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Can a Lady become Khalifah ?

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Red-Scorpion
Blocked

Ammi Aisha led a lashkar against Hazarat Ali in 'Battle of Camel', she was also very knowledgeable lady. She lived with Prophet of Islam for around nine years. She got married at the tender age of 09 and she was only 18 when the Prophet of Islam died.
In modern times we have seen many women politicians even in Muslim countries like BB, Khalida Zia, Haseena Wajid etc.
Please discuss why a woman can't become Khalifah !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bassorah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:14 #
NNL
member

In the same event that you have quoted it was decided that

"But Aisha, seeking to cease the strife, gave shura (Mutual Consultations) statement that neither Talha nor Zubayr should lead the prayer, and Zubayr's son Abdullah Ibn Zubair should lead the prayers instead. And so it was later given out that the choice of the future Caliph, in case of victory of the Meccan troops, should be left to the men of Medina."

Thus it can be said that Aisha didnt even think about leading the Khilafa

So the precedent was set wasnt it ?

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:35 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

That's my question exactly, if women are able to govern modern state and even led a lashkar in batllefield then why women are not allowed to become Khalifah ?

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:37 #
chechen
Member

Dr. Zakir Naik response to the same question.

The leadership of women is prohibited by Islam. The basis for this assertion is the Hadith "the Holy Prophet SAS has in a hadith emphatically stated that any society which has its leadership under a woman will never progress".

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:46 #
NNL
member

So why didnt Aisha Radhi Allah Wa Taala Unhu object to this decision she knew that it wasnt allowed therefore she didnt object. Cos she knew that her aql is not better than that of Rasool Allah Sallaho Alahi Wasallam and therefore didnt question it.

So who are the rest of the Muslims and the world to question Allah's Messenger aql ?

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:47 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

""the Holy Prophet SAS has in a hadith emphatically stated that any society which has its leadership under a woman will never progress""

>>>

So Ammi Aisha, went against Holy Prophet's instructions during Battle of Camel !

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:50 #
Revivalist
member

RS,

For the believers the issue is very clear, but for unbeliever it is an issue. FYI we as Muslims have submitter our will to our creator on the rational bases;
1-We believe in the existence of the creator Allah (swt).2-We believe that Quran is the Book revealed by Allah (swt) through his Messenger Muhammad (saw), 3-which proves that Muhammad (saw) is the messenger of Allah (swt).

Now to make it simple for you, if you have any problem with the issues please first prove that the deity that commanded this is not worthy of giving commands, we can then proceed......As I have proved that the commands coming from secular source is self contradictory and is erroneous fundamentally…. Understand!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:01 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Revivalist

Suppose I'm a non-muslim lady and am interested in knowing Islam, now tell me how will you justify me that women can't become Khalifah ?

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:03 #
chechen
Member

So Ammi Aisha, went against Holy Prophet's instructions during Battle of Camel !

Common RS, It was already said that it was ONE local battle and you are trying to thrust the role of Khalifa on her. You are not trying to debate but malign great Islamic personalities and question their wisdom. pathetic loser!

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:03 #
chechen
Member

Suppose I'm a non-muslim lady and am interested in knowing Islam, now tell me how will you justify me that women can't become Khalifah ?

I sam sure she will agree to Dr. Zakir Naik. I remember when I said to one American woman about WOman not able to drive in Saudi Arabia. As expected we thought that she will come right at discimination against woman, woman's right blah blah. What she said surprised the hardcore believers too.

Her response was: What a wonderful idea. I can sit back and relax and let someone chaffeur me. I would love to be in that country.

RS, Your non muslim lady will answer similarly saying I would love to sit and relax and let someone else drive the Caliphate.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:09 #
NNL
member

TO a Non Muslim Lady

Take it as a mercy from Allah Subhanu Wa Taala that a lady is kept away from the burdens and perils of leading a Khilafa as there are a lot problems will arise from it for her.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:09 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

"""RS, Your non muslim lady will answer similarly saying I would love to sit and relax and let someone else drive the Caliphate. """

>>>

Wrong, my non-muslim lady wants to be Khalifah :)))

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:11 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

"""Take it as a mercy from Allah Subhanu Wa Taala that a lady is kept away from the burdens and perils of leading a Khilafa as there are a lot problems will arise from it for her. """

>>>>

Don't worry about that lady as she is very strong and wants to be Khalifah !

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:12 #
NNL
member

She wont be able to save herself from slander and bhutan and plus she will be forced to meet a lot of men publicly and privately thus making a lot of things complicated.

Thus its a mercy given to her.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:14 #
NNL
member

You see RS your Non Muslim Lady will first have to accept Islam and to do that she will have to submit to the Will of Allah Subhanhu Wa Taala then why does she wish to rebel against the same Will to which she claims to be submitting ?

Aint that Hypocrisy.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:16 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

"""She wont be able to save herself from slander and bhutan and plus she will be forced to meet a lot of men publicly and privately thus making a lot of things complicated.

Thus its a mercy given to her. """

>>>

She doesn't want any mercy, she wants equality !
And above all she wants to become Khalifah !

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:19 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

"""You see RS your Non Muslim Lady will first have to accept Islam and to do that she will have to submit to the Will of Allah Subhanhu Wa Taala then why does she wish to rebel against the same Will to which she claims to be submitting ?

Aint that Hypocrisy. """

>>>

She's not going to accept Islam if she's not satisfied with women's rights in Islam !
How can she accept Islam when she's not allowed to become Khalifah on the basis of her gender ???

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:21 #
NNL
member

Nope

She gets the Justice not Equality.

Equality doesnt ensure Justice.

Justice however ensures Equality.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:22 #
Revivalist
member

RS,

I hope the women who would ask the question would be sincere to know the answer and will accept it if proved to her with reasons, unlike you guys who behaves like deaf, dumb and blind....

Before answering the question I would ask her weather she believe in the creator, is she say yes I will proceed, if she say no I will first clarify to her this point. After getting away with this I will then ask her weather she believes in Quran to be the words of God, and will do the same. Third thing I will ask her is that weather she believes Muhammad (saw) is the last and final messenger of Allah (swt), if she say yes, I will proceed, if she say no I will prove to her this point. Once I do all this then I will tell her that your creator has designed specific role for both you and me, being a Muslim we must obey him and must not challenge his wisdom with our limited mind. Now the reasonable question which she will ask after clarifying all these points to her will be that where does Allah (swt) or his messenger (saw) said that a women can not become the caliph and I will quote to her he Hadith regarding this matter and she will accept this and will obey his creator and his messenger (saw) to be successful both in this world and in the hereafter.... UNDERSTAND!!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:23 #
NNL
member

So she is going to deny all the rights given to her by Islam?

Hmm well she is better off without Islam cos If she cant submit to the Will of Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala then she cant be a Muslim so she can forget the Khilafa.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:24 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

""Nope

She gets the Justice not Equality.

Equality doesnt ensure Justice.

Justice however ensures Equality. ""

>>>

She wants equal rights and she's not going to accept Islam if she's not going to get equal rights !

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:29 #
NNL
member

She will wont get equal rights in the same secular country or religion she is now following and living ?

So how is she saying that.

However she does get absolute Justice.

But you are again going into circular arguments.

If she wants to Submit to the Will of Allah what she wants becomes a mute point

Its a simple concept.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:35 #
khurram Zaman
Member

RS,
Actually you just imagine some thing and start discussing ur idea..
your purpose of discussion is always to leave a person without any logic and you choose a thread specially for that topic..
As you know this is never desireable to discuss like this..
Taling the current issue of Khilafa when a women is getting femiliar with Islam than Islam present a whole domain for any women in Islam..
this is the area woman will have to remain in..
Islam has a role which is separate and respectable for women and every women shud have to play within that role..
If accept it or not woman has less capacity ,physically and mentally..
Every woman knows it that i am prepared with such a special body structure to be able a man to feela difference between a man and women.So according to woman structure she is having a total different field to play.
You are not a woman therefore questioning like a man relating to woman.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:38 #
NNL
member

I know JJ bhai

I am waiting for him to come up with the very issue.

Lol

He plays circular arguments just like people before him have done and Allah has given them the answers whether they like it or not those answers have been proved to be True.

Its all about them to snap out of their fantasy world and accept the truth.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:38 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

""She will wont get equal rights in the same secular country or religion she is now following and living ? ""

>>>>

Ask a lady living in any secular society if she really wants to live under Taliban, or in Saudi Arabia or Iran then you'll get the answer, dude !
Many educated muslim ladies even don't want to even think about living under harst Shariah laws !

""If she wants to Submit to the Will of Allah what she wants becomes a mute point
Its a simple concept. ""

>>>

That non-muslim lady can't accept anything without questioning it !
How can she submit to the will of your Allah if she's not satisfied with the rights she's gonna have after accepting Islam !
She still insists on to become Khalifah !

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:08 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

"""He is coming up with Shia links to prove his points. And those links Abuse Aisha (ra) """

>>>>

'Shia Links' ---- How many Shia links i've given ?
That link just came during Google search and has nothing to do with abusing Ammi Aisha !
Show me where did I accuse Ammi Aisha ?

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:11 #
khurram Zaman
Member

Iblees( he called himself above) even dont have the correct idea of that war between hazrat Aisha and Hazrat Ali.and he draw the conclusion of being head of the state,using his own created situation..
He may also draw conclusion from muslim ladies war participation as to become head of Army the muslim woman....

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:16 #
NNL
member

Again by flapping your arms you wont get to the right argument

Your Second link is a Shia link which does that.
So prove to me where i have said that you are abusing ?

The moderator seems to be on a power trip cant help it

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:17 #
NNL
member

She doesnt have to submit if she doesnt like it

Its a take it or leave it deal

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:18 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@NNL

""She doesnt have to submit if she doesnt like it
Its a take it or leave it deal ""

>>

So that lady's gonna say Bye Bye to your Islam from a safe distance !

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:22 #
Revivalist
member

RS and co,

" the deaf the dumb the blind and they will never repent"...
Though no one here is referring to Saudi, Iran or Taliban etc and purely discussing Islam and its Ahkams, however do you know of Avon Ridly, currently hosting a current affairs program on press TV by the name of 'The Agenda' and what happened to her???? Besides do you know about the raising number of women excepting Islam in the secular west? Why has your secularism start contradicting it self by banning Hijab, which I GUESS is a personal matter and comes under “PERSONAL FREEDOM”??? Do you know of Marwa Al-shibrini???

The way a Muslimah doesn’t challenge other Ahkams of Islam on the bases of false gendersim, similarly she has no problem in accepting this rule of Islam as well because she is clear about the source, which is Islam. Besides ca you give us any example from the entire history of Islam where a female disputed this rule or where there is any disagreement amongst the classical scholars of Islam???? If not then please stop your rant and say something sensible, I am sure if you keep on trying you can do it!!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:23 #
NNL
member

I will be glad for she is only coming in to be a Khalifa isnt she

So Good riddance to bad rubbish i say.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:23 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Revivalist

Even Muslim women living in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are demanding more rights !
Now women of muslim countries are getting right to vote and drive !
We expect with the passage of time women in muslim societies will be demanding equal rights as they are demanding in Pakistan now !

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:42 #
NNL
member

out of curiousity can you provide the links where these women are asking for more rights and what rights are they refering to.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 7:44 #
zjshami
Member

These are the Issues which need to be settled by the Muslim Scholars through Ijtehad.
The future generation would keep on going away from practicing Islam if such confusing and disturbing question are not answered and settled through a common sense wisdom.
What is the wisdom to keep Muslim women just like livestock?
I am sure that Allah and His Rasool (PBHU) won't be annoyed or offended if the woman of 21 Century is allowed to participate in all of the social, political, culture activities for what she deserves and qualifies.
Mullah should not hesitate to revise his arrogant attitude.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 13:12 #
amin1924
member

Only job that hadith specifically states woman can't have is that of Caliph, so what is problem here?

Ijtehad isn't there to transform Islam according to capitalist value system or communist value system.

Women are allowed all sorts of jobs such as:

Women are allowed to own/run business
women are allowed to work
women are allowed to be judge
women are allowed to be teacher
women are allowed to administer

So what is the issue? Should we reject hadith to please West? Why do we have to measure Islamic rulings through capitalist or communist yard stick?

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:04 #
shahzad1924
member

"Even Muslim women living in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are demanding more rights !"

so? who said SA and Kuwait are khilafahs?

"Now women of muslim countries are getting right to vote and drive !
We expect with the passage of time women in muslim societies will be demanding equal rights as they are demanding in Pakistan now !"

FYI, two women were part of the delegation that gave bayah to Muhammad (PBUH) for establishing the first Islamic state in Medina. Islam gave women to vote even before the west had heard about voting!

and please don't come to us and talk about women's rights. the west, your mai baap, they use women to sell cigarettes. you, with your outdated ideology of liberalism have no moral right to tell us Muslims about women's rights.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:07 #
zjshami
Member

Islam won't collapse where a woman gets a breakthrough to contest for Khalifa.
Even Mualana Moudoodi endorsed the legitimacy of Woman's leadership by supporting Mohtarma Fatimah Jinnah against Ayub Khan.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:23 #
shahzad1924
member

yes and the world will not fall apart if the woman is NOT given the right to contest for the post of the khaleefah.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:33 #
NNL
member

Why do Ijjtehad for something which is clearly mentioned.

Is it your utter ignorance that you dont know when Ijjtehad is done

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:44 #
NNL
member

would you be willing to accept everything else by Moulana Moudoodi

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:46 #
zjshami
Member

But 50% population would get annoyed, agitated and might revolt against the Tyranny and Cruelty and domination of males.
That's what has happened.
By keeping society submissive through force, almost 80-90 % of the Muslim Population has turned non-practicing.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:50 #
amin1924
member

But who is talking about keeping society submissive through force? Perhaps your imagination or prejudice towards Islam?

Why would 50% percept population be annoyed, agitated or revolt because Prophet Muhammad forbade female on the post of Caliph?

All believers adhere to Qur'an & Sunnah.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:52 #
shahzad1924
member

so, you are suggesting that the countries where women are leaders of the state, those countries do not have male dominance? really? really?

"By keeping society submissive through force, almost 80-90 % of the Muslim Population has turned non-practicing."

what are you talking about? there is no Islamic state today. there is no correlation of this comment with the discussion.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:54 #
zia m
Member

"Even Mualana Moudoodi endorsed the legitimacy of Woman's leadership by supporting Mohtarma Fatimah Jinnah against Ayub Khan."

It is true.Maudoodi was the greatest Islamic scholar of the last century from the subcontinent.
He also wrote a book on how the Caliphate turned into monarchy starting during the rule of Caliph Usman.
We just have to come up with a better name for female Khalifa.Khalifi does not sound too good.
Any ideas?

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 15:09 #
shahzad1924
member

"Any ideas?"

yes, you are wrong!

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 15:10 #
chechen
Member

If the greatest scholar of the last century and all the centuries goes against the clear Hadith of the Prophet SAS, then he is wrong. He definitely made a mistake.

The leadership of women is prohibited by Islam. The basis for this assertion is "the Holy Prophet SAS has in a hadith emphatically stated that any society which has its leadership under a woman will never progress".

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 15:17 #
shahzad1924
member

and this topic has been discussed before. and i remember quoting the hadith with its matan and sanad.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 15:22 #
misalligned
Member

Can some lady beat the 100 m race record set by a man?

Can some lady beat 40 km cycling record set by a man?

Can a lady beat high jump record set by a man?

Can some man give birth to a child?

There are few things which are not physically possible and running behind only those points will give you nothing.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 22:06 #
chechen
Member

Khilafa or head of a state is long way to go.

Let us start with construction worker or a truck driver. Although the entire Western world is a good example but let us take the example of Russia/Soviet. The emancipation of women reached such proportions that they started using women as truck drivers, laborers. It was also due to the after affects of World Wars in which Russia alone lost over 25 million. Rather than encouraging woman to be housewives, they started using them in all kinds of professions. The result were disastrous and Russia is one of the countries where population is decling at a unprecedented rate. They will lose close to 50 million by 2030.

This is what happens when you tamper with the anatomy of a womanand thrust on her jobs beyond her capability. This is nothing but slavery and exploitation of woman and our clowns are dying to have the woman lead them. Pathetic!

One very important observation about mother Russia is that the populations in Muslim Central Asia and Caucasus did not decline due to such "emancipation". One reason social scientists attributed to the high growth rate inMuslim areas was due to strong family structure and religious norms that prevented teh break up of families and respect of women that Islam traditionally offers the women folks.

Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 22:28 #