PKPolitics Discuss » Video Links

For Pakistan, or for Islam?: A great article in guardian

(13 posts)
  1. ucsher
    Member

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/27/pakistan-nation-religion

    As Pakistan wastes away in its existential crisis, a fundamental question about the nature of the country is coming to the fore: are its citizens Pakistanis who happen to be Muslims, or are they Muslims who happen to be Pakistanis? Which comes first, flag or faith?

    It is not a question that many Pakistanis can readily answer. The vast majority of the country's so-called "educated elite" seem to have no qualms about identifying themselves as Muslims first and Pakistanis second. Some feel that their religion is the most important thing to them, and that that's where their first loyalty will always lie. Others admit to having scant regard for religion, but say Pakistan has come to mean so little to them that their religion supersedes their loyalty to the country.

    This willingness to subordinate state to God, even among the highly educated, lies at the heart of Pakistan's crisis. How can a country be expected to prosper if the majority of its citizens harbour only a secondary allegiance to the state? How can it progress if, as the author MJ Akbar wrote, "the idea of Pakistan is weaker than the Pakistani".

    But what is the idea of Pakistan?

    Back in the heady days of the 1940s, Muhammad Ali Jinnah rallied a people to nationhood. Despite his Anglophone status and Victorian manners, he carved out a separate homeland for India's Muslims. But, today, an erudite, westernised lawyer like Jinnah would find it impossible to win a popular election in Pakistan.

    For the real Jinnah is now irrelevant in the country that reveres him as "Quaid-e-Azam", or founder of the nation. Few Pakistanis have the time or inclination to think about their founder's ideas. Jinnah's idea of Pakistan – south Asian Muslim nationalism – has been overrun by the dogma of Islamic universalism.

    The modern Pakistani identity is shaped largely by the negation of an Indian-Hindu identity and the adoption of a global pan-Islamic charter. Economic advancement is taken to mean westernisation or worse, Indianisation. At every turn, Pakistanis seem more likely to unite as brothers in Islam than as sons of the same soil.

    Moreover, Pakistan's fear of vilification and failure has given birth to an increasingly paranoid brand of Islam that seeks to impose stricter controls – on education, women's rights, dancing, beardlessness, and sex – and close society to all forms of modernity. This paranoid Islam, represented by hardline outfits such as the Tablighi Jamaat, is Pakistan's fastest-growing brand of faith.

    Pakistan is now at a crossroads, facing an uneasy moment of truth. To survive, its citizens must act in unison or risk seeing every moderate tendency in the country purged by a clamour of illiberal, religious voices.

    Today's crisis calls for every Pakistani to ask serious questions: What should be the idea of Pakistan? Are you Pakistanis who happen to be Muslims, Christians, or Hindus? Or are you members of a global Islamic ummah who just happen to live in Karachi or Lahore?

    The real challenge, and the ultimate solution, is to get people to think and talk about these questions. But this must be a debate between people, and within people. Nothing will be solved by searching for the "true Islam" or by quoting the Koran.

    The point is that eventually, despite strong regional loyalties and various cultural and religious differences, the majority can identify as being simply "Pakistani" – even though they may harbour radical differences about what this might mean. The real idea of Pakistan, ultimately, must be multiplicity.

    Today, we have come to understand ourselves as composites; often contradictory and internally incompatible. In the Babarnama, for example, we see the internal contradictions in the personality of the founder of the Mughal Empire. When describing his conquest of Chanderi in 1528, Babar offers gruesome details of the gory slaughter of many "infidels" but just a few sentences later he talks at length about Chanderi's lakes, flowing streams and sweet water. So who was Babar, bloodthirsty tyrant, humanist poet, or both – and not necessarily at odds with each other?

    Pakistan's selfhood must be expanded ad maximum and made so capacious that it accommodates its Punjabis, Sindhis, Pathans and Balochis, and their religions – Sunni, Shia, Hindu, Christian, Parsi, Qadhianis – until it is possible to call them all equally "Pakistani". That must be the ultimate goal, and step one in the long, winding battle to save Pakistan.

    That is a national idea worth striving for – and Pakistan's intellectuals, its elite and its youth must be at the forefront of the battle. The Crescent has cast a seemingly interminable shadow across the length of Pakistan. Its tragedies and failings are a result of what is happening in God's name, not Jinnah's. To save Pakistan, Jinnah's spirit, his moth-eaten ideals, must be renewed and Pakistanis must ask themselves what Pakistan really means.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 18:24 #
  2. crocodile
    Blocked

    Again you needed Rakesh Mani and Zehra writing for an Anglo newspaper to help you to define yourself?I call it running here and there to be at peace while the peace lies in right down there (not down there you pervert but)in your heart!...within yourself!...Know yourself!

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 18:29 #
  3. ucsher
    Member

    @crocodile

    Do you know soon you are going to even let go of using English as a mean of communication?

    You are a typical case and i guess it is just a matter of time!;)

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 18:36 #
  4. Slogans like “Pakistan ka matlab kia? La ilaha illilah”. “Lay kay rahaingain Pakistan, Butt kay rahega Hindustan”, etc. were more to identify Muslims’ culture and identity as a separate nation demanding a separate home land and to counter the Hinduistic Band-e-Matram of the Akhand Bharat than a demand for an orthodox Islamic country.

    Had the Pakistan movement any religious overtones, then how could almost all Ulema oppose it, or call its leader Kafir-e-Azam? It is yet another matter that most of them chose to stay behind and did not migrate to the ‘Land of the Pure’ till after quite some time of its inception, till they found the opportune time to do so?

    I do not recollect any of the Muslim League political gatherings, Executive Committee meetings or other functions commencing their proceedings with the recitation from the holy Qura’n or even a Na’at or a Hamd by a Maulvi or Maulana. It was always an appropriate poem befitting the occasion read out by a political worker. There was no display of religiosity in the religious sense any where during the Pakistan movement and yet the Islam and the Muslim nationhood was its political plank and platform.

    Once Pakistan achieved the Quaid in his very first address of 11 August 1947 to the Constituent Assembly said,

    ”From here on Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims,

    not in the religious sense but in the political sense. We are all Pakistanis first and then Muslims and Hindus”.

    Nothing could be more unambiguous about Quaid’s vision of Pakistan. It wasn’t that he was against Islam in any way. Far from it. He had on the other hand on many an occasion said categorically that Pakistan will be governed in accordance with the injunctions of Islam and Qura’n. Speaking at a broadcast speech from All India Radio Bombay on 13 November 1939, he said:-

    “All social regeneration and political freedom must finally depend on something that has a deeper meaning in life. And that, if you will allow me to say so, is Islam and Islamic spirit --- --- In the pursuit of truth and cultivation of beliefs we should be guided by our RATIONAL interpretation of the Qura’n and our devotion to truth is single minded, we shall in our own measure, achieve our goal.”

    The emphasis was on the rational interpretation of Qura’n (keeping in time & space with it) and not as interpreted by someone totally devoid of the scientific and technological advancement of the present day and the future.

    Similarly replying to a correspondent’s question in 1946 at New Delhi, as to what type of constitution Pakistan will have? The Quaid had replied, ”I cannot say as to what type of constitution Pakistan will have, as it is a matter for the future Constituent Assembly of Pakistan to decide, but we have our 1400 year old constitution – the Qura’n with us to draw from”. (Note, ‘Draw from’)
    http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?176205

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 18:46 #
  5. NNL
    member

    Arey Guys YOU MISSED THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IN THE ARTICLE.

    Moreover, Pakistan's fear of vilification and failure has given birth to an increasingly paranoid brand of Islam that seeks to impose stricter controls – on education, women's rights, dancing, beardlessness, and sex – and close society to all forms of modernity. This paranoid Islam, represented by hardline outfits such as the Tablighi Jamaat, is Pakistan's fastest-growing brand of faith.

    lol

    So Uscher would let ur sisters and daughters be dancing and allow them to have sex i.e premartial sex or would you rather be on the forefront of the PARANOID ISLAM.

    Carefully choose your answer mate cos you might have to prove it by example.

    Uscher my friend when will you realise that no matter what you do it will be never enuf for these masters that you serve. Arey ask them whats wrong with stop girls going into dance clubs and stopping them from sex outside marriage.

    Are they to tell us that such things are moral and therefore girls have every right to be free in the sense that they should be allowed to dance in the bars and atleast have some 'good' experience when they get married.

    And when Islam tells them not to do so Islam is paranoid.

    Lol

    Wow you people have some brilliant logic Masha Allah.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 19:25 #
  6. crocodile
    Blocked

    "uscsher:even let go of using English".

    You are mistaken.I can speak several languages.And no prejudice against one particular language.But would learn more if i can.It doesn't hurt.

    Semirza: Is that your reasoning?...where is your reasoning?You want me to respond to you or that Bhangi Riaz Jafri?.He has qouted his email.I can respond to him..email him and enquire....:)...IF you want to debate with me write on your own.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 19:28 #
  7. NNL
    member

    Arey my friend even the Most stricter Wahabis have come to the point that yes Medicine and Education are the 2 fields where the presence of the Women is utterly needed and are therefore encouraging their daughters to go in that field.

    But thats not the point of Paranoid Secularism it wants your mothers,sisters and daughters to be dancing in front of them for their own pleasure and then taste them as much as they so the girls can have a 'good but necessary' experience.

    No matter how backward is Islam atleast it appeals to the GHEERA of the Person

    People seem to have misplaced it or lost it.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 19:29 #
  8. ucsher
    Member

    @NNL

    Bro, for once, try to rise above petty points like girls, sex,dancing and see the bigger point that the article is making

    The reality is that no matter how much we try to put it under the carpet but the fact remains that we are a confused nation right now who don't know whether to give preference to our state first or to keep fighting invisible dangers in the name of Islam.

    The fact is that Islam was never in any kind of danger in Pakistan to begin with (or tell me one thing that hinders you from fulfilling your religious obligations here, un less of course you want to fight proxy islamic wars in other countries by using pakistani soil) yet the fact that our state is in so much of turmoil these days just tell us one thing

    "That somewhere while achieving our utopian
    "Islam-International" religious agendas we forgot that we also had a country to care for"

    and as a result its not Islam which is in danger in our state but the state it self!

    "Musalman TU HUM HINDUSTAN MAI BHI THAY, JAB PAKISTAN HI NAHI RAHAY GA TU KAHAN SE PAKISTANI BANAIN GAY"

    Hope you get the point!

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 20:40 #
  9. crocodile
    Blocked

    "we are a confused nation"

    Not we as a nation my dear;its YOU as an individual!

    Tea time!

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 20:44 #
  10. ucsher
    Member

    @crocodile

    Andhoon main agar kana kahay ga ke usay is duniya main black ke siwa kuch aur bhi rung dikhtay hain tu wu usay confused hi kahain gay

    Tahajud time (i guess;)

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 20:48 #
  11. crocodile
    Blocked

    wrong analogy my friend!

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 20:58 #
  12. NNL
    member

    Uscher my friend the article points out that you have to decide whether you want Islam or Pakistan right ?

    Why was pakistan formed in the first place.

    The article contends that Pakistan was formed so that Musalmans of Sub-Continent could live and prosper free from the Brahmanist Policies. right ?

    Now they say that the biggest threat to the Musalman of Pakistan is the Tablighi Jamat and the reasons cited by them are the ones i have quoted them on.

    So my friend if the Musalman formed Pakistan so that he may freely practice his own religion and prospoer accordingly so tell me which of the insecurities mentioned in the article have hampered it. If the Musalman actually agrees that those reasons are the very reason that Pakistan is under threat then something can be done about it. But to the Musalman are those the insecurities that bother him or does he feel that things pointed out as insecurities are the very reason he needs to defend his way of life and religion thus Pakistan ?

    Even the Non-Muslims are courteous enuf to say that Quaid's vision of Pakistan should be sought. But here lies the biggest argument of Quaid when he declared Muslims need a separate state. In order to practice his/her religion every Musalman should strive for a separate state. Now how does a Musalman practice his religion by adopting the laws Mentioned in the Holy QUran and the Sunnah even Quaid agreed to that.

    You dont seem to see that fact that Qadyanis have been lumped into a Muslim sect. When clearly they have been declared Non Muslims by the Most Secular PM of Pakistan.

    They have told you what the PARANOID ISLAM wants so my question to you is DO You Think that What Paranoid Islam teaches regarding Sex and Dancing is right or wrong.

    Women's education we all have a reached a conclusion so tell me where does the Tablighi Jamat says that disconnect from Modernity ?

    Uscher my friend understand their arguments before you launch yourself in advocating them.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 21:05 #
  13. NNL
    member

    Uscher my friend Musalman is not confused he is pretty sure on what he wants. the problem is that people who believe in the arguments set forth by the article as Paranoid Islam have to decide whether they agree with the socalled Paranoid version of Islam.

    The seculars if they believe that PAranoid Islam is the biggest threat then i did like to see them come up and say
    " you know what we dont mind that our women folk dance and have premarital sex"

    All the notable scholars have agreed that Women's education is needed in certain areas of the Society and thus shouldnt be hampered.

    What you seem to be bothered is about the nutcracker version of the Mullah and his insane version of Islam.

    But have you noticed that the said nutcracker Mullah has no bearing none whatsoever in the corridors of the Govt. or are you blind to that fact cos it doesnt suit you.

    Its you and me and others like us who are responsible for the destruction of PAksitan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 May 2009 21:12 #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.