From Democratic model to Islamic model

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From Democratic model to Islamic model

(30 posts)

sandman
Member

Whether we like it or not, we have a democratic system in pakistan. If we were to move to an Islamic model, how do we do that?

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 15:42 #
sandman
Member

The solution is in the last sentence of the following hadeeth....and I am sure you will ask how to implement this solution practically....but first read the hadeeth...

Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu ’alayhi wa sallam): "If you indulge in ’eenah transactions when trading and you start to hold on to the tails of cattle and you are satisfied to concentrate only upon farming and you have abandoned Jihaad in the Cause of Allaah, Allaah will cast a humiliation upon you which would never be lifted from you until you return to your Religion."

@sandman

"return to the Islaam" is the solution..right..??...but how do we reach this goal in the real world?

I agree we need to return to Islam. I am trying to do that in my personal life by living in a halal way. Please continue....

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 15:45 #
zaln
Member

which Sharia you like to implement ?

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 15:50 #
wdurrani
Member

@sandman

Okay..that's great we all have to strive to make ourselves, our family, our friends and our neighbours a better Muslim.

Or in other words we can say...learn Islaam and teach Islaam...right...????

But the way Tableeghi Jamaat is doing....sorry...not at all...

So than what?

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 15:53 #
bsobaid
Member

Sir, I dont think there is any such thing as "islamic" governance model. The only guidance it provides is running government by consultation and selecting ruler based on their competence rather than heredity. I feel any government model that adopts these two basic rules is fair and legitimate.

We are just a little obsessed these days with declaring everything as 100% halal. Anday kee zardee se lay kay nizam-e-hukoomat takk.

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 15:54 #
sandman
Member

Wait, I want to see where Durrani saab is heading with this...

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 15:56 #
wdurrani
Member

Or can I say...let's first start with removing "Zulm" from our homes and the society in general.....is it a good intention?

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 15:57 #
wdurrani
Member

@sandman

Do you agree bro?

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:01 #
sandman
Member

Its all good.
With all due respect..Lets just get to the practical solution(s) :)

(i'm trying to do some work at the same time, so pls bear with me if I don't reply immediately)...

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:01 #
wdurrani
Member

@sandman...

Wait bro?....first let me explain a very important point...

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:03 #
sandman
Member

Time for maghrib, back in a few mins...carry on.

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:04 #
wdurrani
Member

Let's suppose a person is suffering from many health issuses...for example, diabetes, high bp, kidney stones, and a dangerous type of cancer...

Now...if that person goes to the doctor for treatment...what problem/disease the doctor should be worried about the most?

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:08 #
wdurrani
Member

@sandman

Sure...I will ba back in few min too...have to pray witr...

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:08 #
sandman
Member

the cancer obviously...

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:15 #
wdurrani
Member

Ok back...sorry took a bit longer...

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:30 #
wdurrani
Member

Ok..great...so our nation is suffering from many disease...right....or in other words ...many types of Zulm...agree???

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:32 #
wdurrani
Member

@sandman

are you there?

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 16:45 #
sandman
Member

Sorry, got dragged into a meeting. Leaving for home now....wont log on until later on in the evening. But we can continue...

To answer your question...

Yes the nation is suffering from many types of ailments.

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 17:37 #
sipahi
Member

One small step,

Setup just mechanisms to implement Article 62 & 63 of the constitution.

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 17:45 #
asif65
Member

the way Tableeghi Jamaat is doing....sorry...not at all...

Bro, I have some questions:
1. Have you spend some time with TJ?
2. Are you a scholar/Alim-e-din?
3. Do you have a better alternative?
4. Behind TJ there is 70 year effort. You want to invent new way? Do you have so much time?
5. TJ is working of Ummah Basis (i.e. over the borders of National, racist, sexual-basis, ..)
6. ...

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 18:34 #
hypocrite
Member

Setup just mechanisms to implement Article 62 & 63 of the constitution.

---------

Sipahi sahib,

I am all for implementation of this small step as long as the step is applied to every citizen of Pakistan.

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 19:17 #
sipahi
Member

@hypocrite

It can't be done in one sweep.
It has to be started from some place and starting from the elected people would provide best initial results and most positive impact on rest of the society.
Then, it should be applied to other aspects of Pakistan.
It might not be possible to have 100% application, but even if the application is 90% - it would lead to a society that is 1000 times better.

Posted 4 months ago on 29 Dec 2011 23:50 #
hypocrite
Member

Sipahi sahib

Agreed one step at a time but then

a) How can I expect my leaders to be better than I?
b) If the leaders have to come from us, then we shall be judged by same rules.

Posted 4 months ago on 30 Dec 2011 0:37 #
sipahi
Member

@hypocrite

There are stories that in western part of USA, early settlers went there because there was gold. Even though, west was very big, people were able to extract gold from large area.

I am confident, there are enough good capable Pakistanis, who meet the criteria and once given a chance to lead will influence rest of us towards goodness.

Posted 4 months ago on 30 Dec 2011 0:50 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

If the Islamic model was first implemented from Jahiliyah model it can be implemented from any model. The so called democratic model is a modern day jahiliyah model.

asif65,

If some model has been tried for 70 years and not properly implemented then the model itself is flawed. TJ model has put the Ummah to sleep for last 70 years. It was a small movement first tried during British days to bring Muslims back to the Masjid. The ideology of TJ's is heavily influenced by sufis and hence their lukewarm attitude to any political change. They shy away from Jihad and concentrate on Ibadah in the masjid.

Due to TJ's lack of interest and participation in the political process we still have crooks ruling the Muslim Ummah. They fail to implement the vital Sunnah of the Prophet SAS ie political and military leadership. They have limited goals and cannot take the Muslim leadership role. They need to abandon their dervish style living and come and face the challenges of the world. They learn English and other lanuages but fail to learn the best sunnah-language of the Prophet SAS. Because of their lack of Arabic language they follow their "elders" more than they follow Quran and Hadith even if the elders are not following correct Aqedah.

These TJ's and sufis remind me of an incident from the days of Khilafa of Omar RA. Some of the Sahabas RA started devoting their entire time in worship and confined themselves to the Masjid. Omar RA saw them and lashed them out of the Masjid and asked them to face the world and bring about change in the society.

The modus opernadi of the TJ is still same as they confine themselves to the masjid. Prophet SAS engaged in building up the foundation of society for 13 years. And then Islamic State was established in Madinah and that will be Muslim's role model until the end of the world.

Posted 4 months ago on 30 Dec 2011 1:40 #
asif65
Member

@AR

If some model has been tried for 70 years and not properly implemented then the model itself is flawed.

TJ is trying to re-implement gradually the model of Islam in individuals, in families, in streets, in shops, in cities, in countries and at the end in the whole world. I have seen these changes in individuals, in families, in streets, in shops, in cities, in countries. There are several example of individuals, families, streets, shops and cities. An example of country is sirilanka. Although sirilanka have not an islamic Govt. but 90% of the muslim population of sirilanka live the islamic way of life. Last time I heard that the sirilanken President (non muslim) consults an Islamic scholar for his political decisions. The movement have already achieved a lot in the whole world. But perhaps for you the only achievement is that what you see on the media.

This model has already been implemented 1400 ago. So how can you say that the model is not implemented?

Your whole post contradict this verse that you post in other thread:

Verily, we have sent down the Book to You In truth: so Worship Allâh (Alone) by doing religious deeds sincerely for Allâh's sake only

Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 1:05 #
ali-pk
Member

@zalaan

the question you have asked sounds like a "broken record" now --- Islam is just Islam , there's no question of which.

The modern churays like to play with words otherwsie we all know which Islam.

Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 6:25 #
salaudin
Member

Here is my take !!
The system should be Islamic AND the way to get individuals elected can and should be democratic. Total democracy (or say Complete Democracy) is not the best system. Ten years ago, American supported the war, now they are opposing it so it does not mean that the majority is always right.

Regarding the question as to "which" islamic system should be implemented; we have "qarardad e maqasid" on which all the Ulama have agreed upon. Besides, we need a detailed Islamic system only at the core and the rest of it would follow.

Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 6:41 #
junaid
Member

islamic model waheen ata hai jahan logh kalmay per amal bhi kartay hain.

Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 7:44 #
asif65
Member

Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 12:32 #