PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion

Can we prove existence of God logically or empirically?,If yes then, prove !

(119 posts)
123

  1. zia m
    Member

    "The links I provided includes about 20 different lectures, average length of each being one and a half hour [i.e. about 30 hours in total]. It’s hardly been 30 hours since I have posted the links. Don’t tell me you have been listening to Gary Miller for the past 30 hours without taking any rest or sleep. "

    Well,my friend, i don't think you are quite cut out for missionary outreach yet.I was referring to the two videos in your above post dated march 21st @7:33. I never claimed that i read all the literature provided by you. Do you think listening to somebody for over 4 hours in a day is not enough. You throw out couple of links in every post, there is even a link for a book in one of your post.Should i come back to post a response in couple of months?
    Anyways only the first video was related to the topic

    Thanks for defining Nabi for me and adding to my knowledge.

    Good luck with your mission!

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Mar 2010 3:01 #

  2. shehmir
    Member

    ** Well,my friend, i don't think you are quite cut out for missionary outreach yet. Good luck with your mission **

    If by that you meant I was here to convert anyone, than for your knowledge a Muslim job is not to convert anyone [maybe you didn't hear that either].

    ** You throw out couple of links in every post, there is even a link for a book in one of your post. **

    Since you don't read/listen them [and assume things] and then ask questions that have been already answered there, I have to post them again.

    Anyways this discussion is pointless.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Mar 2010 20:33 #

  3. zia m
    Member

    ""Anyways this discussion is pointless""

    If you mean discussion on existence of God is pointless, then you are wrong.
    If you mean discussion on Gary Miller is pointless, you maybe right.

    PS:I once converted a Catholic to Islam, should i repent?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Mar 2010 20:52 #

  4. Achoota
    Member

    See if below helps.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Mar 2010 14:30 #

  5. Achoota
    Member

    Sorry above will help if you see the whole series.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Mar 2010 14:50 #

  6. shehmir
    Member

    * If you mean discussion on existence of God is pointless, then you are wrong. *

    If the discussion on existence of God was pointless, I wouldn’t have commented on this thread in the first place.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 11:20 #

  7. zia m
    Member

    Achoota,
    All i got to say about Ghamidi is that he is well intentioned but very naive.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 2:59 #

  8. Achoota
    Member

    @ Zia: do you have any problems with his arguments?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Mar 2010 14:13 #

  9. zia m
    Member

    Yes, most of his arguments are based on Jewish prophets.I have my reasons not to believe the Jews are the chosen people.Most of their kings the likes of David, who had his general killed because he loved his wife is simply a common criminal and to elevate him to prophet is a joke.

    His argument regarding the Arabs being victorious don't make any sense. Alexander conqured most of the known world during his time.Does that mean Alexander's God was the one true God.
    Ghamidi does not make any sense, he failed to convince the fellows who were questioning him in the video.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Mar 2010 23:57 #

  10. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence !!!

    http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Apr 2010 9:37 #

  11. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    Why Atheism? by Mark Thomas

    Just about everyone is an atheist when it comes to other gods — the gods that other people believe in or that nobody believes in anymore. I’m an atheist about all gods because there's no reliable evidence for any god, or even for Jesus. There is also extensive evidence that Jesus and all gods are fictional characters — myths created mainly by primitive people who had little understanding of how our universe operates. We all like myths and other stories, but we don't have to believe them.....

    http://www.godlessgeeks.com/WhyAtheism.htm

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Apr 2010 9:39 #

  12. rhyme
    Members

    @Lalbicho

    Keeping aside the Political statements,just tell me honestly do you really believe that this vast nd well balanced Universe with planets,stars,moon,sun etc moving since centuries,systematically nd artistically and also the earth being decorated with rivers,trees,mountains etc could have been created by itself or by accidently?

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Apr 2010 16:04 #

  13. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    RhyMe,

    """just tell me honestly do you really believe that this vast nd well balanced Universe with planets,stars,moon,sun etc moving since centuries,systematically nd artistically and also the earth being decorated with rivers,trees,mountains etc could have been created by itself or by accidently? """

    >>>

    You are citing Design Argument for the existence of god !
    This argument claims as there appears to be a design or purpose in Universe there must be a designer who designed the Universe !

    But don't you think the designer must have been more complex than his/her design ?
    And if a complex system such as Universe can't come into being accidently or can't create itself then HOW A MORE COMPLEX GOD CAN BE THERE FROM ETERNITY/INFINITY ?
    HOW THAT DESIGNER CAN CREAT ITSELF ?
    IF EVERY EFFECT HAS A CAUSE THAN WHAT'S THE CAUSE OF FIRST CAUSE i.e. YOUR GOD ???

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Apr 2010 7:22 #

  14. zia m
    Member

    Logically it is also wrong to claim to be an atheist because one can't prove there is no Creator.
    Agnostic is more accurate for those who don't believe in a god.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Apr 2010 15:25 #

  15. rhyme
    Members

    @LalBicho

    Its actually a matter of belief nd faith when one believes that God,who according to you is more complexed than His complexed creation,didn't need any creator because He was already there from eternity even before the creation of this vast nd diverse universe...Question is why do we have to believe that God who is The King,The Unique,The Sovereign Lord,The Creator,The Mighty,needs any creator who must have created Him?..why cant we follow the notion that God was already there without any creator? plus if we assume and believe that God was created by someone than it directly negates the faith in God being Al-Malik and Al-Khaliq which means non other than Him is in a position to create anything....so if noone except Him can be a creator than how can He be created by anyone?...Infact,if im not wrong,you might be thinking,like Handmade or Manmade gods of other religions who came into existence by someone(Humans in this case) so our God Allah swt should or must have a creator also innit?...that is the difference between Islam and other religions that we see structural or monumental example of God there because ppl in those religions believe in those gods only whom they can see,touch,bown down infront of etc etc but Islam rejects any of such idol worshiping and stresses on differentiating between a Human(creation) and God(Creator) and to believe in Him through His signs,His Devine Power,His Attributes.....Since He made this Perfect Universe so the attribute of perfection only belongs to Him...

    Secondly He surely is the best Designer,Artist,Architect like u yourself have said and we can see His creation in the form of Human beings,Planets,Nature etc...Like i said one of the ways to believe in God is throu His signs and Attributes and

    Al-Musawwir : The Fashioner

    Al-Mubdi :The Originator

    Al-Mutakabbir : The Majestic

    are some of His qualities that can be clearly seen in His creation and creativity and makes us believe in His superiority....

    Similarly when we say our God is

    Al-Mubdi :The Originator

    As-Samad :The Eternal

    Al-Muqtadir :The Powerful

    Al-Azeez: The Mighty

    Al-Azeem : The Great One

    Al-Aliyy :The Most High

    Al-Kabeer :The Most Great

    Aj-Jaleel :The Sublime One

    Al-Wasi:The Vast

    Al-Qawiyy :The Most Strong

    Than there is no reason left to say that WHAT'S THE CAUSE OF FIRST CAUSE i.e. YOUR GOD ??? because (lemme repeat the names again)The Eternal,The Powerful,The Mighty,The Great One,The Most High,The Most Great,The Sublime One,The Vast nd The Most Strong Doesnt need any maker or inventor...

    We call Him "God" then we ask who made this God,making the difference between a creator(God) and creation(Human Being) very controversial?

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 Apr 2010 13:27 #

  16. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    RhyMe,

    """Its actually a matter of belief nd faith when one believes that God,....,didn't need any creator because He was already there from eternity even before the creation of this vast nd diverse universe..."""

    >>>>

    Can we call your above comments an argument ???
    Will you accept my argument that 'Its actually a matter of my belief and faith that Go does need a creator becoz he/she
    was not there from eternity and it was Man who created God', tell me will you accept my argument or can you call what I've just said an argument ?

    ==================

    """"Question is why do we have to believe that God who is The King,The Unique,The Sovereign Lord,The Creator,The Mighty,needs any creator who must have created Him?..why cant we follow the notion that God was already there without any creator?"""

    >>>

    The question remains if Every thing has a cause then what caused God ?
    If everything was created by someone then who created God ?

    ===============

    """plus if we assume and believe that God was created by someone than it directly negates the faith in God being Al-Malik and Al-Khaliq which means non other than Him is in a position to create anything....so if noone except Him can be a creator than how can He be created by anyone?"""

    >>>

    Sir, if it's all matter of faith then why argue ???

    =================

    ""?...Infact,if im not wrong,you might be thinking,like Handmade or Manmade gods of other religions who came into existence by someone(Humans in this case) so our God Allah swt should or must have a creator also innit?..."""

    >>>

    No, we're discussing Judeo-Christian-Islamic God, who according to them created everything but no one created him ???
    My question is why should we break cause n effect chain at First Cause/God ???

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Apr 2010 13:56 #

  17. SufiSoul
    Member

    lalbichoo,
    When the scientific proof of ALLAH is taking so much time at your side that it is still in working than how much time you need to think abt the ALLAH itself..
    The problem is that you are demanding a medium to prove the ALLAH but you are still unaware of that medium..So how can you should be made clear with existance of GOD..

    Please learn the LOGIC SCIENCE first than i am here to discuss and prove the existance......

    Posted 2 years ago on 08 Apr 2010 20:10 #

  18. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    SufSoul,

    This is an open discussion forum and you are free to post any argument which is relevant to the topic i.e. "" Can we prove existence of God logically or empirically?,If yes then, prove !""

    =====================

    """Please learn the LOGIC SCIENCE first than i am here to discuss and prove the existance...... """

    >>>

    My friend why don't you open a thread and teach 'LOGIC SCIENCE' to Jahils (ignorant) like me ?
    Don't you think that would be a gr8 service ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Apr 2010 5:13 #

  19. zia m
    Member

    "Please learn the LOGIC SCIENCE first than i am here to discuss and prove the existance......

    What are you talking about?
    Are you referring to The Science of Logic a work by Hegel or logic of science dealing with probability theory?

    Logic is neither a science nor an art, but a dodge!
    It has been used and misused especially dealing with science.

    The bottom line is that logic alone can tell us nothing new about the real world. Ditto for mathematics, as Albert Einstein observed: "Insofar as mathematics is exact, it does not apply to reality; and insofar as mathematics applies to reality, it is not exact."

    Here is a good article on logic.....
    http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/logic.htm

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Apr 2010 5:22 #

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