PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion
Blind Faith - Blasphemy laws documentary
(28 posts)-
yahya
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 2:01 # -
shirazi
Member@nota & AK
I hope you guys won't turn this thread again into qadeyani and anti-qadeyani discussion.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 2:39 # -
khanseena1
MemberThe sooner we get rid of blasphemy law in its present form, the better.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 3:34 # -
Abdul Rahman
Membershirazi,
It is guys like you who are guilty conscious and zero down on the qadiyanis.
Devient blasphemous sects like the qadiyanis are nothing new. They emerged in various parts of Muslim world thoughout history when the teachings of Islam were neglected and ignorance was widespread. It was in this climate that such groups sprung. Most of these groups were crushed in the bud earlier when there was some semblance of Islamic law in some parts of the Muslim world. However during the British rule and right after the dismemberment of Ottoman Caliphate such gruoups were patronized by the British colonialists and hence they established a foothold.
Most of the secular educated Qadianis penentrated the defense and civil establishment. Some of the leading qadianis were "bestowed" the title "Sir" by the British. Case in point "Sir" Zafrullah Khan. The man made secular laws inherited from the British makes it difficult to tackle these group. The blasphemy law in my humble opinion should be preceded by Shariah law to make any meaningful resolution.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 3:45 # -
irshad khan
MemberBalasmy Law has to be amended, it is against the principals and teachings of Islam.
It is very easy in Pakistan to accuse an Ahmedi or a Christian of Balasmy to settle a score, people will go crazy and a death warrant will be issued immediately by some illiterate mufti or Mullah against the accused party even before he or she goes to court.
This law has serious flaws and it has to change if we like to be called a civilized nation.Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 6:21 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Video: Syed Munawar Hasan Talking About Blasphemy Law & 31 Dec Strike
30-December-2010
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Source: Youtube Channel: pakjamaatPosted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 7:15 # -
yahya
MemberBlasphemy Law: the Shape of Things to Come
The second, and perhaps more potent reason the law will not be repealed is because the law was consciously meant to promote the Islamist project that the deep state (or a powerful section of the deep state) continues to desire in Pakistan. The blasphemy law is a ready-made weapon against all secular opposition to the military-mullah alliance (though some sections of the military now seem to have abandoned that alliance, hence the qualification “section of the deep state”). Secular parties are suspected of being soft on India and are considered a danger to the Kashmir Jihad and other projects dear to the heart of the deep state. At the same time, Islamist parties provide ideological support and manpower for those beloved causes. In this way, the officers of the deep state, even when they are not personally religious, recognize the need for an alliance with religious parties and against secular political forces (Musharraf was a good example). They have been forced into an uneasy (temporary?) compromise with secular parties by circumstances beyond their control (aka America) but with American withdrawal a real possibility, the deep state does not wish to alienate its mullah constituency too much. They will be needed again once the Yankees are gone. Hence, no repeal at this time.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 7:25 # -
toamin
memberblasphemy law enacted in pakistan is british authored law, it got amended by various rulers, but it is still a british colonial law, so are all other laws & regulations in Pakistan, i am for uprooting the whole colonial law and replace it with Islam :)
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 7:28 # -
yahya
Memberblasphemy law enacted in pakistan is british authored law, it got amended by various rulers, but it is still a british colonial law
Funny that decades old british law was not a problem but as soon as maulanas touched it, it became a huge problem. Evidence that a) secular British of decades ago were smarter than maulanas of 21st century and b) maulanas should stay out of affairs of state.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 7:38 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Salam: In this instance, your words have 'fallen' 'short' of 'doing' a 'good' 'job' of 'representing' Muslims or 'interests', 'well-being' of Muslims.
According to JI's Chief this law was enacted in 1986, not in the British Colonial Era.
I encourage you to endevour to do better.
Having said that, yes, I agree with you, we need to struggle in the direction of throwing away British Colonial era laws, rule-sets, ways of life and returning to Islam's guidelines, standards, ways, principles, rules, laws, etc etc.
British Colonial Era laws are 'oppressive', 'regressive'. Islam's guidelines, standards are 'futuristic'.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 8:50 # -
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 8:50 #
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Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
The stats displayed at the end of the second video, in the original message, are incorrect.
I implore people to make the effort to confirm, re-confirm, and then re-confirm them, before believing in them. Or better yet, ignore them.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 9:02 # -
Blasphemy law is the most dangerous weapon ever wielded and came in the hands of Politico-Religious parties to use it at their own will and whims.
We can see that load shedding of gas that housewives are unable to prepare food at houses, the daily outage of electricity for hours that it has become a norm, the rocketing high price hike of groceries or the killing in hundreds by suicidal attacks may not be of any concern of Mullah but the blasphemy law that somehow a segment of civilized society feels that these laws be amended as these are too harsh and are being grossly misused. Mullah feels highly perturbed?
One finds it most outrageous that after all why this law granting the protection to Divine prophet hood of Hazrat Muhammad (saw) is required by the Muslims in a country when they themselves are in total majority?
Absurd it may be that present government probably may not gather enough courage in the face of ferocious mullahs to bring about some amendments.
The subject protection which is so reverently sought by the Mullah for their own use in this law; the fairness of business demands that it be extended to all the Divine prophets;;; that God say; ‘all his prophets are equal in status and he makes no distinction among them’.
--Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 9:20 # -
AMEND IT; TO EXTEND IT
TO ALL THE DIVINE PROPHETS
"WE DO NOT MAKE ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN THEM"; SAYS ALLAH
Ideally; the blasphemy law in total be abolished altogether that such absurdity has got no place in the religion of Islam.
But here the Mullah after having spread the fear and terror in the society seemed to have done a careful calculation and appreciation of the current situation in the country; he finds it ripe to make all such moves —which may facilitate his advances toward the seat of power at the centre.
Fazlur of JUI has not quitted government for heck of it; something big is in offing in this regard.
But in the light of all above; to abolish the law may not be just realistic approach; Mullah may not abandon this tactical weapon of his at this stage so easily.
The best way to take the sting out is that this law and protection provided by this law be extended to all the other divine prophets and the scriptures.
The Quran Says:
Al Baqarah[2-285]:”This Messenger of Ours believes in that which has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers: all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, saying, ‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ and they say, ‘We hear, and we obey. We implore Thy forgiveness, O our Lord, and to Thee is the returning.”
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 9:34 # -
Christians they believe in Jesus (as) and in his sheer love, have rather elevated his status from a prophet of God to be the son of God and even the God himself. So much so that they think that Jesus is the only saviour of this world and atonement of all the peoples may only come through him.
In persuasion of their belief; Christian they ought to negate anybody other than Jesus. To defend their prophet Jesus at all cost becomes incumbent upon them.... so anything they say or demonstrate; for others it may look Blasphemy or whatever---- but for them ... they are simply defending their own belief.
Islam happens to be the latest in scheme of religions of God. God Almighty declares in Quran that He has eventually selected Islam as religion for the whole mankind. The believers of Prophet Muhammad (saw) they also believe that God Almighty has told them through Quran that after the advent of Prophet Muhammad (saw) all the previous denominations including Christianity of Jesus and the Jews and all the old denominations; they stand superseded.
Muslims the flag bearers of Islam have got a great job at hand. They ought to sure know this as what all is there at stake. They are required to show their magnanimity, a special perseverance and wisdom that how best they could convince others that Islam is here which validates the truth of the older religions and ask them to hearken; join the Muslim’s ranks and files for their atonement. Islam being the latest in Divine religions; is just not the religion of Muslims only but Islam is every body’s religion.
This world does not need any Blasphemy law of any kind coming out of the House of Islam...the forbearance of Islam demands from the Muslims that they need to prove that how they excel all others. As they are the Best and are the notch above the rest on this planet.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 10:41 # -
Let’s update ourselves on Blasphemy Law: its history in Brief.
This Blasphemy law was introduced earlier in 1927 during the British Raj to thwart any communal riots between Hindus-Muslims and Sikhs, which also formed part of Pakistan penal code section 295 and 295A which says:
PPC 295 Injuring or defiling places of worship, with intent to insult the religion of any class Up to two years' imprisonment or with fine, or with both
PPC 295A Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs----Up to ten years' imprisonment, or with fine, or with both
General Ziaul Haq the chieftain of all the Mullahs amended and formulated a new ordinance called as 1986 ordinance which is as follows:
PPC 295B Defiling, etc., of Holy Quran----Imprisonment for life
PPC 295C Use of derogatory remarks, etc; in respect of the Holy Prophet---Death* and fine
But it did not satisfy the Mullahs and General Ziaul Haq the chieftain of all the Mullahs amended and formulated yet another 1986 ordinance called Ahmadi specific law which is as follows:
PPC 298A Use of derogatory remarks etc., in respect of holy personages---Three years' imprisonment, or with fine, or with both
PPC 298B Misuse of epithets, descriptions and titles etc., reserved for certain holy personages or places, by Ahmadis---Three years' imprisonment and fine
But it was extended specifically for Ahmadies and marked as 298C:
PPC 298C An Ahmadi, calling himself a Muslim, or preaching or propagating his faith, or outraging the religious feelings of Muslims, or posing himself as a Muslim Three years' imprisonment and fine
Ahmadies were already declared as Non-Muslims under the Second amendment of constitution of 1974 which says:
CONSTITUTION (SECOND AMENDMENT) ACT, 1974
An Act to amend the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan [Gazette of Pakistan, Extraordinary, Part I, 21st September, 1974]
***
The following Act of Parliament received the assent of the President on 17th September,1974, and is hereby published for general information:-Whereas it is expedient further to amend the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for the purposes hereinafter appearing ;
It is hereby enacted as follows:-
1- Short title and commencement.
(1) This Act may be called the CONSTITUTION (SECOND AMENDMENT) ACT, 1974
(2) It shall come into force at once.
2- Amendment of Article 106 of the Constitution.
In the Constitution of Islamic Republic of Pakistan, hereinafter referred to as the Constitution in Article 106, in clause (3) after the words "communities" the words and brackets "and persons of Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves 'Ahmadis')" shall be inserted.
3- Amendment of Article 260 of the Constitution.
In the Constitution, in Article 260, after clause (2) the following new clause shall be added, namely--
(3) A person who does not believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of The Prophet hood of MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him), the last of the Prophets or claims to be a Prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him), or recognizes such a claimant as a Prophet or religious reformer, is not a Muslim for the purposes of the Constitution or law.
* Death penalty was inserted by Nawaz Sharif; yet another candidate of would be called “ Ameerul Momineen”
Please read the article for further details,
Engineering of a Doctrine in quest for Power to Rule
Link ref: http://www.adab-arz.co.uk/?p=2462
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 11:18 # -
No doubt the Blasphemy law is so in discriminatory;
When something is brought up to discuss like the 'Mullahs strike against the amendment in the subject law ---.... as a ‘current issue’ is pushed down here----- on Bhethanda Lines of ‘Faith and religion section’.
No need to remind that dear sir; this is no more a case of faith and religion and never was----rather far from it.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 11:52 # -
jaypk
Memberabdul rehman.....another ashiq e namoos e risalat...( acc to a new def..an ashiq e namoos e risalat have to axe non muslim as much as they could and would always need man made parliamentary laws to aid their cause..)
@abdul..Devient blasphemous sects like the qadiyanis are nothing new. They emerged in various parts of Muslim world thoughout history when the teachings of Islam were neglected and ignorance was widespread.
i like the last 2 lines...summarizes the sorry state of us..including you and me..i like confessions..! no wonder..!
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@abdul..However during the British rule and right after the dismemberment of Ottoman Caliphate such gruoups were patronized by the British colonialists and hence they established a foothold.
so why didnt they patronize the ottomans..and why didnt the patronize the mughals...and why didnt they patronize the jauhars and khilafat movement..? thr was no need to as all of them fell because of their own misdeeds...so whdeva is gong thru well in this world is becasue of either european aid..or zionist lobby..or colonial raaj....we have a justification fr our failures everytime isnt it?
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@abdul...Most of the secular educated Qadianis penentrated the defense and civil establishment.
and who let them pass thru...and who let them penetrate??..the non ahmadi MUSLIM secular establishment...including you and me...! so stop bickering..and before pointing one finger...four are poiinting back towards us..!
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@abdul..Some of the leading qadianis were "bestowed" the title "Sir" by the British. Case in point "Sir" Zafrullah Khan
God...whr are you getting all this nonsense??
...whd abt..SIR allama iqbal (sorry he had links with ahamdis)....SIR syed ahmed khan (sorry he was british agent as well) ....but whd abt SIR aga khan who was made the imam and spiritual leader while he was only 8 years old ( this is the state of religion in islam) and he sat with quenn victoria on the right hand side whn he was 21 but we cant declare those three times prayer saying non muslims cz they are in huge numbers...isnt it?? you dnt have the balls to do tht..! but if someone represented the nation in UN we kick him and discredit all his efforts cz he was a .....!
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and finally..whd a remarkable comment...hatts off..
The man made secular laws inherited from the British makes it difficult to tackle these group.
whd happened to this man made secular british law in 1974 whn with the help of this same law we have declared them non muslims in the parliament..was it something else you are looking fr?? ohhh you want to be given the liberty to shoot at sight to TACKLE these groups...tht would fulfill your utmost desires to spread the good name of religion..
..we have made religion so feeble that we had to take the help of man made parliaments and man made laws to implement the honor and dignity of prophethood...as if naoozubillah Allah SWT couldnt safeguard his beloved prophet (PBUH) integrity.....shame..!
next time whn you are writing something think of the repercussions it may have...!
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 12:58 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
(1) A Muslim was murdered in USA. He was a cab driver.
News: Cab driver stabbed for being a Muslim in New York
Who protested for him ?
(2) A young, pregnant married Muslim woman was stabbed to death in Germany, in the court of law, her husband was shot in the leg by a policeman in the same court of law
Who protested for her, for them ?
Who raised hue and cry to this scale for those Muslims, for their rights ?
(3) There's the case of Afia Siddiqui, her small children
(4) there's the case of thousands of Pakistanis' who were sold off to USA in the time of Mr. Musharraf, who are still 'unknown'
Who protested for them ?
(5) Muslim minority don't even have the right of 'representation' in France or some other European country
Who protested for them ?
(6) US/Nato/western forces conducted a bloodbath in the city of Falluja, in Iraq
Who protested for the mass murder of those innocent Muslims by foreign occupation forces ?
(7) There's videos on youtube of American 'contractors' killing Muslims at random in Iraq, for fun
Who protested for the mass murder of those innocent Muslims by them ?
(8) Minarets were recently banned in Switzerland
Who protested on that ?
(9) Muslims are 'generally' 'equated' with 'terrorists' in most all of western mass media
Who protested on that ? Who raised hue and cry on that ?
I can go on and on and on with the instances of injustices happening with Muslims in non-Muslim lands.
Which of these so-called human rights groups protested for them ? raised this scale of hue and cry for them ?
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 14:19 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Video: Iraqi Contractors Go On Shooting Spree
unkown
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Source: Youtube Channel: (hidden by youtube)Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 14:41 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
The protests by some people within Pakistan, its not about human rights. Its about their 'hatred' for Islam, their 'rejection' of Islam.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 14:45 # -
HK,
Above videos and news may reflect a general changing trend against Muslims in the west but what these videos and news have got to do with the Blasphemy law?Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 18:33 # -
yahya
Memberwhat these videos and news have got to do with the Blasphemy law?
When in doubt...apply massive diversion.
Apparently documentary has done a good job in explaining the problem with blasphemy laws.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 18:59 # -
HK,
‘Hatred’ and ‘Rejection’ of Islam.They say eye line is a buy line. You only buy items which you are able to see and these suit and sooth your eyes.
The most horrible picture of Islam what is being presented and depicted by the present day Muslims.... I wonder someone will like to even come near it.
The king of all the flowers; the Rose flower may have numerous thrones attached to it on its stems but everybody is attracted to it;----simply-- for its beautiful shape, the colour and the sweet smell and fragrance that it delivers.
Of course people hate to touch and reject the flowers releasing bad smells.
I pray and hope that sense prevails and kinds of laws of Islam will prevail longest and widest and that the time may come when Muslims’ deeds will smell as sweet as Roses.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 19:16 # -
Yahya,
Sir, are you Haroon yahya from Turkey?
with best of my regards
A Khokar,
email: aaykhokar@yahoo.co.ukPosted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 19:20 # -
Yahya,
Sir, please accept my heartiest congratulations for your worthy efforts and production of such a good documentary; it was the requirement of the day.
In Pakistan through coercion and spread of fear and terror; the confidence of public in their daily life and their honour is totally shattered. It fell in the grip of evil forces and is held there in their spell as ransom and they are totally found subjugated in the name of religion.
The high degree corruption of present government, the mullacracy, the atmosphere of anarchy in the society, bloodshed, drones attacks, the never ending price hiking;---- life of a common man is but a misery.
The politico-religious parties although have no credibility among public but they have always been trying very hard to come to power. After Bhutto who was able to gather a big political clout by declaring Ahmadi as heretic and non -Muslims, Later general Ziaul haq as well as Nawaz sharif also made Ahmadiyya as scapegoat and used their element of heriticy to prolong their stay in power and create a cadre of Ameerul Momineen in the country. With issue of special ordinances; ever since Ahmadies are being punished and are placed defunct as third class citizens. But unfortunately after the coup of 1999 of Musharraf ---their dreams were shattered.
But as rust and devil never sleeps so have these politico-religious groups. After the gap of some 12 years, now under the directions of JI and Fazlur of JUI , they are once again on the move using the same old formula of Ahmadiyya heriticy----but with the fresh label of Blasphemy law.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Jan 2011 23:28 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@yahya: First, the videos you posted, you 'broadcasted' wrong 'statistics' about blasphemy law in those videos. In-fact you willingly spread 'propaganda' (i.e., wrong information).
Secondly, no one in that 'tiny' group of people got affected by the Blasphemy law to-date. No convictions have been handed out using this law to-date. This was mentioned in an earlier video that I posted. It is clear to me that you didn't even bother to go through it. Which demonstrates to me and everyone else that you'r an 'irrational', 'unreasonable' human being.
In essence, you who posted wrong information yourself to begin with. And you'r going to tell me I'm posting something irrelevant to the topic at hand ? That's hypocr|cy.
I gave you multiple examples of how Muslims are treated when they are as minorities in non-Muslim nation states, Empires. You 'totally ignored' all of those cases (Should I be worried due on your conduct ?). You focused 'only' on the later part of my post.
I was 'building the case' for Muslims, 'going' 'one step further' in portraying what injustices are being done to Muslims by non-Muslims even in our own lands, let alone those that happen with Muslims when they are as minorities in non-Muslim nation states.
Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed and the number is increasing day by day. Yet these same groups who raise 'this much' hue and cry for a tiny group of people in our land who to-date haven't been affected by blasphemy law, they haven't raised a 'peep' worth of voice for those massive scale injustices, which are far more in number and level of cruelty, that are being forced upon Muslims.
You people ignored all the cases I mentioned above the video I posted, and 'focused' only on the video. Why ? You gave me reason to find your conduct, as disturbing.
When some group of people within our ranks raise 'hue and cry' against Blasphemy law, they raise their voices for one 'supposed' injustice that 'hasn't' affected anyone in that tiny group of people.
They are 'spreading' 'propaganda'. And you! are willingly becoming part of it, by further propagating their 'propaganda', without confirming what you are spreading. That shows me your credibility, as well as with whom do your loyalties lie.
What these same people don't bother to raise hue and cry about is the plethora of incidents that have happened with Muslims, when they are as minority in non-Muslim nation states. I'v already posted some incidents in my post(s) above. That's a crystal clear indication of these people's 'double standards'.
Now, why would anyone accept the words of a group of people who have 'double standards' ?
I repeat: You 'focused on' was the video part of my post ? Why ignore the rest ? I surmise, you people ignored it because you have no answers for it.
P.S. Again, you 'profess' to being a Muslim, yet you 'stab' your fellow Muslims in the back by taking side of non-Muslims, in propagating their 'propaganda', which you never bother to confirm with someone, for whether it is right or wrong. Which demonstrates that your an 'unjust' human being.
If you continue this activity, you'll soon end up ditching your credibility in the ground. Which will result is no one having a reason to believe in what you say, no matter what you say.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jan 2011 7:15 #
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