shimatoree
Member
The concept of " Chosen " people is quite old. In Recent times the Jews have taken this license and claimed their divine right to the land of Palestine.
As I read various comments made on this web site- I get the feeling that a lot of people here seem to be implying the same for the Muslims.
Is it possible to have a rational discussion about this difficult topic?
Can you divert it to Pakistani's as people of GOD instead?
We seems to have a lot of "attention" these days. Call it our SINS or we being the choosen one? Or Perhaps it's the early sign of the arrival of BLACK BANNERS from north west of Pakistan?
shimatoree
Member
KS-
This idea of Muslims as a nation appears to be much more prevalent in Pakistan. I have had the occasion to meet many people from Muslim countries such as Iran, Iraq, saudi Arabia, Algeria, Egypt etc etc. I failed to see this phenomenon amongst those people.
My thoughts on this came about after reading quite a few of the comments where a lot of people seem to be implying that Muslims" are the chosen people of God.
The very selective use of this exclusivity baffles me.
And what is even more baffling is that it appears to be based on a belief of sorts which is required for anyone to join.
Objectivity, intellectual honesty, reason etc are discarded at random.
Do I smell Fascism of a certain kind ?
toamin
member
Are Muslims the Chosen People of God?? Or why not ask it this way 'are muslims choosing God Almighty'? because it is human being with his/her will to 'choose' what he/she wants to believe in...
Abdul Rahman
Member
Murad Hoffman, former German Ambassador who embraced Islam talked on the subject. Read the full text in the link
http://www.isesco.org.ma/english/publications/New%20Muslims/p6.php
"In brief, I have started considering Islam as it is, the True Faith which has not undergone any distortion – a faith which trusts in the One and Only God Who “He begets not, nor was begotten, and there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him” (Surat Al-Ikhlas, Verses 3-4). I deemed it as the first monotheistic faith which did not undergo the distortions found in Judaism and Christianity. What is different in this first faith, is that it does not consider its followers as God’s Chosen people."
Islam rejects the idea of chosen people, making belief in God and good actions the only way to heaven. Thus, a direct relationship in established with God, without any intercessor. The Qur'anic term believer means those who believe in God, do not attribute divinity to others and work righteously. Unlike most other religions whose followers believe that salvation is reserved for them only and all the others are condemned to hell, the Qur'an in several verses lays down a fundamental doctrine of Islam that there are no chosen people and that God judges every one according to his deeds. With a breadth of vision unparalleled in religious faith, the idea of salvation is made conditional upon three elements only; belief in God, belief in accountability on the Day of Judgment, and righteous action in life. It clearly negates the Jewish belief that their descent from Abraham, entitles them to be regarded as God's chosen people.
And they say no one shall enter paradise unless he is a Jew or a Christian. Such is their wishful thinking! Say: cite your authority if you speak the truth. Nay, whosoever surrenders his whole being unto God while doing good, his reward is with his Lord: and all such need have no fear, and neither shall they grieve.(2:111,112)
Abdul Rahman
Member
Concept of Chosen people is wrong according to Michael Wolfe another new Muslim from America
Michael had a foot in two religious camps for he was born to a Christian mother and Jewish father, having the opportunity of celebrating both Hanukkah and Christmas. He writes:
My father had been a Jew; my mother Christian. Because of my mongrel background, I had a foot in two religious camps. Both faiths were undoubtedly profound. Yet the one that emphasizes a chosen people I found insupportable; while the other, based in a mystery, repelled me.
His immense travel experiences and zeal for books exposed him to Islam and could not resist the gravitation pull towards the religion of Islam. One of the reasons which made him find Islam appealing is his discovery that Islam was compatible with his desires.
zia m
Member
Depends on which god?
Jews created Yahweh, they were his chosen people.
Christians created Christ, they had to be his chosen ones.
Arabs chose Allah. they along with Muslims became His preferred ones.
Romans, Egyptians and Greeks gave up on their Isis, Osisris, Zeus and the other gods and adopted the newer ones.
The gods are still evolving, we still have a chance of finding the One who cares about all His creation.
Stay tuned!
zia m
Member
Don't have a rebuttal hence delete the comment.
Care to explain why?
PS:Thanks for restoring the above comment.
naseemkhanan
Member
@zia m
Now look who is here! Star of pppcritical. What happened that you are here inspite of spewing venom againt this forum. Shame on you.
When you claim you have nothing to do with religion than buzz off to somewhere else. Why spoil it for others?
zia m
Member
@Naseem
I don't think i know you.
Venom against who?
You have any arguments or are you directing traffic?
I did not start this thread.If it is offensive to you please have it closed or moved to F&R.
Naseem, zia m is among the most rational of bloggers. Right or wrong, he does not indulge in venom-spewing but arguments based on reason. I don't think it's fair to insult him and dismiss him out of hand. Rather, one should argue it out with him man to man.
As for the Chosen People, I'd say rather we are the Burdened People. Our religion has grown to such immense proportions, spread the world over, we no longer know how to handle our Islam. Technically, we are not the Chosen either since our doors are open to any who care to convert. No, not the Chosen People, but followers of the Universal Religion.
Khan_Sahib, are the Black Banners really coming?
This thread has reminded me the scene from the movie Fiddler on the Roof.
When Tevye (the main character) is fed up with all the problems he is facing in life, he looks towards the sky and says the following
O God, I know we are chosen people but cant you choose someone else.
FJ
naseemkhanan
Member
@MG
I have seen you are a regular contributor at pppcritical therefore it is possible you know how many are talking against our forum and this includes zia m.
He may be a rational blogger but claimed to be non religious. So what is he doing in this thread.
zia m
Member
"He may be a rational blogger but claimed to be non religious. So what is he doing in this thread"
If all the religious bloggers promise to stop commenting on secular topics, i promise to stay away from religious topics.
hkbajwa
Member
I actually find the concept of "Chosen People" to be a rather disturbing thought and also a very slippery slope.
It is the "Chosen People" mentality of the jews that have made them such a pain in the a$$ for the rest of the world. When your congregation consists overwhelmingly of people born into the rleigion and they are inculcated with a sense of superiority on account of being the "chosen people" from their childhood, it gives rise to an arrogance akin to the one we see in our more violent and intolerant fundo types in Islam.
It creates a false sense of entitlement based on nothing more than affiliation to the "right" faith group. This in turn gives rise to discrimination towards people from other faiths and ultimately justifies draconian laws like the apostasy law and blasphemy law.
I believe instead that Islam is the chosen PATH and anybody whose actions and intent follows this path irrespective of affiliation is a muslim. God does not judge you on whether you SAY you will follow the "right path" but rather on whether you DO.
Every man must be confident in his faith and his belief in allah, but humility is a fundamental requirement for a muslim and the "chosen people" concept cannot co-exist with humility.
hadi26
Member
Here is a bit of a wake-up call for the "Chosen people" of the "Land of the Pure". Enjoy : )
hadi26
Member
Naseem Dear, I do contribute to the ppp blog for various reasons. That's why I felt entitled to speak up for zia m. Others might spew venom there occasonally. He is wholly rational in debate.
Now as for not being religious, true enough. He's experimenting with the charms of scientific thought and so-called truth. So what? Do you think when the time comes, Allah Talha will not bring him back to the fold again? Many a Muslim has gone astray, as one says, and then returns to the faith of Allah over time.
PKpolitics is open to all, as far as I know. We hear all kinds of arguments here, for and against all kinds of things. That's what makes it one of the best blogs going, and now I mean worldwide. Let's not mess that up as well by being narrow-minded.
We two don't know each other well, but I always read your comments and so far have found them to be extremely relevant and loyal.
Back to PPP forum. They are in their infancy. I have always protested when I find them taking aim at their adult *rival*. Over time they too will lose that stupid habit or then simply fold up. Competition is fine, so long as it is fair and above personal insults. And, I hope you'll agree, that this also applies to our various fascinating exchanges on this blog.
Buck up, Naseem, you're a loyal soul, and that's rare in this day and age. But Islam is above insults. And pkpolitics will fulfil its precious role of teaching us Pakistanis to debate with one another without hard feelings on any side.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
achtung
Member
all living beings are allah's creation. any creater love his creation. so allah loves all. may be he love more those who love his creations but he love all. allah is high beyond our imagination. he has no chosen people.
fayyaz214
Member
Abdul Rahman has covered the topic of Chosen People very well.
@zia M, would you please open a topic, outlining your questions about God or please refer me to a blog where you have already discussed that. My feeling is your dis appointment is with the people who claim to be followers of God and God himself.
scindian
Member
Primitive and current humanity across the globe have suffered from Pain, epidemic disease, apathy and helplessness during war or Natural disasters,In order to relief from miserable life on earth, which is full of grief God and gods of every religion have promised their followers to be placed in Heaven.
Ellah of Jews have promised them the permanant life in Heavens (Hebrew shamayim = heights" or "elevations")where they can achieve every thing they will achieve peace and desires which they couldnt got during life on earth.
Our Allah has promised his Last Prophit (PBUH) that all Muslims Ummah will enjoy eight types of heavens, A Muslim who weighs more "Sawabs" Good deads, will be accomodated to Jannat ul Firdous 8 th great heaven.
But any Muslim (he or she) who has commited sins, after punishment they will be placed in Jannah of lower grade and slowly whole Muslim Ummah will treated with same way.
Simmilarly all religions have provision for thier followers to be placed in eternal palce of happiness.
fayyaz214
Member
@scindian ... I beg to differ with you regarding the concept of Islam on this topic .. Abdul Rehman represented concept of Islam well above .. please refer to following verse of Quran as an example
And they say no one shall enter paradise unless he is a Jew or a Christian. Such is their wishful thinking! Say: cite your authority if you speak the truth. Nay, whosoever surrenders his whole being unto God while doing good, his reward is with his Lord: and all such need have no fear, and neither shall they grieve.(2:111,112)
I do agree, that what you presented as concept of Islam is the concept that is attributed to Islam by some Muslims. But when you read Quran you get a different story.
scindian
Member
Yes you are right regarding conditions of entering the Heaven that all Muslims will not enjoy Heaven.
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