raheb
Member
" Democracy is a System in which heads are counted NOT weight".
These are words of Allama Iqbal about western democracy. We even critisized it in many of his poems.
What you 'democracy lover' say about it?
And I use to say, " If 6 donkeys decide to eat ****, 5 horses will be forced to do so, because of quatity.
raheb
raheb
Member
On second line, I meant "He" the Iqbal who critisized it, not we as I wrote there.
raheb
azeem1
Member
@raheb
now some golden words from the true democrats.
democracy is the best revenge - BB (by the way it is revenge from people).
my foot democracy.
Why the Qauid-i-Azam didn't act upon Allma Iqbal's advice?
Both of our great leaders completed their education in England, a Democratic country, where the Parliament is considered as mother of all the Parliaments.
Revivalist
member
JS
Why Jinnah did not act upon the advice of Dr. Iqbal is an irrelevant Question and needs to be asked from Jinnah. However Jinnah wanted a secular state and he himself was a secular person. For us as Muslims both Dr. Iqbal and Jinnah are not the sources rather we should compare them and what they said to Islam, if they said things compatible to Islam we should accept it and if contradicts Islam we should reject it.
Regards
faraz81
Member
@revivalist
the vary concept that jinnah is a secular person is a ill minded statement.the person who has gone throught the sayings of jinnah can find it easily out that jinnah wanted the state based on quranic rules,this concept of jinnah is given by the so called fundamentalists (mullas)bcoz pakistan was not the wish of mullas,they wanted to stay along hindus and according to these mulas this was also according to islam.how stupid!
and now these mullas want the command of pakistan,how intelligent.i ask such people,why dont u get a separate country to practice islam like jinnah did? the answer is,these mullas cant achieve anything bcoz they have no unity and they are satisfy by staying in mosques and issuing fatwas.
democracy itself is not a bad concept but first we have to islamise this concept.with this i want to say that every concept of humans should go through the Allah's teachings then we as mulsim can practice according to that concept.otherwise we cant get a 100% fit system,for example,we can see from history that kingship was also a successful system till a specific time,but now it is dominated by democracy..but nobody can give any guarantee that democracy will have an eternal success and we see now europe is going towards the social democracy and after sometime they will reject the present democracy.so myself i dont find democracy a fit system but it is a better system among the present systems in the world.as muslims it was our duty to give the world a peaceful n successful system but alas we r nowhere in the world. wat we r doing is crying for khilafah khilafah but dont have the idea of the right teachings of islam,so how can we bring any islamic system when we dont know the basics of islam.
Democracy is a system..which has its own plus and minus like any other systems of rule.
a country needs to modify his concept of Democracy according to its circumstances.
for example...every country has same Make and brands of cars but have different rules of driving according to thier country ...right hand steering wheel ..left hand steering wheel....and many other things ...a Pakistani who has been a good driver in Pakistan ,hardly pass driving test in a euaropean country.
same goes with democracy.\
we have got the universal tools of democracy like General elections ,upper house & lower house of parliament,provincial Govts ,local set ups ,district set ups ...
a PM as cheif executive of the country elected by public ...
a head of the state as President and his representatives at provincial set ups as Governers ....
but ...we have to use these tools according to our own circumstances.
i.e ..we have a majority of illtrates ..ratio is 40,60 between litrate and illtartes .
so technically speaking 60% ignorants decision has to b accepted by the 40% litrates.
we have an agriculture set up...where all Jageerdars,Maliks,Waderas,Sardars are into politics and thier poor Mazarah ,kissans and Haris are forced to vote only them and thier generations ....they cant make a choice out of thier own wish.
so if Ratudero always selects Bhuttos and Bhuttos that doesnt mean they r doing great for Ratu Dero.
if Farooq Laghari and his son always get elected thats the result of bonded labourers votes not thier popularity.
a newspaper report reveals a very interesting fact...
PPP is the largest party but it has the votes of illtrates of the country.
PML N is the second largest but it has got the votes of litrates living in cities of Punjab.................................................
PPP in karachi.....???
PPP in lahore......????
PPP in Islamabad..???
PPP in Rawalpindi..???(not even after the murder of BB in Liaqat Bagh)
PPP in Sialkot..???
PPP in Hyderabaad..???
PPP in Faisalabaad..????
PPP is no where in the cities .
it has no vote of confidence from litrate,aware,cultured,educated ,well informed ppl.
thats the result of that un altered democracy that a corrupt matric pass is the head of the state...
conclusion
i have got a readymade suit for Eid ...becoz the cuts and look were awesome ..i cudnt get it by my own tailor but i have to give it to my tailor to alter it to my size ...otherwise the whole look of the dress wud b damaged .........
Democracy is a ready made suit with great cuts and color .
but we have to get ot altered according to our circumstances.
faraz81
Member
thanks beenai,its the exact explanatin for my concept of islamisation of democracy/systems.and it is valid even for dictatorship/caliphate as well.
Revivalist
member
Dear Beenai I think there is some confusion in the term democracy it self and how you define it. If democracy to you is just a method of electing a person then there is no problem in it, although it’s wrong understanding of Democracy. So could you please define what democracy in simple worlds is? Besides the example of suite is very good but it doesn’t fits here to compare democracy with Khilafah. In fact the suite democracy offers it a mini skirt in which a Muslimah can not cover her awrah, so its not an Islamic dress and needs to be replaced with an Islamic one.
Dear faraz, why do you feel the need to Islamize Kufr despite of the fact that you have a detailed ruling system in your own ideology, Islam????? Why didn’t our prophet (saw) adopt the system of the superpowers of his time .i.e. Rome and Persia, as they were much developed then the society of Maka and medina???
Regards
Dear Revivalist
Here i would not agree with you. There are many things in Democracy which are evolved with the development of Mankind. There is lot of brain wok involved in this whole process which you could not throw simply by calling it Kufar. Lemme give you some examples.
The first is the selection of Khalifa. You could not adopt the system now which was adopted in the selection of first four caliphs. At that time already grading Between Sahabs existed, so the selection was easy but no such grading exists now. So you have to go for the election this time and this process is evolved in democracy and this could never be declared Haram in Islam.
The system of lower house and upper house is one more beautiful gift of democracy which you could not simply ignore. You just have to put a restriction that no law would be made be the parliment which is against Quran and Sunnah and every law made by the parliment would be challenge-able in the court if that is found against Quran and Sunnah. Please tell me if even this is against Islam.
The system of Judiciary and law implementation departments (police) is evolved with the time so its one more gift which you could not throw away (although this is not working well even in many democratic countries). You just have to put the restriction that Judiciary would have to act as a custodian of Islamic hudoods.
Similarly the process of terms and re-elections, although this is never followed by muslims but its also not forbidden. Show me one hadith which says that Khalifa has to stay there until his death.
Mohtarma Beenai,
If we go by your logic that PML-N has got votes of literate people then
Karachi is the most literate city in Pakistan but u don't respect the mandate of Karachi ?
Btw , democracy doesn't differentiate between literate and illeterate . If u go into this differentiation than its hypocracy not democracy.
@Janab e aali askhan sahib,
karachities are most litrate but unfortunately being badly trapped by a mafia .
no2. the votes were be given by the angels as no one came out of his home to vote .
thats why MQM got 140% votes...means every 140 out of 100 ppl voted for MQM .
the ppl who has died ,voted for MQM or kids who havent born yet ,voted for MQM .
its the hieght of popularity ...i must say .
but thats not democracy .
in my office only ,many MQM lovers claim while laughing that they voted 14 to 15 times a day ......great ...internatioanl observers who were there to observe the transparency of the election 2008 ,were also compalined about a mass level rigging in karachi..go to papers archieve and check it out plz.
@Dear Revivalist bhai ,
i dont remember in which thread i asked u simple questions about ur idea of islamic revolution and best candidate in the present avilable slot of religious leaders ,for us ,who can lead us to islamic revolution ???but u never ansewred .
i dono ...weather u have no answer ..or we have no such leader...
anyways ...
i dont think Democracy s basic concept clashes with islam ...
although my knowldge about it is quite limited ...
but i know that for sure that islam do favors majority consensus.
there was one Khalifa to rule the Govt but he use to have his Gorveroners in different cities and he use to have a Majlis Shuura ,to b consulted while taking decisions .
@ Mohtarama Beenai Sahiba ,
Give the proof in which constitunecy the turnover was 140% ?
Go to ecp website and look for top 20 consittuencies. In top 10 there is no one from karachi and in top 20 there r 2 or 3 from karachi but none has turnout of more than 80% in whole pakistan.
So u r a liar.
@Beenai ,
MQM has been winnign since 1987 . Even through the worst times on 90's when whole state machinary was against it. U don't accept it . But since u r a democrat.
U should label yourself as hypocrate instead of democrat.
following is consitunecy wise vote cast ratio from ECP website for karachi.
239 37
240 47
241 55
242 60
243 58
244 64
245 49
246 63
247 60
248 30
249 47
250 30
251 40
252 42
253 39
254 50
255 58
256 45
257 48
258 41
Can somebody show me where is 140% turnout ?
A bibi , named beenai , who has got some extra ordinary beenai claims that in karachi there is turnover of 140% . I don't have time otherwise there is polling station wise result is also availabe on EcP website.
Any comments ? i don't want to say anything harsh but we shouldn't be levying unsubstantiated allegations. They come under category of gross lies.
For Analysis purposes also look at these districts from Punjab
1- Pindi
2- Chakwal
3- Sialkot
4- Madi Bahu ud din
5- Khushab
6- Sheikhpura
7- Toba Tek Singh
8- Faislabad
(a.58.83
b . 56
c. 59
d.54
e. 56
f. 54
g. 60
) Only seven these r just picks from faislabad.
9- Khanewal
Out of 4 , 3 constituencies had more than 60% turnover . The fourth one 52.93.
10- Sahiwal (3 out of 4 had more than 57%)
Now Coming to Interior Sindh.
1- Sanghar (All 3 constiutencies more than 50%)
2- Tharparkar (Both seats more than 64%)
(In analyzing sindh , we need to understand that after BB's death , there was no contest at all . )
But our so called democrats have no issue with these results becaz MQM hasn't won from these constituncies.
Are these democrats or hypocrats ?
faraz81
Member
@ revivalist and all others
my dear why dont u come out of these kufr and momin terms,i claim,that u even dont know the meanings of these terms.compare the present west with the old roman n persian empires,u wud see a significant differnce among them. and then also compare the system of Muhammad PBUH and our religious teachings and leaders of today.both are no more compareable with each other.it is the first point.
now 2nd point:islam has not given any system of ruling,islam gives only the principles upon which a system should be made or developed by us.for example,see the selection of four caliphs.Abu Bakar RA was elected through the people.Umar RA was elected through the caliph and Usman RA was elected through a majlis e shora,so there is not definite way of selection in islam.in islam its all about the principles and their executions.but if u claim that islam gives a ruling system then i would be pleased to get some near information abt this.
before talking abt "Why didn’t our prophet (saw) adopt the system of the superpowers of his time .i.e. Rome and Persia, as they were much developed then the society of Maka and medina???" i would give u a hint,have a look in history and u ll come across that Muhammad PBUH sent first the message of islam to rome and persia and gave them the principles of islam,he did not demand from them to give up thier kingdom,he demanded to make thier ruling systems according to the teachings of Allah sent through Muhammad PBUH.so ur argument is absolutely unvalid.
raheb
Member
That is Interesting by Beenai;
"we have a majority of illtrates ..ratio is 40,60 between litrate and illtartes .
so technically speaking 60% ignorants decision has to b accepted by the 40% litrates."
Now to whom these so called 'illtrates' elect, Are they also illitrates? The elected persons are mostly well-educated, highly educated, foriegn educated and so on and on, YET the general people's conditions do not change, Yet country do not progress, then WHAT is the difference? Where is Fault? What change we expect let's say after 50 years when litirates will be more than illitrates?
Secondly, WHY those so called '40% litirates' has to accept 60% ignorants decosion?
WHO says that a majority always has right decision and how comes?
Fact is NONE of democracy lovers have convincing arguments, BUT only dreams, and Planted words like, "beauty of democracy, democratic fruits# etc. etc. Its nothing wrong to have dreams, it shows you are serious lovers of country and mankind and are well wisher. I respect you all and have same wishes but I think world really need someother sort of system, and I believe that in next 50-80 years, democracy will NOT exist in its present form, as a streetman is losing faith in it, even in Europe and US.
That is a Worrying point around the world.
raheb
Rehab bahi,
No one says that democracy is the perfect system. In fact in socialogy , nothing is perfect . Same is the case of democracy.
Would u like to tell whats the difference between indian and pakistani masses ? Same illetracy but still democracy is a success over there . Why ? Becaz they are one nation with history and idealogy . We are not . thats why we curse democracy .
Asif
Blocked
Its not the masses who had palyed any role in buldozing the democratic system. Come with some facts man. They don't even know what Butto, Sharif, Chaudhry & Altaf upto? They all were a long time accomplice of Ayub, Zia & Mush, even they were in corridors of power due to these dictators. They never let the masses enjoy the fruits of democracy.
Let me reiterate Bhutto was an accomplice of Ayub for a decade or so.
Sharif was an accomplice of Zia for a decade or so.
Chaudhry & Altaf were an accomplice of Mush for a decade or so.
So all three major players of Pakistan politics were always in power for last 50 years in one form or the other & strengthened the dictators when it was in their interest not masses or Pakistan. And its not my opinion but history which none of us can rewrite.
Asif Bahi,
When was democracy in pakistan ?
Asif
Blocked
good shot!!!
shikra
Blocked
Now, please don't start asking such question about Islamic Republic of Pakistan that:
Where is Islam?
Where is Republic?
Where is Pakistan?
Where is Nation?
raheb
Member
Askhan Sir! if democracy is NOT perfact then why we want a imperfact thing?
If there is NO difference between masses of Pak. and India, then WHY we separated? What is Independence in it? Then you put a question and reply yourself, so may be I don't need to get in there. In fact I am NOT cursing democracy, but putting forward its poor sides and failure in Pakistan and even around the world. It is NOT as much big hit as people claim. Capitalists are now hiding behind it the world democracy and very actively ask for elections and so and on, as they know how to make people fool. Don't we know how much money they spend on election compains? Do we think that they Love poor people and country so much that they spend money from own pocket to be elected and to serve people?????? NO! NO Sir, they know that what they spend it will be multiply with 10- 20 or 50 times. And all this happen on the name of Democracy.
Asif sb! same old comments on politicians + army, nothing new, but these arguments has LOST its authenticity. Needed a Rethinking. History is Never a Truth, but a story which cas be biased more and more with time.
raheb
Asif
Blocked
its reality. its status quo, continuation of generals & their accomplices rule, some time called martial law & at others democracy.
Its my responsibilty to make the picture clear that there are not two system at work in Pakistan, martial-law & democracy, but only one the milli bhaggat of both of them.
Now back to raheb
man I would support your khalifa & your party but its an invisible entity, alive online, or whining all the time. Have you developed a community in Pakistan, how small it may be, but where people are prospering. Or where you have helped the people in their day to day life, however small it may be.
Unless you don't have honest & brave people who can go streets not only for protests but for reliefs too. You can't promote khilafat unless you start delivering man.
No whinning that the current lot is bad so you good, you have to make it clear that you are good coz you have changed the lives of people by adding some kinna value to their lives.
What value addition you have done in any part of Pakistan?
raheb sahib,
Whats perfect in socialogy ? Nothing. In terms of system , we have to go for best available in the lot. Most practiced in the lot . The system which has delievered the most in current era.
On second side , why we separated from india ? we are not different from indians at all . We have the same colour , race , language & history . Pakistan was created by British to suck the subcontinetal resources. This , they were doing by direct rule and now they are doing indirectly. Whether , Pakistan buys a tank or India buys a tank , who pays for it ? Subcontinent. Who benefits from it ?
@shikra, bahi i just meant that when democracy was practised in Pakistan ?
Democracy is not just the name of govt of the people , by the people and for the poepole. Its also govt of the law , by the law and for the law.
But we have only one law . MARTIAL LAW --direct and indirect
Revivalist
member
Faraz
Saying that there is no defined system of ruling is Islam is simply lack of knowledge and nothing else. Khilafah is the ruling system in Islam and has defined principles and structure. It also defines the method of election through the method of bayat. IF you see the method of election of all the four Caliph one thing common was the bayat, the acceptance of the people upon the condition that the caliph will implement Islam and nothing else and on this condition they will obey him. From this principle the method of accountability becomes very clear and easy. If the caliph will deviate from the path of Islam the Muslim Ummah is obliged to bring him back on the right track and if he implements Open Kufr then removing him by force is compulsory. So besides method of electing a caliph there is a detailed system of accountability in Islam.
Moreover please read those letters sent to the kings and emperors and see the tone and language used by our beloved prophet (saw). Beside the point is not what you have understood. My point was that why didn’t prophet (saw) and his noble companions adopted the system of Romans and Persians. Why they stick to there own system prescribed by Allah (swt) and his messenger (saw)? Because they knew that Islam is a complete ideology and has detail ruling system. So we are not allowed to adopt things which came out from Islamic thought. At the same time we can adopt areas of administration and public services from anywhere, as Umar (ra) adopted the system of Diwan. Please try to understand this difference.
Regards
shikra
Blocked
1. Allah and his messenger did not prescribe any System of Government.
2. Three out of Four Pious Caliphs were beheaded by the Pious Sahabs and you call that an Accountability.
3. Bayat was conducted at by force, threat and coercion by putting the sword at the neck.
4. Most of the BAYATS were performed only by a small section of the aristocrats.
5. According to that formula Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, ZiaulHaq and Musharaf could be accepted as Khalifas of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as they all took the BAYAT from the UMMAH.
6. Why the Dynasties of the Muslim Rulers such as Ghulamans, Lodhis, Khiljis and Moghals didn't establish Khilafat when they ruled over India for 800 years?
7. Could we call Babar, Hummayun, Akbar, Jahangir, Shahjahan and Aurangzeb as Khalifa?
If not, why?
raheb
Member
Well, well! Asif sb. you must be exchanging me with someone else, as I have never talked about 'khalifa' or any party or any system'. It must be either your interpretation or ae usual 'emotional boiling' which comes out pretty wrong as you are giving my name, but I havn't talk any of such things.
Even my confrontation to democracy is NOT for the sake of counterfrontation, or anything against anyone personally, But motive is to find out better and better and to check all the weakness of a system, which many claim as 'best' without any reflection on it, means it is Planted rather than own thinkings.
Shikra sb! your views about Islam seems quite disturbed in your post and I doubt if most of your points have any validity or realibility. Seems only Emotions.
raheb
Asif
Blocked
raheb, I am not here to create any system which is ideal & people would love to have it.
I am here hailing the onez who are doing something good & giving an opinion about the past 60 years events in Pakistan power circle. And also giving opinion on the general current affairs that affect Pakistani people.
tahts it :)
we all who r critising on Democracy ...are not guilty .
as we havent taste how Democracy actually taste like?
we havent come to know ever, how democracy actually feels like ?
we havent experience Democracy in its true spirit .
for what they say a worst kind of democracy is best than dictatorship.
we r not critising on democracy ...but we r critising on Pakistani version of democracy.
which has no difference with a dictatorship.
but only one difference ...
too many ppl to share national exchequer than an indivisual in a dictatorship.
faraz81
Member
@revivalist
as much as i cud understand,the meaning of bayat is according to u:the acceptance of the people upon the condition that the caliph will implement Islam and nothing else and on this condition they will obey him. From this principle the method of accountability becomes very clear and easy.now tell me,is it not the same wat i m saying under islamisation of voting system or any system.bayat in itself is nothing but if we fulfill its condition then bayat gets an important role in islamic society.
also from u:Saying that there is no defined system of ruling ins Islam is simply lack of knowledge and nothing else, and on the other hand u r writing:At the same time we can adopt areas of administration and public services from anywhere, as Umar (ra) adopted the system of Diwan. Please try to understand this difference.
so according to u ruling system is something else than administration and public services.or in other words for u ruling system = only bayat...
@Beenai ,
Who eats up the national excheuqre ?
its not politician , its NAPAK ARMY . Go and look at budgets . How much goes to Defence & debt servicing . Almost 80%. Then 13% goes to general administraton. Less than 7 % is left for development for which u can blame politicians .
But , since the politicans u admire are out of powere , so its sham democracy. Till yesterday , they were in power, it was proper democracy or we were heading towaqrds democracy.
Justapakistani
Member
@ askhan75
U got these stats from ECP site ? kool work dude......so it means the moderator's claims of 140% turnover was fake......stating anything without the proof is not a good idea.
raheb
Member
Its interesting Beenai, the thing you NEVER tasted (your words) yet you think it is/will be tasty? How comes?
You hav'nt taste it (democracy), felt it or experienced it, Then how can you say that you like/love it? How can you say it is better than dictatorship? How can you compare two things while you haven't seen one of them?
Asif sir; that's strange jump as you have been claimer of a ture democrate, but now you say you are not here for a system?
Dear its NOTHING wrong to have a ideology. All of us want a good neat and clean system in our country and even in rest of the world. All of us have emotions for suffering people, etc. etc. So our target is one, but way of thinking is different, which is not necessarily against each other and not bad either. If democracy function, I will use vote, BUT I am NOT convinced that streetman has any power to rule on his situation. Streetman can choose to vote for one or another, But after that it is STOP.
So do come with positive points of your ideology but be open also to reflect it and NOT take it as Truth for granted.
Lastly to asKhuan sahib! I think your choice of wordings are Very poor against army. You use disrecptful words against more than 500,000 people of Pakistan, its a Shame. I think Beenai should delete your such wordings, as words of HATE should NOT be accepted.
raheb
Asif
Blocked
unless you have some honest & brave people in the main stream, I feel silly enough to go for a name change of the system.
Thats why I am for the ones who are hitting the status quo (a tola of greedy generals & their accomplices). An outsider with something to offer & is credible enough.
I don't know which system is best for us, coz therez not even a single moment that a system ever been place in Pakistan. Once our new leadership(honest & capable) would implement & run a system as per rules of the system, only then we would be able to say that which kinna system is good/bad for Pakistaniz. So for the timebeing lets begin with democracy. :)
Get over with discussing what is better or not. Let first spread the political awareness among masses & then left it upto them to figure out whats best for them instead of forcing our ideal system on them.
@askhan,
dont make me to delete ur posts due to ur selection of words about army .
it snot only army..u cant use bad words about any one .any party .
u can differ ...but differ with grace.
and if u dont that wont mind removal of ur posts ...and dont try to be self pitty about it bhai sahib.
u have used bad words agaisnt me in a thread ,dedicated for me only .
i never removed that thread or any post of it .
but now u r throughing venom to everyone .
the other members who r ur idealogical opponnets ,dont treat them like ur enemies .
tolerance is the name of the game dear brother .
be pateint !
try to prove ur point with logic rather with abusive language agaisnt everyone .
thanks
@Raheb,
i love democracy ...yes i havent experineced it but still i do.
for the simple reasoning.
u always loves the things which r far off ...not within ur reach ..or u havent come across to them closely.
u always got facinated about things which r far off...
u always assume they must be better of than the ones already available to u .
same goes with the true democracy .
i only have heard and read about it ...but never experienced yet, so i think that might be the best thing to have ..............................
Revivalist
member
Faraz
To clarify it further I would say that in democracy people just vote for the candidate they like ‘ideally speaking’ and the bases upon which people give votes is ambiguous and absurd. After which they go to sleep for 5 years. In Khilafah the caliph must take Bayah which is a contract between the rulers and the ruled. The contract which is defined by Islam itself, According to the contract the caliph will rule by what Allah (swt) has reveled and nothing else. If the caliph will not fulfill the contract and implements Open Kufr, the contract between him and Ummah becomes null & void and then it is not obligatory upon the Ummah to obey him. A caliph remains caliph for life time if he fulfills the contract; if he doesn’t then the Ummah will not wait for 5 years to remove him through vote. Bro I fundamentally disagree with the concept of Islamization. It means that you make none Islamic system Islamic by making some cosmetics changes in it.
Bro there are four types of Hukm Shari. Farz (Obligatory), Haram (forbidden), Makroh (disliked), Mandoob (recommended) and Mubah (permissible). The area of administration comes under Mubah i.e. civil services or Traffic etc. When you say it is Mubah it mean its Islamic because the state will adopt these things based on evidence from Islam and will make Islam its reference point. So when Umar (ra) adopted the system of Diwan he knew about Hukme shari of it.
I would request you to visit this site (http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/structure) to know the structure of the upcoming Khilafah state.
Regards.
Ms.Beenai,
What word i have used about army which is objectionalbe ? Please come up with that .
And also tell what word i have used against u ?
U have consistently telling lies about turnover in Karachi , i have contradicted tthat with official figures but u dont' have an answer to that .
Now , u have come up with this new thing. Please hightlight the words that u think objectionable , put it to members and i will accept the decision of members.
Here , conistely politicians are abused, called corrupt , dons and all stuff but ARMY is a muqadaas gaaey.
raheb
Member
Sorry Beenai! it makes NO logic that the thing you Never tasted, you presume it is or will be tasty! that calls 'illusion'. Let me say I have tasted it, so I know better how it tastes. I know in this case better than you, BUT it might possible you like it, as you are mentally already prepared for something good. I can say that the Cover, of democracy is Beautiful, very attractive and looks excited, BUT holding in cover is just another. People buy things by seeing it paking and cover, but main thing is inside and that matters.
raheb
my dear brother askhan ,
janab e aali,
u have used the word NAPAAK for army.
we all know army did a major role in all democracy break downs in Pakistan .
we all have reservations about army and its role in politics .
but we all shud have a self check on our language while posting to an open forum.
thats all i want to say....
BAD GUMANI KI ANAK HATA KAY DEKHIEN TU LOGIC NAZAR AAYE GI .....
thanks
Beenai,
Mohtramama,
If thats the standard , then whats about "DON", "MAFIA" , "Corruput" , "Bekao" ?
btw, who had derailed the democracy ? Was it only mushraf ? Not at all Madam . Its army as an institution who had captured it.
And for your kind information , its not a gaali , its being used in comparision to generallys used "PAK Afwaaj".
Its upto your understand who u interpret it.
And u missed the second part of my quesiton ? What words i have used against u ? Please tell that as well.
Revivalist
member
Dear All,
A small but very good and effective book on democracy can be downloaded from the belowe website easily. I would request you all to read & try to understand it.
http://www.khilafat.dk/pdfdata/demo.pdf
Regards
@askhan,
janab e aali,
we need to have a check on our language all the time.
we need to have a sense of differentiataion between Gali ,bad word,blame ,hatred and all....
NAPAAK is the bad word ...but corrupt is a blame ,one can defend.or his /her supporter can defend.
but by reading Gali about any leader or instituion ,one got angry and retiliate with more bad words ....
GALI is provoking it self.
blame is not .
thats the major difference .
if someone is saying ur leader is a DON...u can defend him all the way ..u have all the rights to do so ...
but if some one is writing GALI to your leader .
u wud b angry and use bad words against the one who wrote that post .
simple!
so dont use GALIS ....and its suppose to b bad.
proof
although i personaly disagrees with every action of Mr.Altaf .
but i have just removed a thread ,in which topic consist of word PAGAL for him.
rule is rule .
i am not breaking that ...
so plz u too do so .
u never used bad word against me .
u r the sweetest among my brothers .
faraz81
Member
@revivalist
so u r still stick with the terms and due to the holiness of the terms u r not coming out of ur small size shell.from my first post i m talking abt islamisation of the concepts/systems.so if i vote in the name of Allah on the promise that i will stand against the ruler if he disobey the laws of Allah then it is not Bayaht!!although fulfilling this condition given by u "The contract which is defined by Islam itself, According to the contract the caliph will rule by what Allah (swt) has reveled and nothing else." so just changing the form of taking this bayah does not make it halal or haram,the real thing is that this vote should be casted in the name of Allah and to chose such a ruler who is going to obey the Allah's laws,so following this principle u r not going to sleep for next 5 years and if the present ruler (so called caliph for people like u) is not going against this contract so it wud be extended automatically over the next and next periods,u can see that happened in the case of Mahateer Muhammad.
my request to u is come out of the shell of terms,just try to understand what is hidden in these terms,these terms are giving us the idealogies of a system,these terms are not their to be worshipped or to be respected from us.
i m also looking to ur reply on the topic of Tafarqa,i asked u there one question that u have to still answer.
@Beenai,
Mohtramma,
DON is not a galli to you but NAPAK is . Excellent logic. I m speechless.
Secondly, u worte:
"u have used bad words agaisnt me in a thread ,dedicated for me only ."
and now u wrote :
"u never used bad word against me ."
If your second statement is correct, then i have the right to ask why u alleged me in the first instance at all ? An apology is due.
no response .
Revivalist
member
Faraz
It’s very difficult to make you understand of simple and easy things. For you terms are irrelevant and for me terms carry significant weight. For me Firqa refers to those people who deny the Qatae hokum of Islam and for you all these differences of Fiqh and political parties are firqas. Could you please tell me what do you mean by Firqa and who do you consider as firqa?????
Bro it seems that you don’t want to understand the difference between democracy and Khilafah and the method of electing the ruler in both these systems, and your brain is unable to grasp the differences. I hope you will think about these concepts and will come up with a reply making sense and is based on evidences.
Regards
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