Demise of Pakistan « PKPolitics Discuss

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Demise of Pakistan

(64 posts)

KHAN_Sahib
Member

I have been away for some time from PkPolitics but that gave me the opportunity to meet people and analyze the status of Pakistan both within and outside.

I am not going to address the culprit causes/reason/people of our present state but If I have to put it in broad category that will all fit in under these 4 Headings.

1. Corrupt Army Generals
2. Corrupt Politicians
3. USA-Israel-India Trio
4. Lack of honesty and national pride among Pakistanis (except during cricket matches)

In a nutshell, Pakistan is going down day by day and the new date for it's demise have been set in year 2014. In order to accelerate this process towards bleeding to death, USA will keep this inert state unstable and will continue to strike through our corrupt Generals and Politicians.

The Key points is to "Invade" Pakistan eventually. And Americans have decided to achieve this through their allies from both west and east of the borders. There is no way that USA will not attack Pakistan in the end and despite our inflated ego about nuclear arsenal, we will go down unless some thing radical is not done to uproot the seeds of implanted american touts both in army and among the creed of our politicians.

Pakistan is burning from north till south and our beloved Politicians are busy in their dirty politics.

Look at some statistics in terms of cost and specially electricity billing.

China has a population of 1.3 billion people (1330044605 as of mid-2008) and has 28 ministers

India has 33 ministers while their population is 1.21 billion people (2011 census)

While Pakistan's population is 187 million and we have 29 Ministers + 9 Ministers of state = 38 in total.

While our army gets 87% Free Electricity

at the same time, 15,682 WAPDA employees enjoying free electricity:
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/04/15682-wapda-employees-enjoying-free-electricity-na-told/

While at the same time, our MNA's get 50000 units of electricity free as per their allowance which is a simple math.

50000 units x 12 = 600000 per MNA = (@of 15 paisa per unit average) Costs RS. 9300000 per year per MNA. (Per unit price range from 10 paisa to 23 paisa) while at the same time these MNA's enjoy

Ø Monthly Salary : Rs. 120,000 to 200,000
Ø Expense for Constitution per month : Rs.100,000
Ø Office expenditure per month : Rs.140,000
Ø Traveling concession (Rs. 8 per km) : Rs.48,000 (For a visit to ISLAMABAD & return): 6000 km
Ø Daily BETA during Assembly meets : Rs.500
Ø Charge for 1st class (A/C) in train : Free (For any number of times all over PAKISTAN)
Ø Charge for Business Class in flights: Free for 40 trips / year (With wife or P.A.)
Ø Rent for Govt. hostel any where: Free
Ø Electricity costs at home : Free up to 50,000 units
Ø Local phone call charge : Free up to 1,70,000 calls
Ø TOTAL expense for a MNA per year : Rs. 32,000,000
Ø TOTAL expense for 5 years : Rs. 1,60,000,000
Ø For 534 MNA, the expense for 5 years : Rs. 85,440,000,000 (more than 800 corores)

And what are we getting from these MNA'S? Further Corruption? supporting dictators? Bowing down to USA?

This is excluding the BIG DADDY of Pakistan ARMY who are busy in draining all the resources to their top Generals and than we get people like spineless General Kiyani who is worst than a Pimp who atleast delivers after taking money from their clients or perhaps he is pimping for USA in which case, he is delivering the goods.

My Apologies but I will return to this thread again but will appreciate input meanwhile.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 11:50 #
scandinavian
Member

In a way this is a Iraq-like situation - only the way the evil designs are carried out are different. Iraq was weakened by weapons inspectors etc. Saddam might think that they would leave one day and life could get back to "normal". The same is the case in Pakistan. The corrupt leadership is bowing down to every Yankee demand and gradually we are weakened day by day. The scenario is exactly as described above that one day we will so much weakened that America will attack us with backing from their agents in the neighborhood. Any Gillani, Kiani and Butt will then already have left for their safe havens in countries they have invested in.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 12:21 #
salaudin
Member

what a comeback Khan_sahab ;)
Those figures are just staggering yet they still busy with sucking our blood.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 12:24 #
aftab arif
Member

I still don't think US will attack Pakistan directly unless of course it's totally lost it's marbles, because that will bogg them down further in a quagmire and when most countries in the West are now cutting back they budget allocations including they Military expenditure.

As for our ruling class they will continue too bleed us dry until we the people stand up and say enough!

I know many people on here don't believe in democracy but my premise is simple the people who make the effort to vote should do so for people who are of a reputable character and should not look at the Party but rather the person.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 12:28 #
Beenai
Moderator

we can always take things positive.
maybe that's not the end but beginning of a New Pakistan.
a country,we would all love to live in and associated with.
which was dreamed by our fore fathers.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 12:57 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@Aftab,

I totally agree with you, When I said that USA will attack pakistan, I didn't mean that there will be a full scale attack (Not for at least next 2/3 years) but If you look around, the Drone Attacks, Operation Abbotabad, Increasing number of American Army personnel in Pakistan, Release of CIA agent raymond Davis and implantation of american puppets like Zardari-Gilanni-Kiyyani Trio (They do Rhyme though :) is more than enough for indirect american invasion.

We can blame the americans and indians for all this but why should we blame them in the first place? Aren't they suppose to be our enemies? So what are we suppose to expect from them? Garlands?

Problem lies within us. Are we not divided in ethnic groups? Don't we hate our neighbors or make fun of them because they are either rich or poor, wahabi or devbandi, bralvi or hanfi, shia or sunni? Don't we hate each other on the basis of our language and ethnic/political divide? On top of that we don't accept moles, traitors in our own kind.

As regards to democracy, I am all up for it but do we have a real democracy? Does any one think that Zardari-Gillani both represent 51% of the country Population? Why do we have to implement western style of Democracy when it doesn't suit our way of living?

Who will bring order among Army? It won't come from within Army as I know their internal system works. Unless you have a strong civilian Govt in place, army will continue to bleed our back bone. I always had a high regards for people who protect our borders though the continued Drone Attacks and release of RD and operation in Abbotabad gives a very dismal picture of the state of affairs within army. Remember all these atom bombs and missiles are not produced by our Army but by the scientists and experts who have nothing to do with Army.

I would love to see someone coming up with suggestions to correct the 3 ailments Army,Politicians and the mind frame of our nation.

Education is the key but not the education of hatred. We are extremely divided into so many groups that pointing out one group as a cause of our demise will be unfair and will further infuriate a particular section of our nation which won't be advisable.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 13:21 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@Beenai..

I would disagree with you. being positive has not given us anything positive yet. You have to first bleed that root pus/abscess and chop few damaged and rotten branches before expecting the rest of the trunk to grow further.

I don't think that currently, its the beginning of the new pakistan but it more looks like a slow death of this 50 + years old state.

This fate can be changed if we all accept our fault first. Once you know that there is a fault, than we will be able to find ways of rectifying that otherwise we will be as usual busy in pointing fingers.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 13:25 #
aliasghar
Member

Khan_Sahib, welcome back.

Lack of honesty and national pride among Pakistanis (except during cricket matches)

How can the nature of Pakistanis be changed?

we will go down unless some thing radical is not done to uproot the seeds of implanted american touts both in army and among the creed of our politicians.

Can you suggest what that radical thing could be.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 13:53 #
quaidkamazaar
Member

good observations.

perhaps in the next elections, some untested leaders might come to the fore and take control of the govt. its a dream and looks unlikely. it all depends on awaam. and somehow, jaali votes need to be stopped.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:17 #
Beenai
Moderator

@khan sahib,
as they say:
one can live without food for 48 hours.
one can live without water for 24 hours.
but one can not live without hope for a second.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:24 #
aftab arif
Member

@ Khan_Sahib

Its quite true that the problem is within us and if we all did our bit and tried to stay united and not mock other people on the things you mentioned then progess can be made for sure.

As of Amreeka invading us, as you quite rightly said we are already invaded with drones and various characters roaming our nation unhindered and our rulers have no idea or don't give two hoots about the fate of this country.

In regards to democracy i would say we have sham democracy. Democracy has to have some ground work laid for it too be successful ie like the electorate knowing the background of the person you vote for.

As i mentioned earlier if in our neighbourhoods we voted for people who we know are of a good character then surely that person would do a better job than the Choudhary who turns up every 4 years asking for your vote or offering a small indirect bribe ie fixing the street lights or tarmacking your street etc.

We should not be fooled by these short term gains but generally people will accept this in-direct bribe over there long term future. Our job is to convince people and educate people so that they vote in the first instance, and in the second instance to vote for the right person.

Once we have people in power then we can lobby them too change the system and also have a democracy which suits our nation, or of course any other system we want to implement.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:25 #
aliasghar
Member

@quaidkamazaar

good observations..... it all depends on awaam.

But according to khan_sahib there is lack of honesty and national pride in pakistani awaam. So it doesn't depend on awaam?

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:28 #
gv
Member

In response to the whole democracy v. non.democracy debate:

"A desire for a better life, a conviction in the right to experience freedom (whatever that might mean in practical reality), a belief that these changes will lead to better opportunity and more jobs – that is what inspires people......

.....Whether we get western style democracy or not is surely the wrong frame for this debate. Whether the citizens of these countries are able to re-establish their rights to participate in society is."

from: (http://www.economywatch.com/economy-business-and-finance-news/sorry-dr-friedman-you-are-wrong%E2%80%93the-middle-east-has-fundamentally-changed.16-05.html)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:36 #
Beenai
Moderator

@quaidkamazar,
jaali vote should definitely be stopped.
will MQM sacrifice and volunteer to do this first?

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:39 #
Beenai
Moderator

@khan sahib,
i use to work for Philips advertising as a copy writer.
their international slogan was:
lets make things better.
which we also adapted in Pakistan.

today instead of being sounding disappointed .
we should say:
let's make things better.
shouldnt we???

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:49 #
mangotango
Member

4. Lack of honesty and national pride among Pakistanis (except during cricket matches)

I believe this is byproduct of 1-3. I used to be proud of being Pakistani the way ppl fought against the indian aggression in 65 etc etc wht you read in school and are fed through media. Since I realised that it was our own NaPak and mercenary Army messing up since day one for their own interest, I hate the concept of Pakistan. I guess Baloch, Bengalis, Muhajir and all others are innocent and realised earlier than I did. I am neither against nor in favor

I think solution this issue is fairness. NaPak army should be brought under civilian leadership and make peace with neighbouring countries. No to mercenary mind set. I even support concept of United States of Pakistan rather than complete break down, which seems imminent per the 'plan'

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 14:54 #
bsobaid
Member

Fazlur Rehman's brother stole the night of in-camera session on Abbotabad operation:

"Fauj yeha iss liyay aaee hai kion kay iss ko parliament kee zaroorat hai"

We need to be professional at this point and seize this opportunity for good purposes.

Government should implement NS's suggestions in letter and spirit. Bring army under civilian control and make strategic decision and stop hiding issues from awam.

The situation is extremely dangerous to say the least but hopefully we will get throught it successfully, inshallah.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 15:19 #
scindian
Member

Khan_Sahib
[Pakistan is burning from north till south and our beloved Politicians are busy in their dirty politics]

Human rights violation is also a factor for demise of Pakistan.

Pakistan's human rights hero

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/03/pakistanshumanrightshero

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 15:29 #
haider3
member

What I liked about your article Khan_Sahib was the detailed account of how the ruling elite lives its lives of ease. Where I beg to differ is that we will be getting war. We are at war and have been so for the past ten years. Unlike many others, I am wholly optimistic about the future of Pakistan. Quaid-e-Azam predicted it would take us a hundred years to become a country, forty more to go.

Also, for the moment at least, thank God the army is not under civilian control as such. We achieved some sort of a balance in this way. In years to come, however, no doubt we'll change our ways.

Last but not least, please not to lose sight of the fact that if we are badly off, the "mighty" US is no better off. We might call it almost a race between the two to see which country collapses first.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 15:53 #
shriq
Member

Many times I think where is the species called "PATRIOTIC PERSON"?
This species is not found in politicians, army, bureaucrats.

Only found in ordinary people like you and me. i.e. awam. When shall we try to take back our country from the other species?

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 18:26 #
shriq
Member

By the way only this species (our elite) has "ISTEHQAQ" jo majrooh ho jata hai. Baqi ham aur aap to koi haq hi nahee rakhtai!

Hai na?

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 18:28 #
liv_2_die
Member

finally a thread where somethign positive can be discussed other then the usual mud sledging of different 'paid' party workers ... thumbs up khan_sahib

coming to the thread, without a doubt i agree that this is the slow death of our beloved country .. when i look back at the 90's, i recall a very good Pakistan which was peaceful and on a upward spiral towards prosperity .. we used to compete with india in every department (except population) but a decade later it seems we have gone in reverse ... i am afraid the truth is that ever since we did those nuclear tests, our country has gone down the drain .. its a well orchestrated conspiracy against Pakistan by different factions of the world, but urfortunatly we have fallen for it .. we have payed a very heavy price for those nukes (and i am all in favor of the nukes .. they are imperative for our existence) .. but he fault is not all external .. we have to take a look at ourselves ..

the very first step is 'WE' .. unless and until we take a look at 'US' .. we will not sovle any problems .. DIVIDE and RULE still works in our part of the world .. it was a genius move on part of brits and it still pays off .. we all heard about the story of a dying father with 5 children who never stick together .. he tells them to bring a wooden stick each, ties them together and asks each one of them to break them .. no1 was able to break it .. then the father unties the sticks, gives individual sticks to each son and all of them broke it easily .. the father then advices them to stick together, have unity and no1 would be able to break/beat them .. now its just a story that we heard, but do we really apply it in our lives ... forget about sindhi, balochi, punjabi and pathan .. we are so divided between our prefoessions .. army,politicians, awam .. are we not creatng a division between us from the word go .. how do we expect to unite as a nation and fight for our existence when we start with the divisions between ourselves .. we cannot even unite during such clamity, i wonder wot could bring us together .. a cricket series against india .. seriously .. is that wot it takes us to unite .. this is our priority for unity .. a cricket match .. doesnt matter if our very existense is at stake, we will still create divisions amongst ourselves and point fingers .. so my first and foremost suggessions to all my fellow Pakistanis would be to UNITE as a nation .. let us call each other only Pakistani for a while .. lets us stop differentiating between ourselves as politicians, generlas, dukan walas, doctors, electritians, bankers etc .. let us all be PAKISTANI ..

the 2nd step that we need to take (after unity) is the elimination of corruption .. a tall task, but we need to break it down to simple doable steps .. and we need not do anythign radical to get rid of this nasoor .. it can be achieved by a very simple five lettered word 'ISLAM' .. all e need to do is incorporate ISLAM in our lives individually .. i dont need to take a look at u to see if u r incorporating islam in ur life or not .. i only need to do that wid my own life .. in my prayers, in my dealings, in the way i do business, eat, walk, sell tea etc .. we only think islam is praying 5 salahs a day and rest is duniya .. we r wrong .. islam is a code of life .. it tells us each and everything that we have to do in a day ranging from waking up, greeting others, doing business to going to washroom .. we need to bring ISLAM back in our lives especially the distinction bwtween haram/halal .. dont forget our beloved prophet MOHAMMAD (peace be upon him) has told us in clear words that maal and aulad are 2 fitnaz for his ummah .. we would face oppertunities where we can make quick money (be it in the form of rishwat, aid, dollars of gifts), but only if we have ISLAM in our lives, we can save ourself from it .. otherwise the fitna would overtake us .. that then becoems CORRUPTION .. only if we understand what is haram and what is halal .. that understanding would come if we study ISLAM .. we dont even know why we pray the way we pray .. most of us only do it the way we have seen our fore fathers pray .. this would get out of hand if i continue on this but it would derail the thread so perhaps some other thread sometime .. bottom line for this step ... understand and learn ISLAM .. it would guide us through and out of this nasoor corruption ..

i would continue it some other time .. but these two steps are imperitive for going forward .. i may not go forward, but WE will (inshallah)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 19:11 #
haider3
member

I say, live-to-die, that was well done, you expressed that beautifully! I was bit hesitant when you dealt with our nukes, but even that turned out all right in the end.

Yes, certainly, we are all Pakistanis, wherever we come from and whatever our social background and we just apply the teachings of Islam and tremendous strides are made. I quite agree.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 19:35 #
bsobaid
Member

Real faces of political parties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2011/05/110516_incamera_meeting_analysis_ha.shtml

Just liked I explained in one of my earlier posts...

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/if-necessary-ill-come-back-in-uniform-altaf-hussain#post-205388

"I liken Political parties in Pakistan to young tawaif who in thier young days mistake their customers as lovers and dream of getting married to them. These young tawaifs would do all these customers want to make them happy. Their customers would pay them as much as they want but never want to bring them home to their family. This love (lust) affair continues until the reality dawns on them. Once the tawaif knows of reality it tries to ditch those customers but those powerful customers then want to have them kicked out of kothaa and replace them with new jawan tawaifs and the cycle continues.

MQM is the young tawaif and PPP and N-League are matured tawaifs and I am sure you can make a good guess at the customers.

Hope this explains."

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 20:16 #
NNL
member

Finally a thread that discusses the reality of the situation and studies the cause rather than symptoms.

It has been proven to death the current management system by itself is flawed and democracy has itself never lead to anything good so far.

A massive Purge is needed everyone can see that but what is criteria of the things that need to be purged ?

OFcourse any Atheist will argue for Democracy as a working model but we have seen its flaws and it doesnt help anyone.

Mullah party will say bring Islam in. It has to be based on Islam. ok which Islam your or the 1400yr old one. ?
If you say 1400yr old one then buddy believe you me 99% of the population of Pakistan will be wiped out.

( example Zakat. Shias and Bralvis have authority from Supreme Court to not to pay Zakat to the State. You did be pretty dumb to believe that Abu Bakr Radhi Allah Unhu will let that happen population of Yemen is an attestation to that)

SO which Islam are we discussing ? care to elaborate anyone ?

US's best interest are based on a non existent Pakistan as a powerful China is not in their best interest. Pakistan being the only block in the path to china's defense of sorts.

Secular and Jahil Mullahs are both dangerous to Pakistan.

but hey ppl will spend time on what basta-rds like IK NS Z or the rest of the rats have to say.

The infrastructure of this country has been slowly demolished.
Yet we are sitting in Oblivion.

We are going to be worse than the Palestinians.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 May 2011 21:36 #
sipahi
Member

@Beenai,
"as they say:
.....
but one can not live without hope for a second."

Question is hope with "Whom"?

Living with "hope" from "enemies of Islam" or "Liars & Thieves" is mentally "Living in Hell".

Only "Hope" that should be part of life is "Hope" with Allah SWT accompanied with full individual effort to make things better.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 0:54 #
sipahi
Member

@Khan Sahib

Couple essential fundamental changes are needed for the survival of Pakistan.

1. As an individual Pakistani, we need to get out of the philosophy of "Winning at Any Cost". Values of Islam are paramount.
2. As an individual Pakistani, we need to be ready to sacrifice our interests for betterment of weak Pakistanis.
3. Build islands of goodness based on above principles. It may take generations to have full impact.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 1:40 #
sweettruth
Member

@Khan Sahib

You are over pessimistic about the future of Pakistan. Your analysis of "US invasion of Pakistan" is also incorrect and based on either fear or hatred of USA. You have given even the year of demise which is 2014.

I do agree with rampant corruption of our politicians and Army Generals and what is more alarming for me is if the most powerful and organized institution like Army becomes too corrupt then God knows who will save our country.

You are also right on lack of honesty and national pride; both are in low supply. We need to change our syllabus to teach kids lessons of honesty and love for this country.

No doubt, our country is going down the drain faster than I expected and I blame growing extremism and rise of Salafi, Taliban and Deobandi sects as the biggest threat for Pakistan and hold them responsible for lots of problems we are facing today.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 2:02 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Khan Sahib,

I am sorry to say that your information is wrong. Just to prove it wrong , u said

"
For 534 MNA, the expense for 5 years : Rs. 85,440,000,000 (more than 800 corores)
"

For your kind information that number of MNA's is not 534 , its 342.

That makes whole of this thread nothing but spitting venom against the represenative of masses , a very usual business in pakistan .

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 2:04 #
SufiSoul
Member

10% of Pakistani people are worrying for Pakistan in case US attacks.
Rest of the Pakistanis are living in the Afghanis like situation.
So its clear how much rest of the Pakistanis will worry for LIFE.
Rest of the Pakistanis are having no concern with ATOMIC or any other asset.
They are living with their piece of land and some cattles and having no other concern.
10% of people can observe their future at stake.
So this is not a worrying situation.If we have nukes or not,we have zardari or manmohan as a President.Things will remain the same for common people.So why commonman will react or unhappy???
Your nation are BETTER LIFE ORIENTED.Other things will not matter for them.
Afghans are RELIGION ORIENTED NATION they will never allow any one harm their religion or Faith and will fight till last man.
Case is different when it comes to Pakistan.Majority of Pakistanis will move towards better life and they will accept evry thingand anyone if they think their LIFE will go better.
10% of people will worry abt future of Pakistan rest will never worry for this...
MAJORITY KO ZINDAGI CHAHEYE ZARDARI DE YAMANMOHAN DY YA OBAMA DY YA KOI AUR......

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 2:45 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Further to my previous post, Following is the link to offiical seante website where the act covering the salaries & allowances of parliamentarians is present. (its from 2008 and i couldn't find any newer version )

http://www.senate.gov.pk/Publications/SAL-ALLOW-1974.pdf

First of all , salary of parliamentarian is 15000 per month ( as per 2003 notification) not between 120000 & 200000.

Secondly , no electricity is provided to parliamentarians.

Thirdly , i couldn't find reference to following 2 items as well :
a ) Expense for Constitution per month : Rs.100,000
b ) Office expenditure per month : Rs.140,000

My honourable brother Khan_Sahib copied the information for some ISI-"BAHDUR FAUJ" sponsored website which are there to defame the politicians and hurriedly posted it to show his disgust for masses of pakistan. In his haste , my honourable brother also didn't check the figures.

Its quite unfortunate that most of my honourable colleauges have jumped on the band wagon to thrash the parliamentarins and no one bothered to look / ask for the source of information.

I would be highly obliged if someone especially Khan_Sahib could correct me and provide with an updated source of information.

Just in the end, there is a hadith, translated

"
Its enough for a man to be considered a liar , he spreads rumours
"

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 2:47 #
SufiSoul
Member

Infact majority of us areworrying for deaths like IRAQIS/Pelitanians/chechans etc cuzwe hate DEATHandwant live at any cost.
This fear is the BASIC to all of our this presentday FEAR..
We think of nukes will save our neck so we are worying for nukes.
LAIKIN MARNA THO PARY GA...Pieaces me marna pary ga...Dushmanaagme zinda jala ker bhi maar saktha hy...
Whenever we get ready for death than their isno FEAR,no worry,no tension..
This hating to be killed develops COWARDNESS among the nation and time comes when things need BLOOD of people to save your future generations....
TAJZIYE NAHI BACHA SAKTHY.......DALAIREE BACHA LY GEE.....

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 2:54 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

SufiSoul

Before speaking of chechens, why don't u speak of balochs who are being butchered .

Why u have to go so far ???

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 3:07 #
SufiSoul
Member

For what balouchs are fighting...????

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 3:41 #
sipahi
Member

@ All

When we are going to come out of the mode of "framing everything with a glass of hate"?

Any strategy made with hate as a guiding principle is going to fail.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 3:53 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

SufiSoul

"
For what balouchs are fighting...????
"

Don't u know. Height of arrogance mate. God bless u.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 3:57 #
SufiSoul
Member

really mateiamstillunclear abtbalouchs why they are fighting with govt.????
bugti was the man for money only and wished for his superemacy upon poor balouchs.
Govtwasdealing withhimsince long andthan they get rid of him..

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 4:13 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

SufiSoul

Don't get so excite. At least put some spaces so your message become a bit readable :)

Anyhow , Bugti is just one baloch who got killed .

What about thousands others killed by "BAHDUR FAUJ" and whats about headless corpses found every day even today ??? Whats about thousands missing balochs kidnapped by "BAHDUR FAUJ "

Bugti crime was that he spoke for Dr.Shazia khalid who was raped by "BAHDUR FAUJIs". If u don't remember that what can i say.

U know everything happening around the globe but fall deaf to crys of innocent civilians being butchered next to u .

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 4:29 #
Beenai
Moderator

@sipahi,
yes,i was talking about the hope with Allah.
only Allah can make things better for us now.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 5:28 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@S.Admi,

The purpose of this thread was not to look into specific details about one person corruption but to look into the causes and ways to change the route to our slow death. I did get these figures off the net which may entirely be wrong but than after your attempt to "PROTECT" these so called shareef representatives of our nation, I decided to quote you some figures and facts. The Total number of representative in National Assembly are indeed 342 + 100 members of senate + The state ministers (who are not members) and in the past the number of state ministers + Parliamentary Secretaries which I am not even gonna comment but just to refresh your brains, in Punjab there are 19 Parliamentary Secretaries working along with the ministers and the usual crowd of MPA'S. Now look into this in detail and take off your bias glasses.

Parliamentary Secretary

Salary: 20000/month
Petrol:15000/month
House rent: 20000/month
Daily Allowance: 650/day
Sumptuary allowance: 5000/ month
Traveling Allowance:
Additional traveling allowance: 75000/year
Office maintenance allowance: 10000/Month

Total = 70000/month + daily allowance 650 x20 days= 13000 + Traveling allowance

Grand Total: 83000 + the following allowances

Official car x 2
In case of death: 500000.00 to the family
Free Medical treatment for self, parents and kids.
Business class airfare both in pakistan and abroad
Leave allowance (apart from his salary) when he is on leave equal to his salary. i.e: 20000/month
Free Telephone

http://www.pap.gov.pk/uploads/acts/455.html

PUNJAB MPA'S:

Salary: 10000/month
Petrol:15000/month
House rent: 10000/month
Accommodation allowance: 1500 per day while in session
Daily Allowance: 650/day
Sumptuary allowance: 5000/ month
Traveling Allowance: 5 Rs/KM by car or a business class ticket by air
Additional traveling allowance: 75000/year
Office maintenance allowance: 10000/Month

Total: 50000/month + daily allowance 650 x20 = 13000 + Traveling allowance + 6000/month additional traveling allowances (75000/12)

Grand total approx: 69000 /month + Traveling allowance.

In case of death: 500000.00 to the family
Free Medical treatment for self, parents and kids.
Business class airfare both in pakistan and abroad
Leave allowance (apart from his salary) when he is on leave equal to his salary. i.e: 10000/month
Free Telephone
Free car ( if Chairman of a Committee of Assembly)

http://www.pap.gov.pk/uploads/acts/301.html

MINISTERS:

Salary: 35000/month (39000/month for CM)
Petrol:15000/month
House rent: 20000/month (+Free utility bills)
Daily Allowance: 1000/day
Sumptuary allowance: 10000/ month (20000 for CM)
Traveling Allowance:
Additional traveling allowance: 75000/year
Office maintenance allowance: 10000/Month
Equipment Allowance: 10000 once off (30000 for the CM)

In case of death: 500000.00 to the family
Free Medical treatment for self, parents and kids.
Business class airfare both in pakistan and abroad with wife and 2 servants in lower air class.
Leave allowance (apart from his salary): 35000/month (39000 for CM)
Free Telephone (2 at office and 2 at residence)
Duty free car
Provident fund
ability to withdraw his salary in foreign currency when abroad
Discretionary grants: 300000/year

http://www.pap.gov.pk/uploads/acts/313.html

For the allowances of Punjabi Advisors:

http://www.pap.gov.pk/uploads/acts/458.html

For Allowances of Special assistants:

http://www.pap.gov.pk/uploads/acts/457.html

SOURCE:

http://www.pap.gov.pk/index.php/acts/bycat/en/9/23

TOTAL 371 MPA'S

371 X 69000 = 25599000 x 12 months = 307188000 / year

This is the official allowances/salaries of 371 individuals in Punjab assembly only excluding the travel allowances, medical bills, air tickets and the funds each member gets for their constituency (never used for general public benefit most of the cases) + the corruption, kick backs they receive.

I apologize to break your angel's halo you seen on these representatives head but for me they are the sum of all corruption and the origin.

As I have no intention to further dig into this angle, I would emphasize to look into the root causes and also ways, suggestions of improving the situation if at all.

I will come to the rest of the bloggers view point a bit later.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:26 #
SufiSoul
Member

SA,
sorry for the spaces.
I have to tell that fighting just for the GOOD LIFE will suffer balouchs more and more.
The ultimate aim of balouchs is to fight for money and at any costs they want defeat pakistan this aim can be achieved through peacefull manners.
Balouch never raised against bugti which keep them hand to mouth and was enjoying all the benefits alone.But they never and were happy living under bugtis rule for decades.I will insist over cause and aim of any upraising that should be nobel fighting for bugti and money will leave them inend to hell...
Rest of the Pakistanis are fear DEATH and now crying for ALLAH's help.This is time to join hands against EVIL and accept deaths as honour no fear will left over them..For whome JANNAH is created???? for those who LOVE death for a NOBEL cause.....
Cry wont help now learn something new,open QURANand get the guidelines during cruicial moments you will be satisfied..
For how long we wish to live here in this world.?????

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 17:59 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 5:21 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Khan_Sahib

"
While at the same time, our MNA's get 50000 units of electricity free as per their allowance which is a simple math.

50000 units x 12 = 600000 per MNA = (@of 15 paisa per unit average) Costs RS. 9300000 per year per MNA. (Per unit price range from 10 paisa to 23 paisa) while at the same time these MNA's enjoy

Ø Monthly Salary : Rs. 120,000 to 200,000

"

In your opening post u mentioned MNA's and now u have come done to MPA's.

First u need to explain where did u get the figure of 534 MNA ?

Secondly , u gave the figure of salary for 120k to 200k per month ?

Even in your second post , u couldn't give any such reference.

Thirdly , u claimed that members are provided with electricity free.

in your second post , u haven't provided any such link which challenges that.

Bahi meeray ,

Instead of doing mud slugging based on false information and then protecting that , please accept that u have un-intentionally misled the forum with wrong information which even now , u can't defend.

And for your kind knowledge, a parliamentary secretary or state minister is also member of parliament . Only advisers to PM ( maximum of 5 as per constituion) can be non-members.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 5:47 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@Shareef Admi,

You intentionally didn't read the opening para of my reply. Try again !
It's not difficult English.

The Purpose of this ..............

Also my last reply has adequate information to give you some idea about the millions of tax payers money going to these good for nothing members.

And Average MPA gets on an average 90000 per month which in case of MNA is obviously more than 120000 Plus the travel expenses which include business class air travel and MPA/MNA hostel expenses taking their monthly expenses over 200000 per month. This excludes the funds which they get and which are used for their personal gains.
I am not here to prove the innocence of your leaders but if you care to come to the root cause of the discussion rather than protecting your corrupt and spineless leaders.

Also if you know any MPA or MNA, please do talk to him or her and you will know that its a tip of the iceberg. I have few MNA's. MPA's and Senators in my immediate family and on an average one Senator pays 50000000 to get a senator seat. Do you really think that if he pays this amount, he is going to serve shareef people like you? ha!

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 6:06 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

KHAN_SAHIB

I thought that u have un-intentionally propogated the false informatoin but now it seems obvious with your insistense that u r intentionally lying.

I have contested your lies with the relevant facts and figures and instead of replying to those u r telling me about your family mna/mpas and salaries of MPAs .

U claim to be a good muslim . haven't u heard the hadith which menas

"
Aaadmi kaay jhoota honey kaa liye itna hi kafi haai kaa woh sunni sunaai baat aagey biyan kar daeey
"

u didn't bother to check a simple thing that number of parliamentains is no where the number u stated but still insisting on your info. Mashaallah , kiyaa aala miyaar haai.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 7:42 #
scandinavian
Member

@"Sharif"admi

Are you in any way doubting that generally our leaders (MNA's, MPA's, generals etc.) are enjoying life while the awam is suffering?

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 9:30 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Khan Saheb

Payment is the right of a deserving person. Wherever we work, we have to render our services in proportion to the amounts we are paid. The perks and privileges are the rights of the parliament members, if they render their services in proportion to their emoluments. The problem is that either there is no output or it is too hidden about of parliamentarians. Naturally, we don't elect them to facilitate them with perks and privileges without any output.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 9:38 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Scandinavian

I m just contesting the false information being presented to ridiculate a particular segment of society.

And btw not only generals , the whole of BAHDUR FAUJ enjoys perks .

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 10:11 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

It is indeed the right of a deserving person to be paid in accordance with his performance. In the case of our parliamentarians, payments seem to be mostly unjustified. The question arises."What output they are giving to the nation?".

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 10:57 #
shafiq12
member

Sharif Aadmi...

I know "Bahdure Fauj" is disgrace of "Sharif Aadmis"..... Every Sharif Aadmi curses Army in 70 time a Day..... ;)

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 11:01 #

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