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Darwaza e Khlifat

(44 posts)
  1. kingsalah
    Blocked

    Darwaza a Khlifat a beautiful poem in Bang e dara by Allam Muhammad Iqbal

    Allam Iqbal said to the Muslim World don't worry about your country. The counrties in this world are not important thing to Muslims. The important thing to Muslims is Islam we have to struggle for Islamic syetem.

    We the people of pakistan what we have made a pakistan pakistan is our first priority. every boys of Pakistan is saying that i will kill u if talk against pakistan. Can any one tell me any one if here is the lover of prophet.All are the lover of Pakistan no one lover of Islam and great people of Islam. Soon we will see the End of Pakistan if Pakistan is our first priority like musharraf and islam is second priority

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 9:55 #
  2. Dear King

    I would be highly obliged if u could explain a link between Allama Iqbal's poem and love for prophet and love for Pakistan ?

    In my oponion u r confused by putting too much things in one place. For love of prophet , i m not answerable to any person. But for love to a state , i m answerable being a citinzen to the state and fellow countrymen.

    I agree to your oponion that 'Soon we will see the End of Pakistan '.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 10:04 #
  3. khurram Zaman
    Member

    king,
    Love your common point that is ISLAM if you want save Pakistan.This is exactly the message should we learn by heart.
    Agreed....

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 10:50 #
  4. shahzad1924
    member

    kingsalah, could you please try to post the poem here?

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 13:21 #
  5. zjshami
    Member

    1. Why Iqbal demanded for an independent piece of Land for the Muslims of India, if he was against the concept of State?

    2. Where you will enforce Islamic System?
    In the Air, over the clouds or in the Sea?

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 13:34 #
  6. shahzad1924
    member

    "1. Why Iqbal demanded for an independent piece of Land for the Muslims of India, if he was against the concept of State?"

    he wasn't against the concept of a state. in fact he was very much with the idea of an Islamic state.

    "2. Where you will enforce Islamic System?
    In the Air, over the clouds or in the Sea?"

    over the whole world! just like it was a hundred years ago

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 13:49 #
  7. chechen
    Member

    I haven't read the poem but feel that Iqbal was more enthusiatic about the implementation of Islamic sharia based state rather than a banana republic which unfortunately happened. Iqbal knew that the ignorant masses, the common man on the street, had no idea whatsoever of the totality of Islamic system let alone a Islamic state. The race to be independent was at a very fast pace than the ability to understand the running of a state.

    The British were more concerned with the implementation of their fake secular systems than a Islamic state and hence their granting of independence. They knew more than the ignorant masses that Islam will be in sharp contrast and oposition to what their neo colonialistic designs. The addition of mere label 'Islamic Republic' had no value as all the systems that were the status quo at that time and running were kufr based. The politicians that spearheaded the struggle to be free were well educated in the western laws and systems. They were loyal to Islam but their overall idea of Islamic state was zero. I remember at one point Ayub Khan visioned his dictatorship as a "khilafa" system. As some scholars said "they loved Islam more than they understood it".

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 17:39 #
  8. @king salah
    'Allam Iqbal said to the Muslim World don't worry about your country. The counrties in this world are not important thing to Muslims.'
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Allama Iqbal also said many things that have been distorted, and for that this link provides a good read:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6730755/DistortingIqbal

    His views about a 'modern Muslim' and Khilafat are both discussed here.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:10 #
  9. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Iqbal says about 'nationalism';

    In taaza khudao'n main barha sab se watan hai
    jo pairahan is kaa hai wo mazhab ka kafan hai
    aqwaam!! main makhlooq-e-khuda bat'ti hai is se
    qaumee-yat-e-Islam ki jarh kat'ti hai is se
    baazoo tera tauheed!! ki qoowat se qawi hai
    Islam tera!! dais! hai, tu!! mustafa'vi!! hai
    nazzaara-e-dereena zamaane ko dikha de
    ay mustafa'vi khaak main is but ko mila de

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:27 #
  10. netengr
    blocked

    Allama Iqbal was a great philosopher and thinker ,but some Qutbi Jamatis treat him as prophet and take his Poetry as verses .Allma Iqbal poetry and thinking has been change from time to time ,Some of his poetry is very good and according to Islam but some of his work has his own thinking which does not reflect islamic ideology .We should treat him as philosipher not a prophet

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:27 #
  11. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Iqbal also says;

    nikal kar khankahon say ada kar rasm e shabbiri
    keh faqr e khankahi hay faqat andoah o dilgeeri
    taray deen o adab say arahi hay boay rahbani
    yahi hay marnay wali ummatoon ka aalam e peeri

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:28 #
  12. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Iqbal also says;

    Tu ne poochi hea Imamat ki haqekat mujh se,
    Haq tujhe meri terhan sahib-e-asrar kare,
    Hea wohi tere zamane ka Imam-e-berhaq,
    jo tujhe hazir-o-mojood se bezaar kare,
    mot k aayene me tujh ko dikha ker rukh-e-dost,
    zindagi tere liye or bhi dushwar kare,
    de k ahsas-e-ziyaan tera lahu germa de,
    fikar ki saan cherha ker tujhe talwar kare,
    fitna Milat-e-bezah hea IMAMAT is ki,
    jo muslma ko slateen k porastaar kare.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:28 #
  13. chechen
    Member

    no one is treating him as prophet sas. As a matter of fact no one refers to him except some indo-pak muslims. If you refer to Iqbal you are prone to error. You refer to Prophet SAS and Sahaba karaam. Period. Some of his poems are supporting the grave worshippers too. He has written some poems at the graves of so called saints.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:34 #
  14. netengr
    blocked

    Dr Israr says Iqbal poetry is "ilhami "

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:37 #
  15. chechen
    Member

    Who is Israr Ahmed? Forget him. The same one who said there is no Jihad in Kashmir and Taliban should surrender to Kuffar.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:40 #
  16. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Those who go against Jihad, are traitors! to us.

    Without Jihad there is no Muslim

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:43 #
  17. Anonymous

    @hariskhan

    Are muslims required to do no other things except Jihad?

    or is Jihad the first requisite to be a Muslim?

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 21:08 #
  18. chechen
    Member

    nothing. Jihad starts from the day you are born until you die. On the daily basis it starts when you wake up and goes on until you sleep. And even if you sleep you should have intention of Jihad. Therefore Jihad is all encompassing way of life for a Muslim. It is simply to do good and resist temptations to do bad.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 21:13 #
  19. Lets keep this discussion focused; Did he foresaw that 'Darwaza-e-Khilafat' would be blocked. More from Iqbal:

    wo faqa kash kay mout say derta nahin zara
    Rooh-e-Muhammad (PBUH) uss kay badan say nikal dou
    Fikr-e-Arab ko dey key farangi takhayyulaat
    Islam ko Hijaz-o-Yaman say nikaal dou
    Afghanion ki ghairat-e-deen ka hai ye ILaaj
    Mullah ko un kay koh-o-daman say nikaal dou
    Ahl-e-Haram say un ki riwayaat cheen lo
    Aahu ko murghzar-e-hatan say nikaal dou
    Iqbal kay nafs say hai laaley ki aag tez
    Aisey ghazal sira ko chamman say nikaal dou

    Dr. Iqbal is assuming here that Satan (can be subtituted with USA and it's helping hands) is addressing to his followers.

    (Meanings: Faqa kash = Poor man but of strong Faith; derta = Scared of; Badan = Body; Fikr = Thoughts; Takhayyulat= Concepts; Ghairat-e-deen = Strong Faith; ILaaj = Cure; Mullah = Referring to strong faith Muslim here; Koh-o-daman = Country (Afghanistan here); Ahl-e-Haram = Muslims; Riwayaat = Traditions; Aahu = Deer; Murghzar-e-Hatan= Land of Faith and peace; Nafs = Thoughts; Laley = Garden; Ghazal Sira = Reformer here)

    From: ILLAMA IQBAL DISCUSSING DILEMMA OF THE MUSLIM WORLD

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 21:33 #
  20. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bebus: Again, you don't have understanding of the word 'Jihad'.

    How can we even discuss matters, when your subject knowledge is not up to par?

    One definition of Jihad is;

    Exteme! struggle in the name of ALLAH ALMIGHTY, without!!! asking for anything in return, other than ALLAH ALMIGHTY's 'Razaa'

    There are many other definitions of Jihad. But! you have to have subject knowledge to take part in a discussion.

    Or at least try to comprehend what is being mentioned, before presenting counter arguments.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 21:53 #
  21. shahzad1924
    member

    "Fikr-e-Arab ko dey key farangi takhayyulaat"

    and excellent description of how britain divided the Muslims. on one hand, they sowed the seeds of nationalism in the Arabs and told them that the seat of the khilafah should be in the hijaz and on the other hand, they prepared the young turks movement against the Arabs.

    now, what else could he be talking about other than the destruction of the khilafah?

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 21:54 #
  22. Anonymous

    @hariskhan

    You did not understand my question nor did you give any reply, except boasting that only you have the knowledge and understanding of every thing. I will also say you to at least try to comprehend what is being mentioned, before presenting counter arguments.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 22:14 #
  23. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bebus: I didn't answer you, because its a stupid question.

    I want to avoid having to delve into stupidity to give you a fitting answer.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 22:53 #
  24. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bebus: I will accuse!! you of defocusing this thread.

    Whichever thread that you go to, you DO NOT!!! contribute anything constructive. Rather you are VERY GOOD at picking fights, resulting in defocusing people from the original topic.

    You have done it again, here.

    I will ask the admin to permanently BAN!!! you from this forum for continuing this activity over a long period.

    IF they won't, I will ask them to put you on 'monitoring', to note if you contribute anything constructive on this forum. So they can take appropriate measures later on

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 22:56 #
  25. chechen
    Member

    I am not trying to defocus on subject but this is a rare transcript of speech by a young Muslim American during graduation at America's most prestigious University-Harvard.

    American Jihad by Yasin. This was one of the first convocation speech given by a Muslim born to American mother and Pakistani father. His speech won standing ovation at Harvard school after Zionist protestors asked him to drop the word "jihad". He didn't drop the word but change it to American Jihad.

    Zayed Yasin delivered this speech at Harvard University's commencement ceremony on June 6th. Its original title, "My American Jihad," sparked a protest from students angry that the speech did not condemn the terrorist attacks of September 11. The title was changed to "Of Faith and Citizenship: My American Jihad," but Mr. Yasin did not change the content of his speech.

    I am one of you. But I am also one of “them.” What do I mean? When I am told that this is a world at war, a war between the great civilizations and religions of the earth, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. “What about me?” I ask. As a practicing Muslim and a registered voter in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, am I, through the combination of my faith and my citizenship, an inherent contradiction?

    I think not. Both the Qu’ran and the Constitution teach ideals of peace, justice and compassion, ideals that command my love, and my belief. Each of these texts, one the heart of my religion, the other that of my country, demand a constant struggle to do what is right.

    I choose the word “struggle” very deliberately, for its connotations of turmoil and tribulation, both internal and external. The word for struggle in Arabic, in the language of my faith, is jihad. It is a word that has been corrupted and misinterpreted, both by those who do and do not claim to be Muslims, and we saw last fall, to our great national and personal loss, the results of this corruption. Jihad, in its truest and purest form, the form to which all Muslims aspire, is the determination to do right, to do justice even against your own interests. It is an individual struggle for personal moral behavior. Especially today, it is a struggle that exists on many levels: self-purification and awareness, public service and social justice. On a global scale, it is a struggle involving people of all ages, colors, and creeds, for control of the Big Decisions: not only who controls what piece of land, but more importantly who gets medicine, who can eat.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 23:16 #
  26. kingsalah
    Blocked

    @ All

    The reason is that why iqbal is against the political concept of country is that in his view the country is like a modern god which allow people to die for itself but in islam u r fighting for the will of Allah subhana ho tahalla. And Iqbal is in favor of state not in favor of country. For a state which muslim construct in Madina. And they dont make madina their country like we have make pakistan. Iqbal is thinking when a islamic state is develop then we as a the preacher of true religion do jihad and soon we will take India back. But we have made our state opposite to his thinking

    Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:04 #
  27. zjshami
    Member

    I am glad Allama Iqbal has been pulled at the Pkpolitics.

    main janta hoon anjjam uska
    jis maarke men mulla ho ghazi

    hajoom kyoon hai ziyda sharab khane men
    faqat ye baat ke peer-i-mughan hai mard-i-khaliq

    mujh ko to sikhai hai afrang ne zindiqi
    is dour ke mulla hain kyoon nang i musalmani

    firdous jo tera hai kisis ne naheen dekha
    afrang ke har qaryya hai firdous ki manind

    aye muslaman apne dil se pooch mullah se na pooch
    ho gya allah ke bandoon se khali kyoon haram

    yahi shaikh i haram hai jo chura kar baich khata hai
    galeem i buazro dalqi awaiso chadara i zahra

    Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:37 #
  28. Iqbal on New Ulema for a New Muslim Society
    Dr. Javid Iqbal

    When the European Colonial Powers penetrated the Muslim world, the Ulema in different Muslim countries resisted them. But their resistance could not stop the advance as the Ulema were totally unaware of the advancement made by human knowledge as well as science and technology in Europe. They fought against the long-range of the imperialists with timeworn rifles and swords. Subsequently when the reformers like Syed Jamal-uddin Afghani, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan etc. preached that in order to know the secret of Western power one had to acquire the new knowledge, they opposed them as Westernized Muslims. It was in this background that in the conflict between the "conservatives" and the "liberals", the liberal Muslim reformers regarded the conservative Ulema as a hinderance in the material progress of the Muslim nations.

    The problem of "conservatism" was handled in two ways in Turkey and Muslim India. In Turkey Kemal Ataturk eliminated the Ulema completely from the religious life of the Turks. But in Muslim India, Iqbal tried his best during his life time to educate and train the Ulema so as to create among them a group of new Ulema to provide a new motivation for Islam to the new Muslim society which he thought of bringing into being.

    Iqbal found the Muslim society suffering from numerous ailments. He has drawn a portrait of it in one of his Urdu articles titled "Qaumi Zindagi" (National Life) which appeared in the journal Makhzan in 1904. He observes:

    "This unfortunate community has been deprived of political, industrial as well as commercial power. Now unconcerned with the demands of times and smitten by stark poverty, it is trying to survive with the help of the useless staff of contentment. Leaving aside other matters, it has so far not been able to settle its religious disputes. Every other day a new sect is brought into being which considering itself exclusively as the heirs of paradise declares the rest of mankind as fuel for hell. This form of sectarianism has scattered the Muslims in such a manner that there is no hope for unifying them as a single community. The condition of our Maulvis is such that if two of them happen to be present in one city, they send messages to each other for holding a discussion on some controversial religious issues, and in case the discussion starts, which usually does, then it ends up in a deplorable brawl. The width of knowledge and comprehension which was a characteristic of the early Ulema of Islam does not exist any more. But there exists a list of "Muslim infidels" in which additions are being made daily by their own hand. The social scene of the Muslims is equally distressing. Their girls are illiterate, their boys are ignorant and jobless. They are scared to try their luck by working as industrial labourers, they consider taking up vocational jobs as below their dignity. The number of dissolution of marriage cases in their families is rising. Similarly the crime among them is on the increase. The situation is quite serious, and there is no solution of the problem except that the entire community should direct its mind and soul completely towards reforming itself. God does not change the condition of a community unless it changes itself."

    According to Iqbal one of the most important factors for the establishment of a new Muslim society was the reform of Islamic culture, and it was in this connection that he felt the need for educating and training the Ulema. He argues:

    "The question of cultural reform among the Muslims is in fact a religious question, because there is no aspect of our cultural life which can be separated from religion. However, because of the occurance of a magnificent revolution in the conditions of modern living, certain new cultural needs have emerged. It has therefore become necessary that the decisions made by the old jurists, the collection of which is generally known as the Islamic Sharâ‘ah, require a review. The decisions delivered by the former jurists from time to time on the basis of the broad principle of the Quran and the Tradition, were indeed appropriate and practical for those specific times, but these are not completely applicable to the needs and requirements of the present times. If one reflects deeply on the conditions of modern life, one is forced to arrive at the conclusion that just as we need the elaboration of a new Ilm-i-Kal«m for providing a fresh religious motivation, we likewise need the services of a jurist who could by the width of his vision stretch the principle so widely as to cover all the possible situations of the present cultural needs. As far as I am aware, the Muslim world has not yet produced any such great Jurist, and if one were to consider the magnitude of this enterprise, it would appear that perhaps it is a job for more than one mind to accomplish, and it may require at least a century to complete the work."

    Iqbal wanted to establish an Islamic university for the education of the new Ulema. This was necessary for the realization of many objectives, and one of them, as explained by Iqbal was:

    Who does not know that the moral training of the Muslim masses is in the hands of such Ulema and preachers who are not really competent to perform this duty. Their knowledge of Islamic history and Islamic sciences is extremely limited. In order to persuade the people to adopt in their lives the moral and religious values of Islam, it is necessary for a preacher of today to be not only familiar with subjects like history, economics and sociology, but must also have complete knowledge of the literature and modes of thinking of the community."

    The Islamic University was not created. However, in the thirties the Aligarh Muslim University thought of introducing a new faculty of Islamic studies, and accordingly Aftab Ahmed Khan, Chancellor of the university wrote to Iqbal seeking his advice. Iqbal wrote a long letter to him which is a very important document. Some of the extracts of the same are given below:

    "Our first and formost object should be to create Ulema of proper qualities who could fulfil the spiritual needs of the community. Please note that alongwith the change in the outlook of the people their spiritual requirements also undergo a change. The change in the status of the individual, his freedom of thought and expression, and the unimaginable advancement made by the physical sciences, have completely revolutionized modern life. As a result, the kind of Ilm-i-Kal«m and the theological understanding which was considered sufficient to satisfy the heart of a Muslim of the Middle Ages, does not satisfy him any more. This is not being stated with the intention to injure the spirit of religion. But in order to re-discover the depths of creative and original thinking (Ijtihad), and to emphasize that it is essential to reconstruct our religious thought. Like many other matter, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan’s far sightedness made him also look into this problem. As you may know he laid the foundations of his rationalism on the philosophical doctrines of an ancient and bygone age for the resolution of this problem. I am afraid, I do not agree with your proposed curriculum of Islamic studies. In my view the revival of the faculty of Islamic studies on the old lines is totally useless. As far its spiritual significance one can say that it is based on stereotype ideas, and as far its educational significance it is irrelevant in the face of the emerging new problems or the new presentation of the old problems. What is needed today is to apply ones mind in a new direction and to exert for the construction of a new theology and a new ‘Ilm-i-Kal«m. It is evident that this job can be accomplished by those who are competent to do it. But how to create such Ulema? My suggestion so that if you desire to keep the conservative element of our society satisfied, then you may start with the school of Islamic studies on the old lines. But your ultimate objective should be to gradually bring forward a group of such Ulema who are themselves capable of independent and creative thinking (Ijtih«d-i-Fikr) in accordance with my proposed scheme …. In my view the dissemination of modern religious ideas is necessary for the modern Muslim nations. A struggle has already commenced in the Islamic world between the old and new methods of education as well as between the upholders of spiritual freedom and those monopolizing religious power. This movement of independence of human thought is even influencing a conservative country like Afghanistan. You may have read the speech of the Amir of Afghanistan in which he has attempted to control the powers of the Ulema. The emergence of numerous such movements in the other parts of the Muslim world makes one arrive at the same conclusion. Therefore in your capacity as the Head of a Muslim university, it is your duty to step forward in this new field with courage."

    These educational reforms proposed by Iqbal were never implemented. Even a couple of months before his death on 21 April, 1938, an attempt was made by one of his devotees to establish a D«r-ul-‘Ulëm according to the specifications of Iqbal, and for this purpose a correspondence started between Iqbal and Al-Mar«ghâ, the Rector of Al-Azhar University of Egypt through Maulana Maudoodi, but the Egyptians could not produce an Arabic instructor satisfying Iqbal’s requirements.

    There are many old and new Islamic educational institutions operating in Pakistan today. But it is difficult to say what kind of impact the duly qualified Ulema of these institutions have on spiritual life of the Muslims of Pakistan. The fact remains that neither Iqbal’s new Muslim society could be brought into being in this country nor new Ulema could be trained on the lines suggested by him for disseminating among the Muslim faith, unity and discipline so that they could collectively face the challenges of the new world.
    http://www.allamaiqbal.com/publications/journals/review/oct98/index.htm

    Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:48 #
  29. chechen
    Member

    I answered this before. What Allama is alluding to Mulla is what he also said once:

    Ye do rakat ke mulla kya jaane Mulkoun ki imamat kya hoti hai

    Allama knew that the role of "Mulla" was supposed to be the role in line with example of Prophet SAS, A religious, political and military leader than can lead the Ummah. Prophet SAS and the orthodox Khalifas were the ones who led the prayers, led the Ummah in war, and led the political and social systems. Unfortunately the "Mulla" was confined to the 4 walls of the masjids by ignorant Ummah. We need to gve Mullah his position as laid out by Prophet SAS to make any revival otherwise we are stuck in the cesspool that we inherited from colonialists.

    Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:51 #
  30. Anonymous

    @hariskhan

    The initiator of this thread quote Allama Iqbal as saying:

    Allam Iqbal said to the Muslim World don't worry about your country. The counrties in this world are not important thing to Muslims. The important thing to Muslims is Islam we have to struggle for Islamic syetem.

    You first posted three poems of Allama Iqbal and then posted the following comments.

    Those who go against Jihad, are traitors! to us. Without Jihad there is no Muslim.

    To your above mentioned comment, which was uncalled for, I asked you a question. Instead of answering my question you gave a Fatwa that I do not have understanding of Jihad and that I at least should try to comprehend what is being mentioned, before presenting counter arguments.

    To this I responded as follows:

    You did not understand my question nor did you give any reply, except boasting that only you have the knowledge and understanding of every thing. I will also say you to at least try to comprehend what is being mentioned, before presenting counter arguments.

    Then you accused me of defocusing the thread and said that you will ask the admin to permanently ban me with your tone which is tentamount to dictate the admin.

    Therefore, if anyone read the above stated facts with a cool mind, he/she will blame you for defocusing the thread as you brought in the word of Jihad in the discussion which had nothing to do with the thread for the time being. I feel that you are a frustrated mind who can only do "Naa're Bazi" and blame all those who may not agree with you. You often call others comments as stupidity which is highly objectionable. You use this forum to project the agenda of a particular party which is spam. Furthermore, you are an intolerent person.

    Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:54 #
  31. zjshami
    Member

    Allama Iqbal's Letter to Jinnah:

    28th May, 1937

    My dear Mr. Jinnah,

    Thank you so much for your letter which reached me in due course. I am glad to hear that you will bear in mind what I wrote to you about the changes in the constitution and programme of the League. I have no doubt that you fully realise the gravity of the situation as far as Muslim India is concerned. The League will have to finally decide whether it will remain a body representing the upper classes of Indian Muslims or Muslim masses who have so far, with good reason, no interest in it. Personally I believe that a political organisation which gives no promise of improving the lot of the average Muslim cannot attract our masses.

    Under the new constitution the higher posts go to the sons of [the] upper classes; the smaller go to the friends or relatives of the ministers. In other matters too our political institutions have never thought of improving the lot of Muslims generally. The problem of bread is becoming more and more acute. The Muslim has begun to feel that he has been going down and down during the last 200 years. Ordinarily he believes that his poverty is due to Hindu money-lending or capitalism. The perception that equality [is (?)] due to foreign rule has not yet fully come to him. But it is bound to come. The atheistic socialism of Jawahar Lal [Nehru] is not likely to receive much response from the Muslims. The question therefore is: how is it possible to solve the problem of Muslim poverty? And the whole future of the League depends on the League's activity to solve this question. If the League can give no such promises I am sure the Muslim masses will remain indifferent to it as before.

    Happily there is a solution in the enforcement of the Law of Islam and its further development in the light of modern ideas. After a long and careful study of Islamic Law I have come to the conclusion that if this system of Law is properly understood and applied, at last the right to subsistence is secured to every body. But the enforcement and development of the Shariat of Islam is impossible in this country without a free Muslim state or states. This has been my honest conviction for many years and I still believe this to be the only way to solve the problem of bread for Muslims as well as to secure a peaceful India.

    If such a thing is impossible in India the only other alternative is a civil war which as a matter of fact has been going on for some time in the shape of Hindu Muslim riots. I fear that in certain parts of the country, e.g. N.W. India, Palestine may be repeated..Also the insertion of Jawarhar Lal's socialism into the body-politic of Hinduism is likely to cause much bloodshed among the Hindus themselves. The issue between social democracy and Brahmanism is not dissimilar to the one between Brahmanism and Buddhism. Whether the fate of socialism will be the same as the fate of Buddhism in India I cannot say. But it is clear to my mind that if Hinduism accepts social democracy it must necessarily cease to be Hinduism.

    For Islam the acceptance of social democracy in some suitable form and consistent with the legal pnncp!es of Islam is not a revolution but a return to the original punty of Islam. The modern problems therefore are far more easy to solve for the Musllms than for the Hindus. But as I have said above in order to make it possible for Muslim India to solve the problems it is necessary to redistribute the coun.ry and to provde one or more Muslim states with absolute majorities. Don't you think that the time for such a demand has already arrived? Perhaps this is the best reply you can give to the atheistic socialism of Jawahar Lal Nehru.

    Anyhow I have given you my own thoughts in the hope that you will give them serious consideration either in your address or in the discussions of the coming session of the League. Muslim India hopes that at this serious juncture your genius will discover some way out of our present difficulties.

    Yours Sincerely,
    (Sd.) Mohammad. Iqbal

    P.S. On the subject-matter of this letter I intended to write to you a long and open letter in the press. But on further consideration I felt that the present moment was not suitable for such a step.

    (http://www.grandestrategy.com/2009/08/iqbal-to-jinnah-letter-1.html)

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 12:20 #
  32. chechen
    Member

    Sister Shami, Thanks for the letter. Allama had proposed the implementation of Sharia. He has referred to that in his letter. He also referred to the social democracy in line with sharia and laws of Islam and not vice versa. The semantics in the letter are tricky and may lead to different interpretaion but whatever interpretation, his intention was return to the "original purity of Islam".

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 14:14 #
  33. zjshami
    Member

    The significance of Iqbal's Letters to Jinnah, after the failure of Round Table Conferences (1930-1933) is that Iqbal didn't pick or pursue any one from religious leaders such as Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Allama Inayat Ullah Mashraqi, Syed Atta Ullah Shah Bokhari, Maulana Mufti Mohmood or any other famous Religious Personality out of so many Religious Group of combined India, but showed his confidence upon a liberal, western oriented leader like
    M. A. Jinnah.
    An Islamic System based upon Social Democracy, and blended with the latest economic, social and political innovations is the most suitable rescue and remedy of the Muslim World.
    That is the theme and essence of Iqbal's message.

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 15:13 #
  34. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @zjshami: The poem you put forward is NOT to be used to 'generalize' ALL Mullah into one category which is marked as bad.

    There was a certain group of Mullah who Iqbal was targetting.

    Your words mean, you are 'generalizing' Mullah in one category and marking them ALL as bad. This is unjust!

    P.S. If one black or a few blacks commit crimes, you don't mark ALL the black community as criminals, for there could be millions of innocent people who you'r being unjust to

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 15:23 #
  35. chechen
    Member

    Those so called religious leaders were akin to what Allama refere tro as do rakat ke Imam. He may have confidence with Jinnah but it does not mean that he was comprimising his vision of a Khilafa type sharia based state. That is crystal clear from his message.

    Allama did not live long to see the disastrous consequence of a secular, liberal, western oriented leader like Ata Turk.In his blind aping of decadent West, Ata Turk cut the entire Turkish Muslims from their heritage. They are neither accepted in Europe and neither comfortable with Muslim world. They have lost their identity.

    As I always repeat, Turks who spearheaded the so called modernization trend in Muslim world are standing at the gates of Europe with begging bowl pleading for Europeans to accept them but were always snubbed by the exclusively Chritian club of European Union. The phrase "Christian Club" was coined by woman PM of Turkey,Tansu Ciller during her tenure. After 70 years of experimenting with social democracy, Turks are returning to the Islamic roots that made them the super power of yester years. The current leadership of Turkey, Abdullah Gul and Taiyab Erdogan are having Islamic not secular roots.

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 15:27 #
  36. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bebus: When you use words like;

    @hariskhan

    Are muslims required to do no other things except Jihad?

    or is Jihad the first requisite to be a Muslim?

    this gives me a very specific signal about you, and your question.

    These type of words are uttered by those who are not asking a question, but are negating the notion and being cynically sarcastic about it.

    Thus my response.

    However, I believe, chechen has already answered your question to my satisfaction.

    Jihad may not be mandatory in symantecs of 'deen', but if you look at its role in a Muslim's daily life, you'll notice, that it is over-whelmed with it.

    If a person resists doing bad deed, that is Jihad. If a person goes for getting education, he's doing Jihad against being illiterate, he's struggling for betterment, etc etc

    Similarly, one definition of jihad is;

    Extreme struggle in the name of ALLAH ALMIGHTY without asking for anything in return, except for ALLAH ALMIGHTY's 'Razaa'

    I don't understand what you want to know with your question?

    I believe you already know the answer to your question, because I believe you have lived among Muslims for a good ammount of time to give you enough insight into their daily life and how it works.

    I believe, it was an attempt to;

    1) mock me

    2) negate Jihad

    I responded as I should for such a situation. If you feel you have been insulted as a result, well, then I request/suggest you should be careful with selection of words, when asking questions.

    Have a pleasant day/evening

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 15:32 #
  37. zjshami
    Member

    Allama Iqbal had a good vision and experience to differentiate between good and bad.

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 15:35 #
  38. amin1924
    member

    Yes, and Iqbal's desire of "return to the original punty of Islam" is clear in his letters.

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 15:53 #
  39. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @zjshami: Yes, without any doubt Iqbal had clarity of thought.

    However, looking at your posts, I can't say the same about you

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:09 #
  40. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I believe, once we have;

    1) Loyal leadership

    2) JUSTICE SYSTEM stands up on its feet

    3) A finance minister who works like Hazrat Sulman (AS) (if I remember correctly)

    we will have enough incentives to establish Pakistan as the leader of Muslim UMMAT, charting the way towards prosperity INSHALLAH.

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:13 #
  41. zjshami
    Member

    The debate is getting close to reality.
    Allam Iqbal and his followers believe that the " original Pantry of Islam" could be restored and concieved only through the struggle of liberal leaders like M.A. Jinnah, Liaqat Ali Khan and not through fundamentalists like Allama Mashraqi, Maulana Moudoodi, Mullah Omer or Taliban.
    Allama Iqbal guided to fix a formula to choose a leader for progress, prosperity and peace and rejected those who caused 72 hurdles and speed breakers.

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:36 #
  42. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @zjshami: Again, this is YOUR personal view of the situation. Mine differs AND is based on reality.

    Taliban's govt. in Afghanistan was legitimate. Taliban are fighting war of resistance against foreign occupation forces.

    Furthermore, in my opinion, Afghani people are the ONLY ones in the world who have the right to over-throw Taliban's govt., since THEY are indigenous Afghanis'. We are NOT! We/Pakistan have/has no right to help US in bringing about regime change in Afghanistan.

    Also, you NEVER present any facts against your argument. You always simply reject Taliban, Maudoodi and others without basing your argument on something substantive.

    This is why I always bash you for worthless posturing.

    Also, I hear the word 'fundamenalist' a lot. Let's discuss this term and its meaning in a dedicated thread, so everyone can 'understand' what IT ACTUALLY means

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:45 #
  43. This link explains why Allama Iqbal cannot be linked to any ism or isms as he was and died as a true believer:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6730755/DistortingIqbal

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:52 #
  44. chechen
    Member

    Sister Shami,

    Please stop this Zionist thug termilogy "fundamentalist". As per the definition of that term all Prophets and Sahaba RA are "fundamentalists".

    Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:53 #

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