Conference: Khilafah - The Need for Political Unity

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Conference: Khilafah - The Need for Political Unity

(34 posts)

Londonistan
Member

http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/who-is-ht/htb-national-events/conference-khilafah-the-need-for-political-unity.html

Posted 3 years ago on 01 Aug 2008 22:09 #
Revivalist
member

May Allah (swt) make this event a great success and make it a great step forward for the establishment of Khilafah. May Allah (swt) reward all those brother and sisters who sacrifice there family, wealth, energy, blood etc for this cause. Verily! There are glad tidings for those who are striving day and night for Khilafah for the re-establishment of Allah’s deen, may Allah (swt) accept these efforts and grant us Khilafah Reshida again. Amen

Regards

Posted 3 years ago on 04 Aug 2008 12:48 #
Insider
Member

what will you do if the caliph is shia?

Posted 3 years ago on 05 Aug 2008 20:37 #
Revivalist
member

Insider
FYI the spokesman of HT in Iraq is a Shia brother. Please I told you don’t create division in this noble Ummah and don’t play in the hands of the enemy. Try to resolve the problem and not to create it. Remember one day we will stand in front of Allah (swt) and will be accountable for all our deeds even for our discussions here.

Regards

Posted 3 years ago on 06 Aug 2008 8:32 #
khyal-e-tanzim
Member

Revivalist what do you mean by that "Insider
FYI the spokesman of HT in Iraq is a Shia brother. Please I told you don’t create division in this noble Ummah and don’t play in the hands of the enemy. Try to resolve the problem and not to create it. Remember one day we will stand in front of Allah (swt) and will be accountable for all our deeds even for our discussions here."

Please accept the simple fact that this noble ummah is divided already. Please tell me what will the caliph do regarding this division. How he is going to overcome this division?

Regards.

Posted 3 years ago on 06 Aug 2008 19:07 #
Revivalist
member

Tanzim
I mean to say that our spokesman in Iraq is shai in response to his question. Please read his question then you will understand the context. In fact the differences between fiqs are quite old and despite those differences Muslims lived together for centuries especially Iraq. If you read a report published by one of the think tank in USA by the name of “US policy in the Muslim world Post 9/11” It clearly states that US should incite Shia Sunni issues and Arab Ajam issues. So in fact these are created issues and our rulers are part of this evil plan to divide Muslims on these lines.

As for as what would the caliph do to resolve these differences so bro its very easy and Islam has an excellent mechanism for it. If you read Quran Allah (swt) said in one Ayah “Obey Allah (swt) his Messenger (saw) and the one in authority of ruling and if you have any dispute refer it to Allah (swt) and his Messenger (saw)” You can clearly see that the world Uleul Amr is used and Uleul Amar is a clear indication to the ruler, to that ruler who implements Islam. So his obedience is obligatory upon each and every Muslim. Moreover there is a famous Principle in Islam which is “Al Hukmu-s-sultany yarfaul Khilaf” the ruling of the caliph resolve disputes. One the caliph with adopt certain rule then it become obligatory upon people to follow that even if they disagree with him but that adoption Must be based on Islam and not on his personal wishes and desires and we see quite a lot examples in the time of Sahaba where they use to disagree with the caliph still obey him, because they knew the ruling regarding this.

At last I will say that there are differences amongst the Muslims but those difference which is based on evidence and are in Fiqh are allowed and will remain there in the Khilafah state as it remained there till the time of our beloved prophet (saw). So we should understand the nature of difference and try to resolve it and accept it rather then converting a person who is following another Fiqh to yours and based on some minor difference say that he is wrong and you are right, this is attitude it self is not Islamic.

Allah knows best!

Regards

Posted 3 years ago on 07 Aug 2008 6:33 #
Insider
Member

sooo if the caliph is sunni he will give a decree that everyone must pray in the sunni style, outlaw matams, and make the shias take the correct shahada and everyone will just obey?

Posted 3 years ago on 07 Aug 2008 21:00 #
khyal-e-tanzim
Member

Dear revivalist,

you mean to say that Our leader are not Good. very good observation. But my question is what if this happens to the caliph too? Oooohhhhhhhhhhhh sorry i forgot that he will be a true muslim and not like our muslim leader who are actually not muslim. Am i right? (lol).

Now if I understood correctly you mean to say that when quran talks of the men in control or in power then quran talks of caliph and not our leaders of today. is this what you are trying to tell me?

well you True Islamic leaders and lovers have a unique way of understanding quran. I hope that i am not that close to God that i can understand what he meant when he uses the words.

Regards.

Posted 3 years ago on 08 Aug 2008 19:37 #
Revivalist
member

Tanzim
Bro please try to understand straightforward and simple things. You still have doubt in it that YOUR LEADERS are bed????? I told you time and again that the mechanism defined by Islam of accountability is way strong and effective then any other system, that’s why if the caliph deviates from the contract, which is that he will implement Islam and the people will obey him on this condition, the people are obliged to bring him back on the track and he resist then his removal becomes obligatory upon the citizens of the state even by force.

Bro it is not funny discussions and be serious while discussing Islam and matters related to Islam.

Yes, when Quran say obey the leader it means a leader which rule by what Allah (swt) has revealed and not a ruler like Busharraf or Qadafi etc.

Regards

Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2008 6:34 #
khyal-e-tanzim
Member

Dear Revivalist,

Every time you talk of Islam you make me laugh. There are many versions of Islam prevailing at the moment and all the versions telling other versions wrong.

You seem reluctant to accept this simple fact and you talk about Islam and you forget that when you talk about Islam you only talk about your version. I have replied your posts a lot of time with Quranic ayas and you don't even reply with facts or ayas. You just say what you believe in irrespectively of what others believe or understand. If You know Islam then lets talk about Islam first. lets see if you can tell or explain to me what Islam is? lets start with a simple question. what is Islam? who's religion is it and what is the meaning of the word Islam.

Regards.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 21:13 #
Revivalist
member

Bro why don’t you understand that the version you are talking about are in fact different understandings about different things in Islam which is allowed. The differences are mainly in non-decisive things (non-Qatae) which is ok and i have no disagreement in it. But as for as the implementation of Islam is concern so there in no disagreement amongst any Scholars of Islam, when I say scholars I really mean it and I don’t mean sold people. There is no disagreement about Khilafah being a vital obligation upon Muslims.

AS for as the definition of Islam is concern Islam came from the root word Salam which means peace it also mean to surrender your self. So it is defined as Submitting your will to Allah (swt). That’s why a Muslim is a person who Submit his or her will to Allah (swt). It is a complete way of life having solution of all our issues and problems.

As for as Sunnah as a source is concern so there are some unfortunate people who conceder this but it is a grave sin a sever misunderstanding and lack of knowledge about Islam. I will give you a link of a small book which in 1978 some of our members went to meet Qaddaffi and discussed with him the matter of Sunnah. Please go through it, I hope you will understand the issue comprehensively.
http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/multimedia/books/59-books/2127-communiqurom-hizb-ut-tahrir-to-colonel-gadaffi-1978?fff019c2376f158e0d4fcbcede9e72fc=4cf661a3c8e03216136b56afad4f5d4b

Regards

Posted 3 years ago on 14 Aug 2008 8:09 #
KhanBaba
Member

@Revivalist

dear bro. No one is against the Sunnah. But Ahadith are in thousands and alot of them were published in different Kings and dictators. So there are some contradistinctions. We should accept those which are logical and majority have logics except few. so that is the reason that some people have reservations.
For examples, there was debate amongst some friends in Holand. two of them were from Sudan,6 from phelastein, five were from india and me from Pakistan . The Arabs were denied the Hadith Which is very popular in Indo-Pak.
"Husayn is from me and I am from Husayn, Allah befriends those who befriend Husayn and He is the enemy of those who bear enmity to family of prophet." . The Arabi people were not accepting this because they were saying that according to this Hadith Yazeed and his father Muawia are enemy of the family of Prophet so its not true to enemy of God as they were Muslim........I was silently listening to them.

Give me your opinions in this situations...Please

Posted 3 years ago on 14 Aug 2008 11:10 #
sajjadasheikh
Member

@khyal-e-tanzim

As just been observer from above comments i cannot see the actual point of arguement you pushing on.

To answer your question on how to unite the ummah? well brother what i have observed is the ummah itself is united, none of what i have met so far in my life either from any part of world disagrees to get united. I belive it only requires someone to stand for it, and job done.

Where coming to pity issues like what ehkam to follow either (shia or sunni), If muslim Ummah today can live under none of these they will happily accept any of it which presented with dalil, authenticity and agreed by majority of scholars.

Posted 3 years ago on 15 Aug 2008 11:49 #
faraz81
Member

@ revivalist
u wrote:"Bro why don’t you understand that the version you are talking about are in fact different understandings about different things in Islam which is allowed." can u pls give me any referance for acceptance of differences.there was no incident at the time of Prophet PBUH that some people prayed like this and some like that,there was a complete unity of actions.
i deny ur explanaiton on behalf of following verses,read them carefully,
1.And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.(3:103
2."(O! Rasool) this Book has been sent to you for the express purpose that you
may make clear to them, those things in which they differ".(16:64)
3.Be not among those who caused factionalism in their Deen and became
factions.Every sect remains absorbed in the frenzy that it is the only sect, which
is on the right, and the others are fallacious and fictitious."(30:31-32)
4.Those who create difference in Deen and divide themselves into sects (O!
Rasool) you have got nothing to do with them.(6:159)
now tell me how can point out that the differences were there in the time of Prophet,how can u declare there were differences in the time of Ameer ul Mumnins (and for ur kind information,the word khalifah and khilafat is a trap made by Abbasi kings to save thier power and to present themselves as real representative of islam,otherwise u will see,none of Ameer ul Mumnin used this term of khalifah or khilafat.).tell me now ur point of view and ask pls these points to the leaders,u are following in the name of Allah.
best wishes

Posted 3 years ago on 15 Aug 2008 13:46 #
faraz81
Member

here m again with one more important referance,
9:107-108 its abt masjid e zarar.
107. And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.
108. Never stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure.

Posted 3 years ago on 15 Aug 2008 13:59 #
Londonistan
Member

Arab, Turk, Indian OR MUSLIM

Posted 3 years ago on 15 Aug 2008 17:13 #
Londonistan
Member

Political Unity Conference 2008

Posted 3 years ago on 15 Aug 2008 21:43 #
KhanBaba
Member

@Londonistan

Another problem for Muslim. Now they are fighting with America for their independence. In future we will fight for Khilafat. it mean we will have another some years for fighting. Why Muslims are being misguided from the way of progress by these mean. God bless Muslim from these Misguiders.

Posted 3 years ago on 16 Aug 2008 12:53 #
Asif
Blocked

yaar do say, what you have achieved while pursuing for khilafat, achieved mean what you have done so that people can by themselves would ask you to lead them.

Pakistan is not at all in good shape, so it can be a test for your struggle as they would work for your cause whole heartedly by just paying a visit to them & offering your sympathies & just a promise that everything would become good when you would be in power.

Posted 3 years ago on 16 Aug 2008 13:22 #
Insider
Member

there is no way i am going to let an ali-worshipper tell me how to practice my religion. i dont care if you call him a "caliph" or not.

I will not change my shahadah from la ilaha illala muhammadur rasoolulah. I will not beat myself with chains nor will I pray to ali so that he can intercede for me with Allah. I will make dua to Allah directly.

This whole caliph system is screwed already if you are going to let shias who are less than 10% of the muslim ummah dictate how the rest of the world practices their religion.

Posted 3 years ago on 17 Aug 2008 17:33 #
KhanBaba
Member

@insider.. Nonsense!

You are really nonsense person to attack on other Muslims. I am sunni and have alot of time spent with shia. I have never seen that they say Ali is same as Allah. I was also gnorant person just like you when Young..even thinking much more negative then you about shia muslims. After some time i got the reality that shia are almost just like us. They pray to Allah. they think Ali as Gods obedient person. After some research i have read why this misguidance come to us. Its due to these Wahabies, Salafies who are being created by CIA with the help of Saudi Arabia and ZIA in Pakistan. If you want to
know information about this. Then please find urdu translation of the book from CIA agent.His name is Hamfray. You will get information how these nonsense are created in our islam.
Where is Khilafat is concern. SHia are 10% or more..They dont accept...Also we sunni which are educated and well mannered and lover of democracy will never accept this.

Please try to write well behaved comments if you have little bit sense.

Posted 3 years ago on 19 Aug 2008 13:31 #
latentry
Member

How sad people are shia, suni, wahabi, braveli.......... dont know whatever more.

Atleast i am a MUSLIM and thanks God i dont believe in this shia, suni etc crap

Posted 3 years ago on 19 Aug 2008 13:59 #
KhanBaba
Member

You are right .In my opinion there is should harmony amongst all the religions. The religion should be just limited to personal life and connection between god and individuals. There should be no rule of any religion in systems and law of the state. The law should be merely based on for choice of all the people.

Posted 3 years ago on 19 Aug 2008 16:00 #
khyal-e-tanzim
Member

Dear revivalist,

i hope from the comments of khanbaba you came to know how far united we are in Islam but i also do know that you can see this simple fact. I dont know how you will answer to God when he will ask you a question regarding your deeds but i can tell you for sure that if you are going to take the names of any thakedars of Islam then i don't think you have any chance because you yourself say that it is Rasool who must be followed and not others when it comes to God.

35:18 Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another's burdens if one heavily
laden should call another to (bear) his load. Not the least portion of it
can be carried (by the other). Even though he be nearly related. Thou canst
but admonish such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer.
And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and
the destination (of all) is to Allah.

Al Quran 18:102 Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as
protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for
(their) entertainment.

9:31 They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in
derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary;
yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He.
Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate
(with Him).

25:30 And the messenger saith: O my Lord! Lo! mine own folk make this Qur'an
of no account.

For your argument that Books of hadith can be replaced for rasool then this aya is very celar in its meanings please read.

2:79 then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

@ insider

23:96 Repel evil with that which is best: We are well acquainted
with the things they say.

49:11 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may
be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh
at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor
defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive)
nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one)
after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.

Regards.

Posted 3 years ago on 19 Aug 2008 20:21 #
khyal-e-tanzim
Member

Dear revivalist,

i hope from the comments of khanbaba you came to know how far united we are in Islam but i also do know that you can't see this simple fact. I don't know how you will answer to God when he will ask you a question regarding your deeds but i can tell you for sure that if you are going to take the names of any thakedars of Islam then i don't think you have any chance because you yourself say that it is Rasool who must be followed and not others when it comes to God.

35:18 Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another's burdens if one heavily
laden should call another to (bear) his load. Not the least portion of it
can be carried (by the other). Even though he be nearly related. Thou canst
but admonish such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer.
And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and
the destination (of all) is to Allah.

Al Quran 18:102 Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as
protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for
(their) entertainment.

9:31 They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in
derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary;
yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He.
Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate
(with Him).

25:30 And the messenger saith: O my Lord! Lo! mine own folk make this Qur'an
of no account.

For your argument that books of hadith can be replaced for rasool then this aya is very celar in its meanings please read.

2:79 then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

@ insider

23:96 Repel evil with that which is best: We are well acquainted
with the things they say.

49:11 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may
be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh
at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor
defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive)
nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one)
after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.

Regards.

Posted 3 years ago on 19 Aug 2008 20:22 #
altaf
Member

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Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2008 17:31 #
javedsheikh
Members

Khilafat could be accepted and established only if it is free of Jihalat, what seems to be impossible.

Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2008 17:41 #
altaf
Member

Please visit::
http://www.brasstacks.pk/videos.aspx

Posted 3 years ago on 22 Aug 2008 10:08 #
KhanBaba
Member

There is nothing relating to state affair should be based on religions any where in the world. Religion should be confined to personal matters between God and individuals.Religion makes Good people and Good people make Good systems for all sorts of people with equal choice.
If all the world wants system according to religions then some more 100s years and lots of killing and deadly attacks are required to prove the best religion first...Once all the world agree on one religion..then we can think to have system on the basis of that religion.

Posted 3 years ago on 22 Aug 2008 17:15 #
Londonistan
Member

@Khanbaba

Stick to one thread, posting same answers to all the different threads is really annoying!

Posted 3 years ago on 22 Aug 2008 21:28 #
Insider
Member

latentry, do you pray five times a day and believe in lailaha illala muhammadurrasoolulah?

Then you are a sunni. Good day.

Posted 3 years ago on 16 Sep 2008 18:39 #
Insider
Member

the shias pray to ali and pray that he intercedes for them with allah. that is enough right there.

that is no wahabi teaching, that is common knowledge.They curse abu bakr, that is common knowledge.

You can sugar coat it all you want, but shias are a totally different breed of innovators.

Posted 3 years ago on 16 Sep 2008 18:43 #
Londonistan
Member

Insider,

go, get a life!

Posted 3 years ago on 16 Sep 2008 19:52 #
Insider
Member

why dont you go read a book

Posted 3 years ago on 17 Sep 2008 20:43 #