PKPolitics Discuss » Political Parties

Big Political Gap- Can Imran Fill It?

(84 posts)
12

  1. khanamer
    Member

    Scandi
    your reply is even more pathetic then earlier one

    you are totally ignorant to the facts and event that took place in 90s, how BBs and NSs govt were removed over night, just for your information, neither got any 30 days notice to resign...

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:01 #

  2. sweettruth
    Member

    Our leaders in the past have lived in the shadow of army and more precisely they have danced to the tunes of army generals. ZAB grew in the shadow of Gen Ayub Khan; NS was most favourite politician of Gen Zia. As long as they remained loyal to army they did not have any problems. Both challenged army and paid the price. Now what is the difference between Imran Khan and puppet leaders of past?

    I do not think Imran will make any major difference rather than he will toe the line of army generals. Our democratic institutions are not strong enough to fight with well established all powerful institution of GHQ. India after partition kept army away from politics and we did the opposite.

    Both political shows by PTI in Lahore and MQM in Karachi on same day are yet another reminder to NS and to show him that GHQ does not want him anymore. To become PM, Imran's PTI will have to win at least 20-25 seats and the rest support will come from PPP, PML-Q, MQM and ANP and may be JUI-F can also be given 1 or 2 ministries.

    Political circus has once again started for next election and army (king or PM makers) are busy working out how to keep NS away from power.

    It will be interesting to see relationship between Imran and army generals if Imran becomes PM after next election.

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:02 #

  3. khanamer
    Member

    @sweet truth,

    That is what the game..

    mind you on the same note, These army generals will keep PML-N alive just to keep the ruling party under their thumb

    the best thing suits army is what they developed in 2002... a mixture of all parties, they wanted to have same in 2008 but three things came in their way, death on BB, CJ movement and NS.... had NS given up the movement when he was part of ruling collation in the center... CJ might have never been restored and NRO might have been part of our constitution....

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:07 #

  4. scandinavian
    Member

    @ST

    I don't think we agree, but this one is OK:

    "It will be interesting to see relationship between Imran and army generals if Imran becomes PM after next election."

    Yes, it will be interesting to see whether the GHQ can bend the rules during his tenure. I don't believe so. IK is a very principled man and he will not let the army rum the country...advice from the GHQ is altogether another issue.

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:08 #

  5. scandinavian
    Member

    How did NS enter in this equation since SS, his little brother and Ch. Nisar keep on meeting the generals in the darkness of nights?

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:09 #

  6. khanamer
    Member

    ... same way, IK went ahead and met Pasha in US.... no point in telling you anything, you don't even know how things went downhill and how the mighty army of Pakistan blocked the real change...

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:13 #

  7. Sikandar Riza
    Member

    Imaran khan and the army generals are onboard and on the same page. Thats the reason why nawaz shareef is crying. As pakistani awam army does also like imran khan. And they want pti, jamate islami and other (2008 election boycott) parties in power after next election. Beacuse zardari will most likely escape from pakistan after his finished his tenture as president. And ofcourse rehman malik will rape some more kids and take the first flight to britain.
    please stop saying ghq, isi etc.
    Pakistan army is part of this country and theyll always do whats best for Pakistan.
    We are not living in 1999 world or 1958 world scenario or 1977 world scenario. We are living in 2011 and the army will never take over and abolish the constiution again. The world is changing and the army is trying its best to follow that change. And make better relation between afghanistan, Iran, FATA AND TURKEY AND INDIA ETC.

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:18 #

  8. sweettruth
    Member

    @Scandinavian

    You cannot gain power without support of Army. That is why all politcians keep contacts with GHQ. Don't you think Imran has also got green singal from army generals???

    You cannot do politics in Pakistan without favourable support of GHQ. Full Stop.

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:26 #

  9. sweettruth
    Member

    Let's see what change Imran brings for today's Pakistan and for its people. Zardari is not going anywhere; he is staying as President because he has played and still playing a role of an obedient servant of army and its interests so in my analysis he is not going anywhere.

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:32 #

  10. scandinavian
    Member

    @ST

    "You cannot do politics in Pakistan without favourable support of GHQ. Full Stop."

    It depends on who has moved. PTI still stand by their vision and IF the army has moved towards the PTI agenda, then I understand it. It is NOT the other way round. TOTAL STOP!

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:39 #

  11. sweettruth
    Member

    @Scandinavian

    It is all rubbish having vision and policies and principles in our politics. Army does not beleive in your vision or principles; they want someone who can look after their interests. FULL STOP.

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 14:44 #

  12. stingingnettle
    Member

    Sweettruth;

    This is a moment of paradigm shift. To change Pakistan we need to think outside the box and come up with a rather startling model of doing political business in Pakistan; a model that demonstrates that a political party does not need the support of the military to gain power but only the power of the ballot box.

    Political parties must stay clear of the military and it must be made an act of treason to politicise the military. No politics in the military and no military in politics; that is the new model for a new Pakistan. We are about to change utterly and this is what I believe.

    Posted 6 months ago on 31 Oct 2011 23:07 #

  13. choosy
    Member

    he he he
    Gap fill ho chuka
    ab tou sirf khana puri baqi hay

    aaaya aaya Imran Khan aaya...:):):)

    Posted 6 months ago on 01 Nov 2011 5:00 #

  14. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    A revolutionary leader needs to be capable of dealing with some of the following major problems of the nation:

    * Feudalism: Unless the feudal system is abolished, our
    society can't be levelled for establishment of a proper
    society.

    * Educational System: The system of education is totally
    unbalanced in our country. We have an either an outdated and obsolete maderasa system or a colonial style inadequate system. Establishment of a balanced educational system is a
    challenging task.

    * Judicial System: The colonial style judicial system is
    absolutely useless. It can not deliver justice to the public.
    This whole system needs to be revamped. No society can be a developed society without justice The existent
    corrupt judiciary will not let it be changed easily.
    Only a capable revolutionary leadership can change it.

    * Civil Service: The colonial civil service which established a master & slave relationship between the govt. servant and public is still existent. The civil servants still treat the public like servants and behave like masters. The British civil servants retired from the Indian civil service were never inducted into the British civil service for the reason that they were accustomed of ruling over the people not serving the people like public servants.
    The civil service needs to be revamped. The existent civil servants will never let revamping being done easily. This task is also very challenging.

    Is there any leadership which is capable of doing so many things all together? Or Will a new leadership also end up without any positive results like those of lawyers' movement?

    Posted 6 months ago on 01 Nov 2011 8:16 #

  15. sweettruth
    Member

    @choosy

    Has Imran Khan sold himself to GHQ?

    Posted 6 months ago on 02 Nov 2011 14:00 #

  16. Sikandar Riza
    Member

    Nobody has sold themselfs to ghq etc. These are just dumb stupid afwa.Imran khan and the army is on same page that is to save pakistan. If two political groups or institutions are on same page that doesnt mean that one of them has sold himself to the other. The army and the ISI is the same we should not confuse this term. The pakistan army is serving pakistan's intrests. general kyani and shuja pasha both are very intelligent therefore they know how to smoothly revive pakistan's role in this entire subcontinent. So people like us should see these issues from a broader perspective.

    We are not living in 1999 world or 1958 world scenario or 1977 world scenario. We are living in 2011 and the army will never take over and abolish the constiution again.

    Posted 6 months ago on 02 Nov 2011 22:34 #

  17. HAQKIAWAZ
    Member

    After giving such kind of statement against holy cow IK, Dr Abul Qadeer Khan needs to be ready to face cyber terrorism from Ptian.

    http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1101369326&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20111103

    Posted 6 months ago on 03 Nov 2011 0:16 #

  18. saladin89
    Member

    Well after Minare e Pakistan jalsa most media and awam are saying PTI has arrived!

    What astonished observers more was the kind of people in that rally, first time voters, taxi drivers, youth, mummy and daddy's with children etc. So this shows that PTI has got people from all kinds of backgrounds.

    This popularity will only increase, than decrease because people are sick and tired of the same old faces, and there corruption and mismanagement. The perception of people is that Mr10% and N$ are corrupt to the core. So then why would someone vote for them?

    The big political gap can be filled with the party that represents change which is Tahreek e insaf.

    Media has stated very well that IK has arrived, even certain people that disliked IK have accepted this. And another proof is the psychologists that noon league require.

    Wake up people big political gap will be filled by PTI. However still a lot of work is required.

    Posted 6 months ago on 03 Nov 2011 2:16 #

  19. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The political gap is too wide to be filled up by an ordinary leader. We need a leader of extra ordinary character and calibre.

    Posted 6 months ago on 03 Nov 2011 9:05 #

  20. stingingnettle
    Member

    Sweettruth

    You write:

    "I do not think Imran will make any major difference"

    There is only one way to check this theory; vote in Imran and lets see.

    I have a funny feeling you might lose your money on this wager.

    The difference between Imran's mentality and that of the professional politicans could not be more stark.

    The reason why Imran has a huge appeal for the young is because they are fed up with the mess and the culture of intransigence that their parents have bequeathed them. They want change. Even if Imran is not the best, he deserves a chance to be tested, after all you have tried the others more than once.

    Posted 6 months ago on 03 Nov 2011 22:55 #

  21. sweettruth
    Member

    @stingingnettle

    You are talking about change in above post. Ask yourself what change? Can you bring change in our country without controlling corrupt army generals who have been plundering this country for the last 60 years? Army GHQ is the powerhouse of Pakistan's political system and ISI is its political wing. They control Pakistani political system and select leaders to run our disabled democracy. They do not like good, honest and popular leaders. We all know what they did with Magee, ZAB, Nawaz Sharif and Benazir. Now they are looking for another obedient servant to run this country. As long as you toe GHQ line, you are acceptable to them otherwise you are not in their good book.

    I do not have problem with Imran Khan being given a chance to run this country with the help of army generals. I will say next time give chance to MQM, then to ANP and then to JUI and even to JI. They all are pawns in this army controlled game.

    Crux of my argument is: you cannot bring 1% improvement in this country without stopping army corruption and involvement in politics.

    Posted 6 months ago on 03 Nov 2011 23:48 #

  22. saladin89
    Member

    what about politician corruption, surely bro the army have not robbed as much as these politicians. As long as these corrupt politicians are wondering around we can have 0% change.

    You blame army but in fact there are many that say Dictator period of GM was better than now. Army have there issues howver IK has the will power to stand up to these genereals if need be.

    According to your logic about controlling these genearals N$ has been kicked out by generals and shoved on a plane with one way ticket to jeddah. So Nawaz Sharif is out of the question, because he has been tried and tested and army has dealt with him.

    My thinking is that army has never respected our politicians because the do not have the capability to lead and secondly because of there corruption.

    Posted 6 months ago on 04 Nov 2011 0:00 #

  23. sweettruth
    Member

    @saladin89

    You are 100% wrong when it comes to army corruption. Their share in annual national budget is 60% and the rest is for political leaders and bechari awam gets hardly anything.

    Who is bringing Imran Khan into power?
    Does Imran have capacity/seats to come into power?
    Imran will lose his job if he argues with generals; all our army generals want an "obedient servant" to run this country and not raising a voice against army corruption.

    NS was given chances in the past but he shown arrogance and disrespect to army generals so finally army decided to end his Govt as well as kicked out of the country.

    All our army needs is an obedient person to run this country; a person who will not question army's luxury lifestyle, big budget and perks.

    My question is: Is Imran ready to accept all this?

    Posted 6 months ago on 04 Nov 2011 0:17 #

  24. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    It is mostly the weakness of political class that encourages martial laws. Recently, the war of self-interests by MQM, PPP and ANP had pushed Karachi to total collapse. The businessmen then approached Gen. Kiyani directly and requested for intervention to save our national economy from a collapse. It is Gen. Kiyani's intervention which established peace in Karachi. Is it not the beginning of a forthcoming martial law?

    We have a big political gap in our politics. Some good leadership needs to fill it up, otherwise, the country seem to be headed towards an utter collapse.

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 5:50 #

  25. saladin89
    Member

    Yes PTI can fill it, did u not watch the October 30th jalsa?

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 8:02 #

  26. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Yar saladin89 saheb,

    jallsas and jaloos of JI are also always very large. What is their success rate?

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 8:04 #

  27. stingingnettle
    Member

    Sweettruth;

    "
    Can you bring change in our country without controlling corrupt army generals who have been plundering this country for the last 60 years? "

    The answer to that, I accept, is no. I have no disagreement with you that a lot is chronically wrong with the top military leadership and that needs urgent attention. We need to prise our country out of the grip of these corrupt usurpers of power.

    We do have to start somewhere.

    "I do not have problem with Imran Khan being given a chance to run this country with the help of army generals."

    This is where I don't agree with you. Imran will not come to power with the acquiescence of the generals as they will be the target of accountability as other civilians.

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 14:31 #

  28. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    You keep on being pessimistic. Unfortunately you cannot help it. This is not what Insafians are known for. We will continue to believe in positiveness i.e. a mandate so PTI can put Pakistan on track!

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 15:48 #

  29. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    sting

    Imran's supported CJ is enjoying a chance of proving himself. What has he proved so far in three years time? Does Imran have moral courage to question Chaudhary for his disappointing performance?

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 15:50 #

  30. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Scandinavian

    Sorry to disagree with you. Large sized jalsas and jaloos are not criteria of proving the popularity of any political party. PPP and JI hold big jalsas and jaloos in Karachi. What is the graph of their popularity in Karachi?

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 15:52 #

  31. scandinavian
    Member

    The biggest issue is not to challenge the CJP. The biggest issue for now is a regime change. We MUST get rid of parties of the status quo. When a new fresh and honest government is in place any person who is not acting according to the law can be dealt with.

    Otherwise get used to see such scenes and don't complain:

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 15:54 #

  32. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    Btw: Who are you going to vote for or are you going to sit at home and let others decide yours and the nations fate?

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 15:56 #

  33. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Dear Scandanavian

    Why did then Iftikahr Chaudhary make rhetoric claims of change during lawyers' movement? He has caused heavy trust deficits to the nation for trusting any true and sincere leadership.

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 15:58 #

  34. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    See my response in another thread.

    Posted 6 months ago on 05 Nov 2011 16:00 #

RSS feed for this topic

12

Reply

You must log in to post.