Chief Justice and supreume court declare war on democratic government.

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Chief Justice and supreume court declare war on democratic government.

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msyedh
Member

President of pakistan have constitutional authority to appoint and elevate judges of supreume court and high courts with consultation of chief justice, so president appointed Justice Khawaja Sharif to supreume court and justice Nasar to chief justice of Lahore high court.
In response supreume court again reacted extraordinary hurry and unconstitutional way to challenge democratic government and suspend these appointments in minutes.
president and democratic government is elected from peoples of pakistan and they have final authority to appoint these judges, judges and chief justice are hand picked and they can not have final authority. they can be only consulted to have professional advice.
but this supreume court is ridding on the shoulders of Noon league and challenging again and again this government to destablize this system to reward Noon league for their past restoration help for judges and bring them in power, this situation is too serious for whole system and future of pakistan. GOD BLESS PAKISTAN

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Feb 2010 22:26 #
junaid
Member

actually it is zardaris decision that is unconstitutional. the frame work should be on the basis of seniority rather than self proclaimed false notifications. down with wadaira culture.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Feb 2010 22:38 #
msyedh
Member

well, Justice khawaja is most senior Judge in Lahore high court, he must elevate to supreum court, president elevate him to supreume court because of seniority, and second most senior judge Nasar is appointed as chief justice of Lahore high court, but cheif justice want to keep Khawaja in punjab to favor Noon league. woh noon league ko favor daina chatay hain, woh league ka purana banda ha, takeh woh noon league ko help kar sakay.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Feb 2010 22:49 #
NNL
member

No

Its not the job of the President do decide.

ITs the job of the CJP to decide who to promote.

CJP is elected by the President.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 0:26 #
msyedh
Member

NNL
My friend read article 177 which very clearly say that president will appoint all judges with consultation of cheif justice, chief justice , sadar ko seraf mashwara dey dakta ha.
177. Appointment of Supreme Court Judges.
(1) The Chief Justice of Pakistan shall be appointed by the President, and each of the other Judges shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Chief Justice.
(2) A person shall not be appointed a Judge of the Supreme Court unless he is a citizen of Pakistan and-

(a) has for a period of, or for periods aggregating, not less than five years been a judge of a High Court (including a High Court which existed in Pakistan at any time before the commencing day); or

(b) has for a period of, or for periods aggregating not less than fifteen years been an advocate of a High Court (including a High Court which existed in Pakistan at any time before the commencing day).

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 1:32 #
bft1
Member

@msyedhs first of all lol
Its not as simple as uve writen, if that were the case then anyone cud read the constitution n go argue a case in the SC. The word consultation means (according to judicial precedent n rules of interpretation) that the president is bound by the cj's recomendations
For argument sake lets acept ur point of view....thats exactly wat the 3 member bench held...that the appointment was contrary to the const coz the pres 'did not consult the cj' if the pres did he must provide doc evidence. This is jus an interim order n there will be a full hearing wit the govt getting full opp to defend

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 4:58 #
drcardio1980
Member

We have no trust in corrupt polticians like Zardaries & Sharifs so we should go alongwith decisions of some credible people we have in judicary.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 5:24 #
toamin
member

what would zardari achieve from this move?

may be a diversion of attention & focus from NRO to judicial crisis?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 6:26 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

The CJ sent his recommendations to the President of Pakistan. President of Pakistan rejected it. Gave his own recommendations without consulting the CJ, which is unconstitutional.

Anyways, the persons who Mr. Zardari wanted to promote, both of them have already cited that they support CJ in this instance.

So there's no need to spread confusion in this regard.

The only thing that remains to be seen, is who is getting what out of this ?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 7:50 #
kash01
Member

It is unfortunate that even decades after independence we have failed to evolve a set procedure for the appointments of judges and on every new appointments a controversy arises between the judiciary and the executive.Pakistan is already faced with grave problems at the moment and the country cannot afford a new crises now so it is of utmost importance that the question of appointments of judges be settled once and all in a constitutional manner.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 8:33 #
bft1
Member

@ salam
This is connected with the dalaying of appointment of judges in the lahore hc by the governer. The motive behind this move was to get rid of khwaja sharif so that pressure cud be applied on the new cj to alter the list prepared by khwaja n include some jiyala judges who were dismissed by the order in the emergency case.it cudnt be anythin else coz khwaja will hace to be elevated to the sc in a few months since there is another retirement comig up so the only reason that zardari refused to let khawaja be in charge for even a coupla months is the judges list wich they have already delayed.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 8:48 #
toamin
member

no dear bft1, i don't think that zardari tried to do that. i think zardari knew very well that the notification was ultra-constitutional and judiciary would react to it.

zardari wanted this to happen, to get the judiciary react to his move, to provoke the judiciary, to confront the judiciary and then through political means malign judiciary because they are becoming a real pain and headache for him

there is no cost for zardari to pay, he made a notification which got canceled, no harm, no damage, but you see how all the media, peoples, and politicians got busy with this issue?

a controlled little judicial crisis to keep people occupied and defocused from some other important developments

army key generals are expecting extensions to their service because US/NATO desperately needs services of these traitors, so for now army is kind of under zardari's feet, pml-n also under the feet, and americans enjoying the whole drama :)

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 9:11 #
d0ct0r
Member

It was obviously an attempt by govt to divide the Judicial system(Supreme court/High court) and make it controversial. That attempt was preempted by Supreme court and both the judges involved(Justice khawaja and Justice Nisar) have wisely reposed confidence in CJ .

Governor Punjab too is sitting on the recommendations for appointing judges to high court. After the restoration of judiciary which PP govt never had thought would be restored(and never accepted it in their hearts), it wants to make judiciary controversial and induct 'yes man' judges like Dogar.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 9:54 #
bft1
Member

@ salam
No repurcussions? Controlled crisis? Acting ultra vires has major repurcussions, wat do u think article 6 is all about? Divert attention?! Isn't that all about diverting attention to 'other' issues, he's jus worsened his own position by diverting attention as u to say to another act of his which goes to show his inability to act like a constitutional president

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 10:02 #
bft1
Member

This is just like killing a person to divert attention frm theft

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 10:11 #
toamin
member

yes, president took a controlled panggaa, tell me what could happen to the president because of this notification?

president can not be prosecuted because of issuing this notice, at most this notice will get cancelled as already happened.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 10:13 #
bft1
Member

well breaking news....he just lost control

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 12:01 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@kash01: A lot! of work remains in the details of writing the constitution.

A lot of old laws need to be stripped out. ALL! the old laws, the British laws, need to be thrown out! of OUR! constitution. We! are Muslims!.

A lot of new laws need to be put in, from Islam.

The problem is, those who are entrusted with this job are rather busy in their luxuries, enjoying their lives on the people's tax money, embezzling state resources, assets, land, rather than serving the people.

What else would happen to the masses in such a situation ?

Don't you see how healthy our rulers are, yet most of the people who they are ruling over, are in the most dire of conditions ?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 12:23 #
msyedh1
Member

Khawaja Sharif proven that he is more political worker of Noon league than Chief justice of Lahore high court, look high court decisions to stop elections last 12 months in NA 55 and Na 123 on the order of Nawaz sharif, till Nawaz sharif and Shabaz sharif give permission for that. And there are many other acts and decisions he is showing that. But chief justice ch. Iftikhar insisting to keep him in Lahore high court to give favor to Noon leage leadership, as reward for their passed help.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 19:17 #
msyedh1
Member

Nobody need to appoint any jayala judges but they can not filled all judiciary with anti ppp judges as revenge from zardari and ppp democratic government.
why they should not wait for constituational amendment for appointemnt of these judges, they will have any indpendent selection commission or any parliamani committee to select these judges, but chief justice Iftikhar and Noon league is in too hurry to fill all these 92 or more judges with anti ppp peoples and accupy this whole judicial system against ppp for comming many years.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 19:27 #
Anonymous

Msyedh

President gained nothing other than embarrassment after his unwise action as his orders were not only rejected by the concerned judges but his orders were also suspended by the court.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 19:27 #
msyedh1
Member

forget about deversion of attention, we are talking here about rule of law, if judiciary is targeting ppp democratic government on the name of rule of law, why they do not want to apply rule of law for all pco judges for their passed unconstitutional actions and decisions, facing article 6 and also rule of law against self confessed,convicted Nawaz sharif and others. but they will never apply there because they are working only one agenda to forced ppp democratic government to resign and then bring Noon league in power.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 19:37 #
Anonymous

And what about the huge money in foreign banks? And what about the breaking of written agreements and promises to the ordinary people of Pakistan?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 20:05 #
Anwer Kamal
Member

See this news
But listen actually what happened,
Gov't issued a notification, SC suspended.
Matter will be heard on his date.
What these people and N$ doing?
Who gave them right to speak on behalf of these courts.
GEO Pakistan
Lawyers to observe nationwide strike on Monday
Updated at: 1717 PST, Sunday, February 14, 2010
Lawyers to observe nationwide strike on MondayRAWALPINDI: The lawyers’ National Coordination Council has announced to stage countrywide strike and complete boycott of the courts’ proceeding on Monday.

This was announced by Qazi Anwar, the President of the Supreme Court Bar Association, at a press conference in Rawalpindi on Sunday.

He said the lawyers’ community will observe a solidarity day on February 18 while a convention will be held at Shahra-e-Dastoor on March 8.

Anwar demanded that only honest judges should be appointed judges of the Supreme Court.

The SCBA President said: “National Coordination Council has decided to observe nation-wide strike and boycott of courts’ preceding on Monday.”

“We will not back down from our movement, he said, adding there is no issue leadership among lawyers.”
Read again
"Anwar demanded that only honest judges should be appointed judges of the Supreme Court."
So he means that Khawaja Sharif is not honest so he can not be a judge of SC.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 21:26 #
gujjartalwar
Member

"So he means that Khawaja Sharif is not honest so he can not be a judge of SC."

That's splitting the hair! You can argue back and forth, but the bottomline here is that executive wants judiaciary to take their dictates and stop being a hurdle in their excesses. Three leading figures in pushing current appointments--Zardari, Babar Awan and Latif Khosa, are in the docket, for one thing or another, and they are really mad. Judiciary is holding its line valiantly. Anyone who supports them is commendable.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 22:26 #
Anwer Kamal
Member

Read this
LAWYERS’ MEETING

The elevations also came in the backdrop of another development of calling the meeting of the National Coordination Council (NCC) by the President of Supreme Court Bar Association (SCBA) Qazi Mohammad Anwar on Sunday.

The rapidly unfolding events throughout Saturday evening also created despondency, with former SCBA president Ali Ahmed Kurd, the engine behind the two years long lawyers movement. Kurd expressed disappointment over the events and deplored that it appeared as Justice Khawaja had become the most important individual in the country. “We the people of the Pakistan want to see constitution, democracy, parliament as well as the judiciary flourished in the country,” he said adding the seniority principle settled in the 1996 Al-Jihad Trust should be honoured at all cost.

Eminent constitutional expert Fakhruddin G Ibrahim was also of the view that it would always be good that senior judge must come to the Supreme Court asking what was wrong if the senior judge was elevated. “Do not leave such matters on discretion but always respect the seniority principle,” he said.

Advocate Athar Minallah, who acted as the spokesperson of the chief justice during the two years long lawyers struggle also expressed his frustration and said that the development was infact a gift to the non democratic forces and to those who were sitting on the fence and would like to see confrontation between state institutions that could only cause irreparable loss to the country. Time has come when the members of the parliament, he said, must immediately act to ensure that no confrontation should take place and that the constitution should prevail. The country would be back to 100 years and the entire two years long lawyers struggle for the rule of law would go down the drain in case the non-democratic forces succeed, he feared.

President of Supreme Court Bar Association, Qazi Anwar, was of the view that show of strength at this juncture would be very dangerous and it seems that the president was bent upon pitting against the judiciary. The notification is contrary to the recommendations of the chief justice, he said. Earlier on January 23, the president had also turned down chief justice’s recommendation to elevate Justice Nisar in the Supreme Court.

Keeping in view the lego-constitutional position, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gillani has advised President of Pakistan Asif Ali Zardari to request Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry to reconsider his recommendation of December 19, 2009 and had advised the president that in view of the legal position and the guidelines laid down in the Al Jehad Trust case PLD 1996 SC 324, primacy should always be given to the senior most judges in matters relating to elevation of high court judge in the Supreme Court unless found to be unsuitable by the Chief Justice of Pakistan for such elevation.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/...l-fraterni-420

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Feb 2010 23:32 #
msyedh
Member

gujjartalwar
zardari, babar and latif khosa are political personalities, it is difference between judge and political leader, for judge he must be neutral and honest for all pakistanies, because judges are going to decide many issues between parties and other institutions on all matters, they must be honest and neutral for this post, but for political leaders they always belong to one party and if their is any allegation against them they can be prosecuted in courts, judiciary is independent now. And till they are convicted like Nawaz sharif they are innocent. Nawaz Sharif was convicted in courts in many cases but latter he made 10 year deal with Murshraf and saudi government , all punishments were set aside and he left pakistan with his all family and 42 suitcases filled with dollors and gold.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 2:36 #
toamin
member

well, why not ppp jeeyalaa make cases against pml-n like mushy/plm-q did?

zardari is scared because of NRO, he may lose his precious looted wealth

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 3:11 #
gujjartalwar
Member

@msyedh

I did not say that any of Zaradari, Babar, or Khosa were guilty. I just said they are mad to be brought into question.

I have no problem with Sharifs being brought before courts although the case you are refering to will hardly qualify. At the time, Nawaz Sharif was a prisoner and was trying to save his hide. He could hardly have gathered any Gold or Dollars under the boots of Musharraf. And 42 suitcases is not a whole lot for so many family members leaving in exile.

All I am saying is let the system work. My impression is that with unfortunate elimination of Bhuttos, PPP is rudderless. It is fast squandring its political capital.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 3:15 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

Is there any ambiguity ???

QUOTE

177. Appointment of Supreme Court Judges.
(1) The Chief Justice of Pakistan shall be appointed by the President, and each of the other Judges shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Chief Justice.
(2) A person shall not be appointed a Judge of the Supreme Court unless he is a citizen of Pakistan and-

(a) has for a period of, or for periods aggregating, not less than five years been a judge of a High Court (including a High Court which existed in Pakistan at any time before the commencing day); or

(b) has for a period of, or for periods aggregating not less than fifteen years been an advocate of a High Court (including a High Court which existed in Pakistan at any time before the commencing day).

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part7.ch2.html

UNQUOTE

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:15 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

I think it's the term 'Consultation' which is causing confusion !

"""consult

• verb 1 seek information or advice from. 2 seek permission or approval from. 3 (consulting) engaged in the business of giving advice to others in the same field.

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/consult?view=uk """

>>>>

First meaning may support govt's stand while second meaning may support CJ !!!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:26 #
Beenai
Moderator

i disagree that Supreme Court has declared this war.
its Govt which has been hostile to the present set up of judiciary from day one .

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:31 #
toamin
member

hahahah... constitution is being interpreted thru 'oxford dictionary' !!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:31 #
javedsheikh
Members

After 40 years, once again People of Pakistan would watch a
Political War.

Bhutto Vs. 9 Stars + Judiciary

This time the outcome would be totally reverse.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:40 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

LOLzzzz

I don't think entries in Oxford Dictionary are made by Zardari :))

Salam, BTW what's your take on Article 177, remember SC's job is to interpret the constitution !

177. Appointment of Supreme Court Judges.
(1) The Chief Justice of Pakistan shall be appointed by the President, and each of the other Judges shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Chief Justice.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:41 #
toamin
member

ulema of the constitution of pakistan have already interpreted this in al-jihad trust case, remember only an alim-e-dastoor can interpret an article :)

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:48 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

So you are not gonna do some 'Ijtihaad' on constitutional matters :))

BTW legal fraternity is devided, one is taking side of CJ and other is opposing CJ !

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:50 #
toamin
member

do you have any experience of working with legal fraternity? even a little experience would make it clear that lawyers have political affiliations and only support in the direction of their political affiliation, not in direction of their interpretation of constitution.

kabhi karachi bar jao aur thora waqt guzaro in kalay coat walon kay sath :)

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 4:55 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

So, what does it imply dude :))

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:03 #
javedsheikh
Members

It is a controversy between pro-choice and pro-Constitution.

This has been an established principle that a senior most person is to be promoted to the next position.

Why a particular group wants to keep a certain judge in
Punjab?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:04 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Sheikh Sahib,
i dont know about 70s ...
but this time around ..i can easily see and judge that who is guilty now ?
who is keep repeating mistakes after mistakes ?
who is being trying to adventures again and again ?
and who is keep ignoring constitution ?

any neutral observer can see who is on the wrong track?

only those ,cant see ,who has a blind fold on their eyes ...

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:04 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

Beenai,

Wouldn't it be nice if we discuss who's 'appointing authority' of SC Judges as per article 177 of the 1973 constitution !

Is there any ambiguity ???

QUOTE

177. Appointment of Supreme Court Judges.
(1) The Chief Justice of Pakistan shall be appointed by the President, and each of the other Judges shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Chief Justice.
(2) A person shall not be appointed a Judge of the Supreme Court unless he is a citizen of Pakistan and-

(a) has for a period of, or for periods aggregating, not less than five years been a judge of a High Court (including a High Court which existed in Pakistan at any time before the commencing day); or

(b) has for a period of, or for periods aggregating not less than fifteen years been an advocate of a High Court (including a High Court which existed in Pakistan at any time before the commencing day).

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part7.ch2.html

UNQUOTE

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:06 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

I think constitution is very much clear about who's 'appointing authority' i.e. President of Pakistan !

The term 'cosultation' is a bit ambiguous !
I understand it's high time that such ambiguities be removed from constitution !

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:08 #
javedsheikh
Members

"(1) The Chief Justice of Pakistan shall be appointed by the President, and each of the other Judges shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Chief Justice."

For your kind information there is a file full of the Correspondence among President and the Chief Justice, what is known as 'Consultation'.

I hate Zardari, but here, he has gained some points.
He might emerge as a good politician in the coming days.

Unfortunately, 9 Stars, once again have been trapped by a wrong emotional judgment and this time there is no
Henry Kissinger for their rescue.
Good Night.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:15 #
toamin
member

well at least i see someone impressed with zardari!

i'll remember this and let the time decide if this was good or a blunder!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:18 #
Beenai
Moderator

what Constitution is saying ...
is very obvious and Zardari and CO. needs to learn some legal terminology in order to justify their unconstitutional acts .

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:21 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

Beenai,

""what Constitution is saying ...
is very obvious """

>>>

You are absolutely right, but I think it's SC which needs to learn about constitution and then interpret it accordingly it's not vice versa !

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:26 #
zingaro
Member

Javed Sahib ... Just for your information though I believe you would be knowing it already .. that many a times interpretation of a section is made with reference to other sections or with some other judgments. Even to explain the scenario the examples are presented from other countries' court decisions etc.

Now in this particular case, Supreme court in another verdict on Al Jahad Trust, has already clarified as what is meant by "consultation". It is obvious that the advice of CJ will be supreme. There is no doubt that the appointment of Chief Justice is a right of President, but once a CJ is appointed, then he is to decide about his institution. He is entrusted to run his institution as he deems appropriate.

Now we set aside all the constitutional aspect and we look it generally. Is it not true that Mr. Zardari is biased against the present CJ and his team? Is it not true that Mr. Zardari is doing it all with the consultation of fake doctor Babar Awan, Latif Khosa, etc, who personally dislike CJ. These are the people who sabotaged Bhurbun accord and thus caused PPP to earn disgrace.

The other aspect of staging this successful drama to divert once again the attention of public and Judiciary from Swiss cases, corruption. Mr. Zardari & Co. have found it successful that in order to get rid of old problem, create a new problem.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:37 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

zingaro,

Read again what constitution says

"""177. Appointment of Supreme Court Judges.
(1) The Chief Justice of Pakistan shall be appointed by the President, and each of the other Judges shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Chief Justice.
"""

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:42 #
javedsheikh
Members

Everything has been performed according to Constitution.
There is no doubt.
Consultation is on record, what would be presented to the Court on 18th February.
Keep in mind also that
Consultation is not binding upon President.
President has to discuss but is not bound to accept the Consent of the Chief Justice.
It is 'Consultation' not 'Compulsion'
The Rule of Seniority should prevail.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Feb 2010 5:43 #