PKPolitics Discuss » Social and Cultural Issues

Disasters of Sectarianism in Pakistan

(74 posts)
  1. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    I clearly remember the good old days of forty years ago when our society was in perfect state of religious harmony. There were not debates on controversial or sectarian issues. There were no speeches on controversial and sectarian issues on the loudspeakers of mosques. The Imams of mosques had simple lifestyle. They had no Parados/ Pajeros or enormeous bank balances.

    Sectarianism began to grow in Pakistan when the oil boom of the Middle East started pouring riyals and petrodollars into our religious institutions. The revolution of Iran further aggravated the situation when Khomeni vowed to spread his revolution to the other Islamic countries. The worst contribution to sectarianism was rendered by Zia’s govt. . The Zia’s govt. strengthened the sectarian organizations to take part in the Afghan war.

    At present, the same sectarianism has started causing bloodshed among the Muslims themselves. What is really feared is a civil war among Deobandis and Barelvis. Both factions are armed to teeth and growing hatred among them can result into a civil war anytime.

    All the sensible Muslim Pakistani brethern need to contribute their efforts to save our beloved from a possible civil war.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 12:41 #
  2. wantinsaf
    Member

    If we had produced Pakistanis and Muslims we would have never seen this what we are seeing right now.
    What we in Pakistan have are Mullas,liberals,Punjabis,Balochis,mohajers,sindhis,pathans,sunni,shias and many more kind of people.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 12:44 #
  3. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    wantinsaf bhai

    Sectarinsim arrived in Pakistan with foreign currencies. Forty years ago, an Imam of a mosque could hardly buy a motorcylce. Now you see the Imams travelling in heavily guarded Parados and Pajeros.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 12:47 #
  4. What about Rai Braili, Deo Band, Kufa, Hijjaz, Al Jizzair (saeedi and Sufi) etc? To name just a few

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 21:30 #
  5. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The religious institutions are more active in provoking sectarianism rather than imparting quality education and spiritual training.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jul 2010 3:59 #
  6. @Hussain Farooqui

    Your analysis is correct and fasadi molvis are responsible for spreading sectarianism throughout our society. These groups have become very powerful and possibility of a civil war cannot be ruled out. Word 'Jihad' is being widely misused by these sectarian groups to further their agenda of hatred and intolerance.

    My suggestion is to close all madrassas and give religious education in schools with an additional 1 hour class every day. Most of these madrassas are running their own non-approved curriculum and growing religious anarchy verifies my statement that these madrassas are not serving the purpose of giving religious education. I am not against religious education but I am against dubious madrassas and their ineffective way of teaching kids. A Govt approved curriculum can be taught throughout our school system (both private & public schools).

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jul 2010 17:07 #
  7. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    These maderesas were not functioning negatively before the foreign aid started pouring into them. Now they have gone so deviant that a total ban on them can't be ruled out for the safety and integrity of our beloved country. Religious education can be appropirately given in govt. managed schools.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jul 2010 17:57 #
  8. fayyaz214
    Member

    Problem may be more wide spread than we think. If a scholar of the calibre of Dr. Israr Ahmad can suggest that all new Ahmadies should be killed and NO ONE talks against it. What does it say about the our national psychology.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jul 2010 19:40 #
  9. Some of mosques/madarsas openly call for killing of all Shia people; Deobandi molvis call for breaking legs of all Brelvis. There is a mosque somewhere in Nagan Chowrangi run by SSP and my cousins have told me their fasadi molvis openly call for killing of all shia.
    One of my cousins with a Ph.D degree used to call shia sect as Kafirs and demanded their expulsion from Islam like Ahmadis and Qadiyanis.

    Fasadi molvis have distorted Islamic teachings to serve their vested interests and naive people believe in them.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jul 2010 19:56 #
  10. SugerMint
    Member

    @ Hussain Farooqui: Good analysis!

    I been to few Muslim countries and have not seen such divide among "Muslims" any where else. In elephants fight Pakistani people truly served as grass.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jul 2010 20:36 #
  11. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    SuperMint

    Your remark "In elephants fight Pakistani people truly served as grass" is based on bitter truth. Truly, Saudi Arabia and Iran often fight with each other on Pakistani soil and blood. Foreign funding in our religious affairs has pushed our tolerant and peace loving society to catastrophic conditions. Our religious society was established by the saints who distributed indescriminate love to all human beings. Islam did not spread in this area by the maderesas and mosques established by any foreign funding.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jul 2010 21:02 #
  12. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The recent bomb blast of Quetta is another contribution of sectarianism.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Sep 2010 3:59 #
  13. Not Possible
    Blocked

    Sorry, what you still dont understand that it is not shia vs sunni, before when a sunni mosque was attacked everyone naturaly assumed or falsly insuinated that it was done by shias.

    Media was less indpendent and Saudi petrol dollars kept the lies going. Now eveyrone knows that even sunni ulema, madaris and mosques are being attacked by Taliban, Lashker-e-Jhangvi and SSP. Same people that openly proclaimed to kill shias are now claiming openly to kill sunnis, Data Darbar being an example.

    It was always these people who attacked both shias and sunnis and tried to incite sectarian conflict becuase it would aid the Saudi agenda. The common enemy is the Saudi Wahabi/Salafi/Takfiri.

    Deoband school in India represented a hardline school of thought but in the past decade has also begun to be more radical because of Saudi influence, however it is still very mild as compared to Deoband version in Pakistan.

    First Saudis moved the Pashtoons and others to this more hardline version, and now atleast pashtoons have been moved full fledged to calling themselves Salafi or Takfiri.
    Never has a Deobandi mosque been attacked. Yet All minorites and Shias and Sunni Bareilvis attacked.

    It was never Sunni vs shia it was always Saudi Wahabi/Salafi/Takfriri fanatics terroising others.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Sep 2010 4:28 #
  14. You all might be discussing the issue but what about those who are creating this MESS of Sectarianism at this moment?????One thing I came to know after Bashing India, Israel and others that our BASHING is their FEEDBACK as our bashing is what reflects their SUCCESS in over all operations....For that very reason I have now Changed my mindset and started paying attention towards those Elements exist in Pakistan which are responsible for those kind of things as how much morally our Society is Going Downstream due to Lack of education and also cause our wrong Policies in Past....If we cant discuss ways to Overcome Moral crisis of our society how can we overcome External interferences in our country????That is why I have TOTALLY rejected the Ideas of Zaid Hamid, Hameed Gull and Imran Khan who promote FOREIGN HAND in every issue regarding Pakistan because our own society is giving those foreign hand Opportunity to STRIKE then why argue them everywhere...

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Sep 2010 4:31 #
  15. Regarding my above post....Same goes for Iran and Saudia Arabia who have also played their part in all that.....

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Sep 2010 4:39 #
  16. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Saudi Arabia and Iran are fulfilling their agendas through the funded Pakistanis. The Pakistanis funded by these two countries are the traitors of our beloved country.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Sep 2010 15:52 #
  17. ammarisb
    Member

    The demon of sectarianism poses a very serious threat towards the well-being of the state. The sectarian rift needs to be addressed as we must curb on the nefarious sectarian outfits that spread hate amongst the masses

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 Sep 2010 21:01 #
  18. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    ammarisb

    Sectarian elements are mostly funded from abroad. Firstly, we need to stop the inflow of Saudi and Irani Riyals.

    Posted 1 year ago on 07 Sep 2010 6:44 #
  19. rashidsaleem
    Member

    Blind violence based on religion has tormented our society in the past two decades. The way forward must be based on a much more liberal agenda to avoid such events in future.

    Posted 1 year ago on 07 Sep 2010 10:39 #
  20. HF, if memory serves aright, you and I are practically the only persons pleading for the revival of the Ummah and Turkey's role in it. I'm glad to say that Erdogan gave a scathing speech yesterday addressed to all Muslim countries, urging them to come to the rescue of flood-stricken Pakistan.

    I take this opportunity to point out as well that Iran has from the word go sent aid to Pakistan on a regular basis, but this fact has not yet caught the media's attention. So the rials are not only to encourage "sectarian dissension" as you said above.

    Posted 1 year ago on 07 Sep 2010 11:30 #
  21. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Mirza Ghalib

    True that Iran and Saudi Arabia have often helped Pakistan at the times of difficulty, which is something praiseworthy, but on the other hand they are funding the elements who are responsible for sectarianism. Sectarianism funded by Iran and Saudia has been very damaging to Pakistan. We need unity. Divisions on sectarian, linguistic, provincial, and regional basis are no more affordable.

    Posted 1 year ago on 08 Sep 2010 3:18 #
  22. shirazi
    Member

    Please correct my understanding of Shias and Sunnis ....

    Shias: A political group that wanted Hazrat Ali to succeed Prophet Mohammad.

    Sunnis: Anti-Shias and supported Abu Bakkar, Omer and then Usman over Ali after Prophet Mohammad.

    Why are we carrying on over 14 centuries old political battles between two rival groups from a different part of the globe? To me whatever Hazrat Ali or Hazrat Omer did is just a guideline it's not a religious binding. Isn't it like someone fighting over Benazir and Nawaz Sharif's political differences in Africa 1500 years from now? Of course BB and NS are no parallel to Khulfa e rashedeen by any stretch.

    At the end all 4 got power. It's beyond me why are we blowing people and that too while praying in mosques over that 1400 years old political rivalry.

    Posted 1 year ago on 08 Sep 2010 3:43 #
  23. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The differences between the Shias and Sunnis are not as wide as the sectarian religious leaders have widened. Sectarinism is boosted mostly to gain political points.

    The example of Yemen is enlightening to us. In Yemen, the Zaidi Shias and Sunnis offer prayers behind the imams of each other. Similar degree of tolerance is the need of Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 08 Sep 2010 6:10 #
  24. ammarisb
    Member

    @ Hussian Farooqi I second your opnion Pakistan has been a battlefield of Iran and Saudi Arab where they have fought their proxy wars. However now the sectarian outfits are collaborating with Taliban and Al-Qaeda and the nexus has grown. Unless we address the problem at the grass root level these organizations will foster.

    Posted 1 year ago on 08 Sep 2010 8:07 #
  25. @ammarisb

    Its no Use to blame Iran, Saudia, USA, India or anyone for this mess cause when our Mulvis have no Problem of being BRIBED by them and Teach Hatred against them then why arguing their responsibilities????Our Society needs to be fixed from the CORE which Require EDUCATION and no one is interested in Education in Pakistan everyone is Interested in Military or in Geo Strategic Capabilities of Pakistan...

    Posted 1 year ago on 08 Sep 2010 8:13 #
  26. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    qazi23

    Your ideas are agreeable. Our own religious leaders are responsible for sectarianism. The foreign powers fulfill their agendas by bribing them.

    Posted 1 year ago on 09 Sep 2010 8:48 #
  27. shirazi, you dissected the absurdity of the Shia-Sunni quarrel admirably. But just as Pakistan was also reaching the point of seeing the stupidity of it, a new actor entered the picture, namely the Wahabis, the richest of the sects. What damage they have done to Islam cannot be calculated on any human scale. The Deobandis, the Wahibi equivalent on the Subcontinent, would also have jointed the reconcialiation movement amongst the sects, but they too listened to the siren call of their original founders. Hence the present mess.

    HK, I still think we shouldn't lump Iran and KSA together. The former has almost clean hands compared to the latter. Don't forget the Shias have always been the biggest minority group in Pakistan. They didn't need much help from Iran to maintain or strengthen their position. The real relgious minority in terms of figures has always been the Wahabi. They are the most active in bribery and "religious" corruption.

    Posted 1 year ago on 09 Sep 2010 11:19 #
  28. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Dear Mirza Ghalib

    Till the revolution of Iran there were no bitter differences between the Sunnis and Shia of Pakistan. Khomeni announced the export of his revolution and then his announcement turned into a real action from Iran. Arif Ul Hussaini was the main Iran backed figure in Pakistan. He was killed in his tussle with Gen. Fazal-e-Haq.

    Once at a time of Hajj, they tried to cause trouble to the Saudi authorities. Resultantly, the action of Saudi police caused a lot of casualties of the Iranis.

    Interestingly, Saudi Arabia and Iran don't tolerate sectarianism in their own countries, but like to promote it into Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 09 Sep 2010 15:38 #
  29. zeshaan
    Member

    an Imam of a mosque could hardly buy a motorcylce

    HF,Bhai,
    buy a motorcylce Is too much at that time.Instead of a motor bike should be a cycle.

    Posted 1 year ago on 09 Sep 2010 15:45 #
  30. Not Possible
    Blocked

    @Hussain Farooqui

    Dont believe the propganda, we are too gullible to the zionist crap that is spread with the collabration of the Wahabis.

    7th Zil Hajj is the day when Rasool Allah(SAW) sent Hazrat Ali to tell Kuffar that they could never enter Makkah again. Even today each year you will see thousands of shias from Lebonan, Iraq, Iran gather at night in the Haram, each year the Leabenese especially those of Hezboallah try to raise slogands against US and Isreal.Yet the Saudi authorities stop them. They surround the whole inner compound of the Haram to stop this from happening.

    If you Inshallah get the chance to do Hajj in the future you will see what I say is true. I went for Hajj in 2007 and saw this with my own eyes. In the mide 90's I think it was when Iranians were taking out a similar procession chanting slogans against Isreal and US they were fired upon by the Saudi Wahabis.

    My hats off the MG he is 100% correct, I couldnt have said it better myself. Dont club Iranians and Saudis in one basket. Mr Khomeni wanted an Islamic renissance true but its wasnt meant to be a shia renicssance, Wahabi envious of the popular support Iranian revolution seemed be gathering, sent their petro dollars and propoganda machine in full swing to demonise Iran. A lot what you know is falsification.

    Posted 1 year ago on 09 Sep 2010 16:08 #
  31. Thanks NP, I agree as much with what you say above as you said you did with me.

    HF, We've had this exchange before. You accuse Iran of spreading sectarianism in Pakistan, which has not been my own experience of the thing. And then you turn around and find excuses for why the Saudis shot and killed Iranians during the Hajj! I can't even think of a greater crime of Muslims against Muslims than that, and you simply dismiss it in one sentence. Well, HF, I'm sorry to say that with the best will in the world I can't agree with you over this. Let me conclude bluntly: Iran and Saudi Arabia have wholly different agendas as regards the future of the Ummah. Iran will prove to be a better friend to Pakistan than Saudi Arabia will ever manage.

    Posted 1 year ago on 09 Sep 2010 16:29 #
  32. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Mirza Ghalib

    You expect Iran to play a positive role for Muslim Ummah, but my observation shows a different picture. Iran cooperated with the USA both in the cases of Afghanistan and Iraq. One of the opponent organizations of the Northern Alliance was an Iran backed organization.

    I bluntly condemn the double standards of Iran and Saudi Arabia. In both of these countries, no schools of thoughts other than their own are allowed to express their views, but they are funding heavily in the sectarian organizations of Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 6:13 #
  33. Not Possible
    Blocked

    1.In Iraq the Shia majority was brutaly persecuted by Saddam Bathists. Saddam even suppresed Sunni kurds. Saddam was a Salafi Agent. When these persecuted poeple had a chance to form their own govenment after Saddam, Saudi Wahabi/Salafi led Al-Qaeda started blowing up both the shia and sunni. Do you not know about the violence in Iraq? So Iran only defended those who were being killed.

    2.In Afghanistan Taliban slaughtered the Hazra based Northern allaince who were shia, after the massacare Iran tried to help. Taliban have also been converted to Salafee beliefs by the Saudis. Why do the Iranians not have the right to defend the helpless who are bing killed?

    3.I already told you what you heard about Iranians in KSA during Hajj was a lie and the reason for it. Hope you try to understand.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 7:27 #
  34. HF, If we simply carry on repeating the same arguments over and over again, we'll be at it till doomsday and still no closer to an agreement.

    I'm not infallible. Perhaps my vision of the start of a revived Ummah is wrong. I think the worldwide movement will begin with a linking up of four states: Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkey. Anyway, more about all this some other time. Take care.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 8:34 #
  35. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Not Possible

    The Irani Sunnis are not allowed even to build their mosques. This example is enough to understand that the Irnais want no religious divisions in their society. Why do they then support the minority Shias in Pakistan? Well, it is their right to maintain one religious order their country. They don't have any right to interfere in the religious affairs of the other countries.

    Mirza Ghalib

    Please try to analyze the things rationally rather emotionally. We are already an emotionally driven Ummah rather than rationally driven. Yes, United Ummah is the need of the time. Tell me what is the contribution of the Iranis in unifying the Muslim Ummah? They only created trouble in the other Muslim countries.

    Forty years ago, our religious society had perfect harmony. It is the involvement of Iran and Saudi Arabia which pushed our society to sectarian disasters.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 16:04 #
  36. Not Possible
    Blocked

    @HF

    The Irani Sunnis are not allowed even to build their mosques. This example is enough to understand that the Irnais want no religious divisions in their society. Why do they then support the minority Shias in Pakistan? Well, it is their right to maintain one religious order their country. They don't have any right to interfere in the religious affairs of the other countries.

    are you kidding me? what is your source for these lies, please please HF go to Iran, you are willing to believe such basless false propoganda, bhai you are an intelligent person dont fail your own inteligence by beliving such nonsesne. This actually proves that you have heard total bs from someone and completly believe them.

    In Iran even Jews have temples, sunnis live free freely in Iran. I have been there, have you?

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 16:14 #
  37. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Not Possible

    If you are willing to deny the facts to such extent, then I can't really convince on something right. Please try to be rational and fact oriented.

    No country has any right or justification to boost sectarianism in our country. The Pakistani Shias and Sunnis live in perfect harmony for centuries. It is the foreign intervention which is pushing our country to intolerance.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 16:18 #
  38. HF, we'll discuss this at leisure sometime. For today, suffice it to say that Iran and Pakistan have always had friendly relations. Iran is one of the leading Muslim countries from the point of view of governance, economy, etc. Turkey is yet another. My way of looking at things has nothing to do with emotions, HF. Visionary, you might call it eventually. I think it's rational enough.

    Now Iran knows perfectly well that they are not capable of leading the Ummah. The majority Sunni movement in Islam would be loathe to accept them as leaders. As for Turkey, acceptable from the Islamic point of view, intelligent Turks know their day came and went. They make a move, KSA will stick a knife in their backs.

    So both our two leading Islamic countries have picked on Pakistan to lead the Ummah. They are patiently awaiting a real revival in Pakistan itself, Muslim or otherwise, but a country that's up and running. Everyone round me is also of this opinion. The rest is as I said in my last posting.

    Now I suppose you are not going to agree with me. So why not tell me how you see the Ummah coming properly alive again. It would interest me greatly.

    P.S. HF, I, too, know Iran somewhat. There are no restrictions on religious freedom there of the kind you imply above.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 16:24 #
  39. Not Possible
    Blocked

    what facts HF, I have been to Iran you have not, you have misinformation not facts.

    Its like you telling me what my school was like because you heard it from someone.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 16:35 #
  40. naseemkhanan
    Member

    They don't have any right to interfere in the religious affairs of the other countries.

    NP
    Wise guy. What the **** you think you are doing by
    spreading pro Iran propaganda. Export of Iranian revolution to neighgboring middle eastern states is no secret, was and still is hot on agenda of Shia Iranian regime.

    And this is what they have planned; are doing with UAE, Bahrain and Iraq. Exporting Shia revolution!

    You are not the only one who has been to Iran. Come out of your **** hole and be part of this world.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 16:36 #
  41. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Mirza Ghalib

    As discussed earlier on different threads of this forum, Reza Shah Pehalwi, Shah Faisal and Bhutto were planning great many projects of common interests. All three charismatic leaders of the Muslim Ummah became the victims of the CIA conspiracies. RCD was quite functional at the time of Reza Shah. Super Highway was one of the projects of RCD. We need Charismatic personalities like the ones mentioned above.

    Interventions in the countries of each other will cause further divisions to the Ummah.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 16:42 #
  42. HF, I agree wholeheartedly with your views above, as much regarding the past as regarding what should be done in the future.

    As far as I know, Iran had decided as all post-revolutionary countries have had to do that exporting the Iranian Revolution would bring nothing to anyone. But Naseem above and you yourself seem to imply that has not been the case. You talk of Pakistan where Shia governments have been as common as Sunni leadership. Why, we've even had a Qadiyani at the head of the government not so long ago. So I don't see what Iran would stand to gain by stirring up trouble in Pakistan. Naseem brought up the case of UAE, Bahrein and Iraq. Now all three are Shia majority countries. Again, what would Iran stand to gain by stirring up trouble for the people there? Demolished Iraq, in particular, owes its lamentable state at present to US genocidal attacks on the people of this poor country. It's only too easy to blame everything on Iran and forgot who the real culprits are. Ditto Afghanistan. Oh, well.

    Believe what you like, HF, Naseem. But you will not prove friends of the coming Ummah if you drag sectarianism into it from the start.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:06 #
  43. Not Possible
    Blocked

    @ Naseem

    I am not an Iranian agent like a Saudi agent like you, I have no desire to convery any message to the likes of you.You who spread misinformation to people like HF.Let HF go to Iran himself, if I lie I will be proven wrong, If you lie you will be proven wrong.

    What shia revolution in Bahrain? Bahrain is a very small country i.e. small population, and has a majority shia population why would they need a shia revolution?

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:10 #
  44. naseemkhanan
    Member

    MG
    Iranian backed miscreants have been arrested recently. This is not the only incident of 'exporting Shia revolution' to the Middle East.
    Iran claims Tumb Islands that belong to UAE including claim to Bahrain as Iranian territory.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:18 #
  45. Not Possible
    Blocked

    @ Naseem

    your are a basless accusations of a fitna mongering guy,

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:24 #
  46. naseemkhanan
    Member

    I am enough for neocon propagandists like you. When you embark upon a rhetoric of spreading lies and half truths on a public forum then better be careful.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:31 #
  47. Not Possible
    Blocked

    @ Naseem
    great answer? useless bs, when you couldnt come up with a reasonable answer.

    You are a lie in yourself, dont know whos agenda you serve by spreading fitna amongst the ummah.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:40 #
  48. naseemkhanan
    Member

    I know you now and what you are here for. Barey aiey they Iran ki story ley kr.
    Good day!

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:43 #
  49. Not Possible
    Blocked

    @Naseem
    ????
    what do you know, bro try to do an honest evaluation of yourself and what you are doing ok, know that Allah knows whats truly in your heart and the lies you spread.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 17:49 #
  50. Stop of flow of foreign aid from Saudia and Iran and 50% problem of sectarianism in Pakistan will be solved.

    Posted 1 year ago on 10 Sep 2010 18:07 #

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