PKPolitics Discuss » Future of Pakistan

Democracy Has Failed Again In Pakistan

(46 posts)
  1. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Democracy always failed in Pakistan. Now, the present government is also going to complete its tenure after heavy failures. Some of the reasons for failure of democracy in Pakistan may be:

    1) Feudalism : Every election brings feudal criminals in our parliaments. When these criminal feudal people take the reins of the country, they demonstrate their criminal minds and start committing crimes under the protection of the government agencies.

    2) Low Literacy: Illiterate people are simple driven to the polling stations to cast their votes in the favour of their respective master.

    3) Poor Judiciary: Poor colonial style judiciary can control anything and just let the elected criminals commit their crimes.

    Posted 8 months ago on 24 Sep 2011 19:13 #
  2. saladin89
    Member

    There never was democracy in Pakistan, 45% jaali votes and jageedar influence. And even if there will be in future, and the result is either PPP and PML N, then I say democracy can be flushed into the toilet.

    Posted 8 months ago on 24 Sep 2011 20:26 #
  3. Jutt kharak
    Member

    Democray is a way of Governing a country.. Where our rights as citizen are equal to all others. Where no One Army General rules and uses his whims to safegaurd his future rather than the nation's future. I hope we understand the distinction.

    There is no better alternative. Democracy can not ,for example, create a corruption free society. It can not make parents send all their children to school, including Girls. It can not get rid of loadshedding. It also can not force us to vote for honest people. But it provides us the opportunity to do so. We have to do it. We have failed the concept of Democracy and blaming it for all our ills shows a complete lack of understanding of how a society should be governed.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 1:41 #
  4. saladin89
    Member

    @jutt kharak

    Democracy is a way governing a country through the votes of people. Now if the people vote in a leader who is corrupt and incomepetant, then that does not mean that all citizens will be equal, in fact we can see a glimpse of the system which has brought the likes of N$ and Mr 10%.

    Now concerning an army genreal, if he has the capability to govern he then can bring a system where people are equal. It seems the point u made was that army leader is bad and our so called elceted politicians are better.

    In the case of Pakistan a lot are saying that GM time was better than now. Not that I am saying GM was a good leader, but compared to the crap there is, he may be seen a little better.

    Again concerning your second paragraph. If we for example choose a leader through democracy, then he has the power to change Pakistan for the better, whether that is concerning education, corruption where laws are put in place to tackle the problem or any other ills in our country.

    What Pakistan lacks is a leader who cares for it's people, and is willing to put in the hard work to change this rotten state we are in. Be it through democracy or army, if the individual has the ability than he has a good chance of being successful.

    The other problem which has been with Pakistan is the awam. Time and time again they have backed these corrupt leaders, they are still many that keep on backing these shameproof leaders.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 2:41 #
  5. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The myth 'The worst democracy is better than a martial law' seems to be incorrect. During the army rule, Pakistan was ruled by corrupt generals, whereas, in the democratic governments, Pakistan was ruled by criminals. Most of the parliamentarians of the present government have lengthy criminal records.

    Are not corrupt generals better than criminal democratic politicians?

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 4:32 #
  6. Democracy is a problem in itself.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 4:34 #
  7. sultanalikhan
    Member

    @Hussain Farooqui....in response to your post, here are my views:

    1. Democracy never failed in Pakistan because democracy never was in practice, not in its true form...however pseudo-political parties used the name of democracy to grab power and then rule poor masses king-style...with the exception of a few, majority of political parties do not implement democratic norms (no election in their parties, no workers' convention, no open debate etc) in their own folds, then how come we expect them to be democratic when reigning the country?

    2. With 3 crore & 70 lacs votes being officially declared as bogus, and the level of rigging that has become the part & parcel of our election system, how can we blame poor classes for voting wrongly? Yes, literacy is one of the problems of Pak but this doesn't mean that masses don't have brain....People cannot be blamed for the crimes they have no role in committing, blame lies somewhere else. In my humble view poor masses know much more and better than our educated class, which does not contribute anything significant except to sit in their cosy abodes and criticize each and every thing they watch on tv or read in glossy magazines.......

    3. Dumping everything on judiciary is neither fair nor wise. Judiciary can do as much to point where the problems lie, which it has been doing fairly good. If the other organs of govt are not performing their vested roles then how can one blame judiciary?

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 6:36 #
  8. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    SAK

    True that there are no democratic traditions within political parties. Many of the parties have hereditary system of power transfer. This hereditary trend has forced Zardari to change the name of his son. Zardari had to prove that his son is a heir of Bhutto.

    Judiciary is very important institution in every civilized society. Judiciary was given full independence in Malaysia from the inception of independence. Honest and strong judiciary was established in Malaysia and then it was given full powers. Pakistan never had honest and independent judiciary.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 12:50 #
  9. sultanalikhan
    Member

    @Hussain Farooqui.....with one slight exception, I agree to all your points....

    bro you conveniently forgot to mention Mahater Mohammed who actually turned the whole country around....I don't think he impeded judiciary's way like our stalwarts are doing...

    whether we have got an independent judiciary or not is another debate but I know this much that this current one is much better and bolder than its predecessors....

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 13:10 #
  10. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    SAK

    The problem is that our judicial system is what we inherited from our colonial masters. The colonial judicial system was naturally not structured to provide justice to the common people. It was structured to protect the interests of the colonial masters. In the British regime, mass scale riots erupted in Bihar when the judiciary favoured the criminals in the government's interests. The Muslims were the victims of the politically backed criminals.

    The people who are the parts of the existing judiciary will never change this colonial system as it is in their wide interest to maintain the same system. Present judiciary has made some minor changes. Minor changes can't give any relief to the general public.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 13:25 #
  11. sultanalikhan
    Member

    Don't you think 64-year is a bit too long a span of time that we have been indulging in blaming British for our own created woes???

    China and Malaysia too were ruled by British once, weren't they? Look where they are now??

    Mind you it is the leadership that takes the country to places, judiciary plays only a part. Hence I would say your frustration is misdirected!!!

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 13:35 #
  12. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    SAK

    China and Malaysia discarded the colonial systems whereas it is still existent in Pakistan. Most of our institutions are just the followers of their colonial masters. Gora Saheb left the country 64 years ago but Kala Saheb is still ruling on his behalf.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 13:43 #
  13. sultanalikhan
    Member

    @HF....when you say China and Malaysia discarded the colonial system do you mean Mao and Mahater or these countries' judiciaries??

    Will you be more specific please??

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 13:45 #
  14. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    China revolution bulldozed all the previous systems and established their civil service, judiciary, education and army on totally new lines.

    Tunko Abdur Rehman dominated the civil service and judiciary of the princely states of Malaysia over the British left civil service and judiciary. The civil service and judiciary of the princely states were appointed by the Sultans to serve their people, so they had a totally different temperament.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 13:57 #
  15. sultanalikhan
    Member

    @Hussain Farooqui.....you did not answer my simple question, that was, whether it was judiciary or leadership that broke away from colonial past?

    China revolution led by Mao, right? He was not a judge, or was he?

    Same goes for Malaysia, or any other country for that matter.

    Now I got to go, talk you later!!!!

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 14:03 #
  16. Rizwan Qaimkhani
    Member

    SAK
    Don't you think 64-year is a bit too long a span of time that we have been indulging in blaming British for our own created woes???

    We still have the same single primary railway line for that many years so why not the judiciary system, penal code, army configuration, enemies, financial problems etc.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 15:00 #
  17. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    SAK

    Any society that has no perfect system of justice is supposed to be in a state of anarchy. Mao and Tuku Abdur Rehman revamped all the institutions of their countries after independence and let a rule of law prevail over the country. Unfortunately, we did not revamp any institutions and just let the colonial systems work. We need to revamp all our system. The colonial systems are not meant for serving the public. The British established these institutions just to facilitate their colonial rule.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 15:20 #
  18. spruce
    Member

    Democracy is not failed but it is victim of so called loathing mafia in opposition, govt to take the shelter of power and do what they wish including establishment, judiciary.

    If there is govt of xyz party then all the mafia who hate the party allow their supporters in administration to commit crime, corruption everything against govt to fail them before their time period but they never thought by doing so they are not only harm the party but future of Pakistan. Rather then they force the wrongdoing of govt they are sharing part of evil acts to cause failure of democracy.

    Once again I shall force on the point which is responsibility of each and every citizen that don’t blame on any one party who lead small number of illiterate people and put all blame on them. We should be fair to realize that we have educated community who is not playing a rule which is main reason of failure, most of the communities with good education brought leaders whose profession crimes like extortion, kidnappings, blackmailing, killing, physical assault, torture and similar.

    Since we don’t decide fairly and positively, have no courage to isolate ourselves from criminal minded politicians available in all political parties, establishment and judiciary system and just taking one side to support the party whom we love with all their dirt activities and blaming on opponents is not a solution to think for the prosperity, harmony of Pakistan.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 15:41 #
  19. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Irshad

    Some of the points expressed by you are very valid. Let us try to be more analytical.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 15:46 #
  20. Rizwan Qaimkhani
    Member

    'That educated community' hands were tied by tyrannical rulers Ayub and Bhutto. Go, lash at their graves and leave us alone from your blame game. You, your mazloom culture and your attitude of entitlement are the biggest problems for Pakistan's growth and its positive future.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 16:18 #
  21. spruce
    Member

    @RQK

    (((('That educated community' hands were tied by tyrannical rulers Ayub and Bhutto:::)

    Then where is solution?

    if someone do wrong and same wrong doing done by all of us, then who will lead the nation towards path of prosperity.
    As a human no one meets thoughts of others, at least contributing good things will stop others bad actions.

    Here we are discussing democracy. as a nation what is responsibility, rule of every individual.

    If I am supporting some one with all dirt actions same will all do then better not to think good for Pakistan, future generation.

    Then let us all be without clothes in the same toilet and stop blaming each other.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 16:46 #
  22. spruce
    Member

    @RQK
    it is not 70's dark era with one television network of PTV, now you are living in 2011 and more the 200 television network are exposing wrong doings of politicians with the help of public. They may be educated or uneducated community but they have awareness of their rights and some of them using peaceful voice and others such as educated community choosed the path of crimes like extortion, kidnappings, blackmailing, killing, physical assault, torture cells. if you compare them with illiterate community still uneducated are better then them because educated makes u perfact,civilized,humanitarian.these things can be found in illiterate community and they believe in contentment, endurance ,love and peace .and they believe in prosperity and harmony of Pakistan.

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 17:53 #
  23. secularists
    Member

    No it hasnt. Let the elections come, let the people re-evaluate their decision, and then start crying wolf!

    Posted 8 months ago on 25 Sep 2011 22:25 #
  24. sultanalikhan
    Member

    @Hussain Farooqui.....rather than beating about the bushes and quoting irrelevant long quotes from history, just name one single country in the whole wide world where judiciary had brought about democracy or led masses?

    Why it is so hard for you to get it that it is always the leader of masses and not the judges who set the course of a country and nation? Be they dictators, tyrants, kings, revolutionaries, generals or elected representatives, but never judges!!!

    Judiciary is there in secondary role. Once the constitution is promulgated, laws are made and lines of regulations are drawn, Judiciary plays its role of protecting those constitutional rights of people that are enacted by an elected parliament or by tsars/shahs/tyranical edicts.

    Any which way you look at it, you will never find judiciary leading people but its role is to protect the rights of people as specified in the constitution!!!!

    @Rizwan Q.....to be honest to say, upon seeing the result of our leadership's performances (MA Jinnah being the only exception) since 1947, I have no shame in admitting that the rule of British Raj was far better than what has been since they have left....

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 5:28 #
  25. spruce
    Member

    Why we blame on people who vote for ppp in rural Pakistan, the reason is that people are ready to vote each party but other parties like MQM, PML-N created distances from them by hating and calling them illiterate, clatter such slogan left people with no choice but to vote for ppp.

    I remember last election MQM fought from hala in the city of makhdoom amin faheem and MQM received 10,000 votes this means people want vote to other parties but the problem they have no interest to serve the people of those areas.

    If you will take a record of ppp they have done a lot despite the enormous opposition from politicians and establishment to stop them helping the poor people of Pakistan.

    Electricity was supplied to 4 thousand Villages in twenty months in Pakistan including Sindh. (1988-90)
    • Electricity supplied to more than 12 lac houses including Sindh 50000 loans for poor people to make small business1988-90)
    • women’s banks1988-90)
    • Admission and bed fees forced upon during Zia’s regime were abolished benefiting all poor Pakistanis. 1988-90)
    •Fifty thousand new teachers were employed in Pakistan. 1988-90)
    Education made compulsory up to 8th class. 1988-90)
    •80 thousands new literacy centers were set up throughout the country. 1988-90)
    •Ten thousands young people were given loans of 50 thousands each to start their own businesses. (1993-96)
    •Very first time a separate ministry for women affairs was established to solve their problems. (1993-96)
    • Women Bank was established. (1993-96)
    • Women were given loan facility to start their own businesses. (1993-96)
    • Computer centers for women were started in Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad(1993-96)
    •Port Qasim was extended in Sindh(1993-96)
    • Built 21,000 primary schools in Pakistan (1993-96)
    • Electricity to 18,000 villages.in Pakistan including Sindh (1993-96)
    • Airport at Sehwan Sharif. (1993-96)
    • Work on Ketti Bandar Port started. (1993-96)
    • Five percent quota in for women in Employment was fixed in all Government departments. (1993-96)
    • 6. Crisis Centre for Women in distress. – The Government set-up “Crisis Centres for women in Distress” in Islamabad and at Vehari. These were pilot projects which aimed at providing medical and legal aid to the women victims of violence. (1993-96)
    • Establishment of Hostel for Working Women at Gujranwala, Lahore, Hyderabad, Sukkur, and Quetta. . (1993-96)
    • Rearing and Development of Silk Worm Realing and Weaving of Silk Thread for Rural Women in Sindh. (1993-96)
    • Centre of Excellence for Women Studies Islamabad, Karachi, Quetta and Peshawar. (1993-96)
    • Current ppp have managed an NFC Award; and all provinces are receiving their rights equally.
    • Managed to reach out to Baluchistan;
    • managed to pass the some meaningful legislation, such as the Organ Donors Act.
    • Politics of reconciliation and no political victimization (Current Government)
    • A unanimously adopted NFC award and abolition of concurrent list ( current Govt)
    • Ouster of General in a peaceful manner (Current Government)
    •.Benazir income support program (current government)
    • First time poverty survey for the welfare of downtrodden people in the history of Pakistan (Current Government)
    • Reinstatement of politically victimized employees( Current Government)
    • Free and independent Judiciary (Current Government)
    • Chairman Accountability committee from opposition (Current Government)
    • President surrendered his power first time in the constitutional history of Pakistan (Current Government)
    • Operation in Swat and Waziristan against terrorists (Current Government)
    • Powerful and independent parliament (Current Government)
    • Empowering the workers through Employees Stock Schemes and Worker unions
    • Encouraging youth through lifting ban on student unions.

    The present PPP-led government restored the 1973 Constitution through the 18th Amendment, took the terrorists head on, launched Benazir Income Support Programme (BISP) to alleviate poverty and empower women, made workers share holders in the state run enterprises, introduced far-reaching political reforms in Gilgit-Baltistan (GB), announced far reaching reforms in the Tribal Areas and extricated the country out of near economic meltdown.
    “These are no small achievements for any political party that does not have a parliamentary majority let alone a majority needed for amendments in the Constitution,” he said and asked the party office bearers to educate the people of Pakistan and especially the PPP workers about these great achievements. No matter what the detractors may say or do, Bhuttoism will continue to empower the people and extricate them from deprivation and despondency, he said. Zardari also paid glowing tribute to the party workers for their steadfastness and sacrifices.

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 7:08 #
  26. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    SAK

    In all the civilized countries, judicial decisions always prevail over the situations. In the recent history of Pakistan, lawyers took the law into their hands with high claims of restoring or rather restructuring the judicial system to provide cheap and quick justice to the people. What is the outcome of such a big drama? Wasn't is a simple fraud with the general public?

    Our judiciary is full of corruption. Murderers, robbers, frauds can simple pay bribes through their lawyers and buy justice in their favour.

    How can democracy be established in a society like this?

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 7:13 #
  27. Democracy will keep on failing...because it is an un-islamic illogical and evil system:

    The following ahadees makes it very clear:

    Two ahadith from Sahih Muslim:

    Reported on the authority of 'Abd al-Rahman bin Samura who said: The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said to me: 'Abd al-Rahman, do not ask for a position of authority, for if you are granted this position as a result of your asking for it, you will be left alone (without the help of Allaah to discharge the responsibilities attendant thereon), and if you are granted it without making any request for it, you will be helped (by Allaah in the discharge of your duties).

    Narrated by Abu Musa who said: Two of my cousins and I entered the apartment of the Prophet (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam). One of them said: Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam), appoint us rulers of some lands that the Almighty and Glorious Allaah has entrusted to your care. The other also said something similar. He (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam)said: We do not appoint to this position one who asks for it nor anyone who is eager for possessing it.

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 7:21 #
  28. sultanalikhan
    Member

    @hussain farooqui....I am convinced you are intentionally ignoring my straightforward question because you know there is no valid answer to that....

    What lawyers' movement did or how corrupt the judiciary is bears little significance on the subject matter....

    I keep on asking you who leads the nation and who sets a country on course of prosperity and development and you keep on bashing judiciary and judges......it seems as if your needle got stuck to the track on an old record.....Move on from and beyond judiciary please!!!

    I think I have said what I wanted to; hence I will now keep quiet as I don't see any point in moving in circles...

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 7:38 #
  29. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    SAK

    All the functions in a civilized society are monitored and controlled by a strong judiciary. When nobody has any fear of being checked by justice, then anybody can commit any disorders. In the history of civilized countries, no. of state heads were expelled from their positions through the systems of justice. Presently, the French President is facing a similar situation. President Nixon of America was expelled from his position because of the system of justice.

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 8:14 #
  30. shafiq12
    member

    hussain farooqui

    Is there any civilzed society around which we should take as an example -- If there is please tell which society

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 8:25 #
  31. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    SAK is right that the judiciary itself cannot make a big difference n it's own! You are forgetting that it can only happen IF the lawmakers back up the judiciary's INDEPENDENT role and ensure that there is a check an balance. In Pakistan the lawmakers are the biggest LAW-BREAKERS! Hence they cannot ask for or expect anybody else to follow suit. For a nation it is VITAL that the lawmakers set an example themselves in all aspects of obeying the law right from paying taxes to any criminal trial!

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 8:28 #
  32. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Scandinavian

    Now only one political party of the parties who supported the judiciary is mainly in power. The judiciary still has the back of all other political parties. Why can't the judiciary fulfil the commitments made to the public with the help of other political parties? Why were the public shown Sabbaz Baghs during their fraud movement? What was the motive behind restoring a useless and helpless judiciary on the cost of hundreds of lives and billions of rupees?

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 8:52 #
  33. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    "Now only one political party of the parties who supported the judiciary is mainly in power."

    That is a new information....for me at least. Which ruling parties support a FREE and INDEPENDENT judiciary and what have they done to achieve that?

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 9:04 #
  34. scandinavian
    Member

    @HF

    You are contradicting yourself.
    In another thread you write:

    "The general public had high hopes from judiciary, but it disappointed the public very badly. You are right to state that the present judiciary is a totally politicized judiciary. It is now supposed to cover the interests of its supporting politicians.

    POSTED 42 MINUTES AGO ON 26 SEP 2011 8:21"

    Link: http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/imran-khan-is-not-the-%E2%80%9Clast-hope%E2%80%9D-rather-it-is-imran%E2%80%99s-last-hope-to-get-to-power#post-264151

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 9:06 #
  35. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Lawyers' movement was indeed a liars' movement. It was one of the biggest frauds played in the history of Pakistan with the innocent public. Most of the politicians being fraudulent themselves, supported the fraud movement for their political objectives.

    Posted 8 months ago on 26 Sep 2011 9:54 #
  36. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The present democratic regime is closely headed towards the completion of its tenure. Let us analyse what is really the outcome of this present democratic revenge? Mr. Two Surnames describes through his mother's words that democracy is the best revenge.

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 6:46 #
  37. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    HF,

    The failure of government in delievering doesn't mean that system has failed.

    We have practicied Martial law for 30/35 years and at length for 10-11 years in a row. What they delievered ? Herior , AK47 , Afghanis ?? Waht else or break up of pakistan ???

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 9:23 #
  38. Respect
    Member

    There was never democracy in the first place so we have not lost any thing.

    45% bogus votes results in an unrepresentative parliament.

    and if democracy brings the likes of nawaz sharif and his brother zardari then it definitely has failed.

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 9:49 #
  39. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Respect

    There were no bogus votes.

    To be registered in NADRA was not a requirement as per law in 2008 . And these votes were included in rolls on the order of SC so who could they be bogus ??

    And if for argument sake if there were any bogus votes, is deomocracy responsible for that or BAHDUR FAUJ which was ruleing the country for 10 yrs ??

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 9:54 #
  40. Respect
    Member

    @sharif aadmi
    give it a break sharif aadmi, please for goodness ache. 45% bogus votes and the main beneficiries were PPP and noon league.

    Now go and sue dunya news

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jSBxW3rxg_M#t=11s

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 9:58 #
  41. Respect
    Member

    2012 recent, if u thought they had changed

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 10:00 #
  42. Respect
    Member

    Are these all lies

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 10:01 #
  43. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Respect bahi,

    Please stop this crap of bogus votes. Please show me a notficaition / order which required that a voter should have a NADRA record ??

    In fact , election commision removed these votes on teh basis of NADRA in 2007 and then a writ petition was filed by BB in SC . A bench of two judged headed by CJ , Iftikhar Ch. ordered that these voets to be added in voters list.

    Now , tell me that how tehse are bogus votes ? Please qutoe the relevant law ?

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 10:06 #
  44. blacksheep
    Member

    جو حضرات یہاں جمہوریت کے ناکام ہونے پر اپنا زورِ بیان صَرف کر رہے ہیں ان کو چاہئے کہ اگر جمہوریت اتنی بری طرح ناکام ہوچکی ہے تو وہ حضرات کوئی اور طریقہ بتادیں۔۔۔۔۔۔

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 11:42 #
  45. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    blacksheep ,

    Khalifat haai naa :)

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 11:59 #
  46. blacksheep
    Member

    Khalifat haai naa :)

    خلافت۔۔۔۔۔۔ بس نام ہی کافی ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔
    ;-) :-) ;-)

    Posted 5 days ago on 19 May 2012 12:21 #

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