Its a lie that BB founded Pakistan's Missile progame.
Pakistan first tested Hataf 1 & 2 in Feb , 1989 , only three months after BB's taking over on dec 2, 1988.
Can anybody believe that in mere 3 months , a program for missile technology was founded and it delievered ?
Asif
Blocked
The ones raised by Ayub Zia & Mush & their guddi-nasheens are too a part of status quo.
Its just a matter of time wen a common man would head the corridors of power & change the direction of flow of resources towards the common man.
@Asif
Mate , very nice thought. But what it has to do with the topic ?
There is no doubt that ZA Bhutto was the founder of pakistani Atomic Programme. But BB the founder of Missile programme? It's like saying if Altaf was the founder of pakistan.
BB has nothing to do with the missile programme but I strongly suspect that if her other half stayed in power, we will see the cap on our atomic capibilities soon if not a complete roll back.
ZA Bhutto was not the founder of Pakistan's atomic program.
The nuclear program was started under Field Marshall Ayub's govt.
Later on, India went nuclear itself, this is when ZA Bhutto was in power, so he dramatically increased the size and the scope of the program.
But its a misconception that the nuclear program started under Bhutto; it was only made much bigger as India went nuclear.
who cares
@secular__pakistan,
I agree ZAB wasn't founder of atomic programe but he made the mistake of jumping into nuclear arsnel race whcih gave the "BRAVE ARMY" new life line and that ultimately led to his death.
In Ayub area , nuclear program was under PAEC and a 5 megawatt plant was established in neelore for research purposes.
The Islamic Republic of Pakistan began focusing on nuclear development in January 1972 under the leadership of Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto (father of Benazir Bhutto). Pakistan's nuclear weapons development program was in response to neighboring India's development of nuclear weapons. Bhutto called a meeting of senior scientists and engineers on January 20, 1972, in Multan. It was here that Bhutto rallied Pakistan's scientists to build the atomic bomb for national survival. At the Multan meeting, Bhutto also appointed a Pakistani nuclear engineer, Munir Ahmad Khan, as chairman of Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC), who till then had been working as Director of Nuclear Power and Reactor Division at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), in Vienna, Austria. This marked the beginning of Pakistan's pursuit of nuclear capability. Following India's surprise nuclear test, codenamed Smiling Buddha in 1974, the first confirmed nuclear test by a nation outside the permanent five members of the United Nations Security Council, the goal to develop nuclear weapons received considerable impetus.
Consequently, Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, a metallurgical engineer, working at the Dutch research firm URENCO, who used blueprints he allegedly stole from his employer for designing the ultracentrifuges at Kahuta (near Islamabad) also joined Pakistan's nuclear weapons-grade Uranium enrichment program. The uranium enrichment program had been launched in 1974 by PAEC chairman Munir Ahmad Khan as Project-706. AQ Khan joined the project in the spring of 1976 and was made Project-Director in July 1976 after taking over from Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood. In 1983, Khan was convicted of the theft of the blueprints, however, the conviction was overturned on a legal technicality.[1]. A few weeks after India's second nuclear test (Operation Shakti) on 28 May 1998, Pakistan detonated five nuclear devices in the Chagai Hills in the Chaghai district, Balochistan. This operation was named Chagai-I by Pakistan. Pakistan's fissile material production takes place at Kahuta and Khushab/Jauharabad, where weapons-grade plutonium is made, allegedly with using Chinese-supplied technology.[2]
Pakistan's Nuclear Weapons Program was established in 1974 when the Directorate of Technical Development (DTD) was set up in PAEC by chairman Munir Ahmad Khan, who was credited as the true "father" of Pakistan's atomic bomb by a recent IISS, London's Dossier on Pakistan's nuclear program. DTD was assigned the task of developing the implosion design, trigger mechanism, physics calculations, high-speed electronics, high-precision chemical and mechanical components, high explosive lenses for Pakistan's nuclear weapons. DTD comprised the Diagnostics Group, the Fast Neutron Physics Group, Wah Group and the Theoretical Physics Group. The DTD had come up with its first implosion design of a nuclear weapon by 1978 which was then improved and later tested on March 11, 1983 when PAEC carried out Pakistan's first successful cold test of a nuclear device. Between 1983 and 1990, PAEC carried out 24 more cold tests of various nuclear weapon designs. DTD had also developed a miniaturized weapon design by 1987 that could be delivered by all Pakistan Air Force Aircraft. It was the same DTD that carried out the Chaghi tests of May 28, 1998 and the Kharan test of May 30, 1998
Bhutto was the founder of Pakistan's nuclear programme. Its militarisation was initiated in January 1972 and, in its initial years, was implemented by General Tikka Khan. The Karachi Nuclear Power Plant was inaugurated by Bhutto during his role as President of Pakistan at the end of 1972. Long before, as Minister for Fuel, Power and National Resources, he has played a key role in setting up of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission. The Kahuta facility was also established by the Bhutto Administration.
In his book If I am Assassinated, written from his prison cell, Bhutto revealed how Henry Kissinger had said to him in 1976: "we can destabilize your government and make a horrible example out of you".[20] Kissinger had warned Bhutto that if Pakistan continued with its nuclear programe the Prime Minister would have to pay a heavy price
Bhutto established an atomic power development programme and inaugurated the first Pakistani atomic reactor, built in collaboration with Canada in Karachi on November 28. In January 1973
PLEASE DON'T TRY TO DISTORT THE HISTORY JUST CUZ U MAY NOT LIKE BHUTTO OR PPP!
Whats your source?
I heard this info. (Ayub started the nuclear program) from Dr. Samar Mubarakmand. Do you know who Dr. Samar Mubarakmand is? Where do you get yours from? Jiyalas? Or Hamid Mir?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
You are also one of these "Stupids" who after can't wait for other to reply but just have their own assumptions. Hamid Mir must be ur source of information but not mine..
Can u give us ur source as well... Not just word of mouth and certainly not ur crew word of mouth
The entire documentary, historical and circumstantial proofs confirm the reality that Z.A. Bhutoo was the first leader who initiated a full fledged and serious consideration to make Pakistan Nuclear.
The Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission was established in 1955-56 but was limited to academic activities.
It looks very funny to make historical reality, presented by Khan Sahib, a debatable Issue.
No doubt that a full fledged attempt at developing a nuclear weapons program was started under ZA Bhutto. But that was only because India went nuclear in the 70s, testing their first nuclear weapon in 1974. Thats what pushed Pakistan to pursue a full fledged nuclear weapons program.
But, the beginnings, which were much more humble, the foundation if you can call it, was laid under Ayub's rule.
i am not sure about Bhtto but for sure BB was not the founder of missile programme.
they take the advantage of the timings ..
it was all decided and designed years ago..
and thier delivery time was co incidentaly when BB took the power as a first woman PM.
so they PPP ppl associate the whole programme with BB.
thats not the case.
if that is the case than we shud consider Nawaz Sharif as a nuclear progrmme iniatier .
as nuclear blasts desicions was taken in his time period.
but that is not the case.
Nawaz is certainly not the founder of any pakistani nuclear programme. And in this "Fake form of Musshy Democracy" PM are just puppets with real powers with the President or Army.
is this some issue to debate?
You want to prove BB or PPP a group of liars, is this the only thing left which could prove them a bunch of liars
not we but PPP itself has proved its a lier by backing out thier own words .
so we need not to waste our energies to prove an already proven thing.
aristotle
Member
askhan75
mujhe tu ye dar hey k thoray din baad ye bhi kaha jane lage ga k pakistan BB ya zulfiqar ali bhutto ne banaya tha , media ki ger zimedari ki waja se quaid e azam ziada mashoor hogay..........
BB tu khud AQ ko america k hawale karne par tulay hoe thee ,,, log ye kueo bhoool jate hen?
aristotle..
mujhe tu ye dar hey k thoray din baad ye bhi kaha jane lage ga k pakistan BB ya zulfiqar ali bhutto ne banaya tha , media ki ger zimedari ki waja se quaid e azam ziada mashoor hogay..........
BB tu khud AQ ko america k hawale karne par tulay hoe thee ,,, log ye kueo bhoool jate hen?
So what is you POINT? Does that mean because BB wanted to handover AQ Khan (if its true) hence ZA Bhutto cant be the founder of Pakistan's nuclear weapons development program ? lol You guys make me laugh... Hassad aur dushmanee may tum log history change karnay kee naakam koshish naa karoo yaar...
aristotle
Member
khan sahib
mere khene ka matlab ye tha k jis raftar se tamam karnamey BB k nam kiye jarahey hen tu kahi josh me aakar koi jiala pakistan kay oayam ka sehra bhi un kay sar na bandh dey.. its just lighter side note...
jahan tak AQ ki baat hay ye interview tu sab hee dekh aur sun chukay hey is ley kisi kay controdict karne se koi farq nahi parta.. it shows BB' s intention abt national issues...
i believe that Mr Bhutto was genious .. but unfortunately he had used by establishment and forces...
history hum jaise log nahi bigartey balke Mohabat k marey log bigarne ki koshish karte hen keo k mohabat andhi hoti hey....
no wonder the loyalists of PPP wud come up with the claim that BB was the founder of Pakistan.
aristotle
Member
beenai
yes, I has earlier mentioned that BB would be declared as founder of Pakistan… coin of Rs 10 with the picture of BB (released on BB’s death anniversary) is a step in this direction…….but Loyalists of PPP who have blind love… listen… there is no room for loyal in ppp now. Unfortunately…..
a citizen has challenged 10 Rs coin with BB picture to cancel it becoz this honour is specific for founder of Pakistan. Furthermore, thru this practice a way will open for all parties to print their leaders’ pix on currency note/coins in their tenure. This practice must be stopped. Personally I strongly agree and favour this comment… we all should reject this coin and record our displeasure over this step. we don’t want to give that place to anyone which is specific for father of the nation.
Had there were 100 lovers of the Father of the Nation like aristotle, Pakistan would have been a wonderful State.
@Aristotle,
i strongle agree with u ...
no country in this world has multiple persons on thier currencies.
father of the nation is the only undisputed leader so far ...who has been on currency and he shud be...
we all shud go to banks and change our coins if we got any with other than Quiad pic.
we all shud refuse to take coins in trasactions ...which has other than Quiad pic.
its love and more than that a matter of principle.
aristotle
Member
javedsheikh sahib
there r a lot true lovers of father of the nation.... who r not blind in love of any political party.they can see realties and think over it.
Fahim23
Member
@askhan
Pakistan's missile program was started on experimental basis in early 1980's.
The short range Hatf-1 and Hatf-2, which are apparently of Pakistani design and construction, were developed by the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO). But these missiles seem to have proven a disappointment, due probably in no small measure to their modest range, and do not appear to have entered operational service.
The Shaheen series of solid-propellant missiles are imports from China by the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC), which is also responsible for Pakistan's plutonium bomb program. The Chinese M-11 missile was obtained from China in the early 1990s, and tested with considerable publicity in mid-1999. The longer range Shaheen-I and Shaheen-II appear to correspond to the Chinese M-9 and DF-15, respectively, though there is presently no solid evidence that Pakistan has obtained either missile.
More recently, the A.Q. Khan Research Laboratories, which is also responsible for Pakistan's uranium bomb program, has imported and tested the North Korean Nodong missile under the name Ghauri. Imports of the longer range Taepodong missiles may also be under consideration.
Please also note that it was Mohtarma who went to Korea and acquired F-16s from USA for missile delivery system. That's why she is acknowledged as the founder of Pakistan's missile program.
Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/missile/index.html
Fahim23
Member
@aristotle, Beenai
Don't worry in the history of annals only truth remains. Even if some PPP loyalists come up with such absurd claims as making BB or PPP founder of Pakistan, they won't make any difference. The time will silence such voices. Similarly if some anti-PPP loyalists driven by the hatered and jealousy against PPP tried to discredit her of anything that she has contributed for our country will be disappointed. And the time will silence them too.
Being PPP supported, I am proud of the fact that this party has remarkable and unprecedented and mostly undisputed contributions for our country. For example,
1- Constitution
2- Nuclear Program
3- Independent foreigh policy
A- Pak-China relations
B- Relations with muslim world (great summit of OIC)
C- Simla agreement
D- Territory issues settlement with China and Iran.
4- Missile Program
5- SANDAK and HUBCO project
6- Largest industrial plant of Pakistan (i.e., Steel mill)
7- Port Qasim
8- Land and labour reforms
and many more.
Despite my dissatisfaction with the PPP led government's so far performance, I am hopeful that if allowed to complete its tenure, the government will InshALLAH be able to:
1- Temper down/Eliminate Balochistan insurgency
2- End energy crisis
3- Improve law & order situation
4- Provide provincial autonomy
5- Stabilize and economy and bring it to take off position.
I would appreciate if those who criticise/abuse or express thr doubts on PPP and its leadership can educate the members of this forum by providing similar achievements by any other party/ruler of Pakistan.
Fahim 23
The link provided in your postings doesn't say anything about benair acquiring the F16 for Pakistan.
http://pakistantimes.net/2005/03/29/top.htm
http://news.indiainfo.com/2005/10/02/0210us-pak.html
http://www.indusbusinessjournal.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=E990A8AF0A07484782B93ADDC8FD9249&AudID=F1B696626A8943B7B50052A323677014
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/Nuclear&Missiles/GhauriIRBM_info.html
Fahim23
Member
@Khan_sb
Yes I added korea and F16s on my personal knowledge. The link only details about the salient features of Pakistan's missile technology.
It is important to remind everyone that although Pakistan government paid the money of 60 F16s to USA, but due to the ban of america (probably by presely amendment), the USA halted the delivery and we received some F16s in 2004 and settled the rest of money with wheat!
@fahim23
"Yes I added korea and F16s on my personal knowledge"
Could you please quote the source of your personal knowledge about the F16's! Is it some "Classified" information which only limited people like yourself know? If its an official secret then I won't ask but if not, I would really like to have some reference/source of information please...
Fahim23
Member
@Khan_sb
It is not any classified secret! I reckon majority of pakistanis who follow politics know about this.
Please read the following excerpt.
Peace Gate IV
In September of 1989, plans were announced by Pakistan to acquire 60 more F-16A/B's. A contract was signed in the same year under the Peace Gate IV Foreign Military Sales Programs, for the delivery of 60 F-16s for US $1.4 billion or approximately US $23 million a piece. By March of 1994, 11 of these planes had been built and were directly flown into the Sonoran desert where they joined the 11 Peace Gate III aircraft in storage. A further six aircraft were stored by the end of 1994, so that a total of 17 aircraft (7 F-16A's and 10 F-16B's) of the Peace Gate IV order are now stored. A stop-work order affected the remaining 43 planes of the Peace Gate IV contract.
The Brown amendment later eased the restrictions on weapon exports to Pakistan, but specifically excluded the F-16s from this release. Pakistan had already paid $685 million on the contract for the first 28 F-16s (11 Peace Gate III and 17 Peace Gate IV), and insisted on either having the planes it ordered delivered or getting its money back.
@Khan_Sahib,
Pakistna first acquired f-16's in early 80's and then there was another agrrement for 60 f-16's for which payment was made but deliever didn't occur.
@Fahim,
I would strongly disagree to a few points in your long list of PPP govt achievments.
A- Pak-China relations
It started with Bandoing Conference in 1957 and solidified during Ayub era. Pakistan settled its border disputes with China in 1962 that was far before PPPs first governement.
8- Land and labour reforms
PPPP did land reforms then how the bhutto's have thousands of acres ?
Constitution
Bhutto's suspsended the fundamental rights and imposed emergency within hours of promugulation of 1973 constituion . So, what credit u give to them ?
Also remember the 7 amendments which he did at will which included amendments to skew judiciary and favour prefereed persons. Some of these amendments were done within hours by throwing opposition out of assembly.
Democarcy
U didn't mention it but often PPPP loyalist claim Bhutto to be as first elected PM. For your information, Bhutto didn't win the elections. He even didn't win 1/3 seats (81 out of 300) but got into power by consipiring with ARMY. And what he did with elected govt.of NWFP and balochistan , led to his hanging.
Believe it or not.
Bottom line is that Z.A. Bhutoo was one of the greatest leaders, the soil of Pakistan ever produced.
One can detect a number of mistakes committed by every leader, starting from the Qauid-I-Azam, but the greatness of those leaders remains unquestionable.
The status of the Qauid-I-Azam could be made cloudy by such queries:
1. Why the Muslim League didn't prepare a draft Constitution for Pakistan just after the Lahore Resolution in 1940?
2. Why the Qauid-i-Azam accepted the position of Governor General under the Government of India Act 1935?
3. Why the issue of transfer of population could not be solved amicably, avoiding the bloodshed in 1947?
In spite of all such allegations, he was a great and sincere leader of his time.
Z.A Bhutoo was also a great and sincere leader of his time.
No research work is needed to justify his greatness, but the answer to these questions could unfold his status as a leader.
Why he was killed?
Who killed him?
Fahim23
Member
@askhan
"Pak-China relations"
Diplomatic relations between Pakistan and China were established on 21 May, 1951. You have rightly pointed out the Pak-china relations were starting to strengthen during Ayub time. But you are probably forgetting who was the Foreign minister during that time? It was Mr. ZAB! There are some political commentators who argue that Ayub was highly inclined towards USA (he allied Pakistan with USA), but it was Mr. Bhutto who convinced Ayub to maintain a balanced stategy by establishing ties with thn USSR and China.
Please check these images where you will find Mr. ZAB meeting with chinese authorities in 1962/63.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/14082-pak-china-relations-pictures.html
But the breakthrough in Pak-China came in early 70's when Pakistan led by ZAB played a crucial rule in ending the chinese isolation on world stage. Let me quote the excerpt from Pakistan's government website:
"Pakistan has always supported China on all issues of importance to the latter, especially those related to the question of China's sovereignty e.g. Hong Kong, Taiwan and Tibet and other sensitive issues such as human rights. The Chinese leadership has always appreciated Pakistan's steadfast support on issues of their concern. They are also generous in acknowledging the significant role of Pakistan in the early 70s, which enabled China to break its isolation from the West and the US."
Source: http://www.pakpost.gov.pk/philately/stamps2001/anniversary_of_pak_china_friendship.html
As foreign minister, Bhutto significantly transformed Pakistan's hitherto pro-Western foreign policy. While maintaining a prominent role for Pakistan within the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization and the Central Treaty Organization, Bhutto began asserting a foreign policy course for Pakistan that was independent of U.S. influence. Bhutto criticised the U.S. for providing military aid to India during and after the Sino-Indian War of 1962, which was seen as an abrogation of Pakistan's alliance with the U.S. Bhutto worked to establish stronger relations with the People's Republic of China.[11] Bhutto visited Beijing and helped Ayub negotiate trade and military agreements with the Chinese regime, which agreed to help Pakistan in a large number of military and industrial projects. Bhutto also signed the Sino-Pakistan Boundary Agreement on March 2, 1963 that transferred 750 square kilometres of territory from Pakistan-administered Kashmir to Chinese control. Bhutto asserted his belief in non-alignment, making Pakistan an influential member in non-aligned organisations. Believing in pan-Islamic unity, Bhutto developed closer relations with nations such as Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulfikar_Ali_Bhutto#Foreign_Minister
Fahim23
Member
@askhan
Are you denying there were any landreforms during first term of PPP, or you are just pointing out the incompleteness of Bhutto's promise?
The Land Reforms of 1972 have restricted the individual holdings to 150 acres of irrigated and 300 acres of un-irrigated land. The excessive land holdings were taken over by the without paying compensation. Due to these measures agricultural land resumed thus far is over 800,000 acres.
1988 - 1989
Distributed 35000 acres of land among the landless peasants. Each farmer was given 12.5 acres of land. The landlords challenged the land reforms in Supreme Court and because of court intervention the hand reforms were temporarily halted.
Most of these landreforms in first term of PPP was implemented in Punjab and in second term most of them were done in 2nd term of PPP. But it is very unfortunate, the landreforms were not complete.
There are many errors/mistakes committed by ZAB. BB or PPP. For example the nationalization policy which didn't prove to be fruitful. Similarly our constitution is not perfect, but it is fairly a due credit of ZAB for coming up with a concensus document in just within two years. Even today all political parties find that constition as the basis of country!
If you don't consider ZAB first elected PM, its your choice. Most of people in this country and in the world consider him first elected PM.
Fahim23
Member
There is an interesting news on bbc relevant to this topic:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2009/01/090103_nuclear_expess_fz.shtml
I m posting it wondering may b u too r intrested to read.
Heather_Ali
Member
fahim23,
Can you by any chance post a link in english. Sorry, I can't read urdu that well.
Cheers
Heather
Heather_Ali
Member
@JS.
One more thing which I always wondered and did thought was a silly mistake (Which I wouldn't expect from leaders in that era including MA Jinnah) and that was creation of Pakistan in two seperate geographical location! I still can' understand that how would you expect to defend two different locations or help them out in the time of their need like natural disaster management.
@Fahim,
Bhutto was definatley FM in 1961-2 when boundary agreement was signed with China but he was a FM of president Ayub. And the policy was inititated much before his arrival at Foriegn Office and continrued even after his departure from FO.
As far china's isolation is concerned ,it took place during Yahya Khan's era in 70-71 when Dr.Kessenger visited Beijing via Islamabad. That was almost 5 years after ZAB left FO and one year before his becoming president.
My dear colleuage, what is Land Reofrms ? A ceiling is placed on the holding of Lands . Right. My qeustion was pretty simple. IF PPP did land reforms twice as u and PPP claims (In 72 and 77) then how Bhutto family is still holder of thousands of acres ?
Bhutto was a great leader with certain pros and cons without any doubt. But , while discussing his character we shouldn't distort history. Bhutto was a human being and defiantely lacked in some areas as well. He did some great jobs as well. Lets accept both sides.
Just to add a bit to my last msg about Bhutto's contribution towards pak-sino relationships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Minister_of_Pakistan
Bhutto assumed the office of FM on January 24, 1963 and in March 1963, the famous agreement between Pakistan and China to settle boundary disputes was signed.
VERY QUICK PROGRESS.
And plz don't come up with a hypothesis that it was an academic (experimental) ground , like the hypotehsis about missile program u have earlier presented.
Don't mean to hurt , just want to say that lets be honest with history atleast.
What we are trying to prove which cannot be accepted even if it is proved.
Most of our scholars suffer from a combination of prejudice, hatred, biased and stubborn attitude not to accept a reality.
The following book could help to resolve the proposition under discussion:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Nuclear-Express/Thomas-C-Reed/e/9780760335024
(The author, Mr. Thomas Reed is an Ex-Secretary to American Air Force)
He has disclosed that Pakistan's first Nuclear Bomb was ready to explode in 1990, where BB was the Prime Minister. The book is easily available at the leading libraries in Pakistan.
Fahim23
Member
@askhan
I have no problem accepting the errors/mistakes committed by ZAB, BB, AZ or any PPP leader. I completely undetstands every world leader makes mistakes and no one is perfect. In fact in the on going discussions at this forum I have been pointing out the mistakes (in my opinion) made by ZAB and BB (for eg., Nationalization policy, little too much apeasement of religious parties by ZAB and establishment by BB, NRO, Balochistan operation etc). My purpose is just to express my views/opinions and share any knowledge/positive information that I have. I'm not here to lecture/make converts/preach or dictate anyone. In my opinion the contributions made by ZAB in architecting Pakistan's Foreigh policy (especially involving China, USSR, and muslim world) and other matters are significant and I give him credit for serving the nation. I have heard chinese leaders acknowledging the contributions made by ZAB and PPP for the relation between two countries.
I quote Chinese President Hu Jintao
"Ali Bhutto and Benazir Butto made prominent contributions to the initiation and development of the China-Pakistan relationship, which the Chinese people will never forget," he said.
Source: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-10/16/content_7110177.htm
If you don't agree and see things differently that's your choice.
How much land the Bhutto family owns? I'm not aware of that, please educate me how much land they own? But I am not understanding your question whether you are asking "Did ZAB in his first term and BB in her first term ever implemented land reforms? or your question is "Why didn't they apply land reforms to thr own family?" If you meand first thing thn the answer is Yes they implemented land reforms for the first time in Pakistan's history during 1972 and 1988. (Thn NS also continued this policy). The CM of PPP government in Sindh has announced further land reforms this time, whereby the government land will be alloted to peasant women.
@eather_Ali
Apologies, as I tried to find that article in english but couldn't. It is about one american intelligence guy who claims that Pakistan performed its first nuclear test in 1990 with the help of China.
@Fahim23
FYI , land reforms were conduncted in 72 for the first time and 77 for the second time in PPP govt. There has been no further land reforms since them .
What u r calling land reforms in 88 or by NS thats not land reforms. Thats dirtrubtion of govt on lands to masses.
NOw , if land reforms started in 72 couldn't be completed till 77 (6 years ) than how much time would be required.
Secondly , i m also expressing my oponion here but if there is obvious /gross tampering of history , i can't hold myself but pointing it.
Cheers.
I guess we were discussing the thread:
"BB--Founder of Missile Program--- A simple lie"
A lot of documentary, historical, and circumstantial evidences are enough to conclude that it was not "a simple lie."
How we shifted to land reforms what is not directly related to the topic under discussion?
Heather_Ali
Member
we tend to drift from the actual topic and start subtopics or worst personal related offences!
Fahim and askhan to be blamed to start this "land reform" debate here. Why dont you start another thread instead.
@JS
This was my first post starting the thred.
"Pakistan first tested Hataf 1 & 2 in Feb , 1989 , only three months after BB's taking over on dec 2, 1988"
Do u Still really think that BB was found of missile program and this delievered with 2 months of her taking power ?
Fahim23
Member
@Heather_alo, JS
Sorry for diverting the topic. I was just trying to reply the questions that were raised.
@askhan
An undergraduate student of 21st century knows everything about Missile technology. So it is not a big deal for me to come up with missiles at government level in two months especially when China/Korea were giving thr designs and technology. One cannot say that Pakistan never worked or thought to work on missile technology before BB resumed her government. But the serious government will and effort that was required for developing nuclear and missle capability was shown by ZAB and BB, respectively. And that's why ZAB and BB can be rightly termed as founder of Nuclear and founder of Missile program.
It is like saying "Quaid-e-Azam founder of Pakistan -- A simple lie". Because Sir syed Ahmed khan was probably the first person who initiated n worked for two nation theory!
Who is temparing/distorting the history only time will tell! I'm afraid in my knowledge it is widely acknowledged (even ppl like Mushahud hussain and Sh. Rasheed) that BB was the founder of Pakistan's Missile technology. Probably you too needed to initiate this thread as you found a need to turn this misconception (according to your understanding).
Regards,
Fahim
Pak Truth
Member
off course, she was the one who made a contract to bring Missil thechnology in Pakistan.Her father did efforts to install nuclear reactor though programme started in Ayub Khan. I think crtizising BB and father was and is the part of anti PPP propaganda. Due credit should to be given to the leaders who resisted all world pressure and completed this programme.
@Fahim23
I give up after your this statment
"So it is not a big deal for me to come up with missiles at government level in two months especially when China/Korea were giving thr designs and technology"
Munsif Sindhi
Member
@ Fahim and khan sahib,
I agree your point of views and its pity to read that if some one doesnt like any party or person due to personal biases,it means he or she is worst of all and did nothing good to nations.To a general logic,no one is perfect and one has both sides good and bad.
@Anonymous,Asif and all anti Bhutto group
I ask friends not to distort the facts of history and it is of NO use and brings no good.If you have any personal problem with PPP or you dont like them,no problem.Your comments cant change history or services ZB and BB,I am sorry,History cant be changed as per your wishes.
Heather_Ali
Member
I strongly agree with your views Mr Mir Munsif, Specially the last line!
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