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Drone attacks continue

(534 posts)
  1. @aftab
    "so would that have stopped after Saddam had gone, probably NOT until all demands of the Yanks were met.

    The UN which was/is the intercessor between war and peace would not give the green light to the US and also they own public would be up in arms because of the Disaster that was Iraq."
    What bvllsh!t! The "UN which was/is the intercessor between war and peace" is hilarious. You are also unaware that UN NEVER passed a resolution authorizing military force so that "UN giving green light to US" is pure fantasy of yours (There was only one such draft resolution put forth by US and UK but IT NEVER PASSED).

    And if you were able to recall any bit of history of the events since 1991 as per Iraq, you would have known Iraq/Saddam met every demand made by US but as soon as it was met, US would come up with another one (the sole intent was to attack Iraq no matter what).

    "So in that context had Gaddafi gone..."
    SO your basic context is WRONG. Gaddafi or no Gaddafi, UN resolution or no UN resolution, thngs would have been where they are.

    "here Gaddafi should have been advised by his lieutenants too hand over power in an orderly and peaceful transition involving only Libyans to decide who they want as they leaders"
    Laughable! Might as well add "And they lived happily ever after. The End."

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 16:24 #
  2. aftab arif
    Member

    @ Nota

    No point going round in circles, most of the blame as i see it lies at the feet of Gaddafi and you see it at the feet of the Yanks.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 17:57 #
  3. @aftab
    Ah so you don't want to seek the truth and stay 'lakeer ka fakeer' (jhoot ki lakeer drawn by the very Yanks, btw). No problem ;-)

    P.S. At least acknowlegde that you were DEAD WRONG in your claim there was a UN resolution authorizing US to attack Iraq. Like I said, that is a BIG LIE. Or prove me wrong and tell me which such UN resolution is there. ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 18:24 #
  4. aftab arif
    Member

    @ Nota

    What are you talking about man, when did i say they was a resolution, it was unilateral actions by the Yanks and the Brits in the Iraq war.

    P.S. Lets continue this on the Libyan thread.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 18:34 #
  5. @aftab
    "when did i say they was a resolution"

    You said:
    "The UN which was/is the intercessor between war and peace would not give the green light to the US"
    The only way UN gives a "green light" is by passing a resolution.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 18:38 #
  6. aftab arif
    Member

    @ aftab

    That's right about the green light from the UN, but i was talking about an attack on Libya as a green light not Iraq because as i pointed out above the Yanks would have liked a resolution on Iraq but did not get one.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 18:46 #
  7. well you fooled me ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 18:52 #
  8. aftab arif
    Member

    I don't fool people or try too, not because it makes me look good but because one day i will be accountable for it.

    P.S. BTW i don't see the Yanks as some saviour on the contrary, but i believe they do things which has the backing of the world community or at very least the backing of it's Western allies and Middle Eastern puppets.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Apr 2011 18:54 #
  9. Pakistan seeks Saudi aid on US strikes

    Pakistani government has urged Saudi Arabia to exert pressure on the United States to halt the unauthorized drone attacks that have claimed the lives of many civilians in tribal regions.

    Source

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Apr 2011 11:11 #
  10. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Revolutionary

    Is Saudia in any position to exert pressure on the USA? Isn't it that Saudia can only convey Pakistan's pleading to the USA?

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Apr 2011 13:55 #
  11. ڈرون حملے ملکی خود مختاری کے خلاف ہے یہ بند ہونے چاہییں - رضا ربانی
    Source

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Apr 2011 17:24 #
  12. This just came in.

    What about Dharna, test of Kiyani/MoFA/PM beghairti ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 May 2011 11:08 #
  13. Kiyani: "We never said anything against drone stikes in our last release, so shove off!"

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 May 2011 11:23 #
  14. scandinavian
    Member

    And as usual the cr@p of "suspected militants" killed. True or false - Pakistan need to take action against this injustice....sigh. Our Napak generals will not do that. instead they will blame the politicians for making deals. Keep on trying your fooling tactis. We all know that it is you (army( who run this dirty business.

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 May 2011 11:28 #
  15. Of course, Kiyani meant commando raids, not drones!

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 May 2011 11:31 #
  16. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    USA will keep on adding insult to injury unless we establish ourselves as a united and strong nation.

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 May 2011 12:30 #
  17. Zoab_Khan
    Member

    Pathetic. Pakistan people keep sleeping. Because when you wake up U.S. won't care what you say or do. The need was to punch the bully in the mouth. But.....

    Pakistan has been pushed from being an up and coming country to a failed state in a matter of 6 years all due to the non-innovative leadership that it has. This is the importance of a smart individual and not a "yes man". This is the importance of a advanced degree. The current lot are fake degree holders who can't think out of the box. They allllll have one goal. How do we stay in power.

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 May 2011 14:25 #
  18. @Zoab_Khan
    Spot on brother. Lets ditch them when elections are held.

    Posted 1 year ago on 06 May 2011 14:27 #
  19. shriq
    Member

    Drone attacks continue:

    But nobody is giving it any attention anymore.

    http://www.aaj.tv/2011/05/drone-strike-kills-7-in-north-waziristan/

    Posted 1 year ago on 23 May 2011 17:19 #
  20. aftab arif
    Member

    To begin this discussion, I recognise that many readers may discount the institutions and treaties of international law as mere manipulations by Western powers to impose their will on developing nations like Pakistan. If one looks to organisations like the International Criminal Court, their prosecutions have primarily targeted African leaders. In this respect, international courts are similar to the domestic courts of Europe and the US, where possessing dark-skin often subjects one to greater scrutiny by the law.

    Though the international tribunals may be influenced by its ‘elite members’ who enjoy immunity from the law they subject others to, few alternative options remain for Pakistan to successfully challenge the violation of its sovereignty. One example of the ways in which Pakistan is protesting the recent incursion by Nato that led to the death of two dozen Pakistani soldiers is by shutting down American interests like Shamsi Airbase and supply routes to Afghanistan. However, these strategies have been attempted previously and failed; usually the US issues some threats and promises to the Pakistan military and things return to “normal” (if such a state exists in US-Pak relations).

    Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can stop him from lynching (hanging) me, and I think that’s pretty important.” In this manner, there are several international principles that support Pakistan’s claims that the US has violated international law in trampling on their sovereignty. The United Nation’s Charter Article 2 states the organisation is based on “the principle of sovereign equality of all its members”, and that all members must refrain “from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state.”

    Therefore, there is an actionable claim by Pakistan against the US for the drone attacks carried out on its territory, leading to the death of hundreds of civilians. A nation in Pakistan’s position can file such a claim through various international venues including the International Court of Justice (ICC) or the International Criminal Court (ICJ). However, there is a cost to bringing an action before an international tribunal. Not only will bringing such claims subject Pakistan to international scrutiny of its own domestic policies, but the US is likely to raise valid defenses against Pakistan’s allegations.

    The first case Pakistan could lodge against the US is with respects to how the drone program violates its sovereignty, for which the US will raise the defense of “consent.” While international law bans the use of force, under the principle of consent, a nation may use force on the territory of another nation, so long as the other nation agrees to allow the action. Therefore, if the US was brought before an international tribunal, it would likely uncover the secret agreements between themselves and Pakistani leaders giving permission and consent for the drone program.

    This is only one part of Pandora’s surprise for Pakistan. The International Court of Justice also has a requirement that a nation must exhaust all local remedies before attempting to bring a claim before the court. With the accusations and evidence presumably to be presented by the US, the ICJ could find the case against the US as ‘unripe’. This would mean that Pakistan’s highest domestic court, the Supreme Court, would have to initiate a case to determine the liability of Pakistan’s top brass in consenting to a violation of the nation’s sovereignty through secret deals with the US.

    The other issue that could be raised by Pakistan is the recent cross border Nato raid that led to the destruction of two military outposts and the death of two dozen soldiers. The International Criminal Court was established by the Rome Convention, and aims to prosecute any crimes of war and aggression with universal jurisdiction. This means that any nation that has signed the Convention is obliged to arrest any suspected violator of the Convention, including military personnel.

    This would mean that if Nato’s cross border raid was found to be a crime of aggression, any individual from the Obama Administration involved in the decision could face arrest and criminal penalties. However, the treaty also bans all forms of ethnic cleansing, through murder or forced disappearance, which has been an issue raised in Balochistan. This means that while Pakistan could bring a claim against the US for a crime of aggression, Pakistan would have to subject itself to inquiries on Balochistan, a topic the military would much rather avoid.

    However, fortunately or unfortunately for these nations, neither Pakistan nor the US have consented to the Convention or the International Criminal Court. Further, under Article 98 of the Convention, nations may grant immunity to one another and relieve themselves of the obligation to arrest and deliver any potential violators. Based on their historical relationship and the shared critique that the Rome agreement tramples on the sovereignty of nations, the US and Pakistan would be likely to make such an agreement.

    International treaties, at least nominally, attempt to prosecute crimes not nations. Therefore, a nation should ensure their hands are clean of international crimes, or that they are willing to air their ‘dirty laundry’ in the international forum before they bring a case against another state.

    When it comes to a violation of sovereignty, Pakistan would have to look introspectively to its generals and civilians who created secret deals with the US and “consented” to their military action. Further, before bringing a case to the International Criminal Court, Pakistan would need to sign the Rome Convention and remove its immunity agreement with the US

    This would subject Pakistan’s own leaders to the Court’s inquiries and criminal convictions. Which brings us full circle in the paradox of sovereignty in international law: in attempting to defend ones sovereignty by legal means, a nation must partly sacrifice its own sovereignty to the international tribunals and rules.

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/12/03/sovereignty-pakistan%E2%80%99s-pandora%E2%80%99s-box.html

    Posted 5 months ago on 03 Dec 2011 13:49 #
  21. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    http://politics.salon.com/2011/11/05/the_drone_mentality/

    International human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith describes a meeting he had in Pakistan with residents from the Afghan-Pakistani border region that has been relentlessly bombed by American drones; if I had one political wish this week, it would be that everyone who supports (or acquiesces to) President Obama’s wildly accelerated drone attacks would read this:

    The meeting had been organized so that Pashtun tribal elders who lived along the Pakistani-Afghan frontier could meet with Westerners for the first time to offer their perspectives on the shadowy drone war being waged by the Central Intelligence Agency in their region. Twenty men came to air their views; some brought their young sons along to experience this rare interaction with Americans. In all, 60 villagers made the journey. . . .

    On the night before the meeting, we had a dinner, to break the ice. During the meal, I met a boy named Tariq Aziz. He was 16. As we ate, the stern, bearded faces all around me slowly melted into smiles. Tariq smiled much sooner; he was too young to boast much facial hair, and too young to have learned to hate.

    The next day, the jirga lasted several hours. I had a translator, but the gist of each man’s speech was clear. American drones would circle their homes all day before unleashing Hellfire missiles, often in the dark hours between midnight and dawn. Death lurked everywhere around them. . . .

    On Monday, [Tariq] was killed by a C.I.A. drone strike, along with his 12-year-old cousin, Waheed Khan. The two of them had been dispatched, with Tariq driving, to pick up their aunt and bring her home to the village of Norak, when their short lives were ended by a Hellfire missile.

    My mistake had been to see the drone war in Waziristan in terms of abstract legal theory — as a blatantly illegal invasion of Pakistan’s sovereignty, akin to President Richard M. Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia in 1970.

    But now, the issue has suddenly become very real and personal. Tariq was a good kid, and courageous. My warm hand recently touched his in friendship; yet, within three days, his would be cold in death, the rigor mortis inflicted by my government.

    And Tariq’s extended family, so recently hoping to be our allies for peace, has now been ripped apart by an American missile — most likely making any effort we make at reconciliation futile.

    Posted 5 months ago on 03 Dec 2011 20:46 #
  22. aftab arif
    Member

    The Pakistani military will shoot down any US drone that intrudes the country's airspace under a new defence policy in which troops have been given greater liberty to respond to incursions by NATO and allied forces in Afghanistan, according to a media report.

    "Any object entering into our airspace, including US drones, will be treated as hostile and be shot down," a senior unnamed Pakistani military official was quoted as saying by NBC News.

    http://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asia/pak-s-new-defence-policy-military-can-hit-drones_746422.html

    Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 12:36 #
  23. cutenice62
    Member

    mubarakaan :)

    Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 12:51 #
  24. bsobaid
    Member

    Either the two countries have reached an understanding to stop drones, or atleast for the time being or it is usual bs.

    Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 15:57 #
  25. zaln
    Member

    ڈرون نے جو کام کرنا تھا وہ کر لیا ، آئی ایس ے کا پلان تھا کہ طالبان کو وزیرستان میں مضبوط کرنا اور افغانستان میں اپنی مرضی کی حکومت قائم کرنا ،پر ان طالبانوں نے پاکستان میں پھیلنا شررو کر دیا اور ساتھ ہی امریکا نے دروں مار مار کر طالبان اور القاعدہ کے بڑے بڑے سورماؤں کو اڑا دیا اب اسامہ بھی مہمان خانے سی نکلا اور مارا گیا
    ڈبل گیم اب آھستہ آھستہ اپنی موت آپ مر رہا ہے

    Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 16:13 #
  26. aftab arif
    Member

    You were there on the ground to know that everyone killed was a Militant and not an innocent.

    Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 17:31 #
  27. aftab arif
    Member

    http://rt.com/news/us-drone-pakistan-militants-547/

    Posted 4 months ago on 11 Jan 2012 18:16 #
  28. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    BBC News: US drone strike in Pakistan 'kills five militants'


    The US drone campaign has reportedly killed dozens of militants and civilians

    23 January 2012 Last updated at 08:03 GMT
    --------------------------------------------------------
    A drone attack in a volatile tribal region of north-west Pakistan has killed at least five suspected militants, officials say.

    The attack took place at Degan village in the North Waziristan tribal area, close to the Afghan border.

    Analysts say that the US briefly halted drone strikes in the region in November after a Nato attack accidentally killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

    Attacks by the unmanned aircraft appear to have resumed in early January.

    The militants, who are believed to be from Turkmenistan, were killed when missiles hit their vehicle, local administration officials told the BBC.

    Witnesses say the vehicle was going from Degan to Datta Khel in North Waziristan and said that it was engulfed by fire after the missile strike. A nearby house was also damaged.

    ..continued..
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    References:

    (1) AFP: US drone strike kills four in Pakistan: officials
    By Hasbanullah Khan (AFP) – 3 hours ago

    (2) Wikipedia Page: Drone attacks in Pakistan
    (3) Google Maps: U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan
    (4) LWJ: Charting the data for US airstrikes in Pakistan, 2004 - 2012

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    This non-sense is still continuing thanks to "our" "bay-ghairti" (in urdu). For how long ?

    Where are the Muslims ?

    What is the response of Muslims ?

    Posted 4 months ago on 23 Jan 2012 10:10 #
  29. sandman
    Member

    "five suspected militants"...

    Its always "suspected" militants, isn't it?

    This is nothing less then murder.

    Posted 4 months ago on 23 Jan 2012 11:31 #
  30. You guys first started this topi drama of wholesale jihad back in the 1980s to defeat then Soviet Unions with the help of US dollars, Saudi Riyals and logistical support of right wing faction of Pak army headed by Gen Zia. When I opposed all this topi drama of gathering mercenaries (from all over the world) inside Pakistan, I was called unpatriotic, traitor and even non-muslim by my relatives and friends. Drone attacks is the natural result and continuity of that mistake we made in the 1980s.

    Such attacks will now continue to get rid of all those mercenaries whom we hired, trained, financed and used.

    Posted 4 months ago on 23 Jan 2012 13:44 #
  31. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Sweettruth: What are you implying ?

    What do you mean to say ?

    Posted 4 months ago on 23 Jan 2012 15:08 #
  32. @hariskhan

    What you sow what you reap!

    Posted 4 months ago on 23 Jan 2012 15:24 #
  33. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Sweettruth: Invalid point.

    Drone attacks are not because of Afghan Jihad.

    Posted 4 months ago on 23 Jan 2012 16:19 #
  34. @hariskhan

    I call it Afghan fasad since it has brought nothing but destruction, extremism and terrorism in the region. Drone attacks are natural and a direct result of financing mercenaries during 1980's and now you have to get rid of those mercenaries.

    Posted 4 months ago on 23 Jan 2012 16:31 #

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