Insaaniat
Members
Last Night I saw a good program by Khwaja Saad Rafique of PMLN. It is a good program altogether as it discuss the issue of creation of new provinces in Pakistan. PMLN stance is very logical that Provinces must be divided on the basis of Administration and I agree with them on this matter.
http://pkpolitics.com/2011/08/02/news-night-with-talat-2-august-2011/
saladin89
Member
"Provinces should be divided on the basis of admin"
U can divide as much as u want, it will not make a difference unless good honest politicians are chosen to represent these provinces. As long as N$ is the leader of this corrupt pack, it will make no difference wotsoever.
Evil is the main problem in Pakistan, and N$, zardari and altaf are high up the list of this evil.
It was a great program woow weeee Pakistan has been saved, let's go out and celebrate.
scandinavian
Member
There is already a thread on this issue.
Insaaniat
Members
@scandinavian. No it is not the case. That thread is not related to the political stance of a certain party but this thread is related to the political stance of PMLN.
saladin89
Member
@insaaniat
I never knew PML N had a political stance! If this is what they have come up with in 3.5 years, divide provinces and do what, who will lead them? PML N jaali candidates, who rigged the elections to come into power.
Dividing provinces can only work when we have honest leaders, who want to make a difference for there provinces.
Insaaniat
Members
@admin Please delete those comments that are not related to my post.
Saladain89 is simply bashing me and one political figure and saladin89 is ruining my every Post and started a Political warfare here rather than having a good discussion.
Please admin delete the comments of Saladin89 as this thread is not for expoising nawaz sharif or eradication of coruption or other leaders and this issue is related to the One issue and one should stick to this issue at all costs.
saladin89
Member
@admin
I do not agree, i made a valid point that, even if provinces are divided it will make no difference as long as we have dishonest and corrupt politicians.
What is wrong with what I have said?
But if u feel that my comments are not worthy to the topic, then go ahead delete them.
My point is very clear dividing provinces will not make a dime bit of difference unless we have honest people leading them.
Thanks
Insaaniat
Members
@admin and Saladin89 Just see the comment below my post. Rathar than having a good discussion you simply resort to sarcasm and again use name of one political figure to bash me as well.
@admin IF THIS TREND WILL CONTINUE THEN I WILL NOT START ANY NEW THREADS AND WILL LEAVE THIS FORUM AS SOME PEOPLE HAVE BASHED ME FOR NO REASON.
THE WHOLE THREAD HAVE BEEN RUINED BY SALADIN89
SHAME ON YOU SALADIN89.
IT SEEMS PKPOLITICS IS FOR THE TROLLS ONLY AS NO SENSIBLE PERSON CANNOT DO ANY DISCUSSION HERE.
saladin89
Member
Sorry bro for hurting yur feelings, i did not mean too. But what have I said wrong.
Please do not go, we need your intellectual calibre on this forum.
Again I did not mean to upset u, but please tell me what I have said wrong. I am getting confused again!
scandinavian
Member
@Ins
"No it is not the case. That thread is not related to the political stance of a certain party but this thread is related to the political stance of PMLN."
You say it's aprty specific stance? That's fine for me, but let the moderator decide the fate.
Then why you are crying "foul" over Saladin89's remarks on nooner "vision"? In fact almost every "vision" of nooners is questionable since this party mainly consists of CORRUPT people!
Insaaniat
Members
THIS FORUM IS FOR THE PEOPLE LIKE Saladin89 and Scandinavian.
Good luck all brothers and good luck Saladin89 and Scandinavian.You people deserve Imran Khan and Allah bless you with your Leader Imran Khan.
I want to contribute productively but I was bashed time and again and nooner or ganga supporter or whatever you can say everyone have said here besides i Had repeatedly said that I DONT HAVE ANY POLTICAL AFFILIATION AT ALL.
Every Party have some negative and positive points but if you mentioned some positive points about some political points about the party then you are marked an XYZ Supporter and then you are bashed mercilessly.
Now Enough is enough. My every thread is ruined by NON PRODUCTIVE Discussion by two of you.
It is better to leave this Forum and work productively for Pakistan in some other manner .
Allah Hafiz and good luck Pkpolitics and after Ramadan Eid Mubarak as well.
scandinavian
Member
@Ins
It's your choice whether you want to stay or leave, but bear in mind that your approach has been pretty one dimensional hence the controversies. Otherwise I genuinely believe you could contribute positively provided you could have a balanced approach.
Anwer Kamal
Member
@Insaaniat
This is more wonderful to stay here. You can learn a lot here.This is their style . Don't mind it.
It is the question of level of thinking and level of behavior.
@saladin89 and Scandinavian,
Consider this first and final warning form PKP administration.
The quality of discussion has been going down recently and many decent members have either left or leaving due to these non-constructive discussions and personal attacks.
You will be permanently banned without any warning next time.
Admin
LOL
Ager DEll k zamanay main yeh sahab atay to pata nai phir thanay hee jatay FIR katanay :p
Anwer Kamal
Member
Coming back to topic.
Javed Hashmi moved further higher
http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/04/hashmi-wants-punjab-divided-into-four-provinces.html
saladin89
Member
@admin
Salam bro, could u please tell me what I have said that is wrong, so that next time i do not do the mistake again.
There are 2 sides too a coin.
Also to the other brothers, if I can have your feedback as well, and let me know what has been said that is so wrong.
I have checked scandanavian some posts, and i find them very constructive as well.
I am not here to hurt anyone's feelings. Just try to speak the truth.
Thanks
HAQKIAWAZ
Member
@saladin89
What I have seen from most of your and Scandinavian posts that you guys instead of showing disagreement through logical way in response of your opponents, start personal and abusive verbal attacks like the use of words such as "Sharam karo" , "Shame on you", "You are liar" etc. You have the full right to represent your point of view but you should refrain from using personal and abusive words for your opponents.
saladin89
Member
@haqkiawaz
thanks for feedback, but i cannot see when i said sharam karo, also you are a liar (can't find) however concerning the point of democracy i did say that is a lie (can't see anything wrong with that).
I used the word shame on u, but so did brother insaaniat replying to another post.
I do not think my language is worse than others on this forum.
I am still a bit confused.
HAQKIAWAZ
Member
saladin89
In democracy everyone has their own point of view, There are many forum members who believe that NS is a better choice out of the present politicians, similarly many members like you belief IK to be better choice. Similarly some think AZ is the best choice. Therefore it is nonsense that we start a personal brawl with each other on this forum based on difference of point of view. And try to enforce our stance by using abusive words against opponents.
HAQKIAWAZ
Member
@Insaaniat
I think you should reconsider you decision of leaving the forum. I suggest you to continue with your thoughtful and informative posts. If you feel that some one is here only for bashing and abusive attacks then just simply ignore such member.
Adonis
Member
Instead of looking it as a ploy to reduce its clout, at least parts of PML-N are finally realizing that dividing Punjab into smaller units can actually be politically beneficial for PML-N.
I would go even further than Javed Hashmi and say that Punjab should be divided into five administrative provinces, Rawalpindi, Lahore, Sargodha, Multan and Bahawalpur. This will make administration more efficient and life of common man much easier who now has to travel to Lahore from Attock, Rahim yar Khan, DG Khan, Mianwali etc. even for small issues.
Furthermore, politically it will also be beneficial for PML-N as it is certain to win majority in at least three of the five new provinces and will have very good chance to win in the remaining two (Multan and Bahawalpur) as well. So even if PML-N cannot form future government, it will be governing 3 or 5 of the nine provinces and will also have increased representation in CCI and senate. Smaller administrative units will also reduce ethnic biases and promote national unity.
Therefore, PML-N leadership should think outside the box and use this opportunity to create more provinces in the interest of party and Pakistan.
mangoman
Blocked
My point is, why everyone is after dividing Punjab, why not other provinces also.
If Punjab is divide on linguistic lines, it will set a very bad precedence. MQM might not be officially demanding a new province for Muhajirs for now, but eventually they might demand (MQM track record and their blackmailing tactics). PPP (f*c*ed up) leadership, especially the Sindhi leadership should think about it, if they are so concerned about any division of Sindh. After creation of south Punjab or Seraiki province, demand from MQM on same linguistic lines will be justified for Muhajir province and PPP will not be able to deny it. Same is the case with Hazara province in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and a new Pakhtun province in Balochistan.
I, as a resident of Lahore and being ethnic Punjabi and a citizen of Pakistan, is OPPOSED to any divison in my province or anywhere in Pakistan, along linguistic lines. I wasn't even born at the time of east Pakistan (now Bangladesh) incident, but it still hurts me, I still feel pain in my heart about that unfortunate incident, please don't tell me it was a military defeat and due to indian intervention, no it was not the case. That was a political defeat and was due to us refusing them the right to form the govt after they clearly won the elections, and NOT to forget the Zulfikar Ali Bhutto slogan of "idhar hum udhar tum". Please note it is the same PPP, now even worse under Zardari, that is again trying to divide us, also note that PPP mainly consists of waderas (landlords) who were the boot lickers of their colonial masters, and just following their policy of "divide and rule" to keep themselves in power. Unfortunately all other political parties are also doing the same except "Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf".
What good PPP has brought in Interior Sindh that it will bring in south Punjab, it will be as backward as interior Sindh for ever under PPP leadership and govt. These political clowns are opposed to any educational reforms, building schools and hospitals especially in rural areas and always want to keep them backwards and don't want to lose their vote bank. ****, political ****.
What govt and opposition parties should do (IF THEY ARE SINCERE) is to dissolve the existing provinces and to finalize a proposal on some mutual formula for creating new provinces, might be 10-15 new provinces throughout Pakistan, also giving full provincial status to Tribal areas and Gilgit Baltistan. With that finalised proposal, go to the people for approval by referandum, if more than 50% people approve it, then go fot it, if more than 50% population rejects it, then retain the existing provinces but do give provincial status to tribal areas and Gilgit Baltistan in any case, and also implement some reforms to de-centralize the power structure in existing four provinces, also bring local governments, further improve and strengthen them.
Also we need to switch to Presidential system or the French system because of its separation of power and efficient check and balance structure, this current system of Parliamentary democracy, which we got from the British is BOGUS and will never work in Pakistan. I think PTI, MQM and JI are already in favour of Presidential (or the French) system but I think PPP and PMLN will never be in favor of it because it will decrease or rather eliminate the importance of waderas (landlords) from the system, so ordinary people of Pakisan will be free and they will never be able to come into power again, so these two parties will oppose it to death. I just hope PTI, JI, MQM and all other parties who are in favour of Presidential system, to work together on this one-point agenda to bring Presidential system in Pakistan, again by referandum. I am sure, if given the opportunity, people in Pakistan, will vote overwhelming in favour of the Presidential system.
sasherwani
Members
So after 3 terms of rule in Punjab and almost a decade of governing the province, these intellectuals come up with an idea that was proposed back in 1948. Well but then again, Noon League is famous for being a plagurist and a slacker. Another surprise (Not!) Punjab will face now is that after these 'waday waday' statements by Noon, nothing will be done to actually implement the idea.
These hogwashes own around 90 seats. teen saal say **** kashti kar rahay hein. Din may larayee raat may bhai bhai. Agar intention saaf hoti to resign kar detay. Government ek din may gir jaati. These people are worse than used toilet paper.
scandinavian
Member
@admin
"@saladin89 and Scandinavian,
Consider this first and final warning form PKP administration.
The quality of discussion has been going down recently and many decent members have either left or leaving due to these non-constructive discussions and personal attacks.
You will be permanently banned without any warning next time.
Admin"
Non constructive discussion?
To ask for a valid reference about the ridiculous claims is that what you think is non-constructive discussion. Sorry, but I disagree with you.. It's your decision, if you choose a side and ban me.
Adonis
Member
@ mangoman
I agree that there should be no division on linguistic basis as it will lead to further division on the basis of tribes and castes etc. Bu there is nothing wrong with creating more provinces to improve governance.
We have become a Yugoslavia like country where everyone is aligning with provincial identity first and national unity has become secondary. The only logical solution is to divide the country into smaller administrative units so the linguistic and ethnic biases can be diminished.
Punjab has to take the lead in this as it is the biggest province. Once punjab is divided into say five smaller provinces, it will result in division of other provinces as well because otherwise these provinces will lose their present position in CCI, NFC and the senate.
scandinavian
Member
I don't believe that any province need to take the lead. IMO all divisions should be made at the same time - otherwise we will may risk that certain parties can misuse the situation. I also favor a division on a non-linguistic base!
Insaaniat being a second ID of awanrules is blocked.
Insaaniat aka awanrules, has previously posted a similar post informing us that he (awanrules) would be leaving due to reasons quite different then he holds now as Insaaniat: http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/my-last-post-on-pkpoliticsgood-bye-and-salamthis-is-my-last-thread-here?view=all
Awanrules left to reappear as Insaaniat. Same drama is being staged once again!
This drama ends now.
Awanrules should post as awanrules. His later registerations are and will be disabled.
secularists
Member
PML-N is apparently a party of stupid morons who think they know politics.The only person in touch with reality in PMLN is Javed Hashmi.
The central Punjab vote bank is not going anywhere, so why are they bent on forcing the people of south Punjab to vote for PPP?
Guess what Shahbaz Sharif has done a miserable job south of Vehari and people are not gonna vote for you Sharif brothers if you deny them a province as they want it. And currently they want a seraiki and a Bhawalpur province.
With this mind blowing politics of non-sense PML-N is ensuring that PPP sweeps the next elections.
coolbema
Member
@scandi
@Saladin89
Calm down and chill out!!
why u guys take it personally. we are on discussion forum, just discuss give ideas logics and go to sleep.
scandinavian
Member
@CB
I am as calm as I can get ;)
If the admin wants a good and sober debate then we need bloggers who make a stance with logical conclusions or at least with proper references.
Adonis
Member
@ coolbema
Asking for logic and coherence from fan club is too much to ask. After all, their "idol" is super human who can do no wrong and whatever he says is universal truth .... or so does the "worshiping" flock believes !!!!
siddiqi73
Member
@scandinavian
"@CB
I am as calm as I can get ;)
If the admin wants a good and sober debate then we need bloggers who make a stance with logical conclusions or at least with proper references."
The above notion coming from the fan club....hahahahahahahahaha......
Anwer Kamal
Member
http://www.samaa.tv/newsdetail.aspx?ID=35025&CID=1
There is a move.
Resolution for Saraiki province submitted in PA
I can not say it a positive move.
It is without any necessary consultation and preparation.
I am looking for some move by PML N themselves.
coolbema
Member
Always some logical moves by PML-N..if they decided then must be beneficial for Pakistan
saladin89
Member
@coolbema
brother u mentioned always some logical moves by PML N, could u give some examples of the positive moves in the past 3.5 years.
Thanks
2011pakistan
Member
new provinces within Punjab on linguistic basis are negation of two nation theory. The only purpose is to cut PMLN in size.
If Punjab is to be divide into 2/3 small size provincs why not same principle ageeable in Singh/Balochistan and KPK ?
The main reason is prejudiceness with Punjab and PMLN.
PPP since last few days avoiding making new provinces in Punjab because, PPP think that if Punjab is divided into 2/3 provinces they will get overwhelming majority in Senate on permanent basis.
Proposed Seriky province, proposed Hazara province and Punjab , all these three future provinces will have increased majority in Senat and more popularity of PMLN.
Short sighted policy based on crushing Punjab/PMLN will never pay the rezults which PPP wants.
Anwer Kamal
Member
PML N have realized the situation.
http://e.jang.com.pk/08-06-2011/Karachi/images/1035.gif
abdulqayyumrao
Member
THE GREAT PUNJAB, NO MORE PROVINCES (PIECES) YET of
PUNJAB PAKISTAN
(NO NEED OF PIECES BUT PEACE ONLY)
Punjab is not such a big province that it has become difficult to rule and administer. The ruler of Punjab may be inefficient but it is not difficult to rule the Pak Punjab. Lets have a look on Indian side , we find much more bigger / greater provinces than our Punjab, but they are ruling properly and no need and demand of dividing those provinces in India. Then why our Pak Punjab be divided in two ,three or four provinces only on linguistic basis. Siraeki is also a Punjabi language. Let us have a look on population, area and other aspects of Indian provinces which are bigger than our Pak Punjab.
Province Population Area KM
Pak Punjab 81,330,531 205,344 Smaller than many Indian provinces
INDIA
Uttar Pradesh 199,581,477 243,286 Km More than Double the Pak Punjab, & greater than Pakistan
West Bengal 91,347,736 88,752Km Greater than Punjab Including Kolkata
Andhra Pradesh 84,665,533 275,045Km Greater than Punjab
Bihar 103,804,637 99,200Km Greater than Punjab
Madhya Pradesh 72,597,565 308,252Km Nearer to Pak Punjab
Maharashtra 112,372,972 307,713Km Greater than Punjab
Tamil Nadu 72,138,958 130,058Km Nearer to Pak Punjab
According to above chart there are a number of provinces which are greater than Pak Punjab, even a few are larger than Pakistan. We see in these provinces Govt are running properly.
This shows that the division of our Punjab (Making provinces) is not a problem it the problem with some so-called politicians whose Lack of administration, improper division of Govt funds and negligence, inefficiency, lack of devotion towards the service of the people of that Areas representatives (MNA , MPA , District chairman). Other wise there is no problem with this rich, fertile, brave and the host province
‘’The Punjab’’ ……
NO MORE PROVINCES (PIECES) YET
Of PUNJAB PAKISTAN
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