R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
A million dollar question:
Had Pakistan NOT been created, what would have happened to India today?
Total population = 1.55 billion.
Muslims = 600 million
Dalits = 400 million
Hindus = 400 million
Christians, Sikhs and Others = 150 million
http://alamsha.sulekha.com/blog/post/2009/03/benefits-of-1947-indo-pak-partition.htm
to your million dollar question, here is my 1 ruppee answer...
all of the muslims united in India wud still be slaves to Hindus....in the light of hadees e rasooll...he said s.a.w, you muslims will have numbers as high as the scum of the ocean yet you will be dominated, sahaba astounded asked how come, we are so little in number in mecca yet so dominant,? Rasool answered by pointing towards his chest and heart...saying you hearts will be corrupted with the love of "cheap things" (duniya=cheap thing)...
so don't be so sure about numbers.....
Mulla!
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@Mulla Nafs e Zakkiya
Indians think that India would have become Pakistan. Do you think so?. Why?.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@Mulla Nafs e Zakkiya
"..hadees e rasooll...he said s.a.w, you muslims will have numbers as high as the scum of the ocean yet you will be dominated"..
Does it mean, Muslims are incapable of providing good governance for their subjects?.
usman1423
member
At the time Muslims claim to believe in the laws of Islam, they call for democracy,natinalism, liberties, the sovereignty of the people, socialism and other thoughts that entirely contradict the laws of Islam.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@usman1423
This is NOT the answer for the question and irrelevant. Looks like you don't want to tell the truth.
usman1423
member
we dont want division in us and dont want this status quo.
The Muslim-Domination-Phobia should be checked.
It is a lethal virus.
One should struggle and strive to bring a decent and tolerant human bieng out of body.
I agree with Mulla!
2ndly, the biggest problem among Muslims is lack of education. Some part of Muslim world still think that by learning religious (Islamic) education we are actually defending our faith which is untrue.
I am not against religious education but then we end up in creating a huge force of these Maddrassah educated "Talibaan" who are quite extremist in their views and belief. On the other hand, lack of education is causing us to vote for people on the basis of race, cast and even social standing.
The same lack of education makes us (this includes parey likey jahil who obtain their credentials by unfair means throughout their educational period) choose people like Zardari and Nawaz who has been unfaithful, dishonest with us (in case of Pakistan) and make us tolerate dictators like Saddam and live under the rule of dictatorship or royal slavery in case of Saudia.
You can not increase social and political awareness without education. Correct this fault and you will be able to form a govt with good governance and a decent and tolerant Islamic Society.
I will whole heartedly agree with emphasis on education when talking about nation-building.... however, a big BUT is coming here...
We already have an'educated' tabqa in Pakistan, or should I say always have had. By observing this group, it emmerges that some still cannot break from rishfat, safarish mentality. Along with that, a feudal mindset (upper-class rules, lower class must continue to be subservient) is still prevelant, despite education.
I always thought that it was education alone that would open a person's eyes to injustice, segregation, subaism and any other kind of 'ism', but this is not the case.
For this reason it is very important to educate the masses not only with worldly education, but also Islamic history Quran and Sunnah at each level. (Point to note here, the Taliban on both sides are de-railed due to the fact that they seem to know nothing of their own rich and varied history... which would explain their one track, blinkered view of the world).
I do believe that worldy education alone will not solve our problems (otherwise the West would be free of worldly problems). Moreover, becoming a hafiz and knowing how to perform Islamic rituals will not arm Muslims - Pakistanis - with what is needed to become a strong, independent, capable and prosperous nation.
Education of the mind is a must for Pakistanis.... side by side to this, education of the soul is imperative for the educated to DO something worthwhile with that education.
Yes, We need both education so we can see both side of the coin.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
I am sorry to say that i have posted a simple question. Nobody wants to answer my question but instead talk about education and blah, blah. Why such hypocricy?.
Just tell me, "Had Pakistan NOT been created, what would have happened to India today?".
Kindly forward this question to your PM, President and other leaders.
NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IFs R.A.K!!
NOW PAKISTAN IS CREATED.... WHAT'S INDIA GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?..... GET OVER IT. STOP BEING PETRIFIED BY A TINY LAND MASS OF MUSLIMS, STOP BEING THE ISRAEL OF S.E.ASIA AND GET ON WITH SORTING OUT ITS OWN DOMESTIC PROBLEMS... CAN INDIA DO THIS R.A.K?
BTW, what is hypocritical about talking about education?
Both the Indians and Pakistanis are desperately in need of it.
Take the hint and talk about another topic if people are not interested in this one.
Its an idiotic Question!
I will give u a better alternate question!
What if India is divided into further 7 independent Countries? Send this Question to your president,PM, MP's and Bal takrey!
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@Oriel
"Take the hint and talk about another topic..."
Why. We would like to close our eyes and avoid inconvenient truths. Indians have answered me this question by boldly saying "India would have become Pakistan". I truly admire their guts.
I have posted articles on peace, confederation of the subcontinent etc. Many people jumped and told me, "you Indian, just cleanup your house, junglee Muslim, blah blah".
Eventhough, i am an Indian Muslim, i have a right to demand this answer from Pakistan because in a way i belong to both the nations and both the people. Yes. I am the only Indian who could probably make this statement boldly in an open forum. If you like, you can read my story here:
http://alamsha.sulekha.com/blog/post/2009/03/where-is-my-constitution-i-have-to-bear-my-own.htm
http://x.pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic.php?id=3329
My personal story published in the link above has got nothing to do with Pakistan. It is India's problem and i will NOT giveup untill i get an answer officially, good or bad.
Kindly understand that my intention is NOT to embarass the lovely people of Pakistan. I want to embarass your corrupt leaders(few are honest but powerless). They have NOT only hurt your dreams but have hurt mine also. Why a great nation which is self sufficient and strong in all respects is in turmoil ?. What happened to the dream of Mr.Jinnah and the sacrifice of millions of Pakistanis, who built this nation from scratch?.
I think, if you can honestly answer this question, you will identify the real problem. You are discussing on so many other topics as a true patriotic Pakistani. All are meaningless and will never help you to hit the nail on it's head.
RAK... I have noticed your self promotion quite often! lol
keep it up ;-)
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@Oriel, @KHAN_Sahib
"Surely the issues are what HAPPENED in the past and as result what are we going to do in the FUTURE.."
You have posted this reply at
http://x.pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic.php?id=3741
but i will answer here, because this is more important.
For those who refuse to learn from the history, the history will repeat itself. Future has already crossed us. We are still stuck in 1947 and have NOT moved even an inch because we refuse to see 1947 boldly.
Future is meaningless for us. What has NOT happened in the past 60 years, will never happen in the next 60 years if we don't see the truth in front of us. There is nothing to look forward in the future in India and Pakistan. Every day, we wakeup and go to bed with mutual suspicion and hatred. We have only past to discuss and no future for us. We are tied together but will never see this invisible rope. Either we will sink together or have to reach the shore together.
Our leaders are still subservient and loyal to our colonial masters. Together, we need to disengage these guys because we only put them where they are now. May sound like a wishful thinking but no other option.
I disagree with you here. Future is Bright cuz we have decided to learn from our past! In our recent political history, our nation was united to achieve restoration of CJ and Pakistan army facilitated this process by not interfering in that movement but become a party for negotiation. (Though I am not sure about Indians if they have learned any lessons so far...)
This is 21st century and u can't make people your slaves anymore. Now let me put a very straight forward Question to you. Don't you think that "kashmiris have the right to independence" and Indian army should stop killing innocent kashmiris and withdraw their forces and conduct fair election under United nation?
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"I have noticed your self promotion quite often...".
What self promotion in speaking out what i go through ?. You sound as though i am asking for your favour. Don't presume that you are in such a position where others ask for your favour. Before you LOL on me, better come out of your cocoon and see the entire world around you which LOLs on you.
Also, you are very generous on throwing words like idiot, stupid, break the leg etc. Can i expect a similar response now?.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@@KHAN_Sahib
"Don't you think that "kashmiris have the right to independence" ...".
Yes. A solution should be found for this tragedy peacefully ASAP.
Now, i have answered your question. Can you answer mine?.
I am glad that u read my responses with a microscope (Also, you are very generous on throwing words like idiot, stupid, break the leg etc.)
Do u suffer from some kind of mental disease? The stuff u come out with and then when you place the links to your own blogs/pages just doesnt make any sense but an imatuer blogger.
Don't worry about people LOLs for me cuz on this board, its u who is a laughing stalk. Why are u so concern about Pakistan? Why don't you guys sort out ur country first... And let me give u a "NEWS" PAKISTAN HAS BEEN CREATED ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW DEAL WITH THIS FACT PLEASE!
And I didn't use the words you mentioned earlier! Happy!
;-)
shikra
Blocked
Even the founder of Pakistan, realized and admitted, a few months before his death, that the division of India and the creation of Pakistan was the biggest mistake, he ever supported.
The Two Nation Theory was a hoax.
Did he whisper in your ear Shikra?
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@shikra
....creation of Pakistan was the biggest mistake, he ever supported. The Two Nation Theory was a hoax...".
Great. If that's true, can you please give your honest reply for my question?.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"Do u suffer from some kind of mental disease?....And I didn't use the words you mentioned earlier! Happy!"
Yes. You used a new one. A lot of people are following this discussion and they can judge. If you think that you are man with sound mental faculties, why can't you read my question once again and give an answer in your own style?.
Muslims would have been treated like a 2nd degree citizens just the same way the indian govt is treating Kashmiris now.
BUT i have to say, Its not a MILLION DOLLER Question!
shikra
Blocked
He told this truth to Dr. Col. Elahi Bux and the nurse, who were taking his care in Quetta.
This news was killed by the champions of Two Nation Theory, who had vested interest in the creation of Pakistan.
The ground reality and 60 years historical Circumstantial evidence also prove and indicate that the creation of Pakistan was a blunder.
Pakistan would survive like a lame horse, which pulls the cart without wheels.
Final Conclusion.
Perhaps A Yen ;)
what about killing of Lyaqat ali khan? Do u have any link/supportive evidence of what you just posted cuz I have heard that too but no reliable source!
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
Total population = 1.55 billion.
Muslims = 600 million
Dalits = 400 million
Hindus = 400 million
Christians, Sikhs and Others = 150 million
Muslims are majority. Still, you think Hindus will win the elections and rule you in a democracy?. Do you understand the population breakdown i have given above?. Do you know real politics?.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"what about killing of Lyaqat ali khan..".
Sorry, absolutely no idea but i think CIA can help you on this.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@@shikra
"...creation of Pakistan was a blunder".
This you have told before. My question is "had it not been created, what miracle would have happened to united India ?"
lYAQAT ALI KHAN Q was not for you!
Democracy? U call this Democracy where u killed the pre dominant muslim population in kashmir???? I think you need to learn your common sense before teaching other about politics.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"U call this Democracy where u killed the pre dominant muslim population in kashmir????".
I have my serious doubts on your understanding skills. Where is the question of Kashmir occupation in undivided India ?. Don't get emotional and think with a cool head.
I have serious doubts about ur IQ!
If you can't give Kashmiris their rites now then think about retrospectively, how can I expect them to give all muslims their rites! Don't stress your little mind and get some grip by understanding others view point too!
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"...how can I expect them to give all muslims their rites!".
I really feel sorry for you. You have become so much brain washed by 60 years of AAA, you have lost your ability to think independently. Democracy means will of the majority. Who ever gains majority, they will rule even if it is 51% vs 49%. In an undivided India, do some simple maths and tell me which combination will capture the power?.
If you are a ruler, you have to give rights to others and not the other way round. Now, don't ask me "how can we believe that Hindus will give us the rights to give them the rights ?".
So, tell me now what have you understood from this discussion ?.
That u are an IDIOT! U are too blind to see the plight of kashmiris! So no point of wasting time with you..
Enjoy ur night oe day where ever u are!
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"That u are an IDIOT!".
Tell this every day in front of your mirror.
BTW, there was no Kashmiri plight before partition but i know that you have lost your capacity to think.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
For the benefit of other readers of this topic, let me write some points, which may help others.
1. The recent Q&A interview by Mr.Musharraf at the India Today enclave was a masterpiece in the hsitory of India-Pakistan since 1947. Nothing can be better than this.
2. Kindly visit these links for more readings to understand about Dalits and their great leader Dr.B.R.Ambedkar.
http://www.ambedkar.org/
http://www.ceeby.com/people/ambedkar.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._R._Ambedkar
http://x.pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic.php?id=3515
3. Undivided India was a threat for whom ?. Who wanted partition ?. Mr.Nehru or Mr.Jinnah?.
4. Why Mr.Jinnah said that partition was a mistake (as some people claim). Had it NOT happened, what would have happened today?.
I think u should learn another line now! Grow Up! U been using the same line every now n then!
And If u want, I can remind u every day that "YOU ARE AN IDIOT" every day :)
netengr
blocked
Muslims Population would be more then Half Billion ,more then the arab world
@R.A.K:
You think we should have had an undivided India.
Ok. So it was a mistake on Jinnah's part to call and fight for a Muslim State. Ok. So what?
We have a Pakistan, a Bangladesh, an India right now. As Pakistanis we are trying to look at how we can improve the problems in Pakistan as it exists today.
That you are a lover of both is great. Although understand that the world, and as a result S.E.Asian politics, is based on a theory called 'Realism' (its in all the books of international politics post-Cold War). Most of the bloggers here are realists according to the books.... as well as much more according to Islam, other religion etc.
Its obvious you are an idealist (another theory in the books)... nothing wrong with that, but, in this forum we're looking at domestic issues of Pak and ways to solve them [at least theoretically anyway].
All in all, it is not in the interests of those on this forum to talk about "What if" this had happened and "What if" that had happened.
Perhaps set up another forum for this.
I hope that eases your frustration somewhat.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"And If u want, I can remind u every day that "YOU ARE AN IDIOT"
I have read your views and replies in this forum. You and Mulla Nafs e Zakkiya think alike and scream alike. Are you 2 sides of the same coin?.
Just by throwing bad words, you are simply boiling your blood and you won't achieve anything. Do you think, others will get scared of you ?. You can win or loose in a debate but learn to handle it with dignity. Just don't scream that Pakistan needs education, education. You need to set yourself as a good example to youngsters and teach them educated behaviour and civility. Otherwise, they will imitate you and create a bad impression about your own people. Better learn, how to agree to disagree.
It's NOT that you are the only one carrying the entire weight of Pakistan on your shoulders. Many great people have become very humble and they have changed their style. Don't think, all Indians are waiting to eat you alive and get into your kneejerk mode. A lot of well wishers are working tirelessly to bring peace and prosperity for the subcontinent.
Also, avoid bringing Islam (like, Mulla Nafs e Zakkiya) into discussions. You will loose. Keep it inside four walls and don't hang it around your neck. This is the power of being an Indian Muslim. Not a single Mullah can open his mouth and give any fatwa to us. We will give him 10 counter fatwas and ultimately he will start hitting on his own head. Try to achieve this in your country, first. Learn some good things from Indians also. There is a reason, why entire world respects India.
Finally, read my answers in this topic once again without any preconceived notions, you will get the real message.
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@Oriel
"You think we should have had an undivided India...".
No. Nobody regrets for that and everyone agrees that Partition is inevitable.
The question is, everyone blames Mr.Jinnah for partition. If you look at the problems faced by Pakistan today, had partition not happened, what would have happened to undivided India?.
You are a typical Indian! And let me tell u.. I HATE them!
You are so upset with my plea of EDUCATION! I can understand that! Why dont u stop ur crap here and concentrate on your own country. We can deal with people like you so don't worry about us.
And I don't want to know your way of "Islam" I am a Proud Muslim and a Pakistani and like it or not! We will have Muslim written on our forhead and not hanging from our neck!
I don't think that any indian can eat any pakistani cuz u guys dont eat meat! And we don't drink **** like u guys do! So cut it out and we don't need to learn ur ways of living from you. (I am Glad that Mulla steps on ur tail but mind u I will step on ur neck) ;-)
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@KHAN_Sahib
"(I am Glad that Mulla steps on ur tail but mind u I will step on ur neck)"
If Obama reads this, what will he think about your people?. You can throw words, but difficult to take it back. Beacause of few people, entire world thinks that Pakistanis are very impolite and bad people. There is no difference between you and Varun Gandhi.
I would like to quote the great example shown by our Prophet (PBUH) when it comes to tolerance and patience.
There was a old lady who use to throw rubbish on Prophet (PBUH) whenever he went past her home. One day, she did not throw rubbish and Prophet (PBUH) was surprised and found that she was ill. He went inside her house and enquired if he could be of any help for her. He offered kind words and helped her with whatever was possible. The old lady cried and became a great admirer of Prophet (PBUH).
A true Muslim will never get angry. Even in war front, he will keep his cool.
God bless and peace be upon you.
U mean OBAMA BIN LADEN?
OR OSAMA BIN BARAK HUSSAIN OBAMA?
R.Alamsha Karnan
Member
@Oriel
"Perhaps set up another forum for this. I hope that eases your frustration somewhat".
How can you say that this forum is not meant for this topic?. I don't think this is Pakistani only or a family member's forum.
Finally, if you don't interact and listen to other's viewpoints, how will you come to know what others think or want to tell about Pakistan?. Do you think that Pakistan is beyond any criticism?. The purpose of open forum is freedom to express views about each other which will help both the parties to correct their mistakes and find some common solutions.
If my question is irrelevant, definitely you would not have bothered answering.
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