PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion

Beware of the Qadiyani propaganda...and their propaganda tools...

(98 posts)
  1. stingingnettle
    Member

    Pakistani47

    Thank you for your comments;

    You responded to my question;

    "Could the Army of Abu Bakar Siddique (RUA) do something about the hungry, cold and destitute child who wants to go to school in my country."

    As I clarified to W Durrani, I was referring to the present day flag-bears of those armies, ie people like W Durrani and hence the question was directed at the quick.

    My fundamental difficulty is not with the historic fact but with the following two things;

    Why are we so concerned about defining people muslims and non muslims when Pakistanis are submerged in intractable problems of existence. It might well be true that there may have been once a time in Islamic history that you describe but I am more interested in the deprivation and starvation my country faces now. If we want to mobilise the armies of Islam, they should be mobilised to educate and train our young people so that they can earn a dignified living on their own. Worrying about what a certain minority is up to and how they are hatching a conspiracy to convert gullible and vulnerable muslims is hardly our biggest problem.

    My second point was that to promote intolerance and hatred towards any minority of Pakistan is totally unacceptable. We seem to love it and applaud it when people convert to Islam but we hyperventilate just at the thought of someone else trying to convert a muslim? Preaching and conversion is a two way street and frankly I have little or no interest in it. We cannot have double standards, it makes us the laughing stock of the world.

    Last but not the least, harking back to our glory days seems like a prelude to inaction. We suffer from self-loathing because we compare lives with the glorious past and always ending up the same wishful conclusion;

    "If only we are true muslims, we would......"

    I only wish that was the reason for all that ails my country.

    The responsibility for change is ours, we need to stop another generation of our children from becoming idle fatalists. This is the real challenge.

    Once again, I thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I only wish W Durrani had the same courage.

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 21:11 #
  2. What about those who call themselves Muslim but none of their acts reflect it? Declare them a kafir as well?

    Zardari, rehman mailk, muslim terrorists, muslim killers, muslim bandits, muslim theifs etc etc for example?

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 21:35 #
  3. stingingnettle
    Member

    LifeH2O

    It's only the fantasists amongst us who chase this mirage called the All-Action, All-pious and All-praying muslim who is about to bring about a most incredible revolution. The rational realist amongst us think we are not different from others; we are prone to the same temptations as everyone else and that we need to work very hard to make something of our lives and in the process hopefully make Pakistan a better place to live.

    It's the idle fatalists and fantasists who work themselves into a frenzy over definitions.

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 21:50 #
  4. shaagird
    Member

    tehrik-e-taliban pakistan and other barbaric illiterate organisations also unfortunately call themselves muslims!

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 21:53 #
  5. stingingnettle
    Member

    People can call themselves the Cukoo Clock Massives (CCM), I couldn't give the smelly stuff; the important thing is to get away from the nostalgia and understand that we need extricate ourselves from rituals and do something real and rational.

    Everyone from every sect, faith and CCM need to contribute to bring about change in Pakistan without getting bogged down by who is a full muslim, a half muslim or a quarter muslim or a just plain kafir.

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 22:06 #
  6. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    shaagird,

    Who is literate and how do you define it? Bandar ki aulaad secular grads? The real literate is one who is close to source of Ilm( Rememeber the attribute al Aleem). The one who has double Ph.D and doble major is not necessarily a literate.

    A literate can be a street cleaner or a millionaire. All depends upon piety and belief at the end of the day and at the end of the world..

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 22:09 #
  7. stingingnettle
    Member

    Literacy is the first step in the long journey of self-awareness and self-discovery. What you do with your literacy is a much harder proposition to tackle as compared to just becoming literate.

    I only wish I was smart enough to tell other people what to do with their literacy. Read, I guess.

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 22:19 #
  8. spruce
    Member

    Nowadays, the Qadiani movement gaining ground. In the name of Islam, its followers are making sordid attempts to destroy Muslims' faith in the belief of the Sealing of Prophethood.
    We would not have had any problem with them, if they said that they were founding a new religion or a new faith; but that is not the case with them. These people dress like Muslims, have names like Muslims, but do not believe that Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) is the last and Final Prophet, as the Quran and Hadith order us to believe. They say that in the Ummah of Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) "Zilli" (i.e. he who enjoys the favor and patronage of the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) and "Buroozi" i.e. (he who emerges after the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam as (false) prophet) Prophets can also come. They are called as” Follower-Prophet”. (Ummati-Nabi) Mirza Qadiani claimed Prophet Hood on this basis only. These people,(the Qadianis), believe in him (i.e. Mirza Qadiani) as a prophet. The Sealing of Prophethood is a basic article of faith. Anybody who sways from this even to the extent of a hair's breadth is out of the fold of Islam. Accordingly, this brief booklet is being penned in the light of the Quran, Hadith, and the explanations given by the Jurisprudents (Fuqaha), Exegetes (Mufassirin) and Experts of the Prophetic Traditions (Muhadditheen) of the Ummah.

    False claims and apostasies of Mirza Qadiani :

    Mirza Qadiani has laid many false claims in his books. Claim of Mujddadiyat (Reviver of religion), Claims of being similar to Prophet Isa (Alaihis salam), Claims of being the Messiah and finally he claimed Prophethood (May Allah save us from all that). He writes in Izalat ul Auhaam “In Baraheen e Ahmadiya, the Lord has addressed this humble servant as the Prophet and also as a follower”. (May Allah protect us). In the guise of “Divine Inspiration”, he has tried to cite the Lord Almighty Allah Subhanahu wa ta’ala as the nominator to his false claims of being similar to the Prophets (Peace be upon them) and of being equal of the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammadur rasool Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم). He writes, “And then the similarity reached such levels, that many times, the Lord addressed me as "O Ahmad" and made me an “Apparent Equal” to the Leader of all Prophets and the saints Hadhrat Muhammad (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم).-Izlalatul Auham Vol I pg no.105
    To answer the claims of the Liar and Apostate Ghulam Qadiani, Shaykh Ul Islam, Arif billah Imam Muhamad Anwar Ullah Farooqui, (May Allah shower His Mercy on him) authored Ifadatul Afham in 2 sizeable volumes. He answered all his gibberish claims and declared him to be out of the fold of Islam. In the beginning of the above mentioned book, he listed all his false claims under the name of “Mafateehul A’alaam”. These claims expose his apostasy and disinformation. Some excerpts of this list are being mentioned here, so as to reveal how this liar has upset and misguided Muslims.

    There is no Prophet after Prophet Muhammad (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم )

    When Prophethood has been concluded after The Seal of the Prophets (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم ), when His Shariat is for all times, arrival of any prophet is inconceivable and impossible. After the Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم ) Prophethood will not be there but Caliphate will be there as Sahih Bukhari, " The Holy Prophet ((صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم ) said: The people of Israil (Bani Israil) were led by their Prophets. Whenever any Prophet passed away into the presence of Allah, another Prophet came as his successor and after Me, there is no Prophet and soon there will be Caliphs and they will be numerous."
    Also in Kanzul 'Ummal, Bab Fazaial As Sahabah, “Prophethood is for me and Caliphate is for you.” It is also mentioned in Kanzul 'Ummal, “I am the last of all Prophets and My Mosque is the last among the mosques of the Prophets.”

    http://www.ziaislamic.com/english/interfaces/books/Allbooks/qadiani/13.html

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 23:31 #
  9. spruce
    Member

    Shaykh Ul Islam’s advice to the Muslims.

    Hadhrat Shaykh ul Islam, the founder of Jamia Nizamia writes after debunking Ghulam Qadiani’s claims using the Hadith “The Traditions of Bukhari and other books mention very clearly that anybody who claims Prophet Hood after Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam is a Dajjal and Liar.
    Even now do Muslims believe that anyone who does not believe in what Ghulam Qadiani is an apostate and dweller of Hell? Can this be true? If the authentic Ahadith of the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) do not affect the heart then what else can we do except to recite “Inna lillah”? But we will tell our brother Muslims to always keep in mind the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad (Salallahu alaihi wa sallam). Otherwise in every age, deviators will come and devise methods to mislead people.” After warning the Muslims against the Qadiani mischief, Shaykh Ul Islam advises Muslims to stay away from them-“We advise our people not to damage their Iman by listening to such speeches and not to pay attention to anything except the Quran and the Ahadith. Qadiani declared Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) to be similar to Prophet Moosa. (Peace be upon him)" After forcefully debunking such claims, Shaykh ul Islam writes “Muslims, Mr. Mirza has declared your Prophet to be similar to Prophet Moosa, are you still waiting for another declaration of such similarity? Were your and your elders’ ears used to listening such unreasonable claims? Till when will you listen to such talk of Mirza Qadiani? Repent! If you want to be spared do not pay attention to any such talk and follow your Elders."

    http://www.ziaislamic.com/english/interfaces/books/Allbooks/qadiani/13.html

    Posted 7 months ago on 21 Oct 2011 23:32 #
  10. Dusky
    Member

    @shaagird: "tehrik-e-taliban pakistan and other barbaric illiterate organisations also unfortunately call themselves muslims!"

    If Sipah-e-Muhammad, Shia Hezbollah and alike can claim thenslves to be Muslim then whats wrong with tehrik-e-taliban??

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 2:15 #
  11. stingingnettle
    Member

    And thus I rest my case; (with apologies) the following is a quote from my contribution to similar thread and is hugely pertinent;

    "The claim about the existence of a consensus view of Islam is the biggest lie that has been told over many generations. This has got to stop."

    This is the the exact problem and the search for this is akin to the search for the Holy Grail.

    When we have freed ourselves from this futile search, only then we will focus our attention on the incredibly urgent and pressing problems we face.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 10:17 #
  12. @All-Indirect-Defendors-of-Qadiyanis

    Let me thank you for your "immense" efforts in helping me in spreading the awareness about the falsehood and deception of Qadiyanis and helping me to expose here that how Qadiyanis are spreading their evil ideology among common Muslims.

    Also, people can clearly observe that, some of the "regular die-hard defendors/supporters" of Imran Khan (IK), have been at great pains in indirectly defending Qadiyanis and have tried useless arguments and slur to change the course of discussion from the actual topic.

    Some of the indirect defendors of Qadiyanis in this thread may actually be Qadiyanis themselves. I sympathize with them for the excruciating pain they must be going through for not been able to directly defend their beliefs. What a pity. It may either be your own cowardice that you are not able to identify yourself as a Qadiyani or you may be hiding behind the "fatwa/excuse" generously granted to you by your elders that "when needed" a Qadiyani can hide his/her beliefs.

    I did not intend to defeat you in the argumentation because I truly believe that an "ignorant cannot be defeated". My intention is to spread the awareness about the falsehood of Qadiyanis and how they misguiding Muslims these days.

    Also, I have been able to expose that why some of the "regular die-hard supporters" of Imran Khan (IK) defend Qadiyanis so ferociously.

    For those who are interested in reading more about the filth contained in the books of Qadiyanis they can read this PDF book in Urdu: Mirzaiyat Aur Islaam

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 14:47 #
  13. hypocrite
    Member

    Are qadyanis non muslim according to Pakistan constitution only or are they non muslims also according to standards and constitutions prevailing in all other countries of this world?

    What is their status in other Muslim countries like Bangladesh, Indonesia, other Muslim middle east countries orother non muslim countries like India?

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 14:58 #
  14. aftab arif
    Member

    @ GV

    "guess what - i dont care what they think - its irrelevant - they are a tiny minority... "

    I will second you on that.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:12 #
  15. @aftab

    But have you observed that some of the supporters of IK are very "energetically" indirectly defending Qadiyanis...its really "daal main kuch kaala"....please beware.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:17 #
  16. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani

    Our resident rant machine, W Durrani has re-emerged from the darkness that is his ignorance. Everyone, a round of applause for him first, especially from "All-Indirect-Defendors-of-Qadiyanis"

    Yes, Durrani, you have been very successful in "spreading the awareness" about your diseased and intolerant mind. But most importantly you have earned 'Swaab' by making us all laugh at your hilarious postings. I thank you on behalf of all the slackers and low-life (as defined by Durrani).

    So here are the questions again if you can find the courage to answer:

    Q1. Are the great armies you belong to, going to leave your dictionaries alone for a minute and do something about the destitute child who needs food, shelter, education and a playground, in any order you like?"

    Q2. Do you think it is correct for the French and Italians to ban the wearing of the headscarf by muslim women in public?

    I will now add a third question; Now that you have carried out a highly cunning mission to expose your stupidity and ignorance,

    Have you got a message of love for all mankind, or should everyone who does not think like just die?

    p.s. Still writing from outside the grave. I know very disappointing.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:22 #
  17. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani;

    Start a new thread titled;

    "Durrani Declares Victory over All Low Life"

    and another one;

    "Durrani Loves Himself More and More;"

    Shall I suggest a few more?

    I wait anxiously for your answer.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:26 #
  18. shaagird
    Member

    @abdul rahman
    thanks for telling what a literate
    i already know it
    and somebody who speaks against the so called muslims, barbarians that are tehrik-e-taliban pakistan, he/she is not necessaryily a believer of charles darwin evolution theory. so stop imposing ur assumptions

    @dusky
    hezbollah has fought israel. it fights for the palestinians, biggest arm supporter of palestine, which is a sunni majority area for your info!
    on what basis have u tried to make a comparison between hezbollah and the bloody talibans who kill only pakistanis and muslims in the name of islam. tell me what have they achieved in pakistan or anywhere else?

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:31 #
  19. @stingingnettle

    Please don't waste your "precious electricity" in waiting for my reply to your useless and distractive questions. As you can read above that I have already accepted my "defeat" in argumentation with you. I truly believe that an ignorant person like you cannot be defeated in any argumentation.

    Please read my reply again if you haven't yet read it properly:

    @All-Indirect-Defendors-of-Qadiyanis

    Let me thank you for your "immense" efforts in helping me in spreading the awareness about the falsehood and deception of Qadiyanis and helping me to expose here that how Qadiyanis are spreading their evil ideology among common Muslims.

    Also, people can clearly observe that, some of the "regular die-hard defendors/supporters" of Imran Khan (IK), have been at great pains in indirectly defending Qadiyanis and have tried useless arguments and slur to change the course of discussion from the actual topic.

    Some of the indirect defendors of Qadiyanis in this thread may actually be Qadiyanis themselves. I sympathize with them for the excruciating pain they must be going through for not been able to directly defend their beliefs. What a pity. It may either be your own cowardice that you are not able to identify yourself as a Qadiyani or you may be hiding behind the "fatwa/excuse" generously granted to you by your elders that "when needed" a Qadiyani can hide his/her beliefs.

    I did not intend to defeat you in the argumentation because I truly believe that an "ignorant cannot be defeated". My intention is to spread the awareness about the falsehood of Qadiyanis and how they misguiding Muslims these days.

    Also, I have been able to expose that why some of the "regular die-hard supporters" of Imran Khan (IK) defend Qadiyanis so ferociously.

    For those who are interested in reading more about the filth contained in the books of Qadiyanis they can read this PDF book in Urdu: Mirzaiyat Aur Islaam

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:34 #
  20. aftab arif
    Member

    @ W Durrani

    Brother thnx for the advice.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:36 #
  21. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani;

    Another wining post! How do you do it?

    Yes, things are pretty shite in Lahore; electricity is like your flirtation with ignorance and intolerance. May be one day you will stop shedding loads and experience load-shedding.

    Any chance of answering the questions? God forbid, you are not admitting (like the three saviours) to not knowing the answers?

    I am waiting, ye great light bulb of knowledge.

    Thanks.

    Copying and pasting only tells me that you always dive in the shallow end of the pool. Does your head hurt often?

    Seriously, my answers please....

    And yes, still writing from outside the grave....

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:42 #
  22. @aftab

    No worries mate.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:42 #
  23. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    Shaagird,

    "hezbollah has fought israel. it fights for the palestinians, biggest arm supporter of palestine, which is a sunni majority area for your info!"

    It was all a drama staged to make a hero out of Hezbollah. They are agents of Israel. Period. Insha'Allah Bait al Muqaddas will be liberated by some one who will neither be a Arab or a Palestinian but someone like Salaeddin. That will be real victory. South Lebanon has no value and no historical significance and that's why Israel handed "victory" to so called Hezbollah on silver plate. BTW, I do not believe in Palestine at all. This is creation of Israel. There was no Palestine in history of Islam. Muslims will go back to the same boundaries which was one country before colonialists made Israel, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and scores of banana republics. Now tell me who will be the majority? Also remember the Hezbollah are fully aligned with the Alawite Baathist thug Assad of Syria. They in cahoot with Iran have killed thousands of innocents. Blood of tens of thousands of innocents is dripping from the hands of these Hezbollah thugs.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:45 #
  24. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani

    Please NEVER read anything that does not help steel over your concrete faith in intolerance.

    I hope you never face temptation or dissent, you might need a defibrillator. Just for safety, keep your inhaler with you.

    Since it is Ok for you tell the Qadiani's what to call themselves, should they have the right to define your religiosity? Quite a simple question.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:51 #
  25. @stingingnettle

    Qadiyanis consider us as kaafirs. What else they can define our religiosity? If you have done the effort of reading the above mentioned book you wouldn't have bothered to ask this question.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:55 #
  26. aftab arif
    Member

    @ stingingnettle

    My friend how did i get dragged into this, i don't care what Qadiyanis want too believe, that's they choice, but i am not a follower of they belief system.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 15:59 #
  27. stingingnettle
    Member

    Aftab;

    Neither am I or care.

    I would like to apologise to you, I think I misunderstood

    "Brother thnx for the advice."

    I am sorry. I will edit the post.

    (I have correct my mistake now)

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 16:05 #
  28. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani;

    Remember there is only two hours of load-shedding today; I could be here forever asking my questions.

    You were saying something about your hatred and intolerance of anybody who does not have identical belief to you....I am all ears.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 16:11 #
  29. shaagird
    Member

    @abdul rahman
    u wish, baby. PERIOD!

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 16:13 #
  30. @stingingnettle

    Let me sadden your day by informing you that I truly and deeply hate that person who holds filthy beliefs that he/she took from Mirza Qadidyan and his crooked cronies.

    Read the book. It may open your eyes.

    Mirzaiat Aur Islaam

    As I said earlier. I accept my "defeat" in argumentation with you because I truly believe that an ignorant person like you cannot be defeated in argumentation.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 16:18 #
  31. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani;

    You see, it wasn't that hard, was it?

    Now,

    How far are you going to take your hatred?

    and

    Who else do you hate? Jews, Christians, Hindus, Muslim slackers?

    Just your own opinion please?

    Have you read anything else apart from the link you keep posting? I mean something that may have been written, a bit more objectively?

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 16:38 #
  32. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani;

    What would you do if you came across a Qadiani child lying in gutter?

    Would you;

    1 Walk on by.

    2 Spit on the and give them more abuse.

    3 Help him/her leaving your prejudice aside.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 16:41 #
  33. @stingingnettle

    I find your ways of argumentation very similar to those of Qadiyanis. They do exactly what you are trying to do here by posing questions in such a way, that to corner the opponent.

    Your futile efforts are bearing no efforts but exposing your hidden soft corner for Qadiyanis. I am sure everyone else can see that and keep your this exposed "soft corner for Qadiyanis" in mind when you "ferociously" defend and praise Imran Khan (IK).

    Yes, I hate every other false beliefs/religions apart from the true Islamic Creed that our pious predecessors (salaf-us-saalih) authentically conveyed to us. As per my understanding I restrict my hatred where it is supposed to be that I am not unjust in my dealings with them. We Muslims have been commanded to be just in dealing with the non-Muslims and treat them well if they treat us well.

    Also, you should realize that the issue of Qadiyanis is different from Jews, Christians, Hindus etc. Qadiyanis openly claim to be Muslims and call others as Kaafirs. Their books filled with the filth and blasphemy. They are very different from the followers of a separate religion but they are in reality the followers of a false prophet and a big liar. It is the responsibility of the Muslim rulers to suppress this fitnah of Qadniyat. In my capacity as an individual and a common all I can do is warn people about the falsehood and deception of Qadiyanis.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 16:58 #
  34. @stingingnettle

    I have dealt with some Qadiyanis. I have applied your advice # 3 to them.

    Not just Qadiyani child but even if a dog is dying of thirst I will provide it water to save its life.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 17:01 #
  35. Its 2:00AM in the morning here in Australia. I need to get some sleep. I will take leave now.

    See you next time.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 17:06 #
  36. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani;

    Sleep tight with your lovely thought;

    "Not just Qadiyani child but even if a dog is dying of thirst I will provide it water to save its life."

    This is what any human will do irrespective of faith.

    So, it's just hot air, your hatred? Better that way.

    Hypocrisy is such a comforting trait.

    It's Official; Durrani does not hate Qadinani's he just says it to make noise on pkpolitics and get some much needed attention.

    Sleep tight W Durrani.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 17:27 #
  37. @stingingnettle

    Let me remind you my earlier post:

    @stingingnettle

    Let me sadden your day by informing you that I truly and deeply hate that person who holds filthy beliefs that he/she took from Mirza Qadidyan and his crooked cronies.

    Read the book. It may open your eyes.

    Mirzaaiyat Aur Islaam

    As I said earlier. I accept my "defeat" in argumentation with you because I truly believe that an ignorant person like you cannot be defeated in argumentation.

    Good night

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 17:41 #
  38. spruce
    Member

    During war between Hezbollah and Israel I asked one of my colleague engineers working with me from Lebanon he said rather then Israel target Hezbollah they destroyed Sunni majority infrastructure, homes, bussineses and forced them to displace from their native areas to change the demography.

    This was game played by USA via CIA to send message to Sunni majority gulf countries that Hezbollah and Iran are big threat to Arabs so that they can blackmail Arabs to take their oil,gold,minerals. And Arabs are habitual of passing luxurious life and they suppose America as their God father and they bypassed the path of true almighty Allah who is savior for human being.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 18:05 #
  39. Dusky
    Member

    @W Durrani

    "@Dusky

    I don't know if you are aware of it but let me inform you that Saudi Arabia doesn't recognise Qadiyanis as Muslims. They are not allowed to perform Hajj.

    You are utterly wrong here. They can not go to Hajj from Pakistan because one has to declare them-self "Muslim" to get the hajj visa. Pakistani constitution (gift of democracy which you hate) declare Qadyanis non-Muslim, so they can not get hajj visa from Pakistan.
    But Saudis don't have any mechanism to stop if Quadyanis are coming from any other country as in rest of the world they still call them-self Muslim and that's what they have on their passport.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 18:53 #
  40. Dusky
    Member

    @W Durrani: "I did not intend to defeat you in the argumentation because I truly believe that an "ignorant cannot be defeated". My intention is to spread the awareness about the falsehood of Qadiyanis and how they misguiding Muslims these days"

    Turn the tables, and your statement stands correct.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 18:57 #
  41. Dusky
    Member

    @shaagird:

    "hezbollah has fought israel. it fights for the palestinians, biggest arm supporter of palestine, which is a sunni majority area for your info!
    on what basis have u tried to make a comparison between hezbollah and the bloody talibans who kill only pakistanis and muslims in the name of islam. tell me what have they achieved in pakistan or anywhere else?"

    Go ask any Sunni living and Lebanon, you will know what they made off. Majority sunnis dont but $hit shia hizbollah sales. I guess you also seen recent exchange of prisoners where all of sudden Israel agree to release the prisoners for one of his solder to give a boost to hizbollah in Palestine and to weaken the position of Mahmoud Abbas, this action alone speaks alot about what "hizbollah" is for Israel.

    Remind us what shia hazbollah achieved for Palestinian??
    Hizbollah is as blood trusty sold out to zionst as TTP.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 19:09 #
  42. Dusky
    Member

    @stingingnettle"
    "Dusky;

    It's not democracy that is the curse; it's only a tool. A chain-saw can be used in more than one way depending on who is using it."

    stingingnettle, my comments were sarcasm for Duranni, who is a stanch opposer of democracy but don't mind using constitution amendment (gift of democracy) to further his agenda.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 19:15 #
  43. stingingnettle
    Member

    W Durrani;

    Your write;

    "Let me sadden your day by informing you...."

    Nothing a person like you can say, will ever sadden my day. The locus of control of my happiness is always within me, you should try it sometime.

    "As I said earlier. I accept my "defeat" in argumentation with you ...."

    So is this what you reason for the discussion was? Winners and losers? Narrow-band thinking?

    This is another difference between you and I. For me there are no winners or losers in a discussion, just clarity with some luck.

    Yes I am ignorant but I know it, you on the other hand are ignorant without ever realising it. Read something that does not confirm your prejudice, you might even discern rest of humanity in the half-light.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 19:52 #
  44. stingingnettle
    Member

    Dusky;

    Thanks for your comments;

    "But Saudis don't have any mechanism to stop if Quadyanis are coming from any other country as in rest of the world they still call them-self Muslim and that's what they have on their passport."

    A very valid point, I think.

    Isn't it odd that people who insist on the Pakistan constitutional declaration about Qadianis be enforced and obeyed, live happily in countries where there is no such declaration against any faith.

    One can learn to live with hypocrisy but it completely impossible to countenance self-righteous hypocrisy.

    A country created to protect the muslim minority (and other minorities) in India ends up persecuting all the minorities within its territories.

    I wonder if people ever think about the origin of hatred in their hearts ie the seminal moment when the hate against a community too root in their heart. Introspection I guess.

    Posted 7 months ago on 22 Oct 2011 20:37 #
  45. hkbajwa
    Member

    I find it crazy that nobody realizes that the persecution of the ahmadis will never EVER achieve its desired result.

    I would very much like to know of even a single example in history where the persecution of a religious group ever resulted in anything other than their strengthening

    That is how faith works. The greater the opposition, the greater the depth and implication of the faith.

    Throughout history it is persecuted minorities that develop the capacity to excel and control. Only genocide can ever wipe out the self-identity of the persecuted minority.

    Now i am sure there are plenty of people who support the outright obliteration of all ahmadis . In fact many will argue that it is an "Islamic" duty.

    To that i can only wonder how in the heck anybody thinks they are going to wipe out ALL adherents of a global faith??? I mean can can nobody see the impossibility of that (Unless of course God himself chose to strike them all down).

    SO since the whole persecution angle only seems to make the ahmadis stronger. And since their methods of sharing their faith is only getting better. And since the sheer injustice of persecution gives them such moral support across the world and even within Pakistan....... Well don't you think it's pretty evident that the current strategy in dealing with ahmadis just can't and won't work???

    So what other options are there really?

    Posted 6 months ago on 30 Oct 2011 16:24 #
  46. @stingingnettle

    It's only the fantasists amongst us who chase this mirage called the All-Action, All-pious and All-praying muslim who is about to bring about a most incredible revolution. The rational realist amongst us think we are not different from others; we are prone to the same temptations as everyone else and that we need to work very hard to make something of our lives and in the process hopefully make Pakistan a better place to live.

    It's the idle fatalists and fantasists who work themselves into a frenzy over definitions.

    I missed it earlier. That was a good point to ponder, but than how would you define or differentiate a Muslim from others (other than muslim customs like prayers etc)?

    Posted 6 months ago on 01 Nov 2011 1:11 #
  47. sunny2874
    Member

    As a true and faithful Muslim, I always think: The gigantic,heavy-weight, super-dooper Islam is perhaps a bit too much on the little brains that we the Muslims have. Do some math and look what %tage of Islam are we representing. How many Quranic ayas out of 6666 ask a Muslim to brand others Kafir? Qadiyanies are misleading Muslims? What the heck, I thought a Muslim's belief is much stronger than Everest. How come a fake religion can shake genuine faith like Islam? O to be Muslims, wake up. Do some research, get to some innovation, create something or explore the universe and beyond. Forget others agenda, Look at your own agenda. It has narrowed down to terming others Kafirs and put others life at risk. Look at your level of knowledge, you believe the Constitution of Pakistan determines who is Muslim and who is not. Who is the engineer of the constitution of Pakistan? What happened to him?

    O Allah give some guidance to the Mullah-Millitary brewed brain recipe of Pakistan and stop them spreading hatred. I do not know how much of Pakistan has been depleted by Non-Muslims but I do know half part has been taken away by Muslims and the other part has been paralyzed by Muslims. O Allah, you said,

    "We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief/corruption in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.[Quran 5:32]"

    I know killing, slaying and violence do not occur out of blues. It happens only when hatred becomes cute and sweet. May God help us stay away from Fasad and agenda of spreading rumors and hatred.

    I would support Muslims against Qadiyanies the day I am assured that Sunnies would stop terming Shias Kafirs and vice versa. No, they would not stop terming each others Kafir, as you can see above comments with Sunnies and Shia discussions. Absolute Shame! The Greatest habit of Allah is Creation. Who is following that habit? At least not we the Muslims. The first diaper that our new born baby wears is not made by Muslims and the last nail in our coffin is even not made by Muslims.

    Posted 6 months ago on 10 Nov 2011 7:14 #
  48. shafiq12
    member

    Ahmaq Voter

    I am assured that Sunnies would stop terming Shias Kafirs and vice versa. No, they would not stop terming each others Kafir, as you can see above comments with Sunnies and Shia discussions.

    Common people are ignorant, they tend to believe what they have been taught in the name of religion ---

    Posted 6 months ago on 10 Nov 2011 8:04 #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.