PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Destruction of Islamic culture and values in the name of Enlighten Moderation
(46 posts)-
"I got no problem with these wannabe's as long as they keep these wh*re houses to themselves and within their own class."Posted 1 year ago on 01 Sep 2010 22:22 #
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Well, LifeH, good to see you on the main forum for a change. Your video shows a handful of young people, most of them with some west background, trying hard to recreate a NYork atmosphere or that of some other west city. I can't see them posing any threat to the Islamic culture and values of our country. Ignoring them completely is the best one could do by them. Should such clubs be banned? Probably. But then they would meet in private houses and carry on from there.
So many Pakistanis have lived abroad. So many Pakistanis have really been taken in by the glamour of the west and their unending chatter about freedom, human rights, etc. They'll only wake up when martial law is declared - in the west, an eventuality which is not so farfetched as it sounds.
As for Islamic culture and values, these too have to go through a real revolution themselves to bring back to the fold the nation's youth gone astray. Meanwhile, as you put it yourself, thank God such senseless activities like listening to stupid music. "rocking hard", etc. are restricted to a certain class alone.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 0:33 # -
shimatoree
MemberMG
My old mantra of westoxication is true after all.
Everyone complains bitterly about the brain washed suicide bombers but say nothing about these brain washed people who are not destroying bodies but minds and soul.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 1:10 # -
khanseena1
Member@shimatoree
They are not harming anyone else.
Live and let live.Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 5:46 # -
enlightened Moderation is a gift of a dictator , who was a slave of USA .
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 7:36 # -
hkbajwa
MemberYeah well firstly this concept of "islamic culture" is a pure figment of the imagination.
There is no such thing as an "islamic culture". There are indigenous cultures than happen to be predominantly islamic.
Anyhow Kahnseena is absolutely right. These people do not harm anybody, nor do they force or coerce anybody into living their type of lifestyles.
i would think that the youth who counsels violence and suicide bombing in actuality destroys islamic culture MUCH MORE than these partygoers. He not only breaks the fundamental tenet of Peace in islam, but in the process endangers and destroys the lives of people around him by trying to enforce something that is not for him to enforce.
That causes ten million times the damage to islamic "culture" (if there is such a thing) than anything else.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 7:37 # -
Shimatoree, OK course you're right. Westoxication is very much the order of the day, especially in view of all the dual, triple nationalities traipsing about the place. We can say three cheers for the west, they have done their job beautifully. Or we can all show some patience, take all this nonsense with a shrug and see the west fall down the abyss of insignificance. As for the charming fashion of the suicide bomber, he, too, will go the way of all flesh when the time is ripe. And I hasten to add, though no one is listening: Leave FATA alone. They are our own people. Stop bombing them and start talking to them as of today.
HKB, You write as is you wont with a great degree of reasonable reflexion. Still, I don't quite agree about the Islamic culture thing. Such a thing does exist and denying it will not get us any further either. I am wholly with you on the concept of Peace at the very centre of Islam. And peace implies tolerance, immense tolerance. And that is the very concept which has come to be missing from our practice of our religion in this year of 2010. This also covers Khanseema's plea to live and let live. As for Musharraf's enlightened moderation, everything the man touched turned to dust finally. But, please to remember, almost all our "leaders" so far have been US slaves. Nothing new there either. If one finally comes out and cuts our ties to that sick giant, that will be the day to celebrate.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 8:00 # -
achtung
Memberi can not see any culture as islamic culture. there is one arabic culture. arabic origin muslims, christians, jews have almost same culture. in pakistan punjabis, pakhtoons, balochis, sindhis, kashmiris are muslims but have different cultures. actually cultures more related to ethnicity then religion.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 9:27 # -
o bhai ,
culture cheez hi aisi hay kay duniya ka koi sociologist is ko sahi tarhah bayaan explain nahi kar pata .
har kitab mein socialogy ki , ap culture ki defination dekh lo .... aik kitab ki defination dosray se 90 degree change milay gi .Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 9:37 # -
shimatoree
Memberkhanseenai-
They are not harming ANYONE in YOUR opinion. And that statement is without merit.
Perhaps my comment was a bit too much .They are an insidious infection of the mind and soul which is spreading amongst the young( 60% plus of the population). You ever heard of PEER pressure !
They are like the Heejras and prostitutes who do not BLOW up anyone into smitherenes !Yes that is true but they are certainly not good for the society.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 12:33 # -
Agreed to shimatoree. Even if it is nothing of Islamic culture, aren't they affected by American culture.
If you think they are not harmful, American and Indian media and culture and all those open minded TV channels are not harmful anyway. Whatever they show and do on screens "These people do not harm anybody, nor do they force or coerce anybody into living their type of lifestyles."
Someone commented on the video
"wait, wait, till this society degenerates even further ... i live in the west, and find that just below the surface of hedonism, there seethes a society of jittery psychos, devoid of fidelity ... just wait till these girls start vomiting on the streets and get laid in smelly public toilets in the wee hours of mornings ..."
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 12:58 # -
Not Possible
Blockedfundamentalism is gift of a dictator who was slave of the Saudis.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 14:52 # -
shimatoree
MemberGo ahead. Blame the dictator.
Blame anyone else but our own selves.
But it might help to buy a mirror and then you will see for sure who is to blame!
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 15:20 # -
Dusky
MemberThis is not a new phenomenon and has nothing to with dictators, been going on in big cities since long. Only difference is, by courtesy of liberal media now masses have access to it.
In my opinion, we are losing moderation in society which is pushing us into extremes, youth included.Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 15:37 # -
These are bunch of Cheez Burgers of Defence Karachi and among them large number of those who are Foreign born and breed doesnt have much idea about Pakistani culture and values...These kind of Parties are COMMON in Posh areas of Karachi like DHA since long before even Musharraf's Govt. and due to so much Army Influence(Many of them are sons and Daughters of Army Officers) no action ever taken so That isnt new if we consider the city like Karachi and POSH areas of DHA cause this is their for very long time....No wonder why we have so many Foreign Consulates in DHA and Cliftom Areas....
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 17:13 # -
Hussain Farooqui
MemberUndercover activities of similar type are existent in the countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Drinking and dancing behind the closed doors are common things in Iran and Saudi Arabia also.
Posted 1 year ago on 02 Sep 2010 19:45 # -
Get ready to explore a wicked, crazy and rocking side of Pakistan. A loser like you today has to prove his/her worth and needs to light it up like a dynamite.. cause baby you're a firework!
Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 18:44 # -
hypocrite
MemberWhat culture, what tradition and what values?
Is the culture, tradition and value being maligned by these youngsters or those who have killed thousands of people in last few years.
Is this culture, tradition and value being safeguarded by those who killed the surgeon in Balochistan.
Is this culture, tradition and value being nourished, cherished and supported by those who dictate to others as to how others have to spend their life, yet they dont follow their own dictates.
Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 19:16 # -
@LifeH2O
What is wrong with this video?
Posted 4 months ago on 30 Dec 2011 17:06 # -
qaisernadeem
MemberI was under the impression that most of the parties in Pakistan were a mega sausage fest but I guess I was wrong!!
Posted 4 months ago on 30 Dec 2011 17:15 # -
Can some one define what is culture or islamic culture or value?
Why some misguided people try to impose their thoughts as Islamic culture on everyone. One of my die-hard Jamati uncles had this same desease of imposing Islamic culture/values on our entire family. For him ever pre-marrriage during-marriage and post marriage rituals were Hindu rites and thus should be totally banned.
Posted 4 months ago on 30 Dec 2011 17:47 # -
quaidkamazaar
MemberWell... in an ideal Pakistan, people must be free to live the way the want... if they want to westernized, go ahead, if they want to wear hijab/burqa, go ahead.
i dont think these young people are forcing anyone into all this. there is no "enlightened moderation" involved in this. in my view, enlightened moderation means a tolerant environment where everyone coexists happily. dumb people cannot think deep enough to understand this.
Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 4:49 # -
Abdul Rahman
Member"For him ever pre-marrriage during-marriage and post marriage rituals were Hindu rites and thus should be totally banned. "
That is 100% correct. Pagan customs inherited from Hindus have nothing to do with simple Islamic marriage. The present dy marriges start with the word Bismillah and whatever happens after that is contrary to the teachings of Islam. People waste money and time in customs that are often conducted with exorbitant money. The poor look at these filthy marriages and try to copy it and then the whole society gets affected.
Islam came to crush these pagan customs and hoopla but ignorant continue to follow the jahiliyah customs. There is no such thing as native culture. Islam supercedes all cultures and they need to mold into Islam and not vice versa.
Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 20:30 # -
khanseena1
Member@AR
Islam did not come to "crush" any pagan customs except like burying infant girls.Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 21:07 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberKS, It needs to be applied again which your forefathers failed to do in 1000 years of Muslim rule. Still 40,000,000 girls were killed in pagan infested India.
Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 22:23 # -
mosid
Member@lifeH2O
While there are people like these at work to destroy the Islamic way of life in Pakistan, there are opposing forces doing the good work of Allah Subhanahuwata'ala. In the end victory is for the true deen. As individuals we need to apply Islam to our selves and our families and then to our inner circles.Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 22:47 # -
@Abdul Rahman
Your backward views are very similar with my late uncles's views. I wish he was alive to share his backward thoughts with you.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 18:44 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberST, Who brainwashed you?
Like it or not the backward views will overwhelm the modern skyscrapers concrete jungle views. Only clowns get under the spell of so called decadent views that are thrust down the throat camoflagued as "modern" viewss as depicted in several videos posted here. Man may have conquered space but continues to think and act like cave man under illusion that he is "modern".
Iqbal
Dhoondne wala sitaroun ki guzargahoun ka
apni afkar ki dunya ka safar kar na sakaQuran
Surah 56, verses 77-80: “This is a glorious reading on a book well kept, which none but the purified teach. This is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.” Surah 25, verse 5: “They said: Tales of the ancient which he has caused to be written and they are dictated to him morning and evening.”
The tales of the ancient means the argument of the Kuffar and Mushrikeen 1400 years ago is same like argument of ST in 2012 about being backward.
Now go figure who is actually a backward looking clown?
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 18:57 # -
@Abdul Rahman
No point discussing with someone backward like you. People like you responsible for today's Pakistan and its plight.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 19:43 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@khanseena1: They aren't harming anyone ? (*Raise eyebrows*)
It is sad to note the fact that you seem to be way way out of touch from reality, my friend. Do you want me to post examples on what harm they are doing to most everyone ?
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 19:52 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberST, Quite the contrary. "Forward" looking "backward" drifting searchers of fake sweet "truth" are responsible for the mess not only in Pakistan but the Ummah as a whole
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 20:21 # -
@Abdul Rahman
You are incurable; there is no treatment of backward minded people like you. You represent extreme side of Paksitani society and like fasadi molvis you call anyone dis-agreeing with you kafir and mushrik. You are type of people who call Taliban (killers) angels and true soldiers of God.
May God give you hidayat and guide you
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 21:08 # -
Dusky
MemberWhich Islamic values we are talking about?
Wahabi/Deobandi: If you go o mazar you are Kafir?
Barelvi: If you dont go to mazar and pray the dead and do all the rituals you are kafir
Sufi: You dont need to pray all te time, get high, pray and fell close to Allah.
Shia: Go to mazar, do zirats and go into 40 day crying cycle every year and you are golden or should I say chosen one.
Ismails: Do what ever you want to do but pay the Imam tax to wash your sins and you are good to goAnd this list goes on with various variations within and outside...
So what kind of Islamic values we are talking about?
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 21:16 # -
@Dusky
Very well described
These fasadi molvi are responsible for our today's sectarian-based society.
You didn't mention one very dangerous group and they are Jamat Islami and their ideology is full of hatred, extremism and intolerance.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 21:22 # -
Dusky
Member"You didn't mention one very dangerous group and they are Jamat Islami and their ideology is full of hatred, extremism and intolerance."
They are part of wahabi/deobandi clan...
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 21:33 # -
Abdul Rahman
Member"So what kind of Islamic values we are talking about?"
There is one value and one ideology and that is Quran and Sunnah.
Stop using the British created labels like Deobandi, Wahabi, ismailis etc.
At the end of the day that real ideology will ultimately prevail after the garbage is discarded.
Afghanistan: When Soviets invaded, every faction from Sufis to secularist joined the fray and after years of stuggle the rusted ideologies did bite the dust and one ideology came out supreme that is currently challenging and bleeding the combined might of high tech super powers and their brown slaves. Their success is inevitable
Arab World: The process has started and the same scenario will be repeated.
Turkey: Ditto
Pakistan: Ditto
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 21:48 # -
Dusky
Member"At the end of the day that real ideology will ultimately prevail after the garbage is discarded."
That's where the problem is AR, all the followers of different ideologies think only their ideology is "real ideology" every thing else is garbage. They all claim to drive their ideology from Quran and Sunnah.
Also, stop blaming Britishers or others for the collective sins of Muslims.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 21:54 # -
pakstar
MemberThe video only presents the nature of Human society which by default drags us away from the Love of God. As there is more lust in evil and God wants us not to choose lustful evil but forever Lusftul hereafter life, therefore God sent us messengers and wali Allah's passed on this message to us.
We at large follow electornic media and regretably Media has played ridiculus role in this regard. Our Air time is for Fashion Shows, Indian and western culture, Propaganda News but no Air time for things such as EDUCATION, Religion and Inter-Faith Harmony. Also we have left seeking Wali-Allahs or Allah walay loag for Hadiath and started following Molvis.
70 Hazar Loag pehlay aik wakt may Islam seekhnay Shaik Abdul Qadir Jilani ka Waz Suntay thay.. Aj hum in Buzurgoon aur real Alimo ki kitabain nahi perhatay .. such as Ghuniya Tu Talebeen, Kashful Majoob etc..
If you have time watch series of video one mentioned above.
May Allah Show us Right path.Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 22:12 # -
Dusky
Member"May Allah Show us Right path."
Agree,
To each his own, but I am cretin not under the guidance of this fake sheikh a.k.a Tahir-ul-Qadri. I am pretty sure AR can enlighten you more about his believes.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 22:17 # -
pakstar
Member@Dusky It is cerntainly not sensible to reject someone all togather, he may have some things good and somethings bad also as no one is perfect.
I Don't mind if AR or anyone tells me that what he quoted is wrong in accordance with Quranic and Hadees reference instead of disseminating personal opinions.
JazakAllah.
Don't go for Label (Tahir Ul Qadri), Go for Content (Hazoor GhousAlAzam Jilani R.A)As usual AR just posted a website instead of talking on contents of Video. May Allah Show him Right Path ,, InshAllah.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 22:31 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberPosted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 22:33 # -
pakstar
Member@AR come on stop spreading Propaganda.. I have seen those pics, that does not make someone's mushrik.. Kissing feet in respect , kissing Grave from headside (both makes you in position of Sajda) does not make you mushrik.. I have kissed grave of my father and of wali Allah's many times, you think I became a MuskriK too? get a life mate.
If so then all angel are also Mushrik as they refused sajda to Hazrat Adam A.S and according to your principle only Iblees was right, yes? as he refused sajda to Hazrat Adam A.S.
Why Allah SUbhanataleh asked Angels to sajda Hazrat Adam A.S? Allah Subhanataleh wanted all angels to become Mushrik??
Q1. How do you apply your funny logic here? please elaborate
Also participating in Christmas party makes him mushrik?
Q2.can you give me reference in accordance with Quran and Hadees for Not participating in Christmas or you want readers to believe you blindly?Plz reply Q1 and Q2.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 22:38 # -
Dusky
Member@pakstar: I DON'T go with the mantra of "یہ نہ دیکھو کون کہ رہا ہے، یہ دیکھو کیا کہ رہا ہے".
Simple logic: Prophet PBHU was regarded ad "Sadiq" and "Ameen" even before prophet hood, hence people listen to him and believe in him.
If a person does not have integrate, i care less what he is preaching.
Let me cut and paste one of my old paste in regards to Tahir Qadri.
"Oh please... not again this hypocrite..
Guy applied for his immigration to Canada while he was sitting member of Pakistan parliament. For immigration one either apply as skilled labor/professional class or in investor class. Molvi/Islamic scholars does not fall under professional category. In both cases one need to show plenty of money. Which he mush have mention in his immigration application, but no such thing in his income tax returns which he submitted as sitting member of parliament.
This guy denounce Pakistani politics and system as soon as he get his ticket to Canada, as soon as he get his immigration paperers every thing in Pakistan ans Pakistani politics become a curse and he left Pakistan after resigning as member of national assembly.
Upon arrival in Canada he bought a big house in George town, Ontario (near Toronto)and settle here permanently. Too much for a person whose income tax returns in Pakistan says he does not have high income. This guy is the biggest opportunist since his days as lecturer at the Essa Khel government college.
If you guys want to read more about true Tahir ul Qadri, download/read this book: Dr-Tahir-Ul-Qadri-Ki-Ilmi-Khiyanteen
http://www.muhammadilibrary.com/Books/books-3/Dr%20Tahir%20Ul%20Qadri%20Ki%20Ilmi%20Khiyanteen.pdf
"Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 23:00 # -
pakstar
Member@Dusky
again you are trying to be personal with him, I don't know weather your claim of canadian immigration is right or wrong as that is not my concern at all.I only care about his Islamic talks and I found that he always talk with reference to Quran and Hadees. I myself double checked few of his references mentioned and found them authentic. I would appreciate if you can dig out a single wrong reference in any of his talks..so we can get ourselves right. that would be more convincing and productive.
anyway.. this debate was not about Allama Tahir Ul Qadri sahab. don't worry about that.
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 23:15 # -
Dusky
Member@pakstar:
"again you are trying to be personal with him,"
طاہر ال قادری نہ مری بھنس نہیں چرائی ہے ، میں کیوں پرسونل ہوں ان سے ؟
"I only care about his Islamic talks"
I care less about the message if the messenger doesn't hold credibility. Period!
Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 23:40 # -
Abdul Rahman
Memberpakstar is justifying Sajda based on Angels prostration to Adam AS. This is most ridiculous assumption. Prophet SAS and Sahaba RA were the best of mankind until the end of the world. No Abdul Qadir Jilani RA and no pir murshad can even reach the dust of those jewels.
We follow the Sunnah of Prophet SAS. If what these sufi crackpots are saying, the Sahaba RA would have been the first to prostrate to the graves or person. They did not do that nor the earlier generation of Muslims.
BTW, angels are angels and Insan is Insaan. Insaan is prone to error and commits mistakes. But insaan has guidance to follow the Sunah of Prophet SAS. Angels are created not to do any mistakes. They are pure. To say angels did shirk is Kufr. Allah SBT directed angels to make sajda to Adam AS. One is angel and one is Insaan. Did Allah SBT or Prophet SAS asked any Insaan to do sajda to another insaan?
Posted 4 months ago on 02 Jan 2012 5:11 #
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