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Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway

(127 posts)
  1. Linkwheel

    State TV broadcaster NRK confirmed at least two people are dead following an explosion that rocked downtown Oslo, Norway.

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22/blast-rips-through-norways-capital-injuries-reported/?hpt=hp_t1

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254705

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 17:21 #
  2. The latest false flag? Cui bono?, one asks and that seems to point to the possible perpetrator. Anyway, the first thing that bothers me already about this story because it duplicates so many other such events in the past: just today, Norwegian PM Stoltenberg was working at home and not in his office. I don't like the sound of this one little bit. But I may be wrong. Let's see.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 17:26 #
  3. Here's a comment from WRH:

    "Norway was ready to recognize a state of Palestine at the United Nations, so I think we know the motive and the identity of the bombers!

    Please post this comment wherever the bombing is reported, because the Megaphonies are already trying to pin the blame on Muslims."

    Let me add myself that Norway was also on the point of evacuating its troops from Afghanistan, much to NATO's opposition.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 17:32 #
  4. hypocrite

    I feel sad on death of two human beings and express my condolences to those who lost their loved ones. There is so much killing going on in a so called 21st century world.

    I condemn those who have carried out this attack and all other attacks which have resulted in deaths of humans and destruction of property.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 17:35 #
  5. bsobaid

    Very sad.

    Probably unrelated but according to cnn

    Person dressed as policeman opens fire at youth camp in Norway, injuring several people, state run NRK reports.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 18:09 #
  6. Strange, Norway, one of the richest countries in the world, going off its head suddenly! God help us!

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 19:36 #
  7. Just_one

    Condemnable incident.

    No idea who is responsible but for the conspiracy theorists: "Chor Choron ki taranh hi socta hai".

    We should rise above from immature thinking.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 19:44 #
  8. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    "We should rise above from immature thinking."

    Maybe you have already decided about who are the culprits.

    What is so special about thinking about who can benefit from such heinous acts?

    Stop being a naive kid!

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 19:47 #
  9. Just_one

    @Scan,

    The conspiracy theorists have given their verdict, as you can see, not I.

    I will wait for the details to come.

    Me being a naive kid?

    If anything that benefits you, is done by you, then by the same token, 9/11 was done by China because isn't that what lead to Afghanistan war, which according to you, led America to the upcoming economic collapse?

    Please be serious.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 19:53 #
  10. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    Look at the way law enforcing authorities work. There are the usual suspects and then there are those who benefit most from certain acts. Sp asking questions is NO sin!

    And still you are naive if you ALWAYS believe in the official version of the story.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 19:57 #
  11. bsobaid

    This benefited the most theory does not make sense to me.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 20:06 #
  12. Scandinavian

    @bsobaid

    Why not?

    I am not saying it is necessarily those who potentially benefit most have done it. One have to look at the broader perspective on top this.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 20:12 #
  13. Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 20:32 #
  14. bsobaid

    Yes, typically you would want to include all those who benefited but for public figures and countries a whole lot of people and entities can benefit. So this whole benefit idea is very vague, inconclusive and infact inaccurate.

    All I can hope for is our country's name does not get involved.

    In Scan countries, and you would know better, there is a surge of ultra nationalist parties who would be considered plain racist in North America and probably UK also and all these racist parties are after muslim minorities causing a lot of tension in those otherwise peaceful nations. There is no lack of stupid and emotional people who would resort to such animalistic measures in reaction.

    All are wild guesses at this point. Hopeful Norway will find the culprits and bring them to justice.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 20:32 #
  15. Some people have already begun pointing out that this is not the work of a car bomb, but explosives within the building. What is you own view?

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 20:33 #
  16. bsobaid

    Hard to tell Ghalib sahab.

    Norway has historically been one of the riches countries in the world but these days is going through a worse economic situation. So there is a lot going on in this country at the moment.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 20:35 #
  17. True enough, bsobaid, true enough. At the moment there is no way of knowing what really happened. Except that from the very first piece I read on the bombing, the blame has already been put on the Muslims. And various hallmarks of what we've come to know as the classic False Flag also seem in place. What a relief it would be to find out it was neither, but some third element whose existence we hadn't even suspected till now.

    In any case, if What Really Happened is right in its views, then I'd say: watch out Iceland. Your turn might well be next.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 21:08 #
  18. Scandinavian

    Here you go, Some "expert" on CNN pointing the fingers towards North Waziristan=Pakistan. Off course this is also a "conspiracy".

    One man dressed as a policeman is caught after he had shot 9 people dead on a nearby island.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Jul 2011 21:32 #
  19. electric

    new information regarding the blast seems like inside job:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks-oslo-bombing-youth-camp

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 1:42 #
  20. 2011pakistan

    i am not surprised if culprits linkage is found one way or the other with Pakistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 7:39 #
  21. Scandinavian

    From electric's link:

    "There were reports that the gunman responsible for the attack on PM Jens Stoltenberg's party youth camp on the island of Utøya was blond haired and Nordic looking – allegations still yet to be confirmed."

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 7:44 #
  22. Just_one

    @Scan,

    I find it abhorrent such mediocre and cheap thinking.

    Again, I tell you, western countries like Norway are established democracies and a government in those countries cannot think about conducting such operations against their people. If anyone think so, he needs to see a psychiatrist.

    Secondly, any suspected American or Israeli involvement is highly unlikely too, as the risk of totally dissociating from Europe through such a terrorist act on its people won't be taken by either of these two countries. This is extremely unlikely.

    Why do people here involve in such cheap thinking? Because of intellectual bankruptcy, fear of facing the reality and thus creating a false reality, projecting your own mentality on others.

    Just look at the logic:

    If someone else besides Muslims is indicted, it is fair game.

    If Muslims are indicted, then it's a "false flag"!

    So Muslim can't commit terrorism? You should get by seeing the state of any Muslim country, and our own beloved Pakistan, to reject this thought.

    Now the serious thought on the matter is presented by bsobaid. An extremist, ultra right-wing organization could have been involved.

    Again, I am not naive. Don't be naive yourself. The conspiracy theories are worthless, while official version does tell you something from which you can extract some information. No way, the investigation of entire departments can be rejected for a conspiracy nutcase.

    Again, western countries are not banana republics like Sadam's Iraq where you can see such things.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 7:46 #
  23. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    Then tell me why has Ghulam Nabi been arrested? The official version is that he is on ISI's payroll and is related to unfortunate activities since 20 odd years. This is the official explanation from the "infallible" democratic system you are referring. Yet everyone knows that he is a man of peace. Did they find out 20 odd years activity all of sudden before a Clinton visit to India?He might be cleared some day, but the damage has been done to some extent. The system is not better than those who stand behind it. If they don't act according to the spirit and norms then it's bound to fail. Need I refer to our "democratic" system with all kind of crooks?

    It is commonly believed that Mohammad Mossadegh was overthrown by instrumental "help" from CIA i.e. USA with all it's democracy. Have they ever carried out an investigation to unearth the truth everybody knows but the democratically elected government doesn't "believe" in?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

    These are just two examples to show the "truthfulness" of the democratic system.

    I have told you several times that it is not every time there is a false flag, but every time you read news one has to think and not swallow everything from official quarters!

    So it is you who he is just not only naive but VERY naive and CHEAP THINKING!!!

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:10 #
  24. The Oslo "Jihadist Terrorist" Blame Game Begins
    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/22/2011 13:12 -0500

    The news of today's Norway bombing is still developing and already the Telegraph has started the blame game. The target? Why jihadists of course. And while there may be reason to assume this is the case, the fact that there are absolutely no known confirmed facts at this point allows us to be very grateful for the phenomenon of broad ethnic and racial stereotyping and profiling. Incidentally, according to preliminary reports, the description of the shooter at the Labor Party youth camp is 6 foot tall, and blond: last time we checked Libya didn't have an endogenous Aryan population.

    From The Telegraph:

    As of June 2011, there were still six F16 fighters from the Royal Norwegian Air Force operating in Libya, which is a possible motive for the attack. However, it is unlikely that Colonel Gadhafi has the ability to mobilise such an attack.

    Norway has deployed around 500 troops in Afghanistan, and three Norwegian newspapers (Aftenposten, Dagbladet and Magazinet) published the controversial Prophet Muhammad cartoons in 2005-2006, providing another possible motive.

    There is precedent for jihadist targeting of Norway, with public spaces, government offices and media targets most at risk.

    One possible culprit is the Pakistan-based core al-Qaeda group, which has previously shown interest in attacking Norway. In July 2010, three Norwegian residents, one of whom had received explosives training with al-Qaeda in Pakistan, were arrested on suspicion of plotting attacks against unspecified targets. One of them had attempted to construct the same hydrogen peroxide-based explosives as used in the 2009 al-Qaeda bomb plot against the New York subway and the 7/7 bombings in London.

    Nevertheless, Norway is not a priority country for jihadists, and any al-Qaeda targeting of Norway would probably be opportunistic, based on the fact that they had happened to recruit a Norwegian national. We also assess that any plans for spectacular attacks in Western Europe would probably have been altered or put on hold following bin Laden's death, pending internal security reviews. A further possibility, therefore, is that the attack was led by Norwegian jihadist sympathisers acting on their own initiative, possibly after receiving basic training from jihadist groups overseas.

    The profiling continues:

    This pattern was seen in Stockholm in December 2010, when Swedish citizen
    Taimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly blew himself up in a busy shopping street. He
    had visited Iraq for jihad, but appeared to have received minimal, if any,
    external training and guidance when planning the Stockholm attack. One
    possible training provider would be Somalia's al-Shabab, which maintains
    fundraising networks among Norway's Somali community and has proven
    attractive as a destination for Swedish and Danish jihadist sympathisers,
    though it has not so far shown interest in deploying its foreign fighters
    back home to conduct attacks.

    Of course, the most probably explanation: that this is merely a domestic operation with no "jihadists" at all, is presented last. Because bond, blue eyed terrorists don't really sell page views.

    Hours later there was an summer camp youth conference of the ruling Labour
    Party, which is being attended by current Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg.
    The conference is taking place on the island of Utøya. The man apparently
    infiltrated the conference on the pretence that he had been sent by the
    police as a security measure in the wake of the Oslo explosions. As such, it
    is likely he was ethnically Norwegian. This could indicate the involvement
    of a far-right group rather than an Islamist group, though it is also the
    case that the Labour Party would be a favourable target for Islamist groups
    due to its role in authorising Norwegian military deployments in Afghanistan.

    So much for the speculation. How about next time the "punditry" at least waits to get its fact straight before starting out on yet another senseless stereotypical crusade which will certainly make it far more likely that just this stereotype is precisely what is behind the next attack.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/oslo-jihadist-terrorist-blame-game-begins?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedge+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero%29

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:11 #
  25. Just_one

    @Scan,

    Why you have an habit of a clean another people's sh!t? They can defend themselves methink. Don't start this nonsense with me.

    You did not even made a post in this thread when I made my first and yet you are jumping up and down and saying I indulge in cheap thinking when I did not say anything to you? Behave.

    Stop being an advocate, and clean other people's cr*p. Have your own arguments if you have any.

    You are such a pain in the a@@, very annoying.

    Now as to your argument about Ghulam Nabi, how do you know exactly he is not absolutely connected to ISI?

    Secondly, you don't get what I am saying (yet feel right to have an argument with me to defend your favorite posters? - quite cheap of you) Ghulam Nabi relates to a matter of American foreign policy, its not a matter of American government killing their own people to get a political argument for war.

    Same is the case regarding your other reference to CIA's involvement in over throwing certain governments.

    You don't know a dang about what I am arguing on about, yet you involve yourself in argumetn with me. Don't do that when I have initiated no argument with you, or first learn what my thinking is before jump up and down and call my thinking cheap.

    "I have told you several times that it is not every time there is a false flag, but every time you read news one has to think and not swallow everything from official quarters!"

    You DON'T tell me anything. Sitting in the west and enjoying its fruits, while having an ache to discredit it. I don't need any advice from YOU.

    Okay? Get it?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:30 #
  26. Norway Horror: 80 Die in Camp Shooting, 7 in Blast

    OSLO, Norway (AP) — A Norwegian who dressed as a police officer to gun down summer campers killed at least 80 people at an island retreat, horrified police said early Saturday. It took investigators several hours to begin to realize the full scope of Friday's massacre, which followed an explosion in nearby Oslo that killed seven and that police say was set off by the same suspect.

    The mass shootings are among the worst in history. With the blast outside the prime minister's office, they formed the deadliest day of terror in Western Europe since the 2004 Madrid train bombings killed 191.

    Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg told reporters Satyrday that he had spent many summers on the island of Utoya, which was hosting a youth retreat for his party.

    Utoya is "my childhood paradise that yesterday was transformed into Hell," Stoltenberg said at a news conference in the capital.

    Police initially said about 10 were killed at the forested camp on the island, but some survivors said they thought the toll was much higher. Police director Oystein Maeland told reporters early Saturday they had discovered many more victims.

    "It's taken time to search the area. What we know now is that we can say that there are at least 80 killed at Utoya," Maeland said. "It goes without saying that this gives dimensions to this incident that are exceptional."

    Maeland said the death toll could rise even more. He said others were severely wounded, but police didn't know how many were hurt.

    A suspect in the shootings and the Oslo explosion was arrested. Though police did not release his name, Norwegian national broadcaster NRK identified him as 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik and said police searched his Oslo apartment overnight. NRK and other Norwegian media posted pictures of the blond, blue-eyed Norwegian.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:31 #
  27. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    Read the first phrase of your post:

    "I find it abhorrent such mediocre and cheap thinking."

    "POSTED 20 MINUTES AGO ON 23 JUL 2011 8:10 "

    So, are yo lying too or didn't you know what you wrote?

    I am afraid you don't have a clue about how western governments and media operate!

    Get used to top receive the treatment as you give to others!

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:35 #
  28. Just_one

    @Scan,

    That was not directed at you. If you have such limited understanding, this is not my fault.

    Crying "false flag" on any terrorist act occurring in the west is indeed cheap thinking.

    I don't even think you involve yourself in such thinking, yet you taking arguments with me? That's why I said you are annoying.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:37 #
  29. expakistani

    look like finally we have terrorist whose name is not Ahmed or Khan or any link with Pakistan....
    well kind of good news but still sad part bcz so many died without knowing their fault.

    How i cam to conclusion that terrorist wasnt muslim ..is another story... lately all terrorist ( with muslim name) got caught quickly, may be bcz after doing damaged they dont use their head to hide or may be they dont try to hide them self.

    Gora tha aklmand hoga... kheen chup gia hoga without leaving trace.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:41 #
  30. Just_one

    Oh, I don't know how western governments and media operate.

    So western governments operate by killing their own people to get reasons for war while the media's job is to hide the government's involvement - tell that story to a kid.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:42 #
  31. @Just_One

    *Why you have an habit of a clean another people's sh!t?
    *You are such a pain in the a@@, very annoying.
    *I don't need any advice from YOU.

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/giant-blast-hits-government-buildings-in-oslo-norway#post-253628

    You certainly need advice from me; kindly avoid provocative slang, stop being abusive to fellow bloggers and observe respect for them.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:45 #
  32. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    You directed the post at me and thus I was entitled to understand it as I did.

    "Crying "false flag" on any terrorist act occurring in the west is indeed cheap thinking.

    I don't even think you involve yourself in such thinking, yet you taking arguments with me? That's why I said you are annoying."

    I don't mind I am annoying you as long as I believe I am on the right track.

    This is public forum where ideas/visions, incidents etc. are watched, read and debated and thus it is legitimate to discuss what might be behind different incidents/issues.

    I have already made it clear that I am not a person who swallows anything from anybody - be it a person from the one or the other camp. I look at the fact, proofs and arguments and never will I always swallow official explanations. On this point I am quite on the opposite side of you. You take official explanations for granted as being the (full) truth. I don't and I especially don't swallow explanations about actions/criminal acts against the third world (not only the Muslim world- get it?). There are numerous under cover and dirty acts against the third world. Don't ask the Muslims, but ask f.ex. the South Americans how they have been humiliated by repeated crimes by the Americans. Have they officially been unearthed? Have the culprits been punished? Remember the dirty actions have mostly been carried out by the consent of the sitting American government through the dirty tactics of CIA. So ONCE AGAIN. I don't swallow official explanations!!!

    Btw: What is your take on the Mossadegh incident? Do you believe in the official American version.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 8:53 #
  33. Pakistan Will Resist American Attempt To Link It To Norway Carnage

    The Oslo terror attacks come as boon to lobbies in Washington that want to continue the Afghan war. In July 2010, CIA is suspected of having tried to blow up Chinese targets in Oslo. CIA station office in Germany planned the attacks and recruited Chinese Muslims, along with German, Norwegian and American citizens of Iraqi and Afghan origin. The plan failed because of Norwegian counter-terror measures.

    ISLAMABAD, Pakistan—Pakistan will resist expected attempts by the United States to link the country to terrorist attacks in Norway’s capital a few hours ago.

    Washington is working closely with Indian intelligence to target Pakistani interests worldwide. This is retaliation against Pakistan’s refusal to act as an American satellite.

    The covert US-Indian close cooperation against Pakistan that began in Afghanistan in 2002 has now come to the surface. This confirms Pakistani suspicions, and mounting evidence, that the US has played a double game against its supposed ally since the start of the Afghan occupation.

    The CIA has been especially active in the last few weeks in engineering a media campaign against Islamabad.

    The American propaganda is expected to gradually pick up pace after the Norway carnage, in an attempt to link the sophisticated attacks to either pro-Kashmir groups in Pakistan or to a terror group called TTP, [a.k.a. Pakistani Taliban]. This group has killed more than thirty thousand Pakistani civilians and soldiers and is suspected of receiving aid from rogue CIA elements in Afghanistan.
    The pro-war American lobbies are also expected to use the Norway attacks to revive the ‘al-Qaeda-in-Pakistan’ scarecrow.

    The attacks in Norway come as bonus for the pro-war lobby in the US capital. Influential lobbies in Washington DC interested in aborting US government plans to end the Afghan war will try to use the terrorist attacks to prolong US military presence in Afghanistan and urge NATO countries to do the same.

    Today Afghanistan is CIA’s largest base of operations outside the United States. The agency is widely known to have revived Afghan opium trade to finance its covert operations in the region against Pakistan, China and Russia.

    LINK TO AL-QAEDA & PRO-KASHMIR GROUPS
    Some leaked US sources in the media will link Norway terror to the alleged al-Qaeda presence in Pakistan.
    This assessment will be politically motivated and deeply flawed from the intelligence perspective. Evidence on the ground in Pakistan’s border regions with US-controlled Afghanistan shows that al-Qaeda has been all but decimated. There are less than 100 active al-Qaeda members at best. Other Pakistani intelligence figures put the number at less than 150. Whatever the figure, the al-Qaeda remnants are scattered, weak and with no financial backing after the death of OBL in May. These few former al-Qaeda activists cannot have the means to launch any attacks of consequence outside the region.

    American sources will also try to link Norway terror to pro-Kashmir freedom groups that exist in Pakistan and the region since the start of Indian occupation of Kashmir in 1948.

    [The Indian and American intelligence agencies are using the media to promote a new term, the ‘Punjabi Taliban’, to describe the pro-Kashmir groups that are based in parts of Pakistan adjoining Indian-occupied Kashmir. Those parts of Pakistan happen to be in its Punjab province. The Americans and Indians are hoping to exploit Pakistan’s linguistic diversity by referring to ‘Punjabi’ Taliban. The word ‘Taliban’ itself is a misnomer is also an attempt at portraying the pro-Kashmir groups as some kind of a reincarnation of the Taliban in Afghanistan. There is no Talibanization phenomenon in Pakistani regions close to Kashmir.]

    CIA’S ROLE IN EUROPE
    The CIA is largely opposed to an end to the US war in Afghanistan. In July 2010, the CIA tried to bomb Chinese targets in the Norwegian capital by recruiting Chinese Muslims. CIA’s station office in Germany runs a front group of Chinese Muslims focused on creating disturbances in western China.

    The agency’s Oslo plot also included recruiting German, Norwegian and US citizens of Iraqi and Afghan origin. The objective was to blame the planned attacks on al-Qaeda in Pakistan and generate support for US plans to move the war from Afghanistan into Pakistan.

    The plan did not work out because of European countermeasures but the incident refocused attention on CIA operations in Europe to secure European support for American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Pakistan has another weapon in its arsenal to use against future American accusations of links to terror in Europe.

    Almost all of the alleged terror plots in Europe supposedly uncovered by American, British and German intelligence agencies over the past couple of years involved European citizens of native and other origins who somehow dodged security at American and European airports and easily found their way through Afghanistan to the militant-infested border with Pakistan.

    US government and military have been swift to ignore their intelligence failures, or possible complicity, and lay the blame at Pakistan’s doorstep.

    http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/2011/07/22/pakistan-will-resist-american-attempt-to-link-it-to-norway-carnage/

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 9:06 #
  34. ajhons

    definitly a local job.That Neo Nazi fector, we are not considering, should be one of the major suspect.This is true that small extremist group within europe are far more in numbers then islamic groups.Yes they are small groups but the frustration among the youth or rather aimless youth is resulting in the creation of these groups.Scandinavian never thought about such scale of attacks but they do have concern about the nazi and other groups who were slowly being influnced by the global thought of being captive of jew dominance within their politicale leadership one way or the other.Then there are those who are converting to islam and if fall pray to some idelaist can easily be turned into killing machines.But whatever the case it seems tobe local connection.Thinking about some saudi or egyptian or chechen or pakistani who trained in waziristan did the fire work, I think, may be Im wronge,pretty hard to digest

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 9:12 #
  35. Excellent piece this one, Mirza Sahib, most comprehensive. Now about Norway, I liked expakistani's comment above, most to the point and witty as well. Only one more thing to add: if attempts are made to link right-wing extremists and Muslims, we'll know where we are heading.

    Scandinavian, thank you for bringing SouthAm into the debate. They've had a bit of peace and quiet while we died in our thousands, one million alone in Iraq in recent times. But the horrors whose origin you and I seem to know have multiplied in Mexico, Central America, at least. They must all be cursing their geographical proximity.

    No, ajhons, you're spot on.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 9:17 #
  36. Aktar Begum

    It is very strange that a blond,blue-eyed suspect has been arrested? This smells of a good cover-up job, false flags etc.
    Who will benefit from this heinous act?

    @ Scan: it's all a question of the principle of proportion. The USA is not that powerful as we imagine it to be as the example of Cuba proves. They tried to get rid of Fidel Castro but failed miserably. But to attribute 100% power to any state, even the most powerful one, is not being realistic as the example of Fidel Castro demonstrates.

    @ Just_one how brave of you to get involved in such discussions about "false flags", democracy etc. When opinions are projections of one's own psyche, they cannot be changed. Every event is explained in the same stereotypical way - the final aim is to cause more division between human-beings of different religions, nations by igniting hatred. If such an ideology of hatred and mistrust is the basis of our view of the world, then we as humanity are done for.
    Good luck and if I were you , I wouldn't waste time and emotion trying to convince the unconvincables!

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 9:37 #
  37. The latest bits and pieces emerging. The Norwegian in question seems to be Far Right, Anti-Islam, Christian Nationalist as per gleanings from his Facebook page. Does it bother anyone that one man alone could have shot down 87 (latest figures, apparently) all by himself and within the space of just 30 minutes? There's more to all this than meets the eye.

    Begum Aktar, not again your story of sweetness and light. Just mention the wars for once, I beg of you. Any sweetness and light you see in them? No idealogy of "hatred and mistrust" you and your group gave noted in them? Do give us a clue how you manage. We'd love to follow suit.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 9:52 #
  38. Home-grown terrorist blamed in Norway attacks

    A police official said the 32-year-old ethnic Norwegian suspect arrested at the camp on Utoya island appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like that this is not linked to any international terrorist organizations at all."

    Webmaster's Commentary:
    So every corporate media outlet that screamed "Muslim" was LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING to you!

    WRH

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 9:56 #
  39. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    "You DON'T tell me anything. Sitting in the west and enjoying its fruits, while having an ache to discredit it. I don't need any advice from YOU."

    OK, Mr. "Know-all" ;)

    Re. sitting in the West:

    What the heck my opinion has to do with where I sit apart from I might have inside knowledge about those I sit among?

    Do you know what IK expects from us who "sit in the West"?

    Do you know that he admires the achievement of the expats once the right environment is provided?

    Do you know ANYTHING about my back ground?

    - My education and where I got it
    - How I came to the West . willingly or unwillingly?

    As far as I remember IK wants us to play a pivotal role in the development and industrialization of Pakistan. Generally he is ALL PRAISE for expats since they are the people who WILLINGLY pay significant amount of money to run his noble campaign - both politically and socially.

    Shall I consider you being on the opposite of IK's stance about expats since you have indulged in personal attacks? Not even IK's CORRUPT opposition talks like that about expats.

    And how you can conclude that I "discredit" the western governments more than the local inhabitants? I bet I am as critical about the governments as many other people who has researched a little bit about how the handle their (foreign) affairs.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 10:01 #
  40. Scandinavian

    @MG sb.,

    "Webmaster's Commentary:
    So every corporate media outlet that screamed "Muslim" was LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING to you!

    WRH"

    They started screaming as soon as the news got out. I heard an "expert" on CNN linking the terror attacks to Waziristan, Pakistan. Libya has also been mentioned and off course the ever green and elusive and maybe non'existing Al-Qaeda is always the usual suspect when everything else fails ;)

    This time it was a WHITE ultra-nationalist christian man who committed the heinous crime. In a way I still believe the "experts" have harmed the Muslims by just naming them as the usual suspects.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 10:05 #
  41. Aktar Begum

    Dear MG,
    what are you aiming at? I have followed the annoncements in the western media very closely and they were remained neutral and refrained from jumping to conclusions and you seem to be doing constantly. What is this rubbish about the West lying, lying,lying...
    You are doing a good job as an agitator. Do do think that the people in Pakistan are illerate and will believe any story to dish to them, not having access to the western media to built up their own. Yor are playing a very dirty game: doing a good job as an agitator.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 10:15 #
  42. iamsowise

    here is another possible reason of this attack.

    There are serious differences among Norwegian religious sects, Extreme form of Christianity Evangelical is a state religion which is supported by the US. Adventists and other sects oppose the state church system.

    As the Norwegian state since the 1970s has become quite rich, the system has benefited the church and the religious believers, and as a result the resistance against the state church system has generally been quite weak from the part of the religious believers. Even atheists and other secularists have generally been quite indifferent with regard to the state church system. The main exceptions to this state of affair have been the two Norwegian organizations of secularists, Human-Etisk Forbund (HEF, Human-Ethical Society, founded 1956) and Det Norske Hedningsamfunn (Norwegian Pagan Society, founded 1974).
    Both organizations have been and are strongly opposed to the state church system.
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/finngeir_hiorth/norway.html

    Norwegian ambassador, Paulsen meet at church headquarters
    Of the 4.8 million people living in Norway, nearly 80 percent belong to the Church of Norway. There are about 4,600 Adventists in Norway.
    http://news.adventist.org/2010/05/norwegian-ambassador.html

    Norway Will End Evangelical Lutheran Church As State Religion
    "The Evangelical-Lutheran religion shall remain the official religion of the State. The inhabitants professing it are bound to bring up their children in the same.
    "The basic values of our nation shall be our Christian and humanistic heritage." However elsewhere in the Constitution the Norwegian Lutheran Church will be designated as a "folk church", and the king will still be required to be a member of the Evangelical Lutheran faith.
    http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2008/04/norway-will-end-evangelical-lutheran.html

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 10:18 #
  43. Scandinavian

    @Aktar Begum

    Shouldn't have been AkHtar Begum?

    This contradicts your claim.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 10:26 #
  44. What media are you talking about exactly, B.A.? The Zionist media? Are we to believe anything they say? Have you already forgotten what has been happening with the Rupert Murdoch media empire. He was the most powerful of them all and the most widespread. But he is only one among many others.

    What do you mean about west media? Do you think I've not quoted from a west blog? Do you think I haven't learnt my lessons from the west dissident blogs? Ah, then you know nothing at all. As for who's illiterate and who not, that I shall refuse to decide. An agitator am I because I refuse to allow anyone to accuse the Muslims without trying to take a stand myself over the matter? Ten years of this nonsense we've lived with already. Muslims have died in more countries than I can count. Our countries have been flooded with depleted uranium and the like and you want us to sit back and exchange pointless comments as though we were at a polite tea party. Look, BA, a little more and we could be accusing You and others like you of playing the card of the enemy. But, forget it. It's nothing new. Such tactics are not worth it. Anyone worth his or her salt even in Pakistan knows by now the truth of what the west dissidents have spent years trying to drum into our heads.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 10:27 #
  45. Thanks Scandi and many thanks to iamsowise as well and, not forgetting bsobaid, who turned out to be the most inutitive of us all.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 10:34 #
  46. Just_one

    @Scan,

    I want a true burning patriot to be in Pakistan. That's it; no sane person will take issues with it and I want to talk no more on this issue.

    I have noted lately that you do swallow the whole thing from the sectors you affiliate with, or are extremely apologetic about them.

    I have said, you don't have to act as a lawyer. If you have the right to misunderstood my post and hurl accusations at me, then I have the right to respond in kind.

    Don't attribute to me what I do not hold. That is offensive. I said I give more importance to the official version, derived form different investigation agencies - note, this is in context of countries with independent institutions, which are mostly democratic (not to say democracies are "infallible"), a banana republic investigation organizations will rather be given less importance - compared to some crappy conspiracy theory websites on the internet. It doesn't mean I accept whatever officially told to me by any government.

    You have no idea of my opinions on a range of issues of which I have related only on a handful of matters. I have no argument with you and I don't want to comment on any event which is unrelated to this thread as moderator has warned me recently of this misdemeanor.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 11:50 #
  47. Just_one

    "Webmaster's Commentary:
    So every corporate media outlet that screamed "Muslim" was LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING, LYING to you!"

    Right. What about every person who was screaming "false flag"? They were not only lying, but extremely stupid.

    For suspecting Al Quida hand out of blue is still understandable (Madrid bombing was conducted by Al Qaida, after all) compared to insulting people's intelligence by paddling conspiracy theories.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 11:54 #
  48. Aktar Begum

    @Scan: I have been following the news on the BBC, and many other european media - and no such allegations were made there as on CNN. I cannot post yesterday's BBC news because of practical reasons not knowing how to go about it, but please if you have an open mind, do go and check my claims.

    @MG, it is deplorabe and words cannot express how sad it that innocent people are being killed all over the world due to extremism. Any human life lost is a tragedy!
    Your reaction to almost every such event is to pour oil into the fire like an agent agitator. And you keep repeating the same stereotype arguments non-stop: conspiracy, the zionist Media,the West and America are the culprits. Reality is much more complex than the simple, reductionistic explanations you offer! You are playing off one party against the other.

    I abhor all that Rupert Murdoch represents and am relieved that his criminal activities have been unmasked. We need a free press all over the world and people who have common sense, educated or not, ready to use their own brains to check on the nonsense being told to them. Can you differentiate between serious european media and the cheap sensation seeking Media? Why do you put serious jounalists into the same pot with Murdoch?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 12:09 #
  49. Just_one

    @AB,

    Thank you.

    I simply want people to see inward. When Muslims were superpower, they also invaded and pillaged other countries. So now that America is the superpower, it has done the same, to not only Muslim countries, but more so to countries like Latin American - who are not Muslims. This means American foreign policy does not have anything to do with any supposed war on Islam, but with pursuing its interests as it sees it.

    What should we do? The same thing the west did when it faced a superpower - the Muslims. Strengthen ourselves internally, economically and technologically. This begins with giving our people rights and empowering them.

    The solution doesn't lie in engaging in denial and inhabiting a world full of wishful thinking, conspiracy theories and false hopes. We should realize that the west is much more powerful, stronger, and better for human beings to inhabit (shown by mass migration from Muslim countries to west) than us, for they have given their people's rights, which our people lack (not that they are ideal, nothing is). No diseased anti-western mentality will lead us anywhere.

    India was also colonized with us, now it is moving forward and is soon to join the global powers. It didn't started wallowing in the past and crying about resurrecting old Hindu system of governance, replacing democracy. Japan is another example, so is China.

    The conspiracy ridden mentality stems from a defeatist mentality, a mentality that has embraced defeat as victory. If you define shameless defeat as victory, then be sure to remain forever defeated. So for this kind, the plight of Afghanistan is something to be proud of, knowing that it has been hell in Afghanistan for the last three decades and so, just because two superpowers supposedly weakened themselves after decades of pounding the poor nation.

    No longer victory is conquering other nations, defending your own borders and government, or setting examples on fronts such as scientific progress, technological and cultural developments, but in simply staying alive, whether in caves, resisting, whether through bombing women and children in market places.

    {Of course, this mentality is not specific to Muslim militants, Tamil militants showed similar tendencies and dozens other have done the same. But we should not see this mentality as part of a wining mindset.}

    This is the defeatist mentality among Muslims we have to defeat intellectually.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 12:17 #
  50. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    Just as expected you had no answers only rigidness.

    You totally failed to give any appropriate answer including on your ridiculous and repeated "holy" claims about being in Pakistan to do good for Pakistan!

    Btw: You are still wrong when you say that we don't look inwards. What the heck we are doing when we criticize our own leadership day in and day out?

    @AB

    I just gave you one example to show you that you were not right.

    Btw I consider BBC a little better than CNN, Fox News etc., but when the tune suits UK/West then they can also jump on the wagon. I am not saying that they always do that. Some times they are even forced to be on the "right" side. Remember their quarrel with the "democratic" Jewish state?

    My prediction is if at all you have clean intentions then both of you will learn the facts the hard way!

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 12:40 #
  51. Look, I'm more and more certain that the two of you above are the one and same person. Also, neither of you make any sense to me and both your persona are too fond of the personal insult to make exchanges with you henceforth of any interest whatsoever. Did you learn how to blog at some good PR course?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 13:11 #
  52. Aktar Begum

    @Scan: Then you agree we were speaking about different media.
    Explain please what do you mean exactly by "both of you will learn the facts the hard way!"

    @Just_one - The distortion and the pointblank denial of reality seem to be widespread overhere - I agree with you that America is first and foremost pursuing its own self-interests and doesn't give a hoot about Pakistan. Constructing the myth of a war between America/the West and the Muslims is very dangerous thing because it could lead to sth. like that. Why do we lack introspection concerning our own motives? shouldn't we take into account that we are also led by our own self-interests? Just blind identification is not enough and quite a childish reaction.
    Perhaps we are just_two overhere, which not only needs good nerves but a good portion of civilcourage too!

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 13:22 #
  53. For all politicised begums!

    .Constructing the myth of a war between America/the West and the Muslims is very dangerous thing because it could lead to sth.

    Leave Pakistan on its own free will, and stay confined within your borders. Dont extend your tentacles beyond your borders. Would be good for you and for the rest of the world.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 13:40 #
  54. hypocrite

    Leave Pakistan on its own free will, and stay confined within your borders. Dont extend your tentacles beyond your borders. Would be good for you and for the rest of the world.
    ____________________

    Mirza sahib

    I think this is one of the immediate solution tomany bad things that are happening in this beautiful world and then we can go into more depth to find more appropriate long term solutions to urges for the adventurism.

    I fully agree and would like to add only one thing and that this action shall be reciprocal and binding on all.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 14:11 #
  55. Sure brother, action should be reciprocal and binding to all concerned.
    Or else we should go for dissolution of the UNO, first for the Security Council. We should form our own UNO of Africa, South America, China and all the countries who are against captialism.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 14:17 #
  56. Bravo, exactly. The UN or, if one prefers, the Security Council, is yet another disguised wing of the capitalist west military complex. Anyway, all this will soon be bygones as the economic hegemony of the west unravels at speed. And new international institutions arise along the lines you descibe above.

    But now back to Norway and its multiple mysteries. Has anyone got any new insight there?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 15:16 #
  57. Scandinavian

    @S.E.Mirza

    That's spot on. We don't need western help and nor do we need their interference! I want them to keep their democracy as they want it and let us define our own way!

    @Ak(h)tar Begum

    Now you are trying to get out of your own statement.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 15:35 #
  58. Just_one

    @Scan,

    "Btw: You are still wrong when you say that we don't look inwards. What the heck we are doing when we criticize our own leadership day in and day out?"

    Who the heck referred to you? Chor ki dari mein tinka?

    Good on you if you look inwards, which, by the way, is not limited to criticizing your leadership, but yourself.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 15:48 #
  59. Scandinavian

    @Just_One

    You are not able to debate. Like on many other occasions you are off topic and not concerned about what other people try to communicate. I think you are an under age trying to act like a mature. It will take some more years for you to learn. Keep it up, buddy ;)

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 15:51 #
  60. Just_one

    @MG,

    You really have a spurious way of thinking as now you accused me of multi-nicking. This doesn't show great knowledge of good blogging as false accusations are insults. You have disprespected two bloggers.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jul 2011 15:53 #

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