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Basic Legal Questions from Legal & Islamic Point of View

(28 posts)
  1. RajputPuttar
    Member

    I m neither a legal expert nor any one of u guys will tolerate me as islamic religious expert :) But i m just putting it to house to get feedback of honourable members.

    1-
    "Innocent until proven guilty" or
    "Not Guilty until proven to be guilty"

    In my oponion , its a globally accepted rule from worldly point of view.

    From Islamic Point of view.

    I think its the same although i m not sure.

    2-
    "Burden of proof is on authority / person making allegation , not on the alleged "

    From worldly point of view , its globally accepted rule

    From Islamic point of view :

    I think its the same . the example i can quickly reminded of is the way Quran has prescribed the way of "Sahhadaat" in case of adultery. The accussor has to produce 4 witnesses no the accused to clear his / her position.

    And in my oponion , this point applies to first question i raised.

    3-
    "Is it prerogative of accused to have judges of his choice"

    In worldly law , its not right of accused but he can object any judge on the bench but generally its left to conscious of judge and judges don't listen cases where they have direct/indirect interest, relationship with parties or distrust shown by any party.

    A famous exception i can quote is of Justice Molvi Mustaq who headed the bench in ZAB case despite ZAB's objections and for this reason , the legal fertnity didn't like molvi mushtaq's attitude.

    On islamic side , i m not sure.

    4-
    "Is it prerogative of accused to have judicial system of his choice"

    In worldly system , its not permitted. The law of land & judicial system in place is the only outlet available. Like , in US or any other country , a French can't call for trial under French law or a muslim can't call for "Shariah Law" .

    In Islam , i am not sure but have couple of things to code.

    Prophet PBUH , after conquering "Bano Qaainaqah -- jews near medina who conspired during days of Ghazwa Khanadaq" , asked them what he should do them. They asked for matter be decided on the basis of "Shariah Moosvi" and on their request prophet PBUH appointed one of Ansari Sahbi (I m forgetting his name) as the judge.

    In history of islamic countries / governments , i haven't come across where citizen of say Egypt in Indonesia can call for egyption law to be applied.

    I will appreciate , guidence from all . Thx.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 1:38 #
  2. just out of curiosity.... what is the aim of this discussion? Are u in trouble?

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 1:45 #
  3. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Seeking understanding of affairs.

    Badkhahoon kaay moonh mein khaak :) Alhammadullh , i m fine .

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 1:51 #
  4. Accha howa batta deeya kay puttar "fine" hain!

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 2:03 #
  5. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Khan jee

    putar tu khariat haai, but eik 'suo-putri' is in trouble. Hope u know her, at least by name

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 2:25 #
  6. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Kooi lift hi nahi.

    Salam bahi bhi chuup haiin

    aur tu aur lal bichoo nay bi dank nahi Mara:)

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 6:27 #
  7. sparkie
    Member

    Guys you have to be very carefull when talking or listening "Rajput Puttar's" crap ..coz what i feel about him is that after posting 4 or 5 good posts on different topics he always post some "Chussi stuff"....

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 6:34 #
  8. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Awais bahi water cooler meeera howa

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 7:03 #
  9. toamin
    member

    Here is my take for the sake of furthering the discussion:

    #1- an accused is neither guilty nor innocent, i mean an accused is neither punished until proven nor let go free because he is innocent. he is an accused and has to face the trial, a kind of intermediary situation?

    #2- some cases are based on accusation where accused has to justify, some cases are disputes where both parties need to prove their stance for judge to make a decision

    #3- judges of his choice? not sure.

    #4- judicial system of choice is permitted in case of personal family laws. i think jews or christian family laws would be used to judged matters such as marriage or second marriage or inheritance etc.. i think this comes under freedom to practice religion as personal capacity, but if the interaction is with society or public then public law will apply such as drinking in public is not allowed but in private they may drink?

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 7:17 #
  10. RajputPuttar
    Member

    SalAm

    1- if u accuse me of something , by your oponion, my position becomes jeoparadized ? Famous examples.

    A) ch. Zahoor elahi was nominated in a case of 'maajhh choori' . Hope u remeber that ? Abb yeh tu bara panga ho jaaey ga. Heing lagi naa pathkari, aur rang bhi chokaaa

    2- let's leave Arbitartion aside for the time being and focus on civil & criminal cases

    4- personal family law is available only if it's recognized by the law of land itself. Like in Australia I can't ask for Muslim personal law As it's not acknowledged by current legal structure

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 7:40 #
  11. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    No! one can 'choose' judges for their hearing. That's absurd!, to say the least.

    They can object to any judge, if they can prove there is sufficient reason to believe, the judge in question is envolved somehow with one of the parties going through the case.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 7:43 #
  12. toamin
    member

    #1- right, anyone can build a case against anyone else, it could be a false case that is why their is counter case known as 'defamation' to discourage such practice-

    #2- britain has muslim personal family law, i guess you may want to move there :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 7:55 #
  13. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Ya defamation is there but again for the length of case, jeoparadizing one's position seems bit un fair? Doesn't

    thx for telling about uk but that strengthens my point that it's available there since judicial system recognizesit

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 8:07 #
  14. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Ya defamation is there but again for the length of case, jeoparadizing one's position seems bit un fair? Doesn't

    thx for telling about uk but that strengthens my point that it's available there since judicial system recognizesit

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Feb 2010 8:09 #
  15. RajputPuttar
    Member

    hariskhan

    Its your statement ???? 500kv kaa shock.

    Bahiya,

    Aaap tu Afia siddique kaa liye judge tu kiya legal system uss ki choice kaa chahtey haain ?

    bahiyoo, pakrana mujhey.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Feb 2010 9:45 #
  16. RajputPuttar
    Member

    yaar,

    mirza bahi say request kaar kaaey yeh thread main page par laaya hoon , leikn kooi tawajh hi nahi daaey raha.

    Lagta haai , heading ghalat lag ggai (:

    LB aap hi kutch bolo.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Feb 2010 11:17 #
  17. RajputPuttar
    Member

    FJ bahi aap bhi chup hooo.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Feb 2010 13:37 #
  18. @RP

    I need to take a deeper look at your questions. Its very difficult to answer them while sitting in the office. Inshallah will come back although I am not a islamic scholar but will give you my understanding of the little knowledge I have.

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Feb 2010 13:48 #
  19. RajputPuttar
    Member

    thx sir jee. Bari mushkil saay zinda rakhaa haai iss thread koo. Although its mein bohut potential haai. u know :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Feb 2010 13:50 #
  20. RajputPuttar
    Member

    was meant for some serious discussion but probably turned to be too serious ):

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 7:58 #
  21. toamin
    member

    this is a good thread but as we can see people like me are more interested in bashing political leaders :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 8:00 #
  22. RajputPuttar
    Member

    salam bahi,

    aap ko bhi pata haai kiss ka intizar haai. Pheli kaay chand kii tarah "mukhara" deikha kaar chup gaaey haain. mein bechara abhi tak 500KV shock say nahi uttah.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 8:02 #
  23. toamin
    member

    kia karon bhai idher khail tamashay may maza aa raha thaa to time pass karnay lagg gaya... koyee PTI wala na nazar aya to khudi PTI ka numaindah ban gaya... hahaahah

    mahfil garam rakhnay ka hay ikk bahana :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 8:05 #
  24. RajputPuttar
    Member

    sir , aap naay tu apni qeemiti raaey dii thi , kutch aur mehrbaaon kaa zikar khaair tha :) Isstara bhi samjah karain :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 8:07 #
  25. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @RajputPuttar: Don't make 'justice' or 'justice system' a joke, in your word games.

    Have some respect for;

    (1) rule of law
    (2) the betterment of the masses
    (3) the betterment of the innocent

    rather than propagating that which is unjust, to further your own ego satisfaction.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 10:07 #
  26. RajputPuttar
    Member

    bahiya

    mein naay kiya kaha haai. Apna oponion diya haai , u have a difference , tu apna oponion deijye.

    hazrat , joo baat bhi kii laajawab kii .

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 10:11 #
  27. I am really confused brother, you want to ask something or want to inform something. You have almost answered all the points in your first post which you raised.

    1- Innocent until proven guilty, every one agrees with that and its also 100% islamic.

    2- Burden of proof is on authority / person making allegation , not on the alleged.... you answered yourself

    3-Is it prerogative of accused to have judges of his choice............ No he could not choose judges but he could show his reservations against one or two judges which could be evaluated.

    4- Is it prerogative of accused to have judicial system of his choice.... in certain matters yes which are related only with him but if some one else is involved then state law should be applied which should be same for every one.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 11:08 #
  28. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Sir,

    I didn't conclude anything , just shared my humble oponion.

    Thx for your valued input.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Feb 2010 12:55 #

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