1-There should be only 2 or 3 Madersa in the city for Dars-s-Nizami and should be controlled by one authority .
2-small Madaris should only teach Quran and Hafz .
گلہ تو گھونٹ دیا ہے اہل مدرسہ نے میرا
پر مسجدوں میں رہے گی صدا لا الہٰ الاللہ
PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion
Deobandi Madaris and Pakistani Taliban......
(86 posts)-
netengr
blockedPosted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 6:15 # -
toamin
memberThere was a very detailed review of madrasa establishment in Pakistan during mushy era and they generally found no problem with it.
You are imposing your view above on what should be done but you are not giving any clear reasoning why that should be done?
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 6:25 # -
netengr
blocked@salaam
کیا آپ کا ہر بات پر جواب دینا فرض ہے ؟Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 6:38 # -
toamin
memberDear Mr. Neteggr
Discussing the subject and entertaining you with some good ideas :)
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 6:44 # -
SufiSoul
Membernetengr,
Do you have any suggestions for shia extremists,to control them????Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 6:55 # -
netengr
blocked@sufisoul
Yes ,I agree that there are shia "taliban " too and they should also be controlled ,Every time when Government to start to control them they use "shia-sunni issue " card which is not right .Shias should have freedom to practice and should not be the target for hatred by other sects .Second Shia should also respect others .
After Irani Inqilab The dream of Making Pakistan like Iran by some Shia groups is not valid now .All the religious activities should not disturb the daily life of a common man and loud speakers should not be used ,Most of the religious gathering in public places is to show the political strengths only .
Government or authentic authorities should control all religious literature to make sure that this does not spreading hatred against others .
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 7:29 # -
SufiSoul
MemberGovernment or authentic authorities should control all religious literature to make sure that this does not spreading hatred against others .........
===========================================================This is the key for peace.
Basic beliefs/Aqaid should be taken care of,of others..
Being a muslim if i love ALLAH,Quran,Hadees,Sahaba,Imams and i dont want listen a single word abt all these my beliefs.
Than no one muslim should have the right to abuse or similar words towards these beliefs..
This careless language is the problem here......Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 9:56 # -
msohail83
Membernetengr,
You claim to know everything about madrisa's, yet you know very little.
My personal observation is that overwhelming majority of pupils at madrissas comprises of orphans and those who can't financially afford to send their chilren to schools.
Do you want to deprive them of basic education that they may not get otherwise? Why do you neglect the fact that our govt spends only 2% of the GDP on education? Who is responsible for the basic right of these less fortunate kids? You're so blinded by the hate that you wanna blame everything on madrissa.
By your logic we should close down all the schools cuz some of the notorious criminals went to the schools for their basic education.
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 14:42 # -
toamin
memberRight MSohail,
That is the point that he is pushing forward. Let us apply this logic in some other cases to highlight what it could mean.
We would have to close the medical colleges from where doctors graduated who were involved in criminal negligence. Let us take recent two cases of PIMS and Lahore Hospital
Also we got to close Legal Schools from where babar awan, pirzadas, qayums, sajjads etc were graduated from?
If we start to close schools based on this logic then all schools of Pakistan will end up closed!
Perhaps this is what our honorable member wants, close down of all schools!
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 14:50 # -
netengr
blockedMost of the Udeoband Ulema are also threatened by Taliban ,Moulna Mazher founder of banned organization alakhter trust lives in tight security dedicated police mobile always with him cannot go to his own masjid of Namaz .
Deoband Mufti Muneer ahmad akhwand Khalifa of Yousuf ludhyanwi recieved threat by Taliban and now he is USA .Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 15:13 # -
toamin
memberAlthough baseless but for the sake of argument let us assume that most of ulema are threatened by taliban.
That means most of the ulema and schools are against taliban, that means most of the schools and ulema are no problem.
Then what is all this fuss about?
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 15:18 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I'v read all of this discussion thus far. I found two distinguishing facts;
1) Lack of imparting of duties by Pakistan Govt. for decades!
a) lack of leadership
b) lack of impartial justice (social, financial, political, judicial)c) lack of dissemination of basic necessities of life
d) lack of visione) The state apparatus, that is, the military wanted to avoid doing their duty, so they handed over their job to Mujahideen. Selfishly abandoned them when the job was done
2) netengr's hate for Islam, Madrassa, Jihad, Mujahideen, poor people who go to study in these Madrassa, education for the poor in general in Pakistan
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 15:41 # -
SufiSoul
Membernetengr wars between muslims are very common in Islamic history..
Muslims know that their logic for war for ISLAM counts at the Judgement day theirfore they dont worry if they are being Martyred or kill others..
You can give any name to this war between muslims.BUT war should be to save some noble angle of ISLAM..
NOW if muslims of Pakistan are killing each other so on either side they hold the view to save ISLAMIC ideology..My question was that if both Shia and Sunni stop abusing the basic AQAIDS of each other peace can be assured between the two groups at war?????
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 18:01 # -
Still waiting to hear from netengr.
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 14:58 # -
netengr
blockedMy question was that if both Shia and Sunni stop abusing the basic AQAIDS of each other peace can be assured between the two groups at war?????
-------------
YES ,The Example is Europe and USA where so many shia sunni is living and have no clash between them .
Shia Sunni or other sectarian issue happens when other start abusing or do not have any tolerance ,Shia sunni live together despite of differences there is no clash between a common shia or Sunni ,I have Kattar Sunni Aqida but I have shia friends and neighbor and have no problem .
One side Molvi say about "Itehad Bainul Muslimeen " and on the other side they spread so much hatred for others .
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 15:11 # -
A lovely post by netengr. I appreciate your logic. Now please tell us what makes Europe and USA an ideal place that no Shia and Sunni rivalry is cause of any trouble!
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 15:20 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Pertinent! question Mirza sb. *thumbs up*
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 15:49 # -
netengr
blockedWestern society promotes tolerance between religions ,all religious practices are within boundary wall ,Using violence is crime ,No one can use loud speakers in masjid to torture neighbors ,groups like SSP ,Lashker jhangwi ,Lashker taiba and talibans are consider there as criminal and cannot operate there freely .
In Pakistan every thing is allowed ,non authentic hatred literature is every where ,Religion is being practice in public places just to show other sect their strength and power . Weapons and Violence is becoming common in religious groups ,No single authority is controlling them .
I know some Ulema and people despite of the difference they do not spread hatred in public ,I have listened many speeches and read book writen by rafi Usmani or Taqi Usmani and I never find hatred in their literature ,Also Deoband Ulema Like Mufi Shafi Usmani ,Ashraf ali thanwi nver use this kind of hatred .
Tablighi Jamaat do not spread hatred and they can manage to gather million people without using any "hatred propaganda " and they think that they have ability to convince others by their ideology .the low caliber b'd akhlakh molvi are now every where and taking the control of Madaris and Masajid and spreading hatred and using violence ,If they are not in control then they could damage our society
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 17:10 # -
@netengr
Western society promotes tolerance between religions ,all religious practices are within boundary wall.'
Restriction and confinement. What type of religious tollerance this could be?
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 17:20 # -
netengr
blockedSikh,Hindu,Muslim,Jew,Christian and Shia ,Sunni living and working together and no fights .
I am not saying they have perfect society and at least they try to promote to respect others religion and we are going in reverse direction
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 17:25 # -
So that settles it as you say they don't have a perfect society. Anyway this was not the point. The point is members have already established that some elements are using deobandis for killings and destruction dubbing them as Taliban, a generalization hiding the true face of the miscreants.
Who are the hiring hands?
-----------------------------
the low caliber b'd akhlakh molvi are now every where and taking the control of Madaris and Masajid and spreading hatred and using violence ,If they are not in control then they could damage our societyI don't think that you may come up with the name of a madarissa or a masjid involved in spreading hatred and use of voilence as mentioned by you above. If there is than pls let us all know, otherwise it remains a generalization used to defame all, while all the way failure to focus and expose those actually involved.
This is also taken into account that you came up with names of ullemas who are not involved spreading hate. Now please balance this equation by naming those who are actually involved!
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 17:51 # -
hustler
MemberONE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THIS TOPIC TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE "TABLIGH E JAMAT "ETC,WE MUST ALL FIND OUT THEIR SOURCE OF INCOME MOST OF THE AGENDA THE FOLLOW IS OF SAUDI'S LIKE THE TALIBAN OF AFGHANISTAN .THEY ARE NOT IN A MAJORITY IN PAKISTAN BUT THEY WANT TO ESTABLISH THEIR RULES IN PAKISTAN
Posted 2 years ago on 04 Jan 2010 10:36 # -
@hustler
In a sense what you say is that Saudi funds are being channeled into tablieghi jamat-Pakistan, and for the taliban in Afghanistan.So it means they follow Saudi guidelines.Posted 2 years ago on 04 Jan 2010 15:43 # -
netengr
blockedHere I defend Tablighi Jamaat ,There is no source of income of Tablighi Jamaat ,There are very few madaris and Masajid directly under control of Tablighi jamaat and all of them are very simple and do not have luxury like other well funded deoband madaris ,Those who belong to Tablighi jamaat use their own money when they go for 3,40 days or 4 months ,They do not ask for chanda and encourage people to join them instead of just helping them by money .
Some of Taliban supporters even criticize Tablighi jamaat to discourage going to fight or so called "jihad " .Tablighi jamaat always tried to keep distance from the militants ,Yes there are some Jihadis have spent some time with tabligh but tablighi never supported these militants .
Posted 2 years ago on 04 Jan 2010 16:56 # -
netengr
blockedthis is Sipeh Sahaba website
Posted 2 years ago on 04 Jan 2010 17:11 # -
netengr
blockedhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/radio/2010/01/100105_south_punjab_militants_audio.shtml
جنوبی پنجاب میں دہشت گرد
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 15:21 # -
netengr
blockedhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2010/01/100110_punjab_ijaz2_zee.shtml
پاکستان میں بیس ہزار سے زیادہ مدارس میں بیس لاکھ کے قریب طلباء و طالبات زیر تعلیم ہیں اور انہیں مفت تعلیم، کھانا اور رہائش فراہم کی جاتی ہے۔ ایسے میں مدارس پر اٹھنے والے اربوں روپے کے اخراجات کے متعلق بھی سوال اٹھتے ہیں کہ آخر اتنی بڑی رقم ان کے پاس آتی کہاں سے ہے؟۔ اس بارے میں عائشہ صدیقہ کہتی ہیں کہ مدارس کے لیے فنڈنگ کا کوئی مسئلہ نہیں ہے۔ ان کے مطابق زکوۃ کے علاوہ بیرون ملک سے انہیں بڑا پیسہ ملتا ہے اور رمضان میں مولوی حضرات جہاز بھر بھر کر سعودی عرب اس کام کے لیے بھی جاتے ہیں۔ ’مدارس کو ملنے والے پیسے کی جانچ پڑتال کا کوئی قانون ہے اور نہ کوئی حکومت ان سے پوچھ سکتی ہے۔‘ ڈاکٹر عائشہ نے بتایا کہ قانون کے مطابق کہیں بھی مسجد اور مدرسہ اکٹھا نہیں کھولا جاسکتا اور بہاولپور کے ایک افسر نے اس پر عمل کرانے کے اقدامات کیے تو ان کا تبادلہ ہوگی
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2010/01/100110_punjab_ijaz2_zee.shtml
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jan 2010 4:55 # -
Asif
Blockednetengr
pay regards to Reagan for bringing his heroes, Alkaida & Taliban, to Pakistan for blending a cold war between two super powers into religous one.
And about twenty lakh students studying in madrassah, you have a very simple solution. Have just 20 thousand english medium schools funded by your sarkar/NGOs next to those madrassah instead of throwing the dirty kitchen round the clock on msajid & madrassah.
Almost all missionery schools & church exist together. So your arguement of seperation of masjid & madrassah also carries no weight.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 18:17 # -
Asif
Blockednetengr
It was your favourate topic to spill hatered, but now you are avoiding Come & defend your highly "logical" claims. :-)
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Jan 2010 12:27 # -
toamin
membernetgear has same opinions as propagated by research and analysis wing.
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Jan 2010 13:37 # -
He is spilling hatered, that is for sure. On behalf of whom?
Is he a non Muslim in disguise of a Muslim?Posted 2 years ago on 28 Jan 2010 14:37 # -
netengr
blockedJab ilzam lagao tou kehtay hain yeh propaganda hay ,jab facts batao tou kehtay hain spreading hatred .
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Jan 2010 17:45 # -
netengr
blocked@shaheen--e-BaitullahMehsoud
tou shaheen hay basaira ker waziristan kay gharon main
(just a badla of your personal attack )
@JJKHAN
Singapore main shariat nafiz kero werna police kay halay kerwa doon ga ..OK ?
Posted 2 years ago on 28 Jan 2010 17:49 # -
Asif
Blockednetengr
I am waiting for the pearls from your keyboard in response, On one side you insist for debate & on other hand you duck the hard talk :-)
pay regards to Reagan for bringing his heroes, Alkaida & Taliban, to Pakistan for blending a cold war between two super powers into religous one.
And about twenty lakh students studying in madrassah, you have a very simple solution. Have just 20 thousand english medium schools funded by your sarkar/NGOs next to those madrassah instead of throwing the dirty kitchen round the clock on msajid & madrassah.
Almost all missionery schools & church exist together. So your arguement of seperation of masjid & madrassah also carries no weight.
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Jan 2010 7:52 # -
netengr
blocked@Dear Asif Bhai ,
1-Madaris is not the substitute of elementary schools ,Madaris has Nisab called "dar-e-Nizami " which is the 9 year specialize course and the graduate called "Aalim " .Those people who started these madaris in Pakistan was not intend to give basic education for all ,that was for those people who want to get "religious" education only .but in 80s the foreign funds and Afghan jihad changed the concept and this become industry and factory of ISI raw material .
2-Many Muftis and Aalims are running and supervising normal schools .
3-If missionary schools are with church then do we need to follow them ?
a) do they have missionary schools in every streets ?
b)missionary schools give "religious education " only ?In Saudi Arabia the basic education is same for all and universities have special faculties for Fiqa and Religion.in our country Madaris can be consider as University but 2 to 3 Madaris as university are enough for each city and can be controlled and maintain the standards .
Madersa for Quran leraning and Hifz of Kids can be with every masjid .Posted 2 years ago on 29 Jan 2010 10:36 # -
Asif
Blockednetengr
Dude you again avoided to say a single word on constructing 20 thousand schools next to madaris.
Is it more expensive than carrying out a military operation on them?
Or Does it hurt the interests of Generals & their leftovers? (who doesn't allow to build schools in their areas in oreder to maintain their sardarism/wadairaism/malkism)
Why your pen stops for paying regards to Reagan for bringing his heroes over here to destroy Pakistan?
Do you get a "wazeefa" from them?
Last, whatever madaris are teaching is none of your business unless you have something better to offer these kids next to these madaris, dear Neo-Democrat.
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Jan 2010 12:06 #
Reply
You must log in to post.