Debate Between a Pakistani Army Soldier and Taliban Mullah

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Debate Between a Pakistani Army Soldier and Taliban Mullah

(29 posts)

waseemca
Member

Hey guys this is a very interesting debate that took place between a Pakistan army Soldier and TTP scholar. Furnish your comments who you think won the debate?

Part 1

Part 2

Posted 6 months ago on 06 Nov 2011 20:07 #
Dusky
Member

Debate between Soldier and a scholar??

You mean debate between the one who devoted his life for learning, and other who did not had the opportunity to educate himself at any level so as a professional become solider/sipahi.

Debates happen between two more or less equally educated and in command people.

Posted 6 months ago on 07 Nov 2011 1:37 #
waseemca
Member

I agree with you Dusky that it was an uneven match. The Foji Guy did not have good quranic arguments and was weak in presenting hadith in his favor

Posted 6 months ago on 07 Nov 2011 2:27 #
shafiq12
member

waseemca
Falsehood is always weak against truth -- Soldier seems to keep repeating one question in first video --- Why did taliban take help from american and pakistanis against russian war -- and Taliban representative had given him a satisfactory answer many times --- Pakistani army is preferring its own interest than interest of muslims and islam -- This is the way by which each soldier is brainwashed --

Posted 6 months ago on 07 Nov 2011 3:16 #
saladin89
Member

The fact is that the afgani's have the right to fight back, there is nothing special with us. WE supported the US and allowed them to use our bases and sold many innocent people to US!

The only thing is how they fight, killing of innocent human beings should be condemed, especially when someone is directly targeting them.

They both are muslims, so I disagree with the mufti what he said to the soldier, but I do agree that Pakistan at the moment is a jhoota polisher of US!

Posted 6 months ago on 07 Nov 2011 4:07 #
sochopakistani
Member

This is ideological war, can not be won through arms and ammunition. Taliban mulla outclassed ill knowledge "Soldier". He should have been argued by a knowledgeable scholar like Ghamidi sahib or Zakir Naik or any other reasonable aalim.

Posted 6 months ago on 07 Nov 2011 9:28 #
waseemca
Member

Mr Oblivion I totally agree with you.

Posted 6 months ago on 07 Nov 2011 23:32 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Totally uneven discussion!!!!!
But the army Soldier had no arguments and was quiet lame.
I am actually surprised with this taliban Aalim's way of discussion. Very composed and Knowledgeable ..

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 4:54 #
sochopakistani
Member

Am horrified with thinking of such people taking over Pakistan. But, wont be surprised, they will enjoy big support in Pakistan. Can somebody comment how to tackle with menace?

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 5:00 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Take Political Asylum in UK or Canada........ I am sure, there are many who can help you.. lol

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 5:08 #
sochopakistani
Member

@KS, Yes that is an option. I had read somewhere, only two types of people are living in Pakistan, one who dont have resources to leave the country or dont have skills to survive in developed countries?

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 5:15 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

An appropriate thread discussed 2 years ago..
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/black-banners-from-khurasan-afghanistan-to-jerusalem

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 6:14 #
sochopakistani
Member

Just surprised, no hue and cry on this? Mullah claiming to looting the bank, abduction for ransom, killing of innocent children and women, Jihad against Islamic republic of Pakistan, and no condemnation from self claimed saviors of country?

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 18:48 #
semirza
Moderator

Don't you worry my dear. All the known political parties in existence and active till date have done this and only this..What is wrong if a mulla has done so.? Now listen..

Isn't it a shame, even our clergy has fallen prey to the trap of making a quick buck by looking at and taking an example (through induction) portrayed by our sold out traitors. What a shame!....

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 18:53 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

socho zara socho,

Just because you say it is Islamic Republic does it become one? It is more like a banana republic.

Banks are based on Riba and hence to be closed (not looted)

Jihad against corruption that has now become hallmark of government under any party is mandatory.

Abduction and killing? First let us talk about thousands of innocents that were abducted and ended up in Guantanamo and other jails.

Innocent children. Is there any proof? Is is only thing to be condemned but the target should be parents if they send their kids to get brainwashd by secular education.

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 18:57 #
sochopakistani
Member

@Mirza sahib, Name one politician who acknowledged his wrong doing in the name of Allah?

@AR, what is your argument? does failure from governments to carry out their duties entitle Taliban to carry out heinous crimes in the name of Allah? innocent children? what proof you are asking, during debate he is claiming to kill innocent children and women and intending to continue.
BTW, do you have school going children if Yes, which school are they attending?

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 19:15 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

Yes, they are attending home schooling free from decadent environment. They follow the curriculum of the state but home schooling can keep them safe and sound and impart a solid foundation to go for any higher studies.

For most people, homeschooling is a great option, and it definitely works wonders. Here in Pakistan, most well-off families’ kids go to “trophy” schools (most notably, KGS, LGS) that the parents can proudly proclaim in their social circles. In addition, they attend private tuition centers in the evenings to do their homework or pass O- and A- levels. I know of a lady who has been tutoring neighborhood kids for years, and her whole apartment complex vouches for her excellent abilities to make kids pass exams. Yet, when people mention homeschooling in Pakistan, jaws drop. “Tuitions” are just another word for homeschooling, because the teachers basically take extra classes at their homes (even if they are not the kids’ parents; still, the learning is taking place in a private set-up with a smaller attendance). My friend’s mother has been tutoring children at home for years, and she does it on her dining table.

Home education or homeschooling is actually the best way to make kids learn, in my opinion. But, I would reiterate that it should be done responsibly, and the intention should not be to make one’s kids outshine other kids or to outperform them before time.

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 19:32 #
sochopakistani
Member

@AR, do you have option to send them to proper schools? Any way, so you dont run risk of loosing your children while studying in traditional schools, hence Taliban mullah is not your problem? But what when your children will be attending higher education, Taliban Mullah will not spare them?

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 19:41 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

socho, It was madrasa education that led to the golden age of Islam and later propelled the rennaisance and the industrial revolution. We need to revamp the education on that model. We need to hit the middle ground between secular and madrasa system. Secular education has banned God Almighty in text books and madrasa education has less emphasis on worldly sciences.

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 19:56 #
stingingnettle
Member

Waseemca;

"The Foji Guy did not have good quranic arguments and was weak in presenting hadith in his favor"

So that invalidates all his arguments? Have you ever considered a dialogue outside your comfort zone of quotations and quasi-historic references? Would you feel like a fish out of water? How long would you survive? Do you know if you came live in the glorious circle of the pure because of a happy accident of birth or was it a deliberate and conscious adult decision? Did you ever think about why you conform? Have you read other Holy texts?

Don't start punching the air triumphantly because of a pointless debate between two nobodies, try thinking about your own life and how has it come to pass that you are they way you are.

Abdul Rehman;

Home schooling is a far more preferable option if the other choice is indoctrination via any other kind of school system. The way schools are in Pakistan at the moment, I can understand why you might home school your children and I don't blame you but in a changed Pakistan, this should not be necessary. And no, I have no idea when that will happen.

There are grave dangers associated with allowing schools to preach religion to children. Schools are meant to teach religion/s and not preach. A tolerant society should result from this, a society which does not fear difference but celebrates it. I imagine it is nearly impossible to find parents who have the ability to teach all the necessary subjects to their children at home without the help of tuition from subject specialists. We must remember, a school is not just a place for learning but it is also a vital meeting place for children where they interact with each other and learn social cohesion.

Anyway, I respect you decision and your reasons for home schooling your children.

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 21:29 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

Nettle,

"There are grave dangers associated with allowing schools to preach religion to children"

This education debate led to being interpreted by you as grave danger is in fact due to the mis-understanding of the word "religion" itself. What we have been thrust on our throats as "religion" by secularists is far far away from the real meaning of word Deen. The word deen encompasses all domains in our life from cradle to grave where as religion is commonly understoood in a very narrow interpretation that can be similar to something like "sunday worship" phenomenon.

Posted 6 months ago on 08 Nov 2011 22:45 #
sochopakistani
Member

@AR, You dragged the debate to different direction. Thread is about TTP's point of view and ideology. Questions need to be answered are:
a) Does this Mullah's views are according to Islam? If Yes then why if No, why no condemnation?

b) If Answer to above question is Yes, we need to answer additional questions:
1)Is it OK to kill common Pakistanis being considering them as Americans?
2) Is it OK to Kill innocent Pakistani women or children through indiscriminate bombing?
3)Is it OK to kidnap the common Pakistanis for ransom to finance so called Jihad?
4) Is it OK to carry out bank robberies to finance Jihad?

If any of above answers is yes, I have serious problems with my understanding of Islam...

Posted 6 months ago on 09 Nov 2011 19:05 #
semirza
Moderator

Answers to your questions numbered 1 - 4 is a big NO....

Posted 6 months ago on 09 Nov 2011 19:08 #
stingingnettle
Member

Abdul Rehman

"What we have been thrust on our throats as "religion" by secularists is far far away from the real meaning of word Deen."

The only thrusting down our throats I see is from those who believe 'there is no compulsion in Deen.' Isn't it ironic?

Most of us were born with our Deen, we did not chose it as an adult, reasoned choice. We only heard arguments and threats in its favour and now you want to impose the same as a way of life on all? Deen is your choice, I hope and that is not the law. Nothing that is a choice can be law of the land.

Live your life by what you consider your Deen and let others live by their interpretation of Deen. At the end of the day they are life style choices and no more.

Education is about giving people choice not taking it away. Teach not preach about your lifestyle choice and let others do so to. You have a better chance of winning genuine followers of the Deen that way.

Posted 6 months ago on 09 Nov 2011 23:47 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

Nettle,

You seem to be pick and chose a common verse to justify your logic. Please quote the entire verse not just one sentence. I think you are missing the point. Faith in Islam is the only way of success and only acceptable way to God Almighty. We can't go to disbelievers and give them dawah and then say "There is no compulsion in religion". Dis-belief and Atheism isn't acceptable in the sight of God and we should resist it with all means possible.

As for the explanation of the verse, "That doesn't mean freedom of opinions. But it means that we can't enforce someone to believe in Islam in his heart. This can be done only by Allah. "

and it goes on to say :

"2:256. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower. "

Therefore, if some muslims come and say "It is fine that we are muslims and you/he/she are/is XYZ as there is no compulsion in religion". Then this view is erroneous and wrong, as the only faith acceptable to God is the religion of true submission - Islam.

Posted 6 months ago on 10 Nov 2011 1:08 #
pakstar
Member

where Islam permits to kill innocent / unarmed even in war?

I also wonder where we lost the chapter of mercy and forgiveness from the book of Islam?

Islam = peace , muslim = custodian of peace.

This mulla is an extremist, no justification can authorize any individual to kill innocents regardless of believers or non believers.

To look after the values of Islam is responsibility of the state not of the individual. If an individual cannot bring change with peaceful manners and does bloodshed to spread Islam, then that is not Islam at all.

Islam means winning the hearts not bodies.

Posted 6 months ago on 10 Nov 2011 1:50 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

Chapter of Mercy and forgiveness comes AFTER war is waged and peace established and not vice versa. The war is waged in a just way only to establish deen and thereby win hearts by magnaminity so that peace and tranquility prevails. The Prophet waged 29 major wars in order to establish peace and prosperity that the world never saw before.

BTW, who is killing the innocents? The only ones killing innocents are war criminals from NATO that are waging unjust war based on false pretexts that has killed millions of innocents.

Posted 6 months ago on 10 Nov 2011 2:59 #
pakstar
Member

Pakistan Army has enough of concurring Pakistani nation and Government every 10 years and this is the fruit.

Posted 6 months ago on 10 Nov 2011 3:32 #
sochopakistani
Member

@AR,
As per all the surveys, Pakistanis consider USA #1 enemy, this mullah is justifying Killing of Pakistanis as American.
Who is justifying killing by Nato?, but this mullah is saying killing Pakistani children and women is ok with him as far as "Hadaf" is achieved?

Posted 6 months ago on 10 Nov 2011 16:36 #