PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Freedom and its limits

(27 posts)
  1. What is Freedom and what are its limits?

    Super Soldier:

    We find that the whole world is obsessed with the kufr idea of freedom, i.e. freedom of speech, freedom of movement, etc. In modern schools and universities, we observe independence, free expression and secular thinking being encouraged. This idea of freedom, Its my life, Ill do what I want is a predominant, underlying theme of todays music. It is being used as a means for drilling those modern ideologies that are totally contrary to Islamic Shariah and values, into the minds of Muslims.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 0:26 #
  2. shimatoree
    Member

    Why are the Mullah-cracy afraid of freedom ?

    Simple-

    Because freedom remove the religious slaves from their( Mullah's) shackles and allows them to think for themselves.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 2:14 #
  3. saad.ali.sahi
    Member

    i disagree with shimatoree here because Mullahs want us to think about ourselves and they encourage us to do good deeds for the day of judgement.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 2:23 #
  4. toamin
    member

    Why are freedumb lover afraid of deen of Allah?

    Simple-

    Because deen of Allah removes the freedumb crazy from their animalistic behavior to submission of Allah swt :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 2:30 #
  5. saad.ali.sahi
    Member

    i think most of the people today dont want to live their lives according to islam because if they live an islamic life than they have to give up a lot of things which are very dear to them (and ofcourse these things will lead them to hell)
    1. drinking
    2. hanging out with girls / hanging out with boys (in cases of females
    3. vulgar clothing
    4. interest (riba/sood)
    5. adultery
    and many more...
    the point is have we forgotten our Creator and the day of judgment?

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 2:48 #
  6. junaid
    Member

    those afraid of becoming religious slaves ultimately becomes satans slaves.
    fully agreed with sahi and salam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 6:46 #
  7. saad.ali.sahi
    Member

    agreed with salam and junaid

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 7:58 #
  8. shafiq12
    member

    LIFE H20

    If u cut from din''ullah than there may arose many disease inside u as you can see in Western societies, They call them self, Secular, Their may be freedom of speech etc but All glitter is not Gold. Secularism is curse. Where they are going, That's not freedom, that's the slavery of Desire Allah said in Quran

    "Have you seen the one who has taken his own desire as his god? Would you then be a guardian over him?" [Al-Furqan:43]. 

    Since whims and desires are by their nature constantly changing, the values and behaviours based on them are also mutable. What is considered today to be a crime, punishable by law with the severest of penalties, and causes its practitioners to be deprived of certain rights granted to others, becomes permissible tomorrow, or even praiseworthy, and the one who objects to it becomes "politically incorrect."

    Western, secular societies are the clearest examples of the shifting, self-contradictory nature of jahili civilization. From one angle it views culture and the values it rests upon as a relative, variable phenomenon. However, from another angle it characterises some values as human values, views their violation as shocking, and punishes their violators severely. The sources of this problem are two fundamental principles which democratic secular societies rely upon The first is majority rule as a standard for right and wrong in speech and behaviour; the second is the principle of individual freedom. These two principles will necessarily conflict with each other if they are not subordinated to another principle that will judge between them. Secularism, by its very nature, rejects religion, and in its Western form it does not consider fitrah (innate values) a criterion for what is beneficial or harmful for humanity. It has no alternative but to make these two principles an absolute standard for what behaviour is permissible and appropriate, and what isn't. The contradiction and conflict between these two principles is showing itself plainly in some of the current hot issues in these societies. Those who advocate the acceptance of homosexuality and the granting to avowed homosexuals equal rights and opportunities in every aspect of life, including military service, base their argument on the principle of individual rights. They see no one as having the right to concern themselves with what they call their "sexual orientation.
    The same argument is made by supporters of abortion. You frequently hear them say incredulously, "How can I be prohibited from freedom of choice in my own affairs and over my own body? What right do legal authorities have to involve themselves in such personal matters?" The only argument their opponents can muster is that this behaviour contradicts the values held by the majority of the population. Even though the basis for many people's opposition to abortion is moral or religious, they can't come out and say so openly, nor can they employ religious or moral arguments, since secular society finds neither of them acceptable. Moral values, such as honesty, trustworthiness, justice and chastity, are originally innate values which Allah planted in the hearts of mankind; then He sent His messengers with a system of life in accord with this innate disposition to affirm it.

     "So set your face toward thereligion, as one by nature upright; the instinctive (religion) which Allah has created in mankind. There is no altering (the laws) of Allah's creation. That is the right religion but most people do not know." [Surat Al-Rum:30].

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 9:58 #
  9. rashidsaleem
    Member

    A very interesting topic, I believe people who do not
    understand the concepts of “liberalism” think that liberal people have no
    boundaries and intrude into the lives of other people. That is not the case. A
    liberal always respect the privacy of other people. Freedom comes with great
    responsibility.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 10:41 #
  10. toamin
    member

    that is the point rashidsaleem, who defines what is liberalism? tell me if you have a universal definition applicable at every place of the world?

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 10:51 #
  11. 1. drinking2. hanging out with girls / hanging out with boys (in cases of females3. vulgar clothing4. interest (riba/sood)5. adultery
    and many more...

     
    All of these are moral diseases, if one is not a Muslim, he can still judge what is wrong in this stuff. I think Islam is here to 'teach' moral actually...

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:27 #
  12. toamin
    member

    how can he still judge? don't you see that currently in the world at one place what is considered moral & ethical is considered immoral & unethical at another place?

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 13:22 #
  13. You are right. They are affected people who can not judge, also if they are not muslim they do not even follow their own religion or any religion at all. They are 'free', free to do anything without noticing the long term effects perhaps.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 15:29 #
  14. toamin
    member

    free or freedumb to do anything is just a dogma, a blind faith, at the end of day humans live with rules, laws and boundaries -period. 

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 16:52 #
  15. shimatoree
    Member

    lifeH2O

    . Your quote-"They are 'free', free to do anything without noticing the long term effects perhaps." end of quote. The most important word you have used is " perhaps". They are free to be right. They are free to be wrong. And they are wrong a lot of times and they do pay the price for that.But are the Muslims free ? No.The Clergy tells us that if we follow their rules- we will do very well.Do we do very well ?Only the Zardaris, Nawaz Shareefs and Fazlus do very well.The poor don't do very well at all. In fact they do very badly.Plus they have to live constantly in fear- getiing burned in hell for one.Plus they give up this world for the next promised land of canals of milk and honey and so on. Perhaps if the poor of Pakistan were given a choice to be free and do whatever they wished to do- they at least might be happier if still poor.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 17:19 #
  16. toamin
    member

    finally atheist's symptoms are appearing nicely :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 17:21 #
  17. The problem with clergy is that it is not 'United'. One tells me 'this is right', other tells me 'no, that one is right'.

    These Mullahs would be a lot better, nicer and really useful if they can gather at one point, united, come up with same ideology and thoughts and rules everywhere.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 18:38 #
  18. shimatoree
    Member

    lifeH2O


               if they did that then how will they get their Halwa ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 19:19 #
  19. Politics is very open market for Halwa suckers. They don't even need training :-)

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 19:34 #
  20. @LIFEH2O, You seem to want the truth on a plate, which is never gonna happen. If Mullahs are bad and are to be rejected because they're not unanimous on Islamic issues and concepts, then what about religions? Is the world unanimous on the fact that Islam is the true religion? Jews will tell you they're right, and so would other religions, then would you leave Islam because of this? If NO, then your reason to despise the clergy for the same reason is beyond my comprehension. It seems to me that Mullahs have become a perfect scapegoat for attacking Islam. Although criticizing Mullahs doesn't necessarily amount to attacking Islam, but what most of the people are attacking on this forum as merely the handy-work of the Mullahs, is mentioned in the Quran, but since those hypocrites cannot directly criticize the words of GOD, they choose an easy way to vent their frustration. But one can understand their intentions behind what they state, as they themselves say: read between the lines.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 19:40 #
  21. @umer i do not agree, religions are different from each other but why you want the difference inside religion? Does not Allah say to be united? If they have accepted Islam came into a circle, why create their own circles? why 'derh eent ki masjid'?

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 19:49 #
  22. @ LIFEH2O,

    I maintain that difference of opinion in the rulings of the branches of the Islamic law is a mercy as stated by our master Rasul Allah SAW, but if you disagree with that, then would you deny that the criteria to judge who deviated from the mainstream Islam is the Quran and how Rasul Allah SAW understood it and what he taught to his sahaba's? So can you prove that your beliefs coincide with the teachings of Quran and Sunnah? For a start, you believe Jesus (as) was crucified and so he died, can you prove Rasul Allah SAW or the earlier Muslims believed that?

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 20:06 #
  23. That is the reason for existence of Quran Alone group, at last Quran is the one on which every one is agreed. If everyone is in one circle of Islam and accept The One Quran, there is no need to create more circles inside. No more sects, no more divisions

    Posted 1 year ago on 23 Sep 2010 7:49 #
  24. ammarisb
    Member

    A rational way is to question
    everything as blind faith maybe comforting but it offers no insights. By
    putting limits on freedom we are actually putting a tab on our thinking.

    <o:p> </o:p>

    Posted 1 year ago on 23 Sep 2010 9:11 #
  25. Revivalist
    member

    ST,

    please dont hide behind the term 'Mullah', we all know that you seculars cant confront from the front but always use wolrds the suites you and your evil propaganda against Islam and Muslims.

    Freedom does not exist any where in the world as every society in governmened by certain rules and regulation, the only difference is that in secular/athiest societies they decide upon the most irrational and illegical principle of MAJORITY while for us the reference point is QURAN & SUNNAH. Hence those who claim to be free are infact deceiving themselves or been deceived by their masters.

    Posted 1 year ago on 23 Sep 2010 9:23 #
  26. ammarisb
    Member

    State censorship gives fuel to propaganda as the
    public does not have access to independent news so they fall prey to whatever
    is being said by propaganda cells. Extremist ideologies can be countered by a
    healthy debate were one has the opportunity to speak out his/her thoughts. Such
    interactive debates will help us find the core reasons behind extremist
    tendencies in our society.

    Posted 1 year ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:16 #

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