uthoyay
Member
Forget about new dams, we want to demolish current dams
This was the discussed in Sindh Assembly.
“Hum Nay Kala Baagh Kay Issue Ko Khatam Kiya Tha, aur aaj main ailaan karta hoon kay Chasma Canal per koyee power plant nahee lagay ga.
Unhoon nay kaha kay hum baraaay dams to kya, kisee bhee dam kee tameer kay haq main nahee hain, balkay hum to pehlay say mojood dams ka bhee khaatma chahatay hain”.
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/feb2010-daily/25-02-2010/main2.htm
W-T-F !!!!!
RajputPuttar
Member
uth oyay bahi,
Do u know whats Chasham jehlum problem ?
uthoyay
Member
Because PPP hate cheap electricity and want IPP/Rentals to make commission.
toamin
member
uth oyay... electricity? i thought it was about punjab diverting indus water to jehlam?
gv
Member
the indus is silting up at the delta because of all the dam and irrigation work carried out over the past 100 years - sindhi agriulture has suffered the most because of this.. which is why they are against the dams..
RajputPuttar
Member
uth oyay
Sir,
a) A link canal is not meant to be an all season canal.
b) Its not used for irrigation purposes.
c) The only purpose of it is to transfer "excess flood" water from indus to rivers which have been surrender to india under indus basin water treaty.
d) There is an agreement betwen punjab & sindh , called Ramaey mumtaz agreement which was signed by CM's of punjab & sindh in 1974/75 to govern this CJ link canal.
This agreement specifically states taht this CJ Link canal will only operate in flood season when sindh permits .
e) Interesting , rather 'afssosnaak' thing is that this agreement hasn't been followed and CJ has been operational mostly.
f) Main reasons , KB dam was opposed by sindh was distrust created by this violation on CJ and sindhi nationalist say that we can't trust punjab anymore.
Hope u understand that its not related to IPP or rentals PP.
RajputPuttar
Member
Further,
ITs not a dam. Its a power plant proposed on CJ Link Canal.
toamin
member
well done! but you used an ace card in response to a dukkee :)
RajputPuttar
Member
Salam bahi,
:)
Sir , it was necessary. I asked this gentleman first that whether he knows the problem or not. And u can judge his answer yourself. not to offend, but its mere PPP hate.
Further, aap say barai zaroori baat karni thi.
aap yaahan paar haain. haaris bahi , mujh say naraz ho gaey haain aur meeray sawalat kaa jawab nahi daay rahey. Aap say request kii haai , meri un say suleh karwa daain.
toamin
member
haris kee representation zarori hay warna qoram pura nahi hota... aye gaa haris zaroor aye gaa :)
uthoyay
Member
@Rajuput Puttar,
First, instead of diverting topic to Chasma Power Plant, just explain why Sindh wants to demolish current dams?
I am not expert on this, but what I know is the following benefits of dams:
1- Cheapest electricity. Pakistan used to one of the top textile exporter and now all industries in Faisalabad and elsewhere are closed on average of 50% of the time due to lack of electricity. They are on verge of permanently shutting down.
The cost of electricity via IPPs has gone so much up in recent years that we can't even compete with textile products of Bangladesh in international market. With Pakistan's budget deficit running in record losses, we need to revive our industry on emergency basis to get foreign reserves.
Of course that does not matter for MNAs/MPAs of Sindh, since their voters care more about their farms than the well being of economy of Pakistan in total, or don't understand the importance of industries.
2- What I know is that huge amount of water is wasted every year and gets thrown into Arabia Sea. The amount of water wasted is equivalent of capacity of 2 Tarbela Dams as per experts. We could save this water if we have more dams.
3- Every year, we have floods in Pakistan that destroys villages, crops and infrastructure. If we have dams, we could save this destruction.
4- If we have dams, we can save water and provide it in a more efficient way through rivers for better agriculture and crops.
RajputPuttar
Member
uth oyay
CJ is not a dam bahiiya. Its a link canal
Yaar, phley thora saa paarh tu liya karo topic paar.
RajputPuttar
Member
salam baahi,
aap ki tawajahoo kaa liye
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/harris-bahi-awaaz-do-kahan-hoo
uthoyay
Member
@RajputPuttar,
Why don't you first read the TOPIC of the post before dragging CJ link debate?
Forget about new dams, we want to demolish current dams
RajputPuttar
Member
Meeray piyaray bahi,
Why this whole debate is taking place at this point of time ? please read your opening message as well as the link u have provided in that.
this was muhammad ali shah of fisher folk forum.
"Forget about new dams, we want to demolish current dams"
RajputPuttar
Member
Tu bahi
U want to revive the FAisalabd industry on the cost of thirsty sindh ?
Bahi , when india violates Indus BAsin treaty , Pakistan runs to world bank . What should sindh do when punjab violates ramany mumtaz agreement ? or other agreements .
Prlbem is the same . Isn't ?
uthoyay
Member
@RP,
Regardless of the topic that initiated this debate, my concern remains the same.
How come anyone say that "They will not let any new dam built, but also destroy the old dams".
Your idiotic response is like:
Since beating a boy is bad, don't argue if the boy's friends burns down the entire country. Just stay focus that the boy was beaten and don't talk anything else.
gv
Member
@uth oyay
i think you are failing to recognize the ecological damage that has been wreaked on pakistan's river systems by the damns and irrigation works and also the economic damage to the sindhi farmer and fisherfolk - are they less important than manufacturers and mill owners ?
gv
Member
The issue has to be addressed to the mutual benefit of all parties involved - not just one party
RajputPuttar
Member
uth oyay
Bahi, dams bhi yahaan hii haain aur canals , nobody is destrying but if u deny someone , his basic right of water , he will say everything in agner.
Why u r concerned aobut words why not acutal problem ?
uthoyay
Member
@RP,
You go back to your farm and stop wasting our electricity. It is not about Faisalabad, it is about the whole textile exports of Pakistan that runs the economy.
Hopefully you won't need Internet anymore when Pakistan runs out of remaining electricity and when foreigners stop lending more money to Pakistan to buy oil of IPPs.
Of course the core export of Textile does have no meaning for $$$$ like you and you are least bothered about earning foreign $ with grace and honor.
You like to be beggar like Zardari begging for money from everyone in the world in return of keeping your farm green for just few years, after which there will be no more water.
uthoyay
Member
@gv,
Read my previous post. The dams brings water to everyone, including Sindhi farmers.
They don't want to built any dams or power project, while our neighbors build every possible dam.
Just tell me what will happen after few years when you don't initiate any project related to water?
RajputPuttar
Member
UO
Do u know that the two major dams we have , their primary purpose is not electricity generation ? Their primary purpose is water storage for irrigation and electricity generation is a bye-product.
Gentleman , no dam can be built until we have a reliable system and trust among the stakeholders.
When Tarbella & mangla were built ? When water dispute between india and pak was resolved and WB came as trust worthy arbitrator . Right?
Similary , we need to have a reliable system which has trust of all stake holders. If we do agreemnets like ramay mumtaz or 1991 water distribuion accord and then start violating it, how come we can achieve this objective .
RajputPuttar
Member
Just to give u a quite recent example , look at Greater Thal Canal. Read a bit about it and then i will tell u another story.
uthoyay
Member
@RP,
Wow. The electricity is the by-product.
This is same level of idiotic statement I have heard from the newspaper that "we must destroy dams".
You should bring a bill in assembly to rename WAPDA to WDA.
You also remind me of statement Dr. Evil from Austin Powers:
Why make Trillions when we can make Billions?
Your statement is similar:
Why make cheap electricity when we can make expensive one
W-T-F!!!
RajputPuttar
Member
uth oyay
bahyiya , aap mujh par kiyon naraz hotey haain. STudy indus basin treaty .
If u have any link in WAPDA , they can vouch my statement as well.
BAhi ,my father himself is a hydrologist and worked in tarbeela project both pre-construction investigation and during construcition.
uthoyay
Member
@RJ,
Aap mahaan hoo. Main apni haar tasleem karta hoon.
Rab Rakha
RajputPuttar
Member
UO
Bahi i never/ever meant to humilate or embarass u. I just shared my information .
take care.
zia m
Member
If you take out electric current from water it loses its power and is rendered useless for irrigation.That is the kind of argument you get from some farmers.We have a long way to go in educating our masses.
This has actually happened in Gurdaspur area of East Punjab (India) in late 60's when farmers agitated and gathered in large numbers in Delhi. (pani wichoun rirrk key bijli kud laindey ho tey phoka pani sanu - fasla'an kidan howan)Now a farmer is much better off and well informed. This is true for a farmer who owns and farms his land. Not a hari/mazara type who struggles to make ends meet!
This problem of Arabian Sea eating up Sindh's land is just a baloney. Yes it will happen, only if the global warming is true and all the world glaciers melt down. In that case even without dams no one can save the coastal lands.
I have myself visited the area from Mirpur Sakro (south of Gharo, near Karachi) down to the Arabian sea. You can not imagine the excesses of canal water this area has.
I remember in Punjab the farmers usually have a BIG clock with them when irrigating their land. This clock is used to time your turn and duration as the water has been rationed since the late 1800 - the development of greater irrigation system. Surprisingly, there is no concept of water timer in lower Sindh. I have myself witnessed water flowing into the ocean from the canal dis-tributary as the farms were already irrigated enough. The farmers themselves told me that they do not have any shortages of water.
RajputPuttar
Member
Azizi
Gharo kaay pass koonsi canal aa gaayi. The last barrage on indus is kotri which is close to hyderabad. Yeh gharo koonsi canal aa gaayi ? do u remember any name?
RP,
I do not know the exact name of the canals. But I know the flow. A big canal from Kotri barrage feeds the Keenjhar lake (north of Thatta). Then two big canals come out of Keenjhar lake. One of them is a Kalri Baghar Feeder canal goes north of Thatta and Gharo. The other ones (I think the names are Ghar Masan and Jam Wah) along with its dis-tributaries irrigate the area around Thatta and south of Gharo to Mirpur Sakro. See the following map. (Zoom in to see the detail)
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=24.7583671&lon=67.9102707&z=12&l=0&m=b
Yes, there is a natural process of soil compression and land sinking in every delta. Once the feeder rivers dry up, which bring rich-moist soil, the soil looses its spongy-ness. It becomes compact and sometime even goes below the sea level. See information about New Orleans Mississippi delta.
Pakistanis have built a massive levee system to protect the land from ocean south of Gharo if and when it happens. This area is still above sea level on the average of 30 feet or more.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Dams are critical to long term future of Pakistan, be it for fulfilling our needs of electricity or for having water when we need it, in times of shortages.
ALL other considerations are secondary, and must be addressed accordingly.
The future of millions of people of this nation cannot be allowed to be plunged into darkness on the basis of 'suspicions', 'doubts' about usage of dams.
Dams can only hold a certain amount of water. There's too much water that goes to sea and gets wasted in the process. We need to curb this 'wastage', right now!.
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