Extremism and Millitancy « PKPolitics Discuss

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Extremism and Millitancy

(22 posts)

Fahim23
Member

For the sake of learning I would like to ask my brothers/sisters from Pakhtunkhuwah/NWFP and Punjab why is it that Militancy and extremism has relatively wider acceptance in its masses as compared to Sindh and Balochistan.

Why is it that Qadyanis issue, Lashkar-e-jhangvi, sipah sahaba, molvi fuzlullah, and issue of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed have erupted in that part? It is also worth noting that during partition, the hindu-muslim riots mostly took place in the pubjab region of Pak-India border? while the khokhra par and mona bao which are bordering areas in sindh were relatively much more peaceful.

If the answer is "ignorance" thn I can tell you thr are as much ignorant ppl in Sindh or Balochistan as thr will b in Pakhtunkhuwah/NWFP and Punjab. So why is it that the majority of people living in sindh/Balochistan are not at least extremists religiously? I can tell that people in sindh are heavily influenced with sufism and sufism has preached tolerance that could be one reason of having somewhat secular mind and inclinations. But there has been no dearth of great Sufis in Punjab and NWFP like Baba bulley shah, Dada ganj baksh, Khatak baba etc so why the people of Punjab and NWFP were not influenced by them?

Hope to hear from you soon.

Posted 3 years ago on 22 Jan 2009 22:54 #
codefreaq
Member

proximity to jihadi activity in kashmir and afghanistan. militancy of FATA belt. densely populated areas.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 1:58 #
larki
Blocked

its the fault of the mothers.
the men do not want the women to get educated so they can rule them and make them feel like slaves.
women have to break the chains of bondage.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 8:24 #
LetsDoIt
Member

There are lot of extreme so-called religious practices are in use in Sindh also to oppress poor people like WANI, Marrying with Quran, Passing from the burning coal etc but because the balence of the power is too much shifted towards the oppressor (Very big landlords) therefore there is no or may be very little militancy in Sindh.

But for Balochistan i think its only that we dont have too much reported incidents otherwise they are no different then the people in FATA or in some cases even worse.

In NWFP extremism was always there as revenge is in their blood but this was turned into militancy later with the foreign help and our ignorance.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 9:31 #
Beenai
Moderator

i dono .
its the fault of our mothers or ours own.
but there is some fault .
which has titled the society towards male domination.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 10:14 #
netengr
blocked

Because Islam is used as weapon to protect nationalism ,tribalism and sectarianism in this region .

Pakistaniat is a pure nationalism but it was used with Islam and Jihad against India.and in this regions hatred to other nations and groups was developed and appreciated using Islam for their

now
Punjabiat+Pakistaniat+islam=pakistani jihad

Power+Money+islam = Taliban

Kashmiri nationalism +pakistani nationalism +islam =kashmiri jihad

and it is started from (allama Iqbal then syed qutum,then Muslim league then jamat islami then Deoband then ISI Zia -

from the above schools of thoughts give birth after 50 years in the form of Al-qai-da ,ta-liban ,sipah-e-sahaba,lashker,hizb etc

biased nationalism used islam

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 10:39 #
javedsheikh
Members

1. In 1964, I had a chance to receive a delegation from Afghanistan and it was amazing to watch how the female members of the delegation were dressed in European Style.
2. Pathans of Afghanistan and NWFP were never less liberal and progressive than any other part of Pakistan.
3. The region produced more liberal and progressive politicians like Khan Abdul Ghuffar Khan, Khan Abdul Qayoom Khan, Wali Khan and artists like Prithvi Raj, Raj Kapoor, Dilip Kumar.
4. People loved to go to Afghanistan to watch cultural shows and movies, otherwise banned in Pakistan.
5. People from all over India and Pakistan used to collect Salajeet from Pathans to maintain sexual performance.
6. The extremism and fundametalism was injected and imported from Saudi Arabia, during the era of Zia-ul-Haq, where Pakistan Military was heavily corrupted to 'accomplish the mission' against Russian invasion.
7. Billions of Dollars were pumped into the region to promote and patronize the crop of fanatic Talibans and Jihadis, in religiously labeled Madrassas..
8. Poverty and lack of resources also contributed to turn a particular section of the region into extremists.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 12:11 #
netengr
blocked

What we taught :

Jis khait main mayasser na ho dehqhan ko rozi
us khaith kay her khosa-e-gandum ko jaladou

teeghon(swords) kay sayeh main pal ker jawan hue hain
Khanjer hilal hay ,Qoumi nishan hamara

YEh hay ilaqa sarhad ka iss ki hay nirali shan yahan
Bandookhon kay sayeh main bachay hotay hain jawan yahan

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 15:20 #
mulla1
blocked

I agree with all the above points and they describe the issues well , and here is my take on this topic..

in the areas of mention in this topic, there is an element of "chutyapa" and a huge crowd of "****" people who have a natural inclination & attraction towards any thing labeled Islamic...

you can sell them even poison by just packaging it and labeling it "madina" or "makkah"...

this is the real issue...and all other points are peripheral ...

Mulla!

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 15:34 #
Fahim23
Member

@codefreaq

"proximity to jihadi activity in kashmir and afghanistan. militancy of FATA belt. densely populated areas."

How do you assess the Hindu-muslim fasadat at Pubjab? rise of Mirza ghulam ahmed Qadyani before partition and thn after partition, movement against Ahmedis? They were not linked with kashmir or afghan Jihad.

@Letsdoit

"There are lot of extreme so-called religious practices are in use in Sindh also to oppress poor people like WANI, Marrying with Quran, Passing from the burning coal etc but because the balence of the power is too much shifted towards the oppressor (Very big landlords) therefore there is no or may be very little militancy in Sindh."

Certainly extremism is rising all over pakistan. But most of the karo kari, or marriage with Quran are not religiously motivated. They are more related with Greed and ignorance. People in order to save their wealth transfer they don't marry thr women. Most karo kari are done in order to grab land, qarza muaf karanay k liye, or to settle old conflicts. Whenever they have killed thr own mother, sister, wife, daughter, they say "aoon bay-Gairat nahyan" meaning "I'm not baigairat". They rarely say I did this to establish shariah. In my opinion people in NWFP and Pubjab are religiously motivated to become voilent. This is largely not the case in Sindh and Punjab. In sindh we have ethnic extremisim to some extent.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 19:22 #
Anonymous

becareful these r the westren terms to give a negative image of muslimes. the cause of the problem is that muslims r faceing a lot of problem due to the secular system of the world and particuler in their own lands.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 23:06 #
shikra
Blocked

Fundametalists, Mullas and religious fanatics are damaging the image of Islam and the Muslims more than any one else.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 Jan 2009 23:57 #
Anonymous

Secular minded people(Munafiqs) r more dangeraous then any other. westren ideology have/had a very negative impact on our society. it have/had buielt such a confused mentality that we r not for islam & not for west.

May Allah(SWT) protect us and guide us to right path.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 Jan 2009 21:14 #
raheb
Member

AGREED Nahda! but I have to clear that you may be a little over sensitive to word 'Extremist'. It is NOT a term, as you said, it is simply a word and even we have it in urdu and many other language also. YES! we can be Extremely GOOD muslims, extremists in faith, love, reading, science, games and what not and NOTHING is wrong with it. What probably showing is That we are not in that sense as west declare us. We are extremists in Islam without killing someone, as we are blamed for.

raheb

Posted 3 years ago on 25 Jan 2009 1:15 #
Anonymous

@ shikra
do u realy know the meaning of Fundametalists and religious fanatics? and what is the origion of these words?

Posted 3 years ago on 25 Jan 2009 16:39 #
Fahim23
Member

@raheb

extremist:

1. a person who goes to extremes, esp. in political matters.
2. a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.

–adjective 3. belonging or pertaining to extremists.

n. One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

Ex*trem"ist\, n. A supporter of extreme doctrines or practice; one who holds extreme opinions.

When we are using certain terms in a foreign language we must be sensitive to thr meaning which are accepted in thr society. May be you have different meaning of word "extremist" in your mind, but if you are addressing it to some one you must be careful what message you are conveying with your choice of words. When we are not totally aware of these terms thn we shouldn't use them for us. Its like an owl is an abuse in our society but a symbol of wiseness in western society. If they come and start calling us..."owl", obviously we will mind despite the fact that they may be are complementing us.

How would you classify a person who only sticks to old school Hakeem instead of going to well-learned doctor? How would you call a person if he decides to drink only water? These are extreme behaviours but I'm sure you would agree that they aint wise!

Being muslims we are termed as "ummat wasat" one interpretation of it is a "Balanced approach". We are adviced to adopt a balanced approach and we should introduce ourselves with these words. I don't think anyone can be an "Extremely good muslim, no-muslim, hindu, or jew", it is very "extreme" statement in itself.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 Jan 2009 18:11 #
raheb
Member

Well I don't agree with you Fahim sb. You go normative here, but norms are NOT laws, which is forbidden to break or modified. Then I have to tell the western what I mean by extremist, or owl, no matter what they think, that calls integration by which people can live side by side. You want to adjust according to others, that is assimilation, that I should do as romens do. It is nothing wrong to be extremist in good sense, without enforcing and using any power to convince others. We do make meanings in our life, so we have to understand others, how they have make meaning in their lives. We don't have right to correct, by declaring others as wrong. Extreme is word not any term, and use of a word depends on how and where it is used.
In other sense while you put western world here, do you think they are using "balanced" methods? Simply NO, they are extrimest in their ways too. It is pole on other end, calls also extremist or not?

raheb

Posted 3 years ago on 26 Jan 2009 21:46 #
Fahim23
Member

@raheb

All I'm trying to say is that if we are speaking any foreigh language we should be sensitive to its meaning and implications on the minds of addressed. I think it is very wise thing to do.

If extremism, funamentalism is not a good word in western society, Why are we determined to adopt them?

Beside in life if I have a choice to be

Optimistic or Pessimistic, i will choose a way in between of them.
Over confident, inferioriity complex, i will try to be moderate.

On the other hand if i have to choose between right and wrong, I'll try to choose right.

Point I'm trying to make is that in my opinion overall in your life you have to adopt a balanced approach in your dealings, in your expenditures, and in your thinking. If you disagree, I have no problem with that.

Posted 3 years ago on 29 Jan 2009 3:40 #
raheb
Member

Fahim sb! I thnking you are mixing up few things, What about when a western say, " What a extremely good performance". or, "that is a extremely poor film".
So it depends where you use the term and how you explain it.
Dealing with other people where emotions are involved, probably there one should use balanced approach, but I can use on myself to be a extremely good say sportsman, student, singer or a muslim or a extremely good human being. I don't think a western has difficulty to undertsand it. Then if they do not understand then we have to explain to them rather to adjust according to their need or desire.

Problem? no, we are discussing and it is part of it. Take it easy dear.

raheb

Posted 3 years ago on 29 Jan 2009 20:27 #
nahda
Member

@raheb
extremism is not giving same sens as extremely. Extremism is a political term that is used for the muslims that want islam in every day life.

Posted 3 years ago on 29 Jan 2009 20:53 #
Fahim23
Member

@raheb

I think we are talking about the dialogue between muslims and non-muslim western society as whole. They "think" and label us extremists and fundamentalists. By doing so they are not praising us, in fact they are demeaning/defaming us and therefore Islam itself.

Now in this context I too am making point that we have to explain west that we are not extremists in the sense they are taking. And for that the first and best thing I'd suggest is that we should quit labbeling ourselves Extremists and Fundamentalists when we are not even in good senses.

Are we extremely good humans - No
Are we extremely good muslims - No,
Are we extremely good in terms of science and technology - No
Are we extremely poor - Yes

There are few good humans beings, students, singers, muslims living among us which can be called "Extremely good". However it would too be a vague statement to make as the Extreme of any Quality is simply undeterministic. What is extremely good student? good singer etc it is relative and mostly applies to individuals. While we are talking about Muslims as group.

As a group and in terms of religion overall we can only call ourselves average/moderate muslims. But certainly not "Extremely good".

Posted 3 years ago on 30 Jan 2009 2:19 #
raheb
Member

Fahim! we havn't labbeled us extremists, they are doing it, so what should I quit while I have not choose something myself? If answer is, in your words,

"Are we extremely good humans - No
Are we extremely good muslims - No,
Are we extremely good in terms of science and technology - No"

then question is WHY they are labelling us for something we are NOT?
Now if they do, then Let them do it, we know who and how we are, why should we bother to clarify something which we are not and have not chosen ourselves?

I don't agree with, "Are we extremely poor - Yes".
Poor in what? You may thinking in economical terms, but that is Not at all in life. We are much richer in many senses.
We are not calling us "extremely good" but nothing wrong to have a vision to approach it and we NO need to give expanations to others.
West needed a Enemy after the fall of communist Russia, and they have find it in Muslims, that'it, so be ready that they will call us much more, Don't care.

Extremism is NO term Nahda, you are wrong here.

raheb

Posted 3 years ago on 30 Jan 2009 22:50 #