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Ayub Khan 6 Sep 1965 Historical Address [Orignal Voice]

(28 posts)

  1. amin1924
    member

    Interesting!

    http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1170953866632&ref=nf

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 6:55 #

  2. amin1924
    member

    You see how meaningless Pakistan is without Lailahaillalah!

    Without Ideology of Islam that unites all nations under Pakistan, there is no unity.

    All nations are fighting for their rights, but against who?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 8:49 #

  3. gv
    Member

    incidentally we started that war, my grandfather led one of the first troop movements into occupied kashmir so this speech is propaganda at best.

    The problem with islam as a single unifying factor is that islam is itself divided into sects, fiqhs what have you.

    For me islam is simple: accepting that there is one true god ) and muhammed is the man who was entrusted to brought mankind his message(tauheed/shahadah) which is essentially to live a righteous life and protect the weak in your society (Zakat)and remain in touch with your inner spirituality (salat, rozay and hajj).

    unfortunately it doesn't stop there - multiple interpretations entail a variety of islams... so people end up picking whatever suits their personalities and environments and constantly bickering with each other on who is more correct and therefore more superior...

    i don;t want to argue because i know your view is different from mine i'm just airing my thoughts on this

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 9:47 #

  4. amin1924
    member

    Leaving all your propaganda aside and just giving you one fact which is still true today that is the Ideology of Islam brought Muslims together under the flag of Pakistan.

    If you take out this identity or ideology country will break up easily.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 11:23 #

  5. gv
    Member

    i think that held in a hindu dominated india but no longer holds for pakistani's today - also that was more poignant to the muslims of UP, hyderbad and bengal where they were in a minority, muslims in what is now pakistan took no interest in the pakistan movement until the 1940's

    things are not so black and white mr. jj

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 11:31 #

  6. shahzad1924
    member

    Muslim's didn't take interest in politics until the khilafat movement. that was the turning point in the history of the sub-continent. it was such a strong movement that even gandhi joined it because he felt that this could change the history of the sub-continent and put an end to the British Raj.

    so, Muslims of the sub-continent became "political" because of Islam. and they gathered under one flag because of Islam. and if there is one thing that can gather them again, that is Islam.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 11:38 #

  7. gv
    Member

    @shahzad

    read "Separatism among Indian Muslims - the politics of the United Provinces'muslims 1860-1923" by Francis Robinson

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 11:42 #

  8. amin1924
    member

    The idea of LaIlahaIllalah is the core idea that still remains as the core bond between Muslims of various ethnicities in Pakistan.

    I am aware of history of Pakistan movement, so let us not spray things around and stick to the main subject of thread that is Ayub Khan's speech.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 11:58 #

  9. gv
    Member

    by your own comments the thread appears to be more about islam being the sole unifying factor for pakistanis than ayub khan's speech. i was merely responding to your post above-

    Once again i think that indian muslim politicians from muslim minority areas used the slogan of islam to rally the masses which is a pretty cynical use of religion to further their personal ambitions which were more concerned about their socio-economic security as a social class than their fellow co-religionists.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 12:22 #

  10. amin1924
    member

    So you are saying that Pakistan movement was cynical use of religion to further personal ambitions of politicians from Muslim minority areas?

    Just think once before you make such nonsense arguments.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 12:41 #

  11. gv
    Member

    I think that's exactly what i said, except maybe ambitions is the wrong word to use..

    to rephrase

    "....the pakistan movement involved a cynical use of religion to gather mass support by muslim leaders from muslim minority areas to protect their personal socio-economic security and identity as a social class "

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 12:45 #

  12. amin1924
    member

    By saying that do you know what it means or which people it involves?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 12:52 #

  13. gv
    Member

    no actually i just rather enjoy fashioning fancy sounding sentences out of thin air....

    what do you think? why don't you stick to debating instead of questioning me

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:02 #

  14. amin1924
    member

    What? Is questioning not part of debate?

    You have just accused whole leadership of All India Muslim League so I wanted to clarify your allegation.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:08 #

  15. gv
    Member

    yes i stand by my accusation - that does not mean i am denouncing the pakistan movement - i am merely stating that i believe that is how islam was utilised by the muslim political elite in india in order to achieve their objectives.

    the support for my argument lies in the total lack of support that theleague experienced in muslim majority areas like the punjab and the frontier...

    i would appreciate it if you would question specific points in my argument rather than my understanding of it.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:16 #

  16. zjshami
    Member

    "You see how meaningless Pakistan is without Lailahaillalah!"

    Here one has to understand who is raising the slogan of
    'Lailahaillalah'?

    Is it from the Qauid-i-Azam or from Maulana Moudoodi?
    Is it from Allama Iqbal or Abul Kalam Azad?
    It it from Abdul Sattar Edhi or Mulla Omer?

    Sometimes a good slogan becomes meaningless when it is uttered by a person without credibility.

    That is the real issue Pakistan is facing today.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:20 #

  17. amin1924
    member

    Yes the AIML was rooted in areas that are currently under India or Bangladesh.

    But you have started to get irritated, so I guess we stop here because I don't want to disturb the harmony.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:20 #

  18. gv
    Member

    and this speech is another classic example of the power elite utilising religion to further their own political ambitions...

    The truth was that pakistan attacked kashmir first but instead of being honest about it he had to spin some story about the wicked 'buzdil' hindus attacking us unprovoked in lahore...

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:21 #

  19. gv
    Member

    ok i apologise for sounding short or irritable... lets continue

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:22 #

  20. amin1924
    member

    Yea, I kind of agree with you.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 13:33 #

  21. gv
    Member

    @jj

    thanks, good to know we agree on something.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 14:06 #

  22. amin1924
    member

    But, the people did support the movement and got united for the cause and that is what matters to me.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 15:15 #

  23. shahzad1924
    member

    i know this isnt a good example, but anyway; even when the US wanted to defeat Russia, they used Islam to promote Jihad in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    its simple. only Islam can unite the Muslims and once this sleeping giant awakes, that will be the end of the US hegemony

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 15:21 #

  24. gv
    Member

    you are welcome to that i personally do not believe it is appropriate to use religion to rally public support in order to further or secure my own (class) interests

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 15:24 #

  25. amin1924
    member

    Yes Shahzad, Exactly.

    The reality and examples of unifying through this bond are numerous in history...again... numerous.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 15:30 #

  26. amin1924
    member

    gv,

    Yes, I agree with that. It is immoral to deceive people.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 15:30 #

  27. zjshami
    Member

    It is hard to believe that all the sects of Muslims could be united, ever.
    Only a certain section or group can be emotionally motivated and exploited in a particular region, temporarily.

    A wish of Universal Muslim Unity is just an allusion and dream.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 16:06 #

  28. amin1924
    member

    Thanks for your comment on sectors, but this is another discussion.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 16:23 #

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