kulla
Member
http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/14/drone-strike-wipes-out-mans-family-faith.html
Comments? Sugestions from the luxory of our bedrooms or living rooms?
This is one thing that IK has it right. Drone attacks are destroying are society and creating more suicide bombers.
Army, Nawaz, Zaradar n Co, MQM, JUI, and ANP are all culprits and are silent supporters of Drone Attacks.
Atleast Mushi had the b**** to limit the drone attacks during his time.
This has to be the saddest news I have ever heard in a while.
Not only is his family blown in to smithereens but he lost all his faith on us, government, society, concept of justice and most of all Allah SWT itself. This is a tragedy of epic proportions and I wonder if anyone will ever speak for this poor **** and countless others who have suffered the same fate.
I like how some "bloggers" on this forum completely ignored this story and happily "blogged" on other seemingly less important threads.
Unfortunately, I have never been able to justify suicide bombings but after reading this story it is somewhat easy to explain the inexplicable. If Resham Khan would've blown himself in a middle of a busy street in Lahore, Pindi, Islamabad, Karachi etc than we would've labeled him a degenerate lowlife scumbag but in the current situation we don't seem to give a rat's @ss about his family or his mental state.
This is a gross injustice and God knows that in a society- where there is rampant injustice and brutality like this one- is headed towards complete anarchy, chaos and an eventual collapse.
dell, you've picked up the IK rhetoric very nicely. But with rhetoric alone, we'll not get very far. This piece of news is heartbreaking. I'd thought drone strikes had stopped somewhat after the RD affair started. See how mistaken we can be.
Demos, that's what it should be. Huge demos to protest against these unholy strikes. That's what we expect IK to organise now.
@dell
"Unfortunately, I have never been able to justify suicide bombings but after reading this story it is somewhat easy to explain the inexplicable."
About time! ;-)
Though I am curious why this is "news" to you/people? EVERY SINGLE VICTIM of these strikes has a family. The first one killed 82 (officially) kids in a madrassa -- think they had no wali-waris, no brother, sister, uncle, aunts, mothers, fathers, friends and acquaintances??? -- and I have been screaming ever since but SecLibs have been waving their pom-poms screaming good riddance and shouting "Give us MORE!". They swear by their "accuracy" and will even now claim, like ISPR -- no one but "militants/terrorists" are killed...or explain it away as necessary "collateral damage". Well @dell, this is what collateral damage looks like...
(BTW: Why -- as i have often complained -- no pictures of the victims????? Shame on the media...)
gv
Member
@nota
before you jump down my throat for this statement. I am flatly against drone strikes.
But (and i dont have any hard facts to corroborate this) most of my direct(military/official) sources claim that the bombers are young teenagers/adolescents who have not necessarily suffered any direct personal loss but are blowing themselves up for god and righteousness or they are very desperate people who are taking cash payments for their families in return for their lives.
Suicide bombing in the case of the palestinians is almost plausible given that you have an entire community living under daily repression on all possible fronts - . but in our case it appears to be purely extremist theology driving most people. The palestinians have zero options. Our people have some (admittedly few but some) options open to them.
At the same time i agree with you that the media plays one side over the other and does not present the extreme suffering that the drone strikes have caused in order to tow the establishment line.
@gv
Before we spin that "the bombers are young teenagers/adolescents who have not necessarily suffered any direct personal loss but doing it for money" (that in itself speaks volumes) let's not forget before Damadola attack I mentioned, there were no suicide attacks. But thanks for qualifying it with "my direct(military/official) sources claim" :)
"Suicide bombing in the case of the palestinians is almost plausible given that you have an entire community living under daily repression on all possible fronts - . but in our case it appears to be purely extremist theology driving most people."
Well, he is what I meant above: Bying your sources claims, is the state these kids find themselves in ("blow themselves up for a few thousand rupees") any better than "living under daily repression on all possible fronts"? (And is living under constant threat of being blown to bits by "terrorist" drones not living under terror?)
"At the same time i agree with you that the media plays one side over the other and does not present the extreme suffering that the drone strikes have caused in order to tow the establishment line."
That is my biggest peeve. But then maybe media got the message in the very beginning too (I have also written many times about Hayatullah Khan who reported that drone strike. He was picked up, tortured for months, eventually shot and his body dumped. Later his wife too was killed through a bomb placed outside her house wall.) Still, I say if they cannot report about these strikes, the least they could do is not also echo the ISPR line....
gv
Member
@nota
i also find it hard to stomach that this is being done for money alone (the sum i was told was RS 250k. per suicide bomber) but i do believe that people can be motivated to kill themselves and others for their faith .. that is what troubles me if that is that is indeed true for the majority of suicide attacks and the evidence (age, ethnicitcy of many of the recent bombers) seems to point in that direction.
i.e innocent people are being used as weapons by cynical extremist militants
the mainstream press in pk is still very much under the thumb of the ispr and the inntelligence agencies as any press member will happily confess... i dont really expect much from them...
i do think that the aid agencies are in a position to report and publicise the loss of life in FATA due to the drone strikes... they are also failing in that dept.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@gv: Playing "naive", are we ?
Losing faith by drone attacks? That's a foolish thing. Prolly didn't have the faith in the first place.
On the 20th of September he stopped praying. He used to pray five times a day. But after that he totally stopped,” said Mulaqat, looking sadly at his brother, who was sporting a henna beard and wearing old plastic sandals.
“I asked him to offer prayers and he said ‘I can’t. I don’t have the energy’.”
@qv
"if that is that is indeed true..seems to point in that direction"
A big IF and a Big SEEMS...majority of attackers have NOT been identified (no matter what ISPR says).
But then I think you are cleverly guiding this thread in the wrong direction. The issue was NOT suicide attacks but DRONE STRIKES and the issue was not suicide bombers motivations (enough written about that) but the relatives of those killed by drones and the effects on them (something never talked about)
;-)
gv
Member
@nota
you know everyone does not have some nefarious hidden agenda.. i have an opinion and im expressing it to the best of my knowledge which i am also qualifiying with the fact that there is no hard evidence to prove my argument...
dell mentioned suicide bombing in light of the thread and i wrote my opinion down in light of what you had said thats all.
my stance is very clear - drone strikes are not justified but neither are suicide attacks on innocent citizens... thats all
@hk
fly away hk and go pester someone who actually cares what you think
SufiSoul
Member
i must add that still they are veru soft by only targetting security agencies by suiciders..they are justified to blow them among gatherings of common peple who given votes to the govt helping drones to kill..i think daily 500 common people killings in pakistan by suiciders bombings can only work stop drones nd army strikes...BUT WHY STUPID TTP ONLY SEND BOMBERS TO TARGET ARMY,POLICE.THIS IS NOT WORKING STOP DRONES,ARMY STRIKES..MASS VOTERS KILLINGS WILL ONLY WORK...
@gv
'my stance is very clear - drone strikes are not justified but neither are suicide attacks on innocent citizens... thats all "
Ah, that "but" again....not "nefarious hidden agenda" but just "nefarious agenda" :)
@SufiSoul & HK
And there goes the thread....first gv, now you two...
SufiSoul
Member
democratic govt can only be screwed through common people sufferings..democracy have some disadvantages too to go with..you cannot pressurise democrtc govt through any other TACTIC BUT THROUGH VOTERS SUFFERINGS...
gv
Member
@nota
your warped being cant comprehend being against both sides can you.... for you its one or the other...
shirazi
Member
@SufiSoul
"they are justified to blow them among gatherings of common people who given votes to the govt helping drones to kill"
Mashallah ... how about suicide attacks on those who are attracting drones - the foreign militants OR the American forces behind the drones? Do you really think those who got votes have a say in drones?
SufiSoul
Member
nota, i donot believe on POLITICAL STATEMENTS .but insist over logical solution...PROVE ME WRONG LOGICALLY I WILL GET MY WORDS BACK.FOR THE SAKE OF THREAD U WANT ME ISSUE HIDDEN AND POLITICAL STATEMENTS..
SufiSoul
Member
subhanallah shirazi,u condemn drones and MEANS/TACTICS tO stop drones...kia baat hy janab ki...tum log vote de kr masoom ban jathy ho wah wah wah..tum ros 500 dead uthawo tho 10 din me tum sb drones k khilaaf roads per ho gy...
@gv
"your warped being cant comprehend being against both sides can you.... for you its one or the other... "
No gv, I comprehend everything and that is what is p!ssing you off :) :-P
It seems you can't keep you "but" out of it. Is the topic suicide attacks or the living victims of drones strikes? Have you anything to say about that? ZILCH! :)
(If you really wanted to insist on your "but", you could have given us a story of the living victims of suicide attacks -- now that one might have let slip BUT no such thing from you...so really takes no stretch of imagination to see what "designs" you have ;-) If you really want to talk about what you want to talk about, why not start a thread, say something like "Motivation for most suiciders is money" for that is all you have had to say, (though I know you won't...)) :)
SufiSoul
Member
shirazi tum democracy ka meetha meetha hup karwa kerwa tho waly ho...here is the equation.US DRONES+GOVT HELP+PEOPLE VOTES.....
gv
Member
@nota
look i didnt say that motivation for most suiciders is money i said it was being brainwashed by militants.... i said that i have been told that some suiciders are so desperate they are doing it for money and i find that claim hard to stomacch..
dont twist my words unecessarily.. whats p***ng me off is that you being so judgemental that you cant have a conversation without playing judge and jury all in one and casting aspersions on my 'motives' i dont have any 'motives' besides airing my opinion which is frankly what everybody is here to do..
i condemn drone strikes... 'and' (if it makes you feel better) I condemn suicide attacks..
my personal belief is that the suicide attacks are not justified as a retaliatory measure to the drone attacks because the victims tend to be innocents who are not decision makers.. i.e. they have nothign to do with the drone attacks... thats all..
shirazi
Member
@SufiSoul
Perhaps ...why don't you try by blowing yourself during Friday prayers? You may change the course of events, just leave a note somewhere it's strictly against drones :)
SufiSoul
Member
shiraz bus ho gayee na..aab personal ho giya...logic k tery dhdhory reh gaye sirf.....if ppp every minister got 4 attacks in his area next time every single one will think 10000 times bfore voting for ppp...
SufiSoul
Member
AUR YE HO GA:JAMHORIYAT KA HUSAN.WAISY BHI BAD TAREEN JAMHORIYAT AAMREYAT SE BEHTAR HY....jamhoriyat me kabhi kabhi maar bhi parti hy,bhutto gaya,bibi gayi,common man ko kiyun problem ho ga agar jamhoriyat k liye qurbani de ga daily 500 dead..
shirazi
Member
@SufiSoul
My bad, I thought you were willing to lead from the front but perhaps you only offered consulting services to suicide schools that are limited to identifying locations and frequency :)
My point of view is simple this is Arab-American conflict. Both should target each other. Perhaps they do but for every Arab or American dying in this conflict 50 or perhaps more Pakistanis are being killed.
Your suggestion to kill 500 Pakistanis a day to stop drones is clearly standing with Arabs and not Pakistanis in this conflict. If we have agents of Jews among our ranks, as some claim, we also have Arab agents who are more loyal to their agenda than Pakistan and you certainly represent that block.
toamin
member
کسی مقامی صحافی کو تو توفیق نا ہوئی کہ ان بیچاروں کو پوچھے جو ان مزائلوں کے شکار بنتے ہیں، مگر یہ برطانوی ادارہ پہونچ گیا اور صحیح تصویر کھینچنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں
ان حملوں کو صرف و صرف پاک فوج اور فضایہ کی بزدلی ہی کہا جائے تو بہتر ہوگا، سیاسی قیادت تو آنے سے پہلے ہی خصی کر دی جاتی ہے
سرحدوں کے دفاع کی قسم کھانے والے ہی مورد الزام ٹھہرائے جا سکتے ہیں، عوام تو ان حملوں کے خلاف ہیں، اگر یقین نہیں آتا تو سروے دیکھ لیں
قصور تو عام فوجی جوان کا بھی نہیں، اصل مجرم تو جرنل کیانی اور اس کے چور کمانڈر ہیں، جو صرف اپنی ذات تک ہی سوچتے اور دیکھتے ہیں
جہاں تک بات رہی مذمت کی تو میں دونوں طرف کی مذمت کرتا ہوں اور اپیل کرتا ہوں کہ متحد ہو جائیں اور جا کر کشمیر و فلسطین آزاد کروائیں
kulla
Member
everyone. this thread is about social ramifications of drone attacks not talking about suicide bombing. This poor guy has lost everything thanks to Drone attacks and the support that our goverment and army and, our friendly opposition has provided to the US.
We did give our votes to this goverment, but now its time we demand what is right. This goverment is a representative of us and our wants.
The root cause is drone attacks and the way our goverment and army have been a sellout to the US.
We cant even imagine one iota of pain and grief that these people are facing, seeing their family and friends bombed into small pieces..and who has given the US the right to bomb even the terrorist inside Pakistan.
shirazi
Member
@Salam
I agree with your one sided biased analysis where you blame top Army leadership for siding with Pentagon. But the part which you overlooked - who Pentagon is fighting with Arab militants. Our media and public either stay quite or hail them as holly warriors including you. If we don't have them within our borders superpower won't be sending drones within our frontiers. And what Arabs are doing to stop those drones that already kill more Pakistanis than Arabs? They kill more Pakistanis through suicide missions ....
nota
One of the teachers killed in Damadola drone attack was Swat's Fazlullah's brother. Later on he married his widow as per their custom and swore to take revenge....
How did he take revenge?
His men would knock on any door and would ask them "jehad-bi-nafs or jehad-bilmal", failing to provide money, those poor families would ended up as losing a male child. This happened to one of our relatives in Swat as well.
Also we need to keep in mind that this jehad/Taliban thing is being franchised now and this multi-million business has been taken by CIA/MOSAD through their men like Raymond Davis. I'm not sure who plays middle man but these TTP's are play in their hand (knowingly/not knowingly, not sure)..
gv
Member
@kulla
i think its a moot point that drone attacks are illegal/unfair/ and a gross injustice on the people of fata as well as all Pakistanis.
Everybody is in agreement there. The thread veered off course because dell stated that a victim like Resham Khan would be justified in becoming a suicide bomber after what he has suffered.
kulla
Member
@shirazi, if this is just an arab-american war, why is Pakistan being so kind and polite to the US by allowing them to attack our soil? Pakistan should have nothing to do with the war, and by taking sides, it has become an ally and full partner in the war that is being fought in Afghanistan. Pakistan's contribution is only short of supplying troops in Afghanistan.
The Drone attacks must end. We must be neutral and protect our own interests, and more so our People not our IMF aid payments or USAID.
Dusky
Member
@ SufiSoul: "they are justified to blow them among gatherings of common peple who given votes to the govt helping drones to kill..i think daily 500 common people killings in pakistan by suiciders bombings can only work stop drones nd army strikes..."
I must say, you are sniffing some real Sufi Sh!t these days....
liv_2_die
Member
har thread pe bas laro ...
toamin
member
شیرازی میں تو صرف یک طرفہ رائے ہی دے سکتا ہوں، دوہری رائے دینے کے لئے دوغلے بندے کا ہونا ضروری ہے، شاید آپ بہتر دوہری رائے دے سکو؟
یہ عرب وغیرہ سب ایک ڈھکوسلا ہے، نرا افسانہ ہے یہ
کوئی ثبوت ہے تو لاؤ اور پھر بات کرو
kulla
Member
@gv, i find more ppl condeming suicide bombing which is again a ramification of drone attacks and our foreign policy. No one is willing to fix the root cause but fix the symptom. I think what we fail to understand is why these suicide bombings are happening because we are afraid that ppl will label us as terrorists/extremeits etc. Untill unless we "understand" (NOT JUSTIFY) why these symptoms are happening, we will not be able to solve this problem.
Imagine Drone Attacks in your neighbourhood, or even your house. You see all your family killed...lets say by Pakistan Police...and lets say that the SHO is a good friend of your local MP and so many times you have been to the MP and all he does is talk but yet he invites the SHO for dinner and they exchange gifts and the SHO is known to provide bribe to your local MP as well.
What will you do? will you still praise and hug the MP?
liv_2_die
Member
this is tragic ... the same 'diseases' WEST has in its society, now creeping into ours .. May Allah save each and every one of us and all innocents from such incidents
AMEEN
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@nota: I'm sorry. I'll take that back.
I agree with what SufiSoul is saying, though.
I have no intention of hijacking or defocusing the thread. My opinion is, if Admin/Moderators want to delete my earlier post, that'll be great.
shirazi
Member
@Salam
Evidence --- who is Osama and AlZehwari? Where are they hiding for past decade or so?
AND you are offering high moral ground for siding with one party and not objectively looking at the conflict. Perhaps O$ama is your future Calipha so you can't go against him.
@SufiSoul
Perhaps ...why don't you try by blowing yourself during Friday prayers? You may change the course of events, just leave a note somewhere it's strictly against drones :)
---
I second that, we will open a thread in your honour on PKP and condole your sacrfice.
Anyways, point of my post was not to glorify suicide attacks. Everyone knows that suicide attacks are the worst possible way one can express their anger and protest, I condemn them with harshest words possible. I just want to salute this family, that even though they have suffered an immense loss but they have not gone that way, but what have they gained by not choosing the path of terrorists, nothing, we have failed them, society has failed them. Mulaqat Khan, victim's brother has the sadest face I have seen, even though he was smiling but even a brainless person can understand there is an epic sadness behind that smile.
I am just saying "we" as in people who are against suicide bombing and drone attacks have failed this family and probably many like these, it's much easier to couch blog about these tragedies than actually doing something more concrete to stop them.
SufiSoul
Member
Aab tum sub baghlain jhaank rahy ho......jamhoriyat jamhoriyat ka raag bhool gaye ho........US DRONES=PAK GOVT HELP=VOTERS=LIABLE FOR ATTACKS.......plz prove it wrong if anyone out their wishing a response
asif65
Member
@SufiSoul sorry I couldn't resist to say this!
I think there are two or more users of ID SufiSoul.
It could be son/father or younger brother/older brother as Jehadi/tablighi. :-)
SufiSoul
Member
plz explain wt u wanna say.....only one under sufisoul id.....so far.....rest i could not undstand as a whole wt is ur question above....
toamin
member
شیرازی
آپ نے پوچھا کہ یہ لوگ کون ہیں اور کہاں ہیں، تو لیجئے جواب حاضر ہے
سوویت کے خلاف لڑنے کے لئے ساری دنیا سے مجاہدین افغانستان آئے تھے اور پھر وہیں قیام پزیر ہوے، مقامی قبائل میں شادیاں کیں اور یہیں کے ہو کر رہ گئے کیونکہ ان کی اپنی حکومتوں نے ان پر امریکہ کے دباؤ کے تحت واپسی پر پابندی لگا رکھی تھی
یہی وہ لوگ ہیں جن کو آپ کا میڈیا ہیرو اور آزادی کے مجاہد کہتا تھا اور ساری دنیا ان کی پشت پناہی کرتی تھی
پر جب امریکہ نے خود اس ملک پر حملہ کر کے قبضہ کرنے کی کوشش کی تو ان لوگوں نے اسی طرح لڑنا شروع کیا جیسے تیس سال قبل کیا تھا
یہ لوگ کوئی آج یا پانچ سال پہلے نہیں آئے، جہاں تک بات رہی کہ کون کہاں ہے تو وہ تو امریکہ کا باپ بھی نہیں جانتا، واللہ اعلم
مشرف ایک فون کال پر لیٹ گیا اور کشمیری مسلمانوں کی پیٹھ میں خنجر گھونپا، افغانی مسلمانوں کی ناصرف پیٹھ میں خنجر گھونپا بلکہ اپنے کندھے بھی آگے کئے کہ ادھر سے نشانہ مارو
٢٠٠٤ میں پہلی دفعہ امریکی دباؤ میں آ کر قبائلی علاقوں میں فوج کشی شروع کی، ہر صلح کے معاہدے کو سبوتاژ کیا، نیک محمد کو قتل کیا، امریکی نیٹورک کو کھلی چھوٹ دی اور سینکڑوں رے منڈ آ کر فتنہ سازی میں لگ گئے، ادھر مزائل مارتے اور ادھر متاثرین کو استمعال کرتے
میں پوچھتا ہوں کہ آپ جیسے لوگ یہ کیوں نہیں سوچتے کہ امریکی آمد سے پہلے اس خطے میں کوئی فتنے نہ تھا، یہ سب آپ کے امریکی سرکار کی لگائی ہوئی آگ ہے، لیکن آپ کو نظر نہیں آتی بلکے وہی نظر آتا ہے جو آپ کی سرکار کہتی ہے
Since we are talking about soviat "jihad", I heard that t u r d Hamid Gul say that we don't need US we can survive,
Really you imbecile, vile creature? Why did you need US to wage Jihad against Soviets, I like how he explained in many shows that Pakistan was too weak and bla bla so they sucked America's lolly for help.
What a d-bag, and now this person is the so called expert on intelligence and a leader of deendar ghairatmunds, I wish he goes to tribal areas so he can get the same treatments as Khawaja and Imam.
Chicken are coming home to roost and Hamid Gul is totally responsible for this!!
toamin
member
ڈل
تم بھی بس اپنی ہی نفرتوں کے دریا میں بہتے چلے جا رہے ہو، نا تاریخ کا کچھ پتا ہے نا حمید گل اور امریکیوں کی چپکلش کا پتہ
افغان جہاد حمید گل سے بہت پہلے شروع ہوا تھا، پاکستان اور امریکہ تو بہت بعد میں حمایت لے کر کودے تھے
How successful was this "Jihad" before Amreeka and Pakistan jumped into it. Why did we jump into it? Who labeled that as Jihad and manipulated masses. Hamid Gul admitted that soviets were at our doorstep and they (Zia and his henchmen) literally crapped their pants. So, obviously this "mard e haq" who BTW murdered hundreds of innocent Palestinians in Jordan (Black Friday) turns into a "kusra e haq" in a jiffy and begs Amreeka to help save Pakistan (I wonder why didn't he ask Allah SWT, may be because he knew wahan say pitkar hi milay gi)!!??
BTW when are we going to try Hamid Gul for the Ojhri Camp tragedy?
toamin
member
جتنی مرضی گالیاں دے لو ان کو میری بلا سے، مجھے کوئی غرض نہیں، نا میں حمید گل کا حمایتی ہوں اور نا ہی ضیاء کا
سمجھے؟
اگر تاریخ پر بحث کرنی ہے تو آؤ میدان میں، نہیں بلکہ پہلے عمران خان کی رائے ضرور جانچ لینا
Mein tou Hamid Gul ko hi galiyan dey raha hoon aap ko thori...
Imran Khan mera peer tou nahi hai aik siasi leader hai..BTW Imran is a liberal politician and he has distanced himself from these establishment's pithus
toamin
member
لگے رہو میاں لگے رہو
shirazi
Member
@Salam
I agree with your take ... who is giving America clean slip here? All I am saying these Arabs JIhadis are partner in crime. Their governments are smart they threw them out otherwise they 'd be dealing with all these explosives - drones and suicides. We are $tupid we accepted them as gracious hosts and in return getting this bloodshed in Arab-American conflict.
You must log in to post.
