Do you think Imran Khan is being controlled by Establishment?

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Do you think Imran Khan is being controlled by Establishment?

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rasheed
Member

Why do you think or not think so?

I kindly request everyone to remain polite

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:15 #
insaftak
Member

No.

This could go in one of many establishment/Imran Khan related thread.

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/army-isi-will-be-kept-under-check-imran-khan

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:17 #
Bawa
Member

لا ریب فیہ

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:18 #
choudhryhashmet
Blocked

Absolutely not, Imran cannot be controlled by anyone!!!

Establishment cannot afford to have such an impulsive, reactionary and brave leader as their man in Pakistani politics. Establishment could not control a person with mediocre intelligence like Nawaz Sharif how can they bet their money on Imran.

Personally, I think establishment is closely watching Imran because they know if Imran can garner enough support to form an majority government than he might be dangerous to establishment.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:21 #
banjarbayabaan
Members

He can't be controlled by anyone. Jo Allah se darte hain woh establishment ya us ke hawaryoon se Kabhi control naheen Ho sakte.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:22 #
mangoman
Blocked

Wrong question rasheed.

The real question should be...is Nawaz $harif really anti-establishment or only a topi dramay baaz...considering how he was conceived in the test tube of military establishment and general Jilani...and could a child (Nawaz $harif) be anti-mother (establishment)?

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:35 #
rasheed
Member

http://awesomescreenshot.com/0feo78se7

Source: http://www.facebook.com/ali.moeen.nawazish?sk=wall

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:39 #
choudhryhashmet
Blocked

^Ahem, Ahem!!

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:49 #
aftab arif
Member

Lagah Roh Dosto...sometimes we are Jew sponsored, sometimes we are tile smugglers, sometimes we are Taliban Supporters and then we are internet fan club and now we are Establishment supporters...but what ever we are, the golden days of 2/3 majority are most certainly over...

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 20:53 #
mangoman
Blocked

^ Noon league after been badly exposed now, will definitely be struggling to win a few seats in even Punjab, in the next general elections, let alone 2/3 majority or even a simple majority.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:06 #
scandinavian
Member

How funny these babies from noon league ;) Now they have started to refer to FB "analysis" of deeply grave situation. Well done Pervez (rasheed). Good to see you back after counting the chairs at Minar-e-Pakistan ;)

The answer to your question is a big NO. Imran is controlled by principles and not by army, establishment or ISI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UNN1Zfy4XE0

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:21 #
rasheed
Member

Another question ... Whom would you vote for if you have the following two options in your local constituency?

1- An MNA/MPA who has history of changing political parties for power and his support of dictator, even when dictator is sacking all of superior judiciary through PCO?

2- An MNA/MPA who has corruption allegations with no conviction, but he stood against dictator for last 10 years and fought for independent judiciary?

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:26 #
saladin89
Member

There is propaganda going around from system quo party supporters and some media that Ik is controlled by establishment. To me this story has been began by noon league factions, and now some PPP are using the same rhetoric.

In the beginning it use to be yahudi lobby, then it became Taliban Khan and now it is become establishment stooge.

Now let me make it clear the supporters of Imran Khan are genuine supoporters who mainly think that Imran Khan can get us out of this mess that we are in. FACT there is no doubt about that. Video evidence and speaking to people myself suggests this is the case that it is genuine, and nothiung to so with the influence of establishment.

What do establishment want?
To get a correct answer u will have to speak to them directly.
But this my take on it

Establishment is sick and tired of this so called war on terror, there would rather be concentrating on India. Secondly be government being strong that also would mean more money for them. With the present government as they are corrupt to the core, economy in tatters, this will be not beneficial to them. So I would think they would want a change from these incompetent, musical chair leaders. So i would think they would want Imran Khan, unless they are crooks to the core like our hukumran, then they would not want IK. So my opinion is that they would be pro Imran, as to them as well he is the best option.

To awam and establishemnt it should be PTI.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:32 #
outspokenloud
Blocked

nooners want establishment arrange an "IJI" once more so that N$ can become Ameer ul Momineen.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:34 #
choudhryhashmet
Blocked

While we are talking about facebook, here is the latest from Abrar ul Haq:

with reference to omer farooq and many others lovely friends I want to ask that should I make my own party or join PTI to save Pakistan ????? wot do you people want ?????

http://www.facebook.com/Abrarulhaq

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:34 #
saladin89
Member

@rasheed

Let me make it clear for u:-

stablishment or noon league?

For me it would be army. Not saying that army can get us out of this crisis in Pakistan, but compared to noon league it is the better option.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:36 #
Dusky
Member

@Rasheed: Ali moeen Nawazish asked "which one supported" and you twisted it to "control by".

Talk about twisting the words;)

From same logic, is it right assessment if we say "Nawaz Sharif controlled by Saudis, since he was supported by them"??

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:36 #
banjarbayabaan
Members

This is the time to stand with someone who has given new hope to the people of this country as compared to those who have looted this nation on different names. My vote and support is for Imran khan and his candidates after testing all other parties many times.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:37 #
saladin89
Member

@dusky

I would disagree with in this context I would say Nawaz Sharif under the thumb of US!

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:38 #
wasimibr
Member

@rasheed
Another question ... Whom would you vote for if you have the following two options in your local constituency?
1- An MNA/MPA who has history of changing political parties for power and his support of dictator, even when dictator is sacking all of superior judiciary through PCO?
2- An MNA/MPA who has corruption allegations with no conviction, but he stood against dictator for last 10 years and fought for independent judiciary?"

These two key questions will decide the fate of Pti candidates in each constituency.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:41 #
rasheed
Member

Neither Imran Khan, nor Nawaz Sharif or Asif Zardari is going to stand in elections from all 272 NA seats in Pakistan.

The nation is going to vote for their local candidates, who are most likely connected to their local areas from long time.

Keeping that in mind, please tell whom would you vote for?

1- An MNA/MPA who has history of changing political parties for power and his support of dictator, even when dictator is sacking all of superior judiciary through PCO?

2- An MNA/MPA who has corruption allegations with no conviction, but he stood against dictator for last 10 years and fought for independent judiciary?

Thanks

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:47 #
Dusky
Member

@Rasheed: We are awaiting reply.

From same logic, is it right assessment if we say "Nawaz Sharif controlled by Saudis, since he was supported by them"??

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:51 #
rasheed
Member

@saladin89,

I don't want to divert the debate to another direction, but for the correction of records, let me remind:

- It was establishment (aka Pakistan Army/ISI) who whitewashed and installed Zardari regime through NRO.

- It was establishment (aka Pakistan Army/ISI) who removed the entire judiciary on 3rd November 2007.

Any sensible person would not have any doubt that establishment is the mother of all evils in Pakistan.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:55 #
rasheed
Member

@Dusky,

You can open a new topic and I will reply there. Promise!

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:56 #
wasimibr
Member

I will never vote for option#1 because the person who has sold himself for his own greed and benefits in the past, most likely he would again switch to the ruling party if his own party fails to form govt. Such politicians are for sale every time, just they look for a fair price.
#2 option: I will vote for such candidates as he has stood for a national cause.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:57 #
scandinavian
Member

@ALL

I agree with would say don't trust ANYTHING from nooners - especially NOT these days. They already were deceptive, but they have just received a wake up call at Minar-e-Pakistan. This wake up call has made them totally mad and they have started their treacherous propaganda games and LIES to regain lost supporters, but that will all end up in failure. All their lies are being exposed one-by-one. Don't take their stories for granted before an investigation.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:57 #
rasheed
Member

@Scandinavian,

Lets be constructive for a moment and think that you and me don't support any political party. Now please tell which candidate you would vote for.

I am not doing any propaganda against Sir Imran Khan after his Minaar-e-Pakistan Jalsa.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 21:59 #
scandinavian
Member

"Any sensible person would not have any doubt that establishment is the mother of all evils in Pakistan."

I agree to some extent and also remember that Piplyas and nooners are the PRODUCTS of the establishment, and the desire of the establishment has always been to promote politicians who can be controlled. Now a politician=Imran Khan has arrived whom the establishment CANNOT control.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:01 #
scandinavian
Member

Your questions are TOO simplistic and too constructed to be answered straight away.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:02 #
rasheed
Member

@Scandinavian,

But Haroon Rasheed, Nusrat Javed and Abdul Sattar Edhi confirms that Imran Khan was launched by Army/ISI:

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-confirms-imran-khan-is-isi-man-creation-of-hamid-gul-and-others

Even Imran Khan went with General Hamid Gul to convince Edhi to join politics, after which Edhi migrated to London for a while.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:06 #
rasheed
Member

@Scandinavian,

Your questions are TOO simplistic and too constructed to be answered straight away.

The answer is simple. Just rank the crimes!

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:08 #
scandinavian
Member

@rasheed

You can find my answers in the same thread!

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:09 #
rasheed
Member

@Scandinavian,

Oh Thanks, I got your answer from that thread. You said:

I don't care if agencies/army, establishment, journalists, businessmen, landlords, industrialist, foreign powers, rehrhi walas, pakorhey walas etc. are supporting Imran Khan. What I am concerned about is his agenda and his vision. As long as he is on the right track and don't compromise on his vision then I DON'T MIND! Got it?

My take:

- It was establishment (aka Pakistan Army/ISI) who whitewashed and installed Zardari regime through NRO.

- It was establishment (aka Pakistan Army/ISI) who removed the entire judiciary on 3rd November 2007.

Any sensible person would not have any doubt that establishment is the mother of all evils in Pakistan.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:12 #
asif65
Member

from Abrar ul Haq:
http://awesomescreenshot.com/04co7e4a4

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:18 #
hypocrite
Member

Any sensible person would not have any doubt that establishment is the mother of all evils in Pakistan

___________

Rasheed sahib

Three questions:

a) Who and what fostered this "evil" to beocme a monster and the most powerful force in Pakistan? Who tolerated it for so long?

b) And who and how can this "evil" be eradicated from Pakistan?

c) Is this "evil" a "cuase that has created effects" or is an "effect of some other causes"?

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:18 #
scandinavian
Member

A-Yes, I agree that they used their former slaves to serve a dirty purpose once again.

B- Yes, and initially PPP and PML-N opposed this move. Later they both were silent, but since PML-N was sitting in a friendly opposition they had to do something and made a deal through the Americans (Wikileaks tells us that)to restore the CJP. My take is the return from Gujranwala was a part of the deal.

C- Look at my answer here: http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/edit.php?id=277568

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:19 #
mangoman
Blocked

@ rasheed,

>>Any sensible person would not have any doubt that establishment is the mother of all evils in Pakistan.<<

---------------

True.

Most of us don't have any doubt that establishment is the mother of Nawaz $harif (N$ being one of the evils, a major one that is) in Pakistan.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:28 #
saladin89
Member

@rasheed

The diverting was done by u for the question relating to two MNA who would u go for, I just made a it simple and understood what u are getting at., Army or noon league, that was the whole point regarding the two MNA's.

I am not saying that army is perfect however my point was they are the better option amongst the two.

It was US that installed Zardari, because they wanted a puppett that would do more for them and secondly the awam had gone agianst Musharraf and wanted a change.

It was US influence when RD killed people in Lahore and hukumran and establishment poohed themselves and let him go.

It was Nawaz Sharif that did a deal with dictator and lied to the people that he did not.

- It is politicians like Nawaz and Zardari that have looted from poor and made billions of pounds out of this. Under the system of judiciary what laws do these hukumran follow???.

At the time of Nawaz Sharif government he sent goons around to cause havoc in Parliament, it was recently that his goons went to the police station and freed one of there inmates.

U are talking about politicians that have misused there power and never ever followed the laws set in Pakistan.

In fact brother there are some that say Musharraf period was better than now.

Any sensible person would not have any doubt that politicians are worse than establisshment in Pakistan.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:39 #
rasheed
Member

@hypocrite,

It is the other way around. It was actually establishment that never allowed political system or democracy to evolve from day one, who could control the establishment. When one party is holding gun, there is very little other party can do.

Regarding your questions:

- It was actually establishment that made itself more and more powerful under military governments. Army spread their businesses and installed their officers in top positions of civil institutions to become more powerful. Establishment is always pushed back towards their original role during civilian rules.

- In my opinion, this establishment can be brought to their full constitutional role if there are just 3 full cycles of political governments of 5 years each. It has be slow and painful process, but if other countries like Turkey can do it, then Pakistan can also do it. Politicians who try to do this swiftly are eliminated by establishment.

- The purpose of this evil is same as in most other Muslim countries. Control the Resources!

Just imagine if we can cut down the army budget from countries 50% to 40%, and add that 10% to education (currently 2%), where would be standing in couple of years.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:41 #
saladin89
Member

@rasheed

Take away the IK factor then we have

A leader who is a crook, and does nothing for people and sings to the tunes of US!

A leader that sometimes misuses his power, and does very little for awam, however still sings to the tunes of US!

Which one will u choose.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:49 #
rasheed
Member

@saladin89,

Some questions:

- Did Army Chief, General Musharraf issue the NRO or George Bush?

- Did General Kiyani (ISI Chief) go to London to meet Rehman Malik and Benazir or American CIA head?

- If every single politician is product of Army, then is Army worse or politicians?

Now some facts:

- It was army who sacked judiciary and politicians who restored it

- It was accepted by ISI Chief General Pasha on floor of National Assembly that he arranged the release of Raymond Davis.

- Drone attacks were allowed by Musharraf and were started under Musharraf's Army rule.

- 115 Billion rupees of Musharraf corruption (Army Rule) were recovered and put back into bank by Public Accounts Committee this year.

- It is army who has kidnapped thousands of civilians and still keeps on doing so, not politicians.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:52 #
rasheed
Member

@saladin89,

Unfortunately, our electoral system does not allow direct elections of leaders in Pakistan. We still have to vote for local candidate and I am sure you won't answer the simple question :-)

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:54 #
saladin89
Member

@rasheed

my answer to your puzzle has been given on the post above yours. Who will u choose?

I am not here to defend army, they have done wrongs but my point is that they are better than PPP and Noon league, not by far but better.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:56 #
saladin89
Member

@ rasheed

please answer mine.

Your question regarding MNA's, despite your thinking behind the question is questionable. I will say if the option is given between the two I choose 1.

Now who do you choose from the question I put forward?
That is a more realistic scenerio!

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:58 #
insaftak
Member

Dear Rasheed & Noon Leaguers Please report to this thread

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/rs-86-billion-corruption-in-punjab-government

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 22:59 #
rasheed
Member

@saladin89,

If you were comparing army to politicians in any other country, you would be sent to doctor for insanity check.

If army even thinks about doing politics, they will be committing treason by breaking their oath. Any takeover is punishable by death.

Please note that everything in Pakistan has to work by constitution, on which both politicians and army take oath.

The same constitution says that:

- Corruption is smaller crime
- Murder and Kidnapping is bigger crime
- Breaking constitution is biggest crime

So if you are fan of some illegal rulers who do biggest crime, but hate rules who do smaller crime, then God help you!

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 23:04 #
insaftak
Member

@ Rasheed

" Corruption is smaller crime"

nice job defending your corrupt leader N$

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 23:06 #
rasheed
Member

@saladin89,

I already answered that I can't choose the leader as the constitution does not allow direct voting of leaders. The leaders are voted by lower and/or upper houses to become PM or President.

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 23:06 #
rasheed
Member

@insaftak,

Nice way of supporting biggest criminal :-)

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 23:07 #
insaftak
Member

@ rasheed

I don't support General Zia ul- Haq, Never have & Never Will.

:))

Posted 6 months ago on 12 Nov 2011 23:11 #