shikra
Blocked
In one of my previous postings I acknowledged the contributions of very good scholars at the forum such as
Fahim, Javed Sheikh, Khan Sahib, Mulla, Larki, LetsDoIt, Beena, Rafi, Netengr, Peterpan, Azeem.
A few newcomers are also playing well.
I open the site to read something new from these learned writers.
Today I must take my Hat Off for JS for his QUOTE OF THE YEAR.
JS, You have put the ocean in the jar by declaring,
"I AM MUSLIM BY CHANCE NOT BY CHOICE."
Beautiful.
IJay
member
what about christain jews and hindu when the born God ask them you want to be jew ,hindu or christian or else.
Every newborn who came to this world chooses his religion by chance ! Islam one of the religionsjust like hinduism,christianity and judism
A devine religion is a decipline, a code of conduct, laid out for humanity to be followed.
An individual is born as a result of circumstances, planned or otherwise but certainly not of his or her own choice.
Religion is thought of as a birthright, but you can be born into any religion and deem it as your birthright and later you may convert to a religion of your own choice.
Here is what I came across, and for you to judge:
Mankind and the universe were not created by accident or chance, but according to the plan of the Creator, who is known as Allah (lit.:the one God) in Islam. The Qur'an states that it is the duty of all individuals to learn about Allah and to live according to His will. As
we cannot accomplish this be ourselves, Allah has sent messengers and prophets to guide humanity All of these chosen individuals have brought the same message and have served as examples to their people of how Allah desires all human beings to live. Through these selected people, we have been told why mankind was created, what will happen to us after death, and what Allah expects of us. But most
importantly, we have been told that Allah is unique-He has no partners, no sons or daughters, and no competitors, as so many other man-made religious systems have postulated. This message always remains the same, whereas the laws laid down for a particular might show some slight differences.
Muhammad (saw), the last of Allah's prophets, was sent to present Allah's revelation in its final form and for the last time. This was necessary because the message delivered by the previous prophets and messengers had been corrupted or distorted by their followers. They had been mixed with philosophical speculations, superstitions, myths, and neglect. Therefore, Islam is not a new religion-it is a restatement of the original religion of Allah in its purest form and is designed to provide humanity with the uncorrupted message of Allah.
ISLAM IS YOUR BIRTHRIGHT
Islam states clearly that everyone is born a Muslim and is therefore monotheistic by nature. We read in the Qur'an that humanity has been created with the natural disposition towards the unity of God. This is to be expected, for Allah, who has breathed His spirit into each of us, is Himself the example of perfect unity. In the words of
the Prophet Muhammad: "Every person is born with the innate
religious faith (to submit to God Almighty)." Thus when an individual accepts Islam, he is not turning his back on any prior revelation but rather is returning to the original and true revelation of Allah and to his own nature as a creation of Allah. This being the case, Islam is your birthright-other religious or ideological systems are either
corruptions our outright denials of Islam. Islam is not a new religion founded by Muhammad, but a final restatement of the original revelation that has been conveyed to
humanity by messengers and prophets sent by Allah for that very purpose: "This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion" (5:3). As the Qur'an is the final revelation and Muhammad(saw)is the final prophet, humanity is obligated to accept it: "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost all spiritual good" (3:86).
THE CHOICE IS YOURS TO MAKE!!!
NNL
member
Arey yaar the Point is
If you believe that you are by chance a Muslim so now you have a choice to call yourselve whatever you wish but yet you persistent to call yourself a Muslim all the while whining that how bad is Islam.
Like **** this aint highschool no peer pressure.
Just stop calling yourself a Muslim and it might cure you of the predicament you are in.
Denial doesnt help people.
@Semirza
Beautiful Quote.
chechen
Member
Shikra,
Here is am German Ambassador who embraced Islam . Crackpots like JS although supposedly born as Muslim ( as a matter of fact all new borns are Muslims until later part of their life) says foolishly that it was chance. We should be ashemed in fromnt of new Muslims like Murad. You can find several of his articles in web. He goes on to say that Islam is the answer to all majot problems facing humanilty. Islam has intrinsic capabilities to solve mankind's proble. Subhan'Allah.
Islam in the West: Dr. Murad Hoffman ( Former German Ambassador)
I am a German, and I am a Muslim. It would be silly for me to be proud to be a German - did I chose my parents? - but am glad to be a German. In fact, I owe a great deal to having grown up within German culture and with the German language: both are problem-solving kits, so to speak. And yet, I am very glad indeed to be a Muslim. It would be silly for me to be proud to be Muslim - did I chose Islam, or was I not chosen by Allah to revert to His religion? Consequently, I feel quite at home in the Muslim world. In fact, whenever I am not there, I feel homesick for Makkah.
msohail83
Member
NNL
I second your thoughts.
Take your Islamophobic agenda somewhere else folks.....
I don't see any problem to stay with the name my parents gave me.
I am quite comfortable as a part of 90% non-practicing Muslims living secular life, practically.
Thanks NNL.
NNL
member
Sir Ji it isnt your name that you constantly whine about.
ITs the religion as you say thrust on you. So why still keep identifying yourself of that religion. Atleast here where the info is free and no one can trace you , you try to alleviate your pain and suffering.
Allah keep me on the path, thou liken, not on the path of those who confuse thy gifts with shame.
all of us are your childern-like even though Ya Allah you have no family, yet your blessings are fatherly and motherly, halt the hate in our minds so that our hearts unite...
Allah HELP me on thy path, as I stumble on every step, steadfast my steps as I cross the sea of LIFE , torn and ripped apart with strife and unhollyness....
Allah take me BACK as I was brought forth....empty and helpless , nude and sensless.....pure without any prejudice...
Allah honestly, I am tired , really I am tired of your world and its circus , of everything in it , I am just tired .....
Help me return with thy love!
Mulla!
How you people would evaluate great persons like Mirza Ghalib, Mir Taqi Mir, Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Allama Iqbal, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Liaqat Ali Khan and Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah?
To what level you would rate them as Muslim?
10/10-5/10-or 1/10?
Were they practicing or non-practicing Muslims?
Did persons like Maulana Modoodi, Mufti Mahmood and other 'Practicing Muslims' served the humanity more than those?
skyfacts
Blocked
javedsheikh
just try to understan islam first,its not so easy thing to understand,you are half guided man,i must say this typo of thinking will lead you to some mental problem.
dont insist pls,u dont know what islam is really,the actual rules and regulations,some fix and some variable,you must know abt thiese rules first.
it will tead you mentally tired cuz you have a mix type of thinkings
ITS AN ADVICE........
shamwariz
Member
Mullahs teach the Islam in the funniest equation of Heavens and Hell.
Do good for the Greed of Heaven, Hoors( beautufull girls of Heaven). Palaces in Heaven, Canals of Milk and Honey in Heaven
Don’t do bad scare of Fire, Snakes, Mosquitoes.
What about non Moslim Good persons who do good exceptionally but not for Greed and they don’t even believe in Heaven. Hoors, palaces and Canals of Milk and Honey in Heaven..
They don’t do bad but dot believe in Hell, Snakes, Fire…
skyfacts
Blocked
shamwariz
BE AWARE LOW MENTALITY PPL THINKS LIKE THAT FOR HELL OR HEAVEN.
MOMIN JUST DO ANY GOOD THING JUST FOR THE ALLAH,BECAUSE ALLAH DESERVES IT TO BE WORSHIPD,BUT AGAIN ALLAH DOESNOT NEED OUR PRAYER'S.........
IJay
member
yes they teach in funniest manner but who stopped from learning IT IN serious manner swhamwariz ..have you ever tried it? Mullah is not responsible FOR YOUR DEEN
IJay
member
SKYFACTS!
YOU see line is getting clearer day by day.. pakistan is very close to its final destination
skyfacts
Blocked
ijay
come in personal contact,it would be much better having share our opinion.
@skyfacts, Ijay, NNL, chechen,
You think you are doing yourself or any Muslim any favours by ridiculing someone that says he is a Muslim by choice?
You stink of arrogance in your posts...... I do not see arrogance having any part in a Muslim's thought processes.
Think over it, before you write anymore about your CHOSEN DEEN, my fellow scholars!
skyfacts
Blocked
we are having ppl with no logics and just story writers here.
if you are talking about islam you must have enough knowledg.we are not going to respect some one on the cost of our ISLAM.
if you are not having knowledge abt islam than choose some other topic.
I NEVER SEEN SUCH CHILDISH AND CASUAL ATTITUDE OF SOME ONE ,SAYING I M BY CHANCE NOT BY CHOICE A MUSLIM.
What is wrong with you People?
I don't see anything wrong in JS statement!
All of us are born "Muslim" By chance and not by choice!
Later due to efforts put in by our parents,socitey which made us continue to stay as "Muslims" After all before and even after arrival of ISLAM, not everyone was Mulsim! Or were they? Hazrat Abu Bakar,Hazrat Ali, Hazrat Umar.... All of them embraced ISlam later in their life!
I can't understand the logic behind this topic any way! If you are born Mulsim by chance then what exactly we are doing for our Emman? By Denying a group of muslims. the rite to live from another province though they ironically are from the same country?
Or By killing each other in the name of SHIA, SUNNI, Wahabi,Bralvi?
Cmon Guys! Grow up and talk about issues which actually matter to the mankind specially Muslims!
NNL
member
My Friends Oriel and Khan Sahib.
If that statement was made in the sense that we are Muslims by chance thus havent bothered to study Islam completely. I would have agreed to it. Cos yes thats a Fact we are Muslims cos we were born in Muslim Households.
But my comments were directed to the people who say their are Muslims by chance and then proceed ahead to give low opinions regarding Islamic Laws. and therein lies my problem. If you are so much against and disagree with Islamic Teachings as according to them it doesnt conform with the Modern Society, Culture and 21st Century then why do they even bother to call themselves Muslims Change your religion if you find so much wrong in Islam why continue to call yourself somethign in which you dont believe in.
Go thru the posts made in the past week or so. See their comments are mostly against the Islamic Laws. IF their comments had said the Muslims are wrong as they arent following the true values of Islam then yes i m in complete agreement with them as i personally believe we can be better Muslims.
But they say that Polygamy, Issues of Divorce and Inheritence, Rights of Women and Law of Apostasy is all wrong in the Holy Quran and Islam as a whole is very deterimental to the Women of the Modern World. On asking who they are they say Muslims. IF they truly believe that Islam is the most backward religion then why do they associate themselves with it.
There is no force stopping them from changing their religion. Why call yourselve something which you are clearly despising.
Oriel i dont claim to be any scholar cos i m not one. nor do i label people as Kuffirs or Munafiqs as its called Takfeer and thats declared Haram. But what i can do is that call it as it is.
I hope i have clarified myself.
NNL
member
Look at the Post of Shamwariz
the first 2 lines though written in despisement of Mullas/Molvis but its a jab at Allah's Word in the Quran.
Do you not see that.
@NNL..
I am mainly reffering to the JS comments about "Muslim by chance and not by choice"
JS knows that very well that I don't agree with his "Religious" views and I also oppose any person who tries.propose to bring changes in Quran or its teaching to bring "Islam" upto the mark in 21st century. I Believe that whatever is in Quran makes the basis of the religion of Islam.
We may have differences on other issues like hadees etc but that should not give one group of muslims any rite to issue a "Fitwa" or call them non mulims or Kaffir ( I am not reffering to you here)
I hope I have made my self clear as regards to my previous posting
This is also a FACT what Mr. JS wrote that most of the followers of any religion are following this religion by chance not by choice but this is also a FACT that
Islam is having the largest number of people who are following Islam by CHOICE not by CHANCE.
letsdoit,
i agree with u ........
and interestingly i am both...
muslim by chance and msulim by choice.
as i was born in a muslim family .
my forefathers belongs to Hazrat Abu Bakar Saddiq.(Razi Allah tala Anhu)
but as i read quran as well as the translation of it .
i found islam the most peaceful religion .
the most modern and flexible religion.
it is not as rigid as it has been projected by mullahas.
so now i m a muslim by choice too ...
i think its a best code of conduct ,one can follow.
skyfacts
Blocked
Beenai
WITHOUT ayats about jihad and qital,rest of the QURAN is very much peacefull.
but it comes to force you for jihad,than it is not acceptable to the modren ones.
@skyfacts sahib,
Quran is a holy book ...u just cant change things or text from this book or alter it according to your likes n dislikes.
that's why the previous holy books were declared void.
coz due to too much of alterations in the quest of fitting them into modern age requirements ,they have lost their originality .
as far as jihad is concerned .
tell me one thing
there is no concept of jihad in other religions ....?
than why
world war 1 and 2 were fought?
why the weapon industry is the biggest industry of the world?
why nations fight with each other?
why nations feel a necessity to have fully armed forces?
any answer ....
no answer ?
ok
let me tell u
i m not defending jihad ......
but JANG (WAR)is inevitable in human history.
Beenai
Good to know about that. At least the educated people should not follow something blindly.
skyfacts:
if you read verses out of context then perhaps these verses are not for peace loving people but if you read them in context you will come to know that no religion is as peaceful as islam which even gives you a complete code of conduct during war time.
IJay
member
Letsdoit
Islam is having the largest number of people who are following Islam by CHOICE not by CHANCE.
No you are wrong many muslims are following because their parents are muslim!
IJay
member
HAR LAHZA HAI MOMIN KI NAI SHAAN NAI AAN
GUFTAAR MAIN, KIRDAAR MAIN ALLAH KI BURHAN
QAHAARI, O GHAFFAARI, O QUDDOOSI O JABAROOT
YE CHAAR ANAASIR HON TO BANTA HAI MUSALMAAN
YE RAAZ KISI KO MALOOM NAHEEN KE MOMIN
QARI NAZAR AATA HAI, HAQEEQAT MEIN HAI QURAN
JIS SE JIGAR E LALA MEIN THANDAK HO, WO SHABNAM
DARYAOON KE DIL JIS SE DAHIL JAA EIN WO TOOFAAN
IJay
member
for letsdoit its like !
HAR LAHZA HAI MOMIN KI NAI SHAAN NAI AAN
GUFTAAR MAIN, KIRDAAR MAIN ALLAH KI BURHAN
GHAFFAARI, O QUDDOOSI
YE 2 ANAASIR HON TO BANTA HAI MUSALMAAN
meetha meetha ISLAM jo khud ko acha lagay!
IJAY
please read once again perhaps your brain cells will start working and understanding what i have written.
The first thing was that i admitted Islam is also having blind followers who are by chance not by choice
The second thing was i compared Islam with other religions and then i made this statement that in comparison with any other religion, any other ideology Islam has more percentage of its followers who are in Islam by choice not by chance.
I hope you have understood what i wanted to convey. If not ask your elders/teachers/big brothers to read these messages and explain them to you.
skyfacts
Blocked
beenai,
there is no concept of jihad in other religions ....?
Answer is below,
The armed industry is, for the sake of ,to get resources of the weak countries,and than live happy life.
but muslim history never has such proof of a jihad for material things,but to spread KALMA.
well there is a big difference between jihad and the wars being fought earlier ww 1 and 2.
jihad(QITAL) is of two types.
>if someone attacks a muslim country(jihad get farz on residents,women also).
Now the country where muslims are doing jihad if it fears they will lose it,than muslims living in the niebours got jihad farz,the area will be contineu to expand ,to farz jihad, unless and untill the actual country needs more and more resources for jihad.(this is a safe guard not to lose the war.)
>the second type of jihad is called attacking jihad.
to attack another country(non-muslim)just to expand ISLAM.
The rule is ,attack that country,than give them three options,
1.be muslim
2.give JAZYA (tax)
3.or be prepared for a fight .
this jihad have some rules also,
the most important rule is if you have enough power to capture that country.
JIHAD IS NOT ALLOWED TO JUST have ,others resources or any other material interest but just to uplift ISLAM only.
skyfacts ,
so do u think that US Taliban are persuading a JIHAD ?
or Pakistani muslims are trying to make muslims out of their brothers who are already msulims?
skyfacts
Blocked
LetsDoIt
you have your views in good presentations but lacks any basis from quran and hadees or sunnah.just be logical with out any reproduction of your thinkings,just insist without proof is practice on this forum.
i dont know why ppl insists thier own thinkings only.....
why not from QURAN AND HADEES.ITS A MYSTRY FROM ME.
skyfacts
Blocked
Beenai
I HAVE SOME INFORMATION TO SHARE YET.........
half of the information will lead you some where else...
pls just wait a little.before give any opinion....
skyfacts
Blocked
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors." Qur'an, Chapter 2, verse 190.
This relates to the use of physical force in defense of Muslims against oppression and transgression by the enemies of Allah, Islam and Muslims. Allah commands that Muslims lead peaceful lives and not transgress against anyone. If they are persecuted and oppressed, the Qur'an recommends that they migrate to a more peaceful and tolerant land: "Lo! Those who believe, and those who emigrate (to escape persecution) and strive (Jahadu) in the way of Allah, these have hope of Allah's mercy..." (Quran, 2:218). If relocation is not possible, then Allah also requires Muslims to defend themselves against oppression by "fighting against those who fight against us." 2 The Qur'an states: "To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to defend themselves], because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory." (22:39).
The defensive nature of physical jihad (or "jihad with the hand") is frequently lost among many, Muslims, Christians, secularists .
skyfacts
Blocked
Beenai
what do you think that US AND TALIBAN are same coin with different faces.??
A discussion forum would not stay in business if it is confined and limited to one way traffic or a single band radio.
One should not attempt to make it look only like Lal Masjid.
The forum could help to motivate, promote, filter and cultivate knowledge and wisdom if Secularism, Theocracy, Democracy, Dictatorship, Capitalism, Socialism, Fascism, Mulla-ism, and all the players in the pavilion are given equal chance to play.
IJay
member
i support your approach!
IJay
member
We are not here to convince each other we are here to discuss there is a big difference between two words!
Convince:
To bring by the use of argument or evidence to firm belief or a course of action
Discuss:
To speak with another or others about; talk over.
I hope everybody follow this golden rule in future
skyfacts
Blocked
@TO ALL
BASELESS STORIES ABOUT ISLAM IS INTOLERENT ATTITUDE AGAINST THOSE HAVING BASIS FOR THIER BELIFS.
Religion should not be discussed without any proofs from QURAN, HADEES, and SUNNAT OR SUHABA ACT.
We should avoid baseless stories abt religion.
ISLAM is not into that, to be discussed and just give your viewpoints blindly.
When we have basis and constitution for it, why not refer to that constitution first and than having basis, logics, proofs, discuss it with others.
skyfacts
Please mention where you want proofs, i will Inshallah quote the exact location of hadith, or verse if i have mentioned one.
skyfacts
Blocked
LetsDoIt
well i have some fishes in the net ,with baseless stories on the name of ISLAM,just for fun or may be some other cause.
we never exchanged our views yet i think.
i was talikng abt the casual attitude towards islam.
i will need if come across any discuss.
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