my City of Lahore, i cannot imagine that happening, I am sorry if i ever supported this guy, He is politically immature and knows nothing how to control himself or the crowd not to mention how to plan the events. To me, he is another Altaf Hussain in making who would bring nothing but destruction to my country and my city. I am far better off then corrupt Zardari and Nawaz Sharif who only takes my money but with whom i can argue.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 8:39 #
  2. 2011pakistan
    Member

    i fully agree with Khanamer view.

    the language IK use against his opponents is very much objectionable and IK does not seem from any asect that he is educated from Oxford university.

    in previous PKP discuss, i posted that IK is another Asghar khan in our politics,

    Now, I reverse and say that IK is trying to copy the style of irritated Altaf Hussain.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 8:56 #
  3. expakistani
    Member

    just one correction why we just blame Zia, MQM and Seph-e-Sahiba for all the political killing in pakistan?
    starting of Zhoor Elahi case and some i found on net....
    so why just blame 3???

    1953 DSF ( Demo student fedration ) ‘Demands Day’ More than six students were killed and several were injured and arrested. Enraged students torched a government vehicle which turned out to belong to the interior minister

    Nawaz Khan Shaheed
    Secretary of Islami Jamiat Talaba Lahore, Martyred by cruelty of government sponsored elements on 21st Oct 1985 in Government Dayal Singh college.

    In 1974 a violent campaign, mainly led by the Jamaat-e-Islami, was started against the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Pakistan on the pretext of a clash which took place between Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis at the railway station of Rabwah. This campaign resulted in several Ahmadi casualties and destruction of Ahmadiyya property, including the descretation of mosques and graves.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 9:12 #
  4. khanamer
    Member

    @2011pakistan

    Earlier i thought of IK as Asghar Khan, but the more IK speaks, the more PTI workers speaks out the more i think that he is not only Asghar Khan but have "Qualities" of Altaf Hussain as well.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 9:29 #
  5. saladin89
    Member


    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 9:29 #
  6. khanamer
    Member

    @expakistani

    yes i agree political killing has been there, no country including USA exempted from it, but Sipah-e-Sahaba and MQM introduced something which different if i might say, for example, Ayoub had his hands in the killing of Muhterma Fatima Jinnah and yes the names you have mentioned are there, but can that be compare to the fear-factor MQM and Sipah-e-Sahaba created? the former just target political leadership ( and history from the pre-historic times sugges that this has been in practice since the political setup or tribal set has been formed) but killing masses was introduced by Sipah-e-Sahaba where they sprinkle bullets while people are busy praying.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 9:33 #
  7. khanamer
    Member

    @exposed

    Sir, if you want to discuss something related to topic which says that PTI might be another monster in Pakistan's political arena then you are most welcome, otherwise what is see is that you are just trying to de-rail the thread so that the topic can't be discussed? and which BTW fully endorse what i have written in the opening post.

    PS to Mods, Can you please see that this thread just don't get de-railed?

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 9:35 #
  8. saladin89
    Member

    @khanemar

    the difference between PTI and Mr Don, N$ and Mr10% is that the latter 3 are all crooks, and all 3 of them should be behind bars for life..................

    It is like going back to nursery now, however just because some PTI members on forums use bad language against there opponents it does not make them like the three zaalim parties.

    Has IK got any corruption charges against him.?

    have PTI members murdered any citizens of pakistan?

    Is IK behind target killings?

    Now would u like me too paste nooners posts over here, so then u can see what they have been saying, but please save me the hastle and go through previous posts of nooners on different threads. Then your ridiculous arguments will be washed away. It does seem that u nooners live in a complete different planet than us, concerning language u should look at the mushadulla khan, it will become very clear to u. Or look at the dirty tactics played by noon league when it concerns other peoples wives...... despite there own laundry came out for everyone to see.

    the political ideology of IK is too bring insaf into Pakistan, and get rid of these crooks such as PPP, PML N and MQM................... education, help the poor, everything the hukumat have not been doing.

    did u really think about what u were saying, or did u just dream it up last night.................. but I think it has come from somewhere else.....

    keep it up khanemar u really make me laugh.......

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 9:43 #
  9. khanamer
    Member

    @ Saladin89

    Yes i have agreed that NS and AZ are corrupt and incompetent, you can see that right there in opening post. I have no problem accepting that, but my fears are totally different, Politcal parties are school to the political workers, which trains them to be active with certain mood and attitude on the ground. So far, this school of PTI, has either totally failed to discipline its worker or have instructed them to show the particular attitude i've referred in the opening post.

    If you read it carefully, it is about the fear of having another Sipaha-e-Sahaba or MQM type party and this time in my city and after what is going on in Karachi, i would do whatever in my capacity to keep my city and country safe.

    I am not talking about corruption, most of people would agree with me that even there is no or very few corruption cases against MQM. I am here to talk about any other party, i know how and what they are doing, i have on the internet forums from last 12 years or more may be, and i have seen the attitude of almost all the political parties, sorry to say, PTI's attitude is closer to MQM and Sipah-e-Sahaba, there was reason i mentioned Sipah-e-Sahaba..

    Look at your own post, you say, every other leader should be locked in, IK says all the political parties are Family business or some kind dictatorship, which is right, but then doesn't that applies to him as well?

    The other day, one of the PTI worker got arrested in Balochistan, what PTI did, is similar to what the others do, so where is the change??? i mean positive change, i can see the negative change coming but i have yet to see the positive change.

    Last but not least, eliminating PPP, PML etc won't do any good to the country, why hate them? they are political parties? yes they may be corrupt yes they may be incompetent but established entity won't do any good the thing you or PTI should have focused on was to change the attitude of these parties by having a positive attitude... if we eliminate all the parties on the basis that they have not delivered and keeps PTI's flag high, where will this take us??? Isn't this what MQM wants in Karachi??? that no other party have right to exist in Karachi???isn't that PTI or you saying???

    As you edited your post!
    IK is not behind target killing as yet, but did MQM's Tariq Azeem was violent person, if you look at the history and formation of MQM, it is formed by some very talented and active politicians and then all of them suddenly got killed and somehow Altaf survived... and now this is the Karachi what we have at hand, with 1000s have been killed in few days, i don't find any courage to laugh... may be you can

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 9:48 #
  10. saladin89
    Member

    @khanemar

    Brother we are supporters of PTI, and I am sure that most of us have no links to any criminal activities as such. When u talk about PTI, u need to look at there party members and most importantly Imran Khan.

    Is there any comparison with IK or AH........ AH is a political don, imran khan is not... leader of the party can show a parties worth.
    your judgement to me is baseless and has no evidence or foundation....... To say IK is similar to AH in my view is ridiculous. Or even to say that IK will become like him is even then baseless............

    They has been one incident that a PTI politician threw water on someone, apart from that they are very professional people. There is a big difference with throwing some water compared to killing.........

    concerning the point u made every leader should be locked in, yes they all are crooks and I think u have agreed with this as well. Mr10%, N$ and Mr DON, so for all the wrongs they have done, should they not be locked away....... unless u are saying lets give them slap on the hand and let them go?...........

    No brother IK party is not a dictorship or a family business.............

    Concerning the PTI worker in buluchtan i am not aware what happened but if anyone else knows they could tell me........

    Concerning eliminating PPP and PML N, brother these 3 main parties are the main problem for the crisis of this country. U say u have been on forums for 12 years but are unaware what is happening on the ground......

    There is nothing positive I can see in these parties, can u?

    No PTI is not saying this, what we are saying is if a party leader is corrupt, then he should not be allowed to run for leadership, he should bring out all his assets and declare them. This is a big difference then saying that no political parties should be allowed to contest with elections. I hope I have made myself clear.............

    If PTI comes to power inshallah u will see a massive change in Pakistan. He will bring all these crooks to the courts and they will get trialed fairly...... It will be massive brother, these crooks are one of the main reasons why Pakistan is in all this mess. We inshallah will have a leader, which unfortunatley since quaid e azam we have not had one.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 10:21 #
  11. insaftak
    Member

    Lol @ comparing pti with MQM and SS. How many people have pti supporters killed. More rubbish from noon leaguers. Throwing everything and hoping something sticks. They still don't understand that rising popularity of pti is because of corruption, tax evasion and their pathetic performance in Punjab government. The sooner you guys realize this the better for you.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 10:44 #
  12. Fazooli
    Member

    tu tu tu @
    "I remember those days when battle of Lahore was on between PPP and PML-N, and i use to enjoy the political activities, the local leaders of PPP, such as Aitzaz Ahsan etc use to move in the streets, have their political camps where guys like me visits to have a piece of Burfi or glass of Milk and then visit the camps of PML-N asking what is on the menu today... smiles all the way,"

    tum jaisay log barfeeyan aur doodh he peetay rah gayay aur kabhi apnay dimagh say na socha kay mulk kay liyay kaun acha hai.... ab PTI barfeeyon aur doodh kay bagair mulk kay liyay aagay barhanay ko kehti hai to tum jaisay logon ki shikayatain nahi khatam hoteen

    aaisay logon ko to PML-N aur PPP say doodh aur barfeeyan aati rahain, mulk jayay bhar mein, in ki bala say

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 11:11 #
  13. Fazooli
    Member

    comparing ruthless killings by MQM to comments on facebook by PTI???

    r u joking?? one can argue about the "bad language" that u have mentioned .... but can it be equal to taking an innocent life??

    u need to work on your critical analysis skills

    & @ "I still have not got the political ideology of PTI"
    the sheer lack of judgment and analytical skills as obvious from your post predicts that you will not get "the political ideology of PTI" even in 100 years

    waisay bhi barfeeyon aur doodh waloon ko yeah samjh aani bhi nahi

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 11:15 #
  14. Fazooli
    Member

    @
    "I am far better off then corrupt Zardari and Nawaz Sharif who only takes my money but with whom i can argue. "

    who told you, you can argue with Zardari & NS?
    and not with IK?
    have you been to party meetings of PPP, PML-N & PTI?

    & okay, you be "better off" with Zardari & NS... aaik din tumhain bhi baich khaeen gayay to shayad samjh aa jayay gi

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 11:27 #
  15. Dusky
    Member

    Culture of political intolerance started with Ayub who ruthlessly crush the Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah and her allies, later it was mastered with Bhutto, who refused to sit with awami league, and ruthlessly gone after who ever oppose him. Ayub and Bhutto use state power against their opponents.

    Later come the bigger evil zia and he brought us the afghan muhajirs along with arms and heroin, that change the whole dynamics of politics in Pakistan.

    As a resident of Karachi, I can witness, I have seen Jamat-Islami and Islami jamiat Talba as the pioneer of this non tolerant gun totting behavior as they were the first one to have access to the illegal arms in cities courtesy of afghan fasad. Later when MQM formed they fetch substantial number of same Jamatis in their ranks along with arms and trained main power. Later in mid 80's pathans attack on mahajirs and in retaliation MQM armed them-self get armed to teeth for their survival.

    So, no it's not MQM and SSP who introduce this non tolerant behavior, it was their way before their existence, only thing change during their time is the easy access of illegal arms to the common citizen.

    Posted 9 months ago on 21 Aug 2011 12:04 #
  16. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    @ex
    1974 movement was not led by JI.
    Ji was in Opposition but this movement created some leadership

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 7:57 #
  17. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    @ex
    1974 movement was not led by JI.
    JI was in Opposition but this movement created some other leadership

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 7:58 #
  18. khanamer
    Member

    @saladin,

    As far as comparison is concerned, there two things here, first IK have got the same habit, first have fight with others and then develop relationship, Altaf Hussain done it on metropolitan level, where on a given day he is accusing PUnjabies and joining hands with Sindhies while other day he would be hugging Punjabies and hating Sindhies... Imran is doing the same but on national level, not long ago ( 3 years in not long time) when IK decided to file a case against AH in UK, and today we are here when IK is talking to AH on phone, IK issuing statements/hints in favor of AH... There were days when IK had heated comments which goes as far as saying that I would pray be a unsuccessful politician then becoming Sheikh Rasheed and now he is with him on every other show... no you cannot say that it is fault of tv channels,

    Above two are just to scenario where the mood shifts of IK was compared with AH...

    If we lock down the whole political leadership, if we throw them out of country, if we hang them then what would left there? remember we are still suffering from the loss of Benazie Bhutoo, no matter how corrupt she was, she was far better then we have got today in PPP... this is exactly what will happen if you remove the political leadership...

    One more thing which has to taken into account is, no matter what, it is the character and opinion of masses which drives the political parties, no political party can survive or can be in govt without public support, no matter how much PTI hates PML-N and PPP, they do have support of masses and they are un-doubtly leading political parties of Pakistan, no govt can be formed without having one of them in the lead position... in other words, in one way or other, it is these parties who have kept the country intact, and have brought nationalist and linguistic parties in national stream... you remove them you open a pandora box, where every party read war-lord would be forcing its own agenda, want to have glimpse of it, look at Karachi, the mini-Pakistan.

    Here i would like to post a question to you, what would this hate-spreading-movement will eventually get?

    Remember, the official writer of PTI, Haroon Rasheed, is already making claims that PPP and PMLN have agreed to a plan to rig the coming election i would not go in details to say how ridiculous this statement is but would say, this says it all about the coming future!

    elections held, either PPP and PMLN takes lead and form gov., Imran Khan accuses election rigging and do not accept the results of elections... calls for agitation... do you think then the movement will be non-violent???? wouldn't the anarchy will takeover the country, a country which is already in middle of war with barbaric Talibans?

    The attitude of IK, ME-CLEAN-EVERY-DIRTY have made PTI workers think that they are better then everyone else and they are the lone saviors of the nation, this by itself would be inviting the sentiments to create further divisions in the nation.

    Let me do the a little analysis here, PTI/IK have no representation in 70% of the country, they have no organization (read existence) at Union Council Level a very integral part of Parliamentary form of Govt. and in the remaining 30% they are either not organized or have some really lazy or incompetent persons ( Shahid Mairaj can be quoted as example) and on top of that, there is no media team or campaign by PTI, so on what basis PTI thinks that they can form GOVT?

    The Dharna Politics which has been going through for a while, i would say that it was NET-PRACTICE for something real big, otherwise, why would somebody will have a non-conclusive sit-ins? Yes, Sit-ins are there with some AIMs, calling it against Drone Attacks and then calling against the Govt is just tactics to test the waters that at level the support is available???

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 10:59 #
  19. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    khanamer

    Zia's list of gifts to the nation is very lengthy. He gifted the nation political leaders like Altaf, Shariff Bros., Chaudhary Bros. and many more. Similarly the militant organizations he gifted to the nation are still carrying out subversive activities against the nation. The guests he invited in Pakistan for Afghan war turned up to be very troublesome guests. MQM also rose to the political horizon as a result of the activities carried out by unwanted guests in the city of Karachi. Karachi had heavy bloodbaths in the hands of the unwanted guests prior to rise of MQM.

    2011pakistan

    You interestingly reminded me of the political history of Asghanr Khan. He attracted a lot of important personalities in his party but could not win the hearts of the people. He was a successful Air Martial and a successful chairman of PIA but a totally failed politician. His performance as the Air-Martial of PAF and as the Chairman of PIA was outstanding.

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 11:21 #
  20. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    "You interestingly reminded me of the political history of Asghanr Khan. He attracted a lot of important personalities in his party but could not win the hearts of the people. He was a successful Air Martial and a successful chairman of PIA but a totally failed politician. His performance as the Air-Martial of PAF and as the Chairman of PIA was outstanding."

    Or maybe the people of Pakistan failed and thus didn't deserve a leader like Asghar Khan. His reputation is in tact and the leaders you strive for are tainted!

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 11:25 #
  21. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Dear Scandinavian

    A person successful in one field in not necessarily successful in another field. Asghar Khan probably lacked the political acumen and charisma to attract masses. He lost in the elections even from his home town Abbotabd. However, he is still by the nation as a creator of a competent air-force. He gifted Pakistan a good Air Force. The discipline of PIA was very good during his tenure as the chairman.

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 11:32 #
  22. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    You might be right, but the public cannot escape their own responsibility either. If they don't support clean leaders, then they are also to be blamed for the miseries!

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 12:06 #
  23. wantinsaf
    Member

    "I remember those days when battle of Lahore was on between PPP and PML-N, and i use to enjoy the political activities, the local leaders of PPP, such as Aitzaz Ahsan etc use to move in the streets, have their political camps where guys like me visits to have a piece of Burfi or glass of Milk and then visit the camps of PML-N asking what is on the menu today."

    First it shows your mentality:let's eat from politicians during election time and let them eat you after election.
    It is dangerous mentality.Reminds me of a slogan people like you were chanting:"Pakistan ka matlab kia,jo kujh labhdahi jaiban cho pa".Let's loot Pakistan from all sides and let politicians loot you.This has made zardari,zardari and sharif sharif.

    Which party does not have militant wing and all others have?PTI.
    which party does not provide weapon to its students organzation and all others do ?PTI
    which party's both leaders and supporters have no killing case against themselves?PTI

    That's enough to prove you were absoluely wrong.Yes,Imran is monster to corrupt,criminals,drunk and looters as he would rid Pakistan of such people and are you one them?
    It looked like someone has sent an immature person for propaganda sake.

    Posted 9 months ago on 22 Aug 2011 15:44 #
  24. khanamer
    Member

    @wantinsaf
    Please note that no what, PPP, PML, ANP, MQM, JUI, JI or you name any Political Party of Pakistan, they are Pakistani first and then they can be member or supporter or voter of any political party through out the country. PTI may thinks otherwise.

    My meetings with them was purely because i live there, i meet these people on daily basis, they are my neighbors, they are my relatives and they are business people with whom i may conduct business. Their political affiliation is not the thing which makes me hate them... you see i am not PTIan...

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 9:06 #
  25. khanamer
    Member

    To PTIans,

    Lets try to have conclusive discussion here, i am of the opinion that PTI is nothing but Monster in Making whereas you differ from it, it is your right to have that opinion and i am sure you must have some solid reasons for that.

    Anyway, like i said, lets try to make the discussion conclusive, and let see if you can come up with the comments which can change my point of view, i am entering into this discussion with open heart and mind would like to have same from you.

    So here we go:

    1) PTI/IK claims that they are going to win next general elections, i am sure you are aware of the fact that there are 272 seats in National assembly distributed across the country and in order to form govt in the Islamabad. Now the situation is that PTI is almost non-existent at UC level, yes they may have representation at District level but that is also limited to certain areas and not through out the country.

    Now i am sure you are aware of the importance of the Union Council team and its efforts in building momentum and finally convincing people to vote on the given day. With literally no representation at UC level, how PTI thinks that it can win elections? where the competitor of PTI (PPP and PML-N to name few) do have this set-up in almost all the districts and they would be using it on the day.

    The Point here i am trying to make is, how can anyone win any election when they lack the very basics of the parliamentarian form of govt. Please remember that in Pakistan, it is not the Presidential form of govt. where voters can vote their president. One have to win the considerable amount of seats to form govt or have the role of opposition.

    Can you please tell us in the light above, in free and fair elections how can PTI win when the basic bodies who mobilizes people on the day are missing?

    ================================================== ================

    Now the un-official but dedicated and maybe only respected column writer of PTI says that PML-N and PPP have jointly made their plans to rig the upcoming elections. What is he trying to say? if any of the two forms govt. then it would be illegitimate govt? and then the rest can be assumed easily, agitation against the illegitimate govt or is he trying to say to GHQ that the electoral process is dubious so no need of them, just put in the most popular party in power for cleansing?

    Can you please tell us if that is what PTI also believes or if PTI is working on mitigate the situation, things i have stated earlier ( no organization structure at root level) are enough to say that no one would be needing any rigging plan to curb PTI's candidate...

    ================================================== ============

    I would restrict myself to the above two points only for time being would bring other when above are resolved, lets discuss them and then move on to the others, on a lighter note, IMRAN KHAN once announced that PTI being the party of the young ones would not have candidates who is above 30 years of age. Does that mean, IK himself is not going to contest elections?

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 9:08 #
  26. insaftak
    Member

    @khanmer

    None of the latest questions you put forward show that pti is another monster in making? Do explain how pti is similar to murderers of MQM and sipa sahaba.

    All of the above questions you put forward have been answered many times on this forum.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:21 #
  27. scandinavian
    Member

    @insaftak

    And be prepared for repeated lies and deceptions. They are convinced that if a lie is repeated often enough then it will one sad day become a "truth". These dinosaurs still live in the past and have not realized that people NO longer trust them!

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:26 #
  28. insaftak
    Member

    @scandinavian

    I am still waiting for an answer from intellectually corrupt noon leaguers to help me understand how pti is similar to the murderers of MQM and sipha sahaba. I expect the op to run around circles and divert attention to other issues.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:31 #
  29. khanamer
    Member

    @ PTIans,

    I wanted to break discussion in phases to reach the conclusion, but i think for some reason it was not possible for you to grasp the idea. i wonder if you have red the post ?

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:34 #
  30. khanamer
    Member

    @insaftak

    You will get answer if you answer the comments i made, but i think either you are not in mood or not interested in anything which can drive the conclusion of my Opening Post and thread title.

    The Choice is your brother ( i am sorry if you get offended if i call you brother, because i donot belong to PTI community)

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:36 #
  31. insaftak
    Member

    @khanmer

    Yes I get offended when people compare me to murderers of MQM and sipha sahaba. Do enlighten me how pti is similar to these murderers so I can ditch pti and join pml(n) indirect taxation wala inqiulaab.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:41 #
  32. khanamer
    Member

    @insaftak,

    If you can answer the questions i posted above, then yes you'll get what you are asking for, but if for some reason you cannot, then just hold on, let some other PTIan with more knowledge on the party affair come and answer those.. till then i guess you have to wait and yes, i do hold the view and have reasons to believe that PTI would be next SSP or MQM type party and bring dire consequences.

    If you can answer what i raised above, well n good, if you cannot, still it is ok, but please till somebody else from PTI answers it, have patience.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:47 #
  33. insaftak
    Member

    @khanmer

    I actually have enough information on pti. I just missed the secret militant wing by pti some how that has been busy murdering people. I beg you to tell me about it so I can stop supporting this terrorist outfit.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 10:52 #
  34. khanamer
    Member

    @ insaftak,

    Please read the post again!

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:01 #
  35. insaftak
    Member

    @khanamer

    I have read your post brother. You did compare pti to MQM and sipha sahaba.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:10 #
  36. khanamer
    Member

    @ insaftak,

    Oh yes i did and did said that "It is in Making", Now if you think you have enough knowledge to answer the concerns i have raised above, then lets please continue, and as i have said in that very post,that i am entering into this discussion with open mind and heart, so if you think that i have baseless assumptions then lets discuss them... lets not move in circle, lets move forward!

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:15 #
  37. insaftak
    Member

    We wil move forward when you show me the training camp we have set up to train pti-ans the art of gureilla warfare or you could just admit that your claim that pti is going to be another murderer party like MQM or sipha sahaba was rubbish.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:20 #
  38. khanamer
    Member

    @ insaftak,

    Thankyou for your time and posts, you have proved that you either know that answering these would point out the elements/issue which will make PTI a monster in future or you simply are here to waste your time.

    Thanks for your participation.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:28 #
  39. scandinavian
    Member

    @KA

    Stop dreaming and come with proves instead of this useless propaganda!

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:31 #
  40. insaftak
    Member

    @khanamer

    As I mentioned in my earlier post that you will run around in circles and then divert the attention away from the topic.

    I have to applaud you. You are an expert at it.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:33 #
  41. khanamer
    Member

    I'll wait for the answers on my points raised above from PTIans, i am sure there are many who would be able to answer the points above and discussion can move on. where either i'll end being wrong in my initial remarks or may be PTIans and others agrees to the point i have raised.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:36 #
  42. scandinavian
    Member

    @insaftak

    "I have to applaud you. You are an expert at it."

    It's the "hard work" (lies and deception fo ordinary people) they put in their political work. It consists mostly of circular arguments ;)

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:38 #
  43. saladin89
    Member

    @khanemar
    reply to your earlier post

    I think u are right brother but u have got the wrong person, the monster is N$. let's see.............................

    "here two things here, first IK have got the same habit, first have fight with others and then develop relationship"

    yes N$ fights with people to a higher degree, remember his fight with MQM, and what he was saying too AH wife, then the reply which came back from AH. Then N$ also said that he will never do an alliance with MQM, then what happens recently they are having meetings with one another trying to do an alliance.....

    So N$ trying to shake hands with Mr Don and having meetings with him, then Mr Don kicks him out of bed...... after making love to each other....

    IK on the other hand one phone call...

    who is the monster....... lets see who changes colours

    what about fighting with PML Q and saying I will never except them back to my party again, then what happens he pays them and some come back to his party....... which in fact gives him a label of LOTA..........

    Then what about all the fighting between PPP and PML N on television, but then we see N$ trying to find a girlfriend for MR Zardari..........

    Another similiarity between AH and N$ there love for India, recently N$ had an historical speech where he was pleasing his indian audience, and said that our gods and yours are same, i am sure u will agree with me, what a sick person he is..... and we know AH love for India...........

    Also N$ allowing AH into Punjab, why brother? these terrorists coming into our Punjab, because they both have the same agenda INdia!

    They both have assets abroad, see these two are similar

    They both also in hukumat?

    So therefore brother i will just say thankyou for showing me who the real monster is N$$$$$$$$$, his plan is to loot and loot money from Punjab and then he will burn Punjab and run to India! thanks again u have shown me the truth.......
    Brother we will never allow this to happen............

    concerning your point of haroon rasheed it is ridiculous a intelligent brother like u to say what u said, these crooks have been rigging votes which could take us to guiness book of records! 45% jaali votes it is an open secret...... have u been sitting on the moon.........

    brother neither do our hukumran have representation in our country, 45% jaali votes brother, and what has this representation done to us, apart from misery..........

    brother like IK say's everyone should be accountable and these leaders are corrupt to the core, murders and thieves that's what they are. we need a positive change and get away from these crooks.

    as for level support the independent I say again independent polls have suggested Mr10% and N$ put together have cannot beat IK........

    Oh yes they still have the jaali vote campaign, which could bring them 90% votes next time..................

    so conclusion N$ and Mr Don are brothers in arms, both should be locked away in prison. we need to save ourselves from N$, he will loot and loot and then run to INdia. in fact he is a bigger monster than AH..............

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:47 #
  44. khanamer
    Member

    ^^ Good Post, brother, Iftar time is near and i've to prepare for that but would try to take discussion forward with you tomorrow, i would appreciate given the fact that you have time to read and comment on the other post which is http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/another-monster-in-making#post-258795

    I think we need to clear our heads, if iam wrong then i must be corrected because after all none of us want to feed any destructive force or want to stop any party with constructive approach. and as i said, i normally enter discussions with open mind and heart and never get annoyed if found wrong.

    Hope to have constructive discussion here... let see if we can have one.

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:54 #
  45. saladin89
    Member

    @khanemar

    Also i forgot to mention when N$ was exposed concerning he was willing to give away our state secrets, as long as as he can lick Kim Barkers feet. Monster, see he does noit care for Pakistan, or Punjab, but his agenda is India, make as much money by looting people and then running too India.. and most probably AH will follow behind.

    What do u think the meeting with these two was really about, it was concerning India brother, that's what

    No wonder brother army does not trust him, he will give our secrets away to his slavemasters US and India.

    thanks again for showing me who the real monster is................

    yes brother come back tommorrow and i will give u some more.............

    I think I have figured out what your problem is........... and due to copyright law I am not allow to say........

    Posted 9 months ago on 23 Aug 2011 11:56 #
  46. wantinsaf
    Member

    @khanamer

    what do u mean by 'monster in making'?
    what does a 'monster in making' has anything to do with grass root level organization?

    You moulded the point because u had realized that ur earlier propaganda has badly failed.

    Now tell us whether u want to talk about 'monster in making' or 'PTI is not organized at grass root level'?

    I know lots of people like u come here,they start abusing us fist(u were trying to point out we are about to be political terrorists) when they face opposition they start showing soft corner for us(PTI needs to be organized at grass root level).What a u turn,bro?

    For heaven's sake,people like u have fooled us for last 60 years and now we are awake and no more propaganda would work.

    Posted 9 months ago on 25 Aug 2011 17:06 #
  47. quaidkamazaar
    Member

    how dumb can one get to assert that MQM was created by ZiaulHaq?

    answer is a plain NO... it was not... otherwise why would his military courts give Altaf Punishments like 9 months and 5 slashes for "burning the Pakistani flag" at quaideazam ka mazaar?

    its plain rubbish. get to the gist of it, MQM was created because of racism. if someone throws my baggage out of my dorm room because I am urduspeaking, I will be pissed off and retaliate. Thats exactly what Altaf Bhai did, but brainwashing has blocked some peoples thinking.

    Posted 9 months ago on 25 Aug 2011 18:03 #
  48. Rizwan Qaimkhani
    Member

    Everyone here is an expert on creation of MQM. There are some who consider MQM RAW agents, than there are some who thinks MQM was created by ISI and to some it is ZIa who created it. Pick a story people!

    Posted 9 months ago on 25 Aug 2011 19:50 #
  49. khanamer
    Member

    SO far the points i have raised can be summarized as:

    1) Non-existence of PTI at UC level, something which is essential for any political party or something which any political party targets from day one, yet at after 14 years, PTI have very little or no presence at the root level, one may wonder why?

    2) The Columnist of PTI, Haroon Rasheed, has saying that PPP and PML-N have agreed to rig the coming election in order to defeat PTI and Only free and fair election can guarantee win for PTI... one may wonder, why would Zardari have to partner with PML-N and viceversa and as per the so-called agreement who would be winning the so-called rigged election??? and what is the criteria of free and fair election??? win of PTI? which is non-existent at root level? and now this is the sentiment with the PTIans...

    3) Again, the Change is what PTI is selling! but what the means? to get that change, so far with their attitude they can be called as regional party, just like MQM or JUI or May be like Sipah-e-Sahaba kind of parties

    4) Blind following is another trait which can be seen among the PTIans, they normally are so blind that they would agree or do anything their leader Imran Khan has to say, these traits have been hall-mark of our over-all political environment and it is evident that the blind following have not given any positive results.

    5) And then comes politics of hatred, Like MQM and Sipaha-e-Sahaba, PTI have based its politics on hatred, they hate everyone, until that person joins them. The hatred is (currently) to the level that they are not even ready to listen anything positive about the one the hate... and with this hate, comes love for their leadership, which as i said earlier is blind.. they don't see what the leadership is upto, how many QALABAZI he have made, all they know, whatever Imran does is right... even if he asks these hard-core followers to start a violence movement (for which taliban would be provide all the arms and ammunition and training) then again it would be assumed as of betterment of the country...

    One would argue why these points are so important, to me, all political parties are elementary schools where they train and educate their political activists to be tolerant (the basic lesson of democratic society) today whatever we are witnessing is result of non-tolerant culture followed by base-less accusations on the rivals... and we all may agree that this have brought us the mess in which we are living today and continuing and supporting the same culture would do no good in future...

    The Young blood, with heart full of hate for everyone and with easy access to weapons, how long would it take PTI to become a monster is the question which the time will only answer, i sure hope that it never happens that way, but with the non-existent 2nd-tier leadership (same as MQM, their 2nd tier leadership is only a mouth piece and cannot dare to say anything which the Master Peer of London don't approve), everyone claiming to directly reporting to IMran Khan killing the basic organizational chart and with no political training for tolerance it would just matter of time...

    I know no PTI member can answer, there policy is to blame everyone else ( in future it would be to play victim) and to say that Shuokat Khanum and Naml University is the only good thing ever happened to Pakistan and if there is any good done by anyone then and that anyone is not Imran then that could not be a good thing...

    Posted 9 months ago on 27 Aug 2011 10:05 #

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