PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion

Bangladesh bans religion in politics

(292 posts)
  1. khanseena1
    Member

    Time for Pakistan to follow, ban all religious, ethnic and sectarian parties.

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/32308/bangladesh-court-bans-religion-in-politics-law-minister/

    DHAKA: Bangladesh’s Supreme Court has reinstated a ban on Islamic political parties after striking down a key constitutional amendment, law minister Shafiq Ahmed told AFP on Thursday.

    In a detailed verdict released late Wednesday, the Supreme Court scrapped the bulk of the 1979 fifth amendment, including provisions that had allowed religious political parties to flourish and legalised military rule.

    “Secularism will again be the cornerstone of our constitution,” Ahmed said.

    After independence from Pakistan in 1971, Bangladesh’s first constitution made secularism a key pillar. Following a 1975 coup, the army-led government amended the constitution’s guiding principle to “faith in Allah” in 1979.

    Religious parties, which were banned in the original 1971 constitution but legalised by the 1979 amendments, are now banned again as the “faith in Allah” provision has been thrown out, said Ahmed.

    “Islamic parties cannot use religion in politics any more,” he said.

    In 1988, a second military-led government made Islam the state religion in the Muslim-majority nation and incorporated Quranic verses into the constitution. Neither of those changes are affected by the court verdict.

    “But following the scrapping of the fifth amendment, these later amendments can now be challenged in court,” Ahmed said.

    In the verdict, the Supreme Court declared the 1975-1990 military rule illegal, and recommended punishing military dictators, Ahmed said.

    Since the Awami League’s landslide election win over the Islamic-allied Bangladesh Nationalist Party in 2008, the government has cracked down on Islamic groups and political parties. The new government outlawed one Islamic party in October last year, accusing it of destabilising the country.

    Four other Islamic organisations, including the Jamayetul Mujahideen Bangladesh, were earlier banned after they carried out a series of nationwide bombings that left 28 people dead in 2005.

    This week, the four leaders of the country’s largest Islamic party, Jamaat-e-Islami, were arrested by the country’s fledgling war crimes court, set up to try those responsible for atrocities during the 1971 independence war.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 15:22 #
  2. Great News!!

    They have done the right thing to ban religious parties taking part in politics. Participation of religious groups is the biggest source of corruption. Politics is itself a dirty business let alone religious parties further corrupting it.

    Now I wonder why they wanted independence from West Pakistan!

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 15:28 #
  3. We too need a leader like Hasina Wajid and a party like Awami League to ban religious groups in Pakistan. Our current Govt is incompetent to take any action against sectarian-promoting religious parties and other terrorist groups like Lashkars and Talibans. May be we can have Sheikh Haseena Wajid for 6 months to fix up our problems.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 15:34 #
  4. Islamist parties and their program over the 20th century has been an utter failure. They were used as bulwarks against the "danger of godless communism" by the west, and were somewhat welcomed by the masses, but their approach, their corruption and their incompetence has shown that the "political Islam" approach is still-born.

    If people of Muslim countries are well educated, a democratic system will bring those values up from the grassroots.

    The program of the so called "religious" parties is to get power and force a version of "Islamic" morality from top down using the state power and it doesn't seem to work and they all have lost their souls in the process to get that state power.

    Funny thing is, one of the main religious parties (JI) was against the creation of both states. It was verbally/principally against Paksitan, but it fought in the war on the side of the West Pakistan army and was instrumental in creating the "Shams"/"Badr" militia's.

    It is interesting to see it do a backflip and now wanting to play instrumental roles, nay wanting to mold the countries in it's own image, countries it didn't consider legitimate to begin with.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 15:49 #
  5. @Ghost of TK

    Well commented

    Jamat Islami is mother of all evils. Their sectarian agenda and extreme policies are strongly disliked by millions. Few days ago, Bangladesh Govt banned Moudoodi literature in their country and now this step is a right step in the right direction.

    I wonder why we didn’t transfer power to Awami League (a secular party not like PPP) who had won an election through a legitimate process. Bhutto gave in to illegitimate and immoral pressure of religious Right in the rest of the Pakistan and did stupid things to appease Fasadi moulvis. PPP should learn lesson from Awami League.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 16:00 #
  6. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Those so called 'leaders' of Bangladesh have put their masses in terrible pain, as a result of this decision.

    They have opened up the door for a handful of people to rule over the masses.

    Pakistan has gone through 60+ years of system of secularism. Look at where the masses have gotten to, as a result. In many respects, our people are worse off today, than they were at the time between 1947 - 1970.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (1) Bangladesh has chosen a path of self destruction, self annihilation

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (2) Politics is not a dirty business. Its been 'forcefully' turned into dirty business by 'criminals'. What more can you expect from criminals ?

    The problem in this era is, the masses think of criminals as their benefactors. For 60+ years, our people have done so and gotten no where.

    Our people need to learn from their mistakes, wrongdoings, wrong decisions.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (3) Religious groups are like, a breath of fresh air, like a breeze of fresh air, in their move to;

    (a) take away power from criminals
    (b) restore power to good people, to initiatives of 'goodness'

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 16:31 #
  7. achtung
    Member

    what a great decision by bangla desh.

    they will move forward now with great speed. pakistan will left behind from bangla desh also.

    and remember, bangla deshi people are better muslim then pakistanis.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 16:38 #
  8. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Ghost of TK: You should thank JI for what it has contributed, for what it has done for Pakistan, for people of Pakistan, since Pakistan came into being.

    If JI was not around, Pakistan would have long gone in the dark holes of history books by now.

    Your ignorance of what JI has done for Pakistan, for people of Pakistan is the cause of your irrational 'outcry'.

    JI has in-fact 'fought' to save Pakistan from being conquered by foreign imperials on more than occasions in both Pakistan's and JI's history.

    JI has done far more than your meager knowledge of their activities. Your view of JI is filled with biased, incorrect nonsense fed to you by those who subscribe to secularism.

    Open your eyes, take off these glasses of bias, come down to earth, come on neutral ground, show your acceptance of the objective truth. When you'r ready, I'll show you a glimpse of what JI has done for Pakistan, for people of Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 16:43 #
  9. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Sweettruth: What do you know of JI's policies ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 16:49 #
  10. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @khanseena1: Secularism = injustice. Secularism = Injustice of mass! scale/proportion(s).

    I pray to ALLAH ALMIGHTY, as well as vow to struggle my hardest against this injustice of mass proportions inside Pakistan, inside ALL of Muslim UMMAH if ALLAH ALMIGHTY allows me for it.

    These are the sentiments of millions of people of Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 16:50 #
  11. @hariskhan

    I know everything about Jamat Islami, their dirty politics and autocratic policies based on sectarianism and extremism. Half of my relatives are Jamati and I have spent 4 years in Karachi University observing/witnessing Jamiat ghundagardi and badmashi 5 days a week.

    Pakistan should also follow Bangladesh example by banning all sectarian based religious groups and Jamat Islami should be banned first with Moudoodi literature.

    We need Awami League in Pakistan to take bold and correct decisions to save this county from total disaster. Lashkars, Talibans, Jundullah, Jamat Islami and several dozen other similar terrorist groups have one common agenda and that agenda is total destruction of Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 17:05 #
  12. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Sweettruth: You sound 'irrational' to me. If I were allowed, I would go as far as to say you sound 'delusional' to me. Why ? Because;

    (1) You'r consistently putting up 'idle' 'statements', rather than 'facts', 'evidence'
    (2) Your going off-topic, knowingly, repeatedly
    (3) Your mixing too many things, rather than sticking to what we are talking about
    (4) You'r not ready to talk on one specific point at a time

    In essence, you'r running away from the discussion, from the topic at hand. Your attempting to gulp this discussion by 'putting up too much irrelevant crap for anyone to process'.

    There's a lot of arguments about student unions, plus politics within student unions. I'll discuss that topic on a separate, dedicated thread. Its not relevant on this thread. Nor will you be able to beat me in an argument on that topic. I have too many facts to put up.

    Having said that, please!, you'r mixing too many things. Let's stick to the topic at hand, shall we ?

    I'll ask again. What do you know about JI, its policies ?

    Please, answer my question.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 17:28 #
  13. @hariskhan: Your delusions of grandeur about JI and it's "contributions" to Pakistan are spectacularly fantastic.

    I think the handi-work of JI is out there for everyone to see. Anyone who has ever lived through the daily hell of ghundagardi perpetrated by the jamatia ghoonda's in any educational institution suffocated by these feinds will not believe a single of word of propaganda spouted by shameless JI advocates.

    They talk the big talk, but their walk is horrible and contrary to everything their brochures claim and their "advocates" whine about.

    Religious parties are a failure, they have no role in politics. They either need to become full fledged religious preaching and self-help groups or become part of the political process without shoving Islam (conveniently "their version") down everyone's throat. In a diverse population like Pakistan, these narrow interpretations of Islam as a "system" are untenable.

    One word describes Political Islam: Stillborn.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 17:51 #
  14. @bitterlies
    "We need Awami League in Pakistan"

    I thought we already had the 'Awami League": "Pakistan Peoples Party" :-P

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 18:05 #
  15. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Ghost of TK: There is no delusion here. JI's contribution to Pakistan is real. Its 'irreplaceable' by far.

    The Pakistan Mr. Jinnah attained would have been lost long ago, if JI wouldn't have contributed to Pakistan, to people of Pakistan.

    Those who subscribe to secularism took every decision, every action they could 'afford' to take to destroy Pakistan. In-fact they are still up to this treachery, in more ways than one.

    I can give you an uncountable amount of examples if we have an objective look at what has been happening in social, financial, political, judicial realms inside Pakistan, since it was created.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (1) Ghunda gardi ? Do you really want to go there ? Do you want me to talk about 'ghunda gardi' ? I can also put up 'ghunda gardi' of those who subscribe to secularism, of people of Pakistan in general, other than those in religious groups.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (2) Religious parties are not a failure. It is people of Pakistan who are a failure. Those who subscribe to secularism are a failure. I can prove this through rational arguments

    No matter how much you deny it, religious groups do have a good amount of presence in Pakistani politics. Plus their presence has saved Pakistan from self annihilation, from extinction, on more than one occasions.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (3) How is Islam being a 'system' .. something 'narrow' ?

    How do you substantiate this claim ?

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (4) I can also define secularism in one word. Secularism = injustice

    In-fact I want to define it in three words. Secularism = 'mass! scale injustice'.

    I can prove my point my with rational arguments from social, political, financial, judicial realms, if you want an objective discussion on the topic.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 18:20 #
  16. @GTK
    "One word describes Political Islam: Stillborn."

    Hardly! :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 18:23 #
  17. its Bangladesh's internal matter so its they who can say things about all this but what I see in this is Awaami League must be using their control just like their four parties collision Govt. used it in previous Govt. of Bangladesh....Awaami league has 2/3 majority in Bangladesh and the biggest threat they had was from JI of Bangladesh in the past...

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 18:43 #
  18. @lota

    Nah! PPP is not like Awami League; true party of public is Awami League which represents/respects public views. PPP can easily give in to unfair demands of religious Right and PPP leadership do not have guts to take strong actions. Bhutto gave in the past when under pressure from religious groups he declared a minority group non-muslim. Is this the job of the State to decide people's religiosity?

    Bring back Awami League; we made a mistake not accepting them back in the 1970s. They were better than PPP and today by banning religious thugs in their country they have proved they are party of awam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 18:49 #
  19. shirazi
    Member

    Bangladesh is certainly on right track. They took actions against Generals and mullahs something we can only dream in Pakistan. In today's Pakistan we can establish secular state if it's up to small provinces KP, Sind and Balouchistan. It's the Punjabi establishment and JI's deep roots in that that pulls us back. Banglis took the right decision in '71 when they separated themselves from this mafia.

    I remember Zia ul Haq built the hype around '83 or so that President will have very important announcement on 14th August. There was a huge media campaign on PTV and newspaper. There were columns written full of speculation what will President announce. Few optimists even suggested he may announce elections or may even go step further to take off his uniform. To everyone's surprise he just announced nizam e saalat. There will be registers in mosques where records will be maintained who came for prayer and who didn't?

    I am glad for Bangladeshis it's all history ... I wish I can say same for Pakistan ....

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 18:54 #
  20. @Sweettruth

    To a big extent nota is right that Awaami League is very much resembles PPP because like PPP Awaami League also had problems with Military of their country and just like Bhutto Sheikh Mujeeb was also killed by Army but in different style of course....in terms of Corruption they also position as before previous Govt. Awaami League was badly accused of same charges which PPP Govt. of past are accused with and same Exile leader...

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 18:59 #
  21. Whatever someone might say but yes Bangladesh is going on the right track because Religious Politics in Bangladesh has harm them even more then seculars so its their dynamics which any Bangladeshi can explain but another thing which is to consider here is that now their JI is in a complete decline and the word "razakar" and this word is used as a slang in Bangladesh by majority of people so not much reaction is expected among people because neither their media is that much strong to provide other's point of view and nor opposition is that much strong but yes one thing which could get things up side down is Bangladesh military which is not to strong for Bangladesh defense but they are enough to take care of their Politics if things went bad...

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 19:06 #
  22. @gazi23

    Do you live in a dream world? Bangladeshi JI has never been a political threat to Awami League; only Khalifa Zia is the threat to Haseena Wajid. JI struggles to win seats in Bangladesh as they do here in Pakistan and you care calling them the biggest threat for Awami League. What a load of non sense!
    I know Mansoora provides training to their members to spread dis-information and false propaganda but there is a limit to fool people.

    @hariskhan

    JI's contribution was first to oppose creation of Pakistan by calling Jinnah Kafir Azam and the they played dirty role through Albadar and AlShams militants in Bangladesh during 1970s; people of East Pakistan have not forgotten negative role of JI. Religious groups have totally failed in Pakistani politics and you can see their falling popularity and support for Talibans is the last nail in their political coffin. Just tell me an assembly seat which JI can win on their own anywhere in Pakistani political system without criticizing political/electoral system.

    We should appreciate actions of Bangladesh Govt for making a right decision to ban sectarian based religious groups. They have set a precedence which I hope other countries will follow in the years to come. Pakistan should be first country to take such an action to defeat religious thuggery which is prevalent in today’s Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 19:09 #
  23. @Sweettruth

    Go check Bangladesh previous 4 party collision Govt. in Bangladesh you will understand their JI has got some support their...The thing that you are mentioning about their JI is last election while they had couple of seats in previous election where they formed Collision Govt of 4 parties becoming 2/3 majority...anyways the tables are turning in Bangladesh wonder when Pakistan realize this...

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 19:40 #
  24. raheb
    Member

    That's a VERY Clever by BD. Exactly what Pakistan needed, is to put a total ban on so called 'religious parites' as they are bearing a big responsibility to destruction of the country and Islam itself. There teachings are NOT Islamic and by that carrying a poor, bad name to Islam and muslims.

    By banning such stuff DO NOT mean 'secularism' as Mr. haris ia crying for. In fact here exist the difference of Deen and Religion.

    1) If religion is ONE then what it means "Religious Parties"?
    Obviluosly, they all have their own 'religion' and want just that religion in power (each and every religious party)

    While DEEN is ONE and written in QURAN - The CONSTITUTION.
    It is every days laws, a system which runs collectively, NOT controlling a individual's personal handlings, or personal beliefs. It should NOT be any bodys headache that to whom I believe, if I do my salaat or not, if I do fast or not, what I eat or drink etc etc etc, as I am myself responsible of my handlimgs and just answerable in front of Allah (exactly according to Constitution- Al Quran.
    But these so called religious parties fanatics, go around and do Gunda Gardi and try to become my super ego, my inner judge, my moral etc etc etc. THEY should be Banned.

    2) A wast majority of the country LOVE Islam and obey Islam and want Islam, its our (mine too) IDENTITY. I am NOTHING if I don't call myself Muslim. But these fanatic minorities are destroying Islam and are counter productive as youth feel and sick of that islam which these parties or their mullah leaders claiming as 'islamic. We should NOT forget that all such parties where against Quaid-a-Azam and oppose Pakistan and Two Nation Theory. Today Haris Khan and company getting Big mouth to claim their role in Pakistan and living in FOOLs Paradise that thanks to such element Pakistan still exist!!!!

    Love Islam, Love Pakistan, but get rid of so called 'religious parties and their dirty politics on the name of Islam, They are BLUFF.

    raheb

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 19:47 #
  25. @HarisKhan: Please stop broad-brushing everyone who disagrees with you as "secular". Not that there is anything wrong with being secular. You need to identify what people are saying and argue based on whether the point is right or wrong instead of dismissing it as "secular"

    Also, I don't see substance in the claims re-iterated. Two wrongs don't make a right. This is why even Maudoodi condemned actions of IJT when they used violence in the beginning. After that, they've all become quite good at using violence to enforce their diktat and calling it "Islam".

    @nota: okay, maybe DOA? (the kakamamie Qutbi project, not Islam)

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 21:33 #
  26. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Ghost of TK: Noted. Ok. So you don't subscribe to 'secularism'. Let's see how it goes then.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (1) Repeat: IJT is not the topic of this thread. I will not discuss IJT on this thread.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (2) There is a 'literally' 'hell' level of problem with being or wanting to be a 'secular'. What problem ?

    Being or wanting to be;

    (a) 'secular' as I see through the knowledge that I have is, 'being' or 'wanting' to be 'loyal' to AntiChrist (in urdu: 'Dajjal') in real life

    (b) of character of 'Muslim' as I see through the knowledge that I have is, 'being' or 'wanting' to be 'loyal' to ALLAH ALMIGHTY

    There is a 'zameen aasman' (in urdu) of difference between the two. And I can also produce rational arguments to demonstrate the 'why?' as a result of my statement. Having said that, again, this is not the topic of this thread.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 21:53 #
  27. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @raheb: (1) Do you subscribe to 'secularism' or Islam ?

    I see you rejecting that which Islam says, even that which comes from the Quran. That's no small 'deed' or 'wrongdoing'. Its a very .. very serious issue.

    (2) What's so great about 'secularism' ?

    (3) How does secularism benefit people of Pakistan ?

    ..and please! stick to factual discussion. I don't want 'idle statements', 'idle speculation', bogus crap, non-constructive talk, etc etc.

    (4) Do you propose secularism as the 'solution' to our problems in Pakistan ? If yes, why ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 22:00 #
  28. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @gazi23: How is this Bangladesh's 'internal' problem 'only' ?

    Do you understand;

    (1) the standards ALLAH ALMIGHTY has set for Muslims ?
    (2) Islam ?
    (3) what Islam says about Muslims ?
    (4) what Islam teaches us Muslims ?
    (5) the way of life Islam proposes ?
    (6) the standards of Islam, of Muslims ?

    I am starting to doubt you do.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 22:10 #
  29. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @raheb: Yes, there is divide among Muslims. Yes, we are not one at the moment. But that doesn't mean you repeat this point on public forums in a non-constructive way.

    What is your contribution to improving on this situation ? Are you doing some sort of struggle to end this nonsense of division ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 22:15 #
  30. @HarisKhan:

    I do subscribe to secularism and proudly so, but its my own brand (I can do it because there is no secular dogma same doesn't apply to religion per se). I just pointed out that you are calling everyone "secular" no matter how nuanced their opposition is to what you say. That's all.

    I don't consider IJT to be different than JI. History bears out this observation.

    I would like to posit that the first intellectual battle in Islam was about the separation of "church and state". Let me put this in familiar terms. It was about the separation of the political power from spiritual power.

    The whole fracas over who would be Caliph, as the Prophet's body lay unburied and what transpired between Abu Bakr, Ali and Fatima (and how she lost her child) is a matter of record.

    This was all about political authority being separate from religious authority (Ali was the bearer of that or so claims a sect)... Sunni Aqeeda is all about this.

    I would even go so far as to say that the concept of the separation of "deen va daulah" is an Islamic concept. Simply because most of the lands conquered by Muslims were 95% non Muslim (and a large source of revenue). What differentiated Muslims from other empires or their henchmen was that Muslims were not total A-HOles to their subjects.

    The current policies adopted by the pretenders to that post, the talibs and condoned by JI and ilk are diametrically opposed to it.

    Muslims had to have a secular form of government because they were governing half the known world and 95% of the subjects had their own religions. These populations turned muslims after hundreds of years of Muslim rule (and through the gentle works of the Sufi Mystics like Data, Bulleh shah and countless others).

    The narrative that these populations were converted by the sword is a western invention and the illegal, illegitimate, minority sects like the takfiris and their talib offshoots are buying into this propaganda when they go around forcing sikhs to become Muslims (or else!)

    I don't know of anything more secular than "lakum deenukum va'liya deen"

    nuuf said.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 22:16 #
  31. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @raheb: I have repeatedly said on this forum/community, people of JI had 'intellectual' difference with Mr. Jinnah, with PML on a handful of topics.

    That doesn't mean JI or its people had 'personal grudges' against Mr. Jinnah or PML.

    I will not accept that part of it which is wrong. Having said that, I will also not accept the extra baggage of nonsense attributed with JI or workers, members, etc etc.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 22:18 #
  32. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Ghost of TK: So, you subscribe to 'secularism'. Ok. Let's see how this goes.

    Most of what you said is utter BS!.

    How do you substantiate so many claims ? I don't see any facts behind your words. Only 'spread' of the same old 'propaganda', which in other words is called 'utter nonsense'.

    There is no division or separation between Islam + power/politics. Power/Politics is but one topic covered under Islam.

    Islam is a way of life. A complete! way of life. There's no way ALLAH ALMIGHTY 'forgot' to cover politics in this way of life.

    There is no separation between Islam and politics, finance, social life, judicial matters, matters of education, intellectual matters, land reforms, etc etc.

    There's so much material available on the web, even in the shape of videos, where Ulamaa have factually proven, how secularism is propaganda, nonsense, injustice.

    Islam guides us in ALL! spheres of life.

    As far as 'politics' itself is concerned. Yes, I agree, it does not have to be present 'everywhere'.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 22:21 #
  33. achtung
    Member

    haris bhai

    (1) the standards ALLAH ALMIGHTY has set for Muslims ?
    (2) Islam ?
    (3) what Islam says about Muslims ?
    (4) what Islam teaches us Muslims ?
    (5) the way of life Islam proposes ?
    (6) the standards of Islam, of Muslims ?
    --------------------------------------------

    this all is possible in a secular state. if not plz tell what not possible in secular state.

    after all that bangla desh remain as muslim country.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 22:37 #
  34. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @achtung: How do you substantiate your claim(s) ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 23:10 #
  35. fayyaz214
    Member

    what is the definition of Secularism and an Islamic Party. Let me propose one. Securarlism says that we want to do a, b, c, and d because we think it will benefit because of the following reason. Where as Islamic Parties say that we want to do a, b, c and d, because we think that is what Allah wants us to do.

    Do people agree with this defination? I think having clarity on the defination will help us crystalize the discussion.

    With-in the context of above defination, Islamic Parties could work if we can guarantee the Taqwa of their leadership. As it is taqwa that leads to understanding of what Allah (SWT) wants and not the knowledge alone. Can we guarantee Taqwa of Islamic Parties leadership or is it something that only Allah (SWT) knows.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Jul 2010 23:38 #
  36. raheb
    Member

    Haris! you must have difficulty to understand what I wrote!!
    You cannot deny that Mullah's of India oppose Quaid and wanted India intact- means they oppose Pakistan, by that those 'religious parties of india chose secularism, because Ghandhi, Nehru and others claim that India would be secular, BUT it was Quaid who wanted Islamic Pakistan, and just that's why Pakistan came on World map.

    It is NOT matter of 'either' 'or', as things should be clear that Pakistan should be a Islamic State, and I wrote that it's mine and everyone's identity.

    Fayyaz define Islamic parties ( Term should be Islamic Party) which we have in may be in hundreds (because, every part has its own 'Islam') Islamic parties say we want to do a, b, c and d (according to fayyaz) because we think that is what Allah wants us to do". Good upto that, but if it should stay and stick with it. Problem is these paries DO NOT stay with Constitution (The Quran)and add a lot which Allah has NOT said that Allah wants. Then here come extremism when these different parties say that according to them Allah want this and that, but other say NO, in fact Allah wants this and that........?????
    Haris WHY should I don't mention these groupings and sects here? World itself will turn towards Islam if such fanatics just keep their mouths SHUT and give NO harm to Islam.

    raheb

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 0:10 #
  37. @HK: we seem to be going in circles. thankfully the circles are getting tighter and the tirades are getting shorter to everyone's relief.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 3:09 #
  38. shafiq12
    member

    Politics with out Islam can't survive Longer?

    The true is that Bangladeshi are traitor of Islam, 1971 war they fraud with the state of Pakistan?

    The Best example for a state in which politics without religion is Turkey

    Let see what is happening in Turkey

    Women are still not allowed to wear the hijab in Government buildings and schools a[s it is seen to be a sign of fundamentalism. Group of Turks shouted Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim loudly before they all drink alcohol which is very much the result of Kemalism (a state without Islam).

    May God bless those who follow His path.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 6:50 #
  39. rashidsaleem
    Member

    We need to learn from this. Involvement of religion into politics is suicidal. Pakistan needs to draw a line between politics and religion just like other countries are doing.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 8:38 #
  40. shafiq12
    member

    Rashidsaleem

    Pakistan needs to draw a line between politics and religion just like other countries are doing.

    Please tell if u don't mind

    Are u Muslim?

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 8:58 #
  41. Can we have a local branch of Awami League working in our country? Or is ther a party in Pakistan like Awami League?This is a great step from Bangladesh Govt to ban sectarian based religious manipulators.

    We need strong leadership to take such an action which we do not have at the moment. Religious thugs have become very powerful through their Right wing media and defective madarsa system. Chances are slim it will happen in Pakistan but we can hope for the best.

    May God send us a leader who could get rid of religious thugs from our country

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 9:31 #
  42. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I have much to say in order to answer you people. I wish there were more people around with the knowledge that I have, to answer you people.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    @Ghost of TK: None of you have been able to substantiate your 'claims', give facts or evidence against your 'idle statements'.

    Have patience. I shall answer as many of you as I can.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 10:42 #
  43. ali-pk
    Member

    @sweettruth
    instead of bringing back awami league, Why don't you fly to bangladesh?

    here we are again with our tiny lil secular minority. All they can do is to jump up and down with decisions made 1000's of km away from Pakistan and have started day dreaming.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 11:46 #
  44. gv
    Member

    ali-pk

    i think you are wrong about the secular minority...

    Yes everyone (the majority) wishes to live within the fold of islam...

    an islami nizam means a political system compatible with islamic values of justice, fairplay and social welfare that does not necessarily translate into a theocracy run by ulema or an amir ul momineen or whatever else it is that you consider to be an islami nizam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 11:58 #
  45. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @gv: How do you substantiate that claim ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 12:00 #
  46. gv
    Member

    because haris my dear boy - as we have discussed on countless occasions there is no precedent for a theocracy in islam :)

    Political islam is a 20th century concept concieved by erstwhile gentlemen such as our good old friends Syed Qutb and Maududi sahib....

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 12:02 #
  47. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @fayyaz214: Most of the 'good' in secularism, or those who subscribe to secularism comes from guidance, ways, standards, teachings, rules, laws of Islam, from looking at how Muslims conducted themselves.

    ALL of this;

    (1) abiding to no laws
    (2) abiding to no code of conduct
    (3) taking decisions to instigate wars
    (4) taking actions to instigate wars
    (5) to topple regimes
    (6) to wreak havoc within societies
    (7) to spreading, promoting injustice
    (8) to live outside one's means
    (9) living luxurious life at the expense of other human beings
    (10) etc etc, the list goes on and on, and on

    all this comes from secularism, those who promote secularism i.e., Zionists/Unjust Jews, Anglo-Americans.

    Secularism is a sham. There is no 'self thinking', 'self standards' in secularism, in the people who subscribe to secularism. Most of the standards those who subscribe to secularism have, they haven't 'thought up' those standards themselves. They'v 'stolen' it from Islam.

    In essence they are 'trying' to 'emulate' Islam while 'not accepting' Islam. This hypocr|sy will be their undoing.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 12:04 #
  48. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @gv: (1) Do you believe the concept of 'politics' is not present in Islam ? That Islam doesn't cover 'politics' ?

    How do you substantiate that claim ?

    I have a plethora of examples from Islam, from our history that tells me a very different story.

    (2) What is 'theocracy' ? Define 'theocracy'.
    (3) Do we not have 'theocracy' all over the west ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 12:06 #
  49. hkbajwa
    Member

    Sheesh

    HK you really need to drop the whole list-making style of writing you have developed. Putting non-arguments and personal attacks in bullet point form does not make them any more valid or acceptable. In fact it only makes you come across as a spectacularly well-organized idiot.

    I think this is a great move and i hope eventually we can have something of the same in pakistan. I believe the religious right wing should have its say in influencing the country. however they should do so, not by creating little religious enclaves that bully the population into submission, but rather by proving themselves to be effective and respected leaders on neutral ground.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 12:14 #
  50. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @hkbajwa: (1) Religious enclaves ? What are religious enclaves ?

    (2) Do you people believe in 'neutral grounds' ? I don't see any such indication. You people abide by no laws, no code of conduct. Since when did you get the credibility to talk of 'neutral grounds' ?

    We'v always! beaten you when we had a competition on 'neutral grounds'. History is full of it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 30 Jul 2010 12:19 #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.